Important Question about High-Powered Rifles with Mass FID Cards

Discussion in 'Ask A Cop' started by peteyb, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    I live in MA and am an FID card holder. I understand that a high-capacity rifle is one that holds, or is easily modified to hold more than 10 rounds. I have asked several different people this question and have gotten many mixed answers.

    My question is, Is the Hi-Point 995TS Rifle (9mm version) considered a High Capacity Rifle?

    Hi-Point only manufactures a 10-round magazine for this rifle. However, I recently found a 15-round magazine for this rifle, but it is not made by Hi-Point, but is made by a company called ProMag.

    From what I've heard, these magazines do not even work with the rifle, and are unusable, but I doubt that that matters. Because this magazine is made by a different company than the one that makes the rifle, is this still considered a low-capacity rifle. Any input is appreciated, as I have been trying to find out if this rifle is MA FID Card Compliant for weeks, and am yet to find a definite answer.

    Thanks in advance
  2. Hush

    Hush Moderator Staff Member

  3. Eagle13

    Eagle13 Lurking for a bit...

  4. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    thank you for letting me know that the 995TS is considered a high-capacity rifle.

    I realize that the 995 is not the best rifle, however, as you can see I am trying to find a semi-auto rifle (preferablt 9mm) that is Mass FID compliant, and that seemed to be the best rifle that didn't carry more than 10 rounds. If you know a better choice please share, I would appreciate it.

    BTW- I am under 21 so LTC is out of the question for now
  5. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    9mm is a pistol round. If you're hell-bent on a pistol caliber carbine start saving now, wait until you age up and find a nice Uzi or build an AR. Trust me, I had the 995 once and while it was real tricksy looking it really wound up being a disappointment and I eventually sold it.

    As far as a nice FID-compliant rifle, look no further than the SKS.
    [​IMG]
    7.62x39mm, 10 round fixed mag and no evil features to have to worry about. If you can't find a good one for less than $300 you're not looking in the right places.

    And don't go bubba-izing it with stocks and those ghey detachable mags. You'll have feed problems and quite possibly run afoul of the Feds re: 922r compliance. Enjoy the SKS the way God intended.
  6. Bloodhound

    Bloodhound MassCops Member


    Absolutely. I made the mistake of buying one with an aftermarket stock and it was modified for a 30 round mag. All it does is jam, and it wont take the 10 round mag anymore.
  7. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Thanks aton Wolfman for helpin out, that looks like a good, reliable rifle. After searching for a little while, I noticed there are a few different kinds/variances of the SKS Carbine. Which one do you suggest/are you referring to?

    Also, do you have any MA stores to recommend to check if they have this rifle in stock? Or at least some websites I could order from?

    And by the way, I was only trying to find a 9mm carbine because the ammo is among the cheapest I've seen (Winchester White Box Value Pack 100rd). I will be mainly sticking to target shooting at my local range, so I was looking for the most affordable way to feed my rifle.

    Thanks again, and I'll be taking your advice and leaving the rifle stock with no attachments/so-called-upgrades.

    PS - I originally thought this was a bolt-action, but after doing more research I see that it is semi-automatic. If this rifle is a semi and is capable of using aftermarket 20 round and 30 round magazines, wouldn't that make the rifle high-capacity, meaning not mass FID compliant?
  8. Eagle13

    Eagle13 Lurking for a bit...

  9. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    The Chinese (Norinco) is probably the most plentiful and affordable variety and a good place to start as most are good shooters.You'll also see Yugoslavians, Russian, Albanian...more collectable, herder to find and more expensive.
    Great SKS online resource: www.sksboards.com

    Where do you live? Call around some local stores and also check on www.northeastshooters.com to see if any of the folks there might have one for sale. You'll see them listed on Gunbroker.com - this will give you an idea of how much they are currently selling for. If you're thinking on buying one from such a source, bear in mind that (a) you take a risk when you buy a gun sight unseen and (b) any savings you might find online will quickly disappear when you factor in shipping and transfer fees from your local dealer. Remember, you cannot receive a gun directly from an out-of-state seller, it MUST be shipped to a Massachusetts dealer for transfer to you.

