# what are your thoughts on pardons?



## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

should they be granted for people who have completely turned their life around and have a compelling need or never at all? i have read quite a few threads here over the last few nights and almost peed myself laughing on a lot of them. i totaly expect to be flamed, bashed and called every name in the book for asking this question here but am just curious, do you guys really believe that a kid or very young adult that skrewed up a few times before growing up is a looser for life. when i was 19 and 20 i got charged with a&b once, disturbing the peace once, unregistered/uninsured/suspended once and unfortunately, b&e once. the b&e should have been receiving stolen property but a shitty public defender said that with a 50/50 shot at trial, i should just take a plee for a suspended sentence. after finishing probation and paying all of my fines i made it a point to grow up and turn my life in the right direction. in the twentyone years since, i have not had so much as a speeding ticket, have always worked between 50 and 60 hours a week, got married, bought a house, raised 2 kids and 3 step kids. raised them to be respectful, honest kids. two now work full time, one is in college, the other two are in high school, class officers, national honors and both play sports. none have gotten into any trouble. three years ago i donated one of my kiddneys to save my mother in laws life. all was a great success and after all was said and done, i made the decision that i would like to go back to school for nursing so that i could make a possitive difference in peoples lives. right now i have the opportunity to quit work, cash in my 401k to live off of and go back to school full time to get a ba in nursing, maybe continue to ma with a major in nurse anesthetist. the problem is... i can't become a nurse with the record that i have. i have never forgotten what i have done and will live the rest of my life with remembering what a douche i was, but that person does not even exist anymore. i think a pardon would be the only way that i could become a nurse, what better way to pay back society for my past douchebaggery. well....now, what do you guys think....


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

this thread is useless without pics.


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

No, I don't think you should be "pardoned", although I think the term you are looking for is to have your record expunged.

From Wikipedia:

*Pardon:*
A pardon is the forgiveness of a crime and the penalty associated with it. It is granted by a head of state, such as a monarch or president, or by a competent church authority. Clemency is an associated term, meaning the lessening of the penalty of the crime without forgiving the crime itself. The act of clemency is a reprieve. Today, pardons and reprieves are granted in many countries when individuals have demonstrated that they have fulfilled their debt to society, or are otherwise deserving (in the opinion of the pardoning official) of a pardon or reprieve. Pardons are sometimes offered to persons who claim they have been wrongfully convicted. Some believe accepting such a pardon implicitly constitutes an admission of guilt, so in some cases the offer is refused (cases of wrongful conviction are nowadays more often dealt with by appeal than by pardon).

*Expunge:*
In the common law legal system, an expungement proceeding is a type of lawsuit in which the subject of a prior criminal investigation or proceeding seeks that the records of that earlier process be sealed or destroyed, thereby restoring the subject's name. If successful, the records are said to be "expunged". Black's Law Dictionary defines "expungement of record" as the "Process by which record of criminal conviction is destroyed or sealed after the expiration of time."[1] While expungement deals with an underlying criminal record, it is a civil action in which the subject is the petitioner or plaintiff asking a court to declare that the records be expunged.
A very real distinction exists between an expungement and a pardon. When an expungement is granted, the person whose record is expunged may, for most purposes, treat the event as if it never occurred. A pardon (also called "executive clemency"), on the other hand, does not "erase" the event. Rather, it constitutes forgiveness. In the United States, an expungement can be granted only by a judge, while a pardon can be granted only by a governor (for state law offenses) or the President (for federal offenses).
Each jurisdiction whose law allows expungement has its own definitions of expungement proceedings. Generally, expungement is the process to "remove from general review" the records pertaining to a case. In many jurisdictions, however, the records may not completely "disappear" and may still be available to law enforcement, to sentencing judges on subsequent offenses, and to corrections facilities to which the individual may be sentenced on subsequent convictions.

You committed those offenses in the past, and whatever accomplishments you have made since then doesn't erase the past.

