# DNC Charlotte: Identification required, even just near convention site



## 7costanza

Talk about double standards.

Oh, dear! What will Ellen Barkin, Michael Moore, Joe Biden, the NAACP, Attorney General Eric Holder and his apologists, Rep. Keith Ellison, and other unhinged leftists (redundant) say about this suppress-y turn of events? As they have told us, over and over, there is nothing more bigoted than requiring photo identification. Well, except for maybe "kitchen cabinets" and "chairs."
What will Rob Delaney say about this latest "suppression?"

From the convention website:
Please complete the following form regarding your organization's primary contact information and the authorized designee(s) to whom your 2012 Democratic National Convention credentials can be issued.
Authorized Pickup
All pickup persons must have a state-issued ID that matches the name submitted below.​We suppose it shouldn't be surprising, what with the racist Democratic National Convention line-up being paler than the MSNBC masthead. Conservatives call out the DNC for their rampant hypocrisy. Oh, the irony!


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## SgtAndySipowicz

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/national-debt-clock-convention/2012/09/03/id/450639

*As the DNC starts, our NATIONAL DEBT will hit 16 TRILLION dollars (was around 10 Trillion when Obama took over)..........it's amazing how anyone that loves this country could vote for this guy (Obama)............*


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## OfficerObie59

SgtAndySipowicz said:


> http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/national-debt-clock-convention/2012/09/03/id/450639
> 
> *As the DNC starts, our NATIONAL DEBT will hit 16 TRILLION dollars (was around 10 Trillion when Obama took over)..........it's amazing how anyone that loves this country could vote for this guy (Obama)............*


 But...but...didn't you hear? It's all Bush's fault!


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## Killjoy

Hah! Credentials are racist....except when I need them to secure my facility.


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## SgtAndySipowicz

OfficerObie59 said:


> But...but...didn't you hear? It's all Bush's fault!


*It's funny how they still blame Bush. Did he (Bush) spend the 6 Trillion after he was out of office somehow? And many voters still fall for this crap.......*


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## Guest

Isn't this "disenfranchising", "exclusionary", and the old fallback, "racist"?

After all, we know from the Democrats' incessant bleating about "voting rights" that only white, heterosexual, conservative, Christian males are capable of obtaining an ID card.


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## grizzlybear

Technically, voting and getting into a convention are totally different things. You can't really compare the two.


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## Pvt. Cowboy

grizzlybear said:


> Technically, voting and getting into a convention are totally different things. You can't really compare the two.


Um, yeah you can.

It's ABSURD that they need an ID to enter a convention, considering you don't even need to prove you're who you say you are when casting a ballot for the presidential election.

Completely fucked, there is ZERO LOGIC that justifies this.


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## grizzlybear

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Um, yeah you can.
> 
> It's ABSURD that they need an ID to enter a convention, considering you don't even need to prove you're who you say you are when casting a ballot for the presidential election.
> 
> Completely fucked, there is ZERO LOGIC that justifies this.


One is a guarantee in the state constitution usually, and if the ID requires even 1 cent to get, it's a violation of the 24h amendment. This is the case for a lot of them, you need a birth certificate or something to even get the ID.

*Section 1.*The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.
*Section 2.* The Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.​Also, the DNC/RNC are places with highly placed politicians. Of course they're going to check IDs, some assassin might get in. The Secret Service is there protecting the place. Everyone can vote unless barred by the state they're in, like being a convict, etc. Not everyone can get into a convention. It's not even comparable.

I mean we've put up with "free speech zones" since Bush and they were justified by the government with "safety" as the reason.


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## Pvt. Cowboy

You're talking about being imposed a TAX to vote, versus verifying your identity. You're comparing apples to moonrocks. Possessing an ID, or having to pay for a means to identify yourself is not... Say it with me now... NOT A TAX. 

Assassins at the DNC? Really? What brand tin foil do you use?


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## grizzlybear

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> You're talking about being imposed a TAX to vote, versus verifying your identity. You're comparing apples to moonrocks. Possessing an ID, or having to pay for a means to identify yourself is not... Say it with me now... NOT A TAX.
> 
> Assassins at the DNC? Really? What brand tin foil do you use?


It was an example, if someone wanted to kill the President or some politician they could do it at any time theoretically. I'm not saying they're going to, but they could try I guess.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/30/us-usa-court-texas-voterid-idUSBRE87T11120120830

"During the July trial, lawyers from the U.S. Department of Justice equated that purchase to an illegal poll tax."

The poll tax was simply a required payment to vote to stop poor black voters for being able to. If getting an ID costs money, it's the same thing.

