# Bill to Arm MassArt Campus Police



## svthlcpdmedic (Apr 27, 2003)

Bill Zeroes in On Arming MassArt Campus Police


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

I hope this passes. PC Gross...stop sitting on the fence and give your support to these men and women. Your silence is deafening!!


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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

It’s encouraging to see something like this. Very rarely does supporting police officers and our safety make news or get the attention of the senate.

Unless someone dies.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

I can see the college get rid of the police and hire contract security so they won’t have to arm them. 


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## EUPD377 (Jan 30, 2020)

The idea of an unarmed PD is insane to me. I can’t think of a single PD in N.C. that is unarmed currently. When our department was founded 30+ years ago, officers didn’t routinely carry but had firearms in their vehicles, which they would retrieve for calls. That lasted all of six months before we became routinely armed, and it’s been like that since then. It’s amazing that a department in an urban environment not only doesn’t routinely carry, but doesn’t even have access to firearms.


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

EUPD377 said:


> The idea of an unarmed PD is insane to me. I can't think of a single PD in N.C. that is unarmed currently. When our department was founded 30+ years ago, officers didn't routinely carry but had firearms in their vehicles, which they would retrieve for calls. That lasted all of six months before we became routinely armed, and it's been like that since then. It's amazing that a department in an urban environment not only doesn't routinely carry, but doesn't even have access to firearms.


The liberal media has done a good job of creating a phobia of guns. They have the public believing that the gun is an inherently evil object that cannot be used for good by anyone; guns are like the One Ring. They also have raised a generation on the doctrine that "violence NEVER solves anything." It's too terrifying to admit that there are, like Michael Cain said in The Dark Knight, people who can't be bought, reasoned, or negotiated with, and who just want to see the world burn. So, they place themselves at the mercy of those people but not only not confronting them, but not allowing anyone else to either.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

_"Durkin's *union* represents over 200 *campus security officers *at state colleges and universities around the state, including nearly a dozen officers on the MassArt campus."_
Ahhhh...........Never mind


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## 02136colonel (Jul 21, 2018)

EUPD377 said:


> The idea of an unarmed PD is insane to me. I can't think of a single PD in N.C. that is unarmed currently. When our department was founded 30+ years ago, officers didn't routinely carry but had firearms in their vehicles, which they would retrieve for calls. That lasted all of six months before we became routinely armed, and it's been like that since then. It's amazing that a department in an urban environment not only doesn't routinely carry, but doesn't even have access to firearms.


When UMass Boston PD was initially founded, they carried from dusk to dawn, and when escorting cash from the bursers office.
Legend has it, one day the cops didn't put away their guns when the sun came up, and the rest is history.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Remember when the Registry Police was unarmed too?


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

j809 said:


> Remember when the Registry Police was unarmed too?


Yeah!
You were like 6 years old Yimmy!


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## AS4 (Apr 5, 2014)

wow! Imagine if the Boston School Police received this kind of support! Not a dig at any campus PD's, but I can safely say BSP recover more weapons (including firearms) than many campus PD's out there...but can't have OC let alone firearms 

ya gotta love (hate) this city!


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## JD02124 (Sep 20, 2014)

AS4 said:


> wow! Imagine if the Boston School Police received this kind of support! Not a dig at any campus PD's, but I can safely say BSP recover more weapons (including firearms) than many campus PD's out there...but can't have OC let alone firearms
> 
> ya gotta love (hate) this city!