P.S. Capitalization, punctuation and spellcheck are your friend.


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

I think I can live without the pics, they never said they were female. I do like the screen name though. IMO, it depends on what it on the "record" not so much as that someone has one. I know a couple of people that have been denied jobs based on thier past and they too are not the same people they were back then. However at the same time if you have something serious then too bad you made your choice way back when and now you have to deal with the consequenses. I am not saying this is your case just my IMO


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## BLUE BLOOD (Aug 31, 2008)

The only pardons for convicted murderes should be , pardon me for a second while I flip the switch to the chair!


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

From what i understand, Mass does not expunge records. I don't believe sealing the record would do, the licensing agency as well as healthcare employers can look into a sealed record if you will be working with children or seniors.....by the way, I doubt that you really want to see pictures of a short, balding, 40 year old DUDE....sorry


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

bamasux said:


> in the twentyone years since, i have not had so much as a speeding ticket, have always worked between 50 and 60 hours a week, got married, bought a house, *raised 2 kids and 3 step kids. raised them to be respectful, honest kids.* two now work full time, one is in college, the other two are in high school, class officers, national honors and both play sports. none have gotten into any trouble. three years ago i donated one of my kidneys to save my mother in laws life. all was a great success and after all was said and done, i made the decision that i would like to go back to school for nursing so that i could make a possitive difference in peoples lives.


Sounds like you've already made a positive difference in people's lives. Many people without a record haven't achieved what you have. I've no idea what type of future success you have in mind, but why not hold on to your 401K, take some classes in social working and try a non-profit agency where most people can't afford to work.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

bamasux said:


> when i was 19 and 20 i got charged with a&b once, disturbing the peace once, unregistered/uninsured/suspended once and unfortunately, b&e once.


I've seen Catholic nuns with worse BOP's than this.

Personally, I think the B&E will be the only bone of contention, and may be worth consulting with a lawyer to see if an expungement is a possibility. You certainly have nothing to loose.

Plus, I can't imagine that considering how much need for nursing there's going to be over the next few years that 20 year-old charges would be such a huge bar to employment considering what you've done since. Monster grades would certainly be a big help.


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

just out of curiosity.....You only got caught ONCE for a lot of different things. How many times did you get away with criminal acts?


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## BLUE BLOOD (Aug 31, 2008)

trueblue said:


> just out of curiosity.....You only got caught ONCE for a lot of different things. How many times did you get away with criminal acts?


Good point TB!


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## Eagle13 (Jun 12, 2008)

Write the good ole Governor.


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

TRUEBLUE....I did drive around illegaly for quite a while before i got caught...As for the other stuff, the A&B was a pretty nasty brawl with a dickhead neighbor. He lost (bad) , lied to the cops and the judge, i got convicted. Disturbing the peace....well, i was with a bunch of friends, got a little too roudy. When the cops came to tell us to quiet down, one of the guys we were with got all dickheadish and we all got bagged. The B&E, i bought stolen stuff from a douche in the neighborhood. Cops came to my door one night looking for stolen stuff. Got arrested, saw douche at the P.D. We were both charged with B&E and he wouldn't own up. Took some lumps on that one. I made some seriously stupid choices that year and then smartened up. One year out of 40 has really screwed me. My own fault though.


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## Dazy5 (Jan 25, 2008)

I believe the responses to the other ask a cop threads regarding criminal records are more to do with trying to get careers in LE. Noone ever said those people are failures. More like they have very little chance to get hired in that particular field. 

Anyways, I'm glad you succeeded in life.


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## BLUE BLOOD (Aug 31, 2008)

After reading your reply asswipe, its obvious you have not smartened up! The victim was a dickhead, your friends got too rowdy not you of course and you bought stolen stuff from a douche. Everyone else is at fault, not you and your victim was a dick so he deserved it, and lost of course because your such a fucking badass. Go cry someplace else pussy, your record, well you obviously deserve it. Oh by the way have a problem with this post, go fuck yourself.


