# The Great Vet Debate



## Southside

STA1/8 said:


> How can this list can be established? It is going to change drastically, didn't they just give the test to a whole bunch of vets who were overseas and could not take the test. I believe they gave the test again about two weeks ago to all these military personnel. I rememeber they used to mail the test out. I guess they did not this time and offered a make up exam which was about two weeks ago.


I didn't hear that....Where did this info come from? Solid source or a friend of a friend. If it is true, I will say that it should not happen. I have no problem with Vets....My dad and grandfather were both vets....but if you are in the military, war and active service is part of the beast. If you are there, you shouldn't be able to take the test until the next one comes up when you come home. This is my opinion, please do not take it personal.


----------



## PBC FL Cop

> I didn't hear that....Where did this info come from? Solid source or a friend of a friend. If it is true, I will say that it is bull squabble and should not happen. I have no problem with Vets....My dad and grandfather were both vets....but if you are in the military, war and active service is part of the beast. If you are there, you shouldn't be able to take the test until the next one comes up when you come home. This is my opinion, please do not take it personal. I figure if you are in the military, that is your obligation.....if you want to become a cop, wait till your obligation is up and then pursue it.


Shawn 76,

So what your saying is that our US soldiers, fighting for YOUR country and risking their lives and having to be away from their families for the very freedom you enjoy everyday, should be PUNISHED because they couldn't be here when the civil service test was given.

Smarten up!!!


----------



## Southside

PBC,

Learn to read, I never said punish them. I simply stated that where they are overseas, they are at war. When they come home then they can take the test. Do you have any idea how many people are over there. I never had the opportunity to serve, was about to until my baby was born....so I chose to stay home and work to support my family. I wasn't able to just get up and go because of my circumstances. I will say though, it is not fair to go and give a test to someone who joined the military right out of high school and now he is 21 with maybe a little time left and will come home sometime this winter or next year and be given preference over me. I am not going to soften this up for you, I do not agree with full veterans preference.....Now that being said...I do agree with giving extra points say 5 extra. You need to understand that there are some of us who have families that have been waiting a long time to get on.....My first priority is getting on so I can support my family and do what I have always wanted to do. You know this is the second time you and I haven't seen eye to eye and we have only interacted twice. If you have a serious problem with my views send me a PM and will talk, do not however take your gripe to the board....The only thing you accomplish is the creation of a heated debate. So either go seek out FloridaCops.com or tell me to smarten up in a PM.

As for individuals who are Veterans,

Please excuse me if I come across as a jerk. I am in no way trying to say that what you guys/girls do for our country does not deserve extra benefits. You individuals put you lives on the line for all of us and I as an individual and a father greatly thank you and appreciate it all. I simply tried to make a point and was misunderstood by some. I know a police chief who is a veteran and he gave me a great quote "Veterans do deserve extra points on the exam, but not full preference....reason being is that their are other candidates out there who are highly qualified and would make great cops, but miss out on the chance due to the preference". I personally know an individual who was in the army who was a well respected Green Beret. this indiviual because of his status not his score (which was not that great) was chosen by a police depatment. Right before this individual became employed he was arrested for breaking in to the house of a ranking officer from a large city and stole his badge and uniform....the rest I will not get into....It just would have sucked if this person got the job over another guy better suited.


----------



## PBC FL Cop

Shawn 76,

I have nothing against you because I don't know you, so don't take it that way. What I have a problem with is when OUR soldiers have to go through fighting for OUR country and OUR freedoms and for that all we as a country can reward them with is the chance to become a police officer, then rather than fight them, you should thank them and welcome them aboard.

I am proud of the job our soldiers have done in this war and if by assisting them in becoming cops is all we can do, thats not too much to ask.

You chose not to join the service so you could be home with your family and thats your right as a US citizen and I'm not judging that, but some of our soldiers did not have that option and went regardless so you and I didn't have to, but now when they come back, thank them the best way we can.

Hopefully you'll get your chance to become a police officer, but don't go after it on this front. Don't ever sell your soul for a job, because its only a job. You told me that the system is great in Mass and works just fine, well this is part of that system and a part I hate to see people attack. 

Good luck in your career


----------



## STA1/8

I have to say I fel bad for you people that are not vets. Luckliy I am one and have been on for six yrs. It is tough but if you score high enough and they want you, you will get hired. I heard of towns putting on more cops than they anticipated because they wanted to reach someone on the list. But I think the preferance is good. If it weren't for the prefernce I would be working a low paying job most likely, when I first got out it was hard to find a decent job. Got no respect what so ever for being in the service. I rember I went to see the local vet agent for a job and he pulled out the classified adds and tried to show me some lousy low paying jobs. I had to wait a yr for the test and two years for them to hire, luckily I got hired. It is the best job ever. Like I said a friend of mine has his masters and can not get hired and he has been trying hard, due to vet's. But I am thankful for the gratitude that civil service gave me for my sacrifices. I never knew about vet status when I was 18. I just made a lot of sacrifices when I was in the service and it feels good to be rewarded. Hopefully you guys will get on. And I do think they should make it a little stricter. Someone should not get it if they stood in the states for four yrs guarding nothing. Gil did you hear anything about the test given recently for military who were absent during the past exam.


----------



## MVS

Vets should get a few extra points, not preference. Being a Veteran doesn't make you anymore qualified than anyone else on the list. So why should they go first. If a Army cook served in Iraq he gets Vet status - theres a big LE related background, NOT!. Cut the crap, getting points for service is one thing but getting the preference over others because of it? That BS. Like PBC said, not everyone can make the sacrafice to join the service so why should we be held back? Giving points and not preference is called equal and fair treatment. Veterans are no better than non-veterans.

You want a thank you? "Thank you" and heres 3 or 5 points... now get in line.

Vets, sorry if I sound like a jerk but I know a few guys that are Vets and most disagree with the preference also. The ones that score low are the ones that are thankful for it. If you do good enough on the test you wouldn't need the pref.. There are also a few vets that shouldn't be allowed on a tricycle nevermind being given a gun.


----------



## dimen24

I've got to chime in on this one :lol: 

I am a vet myself, and I do like the full pref for vets, of course cause I am one. Being realistic though full pref is a bit unfair extra points is much more fair like the MSP give 2 or something.... as far as some of the other stuff I have read above, like vets that ride tricycles, or can't operate a weapon etc hehe.. there are scum bags everywhere just cause your a vet doesn't mean your better or more qualified. After 9/11 there were and still are lots of deployments, so there are going to be lots of vets flooding the field in the next comming years. 

