# Baker supports cops over flaggers



## topcop14

Earlier, the candidates clashed over different aspects of public employment.

Baker said he opposes using civilian flaggers on road construction jobs because he'd rather have police officers for the same money.

Governor Candidates Debate Mosque, Flaggers - wbztv.com

He already had my vote but this makes me feel a little better about my choice.


----------



## CJIS

Someone left a comment in the section cheering for Dumbass Deval. The Stupid bastard used his Email Addy From work [email protected]

Think anyone at the DOT would care if employees are leaving comments on news sites and not doing work?


----------



## Bloodhound

topcop14 said:


> Baker said he opposes using civilian flaggers on road construction jobs because he'd rather have police officers _*for the same money*_.


Just keep in mind that he has also been quoted as saying if there is an actual cost savings, he is in favor of flaggers instead of police officers. I don't have a link in front of me at the moment, but I'll track it down.


----------



## Guest

mtc said:


> Is it possible he knew the argument of "cost savings" was bullshit when he made that statement?


Not if he's playing both sides like a typical politician... He can make this statement now to get cop support... then magically 'find' significant cost savings down the line.

Remember the old line about politicians: "They'll doublecross that bridge when they come to it." LMAO


----------



## bok

During the WBZ AM radio debate Baker stated, and I am paraphrasing, that he would prefer the flaggers hourly wage be lowered to $20.- thus obfuscating the police officer aspect. I interpretated his political pretext as pro flagger for a cost savings and negative toward police officer detail. Understanding Baker's response is somewhat reading between the lines however he stayed clear of fully endorsing police details. That was my take, and if you have to interpret - watch out !


----------



## Guest

I totally agree with u bok. He us bottom line fiscal conaervative that woul b pro flagger

Sent from my FroyoEris using Tapatalk


----------



## SinePari

Bullocks. I think they are political footballs that will be punted from the governor to the state legislature every chance they get. At least Baker is telling you up front: savings over labor. But better to have the Devil that you know...

Less detail work means we'll have to use more aggressive bargaining for better wages that we've been shunned for the last few years in favor of keeping the Quinn Bill and details. I'm not pro-flagger, but I friggin' hate everything about road details. Pay guys a decent base wage that is commensurate with other states' with similar costs of living. Who the hell WANTS to work 88.5 hours per week?


----------



## Guest

SinePari said:


> Bullocks. I think they are political footballs that will be punted from the governor to the state legislature every chance they get. At least Baker is telling you up front: savings over labor. But better to have the Devil that you know...
> 
> Less detail work means we'll have to use more aggressive bargaining for better wages that we've been shunned for the last few years in favor of keeping the Quinn Bill and details. I'm not pro-flagger, but I friggin' hate everything about road details. Pay guys a decent base wage that is commensurate with other states' with similar costs of living. Who the hell WANTS to work 88.5 hours per week?


This.


----------



## Mad-Dog24

These assholes will say anything right now to get our support. I wouldn't wipe my ass with a Massachusetts politician. Baker is well known for being anti-union, and has already talked about a hiring freeze and a payroll freeze for State employees. My guess would be he will go after pensions next. Deval has, in effect, put the MSP in a hiring freeze already by having ZERO RTT's during his tenure. This guy Baker is not the answer. Next debate, the best we coppers can hope for, is a meteor strike on the building.


----------



## OfficerObie59

topcop14 said:


> He already had my vote but this makes me feel a little better about my choice.


Ditto, though whether he actually does it...that goes w/out saying.


bok said:


> During the WBZ AM radio debate Baker stated, and I am paraphrasing, that he would prefer the flaggers hourly wage be lowered to $20.- thus obfuscating the police officer aspect. I interpretated his political pretext as pro flagger for a cost savings and negative toward police officer detail. Understanding Baker's response is somewhat reading between the lines however he stayed clear of fully endorsing police details. That was my take, and if you have to interpret - watch out !


Exactly.

Keep in mind that even if you grant him that he's telling the truth, his position is extremely nuanced with a number of unspoken caveats. What he's saying is that as long as flagmen ar taking in $53.50/hour, he would rather have a cop there. However, if you think the first thing he's gonna do is start using cops--instead of trying to lower the flag wage--you're mistaken.

Remember, people would rather see flagmen over us out there no matter what they're getting paid. People call up Deval's "Ask the Governor" show all the time to ask where they can see the flagmen--who make just as much (and often much more) than we do.

