# MSP/Driving test-questionable practices



## Guest (Aug 11, 2007)

Ok, so i was taking my licscense test at the Central MA safety council in west boylston, and i just wanted some advice. A MSP LT (yes, i was tested by a State Trooper) failed me for 3 reasons, all of which are extremely questionable. The first reason is "poor steering control", which he defined as "crossing your arms in the turn". He asked me what you do once your hands are crossed. I did the turn just fine, even if i did cross my arms, but he failed me. THe last two reasons ended up occuring during the 3 point turn. the 1st of these is that he did not see me looking for cars coming the opposite direction in the 2nd point of the 3 point turn. I made it as blatantly obvious as possible that i looked , but he didn't see because he was staring at the paperwork, and thus failed me. The last reason, which is the only remotely legitimate reason, is that in the 3rd point of the 3 point turn, i was pressing the brake to shift into drive and complete the turn, as i felt i could clear the curb in front of me. I somehow inadverantly pressed the accelerator, but was able to stop before I hit the curb behind me. All of these reasons seem very silly, and surely not enought reason to fail me. Now, I wouldn't be making such a fuss if i could just go back and test next saturday, but I can't because i'm moving out of state, and i'd have to get a new permit and wait 6 more months, which my family and I just cannot afford. Now I really hate to pull the race card, but i just have a nagging feeling that he decided to fail me once he looked at my permit and saw that my first name was Muhammed. 
My question to you is, do I have a case, can I fight it, for the reason that none of the things for which he failed me constituted unsafe or improper m/v operating practices?


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## TopCop24 (Jul 11, 2005)

I'll be the first to tell you this...you're opening up the flood gates. Don't come into this forum and start badmouthing an Lt. because "he failed you" Why is it relevant that you say exactly who it was?? You failed because you failed. Don't go making excuses about making "silly" mistakes. God help us all if you make a silly mistake on the road and kill someone. Finally you failed because of your driving, not because your name is Muhammed, Ismael, Jose, Fred etc.


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

How about taking some personal responsibility with the issue rather than throwing out your so-called "race card". Is your presumption to base your failure on race because of your frustration at the inconvenience it would cause you, or because you truly feel you discriminated against. Be honest, you can lie to everyone but yourself. You failed, period, and to answer your other question, no, you cannot fight your driving test failure. And furthermore, for someone not in possession of a valid driver's license, you seem awful sure that you know more about safe operation of a motor vehicle than an experienced State Police Lieutenant.


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## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

We all make mistakes and you made a few during your test. Deal with it and try it again.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

Wow...
If you cross your arms when turning you have basically locked your arms up. God forbid someone or something comes out of nowhere (real drivers know it happens all the time), you cannot "unlock" your arms and perform an evasive maneuver in time. Don't try and argue with me because I've seen evidence that it doesn't work. That's why you crossing your arms is a problem.

If you are inadvertently hitting the accelerator on a 3pt turn -- I dont want to see you in front of a crosswalk.

You have clearly demonstrated you cannot operate a vehicle safely. Thank god this Lt. kept you _off_ the road.

+1 on TopCop & Killjoy's remarks about accepting responsiblity.


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

:wm: c'mon someone is trying to stir the pot.


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## KozmoKramer (Apr 25, 2004)

The Troopers name (which has been edited out) is irrelevant to your point.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

And we are OFF!


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## Guest (Aug 11, 2007)

My BS meter is PEGGED !!!!!!!


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

MN8911 said:


> Now, I wouldn't be making such a fuss if i could just go back and test next saturday, but I can't because i'm moving out of state, and i'd have to get a new permit and wait 6 more months


Not sure how things work in the state you're moving to, but if things work the way you say it does, it sounds like that is exactly what you need. A lot of people, like myself, get pissed that some people don't know where the gas pedal is. Now, I'd be pissed if you didn't know where the brake pedal was backing out of a parking spot and ended up hitting my car.


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## PearlOnyx (Jun 28, 2002)

Not to mention that your permit and license from MA even if you got it wouldn't be valid for very long in your new state. Most states have a law which ensures that you obtain a license in that state within 10, 30, or 90 days once becoming a permenent resident. I'm glad he's not driving! =)


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

That's it kid good job throwing out the ole race card at such an early age. Your parents must be proud of you learning from them to use it when something doesn't go your way. Don't forget to use it in school and future employment opportunities.


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## KozmoKramer (Apr 25, 2004)

> i just have a nagging feeling that he decided to fail me once he looked at my permit and saw that my first name was Muhammed.