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## rg1283 (Sep 14, 2005)

Technically he could apply and get into nursing school. The issue would be being allowed to go to clinical sites (when Student Nurses go to the Nursing Home or Hospital and take care of patients).

The colleges all run criminal background checks. I have heard of students being arrested for minor things during spring break and the issue being resolved.

The best thing to do would be to talk to the Dean of Nursing or the Director of Nurses at the program you want to go to. I think mainly they are looking for violent crimes and drug issues. Given your age and current situation you maybe okay in that respect.

Lets say your graduate nursing school complete your boards and have LPN (Yes LPNs are real nurses, I can do everything an RN can do but IV push and admission assessments) or RN after your name. Now comes job time, they will see you have a record and most likely pass over you. Too much liability. Especially when they can easily hire someone without a record. That is the truth of the matter.

I am not familiar on expunging or sealing records. I read somewhere that if you "seal" your record. Its basically showing that you have something to hide.

Nursing is not something you do for the money, I can tell your truly interested in it. There is a strong demand for nurses right now. Nurse's are mainly needed at the bedside. I plan on staying at the bedside when I finish school (In Psych and Geriatric). 

Until: A. Get laid off due to huge medicare cuts due to Obama's plan. (Most patients in the hospital/nursing home are elderly VERY sick and use Medicare since they are there for months if not years). 

B. Can't physically do it anymore. 

Like Police work. If your dream is to get a job at a "hospital like you see on TV" you will most likely have to move down South or out west to get a job like that. There are too many well educated experienced nurses out there. 

Dealing with anesthesia is tough stuff. I would never want to do that. 

Yes there is an increase in the need for nursing. Problem is (like Paramedics) Nurses are struggling to be recognized by the public as professionals. Mainly due to TV making fun of or down playing nurses. Who did you see more of last time you were at the hospital or nursing home. Nurses of course. 

My job as a nurse is to take all that crap the Doctor does, formulate a plan and treat the response to the illness (pain, working to schedule consults with Physical Therapy, other specialists, etc. etc. providing support). Yeah its gets crappy sometimes. You learn to be thankful that you can go to the bathroom on your own. Imagine not being able to move. 

I would want a proactive nurse taking care of my loved ones. I can't stand half-ass nurses who are in it for just the money. It really isn't that much money considering the liability and responsibility you have. Its enough to live okay off of. 

One thing good about nursing is that you meet patients who are from all walks of life. From the losers you can't stand on the street all the way up to you name it. 

At the same time Obama is trying to mess with Medicare the very system that takes care of people (Retired Police Officers as an example) who need skilled nursing care (IVs, etc. etc.) or need home care (which I agree with and would love to do) or nursing home care.

Simply put only the very sick end up in nursing homes. A majority of people stay at home or in assisted living (expensive glorified hotel, but if you worked for 40 years you deserved it!).
People on Medicare for the most part need it. Unlike Medicaid.

Take Obie's advice and consult an attorney on that. It all depends what type of nursing you want to do. I am happy dealing with Skitzos (it fascinates me) and working with the elderly. A lot of stuff can go wrong in a nursing home with a patient in as little as 8 hours. General Hospitals don't interest me.

It is sad at times. But I love what I do as an aide and a student nurse. 

Nursing School is tough too. I am halfway through my first semester. I have backgrounds in pharmacy and another degree in the mental health field. Its a lot of work. Be prepared to make it your life. All you do is study. But its worth it to feel confident when you go into a patient's room and know what to do and what to look for.


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

Thanks for the replies so far. I thought i was gonna get hammered here. I'm not some putz just trying to get over on the system and "erase" the bad stuff that i did. I've lived with it on my record this long. The thing is...after the donation, the care that both me and my mother in law received hit me like a ton of bricks. I want to do the same for others....*basides, din Bama promiss meez some kinda hopey/changey shit, well i hopy i can change mah career:NO:*


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

I luv the AAC thread....