What it comes down to is whether Baker has the cojones to make the unpopular but more common sense decision to put cops out there if the rate for flagmen remains the same.


----------



## Guest

Maybe the fact that Deval was "harassed" by the Milton cops when he was little boy explains way he hates cops today. It's kind of funny that he bought a home it the same town that he was picked on.


----------



## lofu

I thought that quote was quite telling. I always assumed he had an axe to grind and now we know why. He was allegedly "harassed by the MPD" and that's why he supports the mosque at Ground Zero? WTF? How does that make any sense?

Furthermore, its been proven time and time again that highly educated people have less racially motivated bias so shouldn't this be yet another argument for Quinn?


----------



## GARDA

Mad-Dog24 said:


> These assholes will say anything right now to get our support. I wouldn't wipe my ass with a Massachusetts politician. Baker is well known for being anti-union, and has already talked about a hiring freeze and a payroll freeze for State employees. *My guess would be he will go after pensions next.* Deval has, in effect, put the MSP in a hiring freeze already by having ZERO RTT's during his tenure. This guy Baker is not the answer. *Next debate, the best we coppers can hope for, is a meteor strike on the building*.


Charlie Baker for Governor 2010

I just listened to a co-worker admonish another the other day over his intention to vote Baker. He said that it was his Pension Reform Plan for state workers that was the vote-killer for him.

The Mad-Dog24 meteor scenario sounds good to me as well right about now...


----------



## topcop14

GARDA said:


> Charlie Baker for Governor 2010
> 
> I just listened to a co-worker admonish another the other day over his intention to vote Baker. He said that it was his Pension Reform Plan for state workers that was the vote-killer for him.
> 
> The Mad-Dog24 meteor scenario sounds good to me as well right about now...


The pension situation is a big shit sandwich and we are all going to take a big bite. The fact is the public pension system is nothing but a legal ponzi scheme and if something is not done we wont get any pension. Lets face it the system is broken and the system many of us retire under is not going to be anything like what we have now.


----------



## Lost

CJIS said:


> Someone left a comment in the section cheering for Dumbass Deval. The Stupid bastard used his Email Addy From work [email protected]
> 
> Think anyone at the DOT would care if employees are leaving comments on news sites and not doing work?


CJIS, how about a government employee posting his political sympathy and identifying himself as a g worker???

Everyone wants to jump on the Baker bandwagon so quick. If you buy into the allegation that the screwed up Big Rig funding was his fault, you can conclude that he will neither lay off cops or get rid of pensions. He just will put off funding them for 8 years.

What a joke. Patrick said 1000 cops, but instead we've seen layoffs. Same logic, Baker saying cops over flagmen means that the bearded wonder will be walking into your PD as the new SGT soon...

Right now, my vote is writing in Mickey Mouse.


----------



## mr. advisor

This guy Baker is full of it, his story has changed on this topic many of times originaly he was saying he supported a mix of flaggers and police Where the challengers to Governor Patrick stand - The Boston Globe
This guy Baker is just as bad as Deval. The candidate that has been the most pro-police from the start is Cahill and he has no chance. For some of you who believe that Baker is our savior he may screw us even worse than Deval.


----------



## MetrowestPD

mr. advisor said:


> This guy Baker is full of it, his story has changed on this topic many of times originaly he was saying he supported a mix of flaggers and police Where the challengers to Governor Patrick stand - The Boston Globe
> This guy Baker is just as bad as Deval. The candidate that has been the most pro-police from the start is Cahill and he has no chance. For some of you who believe that Baker is our savior he may screw us even worse than Deval.


Are you reading the same story. You must have it out for Baker, because what he said then is exactly what he is saying now, he would rather have civilian flaggers for a reduced rate, but if your going to pay them the same use police.

Baker is not the end-all-be-all by any means, but I will take him over Deval anyday. Deval keeps toughting the money saved with civilian flaggers knowing the prevailing wage law has them paid the same. He touts that there is no hit to public safety with the civilian flaggers, but you have level 3 sex offenders holding the stop signs; and how many detail cops have made the news making arrests. Why do you think Boston and most other towns still want the police, because they get public safety service paid for by the utilities.

Deval says there is no place to go for the $$$ other than to cut public saftey or education. How about welfare reform and fraud enforcement of the abusers of welfare. Only Republican Governors have presented welfare reform. How about illegal immigration checks at every level. Return the authority to the MSP to investigate them. Deny any taxpayer funded services to them. Remember Deval wants them to have licenses and health insurance.