For those of you who aren't vets I realize it can be hard to see what we go through. I have had to move more than once, due to deployments etc.. I just couldn't afford it on a military salary. I have lost residency many times, had to move, and had no choice. Many of my friends have gone through much worse especially those with families. Now in times like these it's tough to get anything done. I've got one semister of college left and I haven't been able to do one class due to my obligation. Now I am not asking for anyone to feel sorry for me, I chose my path and now I have to walk it. So does every other vet. Like I said before the full pref is unequal, the point system seems the only way to even it up.. but as many of us said before CS needs an overhaul.


----------



## union1

Guys, not for nothing but this topic has been beaten with a dead horse and im sure a few cattle. Vet preference sucks and its unfair but its a fact of life. If you dont like it, write a letter to every Tom, Dick and Harry stating your objections. I even posted a whole list of people you can copy and past your Email to. Gov Romney is a good one to start with, you may even get some kicks by letting the subject out on radio shows like extreme games on 96.9 fm ( I have herd it try to pop out on Jay's show).


----------



## ecpd402

I feel the Vet Pref should stay exactly the way it is. Those Veterans are fighting for your freedom. The same freedom that allows us to complain about how unfair Vet Pref is. Veterans deserve Preferance and our thanks. If you want to be on a police department join the service. They give housing to family members if your deployed.


----------



## BartA1

Non Vet here. I think the Veterans Preference should stay exactly the way it is. If you leave your family behind to go to some foreign place where you could lose your life, mind, and various other body parts. I dont think its asking too much that you have preference on a test that is given every two years, and I think that an accomdation should be made for you to take the test if you are serving your country at the time its offerred. I will second Union 1 this issue has been argued time and time before and it usually ends up turning into a insult match that gil or one of the other moderators ends up putting it to bed.

t: Union1 nice avatar


----------



## SPS5592

I couldnt have said it better myself Bart, thank you very much.


----------



## union1

Well here we go again, Ide say to all the non vets, its about time to pack up your belongings and either go to another state or get out of Law Enforcement all together. With the new Vet law that looks like it has been enacted, you have a better chance of seeing god than getting a job as a cop


----------



## Macop

whine, whine, whine. Its not a perfect system, but hey what ya gonna do. I agree with Vet points just like points for degrees, police academy, police experience and EMt certs. The points should be the same for all the kinds of preferences, sounds fair. I think VETS should get full preference, if they were drafted that is. I appreciate the sacrafice, but it was a personal choise and there was no one forcing you to join.


----------



## BartA1

The big problem that I see with The veteran system in Massachusetts is in the way the state administers the whole civil service process. They give an open competitive exam and allow everyone with a GED to take the test. Some Municipalities impose an age limit of 32, but that is another 10 page argument. The problem is the exam announcement mentions nothing of how the preferences rank, or how the regulations are administered. The only reason I know so much about this is I did a term paper on this subject in college because one of my instructors started singing the praises of how massachusetts has the best hiring practices for public safey employees. Civil service needs to list their hiring practices from how preferences are applied to consent decrees that way a person realizes the 99 or 100 they score isnt the only factor in where they place on the list.


----------



## scungie

*disable vet*

OK, to be an instigator, how bout disable vets, how do you feel about them, after they are already on the job, they cant be laid off...any views?

I am not a vet, I am on the job already, and the disable vet rule erks me a bit...


----------



## union1

*Re: disable vet*



scungie said:


> OK, to be an instigator, how bout disable vets, how do you feel about them, after they are already on the job, they cant be laid off...any views?
> 
> I am not a vet, I am on the job already, and the disable vet rule erks me a bit...


My question is, if they truly are disabled exactly how can they do such a "physically Demanding Job?


----------



## Burner1

Disabled vets are allowed a max percentage of disability (30% I think). I worked with 2, and one had a 10% disability, that was from running too much, as a Ranger. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm o.k. with that. The other broke an ankle from a parachute drop (Airborne Ranger), also around 10%. I think I'm o.k. with that as well. I do not think anyone needs to argue that if one has a "Purple Heart", with limited disability, should be o.k. As for "physically demanding", in 5+ years, I had to run once, and wrestle once. In the overall scheme of things, not very demanding. If the disabled vets were in my position, they could have handled both situations just as well.


----------



## scungie

I am not even talking about being demanding or anything, why should I be laid off before them? That is my grief...


----------



## Macop

I say B.S if a copthat is a non-vet has ten yrs on and a disabled VET has 5 yrs on and layoffs come the disabled VET should not get to keep his/her job over the ten Yr guy/gal. That is crazy. Time on should dictate who get s laid off first, its that simple.


----------



## Guest

Burner1 not to try and burn your. But you said that you have been on 5+ yrs and you had to run once and wrestle once. Where do you work? You must work in a small town most likely. I have been on about four years and have to run and wrestle every week, but I enjoy it. Wouldn't want it any other way. Everyone says police work is the same but it is very different from being a town cop and a city cop. City police have to overlook smaller infractions. so that we do not get tied up on miniscule reports when felonies are in progress. Just my opinion, this should be another topic. The difference between small town police work and city polie work.


----------



## MVS

I believe Vets are entitled to many benefits that others aren't, however I disagree with employment preference. It is B.S. that they keep their job over someone with more time..


----------



## Burner1

"Sniper", you're right, there is a difference between city and town duties. In a suburban town of 15k, compared to a city of 500k, I certainly agree there is a difference. So as not to inflame a contest between the two, let's agree that unless we are actually serving in political office, nothing will change. Civil Service needs to be completely revamped, but we will have to wait a long time to come before that happens...or all of "us" suddenly get elected into office.


----------



## jroberge

I am a Vet. I took the Civ serv test on the military makeup date cause i just simply couldnt make the regular date, (orders to virginia) i mean they should have a makeup date for vets cause, we are the only people who are typically in the running for a CS job


----------



## EOD1

You know I have been in for a while and I think that a point system should go to vets based off of years in service, where you served (combat locations) and your MOS. I am going to take my vetran status and use it, I think my resume will speak volumes over my status alone though. You can actually say that about all prefrences in the civil service, EEO, residency, etc etc. I didn't get hired at the 3 civil service PD's I interviewed w/ and neither did any of the other vets. in fact every single person that did get hired was a resident. In fact 1 of the residents was asked to leave 2 months after the R/I academy because he didn't have what it takes. Bottom line is that the system sux but we all just gotta make do!


