# Psych Exam



## aspiringLEO (11 mo ago)

Good Afternoon Everyone,

I’m new around here, so I hope I posted this in the right spot. I’m trying to make a career switch to Law Enforcement and I’m wondering if I’ll most likely get DQ’d in the psych. 4 years ago I was under a lot of stress at work and I didn’t handle it well. In my off hours and on the weekends I started drinking too much, was probably an alcoholic, so I sought help from a Psychiatrist. I’m not depressed anymore, and I’ve toned back the boozing to weekends only, although I don’t 100% abstain. I know policing and corrections are some of the most stressful jobs out there, but I believe I’ve changed my ways after seeking help. Anyways, do you all think I’ll probably be DQ’d and point blank- is it even worth pursuing this path? Would you all have any tips to make myself a better candidate?

Thank You!


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

aspiringLEO said:


> Good Afternoon Everyone,
> 
> I’m new around here, so I hope I posted this in the right spot. I’m trying to make a career switch to Law Enforcement and I’m wondering if I’ll most likely get DQ’d in the psych. 4 years ago I was under a lot of stress at work and I didn’t handle it well. In my off hours and on the weekends I started drinking too much, was probably an alcoholic, so I sought help from a Psychiatrist. I’m not depressed anymore, and I’ve toned back the boozing to weekends only, although I don’t 100% abstain. I know policing and corrections are some of the most stressful jobs out there, but I believe I’ve changed my ways after seeking help. Anyways, do you all think I’ll probably be DQ’d and point blank- is it even worth pursuing this path? Would you all have any tips to make myself a better candidate?
> 
> Thank You!


Depends what’s explained in your medical records. If anything is showing up about your visits to see a psychologist or psychiatrist then it’s entirely dependent on the department, some are a little more open to it than others, but nowadays with the liability factors it’s tough I’ll admit. Did you see a psychiatrist or psychologist? Reason I ask is if it’s a psychiatrist (MD = drugs), did they give you prescription drugs for the depression?


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## aspiringLEO (11 mo ago)

DPH1992 said:


> Depends what’s explained in your medical records. If anything is showing up about your visits to see a psychologist or psychiatrist then it’s entirely dependent on the department, some are a little more open to it than others, but nowadays with the liability factors it’s tough I’ll admit. Did you see a psychiatrist or psychologist? Reason I ask is if it’s a psychiatrist (MD = drugs), did they give you prescription drugs for the depression?


I saw a psychiatrist, I was on Sertraline for a month or two.


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## Tango_Sierra (May 20, 2010)

If you think your last job caused you a lot of stress, you need to think long and hard about a career in law enforcement with long hours of shift work, forced overtime , missing family events, holidays and that’s not even getting into great detail about interacting with the public, policing and seeing things that no member of the public would ever comprehend. And although you say you’re “not depressed anymore” doesn’t mean it can’t happen again to you. Not trying to be a buzz kill but really think about a career in LE mixed with your ability to handle stress, alcohol and depression. Good luck.


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## aspiringLEO (11 mo ago)

Tango_Sierra said:


> If you think your last job caused you a lot of stress, you need to think long and hard about a career in law enforcement with long hours of shift work, forced overtime , missing family events, holidays and that’s not even getting into great detail about interacting with the public, policing and seeing things that no member of the public would ever comprehend. And although you say you’re “not depressed anymore” doesn’t mean it can’t happen again to you. Not trying to be a buzz kill but really think about a career in LE mixed with your ability to handle stress, alcohol and depression. Good luck.


Will do man, thank you.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

I find it ironic that whenever someone does something wrong, SOMEONE starts citing, "They've been struggling with mental health issues for years." and are ready to forgive and forget. However if a cop gets stressed, he/she is dangerous should never be on the street and blah blah blah, which is why so many cops keep struggles to themselves. It can have a huge effect on a career, right or wrong.

If you're comfortable with your recovery, I wish you much success. You could be an asset to a department wherein you could have more empathy with those who are dealing with issues which is something the public is clamoring for these days.


