# Court Officer



## adamo413

Figured this was this missing link in the academy section. I know a lot has been covered in previous threads, however nothing exists yet for those of us seeking information and tips surrounding the new Trial Court Officer Academy.


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## adamo413

https://www.mass.gov/doc/massachusetts-trial-court-officer-recruit-manual/download


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## Foxy85

adamo413 said:


> Figured this was this missing link in the academy section. I know a lot has been covered in previous threads, however nothing exists yet for those of us seeking information and tips surrounding the new Trial Court Officer Academy.


Trial Court made the right move creating some sort of formalized training, but the academy is a work in progress.

They def needs to seek outside advice from FTOs as to what's lacking within the training.


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## fjunior

Foxy85 said:


> Trial Court made the right move creating some sort of formalized training, but the academy is a work in progress.
> 
> They def needs to seek outside advice from FTOs as to what's lacking within the training.


I agree way too much time is focused on the unnecessary paramilitary type drill, and discipline for what the position really is. Things like an 8 week mandatory stay should be optional. The trial court officers are not state troopers here.


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## CCCSD

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with drill, uniforms, discipline. That’s what’s missing from 99% of the applicants. They need it.

Those that whine about it are the exact ones that it’s directed at.


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## fjunior

CCCSD said:


> There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with drill, uniforms, discipline. That's what's missing from 99% of the applicants. They need it.
> 
> Those that whine about it are the exact ones that it's directed at.


To a certain extent yes, but when it dissuades applicants from a job that normally used to draw a large amount something needs to be looked at.


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## CCCSD

If people want to be in LE, they will attend a school. If people are not taking the job because they don’t want paramilitary discipline, then they fucking don’t belong and should be flipping burgers.


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## Roy Fehler

CCCSD said:


> There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with drill, uniforms, discipline. That's what's missing from 99% of the applicants. They need it.
> 
> Those that whine about it are the exact ones that it's directed at.


Discipline? Absolutely.

Uniforms? Obviously.

Drill & ceremony? Other than what's necessary for graduation, a complete waste of time for any sort of law enforcement job, especially court officers.

Marching in formation, facing movements, etc., are designed to efficiently and uniformly move large amount of troops from one place to another. Completely unnecessary and not applicable to police, once the academy is over.

The time wasted on drill & ceremony in an academy could be MUCH better served with further study of academics, tactics, and officer survival.

BTW, that's coming from an Army veteran who had to do formations, facing movements, and marching in formation, even in a combat zone, but it made sense under those circumstances.


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## 9319

The TC “security department” is a joke. Most of the guys/gals there do a good job at the task at hand but couldn’t disperse a group of skateboarders if their pension depended on it. Most of them are only their cause they needed a job and paid a “donation.” That being said, a courthouse can be a dangerous place with its handling of prisoners, rival gangs, distraught family/friends THEN add on the anti gov types who hate what the court represents. D&C is a silly game that kills time, just like the bag dumps and name games at real police academies. If you don’t want to deal with it then quit. It’s 8 weeks. After that you have a life time BS gig that expects VERY little of you with great pay and benefits.


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## Roy Fehler

Javert said:


> D&C is a silly game that kills time, just like the bag dumps and name games at real police academies.


I don't disagree with the Day One/first week bag dumps, screaming, and flipping over the furniture. That helps identify and weed-out those who are attitude problems, cowards, and those who aren't willing to put in the effort to make it through.

After the first week or so, that crap should be backed off, and the emphasis should then be on making you a better police officer. If the recruits slack off, the staff can always drop the hammer, but training time shouldn't be wasted on pointless discipline games unless necessary.


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## fjunior

Roy Fehler said:


> Discipline? Absolutely.
> 
> Uniforms? Obviously.
> 
> Drill & ceremony? Other than what's necessary for graduation, a complete waste of time for any sort of law enforcement job, especially court officers.
> 
> Marching in formation, facing movements, etc., are designed to efficiently and uniformly move large amount of troops from one place to another. Completely unnecessary and not applicable to police, once the academy is over.
> 
> The time wasted on drill & ceremony in an academy could be MUCH better served with further study of academics, tactics, and officer survival.
> 
> BTW, that's coming from an Army veteran who had to do formations, facing movements, and marching in formation, even in a combat zone, but it made sense under those circumstances.


I guess when the new state police colonel took over last year, he wanted to change the academy to less paramilitary training and more on deescalation techniques when dealing with a vulnerable population. Which makes sense considering what the environment was like the past year in policing.