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

BLUE BLOOD..the fight was exactly that, a fight. Mutual. We had fought about 4 or 5 times since 7th grade. A couple of times he got the best of me. I took my beating, went home and licked my wounds. This time i got the better of him, he called the cops, lied and pressed charges. And I never said I wasn't getting roudy, I was, we all were. I was ready to stfu and walk away when one guy got rude and mouthy and we all got bagged for it. B&E, take it or leave it, no reason to lie, I broke the law and got charged. Wrong charge, thats all. Just trying to give a little back ground.


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## BLUE BLOOD (Aug 31, 2008)

Don't know why I am even replying, every boot/rookie out here with a few years on the job can read you. I have 13 years on the job, don't insult me with you soft shoe bullshit! The warm and fuzzies out here might bite but any credible police officer knows who and what you are after your response was given. I'm done.


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

the other replies were from people that are not credible? hone your skills cause your reading this one wrong....sorry the streets make you so cynical of everyone.........1/2 full, pal


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## BLUE BLOOD (Aug 31, 2008)

Great asshole, just proved my point even more. Most replied before you let us know who you are. Problem not your bop but your response to TB, Oh ya thats right its my fault your an ass PAL, because us cops are cynical and the glass is always half full. Ya with dicks like you we are and the glass is.


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

OK obviously you're one of them know it all, high and mighty, my badge is my only identity, i can be a douche anonamously on line types. thank god the other 99% of cops have a clue, grow up.Too bad you don't have as much class as you do ego. By the way, you kiss your mother with that mouth of yours?


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

sorry jaycee, won't happen again.


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## Nuke_TRT (Feb 10, 2008)

Jaycee, I justed finished getting the popcorn.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Some one who actually saves their mother-in-law should be getting sainthood, never mind a pardon. You wanted opinions, here is mine; While most of the people that I had arrested, I probably wouldn't piss on, you sound like you've done pretty good in your adult life. I guess if I knew that your claims were true and if I had the power to do it, I would probably try to eliminate your record for you. That's just my opinion. Understand that I am
not by any means a warm and fuzzy person, so coming from me, it's an exception, not the rule. I normally have very little faith in people's ability to change. I have seen it once or twice, but it is very rare IMO. I wish you luck, and I hope that you find a way to achieve your goal


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## Varanus224 (Jun 13, 2006)

Thats it for a record?

If whats your saying is true ever consider the old Dear Dean, I got drunk and made the following bad choices, Ive since grown.

And as for sealing your record. Im pretty sure licensing agencies can see the sealed case


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

*Roll Tide Roll.....*


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## Endo (Mar 29, 2009)

Blue Blood, I have a different spin. I would suggest that people can change and should be given the chance to do so. That does not meant they should not fulfill their punishment that just means that once they have paid for their crime completely, they should be given a certain amount of slack based on their crime to try and rehab and the further they get from their past, the more ground they should make up on getting back to a normal life. Your jaded view on people is part of the problem not the solution. You should always try to be part of the solution in life. SOmetimes its harder but its much more rewarding. I grew up with a kid who shot and killed someone when we were about 20 (I was not there, infact we were not even friends. Our families were friends but we never hung out). He was released from prison after 15 years and in the 2 years since, he can not find a job that provides enough income for him to survive. That's a problem in my opinion. The court decided his punishment was 15 years. He committed the crime and fulfilled the punishment. He should be back at square one right? Unfortunately its only a matter of time until he is rearrested for trying to "hustle" for cash because NO ONE will hire him based on his past. I am not blaming the system when he gets rearrested at some point. It will be his choice and he should be punished. I'm just making a point that your mentality is that of a simplton with an elitist mentality.