Deval is *absolutely* no friend to police, in his 4 years what positive thing has he done for us. Baker may be as bad, but he can't be worse than what we have lost the past 4 years.

Pension reform is coming one way or another, I hate to say. I believe many of us will be grandfathered with the old system, but I do believe new hires will have it worse no matter who gets elected.

Finally, Baker in no way is trying to appease us (police), we are a small minority, the minions are against us so why would he try to appease us. Also, he has seen the demonstrations against Deval he knows the vast majority aren't voting his way.


----------



## pahapoika

how about a "write-in" vote for the meteor ? :shades_smile:


----------



## jeepster

The governor's race is a no win situation due to the current fiscal situation, along with voter anger and the propaganda fed to the average citizen by the media that all cops make over a hundred grand, etc. None of the candidates will come out and fully support Quinn or police details. Basically you have a race made up of the old adage of who is "The lesser of three evils". Patrick could care less about our needs to feed our families or pay a mortgage as proven by he and the Beacon Hill cronies when they under funded Quinn and allowed the Flagger legislation to pass. Patrick is more concerned with his left wing agender of funding questionable entitlement programs. Baker may not further attack police pay, but it appears evident that pension reform will contiue. Baker also stated he is all for bypassing collective bargaining in allowing municipalities to manage their healthcare benefits which is anti-union. Cahill may appear more pro-police, but he is not new to Beacon Hill and would most likely continue the "business as usual" mentality of politics. I also believe Cahill is running as a spoiler to split the independent vote to allow Patrick to squeak a win in November. The bottom line is Patrick needs to be defeated and if it means voting for Baker then so be it.


----------



## SinePari

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2I2mK_3_ns"]YouTube - Corrosion Of Conformity - Vote With A Bullet[/nomedia]


----------



## mr. advisor

MetrowestPD said:


> Are you reading the same story. You must have it out for Baker, because what he said then is exactly what he is saying now, he would rather have civilian flaggers for a reduced rate, but if your going to pay them the same use police.
> 
> Baker is not the end-all-be-all by any means, but I will take him over Deval anyday. Deval keeps toughting the money saved with civilian flaggers knowing the prevailing wage law has them paid the same. He touts that there is no hit to public safety with the civilian flaggers, but you have level 3 sex offenders holding the stop signs; and how many detail cops have made the news making arrests. Why do you think Boston and most other towns still want the police, because they get public safety service paid for by the utilities.
> 
> Deval says there is no place to go for the $$$ other than to cut public saftey or education. How about welfare reform and fraud enforcement of the abusers of welfare. Only Republican Governors have presented welfare reform. How about illegal immigration checks at every level. Return the authority to the MSP to investigate them. Deny any taxpayer funded services to them. Remember Deval wants them to have licenses and health insurance.
> 
> Deval is *absolutely* no friend to police, in his 4 years what positive thing has he done for us. Baker may be as bad, but he can't be worse than what we have lost the past 4 years.
> 
> Pension reform is coming one way or another, I hate to say. I believe many of us will be grandfathered with the old system, but I do believe new hires will have it worse no matter who gets elected.
> 
> Finally, Baker in no way is trying to appease us (police), we are a small minority, the minions are against us so why would he try to appease us. Also, he has seen the demonstrations against Deval he knows the vast majority aren't voting his way.


Listen to what this man is saying. Baker has said that he wants to make a state law placing all public employees into a health care system. This would destroy our collective bargaining when it comes to health insurance and have us paying more and receiving less coverage. I don't know about you but a year from now I don't want to be paying $300.00 a week on a family plan with 50% less coverage than I use to have. If you don't believe this you better recognize where he has come from and what he's about. This man was CEO of Harvard Pilgrim. So you better believe he has been bought and paid for by the health insurance lobbyist and is with great certainty going to put more money into their pockets and take more out of ours.
There is also pension reform which he is going right along with Deval on, and as I stated before the issue of flaggers/police. This guy also wanted the Boston city council to vote against the fire fighters arbitration raise. This man is as anti union as one gets. I don't have it out for Baker I have just been listening to what the man says and I realize that I'm not going to sleep any better kicking the devil out of my house and then inviting his brother to stay. Some of us want to believe so bad that this man is for us out of our hatred for Deval. That is why we're ready to do back flips when he said cops over flaggers, but as some of my more in-depth friends on here have pointed out he is clearly blowing smoke up our a$$. I have to agree with "LOST" on this one my vote is with Mickey Mouse.