Voter ID laws are fine if they're free to get. In PA they are, you sign a paper and get a free ID and that's it.

The one thing I forgot though is voter fraud is incredibly rare, so voter ID laws are kind of pointless.


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## kwflatbed

" The one thing I forgot though is voter fraud is incredibly rare, so voter ID laws are kind of pointless. "

Who the hell are you trying to fool, just do a search anywhere and you will see how
rampart it is,thats one reason why OBAMA is in The White House Now !!!!!


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## grizzlybear

kwflatbed said:


> " The one thing I forgot though is voter fraud is incredibly rare, so voter ID laws are kind of pointless. "
> 
> Who the hell are you trying to fool, just do a search anywhere and you will see how
> rampart it is,thats one reason why OBAMA is in The White House Now !!!!!


Really? I've asked people for the evidence but they never show it. All investigations into voter fraud have shown it's very rare. People aren't risking jail time for a single vote out of millions you know?

People voted for Obama because they believed his bullshit while he continued the plan that started with Bush, just like Romney would if elected!

They both love big government and I love small government and freedom! Gary Johnson 2012


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## Dan Stark

You're vote libertarian, and don't think voter fraud exists? ok
It's run by the government...


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## grizzlybear

Dan Stark said:


> You're vote libertarian, and don't think voter fraud exists? ok
> It's run by the government...


I need evidence that shows extensive voter fraud, otherwise people are wasting money and creating a bigger nanny government with these laws.

I'm against big government taking away freedoms and making more and more laws. This is just another law, I need the proof.


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## Hush

Just put a photo on their EBT card...they all have one of those 
This cry of racism over voter ID is ridiculous, and anyone reasonable cam see right through it. We have to show ID for EVERYTHING these days. Electing the leader of the free world should be taken as seriously as possible, and should have safeguards in place. With groups like ACORN signing up Mickey Mouse, and illegals flooding into this country expecting to "get paid" you're goddamn right you should have to show ID in order to vote. Anyone too dumb, or too LAZY to not have a photo ID in 2012 really shouldn't be voting anyways.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dan Stark

grizzlybear said:


> I need evidence that shows extensive voter fraud, otherwise people are wasting money and creating a bigger nanny government with these laws.
> 
> I'm against big government taking away freedoms and making more and more laws. This is just another law, I need the proof.


If Gary Johnson had a legitimate chance of getting elected, would you be concerned with voter fraud?


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## grizzlybear

Dan Stark said:


> If Gary Johnson had a legitimate chance of getting elected, would you be concerned with voter fraud?


My opinion would be exactly the same.

Illegals aren't risking being deported to cast a single vote.

People aren't voting multiple times and risking fines and jail time en masse.

The ACORN thing wasn't voter fraud and no one was voting with the names. The stupid organization decided to pay employees for more registrations. So people cheated for money, got caught and that ended. All that happened was more people were registered than existed.

Like I said this can all be bypassed, mail everyone in every state an ID if they don't have one and the poll tax thing goes away. It's still a waste of money and time for the laws though.


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## Hush

grizzlybear said:


> Illegals aren't risking being deported to cast a single vote.


Yeah, and theyre not risking deportation by driving drunk or committing other crimes either, thanks to your buddy's amnesty program. And yes, all those extra names ARE on the rolls now. What's to stop them from being used in the future?
Its not a poll tax dummy. What about those poor minorities without cars? Are we now obligated to pick them up, or better yet go door to door?
The electoral process in this country is already fucked and corrupt enough, why not try making it better instead of making it worse.
I wish the new black panthers would try swinging a club outside MY local school on election day.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## Dan Stark

The 24th amd applies to citizens right? Is it really beyond the scope of reasonableness to verify that someone is a citizen prior to enjoying said protection? If we had closed borders and a handle on immigration sure. We don't. Cat is out of bag. I'm perfectly fine with free IDs. Get rid of all the other free shit.


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## grizzlybear

Hush said:


> Yeah, and theyre not risking deportation by driving drunk or committing other crimes either, thanks to your buddy's amnesty program. And yes, all those extra names ARE on the rolls now. What's to stop them from being used in the future?
> Its not a poll tax dummy. What about those poor minorities without cars? Are we now obligated to pick them up, or better yet go door to door?
> The electoral process in this country is already fucked and corrupt enough, why not try making it better instead of making it worse.
> I wish the new black panthers would try swinging a club outside MY local school on election day.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


I still need some evidence. Some illegals have committed crimes so they must be illegally voting? That's crazy.