    Be sure you do your homework before plunking down the cash.

    Round for round, 7.62x39 is cheaper than 9mm. Looking at the Cabela's website for comparison purposes, the 600 round tin of Wolf x39 is $170, or 28.3 cents per round. The 300 round box of WWB 9mm is $100, or 33.3 cents per round.

    Nope. Certain variants of the SKS (D and M) do accept AK-style detachable magazines and are thus considered large capacity, but a stock SKS with its fixed 10 round mag is not. Word of warning: Should you even acquire an aftermarket large capacity mag for a stock SKS you'll likely be running afoul of regulations concerning the possession of large capacity feeding devices and subject to big trouble in MA.

    ---------- Post added at 23:51 ---------- Previous post was at 23:27 ----------

    ...also...don't fall into the media traps concerning the SKS: It is not a "high-powered rifle". It uses an intermediate 7.62x39 cartridge with a muzzle velocity of around 2,400 fps and a max range of only around 400 yards. Consider the round similar to most .30-30 deer rifles.

    It is not an assault weapon; the SKS is semi-automatic only and has never been manufactured in a select-fire (full auto) configuration - it is not an "assault weapon" even by the bastardized Massachusetts definition either as it has no pistol grip or detachable magazine.

    It is not an AK-variant; the only similarities with the AK are they are both Russian design and use the same cartridge...the SKS was actually developed years before the AK.

    Although you can get scope mounts for them they are not tack drivers and you won't be shooting a one inch group at 250 yards.

    It is not well-suited for home defense.

    It is not well-suited for hunting large game. Coyotes, pack dogs, yes. Bear, moose, elk, no way.

    It is great for plinking at the range, learning about the function of a semiautomatic rifle, developing and honing good shooting habits and skills.

    Is it a military rifle? Yes...some of them anyhow...but most of the Chinese varieties you'll come across were manufactured for the civilian market and exported as "sporter" rifles. Considering the fact that there are many, many consumer firearms out there that are either direct copies of or based on a "military" gun, this is hardly a reason to panic.
  10. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Thanks again Wolfman.

    I've found that the Russian is the most collectable and expensive, like you said, and that the yugo and albanion are also more expensive than the chinese model. So I think I'm going to look for the chinese model (assuming that there are no known problems that are common with this model). I'll take a look at the sites you suggested, but I was hoping to buy the gun new, since not everybody cleans their guns properly after each use, and I'd hate to buy a used rifle that wasnt taken care of properly.

    Thanks for letting me know about the differences in ammo pricing. I never realized that when you break it down the x39 is actually cheaper than 9mm.

    Ok, so what your saying is that the stock SKS is FID Compliant, but the models D and M are not. So what should I be looking for to make sure I do not buy a model that is large-capacity? Do I need to make sure that the rifle has a "fixed" 10 round mag? And sorry if this is dumb but what exactly is a "fixed" mag and how is it different from a standard mag? I have no intention on purchasing a larger mag for the rifle, so from what I understand I should be ok with the fixed 10 round mag that comes stock, correct?

    Sorry that I have so many questions, Im just confused because I always thought that if you were capable of buying any high-cap mag for your rifle, that the rifle is considered high-capacity, and thus not FID-Compliant.

    Thanks again
  11. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    SKS's are very reliable guns and aren't really prone to any problems so long as you give them proper maintenance (cleaning, lubing, etc.) The Yugos have had issues with the grenade launcher gas cutoff but that will not be an issue with a Chinese as they do not have this feature. Most Norincos (Chinese) that you will find will not be the D or M variants; those command a higher price due to their relative scarcity. You will have a hard time finding any of them "new", since importation of the Chinese models has been banned for many years and the European / ComBloc models have all seen use, some more than others. If you actually find an unfired SKS, be prepared to pay top dollar. There are plenty of Chinese SKS's out there in very good condition however, all the more reason to be able to examine the rifle before you buy it.