----------



## mpd61

EOD1 @ 29 Aug 2004 12:57 said:


> You know I have been in for a while and I think that a point system should go to vets based off of years in service, where you served (combat locations) and your MOS. I am going to take my vetran status and use it, I think my resume will speak volumes over my status alone though. You can actually say that about all prefrences in the civil service, EEO, residency, etc etc. I didn't get hired at the 3 civil service PD's I interviewed w/ and neither did any of the other vets. in fact every single person that did get hired was a resident. In fact 1 of the residents was asked to leave 2 months after the R/I academy because he didn't have what it takes. Bottom line is that the system sux but we all just gotta make do!


I think EOD1 identifies a recurrent theme:

Civil Circus SUCKS!!!! There are so many holes and inconsistencies in it. Makes alot of us out here pissed. However.......................

Get off the Vets. As pointed out DVET sometimes means sh*t just like GENDER, or RESIDENCY, EXPERIENCE, or whatever. So quit pissing on the Vets, or I'll hold them down and let them piss on you!
:twisted:


----------



## MVS

jroberge @ Sat Aug 28 said:


> I am a Vet. I took the Civ serv test on the military makeup date cause i just simply couldnt make the regular date, (orders to virginia)_* i mean they should have a makeup date for vets cause, we are the only people who are typically in the running for a CS job*_


... it's Only because the VETS points puts you to the top of the list. You didn't really outscore everyone, you just got the 'atta boy' escort to the top of the list. That's why most folks that are interviewed are VETS, because they all go to the top... it's not like you interviewed better than a non-vet... in many cases, only vets get interviewed because they are at the "top" of the list, not top of the crop.. Look at the MBTA for example just about 100% vets there, only vets get the 'card', because theres hundreds of them on the "top" of the list.... I agree with giving a couple of points, but not a automatic boost to the top.

mikemac64 said:


> You mean an Army cook like Shoshana Johnson who was in a fierce firefight, wounded, and taken POW. Those cooks have it tough, huh.


Sorry, I should have clarified it as the only DUTIES they did... A friend of mine has VET status and he was a COOK - NO ACTION.... although I'm glad it worked for him to get on the job... That's why I used that example.


----------



## Mitpo62

I don't think folks are pissing on the vets. It's the systems that sucks, naturally. I took the exam in '99, scored a 100%, and had vets with 80%'s going ahead of me. Now it is certainly not their fault. The "fault" lies in the system. When you have a legislature that at the time still gave preference to "non-combatant" vets it makes a mockery of the whole system and "it's" intent. But my hat's off to those who made this system work for them. Entering the armed services during peacetime, peeling potatoes in Missouri for two years, then returning to get a jump on everyone else. Now that's playing the game!


----------



## MVS

Mitpo62 @ Sun Aug 29 said:


> I don't think folks are pissing on the vets. It's the systems that sucks, naturally. I took the exam in '99, scored a 100%, and had vets with 80%'s going ahead of me. Now it is certainly not their fault. The "fault" lies in the system. When you have a legislature that at the time still gave preference to "non-combatant" vets it makes a mockery of the whole system and "it's" intent. But my hat's off to those who made this system work for them. Entering the armed services during peacetime, peeling potatoes in Missouri for two years, then returning to get a jump on everyone else. Now that's playing the game!


EXACTLY!! Like I said, I'm glad it worked for my friend and hats-off to the folks that served time... but the current systems is NOT right and needs to be corrected for it to be a true "Equal Opportunity".


----------



## USMCTrooper

I am a Vet.
I am a wartime Vet.
I am a VOLUNTARY combat Vet.
I used my pts recently on a promotional exam.
and I agree.....someone who barely spent 2 years in the Guard filing papers in Kansas and had to be dragged in for ATD each time with an unsat drill attendance doesn't deserve the same consideration as someone who spent X years active duty or X years Reserve duty and went off to war, conflict or saw some form of action besides paper cuts. Make it a scaled system if need be with pts ranging from 1/2 - 4 (as example only) Those who rate the 4 meet full criteria, those who just signed up for 2 yrs Guard duty and did nothing, went nowhere, barely met their obligation, get .5 To me about all they did over a civilian was attend Boot Camp. MY .02


----------



## EOD1

Exactly USMC. I am in the same boat. I am a vet of 2 services and I am a multiple combat vet (x4) and I have 10 years active And volunteered for the last 2 tours. A point system would be better. People willing to join and lay down their life should get some extra consideration but the extent at which we have served can vary greatly. There are good points to all preferences, however people can argue vaults with every single one of them. The system sux but hey its what we got. I will use it. just like people will use any other preference. I would like to think that people will hire me because of who I am not where I served. But hey its all who you know anyway.


----------



## billj

FYI -Massachusetts veterans preference has been upheld by the US Supreme Court (see Personnel Administrator of Mass. v. Feeney 1975)


----------



## jroberge

I'm not so sure if some of you non-vets know this, but if you havent figured it out, you should just sacrifice atleast bootcamp and MOS school and 90+ days activation to get your veterans preference, that right there takes ATLEAST 1 year to accomplish. prior trained military folk have a higher probability to complete the police academy and stick with the job. you do realize some people cannot pass the police academy right? so in essence those people who failed the academy are taking away jobs that non-flunkees could have.


----------



## EOD1

Hey mike I will take that bet. I doubt that there has been more support people KIA in OIF/OEF than Combat Arms MOS's. While Support personell have seen more action then they traditionally have in previous conflict I doubt that of the 1176 fatalities in OIF/OEF I doubt that more MP/ motor pool personnel have been killed. I mean everyone is getting killed over here I have been to in both OEF &amp; OIF it just a mess over here. So any one who is serving over here is sacrificing. the system sux and I am sure it could be better. However it is what we got.


----------



## EOD1

I am not saying you should only give vet prefrence to combat arms. I just don't agree with the previous state def of a vet. I feel that there has to be a better way or system. I get the briefs everyday, I am here. I get the numbers every day... I think that there has been more support people killed than traditionally, and even more so since the major offensive ops have stopped (mostly due to IED's and the 88m's moving vehicles) But to say that more people who serve in the support role have been killed in action as opposed to people who are in combat arms is not accurate. I looked for a while on line because u got me thinking. I only found number break down by units and time frames. I mean it sux for all of uss here from gen to pvt. But there is a difference between the mechanic who gets in a fire fight while going from one camp to another and the grunt out there assaulting, kicking down doors. In desert storm the unit that lost the most people was a reserve transpo unit from PA. the barracks were hit with a scud, it was the only casualties the unit suffered the whole conflict and they never had saw action after that. It sux for every one, NO ONE IS SERVING HIS/HER COUNTRY BETTER THAN ANY1 ELSE. BUT there are differences. You can actually argue the same thing between services. There are people in the navy w/ combat action ribbons who patroled of the coast of iraq. they have never even seen an iraqi. But they are working 18-20 hours aday to keep a ship afloat. I am proud to serve with every single american over here cause we all sacrifice. 