I didn't hear this much complaining with Diebold's untraceable electronic voting. That shit can be hacked and have tons of votes changed easily, an ID wouldn't stop it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_per_head#United_States

Poll Tax
"The term was widely used in the South at the turn of the 20th century in combination with other measures as a means of disfranchisement to bar poor people, especially blacks, from voter registration and voting."

Recent debate has arisen about whether requiring citizens to purchase a state identification card acts as a poll tax and bars poor voters from voting.[3] To reduce cost, some states offer free identification cards for those who can demonstrate the need. However, significant additional costs can be incurred by individuals to acquire a "free" ID, as they need to provide other proof of identity. In addition to travel costs or potential lost wages, a certified copy of a birth certificate costs from $10 to $45 depending on the state, a passport costs $85, and certified naturalization papers cost $19.95. About 12 percent of voting-age Americans lack a driver's license and would need such state identification cards"

I don't honestly care all that much about the race argument. My point is without proof, these laws are big government nanny state BS.

That's why I don't vote Republican, they use laws to restrict rights and make bigger government all the time.



Dan Stark said:


> The 24th amd applies to citizens right? Is it really beyond the scope of reasonableness to verify that someone is a citizen prior to enjoying said protection? If we had closed borders and a handle on immigration sure. We don't. Cat is out of bag. I'm perfectly fine with free IDs. Get rid of all the other free shit.


When I vote they have my name already on paper from voter registration rolls, and those usually have to go through a process and you've got to be a citizen.

http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/elepdf/2012-Voter-reg-mail-in.pdf

According to this it says Federal law already requires an ID to register to vote.

Doesn't that make the laws extra pointless then?


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## Dan Stark

No IDs required when I registered. No IDS required when I vote. Who are you? I'm X. Do you live here? While they point at all my personal info on page. Sure. 

You on one hand said that Acorn was only registering people for extra $, but tell me the law requires proof of citizenship at that phase. What the fuck do you think they were going to do with the registrations?


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## Foxy85

Hush said:


> Yeah, and theyre not risking deportation by driving drunk or committing other crimes either, thanks to your buddy's amnesty program. And yes, all those extra names ARE on the rolls now. What's to stop them from being used in the future?
> Its not a poll tax dummy. What about those poor minorities without cars? Are we now obligated to pick them up, or better yet go door to door?
> The electoral process in this country is already fucked and corrupt enough, why not try making it better instead of making it worse.
> I wish the new black panthers would try swinging a club outside MY local school on election day.
> 
> Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


Hush, you're way off base. They don't drive around without licenses, and the show up to court with $500.00 cash to pay the fine each and every time, only to keep committing said violation of operating without a license. Such acts of criminal behavior would risk them being deported ........ So why on gods green earth would they ever walk up to a voting booth and risk voting......they could be....deported......

I'd be willing to donate to allow the less fortunate _legal_ citizens in this country to be able to have a free government issued ID ( in order to produce it at polling stations) , and proceeds could go towards funding additional ICE Agents.


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## kwflatbed

Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions

*113 convictions represent small fraction of total unlawful votes*
ST. PAUL, Minn., Oct. 13, 2011 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Minnesota Majority today released a report on voter fraud convictions to date stemming from Minnesota's 2008 general election. The report finds that 113 individuals who voted illegally in the 2008 election have been convicted of the crime, "ineligible voter knowingly votes" under Minnesota Statute 201.014.
"As far as we can tell, this is the largest number of voter fraud convictions arising from a single election in the past 75 years," said Minnesota Majority president Jeff Davis, "Prosecutions are still underway and so there will likely be even more convictions."
The highest number of convictions ever recorded in the United States came from the 1936 Jackson County, Missouri elections in which 259 individuals were convicted of voter fraud. A more recent five-year probe by the United States Department of Justice identified just 53 convictions for voter fraud nationwide.
"It's mind-boggling to me that as a tiny non-profit corporation, we netted more than double the number of convictions in one year than the US Department of Justice was able to find in five," said Davis.
Minnesota's recent charges and convictions stem from research initiated by Minnesota Majority. The research identified upwards of 2,800 ineligible felons believed to have unlawfully voted in Minnesota's 2008 general election.

PR Newswire (http://s.tt/1bGCZ)​This is just one example​


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## kwflatbed

*Election Fraud*

In addition to pursuing _"Neighborhood / Precinct Organizing" _to engage and mobilize like-minded, concerned conservative and moderate voters, who have decided to be the "Silent Majority" no more, we must be vigilant to stop voter fraud which disenfranchises legitimate votes. Analyses have shown that much of the voter fraud is facilitated by voter access initiatives advocated by liberals, such as automatic voter registration when applying for driver licenses, unrestricted absentee ballots, and early voting.