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## aspiringLEO (11 mo ago)

Kilvinsky said:


> I find it ironic that whenever someone does something wrong, SOMEONE starts citing, "They've been struggling with mental health issues for years." and are ready to forgive and forget. However if a cop gets stressed, he/she is dangerous should never be on the street and blah blah blah, which is why so many cops keep struggles to themselves. It can have a huge effect on a career, right or wrong.
> 
> If you're comfortable with your recovery, I wish you much success. You could be an asset to a department wherein you could have more empathy with those who are dealing with issues which is something the public is clamoring for these days.


I hear you, Kilvinsky. I’m not looking for any excuses, just to see if its possible. If not, I guess I’ll be DQ’d. Already paid my $100 to the state of Massachusetts to take the civil service test, so I’ll try.


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

aspiringLEO said:


> I saw a psychiatrist, I was on Sertraline for a month or two.


At the very least I would say you’re going to need to explain yourself in the background or psychological aspect of the hiring process assuming you get to that point. I will say though, it might be an uphill battle. As someone else mentioned as well, the job can at times be very demanding mentally, I’ve seen completely normal people go into very depressive states at times from this job. Just something to think about it. 

$100 isn’t a huge price to pay to at least look into it. Worst your department can say is no..


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

Kilvinsky said:


> I find it ironic that whenever someone does something wrong, SOMEONE starts citing, "They've been struggling with mental health issues for years." and are ready to forgive and forget. However if a cop gets stressed, he/she is dangerous should never be on the street and blah blah blah, which is why so many cops keep struggles to themselves. It can have a huge effect on a career, right or wrong.
> 
> If you're comfortable with your recovery, I wish you much success. You could be an asset to a department wherein you could have more empathy with those who are dealing with issues which is something the public is clamoring for these days.


That was my problem for years in trying to get into law enforcement. I suffer from depression and I've been on medication for years for it. I've never been suicidal, abused drugs or alcohol, or been depressed to the point where I can't get out of bed, and the depression is controlled with medication and counseling. However, with many departments I applied for, all I had to say was that I was on meds and that was enough for them to say "thanks but no thanks." Once I did get hired, I was warned by two of my FTOs to keep my mental health to myself because "the other cops here will tear you apart and wash you out of here if they find out you're taking mental medication" I don't think all departments are like that, but needless to say, that place wasn't a good fit for me.


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

PG1911 said:


> That was my problem for years in trying to get into law enforcement. I suffer from depression and I've been on medication for years for it. I've never been suicidal, abused drugs or alcohol, or been depressed to the point where I can't get out of bed, and the depression is controlled with medication and counseling. However, with many departments I applied for, all I had to say was that I was on meds and that was enough for them to say "thanks but no thanks." Once I did get hired, I was warned by two of my FTOs to keep my mental health to myself because "the other cops here will tear you apart and wash you out of here if they find out you're taking mental medication" I don't think all departments are like that, but needless to say, that place wasn't a good fit for me.


Yes, all departments ARE like that.

In spite of the recent trend for police departments to _TALK_ about being understanding about mental health, they’re not at all, and ONLY care about covering their asses.

I’ve lost count on the amount of police officers I’ve seen who have either eaten their guns, or otherwise self-destructed, because of the stress of the job. From what I know, they all to a person were terrified of asking for help, because they knew that meant their gun would be taken away, they’d be put on paid or unpaid leave, sent for a mental health evaluation, and be forever stigmatized by the job.

Instead, they suffered in silence, until the pressure got to be too much for anyone to handle, while their chiefs publicly proclaimed their commitment to police mental health, but couldn’t wait to suspend anyone who asked for help.

You’re on your own if you're a cop. The same department that publicly proclaims their commitment to mental wellness will also be the ones who take your gun, suspend you, and send you for a mental health “evaluation” that will ultimately end your career.


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

Roy Fehler said:


> Yes, all departments ARE like that.
> 
> In spite of the recent trend for police departments to _TALK_ about being understanding about mental health, they’re not at all, and ONLY care about covering their asses.
> 
> ...


It's one of the main reasons why I won't return to LE...at least not in an officer role. The shit I dealt with and couldn't talk to any of my colleagues about are also one of the reasons why I have now started a career in mental health.