There is a policy in place that would allow them to carry baton and spray but its at the discretion of the Super Intendant. . . and they just got a new one that doesn't seem to have a different opinion from the previous one.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Not a cop discussion but a state discussion, NH requires security guards to have a license, armed guards require a specific license. If a guard is not licensed to be armed, there is still a build out in the law specifically designed for him to still be able to carry concealed for self defense.
* 106-F:8 Licensee Firearms Proficiency. -* 
I. All armed security guards, armed private investigators, and armed bail recovery agents shall meet the following minimum requirements in the proficiency in the use of firearms upon initial licensure and at least once per year. 
(blah, blah, blah)
*III. Nothing in this chapter shall prohibit a licensee from possessing or carrying a firearm for his or her personal protection as otherwise provided by law.
106-F:10 Prohibitions. -* 
I. Any licensee who is not licensed for firearms proficiency under RSA 106-F:8 shall not openly carry or display any weapon, nor publish or advertise in any way that he or she is carrying a weapon for personal protection. *This prohibition shall not be construed to prohibit a person otherwise qualified from carrying a concealed weapon.*
You want to have an unarmed department, or work as an unarmed cop...fine. But you can be damn sure I'll be carrying regardless, and hopefully everyone else has that same mindset. You are insane in this day and age to wear a uniform and a badge and take on the responsibility of both protecting a population AND enforcing laws and regulations unarmed.


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

trueblue said:


> I hope this passes. PC Gross...stop sitting on the fence and give your support to these men and women. Your silence is deafening!!


State school, the Boston Police Commissioner doesn't have much standing. The Superintendent of the State Police needs to weigh in.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

Bout time. I also had the idea that the SSPO law could be re-written stating any licensed SSPO at a college or university shall be armed. Don't want guns? You don't get to have cops.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

j809 said:


> I can see the college get rid of the police and hire contract security so they won't have to arm them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem with that. If you want just security then fine, don't be masquerading as a police department without guns.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

CapeSpecial said:


> No problem with that. If you want just security then fine, don't be masquerading as a police department without guns.


If you're a "police department" and you get a call that requires you to call a real police department....you're not really a police department.

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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Roy Fehler said:


> State school, the Boston Police Commissioner doesn't have much standing. *The Superintendent of the State Police needs to weigh in*.


NO WAY! You wouldn't want him to, and he's NOT about to want to either. Again! STATE school right? Best left to the Trustees at the school level, and Legislature to make things consistent state wide. Remember MGL CH 73/Sect. 18 and 15A/Sect. 22? I hope you do, and because a lot of people seem to have forgotten BOTH statutes, thats why we have the SSPO mess at state schools!


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

mpd61 said:


> NO WAY! You wouldn't want him to, and he's NOT about to want to either. Again! STATE school right? Best left to the Trustees at the school level, and Legislature to make things consistent state wide. Remember MGL CH 73/Sect. 18 and 15A/Sect. 22? I hope you do, and because a lot of people seem to have forgotten BOTH statutes, thats why we have the SSPO mess at state schools!
> View attachment 9959


Apples and oranges, the laws you quoted have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they get armed, that's merely where their police authority is (or can be) derived.

My point is that someone said the Boston Police Commissioner needs to get behind the officers, I pointed out that it's a state school, so he has no dog in the fight. If police brass are going to put their backing behind arming the officers, it naturally should be the state police.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Roy Fehler said:


> Apples and oranges, the laws you quoted have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they get armed, that's merely where their police authority is (or can be) derived.
> 
> My point is that someone said the Boston Police Commissioner needs to get behind the officers, I pointed out that it's a state school, so he has no dog in the fight. If police brass are going to put their backing behind arming the officers, it naturally should be the state police.


Roy,
I hope you didn't interpret my previous post as pissing in your Wheaties. With all due respect, I've been immersed, submerged, and lived, breathed, bled ALL the quotation, interpretation, misdirection, discussions, hearings, testimonies, and results from the above for two decades. The Colonel had already taken the position that he/she would NOT be able to interfere with the State Schools policies in the infamous "Massasoit Case". As far as SSPO, they only decide Licensing (Warrant) issues and training standards under the CMR 515.500. Every state university and community college armed their cops through Trustees voting it, or delegating it to President/Chancelor etc. The Board of Trustees act much like Boards of Selectmen do. As quoted by the MSP Cert unit "Those cops work for the college, not for us". We don't hire and fire them, and don't issue them equipment." When the Registry decided many years back to stop issuing CH.90 citation books to the STATE Campus cops, they went to the LEGISLATURE, and testified before the Public Safety and Higher Ed Committees.
Result? The Registry was reeducated on the definitions under CH.90 including STATE Campus cops as police officers enforcing CH.90. Got the citation books back. The State Police had ZERO to do with that issue either. 