In 2010 liberals were discussing a _Universal Voter Registration_ (UVR) law, which would further subvert and corrupt the voter registration process. The_ Universal Voter Registration_ (UVR) law would override all state election laws and force states to register everyone to vote who is on welfare, is unemployed, has a driver's license, or is a property owner. Many people on these lists are duplicates and many are illegal aliens. For more information, click on this sentence to link to an article by Allan Erickson, titled "Dems positioning to rig November Elections?". 

To assess the potential for voter fraud in your state, check out the American Civil Rights Union website.
To win the 2008 presidential election, much evidence exists which suggests that election fraud occurred in states with Secretaries of States elected as a result of George Soros'_Secretary of State Project. _Voting fraudor voting irregularities were made possible by actions and decisions made by these Secretaries of States. For example, in Ohio, where President Obama beat McCain by fewer than 270,000 votes, the following occurred: 

To win the 2008 presidential election, much evidence exists which suggests that election fraud occurred in states with Secretaries of States elected as a result of George Soros'_Secretary of State Project. _Voting fraudor voting irregularities were made possible by actions and decisions made by these Secretaries of States. For example, in Ohio, where President Obama beat McCain by fewer than 270,000 votes, the following occurred: 

The Secretary of State as one of her first acts, once in office, unilaterally re-interpreted Ohio Election statutes governing the overlap of the voter registration deadline and the start of early voting. The Secretary of State created a scenario in which residents could fill out a voter registration and immediately cast a vote. Without interlocking cross-checking capabilities, anyone could register and "cast a ballot" in multiple locations. The Secretary of State ordered the unprepared and understaffed County Election Boards to set up voting centers that would assure a massive turnout and, amazingly, banned all poll-watchers from the vote centers. (As an aside, the Obama campaign paid ACORN $800,000 to register new voters. )
As a result, over 600,000 new Ohio voter registrations were obtained, but the Secretary of State declined to enforce the provision of the "Help America Vote Act, which would have required the Secretary of State to use databases to allow verification of these new registrations. Furthermore, the Secretary of State would not allow county Boards of Election access to information they needed to verify the newly-registered voters. In fact, the Secretary of State admitted that known "discrepancies" existed for about 200,000 registrations which failed the "match-up" test in which voter information is compared to driver's license and Social Security databases. The Secretary of State argued that she did not have the necessary time to rectify the situation and that nothing in the "Help America Vote Act" states what should be done if a mismatch is discovered. A federal U.S District judge ruled that she was breaking federal law by not performing the verifications and blocking database access to the eighty-eight County Boards of Election, only to be overruled in a split decision by the 6thCircuit Court of Appeals on a technicality. The brief opinion from the court stated that the federal law which called for computer checks of new voters did not authorize private lawsuits to enforce it (a lawsuit had been filed by Ohio's Republican Party).
In contrast, Ohio's Secretary of State sought to invalidate a million signed, absentee-ballot applications issued by the McCain campaign, due to a technical issue of inadvertently having an extra, unnecessary checkbox. The Ohio Supreme Court later overturned this Secretary of State's directive.
http://thevoicesofamerica.org/Election_Fraud.html


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## Dan Stark

I would be curious how he would reply to the argument that one illegitimate vote does in fact disenfranchise a legitimate vote, and what protection should be in place for citizens.


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## grizzlybear

kwflatbed said:


> Minnesota Leads the Nation in Voter Fraud Convictions


Counter-Point

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2012/08/14/good-question-is-minnesota-1-for-voter-fraud/

Those 156 convictions are out of nearly 3 million votes cast in a typical presidential election. According to the state, there were 73 cases still pending.
But is it disingenuous to say we're number one when it's such a miniscule percentage?
"The stats bear it out," Davis said. "It's not our data, it's the state's data."
"This is a patently false claim," said Dan McGrath, executive director of Take Action MN, a group that's been fighting against the photo ID constitutional amendment.
"In an election season it's nothing new to hear allegations to stir up fear," he said.
McGrath says that Minnesota has had some razor-thin elections, and we've had reason to look for evidence of fraud. That's not true in every other state.
"They looked around the country, turns out no one's done a study like this. Minnesota Majority is trying to stir up fear, trying to stir up anxiety about the voting system," Mcgrath said.
If you think of voter fraud as an organized effort where people are impersonating other voters, there's never been a conviction of that in Minnesota.
"The number of convictions represent a small slice, it's an indicator, it's the tip of the iceberg," Davis said.
It's impossible to know for sure if Minnesota is or isn't number one in voter fraud.