    Bear in mind the definition of a magazine and the difference between a magazine and the often erroneous use of the term "clip". A magazine is that part of a gun that stores ammunition that is fed into the chamber for firing. A removable magazine, which is frequently (and incorrectly) called a "clip" is a magazine that can be removed from the gun, filled with rounds and stored in a pouch or case until needed. The magazine is then latched into the gun in the gun's magazine well where the rounds are fed into the chamber for firing. Sometimes the magazine well is located in the pistol grip assembly, sometimes it is elsewhere on the gun's receiver. When the magazine is exhausted, it can be quickly dropped from the magazine well and a fresh magazine insterted. AR-15's, AK style guns, and most all semiautomatic pistols use detachable magazines. A fixed magazine is essentially a permanent part of the gun, such as the standard SKS, the M1 Garand and most bolt action guns such as the Mosin-Nagant and Springfield 1903. These magazines are charged with ammunition either by inserting the rounds one at a time by hand or by the use of a clip, which is essentially a strip of metal that holds rounds together so they can be quickly pushed into the magazine.

    The fixed mag in an SKS is just that: it is a fixed part of the receiver assembly and although it is hinged and you can release it to dump unfired ammo, you need to pull the receiver assembly from the stock to remove the magazine entirely. Although there are aftermarket large capacity mags available for the SKS, they were (a) never available from the manufacturer and (b) require disassembly of the rifle in order to install.

    Photo 1: SKS with fixed magazine and stripper clip of ammunition. With the bolt locked back, the clip of ammunition is placed in a guide at the front of the bolt and the rounds pushed down into the magazine with one's thumb. With practice, you can recharge a fixed mag with a stripper clip just as fast as dropping and inserting a removable mag!
    [​IMG]

    Photo 2: SKS-M with AK-style removable magazine. Notice the larger capacity magazine which is released from the gun by use of a latch at the rear of the mag well. The bolts for these variants usually will not have a stripper clip guide built in:
    [​IMG]

    Check here for more information on the different flavors of SKS: SKS Rifle
  12. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Thanks alot wolfman.

    I am going to try to find a local gun shop that may carry the SKS carbine and take a trip down there.

    So what your saying is that as long as the manufacturer of the rifle does not sell the rifle with a hi-cap mag, then the rifle is considered low-capacity, thus being FID Compliant?

    Thank you for clarifying the difference between a clip ang a magazine. I knew the physical difference between an actual magazine and a stripper clip that is fed into the rifle in front of the bolt when the bolt is pulled back, but just never knew the that two terms meant differnt things. I thought that the term clip and magazine meant the same thing, like you said is a common mistake, but I completely understand now. So I will have no problem with the fixed mag since I could not put a hi-cap on it unless I actually take apart the rifle and modify it.

    Hopefully I can try and find a gun store where I can purchase an SKS from. Do you have any suggestions as to any MA gun stores? Trying to avoid the hassle/fees associated with buying a gun online with an FFL dealer.

    Also, I was just told by a reliable source that the Hi-Point 995TS 9mm Carbine is also FID compliant, becuase Hi-Point does not sell the 995 rifle in any of the 50 states with a high capacity rifle. I just wanted to make sure that this was correct, because I'm now thinking of (if I can find somewhere to get them both cheap, or at least one of them cheap) getting both the 995TS and the SKS rifle. Do you have any input as to whther or not you know for a fact the the 995TS is Mass. FID compliant or where to buy either the 995 or the SKS?

    Thanks again, It is much appreciated
  13. Simon

    Simon Guest

    If you live in the Land of Milk and Honey (east of 495) go to Four Seasons. Carl will take excellent care of you. If you live in God's Country, PM Wolfman and he will recommend a good shop.
  14. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    From what I understand the 995 is FID compliant since it does not come with (nor do I believe Beeman / HiPoint even manufacture) a magazine with greater than a 10-round capacity. However your FFL may see things differently, and ultimately the dealer is the one who decides if he is going to sell you the gun. The Ruger 10/22 is FID compliant since Ruger does not manufacture nor offer it with a mag larger than 10 rounds but many dealers will not sell it to FID holders since there are so many aftermarket large capacity mags out there for the platform. Right or wrong, it's the shop's prerogative. Speaking of dealers, I know a few here & there but so far you haven't let on what part of the state you live in, so that makes it sort of tough to recommend one to you. We don't need your GPS coordinates but a local major city would help.

