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Does str8tshot52 Have Any Training ?????

  • Yes

    Votes: 8 15.7%
  • NO

    Votes: 11 21.6%
  • Political Hack

    Votes: 38 74.5%
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lawdog671 said:
Small portion of a July 6, 2007 Worcester Telegram and Gazette article....article doesn't help the arguement much huh STR8?? OTTO?...WCSO doesn't actiely patrol anywhere?? WCSO didn't do anything in press about the seizure?? Glodis doesn't support WCSO acting in police capacity??
Are you just joining the game in the 9th inning, lawdog? Yes, the SO assists the US Postal Inspection Service with sweeps. At the request of the US Postal Inspection Service, one K-9 unit does a sweep of packages...I don't know how often. The accusation is that the SO does motor vehicle patrols, making chap 90 stops, and that's not true.

lawdog671 said:
If you're going to come out and claim they are all well trained answer the basic questions that TRAINED police are asking you. What is the basic standard level of training to become a D/S, and are they all so qualified?
I suppose I can find out for you, since you're so concerned. In my dealings with them, I haven't asked for their resume.

lawdog671 said:
Again, if there were space at the jail, your detainee would be there. I WOULD expect you to understand that.
I recall sitting in central control on many occasions where there were 7 or 8 cells aptly called "county lockup" that were empty and yet local PDs were told we had no space available...When every cell and floor spot is full...then you're full...
We can't, by law, use those cells for two reasons...one, no natural light. And two, they are manual release doors only, and because of fire or emergency evacuation concerns, doors must be both electronic and manual release. But, since you worked in central control, you already knew that.

lawdog671 said:
Before you tell me that there are things called civil lawsuits and prisoners have rights.....when CONS sue.....don't just bend over and take it...fight it..
It is AMAZING to me how much you guys think you know, and you really, really don't. You simply assume the WCSO let's lawsuits happen...how'd you come to that conclusion, exactly? It is a baseless, mindless assumption, and nothing more. A tremendous amount of time and energy goes into litigation, but the best way to beat lawsuits is to avoid them altogether.

lawdog671 said:
.fight for money to expand the JAIL and not your authority....THIS is why Glodis catches a public paycheck....TO FIX THESE PROBLEMS...
Again, you simply assume that the SO doesn't fight for money. I've already explained in an earlier post ALL of the things the SO has done to try to get money, and the difficult in getting it when the Governor shuts the door on it...and since I don't need SinePari complaining about my repetition, ad nauseum, I won't repeat it.

lawdog671 said:
Cant help but notice that those so adamantly fighting here in defense of WCSO are oddly quiet in the thread regarding wrongful release of that felon....
What's there to say....someone made a mistake. There's no defense for mistakes, they shouldn't happen. And I'm sure the person responsible for that mistake knows full well the repercussions of it. Maybe you'd like to contact that person directly and berate them...would that make you feel better?

lawdog671 said:
STR8 YET AGAIN YOU DODGED A QUESTION I ASKED DIRECTLY.....ARE YOU SO OVERSTAFFED/ADEQUATELY STAFFED THERE THAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LET ANY STAFF OUT OF JAIL TO DO THESE THINGS??
Do you just skip my posts and go straight to writing another one? I know I get accused of repeating myself, so I'll try not to. By "so overstaffed", you're talking about two officers, at the most, at any given time.....if they aren't called out, they are at the jail. If you can't find ANYTHING else to complain about, which I find hard to believe, then two officers who MIGHT be off campus every now and then, then I'd say we're doing pretty good.
 
On the issue of grants the SO can apply and get them because they can claim that they represent multiple cities and towns within the county.

A single PD is usually not elligable on there own for a grant, say for an EM50, but if they are part of say of a task force, or regional team, then that opens the door.

The one question that I have for the WSO or should be being asked on this site is that most of the grants for something as big and expensive as a mobil command center requires matching funds, in other words most of these grants require the requesting agency to pony up half the amount.

If money is as tight as they or some claim where did the rest of the money come from?