156 out of 3 million in one state is not widespread, still not enough to enact entire laws to combat a tiny problem.

The second Ohio one isn't much evidence as it's saying registering people is bad because someone might be illegal and mentions George Soros, the everpresent boogeyman.

I need actual hard evidence of voter fraud, masses of people in a large enough number voting illegally to justify these laws.


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> Those are only the ones that got caught, tried, AND convicted.
> 
> If you believe there was only 156 fraudulent ballots, I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.
> 
> Oh, and GFYS, troll. You've been outed.


So you're saying we need laws based on things that can't be proven because you think they exist?

I'm not trolling, and outed? Huh?


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## kwflatbed

OBAMA will not have any votes.


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## Meat Eater

It's getting bad when someone has to join a form in the hopes of changing a few votes. I think grizzlybear work security for the Dollar Store on weekends. There is no way someone that blind could be a cop.


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> What is WRONG with requiring voters prove they are who they say they are?


If it costs money it's a constitutional violation, plus I'm against more laws for dumb shit. This has no real reason, so it's another stupid big government nanny law.

Ya'll are sounding pretty liberal, supporting laws to deny freedom.



Meat Eater said:


> It's getting bad when someone has to join a form in the hopes of changing a few votes. I think grizzlybear work security for the Dollar Store on weekends. There is no way someone that blind could be a cop.


I'm not here to change anyone's vote, why would you even think that? I'm discussing politics, that doesn't come close to trying to change your mind.


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## HistoryHound

grizzlybear said:


> If it costs money it's a constitutional violation, plus I'm against more laws for dumb shit. This has no real reason, so it's another stupid big government nanny law.
> 
> Ya'll are sounding pretty liberal, supporting laws to deny freedom.
> 
> I'm not here to change anyone's vote, why would you even think that? I'm discussing politics, that doesn't come close to trying to change your mind.


My kids thought it was completely ridiculous that they didn't have to show one piece of ID to register to vote. They're 19 & 21 and the concept of being able to vote without proving you are who you say you are made no sense to them and they go to one of the most liberal colleges in this state. Think about all of the other places you need to show ID. Depending on how old you look if you want to buy alcohol, cigarettes or even the lottery (yes one of my kids got carded buying a lottery ticket) you need ID. Before they got their licenses my kids had trouble returning items at certain stores even though they had their receipts because the return policy required an ID. You want to cash a check? You better have an ID on you. You want to get a job? Try telling the HR person that you can't fill out an I-9 because you have no ID. Hell, I got carded at the movies the last time I went with my daughter because she wanted to see Bridesmaids and the kid didn't think either of us looked 21. Apparently you have to be 21 to buy a ticket to an R movie for someone else.

The percentage of people that don't have and are incapable of getting an ID is so small that it's ridiculous to argue that you shouldn't need to prove you are who you claim to be in order to vote.


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## grizzlybear

HistoryHound said:


> My kids thought it was completely ridiculous that they didn't have to show one piece of ID to register to vote. They're 19 & 21 and the concept of being able to vote without proving you are who you say you are made no sense to them and they go to one of the most liberal colleges in this state. Think about all of the other places you need to show ID. Depending on how old you look if you want to buy alcohol, cigarettes or even the lottery (yes one of my kids got carded buying a lottery ticket) you need ID. Before they got their licenses my kids had trouble returning items at certain stores even though they had their receipts because the return policy required an ID. You want to cash a check? You better have an ID on you. You want to get a job? Try telling the HR person that you can't fill out an I-9 because you have no ID. Hell, I got carded at the movies the last time I went with my daughter because she wanted to see Bridesmaids and the kid didn't think either of us looked 21. Apparently you have to be 21 to buy a ticket to an R movie for someone else.
> 
> The percentage of people that don't have and are incapable of getting an ID is so small that it's ridiculous to argue that you shouldn't need to prove you are who you claim to be in order to vote.


None of that stuff is in the constitution for one, nor guaranteed by the individual states. Most of it has nothing to do with the government so it has no bearing on this, and needing an ID for everything is horseshit anyway. People are too paranoid nowadays, and too eager to give up freedoms and be monitored everywhere.

Let me state my case once again:

1. Voter fraud is rare, so laws to fight something that rare are a waste of time.

2. If the ID costs money to procure, it's essentially banned by the constitution. That's why Texas's law was struck down! You can't make people pay to vote, period.

3. More laws = Big Government = Less Freedom = More tax dollars spent

You guys defending big government makes you sound like liberals, it really does. You both love big government apparently whether it's to squash abortion rights, prop up the drug war or enact pointless voter ID laws.