----------



## rg1283

I liked Baker in the beginning because of his ideas to fix the health care plan. Baker is no friends of the State Employee.. he was the brain child behind a lot of state agency budget cuts and facility closures in the early 90s.

Cahill seems a lot more down to earth and knows the financial problems and actually openly talks about adding more police officers.. Then again so did Deval... 

At the end of the day short of a miracle. Deval will probably win unless Cahill drops out of the race.

Either way things can't get much worse then they really are. The sad truth of the matter is I don't think any Calvary will be coming to save the cash strapped agencies anytime soon.


----------



## Lights-Out!

This guy worries me. Overall I think the guy will do good for the state, but for me personally and many others this guy might be worse than Deval. I know I want Deval out just as much as many of you, but putting Baker in could be just as bad or even worse. Baker has listed the 5 things he will do once in office. Troopers, CO's and all other state employees should check this out and keep it in mind.

Link: *BAKER OUTLINES FIRST DAYS IN OFFICE IF ELECTED

*This election is going to come down to who is going to be the lesser evil.


----------



## CJIS

pahapoika said:


> how about a "write-in" vote for the meteor ? :shades_smile:


More like Pray for the meteor


----------



## cj3441

Voting for Deval is like dating an ugly chick, Baker is her fat friend. Just have a few drinks and do what causes the least pain.


----------



## Lost

Here's the reality. The economy sucks around the country. You've got governments faulting on bonds, cities that are bouncing checks and there's no easy solution. It's the new world order- that which was once bulletproof is no longer infallible. Regardless of having to work 88.5 hours to make your payments, $70k +bennies and training is a hard pill to swallow for any politician trying to show signs of improvement. After all, there's not enough money for welfare programs, let alone public safety! 

It happened in NY in the late 90's and early 2000's. The NYPD and FDNY were (always have been) dramatically underpaid. Giuliani cleaned up NY on the backs of the street cop, who in many cases qualified for public assistance himself. He took the credit, and said screw the cop. He gambled that the public wanted clean streets, not happy cops and firemen For a while this worked out well. Starting pay for NYC cops- upper $20s. Think about that for a disproportionate wage. 

Giuliani eventually had a huge group of supporters of his Congressional run- mostly FDNY and NYPD who figured if he won, he would be far away from them and no longer the Mayor. 

Where was the outrage over that pay? Over his stealing the limelight for their hard work, and screwing them at the same time? And although he was able to steer the nation through 9/11, and even wore the famous FDNYPD hats, the guys I know never forgot the screwing he gave them. 

The contract issues lingered well into Bloomberg's days, and it was only when it became completely counter productive did anything change. (Imagine an academy class of 500, running constantly. During each academy, maybe 750 officers would leave for other PD's/retirement).

I know I may be preaching to the choir here, but don't discount these men and what they are saying/what the have done. You are nothing more than a line item on the budget to them. They are not anti police, they are anti police salary and benefit expense (unless it's their nephew), and that's perhaps more dangerous. Deval is not anti- MSP. Deval is anti RTT $. He knows numbers are low, he said that it's the reason MSP don't enforce immigration law- our police are just too busy to enforce THOSE laws. And Baker is the same way. Cops over flaggers, until flaggers over cops- whatever is cheaper. 

In reality, are Deval or Baker really wrong about police? I do agree to a certain extent to freeze everything and try to stabilize the economy, but that means FREEZE EVERYTHING- INCLUDING WELFARE. You can't stop hiring cops to save money, then pass bills that increase health and social benefits to the indigent. Sure, pensions suck for the state and are not working. Reevaluate new obligations and move forward with a new plan. 

Instead, these two idiots will argue about everything, then make the same asshole mistakes every pol has made in this state. Political patronage, overpaying redundant positions, etc. Out of curiosity (and no disrespect meant towards the Troopers here) how many ADMIN positions have been CREATED in the MSP since the last RTT? I bet the only thing that slowed the Turnpike Authority Board from disappearing was determining how to justify keeping all those people on the payroll.

If I really had complete freedom in my life today, I'd vote with my feet and move elsewhere.


----------



## OfficerObie59

My big issue when it comes to such positions is that public safety are in a different class of public employees as opposed to teachers, clerical workers, and laborers. Not to take anything away from them, but I simply don't think that my job equals theirs in the amount of physical stress and sheer mental drain, strain on family life, rates of alcholism, depression, suicide, etc.