On second thought I don't wanna take your bet, I don't wanna take away from anyone one who has made the ultimate sacrifice for our country. 

hey mike what was it like to be a marine during the cold war? I was army before navy and I remember my PLT SGT saying that it was a better time when we had mother russia looming over us. of course that was before we had saddam and osama. there also wasn't anyone getting beheaded on tv. I am not trying to say that people how served and didn't have a war to fight should be penalized for it. like i said I went to bosnia, kosovo and kuwait and I didn't qualify for vetrans prefrence. But under the old system u just had to be in serving during a designated time frame u didn't have to deploy to the conflict. the people being activated for over 90 days (or is it 180 days?) to watch people take there shoes in the airport will get vet prefrence... there is a difference.


----------



## CarRamRod

I thought that the vet pref was given because the 1st gulf war was not considered to be over? They never closed the dates for it. I remember when some of the batteries were getting deployed to Kuwait in the late 90's on rotations.


----------



## EOD1

Yes Apparently the lack of a closing date for the gulf war says that I should have gotten vetran status, But I didn't. I was deployed to Kuwaitw/in 24 hours in 1996. Bosnia, &amp; kosovo... still no vet status. Gotta luv the Civil Circus!


----------



## billj

EOD1 @ Fri Oct 08 said:


> Yes Apparently the lack of a closing date for the gulf war says that I should have gotten vetran status, But I didn't. I was deployed to Kuwaitw/in 24 hours in 1996. Bosnia, & kosovo... still no vet status. Gotta luv the Civil Circus!


Thats impossible if you were on active duty. Take you DD 214 down to HRD and you will be a veteran


----------



## EOD1

Yeah I know this now, But i didn't know this then, i got a letter that said I was not qualified under the states defination of a vet. I wish I found this website back then. I didn't know much about the process back then, I was naive.


----------



## Mitpo62

I don't know if anyone realizes that Civil Service has changed the definition for a "veteran". The complete listing is found on HRD's website. It was effective August 2004. Now folks that served during peactime get the status. HRD must have been flooded with change forms!


----------



## billj

Mitpo62";p="51372 said:


> I don't know if anyone realizes that Civil Service has changed the definition for a "veteran". The complete listing is found on HRD's website. It was effective August 2004. Now folks that served during peactime get the status. HRD must have been flooded with change forms!


Unless your town has an age limit, then it wont even matter because it was the 80's when they all served.


----------



## km515

The change may not help for people trying to get on....but don't you get two points on promotional exams for being a vet?


----------



## billj

km515";p="51387 said:


> The change may not help for people trying to get on....but don't you get two points on promotional exams for being a vet?


Yes. Forgot about that.


----------



## redpara

I realize that this subject has indeed been beaten into a pulp. I do however feel the need to add two cents and clarify a point or two.

To go on a limb a bit, I think the Vet prefrence in hiring may be benifical. In most cases you get an individual who will adjust to the demands of police work. Someone who has "been around" a bit and may have seen some "stuff" your non-vet hasn't.

As far as allowing someone "make up" the civil service exam. Ill give an example for consideration; I'm currently deployed in Baghdad. Recently I watched two kids, probably 19 or 20, years old carry their buddy out of the back of a Bradley fighting vehicle, he was quite dead, left arm hanging off and most of the right side of his face blown away. That truma alone in my opinion gives them an entitlement to take the exam when it's offered. I simply feel that they have earned the right to be considered honorable enough to enter the profession and should be given due consideration. Many of these kids are seeing things you will never see, they cope with it remarkably well for the most part. 

And a post script on your statement on cooks. The spoons at my base are just as likley to be killed by the random mortar or rocket shot as I am. The face of war has changed in case you haven't watched the news lately.

Sorry gents, it's an emotional issue and difficutllt not to take personnaly.


----------



## EOD1

yeah red para, i agree things have changed. Which is something that should be considered. there is a way to make this sytem a little more fair, it'll never be close to perfect. like i said it should be based off of a few factors 1 of which is where u served. The fact remains that until us vets of this diffrent conflict(s) can raise enough stink to make people in politcs realize this, then now body will do anything. The days of in the rear w/ the gear are gone. All of us vets deserve a huge amounts of consideration. there is a huge difference between this global war on terrorism and the cold war era. I met some1 while in line @ CIF in 1998 who never in 5 years wore a brain bucket other than basic. we all serve in diffrent ways.


----------



## Dumptruck9

I am a VET, USMC active duty 4 years, and I have to somewhat agree, full blown preference over someone else is a little unfair. I do think that a few points on a test is reasonable however.

As far as the other issue of giving absentee testing to service members that cannot be home to take it, I also somewhat disagree. Please hear me out on this. The Civil Service Test is one that is given like clock work, every two years, no exceptions, unlike the State Police Exam. My first aspirations were to get on the State Police. I inquired about the exam as I was in my last year of service. I had to get to Boston to take it, no exceptions. Obviously I couldn't do that. Now the problem is the state has fallen into a serious financial problem and sat on the hiring of recruits to start a class for over a year after the test was given. So unlike the Civil Service exam, the State Police exam probably won't be given for another frickin decade or so because they've barely tapped into their list of candidates because of hiring freezes. That test is one that service members should be able to take in absentee form, for the simple reason being that if you miss one, you won't be able to take it for a long time, or whenever they feel like giving another one. To my understanding, it's not an every so often exam. They wait until the list is exhausted which usually takes 4 to 5 years.


----------



## Guest

The only thing I can say is as a former combat engineer(active duty) who served in Iraq for 15 months is, I dont even know how I survived Baghdad for 12 months and Karbala for another 2 1/2 months, the deployment was nuts. And yes it pisses me off that people activated for 180 in the reserves/NG get the same preferences as me. But we all signed up for the same thing. I did however score fairly low on the CS exam (77) because I just got home a couple of months ago from overseas and havent even settle'd down and let the culture shock wear off, I am just thankful for the preference and the fact i have already received the card to go in and be considered hired for my city. Which I am doing tomorrow morning! But I also want to thank all of the people who support their troops and those of you that are in LE and making it my dream to someday become a Police Officer :t:
and yes I know people who have been to either OIF or OEF and have not even fired a single shot


----------



## fjmas1976

PerforateYourArtery said:


> The only thing I can say is as a former combat engineer(active duty) who served in Iraq for 15 months is, I dont even know how I survived Baghdad for 12 months and Karbala for another 2 1/2 months, the deployment was nuts. And yes it pisses me off that people activated for 180 in the reserves/NG get the same preferences as me. But we all signed up for the same thing. I did however score fairly low on the CS exam (77) because I just got home a couple of months ago from overseas and havent even settle'd down and let the culture shock wear off, I am just thankful for the preference and the fact i have already received the card to go in and be considered hired for my city. Which I am doing tomorrow morning! But I also want to thank all of the people who support their troops and those of you that are in LE and making it my dream to someday become a Police Officer :t:
> and yes I know people who have been to either OIF or OEF and have not even fired a single shot


What city?


