# Scheft Proposal on Massachusetts Training



## Guest

http://www.ledimensions.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=121&Itemid=9

Macop pointed this out on the LED site, and if you have 4 hours to kill, he makes some good points. I haven't finished it yet, but my initial impression is that I agree with what I have read so far. Thoughts?

Please don't turn this into a 'OMG MSP wants to take over the world thread'. Try to keep it to the pros/cons of unified training for officers. Thanks.


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## Guest

Link is no good.

On the LED page click on "Home" then the 5th bullet point down.

The first thing I saw was that Sheriff DiPaola is the chairman of this study. Not exactly a stellar beginning.


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## Guest

Delta784 said:


> Link is no good.
> 
> On the LED page click on "Home" then the 5th bullet point down.
> 
> The first thing I saw was that Sheriff DiPaola is the chairman of this study. Not exactly a stellar beginning.


No.. it's not a great start. I missed that Delta. Damn mids give the the reading level of a 2nd grader.


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## Sgt Jack

I only skimmed it but it said that the SSPO is only 300 hours...I think they got that number wrong or I misread it considering that mine was about 600 hours...


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## Macop

I read the thing, there are some small mistakes in the sections where he describes training hours and a few other things. But the bulk of concept seems good. I think its about time we have a P.O.S.T model. The only thing I don't like is in other P.O.S.T states the academy can revoke/suspend your certification. However Shceft addressed that and feels it would conterprodutive and largly unessesary due to the system of unions/CS/and dept policies currently in place.

He did an elaborate model and as well as how to pay for it. He estimated that the revamping of the whole system would cost around 15,000,0000 and change, but by adding a $4 surcharge for new and renewed M/V registrations it would generate 16,000,000. Give it a look, its a good read.


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## Guest

There are some good ideas, but also some bad ideas. 

This plan would only further embolden sheriffs to put their lackeys out on the street ("Look! My people are POST certified!!"). There should be a totally different training program for sheriffs and corrections officers geared solely towards corrections with no law enforcement certification of any kind.

Harbormasters are generally hacks who are taking positions much better suited for the police; that office should be a position within the appropriate police department. In Boston, the harbormaster is a lieutenant with the BPD Harbor Unit.

Constables are private mercenaries whose only connection with government is deriving their civil process-serving authority; a total re-write of the MGL to remove their criminal process authority would be better in the long run, IMO.

I do agree with a standardized curriculum for all police officers, be they state, municipal, campus, EPO, etc. My brother is on the job in Maine, and they have one academy for every police officer no matter their department.

Massachusetts is too big and too populated to have just one police academy, but it would be possible to have a standard curriculum. After the basic academy, recruits could then go on to specialized training; for example a municipal police officer will most likely never get involved in commercial vehicle enforcement, but the state police very well might. Campus police officers will probably never enforce hunting or shellfish laws, while that's the bread & butter of EPO's.

My overall take is that it's a good concept that needs some serious tweaking.


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## OutOfManyOne

He should stick to selling his books and just because he teaches criminal law to recruits doesn't mean he is a policy expert. Leave it the way it is.


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## PearlOnyx

The unified curriculum works very well in Florida. After you complete your basic class, you get your agency specific training through your agency. It makes life a lot easier if you look to transfer down the road during your career. Under the current MA system, you can go to an academy 2 or 3 times during the course of your carreer. Never made much sense to me.


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## OutOfManyOne

Here is what is going to happen. MSP is starting the first MPOC at New Braintree soon, Chelsea has six signed up to go there. In short time, all training will go up there and MPTC might be out of business. MSP now refuses to train locals in different areas because of fear of LECs. Example is truck enforcement. MSP will not train you to be DOT,200 hr course, unless you are assigned full time to truck enforcement. No municipal PD does this now that i know of and he will not train any LEC PDs. Eventually MSP will stop training officers in other areas where only MSP will be available to serve those communities. Very smart strategic planning, however you can always get that training somewhere else, thus further alienating municipal PDs from state police. Bad move in the long run i think for MSP. My two cents.