FYI, I am pro death penalty, I think this state is the best place to commit crime because they never punish justly and I want to throw up when this state treats offenders as victims but once the crime is paid for, another chance should be given.

When you buy diner and pay the bill, that's it, transaction over. As stiff as I believe punishments should be, once its paid you should start at zero, not in the red.


BTW, I don't think 15 years is enough for taking someones life but the court said that was enough and he paid the 15 years. Its not his fault he should have been locked up longer but wasn't.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Pardon me, but...


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Jaycee said:


> i liked these commercials!


I love this mustard


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

Endo said:


> Blue Blood, I have a different spin. I would suggest that people can change and should be given the chance to do so. That does not meant they should not fulfill their punishment that just means that once they have paid for their crime completely, they should be given a certain amount of slack based on their crime to try and rehab and the further they get from their past, the more ground they should make up on getting back to a normal life. Your jaded view on people is part of the problem not the solution. You should always try to be part of the solution in life. SOmetimes its harder but its much more rewarding. I grew up with a kid who shot and killed someone when we were about 20 (I was not there, infact we were not even friends. Our families were friends but we never hung out). He was released from prison after 15 years and in the 2 years since, he can not find a job that provides enough income for him to survive. That's a problem in my opinion. The court decided his punishment was 15 years. He committed the crime and fulfilled the punishment. He should be back at square one right? Unfortunately its only a matter of time until he is rearrested for trying to "hustle" for cash because NO ONE will hire him based on his past. I am not blaming the system when he gets rearrested at some point. It will be his choice and he should be punished. I'm just making a point that your mentality is that of a simplton with an elitist mentality.
> 
> FYI, I am pro death penalty, I think this state is the best place to commit crime because they never punish justly and I want to throw up when this state treats offenders as victims but once the crime is paid for, another chance should be given.
> 
> ...


 
You think you do the time and your debt's paid for huh? Your friend can't get a job huh?

Last I checked, being dead is a permanent sentence. The person your bud killed can't get a job either... EVER... Not in the red, EVER....

Is your bud going to be a recidivist? Probably. The majority of rottens that do time will. You said it yourself, it takes a lot to get sentenced to jail in this state. So if someone goes away, they've been a societal shitbag for most of their lives and finally got what they deserved..

Do some deserve a second chance? Maybe. I guess that depends on the crime. Frankly I think the debt to society should last as long as the victim suffers (physically and emotionally).

I think your attitude is one of those nieve, ignorant uber-libs that are demanding CORI reform.. Careful what you wish for...


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## Sentinel (Sep 29, 2009)

Endo said:


> I grew up with a kid who shot and killed someone when we were about 20 (I was not there, infact we were not even friends. Our families were friends but we never hung out). He was released from prison after 15 years and in the 2 years since, he can not find a job that provides enough income for him to survive. That's a problem in my opinion. The court decided his punishment was 15 years.


Dude seriously? He did 15 years for MURDER and the poor thing can't get a decent job? You mean there isn't a big job market out there for MURDERERS?

The courts are a joke, so is your reasoning on this.


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

The original posters question was this


> *what are your thoughts on pardons?*


 Heres my thought, do the crime do the time!!. Isnt " endo " a slang term for pot...hmmmmm smells like weed in here.


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## Sentinel (Sep 29, 2009)

Seems it is, I thought it was one of those bike trick thingies. Gots to get my street slang up to speed yo!

Endo:


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

Sentinel said:


> Dude seriously? He did 15 years for MURDER and the poor thing can't get a decent job? You mean there isn't a big job market out there for MURDERERS?
> 
> The courts are a joke, so is your reasoning on this.


That's a double edged sword though. If the courts determine that a certain amount of time is sufficient for a murder - then who's to blame here for what's considered an acceptable amount of time? Pardon me for the ghetto phrasing but - don't hate the player, hate the game.

I absolutely believe that there are people who have made choices in their lives and will always make those choices. However, from a different standpoint I also believe that people have the right to grow up and realize what they've done.