Now as far as STATE SCHOOLS go, it is logical to equate MGL's CH 73/Sec.18 and CH 15A/Sec.22 with MGL CH 41/Sec98.
Where it started to get all gummed up and confused a long time ago, was when some schools _added_ SSPO powers to what they already had to exercise and operate with. SSPO under MGL CH22c/Sec.63 was meant for PRIVATE entities like Schools, hospitals, etc. STATE Universities and Community Colleges should NOT have started adding redundant and unnecessary SSPO powers.
Lastly, If you know the past and current politics of the MSP, and SPAM especially, they are not very supportive of "backing" any issues involving Campus L.E.
Peace


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

mpd61 said:


> Roy,
> I hope you didn't interpret my previous post as pissing in your Wheaties. With all due respect, I've been immersed, submerged, and lived, breathed, bled ALL the quotation, interpretation, misdirection, discussions, hearings, testimonies, and results from the above for two decades. The Colonel had already taken the position that he/she would NOT be able to interfere with the State Schools policies in the infamous "Massasoit Case". As far as SSPO, they only decide Licensing (Warrant) issues and training standards under the CMR 515.500. Every state university and community college armed their cops through Trustees voting it, or delegating it to President/Chancelor etc. The Board of Trustees act much like Boards of Selectmen do. As quoted by the MSP Cert unit "Those cops work for the college, not for us". We don't hire and fire them, and don't issue them equipment." When the Registry decided many years back to stop issuing CH.90 citation books to the STATE Campus cops, they went to the LEGISLATURE, and testified before the Public Safety and Higher Ed Committees.
> Result? The Registry was reeducated on the definitions under CH.90 including STATE Campus cops as police officers enforcing CH.90. Got the citation books back. The State Police had ZERO to do with that issue either.
> View attachment 9961
> ...


Again, you're *completely* missing my point. Wherever campus cops derive their authority from, be it SSPO or the laws you keep citing, is completely irrelevant to whether they're armed (I also don't think those laws are comparable to 41-98, as that law specifically allows city & town cops to carry firearms).

Someone mentioned that the Boston Police Commissioner should back the MassArt cops in their quest to be armed. I pointed out that as a state school, the city's police commissioner doesn't really have standing, and if a police commander wanted to recommend they be armed, that person would logically be the superintendent of the state police.

If you think his recommendation wouldn't carry weight with the college, I have to disagree.


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## EUPD377 (Jan 30, 2020)

I don’t think anyone’s recommendation will really change the college’s mind at this point. Their own consultants recommended arming, and they still voted overwhelmingly against it, citing “inclusivity” and “sensitivity” over facts and experts. God himself could come down from heaven and recommend the campus police be armed, and I still have zero faith that it would happen.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Roy Fehler said:


> Again, you're *completely* missing my point. Wherever campus cops derive their authority from, be it SSPO or the laws you keep citing, is completely irrelevant to whether they're armed (I also don't think those laws are comparable to 41-98, as that law specifically allows city & town cops to carry firearms).
> 
> Someone mentioned that the Boston Police Commissioner should back the MassArt cops in their quest to be armed. I pointed out that as a state school, the city's police commissioner doesn't really have standing, and if a police commander wanted to recommend they be armed, that person would logically be the superintendent of the state police.
> 
> If you think his recommendation wouldn't carry weight with the college, I have to disagree.


I did not really miss your point at all. I think it was a reasonable and logical conclusion. I just tried to utilize my personal experience coupled with historical fact to make a point about this one narrowly focused topic. I am not therefore *completely* missing your point. Just trying to articulate another perspective. Apparently I failed miserably.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Sspo shall possess an LTC in order to carry per state police CMR regarding sspo warrants 


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