This is why I'm a real conservative and not a Republican.


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## Guest

grizzlybear said:


> If it costs money it's a constitutional violation, plus I'm against more laws for dumb shit. This has no real reason, so it's another stupid big government nanny law.
> 
> Ya'll are sounding pretty liberal, supporting laws to deny freedom.


Saying there's no need for ID to vote is akin to saying you shouldn't have to register to vote. In fact, why have any system like that whatsoever? Aren't you infringing on the rights of illiterate people who can't fill out the forms? Or can't get to there to fill out the forms because they can't afford a car or bus pass? Ridiculous. Voting for our government officials (especially the president) is one of the greatest rights and responsibilities we have as citizens. Why do think they have all the rules for WHO is allowed to vote? You must be 18, must be a citizen, must not be a felon, etc. If you have rules outlining who can vote, there must be checks and balances in place to enforce those rules. What other way is there than to register to vote, and show ID proving you are the person who is listed as being allowed to cast your vote? You can't even check out a library book without a photo ID. If you're such a bleeding heart, maybe you'd be generous enough to pay for all those poor souls who can't afford some type of government issued ID... You know, since you're so worried about them.

Sent from my wicked smaht DROID RAZR


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## grizzlybear

right.as.rain said:


> Saying there's no need for ID to vote is akin to saying you shouldn't have to register to vote. In fact, why have any system like that whatsoever? Aren't you infringing on the rights of illiterate people who can't fill out the forms? Or can't get to there to fill out the forms because they can't afford a car or bus pass? Ridiculous. Voting for our government officials (especially the president) is one of the greatest rights and responsibilities we have as citizens. Why do think they have all the rules for WHO is allowed to vote? You must be 18, must be a citizen, must not be a felon, etc. If you have rules outlining who can vote, there must be checks and balances in place to enforce those rules. What other way is there than to register to vote, and show ID proving you are the person who is listed as being allowed to cast your vote? You can't even check out a library book without a photo ID. If you're such a bleeding heart, maybe you'd be generous enough to pay for all those poor souls who can't afford some type of government issued ID... You know, since you're so worried about them.
> 
> Sent from my wicked smaht DROID RAZR


Bleeding heart? Maybe you should read what I actually said before saying shit.

It's a constitutional amendment that says if it costs money, it ain't legal.

Voter fraud isn't a thing, and registering ain't necessary either in my mind but we're long past putting that horse back in the barn.

I mean do you really think IDs are infallible? If people want to illegally vote, they can get a fake ID. I mean come on, think for a minute.

It's like saying laws making drugs illegal keep drugs from being used.


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> So you believe someone shouldn't be IDed to purchase a firearm? Because that's guaranteed in the Constitution.


I'm for small government, it shouldn't be a law, no. It should be up to the sellers if they want to ask for ID.

As things are, the Supreme Court interprets things though.


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> Do you have a firearm license in Massachusetts?


Yes and our rules make no sense whatsoever, it'd be easier to go buy an illegal gun off a street corner than go through the stupid process here. Then we've got arbitrary "approval" bullshit.


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> So you don't actually believe in what you speak of?
> 
> Surely someone who believes that such identification is so wrong would never partake in that very identification system....


It is wrong, but I like guns more and had no choice in the matter. I need to live in NH or VT again and not have to deal with it.

If I needed an ID to buy food I'd do it too. You're making a weak point here, I'm arguing against the expansion of a pointless law. Our MA gun law is here to stay and been here a while, nothing I could do about that.

If I didn't need an ID for anything, I wouldn't have one. But as I like stuff and need it to possibly not get in deep shit, here it is.


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## Hush

You SHOULD have to pay to vote, and an EBT card better not be fucking accepted. Let the people who care enough about the issues cast a vote, and get rid of the derelicts who are bussed to the polls and paid with cigarettes. 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## grizzlybear

GMass said:


> You're full of shit.


No, you just had a shitty argument.


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## LGriffin

Hush said:


> You SHOULD have to pay to vote, and an EBT card better not be fucking accepted. Let the people who care enough about the issues cast a vote, and get rid of the derelicts who are bussed to the polls and paid with cigarettes.


Thankfully, our troops pay for our right to vote but I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of your statement. It should be interesting to see what happens now that the Dems mailed absentee ballots to these lazy bastards. Hopefully they invest the same effort on that ballot that they invest on their bills.


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## grizzlybear

Any member, former or current, of the military I know would laugh if I told them they protected my right to vote, but anyway.