There's a reason we retire at 55 and they retire at 60 or 65. We all know the reasons and the sacrifices we give to do this thankless work, and the benefits of good health insurance and a decent wage were always the trade-off. I'm sorry if I sound greedy to the outsider or unthankfull that I have a job, but the fact my current life expectancy is 57 years old and I can't get private life insurance without taking out a second mortgage to pay for it should be evidence enough that the benefits we get are fair and shouldn't be f**** with. 

In the end, the differences and favor I'm giving to any of the candidates is very small over the others. No matter how you shovel the shit, in the end it's still shit. The smell can't get much worse than it already is...


----------



## Lost

OfficerObie59 said:


> My big issue when it comes to such positions is that public safety are in a different class of public employees as opposed to teachers, clerical workers, and laborers. Not to take anything away from them, but I simply don't think that my job equals theirs in the amount of physical stress and sheer mental drain, strain on family life, rates of alcholism, depression, suicide, etc.
> 
> There's a reason we retire at 55 and they retire at 60 or 65. We all know the reasons and the sacrifices we give to do this thankless work, and the benefits of good health insurance and a decent wage were always the trade-off. I'm sorry if I sound greedy to the outsider or unthankfull that I have a job, but the fact my current life expectancy is 57 years old and I can't get private life insurance without taking out a second mortgage to pay for it should be evidence enough that the benefits we get are fair and shouldn't be f**** with.
> 
> In the end, the differences and favor I'm giving to any of the candidates is very small over the others. No matter how you shovel the shit, in the end it's still shit. The smell can't get much worse than it already is...


It's not that I disagree with you. From a budgetary point of view, however, your life insurance benefits/ Quinn Bill/ whatever else is simply another cost- these assholes just want to cut out whatever is not attached to their current hot button issue or will get them elected.

If they could net $100 in savings over lawsuits, they'd remove brakes from all the cruisers.


----------



## OfficerObie59

Lost said:


> It's not that I disagree with you. From a budgetary point of view, however, your life insurance benefits/ Quinn Bill/ whatever else is simply another cost- these assholes just want to cut out whatever is not attached to their current hot button issue or will get them elected.
> 
> If they could net $100 in savings over lawsuits, they'd remove brakes from all the cruisers.


Oh, I completely agree. I wasn't arguing directly in response to any previous comment--I completely understand the political reality.

Aside from being a bitching post, I was simply trying to make the point that everyone is going to screw us, and these small differences are very small. All of us are going to be holding our noses when we check the box next to the gubernatorial candidate this year.

On a side note, I also heard someone bring up a point _in favor_ of Patrick that actually has a small bit of merit: Most of the cop-specific benefits have already already gutted. If Patrick were to slash benefits further, he'd have to do so against ALL the unions--not just police--against whom he might face more damaging opposition. My response to that is that when Baker starts slashing, a legislative supermajority is likely to push back than with a governor of a different party.

Whatever happens, we're screwed. I'm resigned to the fact unless we as a collective profession get off our keisters and do something, rather than just assuming our union dues are going to do it for us.


----------



## jedediah1

you can all write jedediah1 in for gov, i support the police, hate welfare, hate douchey folk with uppity attitudes towards common sense, and don't give a fuck about a mosque at ground zero or 5 miles down the road because this is MA not NY

so this november write in jedediah1 for governor and get a free thank you (while supplies last)


----------



## SinePari

Life-long Democrats in our unions have been screwed by by their own lately. If you think the Dems are pro-labor, just look at the list of those Reps who voted in favor of flaggers, and to eliminate the Quinn Bill. Your State Reps have sold you out, long before Baker announced his candidacy.

3 reasons why Baker is getting my vote:

1) It eliminates total Democrat power in both the Executive and Legislative branches. This was the crucible for the flagger and Quinn Bill debacle. Romney became quite effective in governing even though his policies were not veto-proof.

2) Right up front he told us he wants an RTT as a regular line item, not surcharged in insurance premiums. That's huge because it will force the legislature to find resources from within before more tax increases.

3) Wants to enforce immigration laws and remove ability for illegals to receive state benefits, and to me at least that's a start in the right direction.

My fear is that if the vote to roll back the sales get gets passed with Patrick still in office, we will see more increases in property, income, and everything else taxes. I don't see him cutting back on any useless wasteful programs unless they are "low-hanging fruits" like police-related costs.


----------



## LGriffin

What sickens me to no end is that when times are tough they all come after the us. There are never cuts to the welfare scumbags that ultimately create the greatest lag on every branch of our system. There is absolutely no oversight on that agency but sure come take more bread off our plates!