----------



## AFCOP

PerforateYourArtery said:


> The only thing I can say is as a former combat engineer(active duty) who served in Iraq for 15 months is, I dont even know how I survived Baghdad for 12 months and Karbala for another 2 1/2 months, the deployment was nuts. And yes it pisses me off that people activated for 180 in the reserves/NG get the same preferences as me. But we all signed up for the same thing. I did however score fairly low on the CS exam (77) because I just got home a couple of months ago from overseas and havent even settle'd down and let the culture shock wear off, I am just thankful for the preference and the fact i have already received the card to go in and be considered hired for my city. Which I am doing tomorrow morning! But I also want to thank all of the people who support their troops and those of you that are in LE and making it my dream to someday become a Police Officer :t:
> and yes I know people who have been to either OIF or OEF and have not even fired a single shot


Last time I checked people in the reserve and national guard deploy to the same places and duration as active duty personnel... As a matter of fact this summer, govenors of western states, were having trouble recalling guard troops to fight wildfires because they were deployed.... so easydoes it...

Also do you think it's fair that people get preferential treatment based on gender or minority group? 
I sure dont, you should be employed based on your fitness for the job... and the fact that you go the extra mile and serve your country, should benefit you...


----------



## Guest

This is one of those topics where most people can only agree to disagree. I will leave it at that.

for those of us that served our country I personally think we should get preference simply because of our experiences while deployed make us better suited for the job. And for those of you in a combat support roll, the hardship alone is worth the preference. The only people that will argue that are those that have no idea what we went through, and I dont know how many people I have talked to in my short amount of time being home think they do for whatever reasons.


----------



## MVS

I think Vets deserve points. However, as PerforateYourArtery stated we agree to disagree. Let's say candidate "A" get a 98 on the CS and candidate "B" gets a 75 on it. Because "B" has "Vet Pref." he goes right to the top. Now that is where I disagree. I think you (vets) should be given additional points (5 or 10) and you rank right into the appropriate ranking for your (total) score.

I believe anyone who serves deserves high praise. But like many others have stated before, for some of us non-vets for whatever reason did not/could not join. Because of this, we must be bumped from employment? I disagree.


----------



## wryman

If the MSP does it why can't the Veteran Service? Oops I mean the Civil Service.


----------



## DevilDog1775

wryman said:


> If the MSP does it why can't the Veteran Service? Oops I mean the Civil Service.


I'm sure there's an enlistment center in your town.........stop your bitching and go join. Then you can earn the Vet status instead of crying about not having it. :musicboo:


----------



## wryman

RPD931 said:


> I think Vets deserve points. However, as PerforateYourArtery stated we agree to disagree. Let's say candidate "A" get a 98 on the CS and candidate "B" gets a 75 on it. Because "B" has "Vet Pref." he goes right to the top. Now that is where I disagree. I think you (vets) should be given additional points (5 or 10) and you rank right into the appropriate ranking for your (total) score.
> 
> I believe anyone who serves deserves high praise. But like many others have stated before, for some of us non-vets for whatever reason did not/could not join. Because of this, we must be bumped from employment? I disagree.


:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## JoninNH

RPD931 said:


> I think Vets deserve points. However, as PerforateYourArtery stated we agree to disagree. Let's say candidate "A" get a 98 on the CS and candidate "B" gets a 75 on it. Because "B" has "Vet Pref." he goes right to the top. Now that is where I disagree. I think you (vets) should be given additional points (5 or 10) and you rank right into the appropriate ranking for your (total) score.
> 
> I believe anyone who serves deserves high praise. But like many others have stated before, for some of us non-vets for whatever reason did not/could not join. Because of this, we must be bumped from employment? I disagree.


:thumbdow: :thumbdow:


----------



## sempergumby

Can't we all get along????????????lol


----------



## DVET1979

Disabled Vet here- I scored in the mid 80's and I am number one on both the police and fire lists in my hometown. I knew way back when I was 18 years old how the civil circus system worked- back when they mailed you your rankings(the letter was quite lengthy for bigger cities) and that is one of the main reasons why I joined the Marines. It took me a long time, but now I have what is rightfully mine........


----------



## smd6169

Did you also intentionally "disable" your self for further preference?


DVET1979 said:


> Disabled Vet here- I scored in the mid 80's and I am number one on both the police and fire lists in my hometown. I knew way back when I was 18 years old how the civil circus system worked- back when they mailed you your rankings(the letter was quite lengthy for bigger cities) and that is one of the main reasons why I joined the Marines. It took me a long time, but now I have what is rightfully mine........


----------



## AFCOP

smd6169 said:


> Did you also intentionally "disable" your self for further preference?


Damn-it now why didn't I think of that??


----------



## soxrock75

smd6169 said:


> Did you also intentionally "disable" your self for further preference?


Those of us that know DVET1979 think that he had more of a _*mental*_ disability than a physical one resulting from a bad Humvee crash!!! 8-O

Just kidding, I am proud to consider DVET1979 one of my friends and am grateful to the sacrifices he has made. He deserves to be #1 on his town's list. Good Luck DVET1979!!!!


----------



## Guest

RPD931 said:


> I believe anyone who serves deserves high praise. But like many others have stated before, for some of us non-vets for whatever reason did not/could not join. Because of this, we must be bumped from employment? I disagree.


Why couldn't you enlist? If you were disqualified for the military, you certainly should be disqualified for the police department.

Instead of listening to Mick Jagger music and bad-mouthing your country, you should have sucked it up for a few years after high school, and reaped the rewards for the rest of your life.


----------



## smd6169

I wish him the best of luck...I am sure he is a stand up guy and will do well in the process....Comment was meant with humor.



soxrock75 said:


> Those of us that know DVET1979 think that he had more of a _*mental*_ disability than a physical one resulting from a bad Humvee crash!!! 8-O
> 
> Just kidding, I am proud to consider DVET1979 one of my friends and am grateful to the sacrifices he has made. He deserves to be #1 on his town's list. Good Luck DVET1979!!!!