As far as K9s go, again money is usually the deciding factor as to why a department has or does not have them. And like the command centers, (EM50s), the purchase cost hurts the upkeep kills.

If I was a police chief in this or any state the first person I would hire is a first rate grant writer. Bash the sheriffs but in some areas they know how to get grants.

Should they just get them for jails and inmates? No argument there that should be the first and foremost priority. But until the legistlature truly defines what a SO can and cannot due, this situation will just continue until unfortunately someone(s) get hurt or killed.
 
Deuce said:
Umm thanks for the nod. But actually we do have a "mobile command center". It's that white elephant parked by the cellroom sallyport. It's nice, has some nifty chairs, a microwave and an erasable board. Oh, and I think a radio. Keeps the negotiators nice and comfy. I'm not sure if it has all the super cool hitech gizmo's like the SD's though. We on the SWAT team do not use it. We'd probably just break it, or kick all the REMF's out and use it to rack out in anyway..
Deuce, that response didn't come out of nowhere. I was responding to the following question posed to me from str8hack.

str8tshot52 said:
Here's another one for you: if Worcester Police were given the vehicle (purely hypothetical), would you also be on here questioning the need for it?
I guess my reply was too too blunt for str8hack? He still hasn't replied to my post.
 
resqjyw0 said:
And to make things very god damn clear, you bet your fucking ass I wouldn't question the Worcester Police having a mobile command center. They are the second largest city in New England. They are a legitimate POLICE agency. It would help them do THEIR job better. If you named any other police department, my response would be the same (minus the second largest city in NE).
Of course you would, because you wouldn't even think about it. Try this on for size: jurisdiction- a MCC in ONE city or town would face jurisdiction issues responding to other cities and town in worcester county. Availability- the MCC belongs to ONE city or town, and is used at their discretion, and their discretion alone. By your reasoning, there should be 60 MCC's in worcester county. Now THAT's efficiency! Our MCC BELONGS to 60 cities and towns, and is used at ANY chiefs discretion. Because we are the Worcester County SO, there are no jurisdiction issues. You want police to run the show, you want police to have discretion about how and when its used? Guess what....THEY DO. Your only complaint is the wrong patch on the sleeve...and you've got NOTHING else. Not enough training? Not true. Doing police work? Not true. Besides the color of the patch, what else do you have to complain about?

Deuce said:
What I am curious about though is how much did the SD's MCC cost? And instead of going to the WCSD, could all that grant money have gone to us? To backtrack on the critical response time issue, instead of buying that MCC, maybe the monies could have been used for take home cruisers w/ gun lockers for us on the team. Hence quicker response times to critical incidents..
To answer your question, I think it was about $500,000, though I couldn't say for sure. And no, it could not have gone to any municipal department. The federal grant was sponsored by the Department of Homeland Security, with the sole intention of putting in place a mobile regional interoperability resource, under the umbrella of preparation for a terrorist attack. The guidelines were very specific, and very clear: a mobile command center, on call 24 hours a day, used at the discretion of any chief within the region, housed, fueled, maintained and operated by a regional agency.
deuce said:
Now, not to piss on your boots, just speaking as a "street cop"; don't you guys @ WCSD think the locals/state should get the DHS policing grant monies you guys get? That way we can do our jobs more effectively? And you guys do what you're supposed to do?
[/quote]Just as a clarification, the WCSO received a single grant, for the mobile command center, at the request of the Central MA Chiefs of Police and Central MA Fire Chiefs. State and local PD's were excluded from eligibility, as the grant was specifically focused on regional agencies. This wasn't a policing grant, only for the mobile command center. Either Central MA got one, or it didn't...it was just that simple. I hope that helps answer your question.
 
str8tshot52 said:
Try this on for size: jurisdiction- a MCC in ONE city or town would face jurisdiction issues responding to other cities and town in worcester county...Because we are the Worcester County SO, there are no jurisdiction issues.
Jurisdiction issues? Try this one: MGL C.40 S.8G

I'll even provide you with the link. http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/40-8g.htm

str8tshot52 said:
Availability- the MCC belongs to ONE city or town, and is used at their discretion, and their discretion alone...Our MCC BELONGS to 60 cities and towns, and is used at ANY chiefs discretion.
Ok. So you can't refuse when a chief requests it? Great. If any PD had a mobile command center and it was available while another agency requested it, do you think they would refuse to use it if they could?