I don't like the looks of Baker's top five list at all.


----------



## Crvtte65

Baker was quoted the other day in the papers saying is wants to fight to ban all-union construction jobs

Link to article

That doesn't sound union friendly to me....


----------



## Lost

FWIW Deval says illegal immigrants cannot receive welfare benefits, only legal immigrants.


----------



## rg1283

The pay raise freeze and the "hiring freeze" in the Executive Department Scares me. It seems like a broad term covering much beyond the Governor's Office.

Almost every state agency it is under the "Executive Office of _______"

He is the lesser of 2 evils it seems and either way if your a State Employee your going to get screwed.

Deval has done nothing but ignore issues in the most vulnerable departments (Police, DOC, DMH). 

Having non-union construction projects scare the crap out of me. 

Then again would I rather NOT have higher taxes, illegals on welfare, a State Police that is not gaining any new Troopers.

Romney all though not my favorite due to the Healthcare Law and Assault Weapons Ban did at least put through another RTT and created a rainy day fund. He cut taxes and we were in the positive. 

I am convinced that Tim Cahill is just a vote stealer. A perfect storm. 

Then again with a different state legislature things could change. Act as a healthy balance. 

I would love to have the power to take my fine point pen and cross off unneeded budget items. 

I am taking the risk of voting for Baker. If the state has a fighting chance of having a better economic picture then it is him who can fix it. 

Deval blaming Baker for Big Dig $$ problems is a hard sell given the magnitude of the project. Its typical liberal propaganda that really isn't backed up by solid facts.


----------



## topcop14

Crvtte65 said:


> Baker was quoted the other day in the papers saying is wants to fight to ban all-union construction jobs
> 
> Link to article
> 
> That doesn't sound union friendly to me....


What he said was he wants to ", ban union-only construction projects and reform the regulatory system." Lets face it, for the most part the only union construction projects a public projects and we are all taking it in the ass. Union laborers are makeing more than cops with masters degrees. Why should union companies have a lock on public projects. For the most part unions have out lived there usefulness and are killing the economy. Think General Moters! ! ! I worked a strike detail a few weeks ago and more then ever unions are leaving a sour tast in my mouth.

Don't get me wrong, I am not happy with Baker but he is the only choice that we have.


----------



## Boston Irish Lass

Lost said:


> I do agree to a certain extent to freeze everything and try to stabilize the economy, but that means FREEZE EVERYTHING- INCLUDING WELFARE.


+ 1

Until politicians do away with the golden fleece retirement fund and not only pay into social security but also have to have the same health insurance and 401k etc as the regular citizen they are NEVER going to give a hoot about us. They don't have to because rarely do their own choices affect them personally. Every single one of them is going to blow smoke up our skirts to get their own agenda passed to push (increase?) their own sense of self importance.


----------



## Guest

That and term limits. Serve your country and go back to private sector

Sent from my FroyoEris using Tapatalk


----------



## GARDA

OfficerObie59 said:


> *My big issue when it comes to such positions is that public safety are in a different class of public employees as opposed to teachers, clerical workers, and laborers. Not to take anything away from them, but I simply don't think that my job equals theirs in the amount of physical stress and sheer mental drain, strain on family life, rates of alcholism, depression, suicide, etc.*
> 
> There's a reason we retire at 55 and they retire at 60 or 65. We all know the reasons and the sacrifices we give to do this thankless work, and the benefits of good health insurance and a decent wage were always the trade-off. I'm sorry if I sound greedy to the outsider or unthankfull that I have a job, but the fact my current life expectancy is 57 years old and I can't get private life insurance without taking out a second mortgage to pay for it should be evidence enough that the benefits we get are fair and shouldn't be f**** with.
> 
> In the end, the differences and favor I'm giving to any of the candidates is very small over the others. No matter how you shovel the shit, in the end it's still shit. The smell can't get much worse than it already is...


"*If your name is on the building, you're rich; if your name is on your desk, you're middle-class; if your name is on your shirt, you're poor.*"  _Rich Hall_

Okay, I'm not crying poor... but I don't sit behind a desk either. I like this quote because I think it addresses a distinction that should be taken into consideration by the candidates.

The intangible toll that our profession takes on us should be compensated for with the decent benefits, insurance and wages that Obie mentioned.