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## alphadog1

Everybody should go through one academy so that the basic training is streamlined and consistent. The police go to the police academy. The DOC/Sheriffs go to the corrections academy. Campus/Harbor Masters/Constables go to the SSPO.


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## OutOfManyOne

alphadog1 said:


> Everybody should go through one academy so that the basic training is streamlined and consistent. The police go to the police academy. The DOC/Sheriffs go to the corrections academy. Campus/Harbor Masters/Constables go to the SSPO.


 It will never happen in MA. You mean to tell me that once officers attend the new MSP MPOC they will no longer need to attend the RTT? I don't think so and let's not forget that the new recruits that go to MSP will have freedom after 1530 just like SSPOs so they can stay there or go to a hotel or home. And even if this happens, Lowell Academy,Worcester and MBTA will still have theirs.


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## Guest

OutOfManyOne said:


> You mean to tell me that once officers attend the new MSP MPOC they will no longer need to attend the RTT?


That's the idea; many MDC, RMV, and MA Capitol cops attended an MPOC, and amazingly the world didn't stop rotating on its axis when they became troopers.


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## chief801

It won't happen...it makes too much sense!

Ego, money, and territory will kill this awesome idea...


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## Mitpo62

Doesn't seem like rocket science. It has worked in NH for decades. One cop, one academy.


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## Macop

Alpha, Campus cops should be going to the F/T MPOC.


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## Barbrady

OutOfManyOne said:


> No municipal PD does this now that i know of and he will not train any LEC PDs.


Only one I have heard of: http://www.abingtonpolice.org/masterpattt.html Maybe West Bridgewater PD, too.


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## OutOfManyOne

They're not FT assigned to it, I know for a fact.


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## Barbrady

OutOfManyOne said:


> They're not FT assigned to it, I know for a fact.


Ok, yeah I wouldn't think there would be a need being a relatively small town.


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## PearlOnyx

Alpha,

I don't see why Campus Police or Harbormasters shouldn't have to go through a full academy either. Massachsuetts seems to have this idea that there are different degrees of being a cop. While some jobs are busier than others, and as a harbormaster or a campus cop (at a smaller campus), you may never deal with some of the things that the cities and state do, at the end of the day, you are still the guy that the public sees with the badge and the gun. You enforce the same law, and have the same responsiblities and liabilities when things go bad.

When I was a Deputy and a Reserve, I felt confident that the training I had through the Reserve academy was sufficient to do my job. Now that I am a Trooper, I've realized that I was just lucky that nothing serious ever really happened. I didn't have the training necessary to deal with a lot of situations, and I just didn't realize it. The same applies for anyone who has police authority, and exercises it even in the most simple ways. Every law enforcement officer should have the same training if they intend to enforce the law. 

This is where the state needs to correct it's archaic legislation and define very clear law enforcement powers.


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## Macop

Well said Pearl! BTW I remember when you were a CO/Deputy, When did you join SP, good for you.


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## Guest

PearlOnyx said:


> I don't see why Campus Police or Harbormasters shouldn't have to go through a full academy either.


In the case of campus police, there are some smaller colleges that really don't want "police", so they label them security, public safety, etc. They also don't want to spend the money and wait the time for a recruit to go through the full academy, so if the R/I or SSPO Academy wasn't available the officers wouldn't have any training at all, except perhaps "in-house".

The office of harbormaster is archaic at best, a political plumb usually handed out to one of the mayor's (or insert political title here) campaign supporters as a way to get city or town-funded fuel for their boats. In the 14 years I've been with my current PD, I have never heard of the harbormaster or one of the 10,000 assistant harbormasters (who also get free fuel for their boats) making an arrest. We have a full-service police marine unit, making the harbormaster even more irrelevant, if that's possible.


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