Oh and I love how you just danced around the last part of my post that was actually relevant to the issue at hand. You decide to go after the part of the response that has the least relevance to this thread (answering your stupid question).

Belongs to 60 cities and towns you say? Where does it say those 60 cities and towns on the friggin thing?

 
resqjyw0 said:
Jurisdiction issues? Try this one: MGL C.40 S.8G

I'll even provide you with the link. http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/40-8g.htm

Ok. So you can't refuse when a chief requests it? Great. If any PD had a mobile command center and it was available while another agency requested it, do you think they would refuse to use it if they could?

Oh and I love how you just danced around the last part of my post that was actually relevant to the issue at hand. You decide to go after the part of the response that has the least relevance to this thread (answering your stupid question).

Belongs to 60 cities and towns you say? Where does it say those 60 cities and towns on the friggin thing?

Good points to regulate the sheriffs back inside the walls.

Now according to the law do all these cities and towns in Worcester have mutual aid agreements? If they have and form a collaborative they too can qualify for grants for equipment like that.

That is usually the key in getting grants like that everyone has to be on board and usually a matching amount of money, say the EM50 above cost $500.00.00 the grant kicks in $250.00.00 and the collaborative kicks in the rest. Upkeep, fuel and upgrades fall on the collaborative.

If everyone gets on board you nullify the claim of the sheriff that he alone can provide universal assistance. Also keep in mind that liability plays a major part in any city, town, or PD rendering assistance in all but extreme circumstances.
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If I was a police chief in this or any state the first person I would hire is a first rate grant writer. Bash the sheriffs but in some areas they know how to get grants.
It has nothing to do with good grant writers. The Chiefs can hire the best grant writers in the country, the problem is that these huge $$$ grants are given to large multi jurisdictional agencies and the sheriffs know how to lie to get them. The Sheriff lies about what they do and get all these toys from the feds.My understanding is that the feds now know about this and are going to put an end to the larcenies.
 
j809 said:
It has nothing to do with good grant writers. The Chiefs can hire the best grant writers in the country, the problem is that these huge $$$ grants are given to large multi jurisdictional agencies and the sheriffs know how to lie to get them. The Sheriff lies about what they do and get all these toys from the feds.My understanding is that the feds now know about this and are going to put an end to the larcenies.
I beg to differ good grant writers are worth their weight in gold,my little town PD and FD has well benifited from good grant writing.
New equipment from federal grants for both. If you don't write for everything that is avaible you will never get anything.
One grant for a new firetruck well over the amount for the sheriffs play toy truck and
it is not for a multi jurisdictional agency just a small town.
 
Discussion starter · #389 ·
resqjyw0 said:
Belongs to 60 cities and towns you say? Where does it say those 60 cities and towns on the friggin thing?
The only name you will ever see on the EM50 is Guy W. Glodis, like the rest of the sheriff vehicles. These are campaign bumber sticker bought and paid for by the taxpayers.:rolleyes:
 
Time to merge the sheriffs with Dept. of corrections. Take the political questions out of the equation. Merge Sheriffs with CO's, make it just like any other county entity, non-existent. Where do sheriffs get the majority of their funding from, us the taxpayers of the counties and from STATE funds. Sheriffs then can transfer over to a state job and we can stop their political games. Stop the madness. MERGE the sheriffs with DoC.​
 
kwflatbed said:
I beg to differ good grant writers are worth their weight in gold,my little town PD and FD has well benifited from good grant writing.
New equipment from federal grants for both. If you don't write for everything that is avaible you will never get anything.
One grant for a new firetruck well over the amount for the sheriffs play toy truck and
it is not for a multi jurisdictional agency just a small town.
I believe what j809's point is that there are/were federal grants specifically for sheriff's departments that actually do patrol and law enforcement such as LASD, Broward County FL, etc., and some of the hacks here jumped on-board and lied to the feds about their role in the criminal justice system in Massachusetts. No matter how good a grant writer a city/town has, they can't get something earmarked for a county agency.