Other public employees also wear their name on their shirts and deserve a decent wage/benefits/insurance for what _*they *_do, but the difference between public safety workers and them should be as clear to the politicians as it is to us.


----------



## pahapoika

GARDA said:


> "*If your name is on the building, you're rich; if your name is on your desk, you're middle-class; if your name is on your shirt, you're poor.*" _Rich Hall_
> 
> about says it all, eh ? :shades_smile:
> 
> great quote !


----------



## Inspector

I no longer live in MA but the latest Baker ad downing public employees, unions etc. convince me he does not have any public employee's interest in mind. The sooner you recognize police are once again being used by another pol. the sooner you will agree all public employees have to unite to effectively resist the bashings you are getting. Democrats, Republicans and everybody are slamming all public employees and using groups against one another for their own interest. Don't jump in an agree to support any candidate until they show clear strong public support for you.


----------



## cc3915

*Poll: Voters clueless about Charlie Baker*

Nearly half of all prospective voters either don't know who Republican gubernatorial candidate Charlie Baker is or haven't made up their minds about him, a new Suffolk University/7News poll shows.

The survey of 500 registered voters, conducted Thursday through Sunday, shows 26 percent are undecided about Baker's favorability and another 16 percent have never heard of him - meaning it's panic time for the former Harvard Pilgrim Health Care CEO.

The good news for Baker: Among voters familiar with both him and the governor, Baker beats *Deval Patrick* 39 percent to 38 percent.

Poll: Voters clueless about Charlie Baker - BostonHerald.com


----------



## SinePari

*Re: Poll: Voters clueless about Charlie Baker*



cc3915 said:


> Nearly half of all prospective voters either don't know who Republican gubernatorial candidate Charlie Baker is or haven't made up their minds about him, a new Suffolk University/7News poll shows.
> 
> The survey of 500 registered voters, conducted Thursday through Sunday, shows 26 percent are undecided about Baker's favorability and another 16 percent have never heard of him - meaning it's panic time for the former Harvard Pilgrim Health Care CEO.
> 
> The good news for Baker: Among voters familiar with both him and the governor, Baker beats *Deval Patrick* 39 percent to 38 percent.
> 
> Poll: Voters clueless about Charlie Baker - BostonHerald.com


The only poll that matters:

Election 2010: Massachusetts Governor - Rasmussen Reports


----------



## Lost

OK- so who is watching Cahill hit Patrick hard on police benefits? Or Patrick talking about a new program to replace Quinn or that all PO's should be bargaining with their municipalities for education funding???


----------



## lofu

How anyone can watch this debate and still say that Cahill is a plant to get Patrick elected is beyond me. He's hitting Patrick harder than he's hitting Baker.


----------



## Pvt. Cowboy

Stein... Really... Why are you here? Just go away, smoke a joint, and eat some granola.


----------



## BlueShield33

I don't think we could do any worse than Devil. He's put a stranglehold on law enforcement all over this state. Vote Baker!


----------



## Lost

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Stein... Really... Why are you here? Just go away, smoke a joint, and eat some granola.


Who you talkin bout, Willis?


----------



## lofu

Haha. That was great when Cahill asked her about The Casino Bill and the 15,000 jobs it will create and she said "We need to create 50,000 not 15,000." Yeah, no shit. Any idea how you are going to do that?


----------



## Pvt. Cowboy

Lost said:


> Who you talkin bout, Willis?


The Green-Rainbow retard...


----------



## Lost

After watching the debate, I've lost all hope. More BS- LOTS OF IT. 

I'm somewhat ashamed to admit I momentarily thought about voting for Deval after the discussion on here. After last night, and Deval's ludicrous claims (e.g. Police Officers should bargain with their municipalities for educational incentives to replace Quinn), or his wonderful ideas and incredible successes, I will not vote for him. EVER. 

Cahill sounded almost like a police supporter. He really hit both Deval and Baker hard on balancing the budget on the backs of public safety. Regardless, I just heard more of the same from Cahill- a "Beacon Hill Insider." Easily the best of the three, but next....

Baker- a former health insurance executive who wants to reform state health care- something's not right here. And his desire to turn things around by laying off 5000 employees (and, in Mass government, that would probably cost twice keeping them employed), capping retirement, and removing benefits is ridiculous. IF YOU WANT A BETTER ECONOMY, BECOME MORE BUSINESS FRIENDLY AND STREAMLINED, RATHER THAN HURTING ALL GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES.

I thought I'd consider Stein until she started speaking. 

We are really screwed. None of these folks get it.