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

PG1911 said:


> It's one of the main reasons why I won't return to LE...at least not in an officer role. The shit I dealt with and couldn't talk to any of my colleagues about are also one of the reasons why I have now started a career in mental health.


I don’t know who your clientele mostly are with your new profession, but I think that’s pretty legit that you took what you have suffered with in the past, had negative experiences in LE and then turned it into a career. Good for you! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Here is a pretty decent summation of how things work. I copied this from IMDb and it's dialogue from that awesome 1970 movie, "Catch 22". 


Yossarian: Is Orr crazy?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Of course he is. He has to be crazy to keep flying after all the close calls he's had.
Yossarian: Why can't you ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: I can, but first he has to ask me.
Yossarian: That's all he's gotta do to be grounded?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: That's all.
Yossarian: Then you can ground him?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: No. Then I cannot ground him.
Yossarian: Aah!
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: There's a CATCH?
Yossarian: A catch?
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: Sure. Catch-22. Anyone who wants to get out of combat isn't really crazy, so I can't ground him.
Yossarian: Ok, let me see if I've got this straight. In order to be grounded, I've got to be crazy. And I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I'm not crazy anymore, and I have to keep flying.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: You got it, that's Catch-22.
Yossarian: Whoo... That's some catch, that Catch-22.
Dr. 'Doc' Daneeka: It's the best there is.


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## R2D2 (Dec 13, 2013)

Look outside of MA. I am rated through the VA at 70% for PTSD, Depression, and insomnia. I got offered and declined with Amtrak PD, I got offered and declined with Nevada Highway Patrol, because I had already accepted an at the time better for me LE position with a federal agency. 
Dont hide your past own it. You will be asked a lot of questions about it, be honest and show them why your past would make you the BEST candidate for the job, and how your not going to let your strengths stop you from achieving your goals.
That “stigma” is a Massachusetts thing, we have a couple west coast members on here maybe they will chime in.


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## KPD54 (Oct 30, 2020)

Id agree with our Fed. Maine isn't going to dq you from the process just because you have had a past issue, so long as you can articulate what happened, why, and how youve dealt with it. You can be more than your past, just be upfront and honest, and prepared to answer any questions


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

When I was in Mississippi I approved a leave of absence for an officer to attend in-patient therapy for 3 months. Since he didn't have any access to email or the internet I wrote him a letter every few weeks so he would feel connected. He came back, served with us, moved on to another agency and is still on the job and doing well last I heard. 

So, yeah, it may be a Mass. thing, or it may be only some agencies, but it's NOT a blanket DQ everywhere. Best of luck.


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

USM C-2 said:


> When I was in Mississippi I approved a leave of absence for an officer to attend in-patient therapy for 3 months. Since he didn't have any access to email or the internet I wrote him a letter every few weeks so he would feel connected. He came back, served with us, moved on to another agency and is still on the job and doing well last I heard.
> 
> So, yeah, it may be a Mass. thing, or it may be only some agencies, but it's NOT a blanket DQ everywhere. Best of luck.


I’ll tell you what it is.. it’s an Irish thing. It just so happens here in Massachusetts over the years the majority of LE in this state, especially bigger cities has been Irish Catholic and if there’s one thing us Irish don’t do it’s talk about how we feel. We bury it so deep until it manifests itself in some ugly ways. 

Half joking of course, but it’s kind of true.


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## Wrestler1996 (Dec 14, 2021)

Would being on meds when I was a kid 12-14 be a potential disqualifier?


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

Wrestler1996 said:


> Would being on meds when I was a kid 12-14 be a potential disqualifier?


You’re joking right? .. no, I think you’ll be okay man.


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

DPH1992 said:


> I’ll tell you what it is.. it’s an Irish thing. It just so happens here in Massachusetts over the years the majority of LE in this state, especially bigger cities has been Irish Catholic and if there’s one thing us Irish don’t do it’s talk about how we feel. We bury it so deep until it manifests itself in some ugly ways.
> 
> Half joking of course, but it’s kind of true.