    All things considered, dollar for dollar my opinion is still that the SKS is a much better gun for the money. It is damn fun to shoot at distances of 25 to 250 yards. The ammo is some of the cheapest and most plentiful around. It's not finicky about what kind of ammo you use. Assuming you treat it well, it will never go down in value. The days of the Chinese imports have long since passed, so what's in country is it. They originally sold for $70, now they've gone up to $280 plus, an appreciation of 400%. The Hi Point looks cool but once you've taken it out and shot it a few times the "WOW" factor wears off and you wind up with something that will sit in your safe until you eventually dump it for $50 less than what you paid so you can put the money towards AR parts. Where the SKS is a well-crafted gun with a rich history, the 995 is well, sort of cheap and rudimentary.

    You can put all the cool wings and fart can exhausts you want on a Honda Civic but the Chevelle will still blow its doors off every time.
  15. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Thanks again Wolfman.

    Considering everything you've said I think I'm gonna try and find an SKS Carbine instead of the 995.

    I live in kind of a small town, so I doubt you'd know of it. It is next to Franklin, MA, if you know where that is located (Dean College is located in Franklin,MA). It is about 25 minutes away from Gillete Stadium, or Bass Pro Shop on Route 1. Thanks for all of your help.
  16. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    Sounds like you may be near Zero Hour Arms (Zero Hour Arms) in Easton. I've dealt with them in the past and they are a good bunch of guys. If you're close, stop in and share the discussion with them; they can probably help you out.
  17. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Hey Wolfman,
    Yeah I'm about 40 minutes away from them so I'm gonna take a trip down there tomorrow or the next day and see what they have in stock.
    I'm hoping to get an SKS, fixed 10-mag which you said is 100% FID compliant (since there is no detachable mag, theres no way to put a large capacity mag on there). My only question is, do you have a suggestion on what stripper clips to buy and which ones are the cheapest? I dont mind too much buying x39 rounds and having to feed them in one round at a time, but if stripper clips are not that much more expensive I would rather buy them and not have to insert each bullet into my rifle one at a time.

    Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me, I reallt appreciate it.
  18. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    Don't worry about stripper clips for now. It only takes a minute or so to shove 10 rounds down into the mag when the bolt is back and when starting out with the rifle the more you can do by hand the better your familiarization with its operation will be. Besides, you still have to load the ammo onto the strippers by hand! Further down the line you should be able to find stripper clips online or at a gun show for cheap, like 3 for a buck or so. Here's an example: SKS stripper clips.

    There's really no brands, etc. to look for as they are a fairly rudimentary component. Once you get them you can spend a rainy afternoon loading them all up and sticking them in an ammo can for the next range trip.
  19. peteyb

    peteyb MassCops Member

    Thanks for the link Wolfman.

    Ok I'll take your advice, I should probably load them by hand at the start, like you said to familiarize myself with the rifle. By the way, do you happen to know first hand if Zero Hours Arms in Easton carry or have carried the SKS rifle? Just making sure before I take the trip down there to check it out for myself. I don't mind if I take the trip down there just to find out that they don't carry the rifle, the problem is that I dont have any other local shop to check afterwards in case they don't carry it. This is really the only local store I know of to check, and if they don't carry it I will have to deal with an FFL dealer and order online, which will probably cost me a lot of $$. Thanks again for all the help.
  20. vttroopah

    vttroopah dirtbaggumus maximus


    It's an SKS. You can clean it with shit, blood, beer, pizza, mud, and grape jelly. It will still fire. I own several in different variants (even a 16.5" Norinco M, f*ck MA gunlaws) and they are reliable and a blast to shoot, but like Wolfman said, they ARE NOT tack drivers. Just have fun making noise.

    And petey.... No more freaking questions. Just buy the goddamn rifle and tell us how much fun you have shooting it. Carry on.
  21. Wolfman

    Wolfman "Ultima Ratio Civis" Staff Member

    [​IMG]
    508-584-0291

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