If they're not given a chance to make a new life and can't get a job and contribute to society, then what are you left with? A self fulfilling prophecy.

And if you truly believe this, don't ever take a ride in a taxi in Ireland. 
(I'm guessing only Garda, Inspector, and Beal Feirste will get that)

Again - so we're clear - If my daughter was harmed irreparably by someone - I'd have a new garden in the yard. But I do believe there are people who got lost along the way. :-s


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## Guest (Oct 17, 2009)

I beg your pardon...........


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## L4G81 (Nov 12, 2006)

*\O/*



Sniper said:


> I beg your pardon...........


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

Sniper said:


> I beg your pardon...........


Sniper - you're just hoping I'm going to push the envelope and keep posting pictures that support my opinion :wink:


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## Endo (Mar 29, 2009)

Sentinal and Duece, I said in my original post that I didn't think 15 years was enough but the court did and that's the final word. My point was if he paid an appropriate penalty (in the courts eyes, not yours or mine) that fit the crime he should be able to start at zero not in the red. You judging him and discounting what the court deemed an appropriate penalty is by far more foolish than anything you are accusing me of. Are you that much of an elitist that you think your opinion carries more weight than that of our judicial system? Don't give yourself that much credit.


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

Endo said:


> Sentinal and Duece, I said in my original post that I didn't think 15 years was enough but the court did and that's the final word. My point was if he paid an appropriate penalty (in the courts eyes, not yours or mine) that fit the crime he should be able to start at zero not in the red. You judging him and discounting what the court deemed an appropriate penalty is by far more foolish than anything you are accusing me of. Are you that much of an elitist that you think your opinion carries more weight than that of our judicial system? Don't give yourself that much credit.


Our opinion (meaning all of society) does carry more weight than the judicial system....because we infact dictate to it what we believe are appropriate punishments. The problems begin when some bleeding heart judge decides to put his/her ideas ahead of a society and they change the rules. That's why electing judges has become a real option for this and other states.


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## bamasux (Oct 14, 2009)

OK...A little off subject with the whole murderer can't get a job deal. Go figure, he commited an ultimate crime, he now needs to spend many years proving his worth in society. Now allow me to clarify my original question. Should anyone be deserving of a pardon? By anyone, I am talking about the %1, the people who, in the scheme of things, had a major lapse in judjement and have since (with me around 20 yrs) have led exemplary lives. Some people, when they are young, for one reason or another, lose sight of the big picture. They may not think like a criminal but make a few bad choices in life. Then reality sets in and they make all the right choices, for the rest of their lives. They work, pay taxes and raise families. They give back to society whatever they may have to offer, be it volunteering or just making sure that the kids they raised are brought up to be outstanding citizens. Should they not be given the chance to drop the stigma of their past discretions if they have an actual compelling need (which is a requirement), and that compelling need would allow them to give back to the community even more, for the rest of their lives. Keep in mind that conditions can be placed on pardons, thay still cannot get a LTC (unless they actually request the ability during the pardon process) and the pardoned record could still be used (and the pardon rescinded) by a judge if another crime is EVER commited.

I forgot to say, I know some of you believe that no one should ever get pardoned. I respect your opinion as much as that of those who feel that pardons should be granted in certain instances. Feel free to give your reasonings. Had i not made the choices i did, i would more than likely feel the way that you do. I tend to lean the complete opposite direction than Mass politicians. But, being in the position that i currently find myself , I have to feel that a small minority of convicted persons do , indeed, deserve a second chance. Let a persons true character, not a few fleeting moments of absolute stupidity dictate that. Your thoughts?


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## maloney1014 (Jul 17, 2009)

well it dows suck b

sorry man my labtop sucks. anyway when they do a backround check. if they see the dates of the crimes they may look over it. but ya kno iv done a lot of stupid shit too. but you could try having the record sealed


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