I was thinking that same thing scrolling down reading the comments and then thought about the quote in the departed and then saw your post. There definitely has to be some truth to it...and no not because it was in the depahted. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Wrestler1996 (Dec 14, 2021)

DPH1992 said:


> You’re joking right? .. no, I think you’ll be okay man.


I mean this is my first time through the process I’m not sure how strict things are. What about previous experiences in therapy is that a DQ?


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

And then when the Officer with the prior psych history looses it and kills someone, freezes up, eats their gun…
Agencies are smart not to hire known issues.


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## R2D2 (Dec 13, 2013)

CCCSD said:


> And then when the Officer with the prior psych history looses it and kills someone, freezes up, eats their gun…
> Agencies are smart not to hire known issues.


So an officer that seeks mental health treatment while on the job should be terminated?


CCCSD said:


> And then when the Officer with the prior psych history looses it and kills someone, freezes up, eats their gun…
> Agencies are smart not to hire known issues.


Plenty of active officers receive “mental health” treatment, should they be terminated?
Plenty of active officers that do not receive “mental health” treatment probably should, some may even be considered a “loose cannon”, should they be terminated?
Are you going to tell me a 21 or 22 year old with zero life experience that still lives with their parents would be a better choice than someone 31 or 32 that’s been in the real world, gone through struggles and overcame them?


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

R2D2 said:


> So an officer that seeks mental health treatment while on the job should be terminated?
> 
> 
> Plenty of active officers receive “mental health” treatment, should they be terminated?
> ...


Did I say anything about hired cops? No. Hiring people with already diagnosed mental problems is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Get a fucking clue.


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## R2D2 (Dec 13, 2013)

No need to for all that, in a friendly conversation. But there really isn’t a difference in liability for a city/department/agency for an officer with seeking mental health treatment prior to being hired or already on the job.
This is 2022 not 1982


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

Yeah, any department that says they’re okay with an officer getting professional mental help while being on the job is completely full of shit.

Not saying that’s how it should be, but that’s the reality.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

R2D2 said:


> No need to for all that, in a friendly conversation. But there really isn’t a difference in liability for a city/department/agency for an officer with seeking mental health treatment prior to being hired or already on the job.
> This is 2022 not 1982


Tell that to the lawyers. Are you really THAT naive? There is a HUGE difference in KNOWINGLY HIRING A MENTALLY DEFICIENT OFFICER. Google Brady. Learn something.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

DPH1992 said:


> Yeah, any department that says they’re okay with an officer getting professional mental help while being on the job is completely full of shit.
> 
> Not saying that’s how it should be, but that’s the reality.


Not mine. We have sent people in and supported them with desk type assignments for years.


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## aspiringLEO (11 mo ago)

Hey R2D2, DPH, and CCCSD,

I wasn’t trying to start any arguments between you guys. Looking at the Mass HRD requirements for police officers, I don’t know if I’d be qualified for the job anyways.

“XVI) Psychiatric A) Category A medical conditions include current or past diagnoses of: (i) disorders of behavior, (ii) anxiety disorders, (iii) disorders of thought, (iv) disorders of mood, (v) disorders of personality. B) Category B medical conditions shall include: (i) a history of any psychiatric condition, behavior disorder, or substance abuse problem not covered in Category A. Such history shall be evaluated based on that individual's history, current status, prognosis, and ability to respond to the stressors of the job, (ii) any other psychiatric condition that results in an individual not being able to safely and effectively perform the job of police officer.”

I asked HRD and it seems like I could be categorized as either. Having a “past” issue and a “history” of having an issue seems synonymous to me, but they said to let the medical and psych decide. I’m not a perfect man, but I’ll leave it up to those above me to decide.

God bless and stay safe


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## R2D2 (Dec 13, 2013)

CCCSD said:


> Tell that to the lawyers. Are you really THAT naive? There is a HUGE difference in KNOWINGLY HIRING A MENTALLY DEFICIENT OFFICER. Google Brady. Learn something.


Sir, maybe you need to do some learning, simply seeking mental health treatment does not make someone mentally deficient, it does not disqualify them from purchasing, owning, or carrying a firearm, and it is not an automatic DQ to work in law enforcement.
Are you this argumentative and hostile on the job?