----------



## MVS

Delta784 said:


> Why couldn't you enlist? If you were disqualified for the military, you certainly should be disqualified for the police department.
> 
> Instead of listening to Mick Jagger music and bad-mouthing your country, you should have sucked it up for a few years after high school, and reaped the rewards for the rest of your life.


Who said I disqualified? And I am a town Police Officer. I opted not join the service. It's that simple. I was an only child to a single mother that did not want me to go, so I respected her wishes.

I don't like Mick Jagger. And when/where did I EVER bad-mouth my country? But thats alright... feel free to insult and bash me all you want, you must be the better man in this.


----------



## swimfins

EOD1 said:


> Yes Apparently the lack of a closing date for the gulf war says that I should have gotten vetran status, But I didn't. I was deployed to Kuwaitw/in 24 hours in 1996. Bosnia, & kosovo... still no vet status. Gotta luv the Civil Circus!


How do you not have vet status? I thought you said you were a vet of 2 services? Were you a reservist?
I am not trying to incite you, just curious.


----------



## sempergumby

swimfins said:


> How do you not have vet status? I thought you said you were a vet of 2 services? Were you a reservist?
> I am not trying to incite you, just curious.


EOD do you have the fire watch ribbon ?


----------



## mpd61

Ah Swimfin and Gumby,

EOD1 doesnt have vet status yet cuz he's finishing up post-PEB Disability for service-connected-disability. Don't worry though. I'm sure he'll be happy to use his DVET status when he get back to the commonwealth, He did earn it, trust me.................
[-X

Hey EOD1. Can you post one or two more of those cool dive pics from the Gulf? You remember the ones where you were sweeping for live demolitions? Thanks


----------



## DVET1979

Thank You SOXROCK AND SMD. LET ME KNOW YOUR T SHIRT SIZES


----------



## Dogma20001

My 2 cents. I'm a vet and I disagree with the complete preference. 2 points, sure. I volunteered to join cause I did shitty in high school at the time. It was either join up or pump gas. No brainer there. I don't feel like I'm owed anything cause I'm not. Lets keep this in perspective, most of the people I served with were in the military for the same reason as me, we screwed around in Highschool and limited our own choices. This in no way entitles us to have a LE job. I went to Iraq cause that was the job I signed up to do. No one forced me. All these "I fought for our country I'm owed a LE job" Vets are showing their true reasons for joining the military, the preference. Thats fine, just don't bitch when a war breaks out. You have no problem taking the benefits and college tuition and the paycheck, so shut up. To those Vets who joined to serve for the sake of our Country, not the preference, God Bless. But these jobs should go to the people who are the most qualified candidates.


----------



## Guest

RPD931 said:


> I don't like Mick Jagger. And when/where did I EVER bad-mouth my country? But thats alright... feel free to insult and bash me all you want, you must be the better man in this.


Dude.....it was a joke. Didn't you ever see the movie _An Officer and a Gentleman?_


----------



## smd6169

VERY, VERY well put! 


Dogma20001 said:


> My 2 cents. I'm a vet and I disagree with the complete preference. 2 points, sure. I volunteered to join cause I did shitty in high school at the time. It was either join up or pump gas. No brainer there. I don't feel like I'm owed anything cause I'm not. Lets keep this in perspective, most of the people I served with were in the military for the same reason as me, we screwed around in Highschool and limited our own choices. This in no way entitles us to have a LE job. I went to Iraq cause that was the job I signed up to do. No one forced me. All these "I fought for our country I'm owed a LE job" Vets are showing their true reasons for joining the military, the preference. Thats fine, just don't bitch when a war breaks out. You have no problem taking the benefits and college tuition and the paycheck, so shut up. To those Vets who joined to serve for the sake of our Country, not the preference, God Bless. But these jobs should go to the people who are the most qualified candidates.


----------



## mpd61

Dogma20001 said:


> Lets keep this in perspective, *most of the people I served with were in the military for the same reason as me, we screwed around in Highschool and limited our own choices.* This in no way entitles us to have a LE job. I went to Iraq cause that was the job I signed up to do. No one forced me. *All these "I fought for our country I'm owed a LE job" Vets are showing their true reasons for joining the military, the preference. Thats fine, just don't bitch when a war breaks out. *You have no problem taking the benefits and college tuition and the paycheck, so shut up. To those Vets who joined to serve for the sake of our Country, not the preference, God Bless. But these jobs should go to the people who are the most qualified candidates.


Jeezus!

Are you O.K.? I'm sorry you feel like you served with so many people who didn't live up to their potential and had to join the military to keep out of jail, or from at least embarassing themselves. As for the rest of the "Bitchin Vets" I don't really see any here bitchin except you. Take a chill pill buddy!
:doctor:


----------



## AFCOP

mpd61 said:


> Jeezus!
> 
> Are you O.K.? I'm sorry you feel like you served with so many people who didn't live up to their potential and had to join the military to keep out of jail, or from at least embarassing themselves. As for the rest of the "Bitchin Vets" I don't really see any here bitchin except you. Take a chill pill buddy!
> :doctor:


AMEN!


----------



## 94c

I am not a vet. 
The rules say veteran's preference so everyone plays by the rule.
If you chose not to join the services then keep trying. Study harder than the next guy.

If all else fails, take your ball and go home. The bitchin and moanin isn't going to change things.

While we are on the subject, I'm not fond of minority preference either. But those are the rules and police work is filled with them. Move on.


----------



## smd6169

As far as I know, no minority (1 for 1) rule in Boston anymore :jump: . Repealed in late 2004. 


94c said:


> I am not a vet.
> The rules say veteran's preference so everyone plays by the rule.
> If you chose not to join the services then keep trying. Study harder than the next guy.
> 
> If all else fails, take your ball and go home. The bitchin and moanin isn't going to change things.
> 
> While we are on the subject, I'm not fond of minority preference either. But those are the rules and police work is filled with them. Move on.