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## TacEntry

Roy Fehler said:


> Discipline? Absolutely.
> 
> Uniforms? Obviously.
> 
> Drill & ceremony? Other than what's necessary for graduation, a complete waste of time for any sort of law enforcement job, especially court officers.
> 
> Marching in formation, facing movements, etc., are designed to efficiently and uniformly move large amount of troops from one place to another. Completely unnecessary and not applicable to police, once the academy is over.
> 
> The time wasted on drill & ceremony in an academy could be MUCH better served with further study of academics, tactics, and officer survival.
> 
> BTW, that's coming from an Army veteran who had to do formations, facing movements, and marching in formation, even in a combat zone, but it made sense under those circumstances.


D&C is rooted in listening, observation and attention to detail. All essential elements of the job.


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## CCCSD

fjd1075 said:


> I guess when the new state police colonel took over last year, he wanted to change the academy to less paramilitary training and more on deescalation techniques when dealing with a vulnerable population. Which makes sense considering what the environment was like the past year in policing.


And look how fucked up they became...


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## fjunior

CCCSD said:


> And look how fucked up they became...


They are many great dedicated troopers in the agency that do not reflect the dishonesty that has occurred that last few years with the OT scandal. Unfortunately the agency has become tarnished, and it has been an uphill battle for the recently promoted superintendent to change this but has been trying to focus on accountability and conduct


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## Roy Fehler

CCCSD said:


> And look how fucked up they became...


If not all, then most of the troopers who got jammed-up recently were graduates of the "para-military" academy classes, so that's a non-starter.


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## Roy Fehler

TacEntry said:


> D&C is rooted in listening, observation and attention to detail. All essential elements of the job.


There are MANY other ways to teach that, other than absolutely useless marching and facing movements.


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## NEPS

I very much disliked my live-in stress academy. I was a college graduate with no more experience with being in uniform than Boy Scouts and minimum wage security work.

That said, I don't have a problem with learning how to organize in formation and march, especially if the whole academy is moving together (for example, we had to march to chow at the technical college across the street). And there is no reason why recruits should not learn how not to chatter idly. Cops sink themselves more often by saying stuff than they do by remaining quiet, listening to others, and thinking. And recruits must learn to follow orders and rules they don't like or agree with, so long as they are legal and moral.

The entire job requires applying self-discipline that many recruits, veterans excepted, have never had a chance to learn about anywhere.

The application of stress through drill instruction is not the best way, however, to expose recruits to job-related stress. I never once got in trouble on the street for my bed sheet corners or gig line. I did get in "trouble" early on by not always knowing how to react to people in situations or living lifestyles beyond what I had ever experienced, or for disobeying my instructions, or for bald-faced lies.

A more thorough approach to role-playing, with real professionals as the actors, would be the way to simulate true job stress and learn how to deal with it. Instead of just coming at the end of the academy, role playing should come daily, sometimes with recruits going from one "call" to an entirely different kind of "call." Officer survival should be a big part of it. But so must efforts to communicate with decent citizens as well as the donkeys who come to police attention, yet not treating the two as the same. The stress of maintaining your composure while you deal with emotional, disrespectful, or deceitful people, and as you work to learn what really happened or is actually going on, and while you watch out for your safety -- that is what stress on the job looks like, I think. Roleplaying should even encompass returning to the station after your calls to write a report about the incident, sometimes for a careful sergeant, sometimes for a prick lieutenant (or vice versa).

The most important work officers do is when they are alone or with one or two other officers. That is where self-discipline counts the most.

(One other thing about drill: It must be useful for something that many of our departments don't do, but some must now face nearly daily -- public demonstrations and riots. I suppose, though, that training for that is best done by departments (or tac units) facing these problems, not something recalled from the academy 10 years ago.)


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## CCCSD

D&C inculcates instant response to [email protected]# and rapid movement in formation, which is done daily by riot control teams, MFF, etc.

It has its place.

But Hey, it’s free country. Don’t want to do it? Don’t apply. Just because you are lazy and want the quickest way to a badge doesn’t mean they have to change the job for you.

K,
My comment had nothing to do with D&C at MSP. It had to do with the current loosening of standards, starting with the blowjob trooper and what shitbags are coming out today.


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## 9319

“Blowjob trooper” you mean that female K9 handler? Her BI should be fired and charged.


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## Roy Fehler

Javert said:


> "Blowjob trooper" you mean that female K9 handler? Her BI should be fired and charged.


The person who had the most to do with her being hired (her boyfriend at the time who was a major and then lieutenant colonel) "retired" in disgrace. I'm sure the BI got his marching orders from Sugar Daddy.


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## NEPS

Javert said:


> Her BI should be fired and charged.