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

CCCSD said:


> Not mine. We have sent people in and supported them with desk type assignments for years.


By “on” I meant on the street.


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

CCCSD said:


> Did I say anything about hired cops? No. Hiring people with already diagnosed mental problems is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
> Get a fucking clue.


Not hiring someone based solely on past mental health diagnosis/treatment is a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act, and a massive lawsuit in the making.

That kind of discriminatory hiring process would also preclude a large pool of potential recruits; combat veterans, many of whom are diagnosed and being treated for PTSD, including me. I’m a combat veteran, diagnosed and was being treated when I was hired. The agency would have to show how the diagnosis/treatment would hinder their job performance, it’s not an automatic scarlet letter.

If anyone needs to “get a fucking clue”, it’s you.


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

Roy Fehler said:


> Not hiring someone based solely on past mental health diagnosis/treatment is a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act, and a massive lawsuit in the making.
> 
> That kind of discriminatory hiring process would also preclude a large pool of potential recruits; combat veterans, many of whom are diagnosed and being treated for PTSD, including me. I’m a combat veteran, diagnosed and was being treated when I was hired. The agency would have to show how the diagnosis/treatment would hinder their job performance, it’s not an automatic scarlet letter.
> 
> If anyone needs to “get a fucking clue”, it’s you.


Another thing to consider is that just because someone doesn't have a history of mental health issues doesn't mean they aren't there; it just means they haven't sought help. As LE often attracts those with the mentality that mental health treatment is for the weak minded and cowards, there's likely a lot of people with untreated issues who are getting hired. Often the difference between someone who has had mental health treatment and someone who has not is not that one has problems and the other doesn't. The difference is that one _recognized and addressed_ their problems and the other did not.


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## R2D2 (Dec 13, 2013)

Roy Fehler said:


> Not hiring someone based solely on past mental health diagnosis/treatment is a violation of the Americans With Disabilities Act, and a massive lawsuit in the making.
> 
> That kind of discriminatory hiring process would also preclude a large pool of potential recruits; combat veterans, many of whom are diagnosed and being treated for PTSD, including me. I’m a combat veteran, diagnosed and was being treated when I was hired. The agency would have to show how the diagnosis/treatment would hinder their job performance, it’s not an automatic scarlet letter.
> 
> If anyone needs to “get a fucking clue”, it’s you.


Off topic but since you brought up ADA, I went to a master fitness instructor course in Texas in 2019. One officer from Mississippi (don’t remember what agency) that attended was also a combat vet and had a prosthetic leg from the knee down. I just remember thinking WOW. He worked the street, and was about to take over his departments fitness program, talk about resiliency and overcoming something like that, and not letting it slow him down.


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

R2D2 said:


> Off topic but since you brought up ADA, I went to a master fitness instructor course in Texas in 2019. One officer from Mississippi (don’t remember what agency) that attended was also a combat vet and had a prosthetic leg from the knee down. I just remember thinking WOW. He worked the street, and was about to take over his departments fitness program, talk about resiliency and overcoming something like that, and not letting it slow him down.


One of my great honors was meeting General Frederick Franks, who lost a leg in the Vietnam War, and successfully fought to not only remain on active duty, but also to stay in combat arms.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_M._Franks_Jr..


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## Wrestler1996 (Dec 14, 2021)

Did anyone take the psych exam for the state today?


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## DrizzEATSPIZZA (Dec 14, 2021)

Wrestler1996 said:


> Did anyone take the psych exam for the state today?


I took it yesterday


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

DrizzEATSPIZZA said:


> I took it yesterday


They still have the old guy that looks like an insane Albert Einstein administering the test?


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## Wrestler1996 (Dec 14, 2021)

Do you get notified if you get disqualified?


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## DrizzEATSPIZZA (Dec 14, 2021)

DPH1992 said:


> They still have the old guy that looks like an insane Albert Einstein administering the test?


Yeah he was the best part. Made a joke about doing this for 30 years and “maybe this year I’ll figure it out” or something like that.


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