----------



## topcop14

Lost Are you trying to tell me that the state shouldnt make cuts. I bet one could find 5000 emplooyes to cut without impacting essential services at all. All the municipalicies have had to make cuts as the state slashed local aid. This state has so many politcal hack jobs it not even funny. Masschusetts state government is like a giant tick sucking every drop of blood from a dog. Only the dog is hard working taxpayers and the blood is our money. Keep voting for liberlas and we will get more of the same.


----------



## CJIS

We are doomed!

Stein is out every-time she opened her mouth I felt brain cells exploding.

Deval is out as he has screwed us over for 4 years and seems proud of it.

Baker ticks me off he keeps going back to "Well when I was CEO of Harvard Pilgrim" If he said that one more time I was going to flip out. That and he never really answered either Cahill's or Devals questions.

Cahill almost sounds like the best candidate and seems very pro Public Safety but I am not sure if he really has the background to lead. That and for some reason people of a third party almost never seem to win, although Joe Lieberman in CT did it.



I was disappointed "Meteor" did not appear last night


----------



## cj3441

Wolfman said:


> Since when is it the Government's responsibility to "create" jobs, anyhow? I thought that's what business and industry was for...


No, No, No, craddle to grave entitlements are what government's are for. Careful Wolf or it's off to the "political red-education" camps for you.


----------



## GARDA

Wolfman said:


> Since when is it the Government's responsibility to "create" jobs, anyhow? I thought that's what business and industry was for...





cj3441 said:


> No, No, No, craddle to grave entitlements are what government's are for. Careful Wolf or it's off to the "political red-education" camps for you.


Sadly enough, most 'Captain's of Industry' whose means of amassing a personal fortune contributed positively to the country in some way have been replaced by the modern 'Robber Barons', who use political means to achieve their own ends...

Pols today rarely crossover in order to reconcile society's business needs like a J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, Andrew Mellon and John D. Rockefeller once did... and unfortunately, I don't see it happening in November either  ...


----------



## Lost

Topcop

In what perverted universe do you think that the highly paid hack would get the boot??? Hey, if the MSP had layoffs, it'd be all admin right? 

The only people who will be let go are those who haven't been there long enough to hate their job yet, those who actually work. Eventuate was no money on the masspike, did they run short on tolltakers or hacks??? Lord knows the hacks didn't fill in. 

Look, I don't know the answer- if I did, I'd be asking for your vote! (douche chills)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SinePari

These debates only exacerbate Mark Twain's quote:

_Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt._


----------



## bok

Lost, 

Does your definition of "MSP administrative jobs / positions" refer to civilian or sworn ? 

MSP Non-sworn parties have been let go in order to allow for sworn employees (Troopers) to remain on the street. As we have - I am sure your department has issued numerous furlough days, civilian worker hour reductions, hiring freezes, layoffs, operational budget freezes etc ... It sucks !


----------



## Lost

I was just saying- if layoffs came to Troopers, it wouldn't be the bosses out a job. It's the workers. It's the guys from the last RTT. Same amount of work to be done, fewer workers, more bosses.

When layoffs hit the RMV, it won't be the back office folks who screw everything up. It will be the service employees, so fewer employees, more bosses, longer lines, more screw ups. 

I know it's a bargained for protection but the service still suffers.


----------



## bok

Any personnel with five years or less are subject to any whim of the Colonel - a matter of fact that would indeed pertain to members of the last R.T.T. With this stated, no parties of earned rank would be subject to job loss or "bosses" as you refer to them. Numerous furlough days have / had been ordered and put into place for LT's and above. 
If you meant by "adminstrative personnel" as of rank and above - they have rights of senority. Currently, it would be fair to say this time in State history reflects the lowest Trooper ranks and highest OIC ranks ( heavy on top - low on bottom ). There exists a dichotomy...attempting to provide service when the mechanism(s) are depleted through constant promotions, justifying non-patrol units and continual Vietnam-Era service aged retirements. Unfortunately, not to be repetitive, numerous departments ( small + large ) are being devastated by the same obvious fiscal situation / repercussions that State agencies face. I cannot speak to hacks but can't stand them nonetheless...


----------



## pahapoika

the state tried to clean out the DOC a few years back and found all these low/mid-level "do-nothing" hacks were politically connected !

everyone had juice so they "eliminated" their title, ie "unit manager" and "placed" them somewhere else.

like bad pennies, you just can't get rid of them :tounge_smile:


----------