It's much like how New Hampshire saw certain grants specifically for "state highway patrols" so they created one in addition to the state police. I don't think any reasonable person thinks a state needs both a highway patrol and a state police, since in every state the functions are almost the same.

PBC FL Cop said:
The only name you will ever see on the EM50 is Guy W. Glodis, like the rest of the sheriff vehicles. These are campaign bumber sticker bought and paid for by the taxpayers.:rolleyes:
Very well stated.
 
Delta784 said:
I believe what j809's point is that there are/were federal grants specifically for sheriff's departments that actually do patrol and law enforcement such as LASD, Broward County FL, etc., and some of the hacks here jumped on-board and lied to the feds about their role in the criminal justice system in Massachusetts. No matter how good a grant writer a city/town has, they can't get something earmarked for a county agency.

Very well stated.
That's exactly what I meant Delta, thank you. As a small agency we get around $7500 for click it or ticket and around $30K for community policing money. The big grants are given to large agencies, such as MSP, but the Sheriffs lie about what they do and on PAPER only they qualify. What they fail to admit is that they do not serve or patrol any community in their county. What many PDs have been doing is getting regionalized and getting large $$ of grants through NEMLEC,METLEC ,etc.
 
PBC FL Cop said:
The only name you will ever see on the EM50 is Guy W. Glodis, like the rest of the sheriff vehicles. These are campaign bumber sticker bought and paid for by the taxpayers.:rolleyes:
I'm not sure if resq wants all 60 cities and towns LISTED on the side of the vehicle, is that what he's looking for?

Actually, the logo's of both the Central MA Chiefs of Police and CEMLEC are on the back of the vehicle.

j809 said:
The big grants are given to large agencies, such as MSP, but the Sheriffs lie about what they do and on PAPER only they qualify. What they fail to admit is that they do not serve or patrol any community in their county. What many PDs have been doing is getting regionalized and getting large $$ of grants through NEMLEC,METLEC ,etc.
What, exactly, did the SO lie about...since you seem to know. It wasn't on PAPER that only regional agencies qualify...it was set BY the DHS, as a guideline for the funding.

Simple answers to specific questions:

1. Can you make vehicle available 24 hours a day? Yes.
2. Will the Police and Fire chiefs in your area have total call out and command powers? Yes.
3. Can you house, fuel, maintain and staff the vehicle? Yes.
4. As a regional agency, are you bound or limited by jurisdiction boundaries within your area? No.

And, since the SO does NOT serve in any police capacity, before, during or after the vehicle is in use...what is there to lie about?

Since you brought up the regionalization of local PD's, CEMLEC was a very vocal advocate for the success of this grant.
 
str8tshot52 said:
Actually, the logo's of both the Central MA Chiefs of Police and CEMLEC are on the back of the vehicle.
GOOD!!!

Then let CEMLEC take control of it!!!!
:cool:
WCSD doesn't qualify out side the walls so stay there!
 
PBC FL Cop said:
The only name you will ever see on the EM50 is Guy W. Glodis, like the rest of the sheriff vehicles. These are campaign bumber sticker bought and paid for by the taxpayers.:rolleyes:
Someone should drop a dime and make a big stink with the State Ethics Commission.
 
kwflatbed said:
I beg to differ good grant writers are worth their weight in gold,my little town PD and FD has well benifited from good grant writing.
New equipment from federal grants for both. If you don't write for everything that is avaible you will never get anything.
One grant for a new firetruck well over the amount for the sheriffs play toy truck and
it is not for a multi jurisdictional agency just a small town.
Sounds like the voice of experience. Everything else aside a good grant writer is worth their weight in gold.