----------



## Dogma20001

SMpd, I'm bitchin huh. Whether you like it or not what I said is the truth. As far as people not living up to their potential. YUP, military is full of them. Some grow up and make nices lives for themselves, and the rest usually bitch about being owed. Been there, scene it. Put it this way, I would prefer to have a Doctor who did great in medical school than the schlump who just barely passed his boards. I would rather have a cop who can comprehend basic testing(cause the Civil Service test is a no brainer) with a score in the 90's than someone with a 70 but has Vet status. If you can't do good on a civil service test, I wouldn't want to see this person trying to enforce laws. This arguement can go on for ever and ever, especially when people use emotions instead of basic common sense. Done with it


----------



## Guest

I am a vet and am thankful for the preference but I also think it should be 5 points or something and not ultimate preference. I think it's sad that some non-vets look at it like CS is just giving us preference because they are paying us back for our service. I thought it was because military personnel are supposed to already have integrity and leadership qualities instilled in them. Discipline can be debated because all of us who have served know that not everyone pulled their own weight when they weren't being watched by the man. Just my 2 cents.......


----------



## fjmas1976

Dogma20001 said:


> My 2 cents. I'm a vet and I disagree with the complete preference. 2 points, sure. I volunteered to join cause I did shitty in high school at the time. It was either join up or pump gas. No brainer there. I don't feel like I'm owed anything cause I'm not. Lets keep this in perspective, most of the people I served with were in the military for the same reason as me, we screwed around in Highschool and limited our own choices. This in no way entitles us to have a LE job. I went to Iraq cause that was the job I signed up to do. No one forced me. All these "I fought for our country I'm owed a LE job" Vets are showing their true reasons for joining the military, the preference. Thats fine, just don't bitch when a war breaks out. You have no problem taking the benefits and college tuition and the paycheck, so shut up. To those Vets who joined to serve for the sake of our Country, not the preference, God Bless. But these jobs should go to the people who are the most qualified candidates.


Ok....you are against Vet's preference, huh? What is your status with Civil Service? I bet you're listed as a Vet you f---ing hypocrite :up_yours:


----------



## swimfins

This topic is very personal. I think everyone has a right to bitch. But Fortunately for those of us who are Vets we have less to bitch about, especially Vets that scored high.
I actually was going to college to get my degree in criminal justice, ran out of money for school, joined the Navy because I knew it would help two fold; first on the civil service exam and second The Navy College Fund (which is now paying my way through school to get my CJ degree).

I also would like to say that I have lived in a dorm room and have lived in the barracks....There are so many similarities its absurd. I could make generalizations and say I would rather have a grunt by my side anyday, which I would if I had to make that decision. And its all because There are three things you don really find in a dorm room honor, courage, commitment. HOO-Yah!!!!!


----------



## Dogma20001

fjmas1976 said:


> Ok....you are against Vet's preference, huh? What is your status with Civil Service? I bet you're listed as a Vet you f---ing hypocrite :up_yours:


 Nope, not listed as a Vet. Just graduated DOC and I was the first name listed after Vets as of the May standings. Semper Fi and shut your pie hole. I don't need the preference to do good on the tests. Come to think of it though, I probably should of used them for the State Police test, I only got a 96. I could of bumped to 98. Oh Well, didn't need them anyways. :BNANA: t: :beer:


----------



## smd6169

All 96's were called for the Staties.....



Dogma20001 said:


> Nope, not listed as a Vet. Just graduated DOC and I was the first name listed after Vets as of the May standings. Semper Fi and shut your pie hole. I don't need the preference to do good on the tests. Come to think of it though, I probably should of used them for the State Police test, I only got a 96. I could of bumped to 98. Oh Well, didn't need them anyways. :BNANA: t: :beer:


----------



## Dogma20001

SMd, what I meant was I didn't need to use the 2 points to get the letter. Already done with the process.


----------



## smd6169

On your side on VET status. Which process are you done with, State Police or DOC?



Dogma20001 said:


> SMd, what I meant was I didn't need to use the 2 points to get the letter. Already done with the process.


----------



## fjmas1976

Dogma20001 said:


> Nope, not listed as a Vet. Just graduated DOC and I was the first name listed after Vets as of the May standings. Semper Fi and shut your pie hole. I don't need the preference to do good on the tests. Come to think of it though, I probably should of used them for the State Police test, I only got a 96. I could of bumped to 98. Oh Well, didn't need them anyways. :BNANA: t: :beer:


 :finger2:


----------



## Dogma20001

Fjmas, was that you bitching in the Herald on page 7 about trying to get a Court Officers job. :up_yours:


----------



## Dogma20001

Smd, already working for the DOC. As far as the State Police, done with the process, had to appeal a background and won, just waiting for the letter to start(hopefully)


----------



## fjmas1976

Dogma20001 said:


> Fjmas, was that you bitching in the Herald on page 7 about trying to get a Court Officers job. :up_yours:


You suprised me here.......didn't think you read anything besides Woman's Day magazine :321:


----------



## smd6169

I was with the DOC for 5 years. Class 245 (1996) Where you working out of?



Dogma20001 said:


> Smd, already working for the DOC. As far as the State Police, done with the process, had to appeal a background and won, just waiting for the letter to start(hopefully)


----------



## Dogma20001

Fjmas, your right, it was Good HouseKeeping, I was looking for the article on "How to stop children from Whining". Obvioulsy it doesn't work cause you still are.


----------



## fjmas1976

Dogma20001 said:


> Fjmas, your right, it was Good HouseKeeping, I was looking for the article on "How to stop children from Whining". Obvioulsy it doesn't work cause you still are.


Oh man.......you got me there! That was pretty weak........nice try though :huh:


----------



## DevilDog1775

Dogma20001 said:


> Fjmas, your right, it was Good HouseKeeping, I was looking for the article on "How to stop children from Whining". Obvioulsy it doesn't work cause you still are.


From what I have noticed you are one of the biggest whiners here Dogma........unbunch your panties and suck it up. Let this topic die and move on..........
SEMPER FI FJMAS:t:


----------



## JoninNH

Nothing. Let's leave it that way.


----------



## Mongo

Southside said:


> I didn't hear that....Where did this info come from? Solid source or a friend of a friend. If it is true, I will say that it should not happen. I have no problem with Vets....My dad and grandfather were both vets....but if you are in the military, war and active service is part of the beast. If you are there, you shouldn't be able to take the test until the next one comes up when you come home. This is my opinion, please do not take it personal.


This is the problem with alot of people in this country.(I have no problems with Vets)
That is the most embarrising statement an american could ever make.Let alone a uniformed american that swore an allegiance to his country to protect it and serve it.
Show your Dad and Grandfather these statements and hear what they say. We are at war pal this ain't no political BS. 80% of these people in the armed services have unborn babies,infants,toddlers,and children.They have finanancial diffuculties too. You think it is just a career choice to be in the armed services.You think that what they are doing in a time of war compares to be the same as law enforcement here in the U.S. Uneducated,unexperienced. assumption. War is not a movie,or a book. If you haven't experienced it then don't make foolish comments.Every day you should thank not only your familie members that are Vets,but a fellow officer,neighbor,freind ,or stranger. You bet your ass they should get a preference. In every step of life when they return. Walk a mile in their shoes and then tell me different.