Paying to vote is wrong, and illegal anyway.


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## kwflatbed

From a Nam Combat Vet, you sir are a complete ASSHOLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Hush

grizzlybear said:


> Any member, former or current, of the military I know would laugh if I told them they protected my right to vote, but anyway.
> 
> Paying to vote is wrong, and illegal anyway.


Too many people in our society (democratic voter base) are asked to pay for NOTHING in their lives. This should not be rewarded by letting them vote to keep the feeding trough full for them with the working peoples money. A photo ID, a basic requirement for just about every aspect of life today, is not unreasonable at all.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## grizzlybear

kwflatbed said:


> From a Nam Combat Vet, you sir are a complete ASSHOLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Well Iraq wasn't threatening our right to vote, nor was Afghanistan or even Vietnam, or even Korea. Hitler and Japan? Probably the most likely.


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## LGriffin

Douche, they protect our rights and freedoms. Without them, we'd be speaking Russian by now and frankly, I highly doubt that any of _your friends_ would have the balls to serve. You really seem to have difficulty seeing the bigger picture so thankfully, your vote won't count.


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## grizzlybear

LGriffin said:


> Douche, they protect our right and freedoms. Without them, we'd be speaking Russian by now and frankly, I highly doubt that any of _your friends_ would have the balls to serve. You really seem to have difficulty seeing the bigger picture so thankfully, your vote won't count.


Yeah, no. Quite a few of them do, Coast Guard, 2 Marines, 2 Army, etc.

They can protect the right to vote, but not in any war since WW2 has it been threatened. No one has been poised to invade us for example.

How exactly would Afghanistan/Iraq/Vietnam/Korea have prevented us from voting exactly?


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## LGriffin

You wrote Coast Guard first on that list? You're a waste of my time.


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## grizzlybear

LGriffin said:


> You wrote Coast Guard first on that list? You're a waste of my time.


Yeah sorry, I didn't edit the list as you wanted. Are you serious? The list they're written in doesn't mean shit.


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## kwflatbed

Also your postings on MC don't mean shit , you are a 100% troll, asshole,
and bullshit artist.


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## 7costanza

Voter fraud is so "rare" as our new " independent" member states, a google check shows as usual the new "independent" member needs to go back to hibernate.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Federal-prosecutors-credit-guilty-ex-W-Va-sheriff-3820694.php

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ark-lawmaker-pleads-guilty-to-election-charge-3842362.php

Mostly Democrats also, anyone who does this shit should have lengthy prison sentences , either that or start an organization funded by tax dollars to do the same thing and call it ACORN.


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## Mr Scribbles

Now kids, let's play nice...and stay on topic
An ID is a basic necessity in order to conduct your life. What is so maddening is the hypocricy Dems display any time the issue comes up. DTA (Welfare) has proposed putting a photo ID on EBT cards, but Gov Ratrick insists he will veto it because it's humiliating to those on the dole, another win for the taxpayers, right Gov??
AND the Mass Dems threatened to force delegates to their convention to show ID in order to vote, so their phony indian Miss Prarie Dog (Liz Warren) wouldn't face a primary opponent.
WTF are we living in Russia? Wake Up and look at the crap their pulling.
Here's a novel idea, in November, maybe ALL Police Officers at the polls should ask for an ID from the voters (it's allowed and posted at all polling places)then watch how quick they howl claiming we're disenfranchising or intimidating voters. If you're (cops) threatened, just tell them you're with the New Black Panther Party and that gunrunner AG Holder will protect you...


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## grizzlybear

7costanza said:


> Voter fraud is so "rare" as our new " independent" member states, a google check shows as usual the new "independent" member needs to go back to hibernate.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Federal-prosecutors-credit-guilty-ex-W-Va-sheriff-3820694.php
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ark-lawmaker-pleads-guilty-to-election-charge-3842362.php
> 
> Mostly Democrats also, anyone who does this shit should have lengthy prison sentences , either that or start an organization funded by tax dollars to do the same thing and call it ACORN.


Those are absentee ballots my friend.


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## 7costanza

If you dont think absentee ballots have aything to do with voter fraud your clearly too far gone.


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## grizzlybear

7costanza said:


> If you dont think absentee ballots have aything to do with voter fraud your clearly too far gone.


"The new law requiring a government-issued photo ID to vote applies _only to those voting at polling places_. It does not apply to those casting absentee ballots under state law, including those age 65 or older who wish to vote absentee or those voting at licensed nursing homes."

Most of the voter ID laws don't change absentee balloting and the ones that do say you need an ID to pick it up, not turn it in.