It is not enough to write the grant but know where the grant is to go after.

The problems usually fall into the $$$ category, an average size PD just cannot afford many of the items that an agency with a good grant writer can.

Getting a K9 for example usually runs say between $3,000.00 - $4,500.00. Now add training, upkeep, a kennel, a vehicle.

God only knows how much an EM50 costs initially, now add fuel, maintenance, upgrades, and the training of people to operate it.

Could CEMLEC absorb that type of cost of the EM50? If the answer is "yes", go for the grant and minimize the WSO and all the other sheriffs working outside the walls.

Can the SP respond to a major incident? Absolutely! But several at the same time, no.

Before anybody slams the sheriffs thank them for one thing, by sticking their influence outside the walls they have forced the hand of individual departments to get together with regional teams like cemlec and mutual aid agreements.
 
str8tshot52 said:
I'm not sure if resq wants all 60 cities and towns LISTED on the side of the vehicle, is that what he's looking for?
Well you said it was owned by 60 cities and towns...where are their names? When a grant is given to the WCSO to pay for it and I see WCSO on the side of the vehicle, I think it is safe to assume that its owned and operated by the WCSO.

mpd61 said:
GOOD!!!

Then let CEMLEC take control of it!!!!
:cool:
WCSD doesn't qualify out side the walls so stay there!
Exactly!!

PBC FL Cop said:
The only name you will ever see on the EM50 is Guy W. Glodis, like the rest of the sheriff vehicles. These are campaign bumber sticker bought and paid for by the taxpayers.:rolleyes:
Very true.
 
str8tshot52 said:
Simple answers to specific questions:

1. Can you make vehicle available 24 hours a day? Yes.
2. Will the Police and Fire chiefs in your area have total call out and command powers? Yes.
3. Can you house, fuel, maintain and staff the vehicle? Yes.
4. As a regional agency, are you bound or limited by jurisdiction boundaries within your area? No.
Simple answers to OUR specific questions to str8t-jacket:

1. Do you have any law enforcement training? No.
2. Do you have any corrections training? No.
3. Have you been GG's business partner/life-long friend/senate staff member? Yes.

You've side-stepped this question a billion times in favor of talking points for community policing meetings. Any other member who gets called out AT LEAST has the cobbles to say "I've got X training or X number of years under my belt, kid". But not you. It DOES make a difference to members of the LE community. Not an MBA degree holder who thinks he can run a major department in the criminal justice field.

I can't say it any more clearly. Since your people do not go through a standard hiring/training/promotion process that is also fair and transparent, the SOs in this state cannot get any praise for all the "good" things you claim to be doing. Why tout all these things when nobody (except a few central MA chiefs, apparently) applauds them? And these chiefs, by the way, are USING you for $$$, not your ability to help reduce crime.

And yes, it IS simply because the patch you wear on your sleeve. If you want to be like every other SO in the country, follow their model and hire/train/promote like them. Instead some people are LAUGHING at you, while others continue to write checks in hope of landing some cushy ghost job with full bennies.
 
mpd61 said:
GOOD!!!

Then let CEMLEC take control of it!!!!
:cool:
WCSD doesn't qualify out side the walls so stay there!
As I've said a thousand times, CEMLEC has full use of the vehicle ANY time they want it....and they HAVE used it, many times.

You and resq have been general, and I've been specific in my responses. I've explained that the SO has no police duties in operating the vehicle, I've explained what role the SO plays when the vehicle is called out. Having heard that, and let it sink in REAL good, how exactly is it that the SO "doesn't qualify" to operate the MCC?

And no more sweeping generalizations like "not in the job description". Be specific: even though we fulfill no police duties, even though the ONE officer staffing the vehicle IS fully trained to operate it...how EXACTLY is the SO "not qualified"?
 
It's gone from frustrating to amusing to watch str8dolt completely and totally ignore legitimate questions concerning his training & ability. Or, lack thereof.

Dude....cut your losses, and move on.
 
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