----------



## mustangmarc13

This has to be the most interesting and heated debate on this board (besides the "Are Campus Police Real Police?" debate

My perspective? I wouldnt change a thing about the process. Think of it like this. I worked for a company that wouldnt accept any candidates (no matter how well you interviewed or performed) into the management program without a relevant bachelors degree. Now, there are probably some very qualified people with HS diplomas and Associates with great experience, skill set, etc. that never even get past the first handshake, because they dont have that B.A. or B.S. on their resume. It may not be the fairest policy, but its clearly stated and enforced across the board. People understand, you want in, get your bachelors however you can. 
Now, everyone knows (or hopefully should thanks to this great forum) that your best bet to get on any civil service job (parole, corrections, police, fire, fed LE) is to be a veteran. Why? Because veterans get preference. Why should they get preference? Because they already have two qualities that will serve them well in civil service.
1. They are prepared. Physically and mentally. Because of their training, they are prepared for the academy, they are prepared for the marksmanship, they are prepared for the uniform, they are prepared for the chain of command, etc. etc. 
2. They volunteered to serve our country bravely and proudly, to serve and protect fellow Americans and other citizens of the world. Guess what they will be doing in their civil service job?

So non-vets have three options in my eyes. Join the service (hopefully for the right reasons, which are unique to the individual), move to another state and take your chances, or nail the goddamn civil service test. They do take non-vets when they get near the end of a list, so make sure you get 99-100!!!
I will keep my background out of this for now, but i also want to say i respect everyone's point of view so far, and love the fact that we have a right to declare these views.


----------



## co2

Veterans should get preference. Reason is its a way to thank you for youre service. Some people say it is not fair. Alot of veterans do have a tough time getting a job after there service. So this is one way to make it a little easier for them.So i think it is fair for them. And to all the veterans i would like to say THANK YOU.


----------



## billj

ENOUGH already....if youve been on this board for more than 10 minutes you'd know this topic has been beaten to death over and over again...... there nothing new that could possibly be discussed on this topic


----------



## JoninNH

Jesus... please, some one lock the damm thread.


----------



## Macop

Sorry just beacause u r a vet does not mean you should get absolution. And yes there are vets that have no buisness being cops. Hell for that matter there are cops that have no buisness being cops. You should not have to join the Military to get on, although it is honorable and commendable to serve. I actually have been toying with the idea of joining the reserves, but if I do its my choice, no one is putting a gun to my head.


----------



## EOD1

please lock this damn thread. if i have to read 1 more "no one made you join and you shouldn't get pref but thank you" bull shit i'm gonna shit purple twinkies.


----------



## DVET1979

USMCMP5811 said:


> I'm with Jake on this one, But, I'll be shitting Neon Orange ding dongs!


I think I'll be shitting ocean blue ho ho's


----------



## firefighter39

Southside said:


> PBC,
> 
> *.....My first priority is getting on so I can support my family and do what I have always wanted to do. .*
> 
> 
> 
> It is attitudes like your that have f'ed up this country - How bout your 1st priority being the USA, your hometown etc... Being in public service (police, fire, ems, military) is not about doing what YOU always wanted to do, it is about serving a greater good.
> 
> Now stop your bitching, grow a set of balls and join the military... Oh, and you can support a family quiet nicely on military pay and benefits so stop hiding behind your wife and child!!


----------



## firefighter39

Southside said:


> PBC,
> 
> .....My first priority is getting on so I can support my family and do what I have always wanted to do.


----------



## JoninNH

> I think I'll be shitting ocean blue ho ho's


I'm with Ken but I'll be shitting Lime Green yodels.


----------



## sempergumby

I'm with any one that shits any color other than brown black or olive drab. And I will be shitting golden funny bones.


----------



## sempergumby

NO NO I fu$K PINK POODLES.


----------



## Irish Wampanoag

Mongo said:


> This is the problem with alot of people in this country.(I have no problems with Vets)
> That is the most embarrising statement an american could ever make.Let alone a uniformed american that swore an allegiance to his country to protect it and serve it.
> Show your Dad and Grandfather these statements and hear what they say. We are at war pal this ain't no political BS. 80% of these people in the armed services have unborn babies,infants,toddlers,and children.They have finanancial diffuculties too. You think it is just a career choice to be in the armed services.You think that what they are doing in a time of war compares to be the same as law enforcement here in the U.S. Uneducated,unexperienced. assumption. War is not a movie,or a book. If you haven't experienced it then don't make foolish comments.Every day you should thank not only your familie members that are Vets,but a fellow officer,neighbor,freind ,or stranger. You bet your ass they should get a preference. In every step of life when they return. Walk a mile in their shoes and then tell me different.


I would agree with you however your Dad and your grandfather actually had to fight in battle to get "VET STATUS" now all you have to do patrol the coast of Hawaii or Boston to get it!!!


----------



## Mongo

Nothing is perfect. You are going to get vetrans that may have never fired a shot or never have been under fire. The mere potential for those two things often gives them combat vetran's status.Which in turn gives them vetran's preference. It is what it is.Combat Vet or non Combat Vet both are better canidates for LE than a non Vet. Marine Corps Vet is a better canidate for LE and every other elevated position of stature in the human race.

*SEMPER FI DO OR DIE OOOOOOOOOOOHHHRAHHHHH !!!!!*


----------



## Mongo

I will see where I'm gonna get in trouble this year.

Just sent off a young brother to kick some ass and take names in country. I was hoping he would be my back up if I act up on 11/10.

Just gonna have to depend on the other old guys like me.


----------



## Macop

Combat Vet or non Combat Vet both are better canidates for LE than a non Vet. Marine Corps Vet is a better canidate for LE and every other elevated position of stature in the human race.


BULLSHIT


----------



## Mongo

Macop said:


> Combat Vet or non Combat Vet both are better canidates for LE than a non Vet. Marine Corps Vet is a better canidate for LE and every other elevated position of stature in the human race.
> 
> BULLSHIT


Then why did you feel so compelled to rewrite it Squid.:baby21:


----------



## Macop

Squid! is that the best I'm gonna get?


----------



## Mongo

Macop said:


> Squid! is that the best I'm gonna get?


Just a guess, but if you don't know what I mean you must not be one.:baby21:


----------