 _Muhammed_ huh... 
You didn't happen to tell the Trooper you only wanted a license to _drive_, but not necessarily to stop or park the vehicle did you?
We had a Muhammad a while back that just wanted to know how to fly a plane, but for some silly reason had no interest in landing it.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2007)

OK, to everyone who I've offended, I am truly sorry. I was very emotional at the time I wrote it, just an hour or two after the fact. i wish i could have written this after topcop's reply, as it knocked some sense into me, and for that, I thank you. I only mentioned the trooper's name because all my driving instructors told me that he was the one who tended to test the most "easily" (bad wording, I know) . I felt this way because I actually used the 6 months of permit time, doing driver's ed classroom a few weeks after i got my permit, and began driving soon after. I made a genuine effort at becoming a good driver, knowing full well the responsibility which I was being given, the lives of everyone whith whom I mush share the road. This contrasts the many instances of some of my peers, who take classroom a few weeks before the test, get their lessons done over the 2 or so weeks preceeding the test, and end up passing on the first try, and go on to start breaking the law the day they pass. I know I am a very inexperienced driver, and in retrospect, it was truly stupid of me to think I was smarter than my tester. 
I really am sorry, I hope you all will forgive me. a moderator can delete this thread, I came upon masscops forums a while back, as I am interested in a career in Law Enforcement, and realize how truly stupid my post was. 
I have a question though and ask it in the interest of learning how to drive properly and safely . In my road lessons, I was taught the "hand over hand" method of turning. It was while during this that my arms "crossed". how can I avoid this? 
I am asking you for forgiveness, please understand that. 
The only explanation for my post was nerves and emotion, which I realize in retrospect i should have kept under control. Again, I'm sorry and I beg a moderator to delete this, as it makes a very bad impression as my first post here, and I want to one day become a member of your profession.


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## KozmoKramer (Apr 25, 2004)

MN8911 - I empathize with you, but you should have paid closer attention to the disclaimers you agreed to when you signed up.


> Messages that are posted on MassCops become the property of MassCops once the author submits the message to be posted.


 And although we can delete threads as the following policy attests to:


> The owners of MassCops - Massachusetts Law Enforcement Network reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.


 We wont...

For an aspiring MSP Trooper, you certainly had no qualms trashing one by name (in a veiled accusation of bigotry) on your first post.
My advice; if you want this thread to go away, you may want to simply go away....
A simple word to the wise....


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## MARINECOP (Dec 23, 2003)

Hey I failed my first driving test for my CDL Class A license. We all make mistakes, suck it up and concentrate next time. A license is a privilage, not a right.


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## Guest (Aug 12, 2007)

Ok. I'm gone. You won't see me again until and unless I can make up for my actions. Can it be at least closed at this point? I want anyone who may see this in the future to see that the little idiot realized his stupidity, and not 50 more pages of members criticizing me (rightfully so). I did something stupid in the heat of the moment, and the MN8911 of this day is a hotheaded 16 year old shocked by how he was treated (again rightfully so, in retrospect I can see why he failed me and thank him for it, however inconvenient it could be for me) by an institution which he grew up admiring. And one last thing. I apologize for accusing him of racism. In my few years, my only other experience of negative emotions on this level was race related very soon after 9/11, and the 2 experiences were linked in my mind, and I spoke without thinking, and I now realize that the trooper had the best intrests of the people who I could potentially put in danger in mind when he failed me, and not a personal grudge. Thank you for knocking some sense into me, and for your empathy, and I beg for forgiveness and acceptance should I return in the future, as a wiser, older, and more level headed individual, with aspirations of becoming one of your peers, not someone you should feel the need to keep an eye on for the safety of others.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

MN8911 said:


> I have a question though and ask it in the interest of learning how to drive properly and safely . In my road lessons, I was taught the "hand over hand" method of turning. It was while during this that my arms "crossed". how can I avoid this?


Let go of the wheel (with your bottom hand) before your top hand comes over and crosses over it and repeat this motion.


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## JLT770 (Jun 7, 2007)

yeah, those reasons why you failed are legit. my poor sister didn't even get to drive during her first test, she was failed for having a tail light out...


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## lawdog671 (Sep 20, 2005)

Yeah because looking for oncoming traffic/pedestrians, maintaining positive control of the operation of a 2,000 lbs machine, and hitting the gas when you're aiming for the brake aren't valid reasons for failing...douche...
You failed because you suck at driving asshat.. not because of your name. I'm curious how in your infinite wisdom and experience you can draw a correlation, or is it easier to whine discrimination when you fail? You wouldn't have said "I only passed because my name is...."
And if someone's stirring the pot...okay I took the bait....take this stupid hook out o my mouth dammit lol

Shocked by your treatment???? You were told you failed not mistreated...Just because Mom and Dad tell you you're great doesn't make it true...such is life suck it up...
Oh and calling a guy a bigot in a public forum, naming him specifically and then apologizing when you get your foot out of your mouth doesn't make it all go away...maybe you'll learn to think before you speak while you're learning how to drive....before someone puts a foot in your backside for running your suck


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

I just hope dude isn't moving to CT!


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