The trooper's background investigation was cleared by an MSP internal investigation two years ago.
State Police probe clears leaders in hiring of trooper with drug-dealing past - The Boston Globe


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## adamo413

Back on track. What are some new training developments being added into the T-CO Academy. I recently saw a news clip with the trial court and the open pantry and it appeared that recruits had expandable batons on their duty belts in addition to the O.C. spray. Are they working there way up into being armed officers or slowly realizing that there are more tools needed to do the job.


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## fjunior

There was 


adamo413 said:


> Back on track. What are some new training developments being added into the T-CO Academy. I recently saw a news clip with the trial court and the open pantry and it appeared that recruits had expandable batons on their duty belts in addition to the O.C. spray. Are they working there way up into being armed officers or slowly realizing that there are more tools needed to do the job.


There was a bill in the legislature floating around to arm court officers, but never seems to have any traction. With all the liberal judges in mass many are anti gun and would frown upon firearms in courtrooms. With this police reform that recently passed, I can see arming courts officers going by the wayside even more.


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## Foxy85

fjd1075 said:


> There was
> 
> There was a bill in the legislature floating around to arm court officers, but never seems to have any traction. With all the liberal judges in mass many are anti gun and would frown upon firearms in courtrooms. With this police reform that recently passed, I can see arming courts officers going by the wayside even more.


Having dabbled in the training department for a bit, I can say they (Trial Court Security heads) are all for arming CO's. my understanding is the polices are already established, just waiting for the green light. Which all things considered could be years.

we do not have batons btw.

however batons would probably be the next step as you could easily teach all the strikes and blocks in a day or two to current officers and it's a fairly cheap addition to the tool belt. 
I know The taser idea has been kicked around before too. I think a lot of the delays in getting proper equipment is cost and training.

It's a (approximately) 900+ size agency. Logistics of rolling it out will be a nightmare I'm sure


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## fjunior

Foxy85 said:


> Having dabbled in the training department for a bit, I can say they (Trial Court Security heads) are all for arming CO's. my understanding is the polices are already established, just waiting for the green light. Which all things considered could be years.
> 
> we do not have batons btw.
> 
> however batons would probably be the next step as you could easily teach all the strikes and blocks in a day or two to current officers and it's a fairly cheap addition to the tool belt.
> I know The taser idea has been kicked around before too. I think a lot of the delays in getting proper equipment is cost and training.
> 
> It's a (approximately) 900+ size agency. Logistics of rolling it out will be a nightmare I'm sure


Indeed it took close to 5 years to get everyone equipped and trained with OC. I can't imagine what training with tasers would require.


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## adamo413

Open Pantry receives food donation from Trial Court police academy

My question regarding the batons comes from this clip from wwlp. Could be some sort of holstered tactical flashlight. But looked like an expandable baton to me.


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## fjunior

adamo413 said:


> Open Pantry receives food donation from Trial Court police academy
> 
> My question regarding the batons comes from this clip from wwlp. Could be some sort of holstered tactical flashlight. But looked like an expandable baton to me.


Nope flashlights seen them delivered to the training dept.


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## WMA7787

They were called court trial “police”. Getting more love then campus “security”


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## EJS12213

A while back they started to give the new COs flashlights. From the right angle, distance and because of the type of holster they can easily be mistaken for batons. 
It does look like they changed the academy uniforms again or atleast the patches. Anyone know if this is just an academy patch or are they going to be updating the current ones they have?


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## fjunior

EJS12213 said:


> A while back they started to give the new COs flashlights. From the right angle, distance and because of the type of holster they can easily be mistaken for batons.
> It does look like they changed the academy uniforms again or atleast the patches. Anyone know if this is just an academy patch or are they going to be updating the current ones they have?


Yes this past year the trial court changed its seal showing a scale, and eventually it will be the patch on the trial court uniforms. Here they are trying to make court officers more like other law enforcement agencies with the training but eliminating the standard commonwealth patch.


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## kg14

fjd1075 said:


> Yes this past year the trial court changed its seal showing a scale, and eventually it will be the patch on the trial court uniforms. Here they are trying to make court officers more like other law enforcement agencies with the training but eliminating the standard commonwealth patch.


Pretty sure the trial court wanted to do away with the seal with the Native American on it because they considered it "offensive" and so they replaced it with the scale. Ridiculous if you ask me since it's the symbol of the state.


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## Foxy85

EJS12213 said:


> A while back they started to give the new COs flashlights. From the right angle, distance and because of the type of holster they can easily be mistaken for batons.
> It does look like they changed the academy uniforms again or atleast the patches. Anyone know if this is just an academy patch or are they going to be updating the current ones they have?


Just the academy patch. Which I'm sure will be changed yet again because it includes the Indian


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