You already needed to do that to register to vote in a polling place, so...not any different.


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## HistoryHound

I was just reminded of one more place you're required to show photo ID. The doctor's office. Every doctor we have has been asking to see and scanning our photo IDs in addition to our insurance cards.


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## Guest

grizzlybear said:


> Any member, former or current, of the military I know would laugh if I told them they protected my right to vote, but anyway.


I served in both the Army & the National Guard, and I most certainly did protect your right to vote. The Soviet Union looked into the feasibility of invading the United States, and eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't feasible, due to the large number of citizen soldiers, as well as citizen gun owners.

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way" - Colonel Nathan R. Jessup


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## 7costanza

Delta784 said:


> I served in both the Army & the National Guard, and I most certainly did protect your right to vote. The Soviet Union looked into the feasibility of invading the United States, and eventually came to the conclusion that it wasn't feasible, due to the large number of citizen soldiers, as well as citizen gun owners.


As did the Japs, and who knows how many others.


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## grizzlybear

7costanza said:


> As did the Japs, and who knows how many others.


Both of you seemed to have missed what I said, especially you.


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## grn3charlie

mmmm, no, I think you were quite clear. The fact that you would make it a point that anything after WWII was without merit shows that you know nothing about the outside world enough to appreciate what every veteran since then has done. Enjoy your trolling on the bistro w-ifi in Amherst. I know, you are getting exactly the reaction you really want, and I too and feeding you that, but just the same I won't say GFYS. I'll say, GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU UNAPPRECIATIVE FUCK


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## Guest

grizzlybear said:


> Both of you seemed to have missed what I said, especially you.


No, I didn't miss what you said.

What you said was this;

_Any member, former or current, of the military I know would laugh if I told them they protected my right to vote, but anyway._

I'm a former member of the military, which qualifies for your criteria, and I'm telling you I protected your right to vote, as have other members here.

That makes you wrong.

And, if you want to hedge your bets by saying any military member *you know*, I kind of doubt you know many current or former military service members. There aren't too many drinking lattes in Greenfield.


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## grizzlybear

Delta784 said:


> No, I didn't miss what you said.
> 
> What you said was this;
> 
> _Any member, former or current, of the military I know would laugh if I told them they protected my right to vote, but anyway._
> 
> I'm a former member of the military, which qualifies for your criteria, and I'm telling you I protected your right to vote, as have other members here.
> 
> That makes you wrong.
> 
> And, if you want to hedge your bets by saying any military member *you know*, I kind of doubt you know many current or former military service members. There aren't too many drinking lattes in Greenfield.


Seeing as I did say "I know" and don't live in Greenfield, I don't know what to tell you.


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## Guest

grizzlybear said:


> Seeing as I did say "I know" and don't live in Greenfield, I don't know what to tell you.


I didn't say you live in Greenfield, but I know for a fact you've been there.

P.S. The Cub Scouts doesn't qualify for the military.


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## grizzlybear

Delta784 said:


> I didn't say you live in Greenfield, but I know for a fact you've been there.
> 
> P.S. The Cub Scouts doesn't qualify for the military.


I haven't been to Greenfield in a good while really, might have driven through but that's about the extent of it.


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## Mr Scribbles

Yo Grizzly, I'm sure all the dead voters showed ID when they originally registered to vote. I'm saying ID everyone who comes in to vote (and YES it's legal for police officers to do this).
I work in an area that is home to several large universities and if you don't think some of those kids are voting twice (home state and school) you've obviously been kicked in the head by that [Deomkratic] donkey during your performances together...
Furthermore, the Obama administration is abetting voter fraud through his corrupt AG (a$$hole gunrunner) Holder who among other things refuses to turn over documents and lists of felons/illegals/etc to Florida so they can purge voter rolls AS REQUIRED BY FEDERAL MANDATE!
Acorn lives and is growing into an oak tree of corruption...


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## Johnny Law

Delta784 said:


> I didn't say you live in Greenfield, but I know for a fact you've been there.
> 
> P.S. The Cub Scouts doesn't qualify for the military.


Oh guzzleybear, you may think you've outsmarted all of us, and are having a good laugh at the pressroom jerkoff sessions, but you are dealing with seasoned investigators who have a highly refined bullshit detector. So refined we can smell it upwind for a mile. If Delta says you are in Greenfield and you are trolling the Scouts for ass, then I believe him... and then some.

I'd like to know what your friends in the military did when you went up to them and said "You know, you really didn't protect my rights to vote with your service" I'm guessing at a minimum they aren't your friends anymore.


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## Meat Eater

Gigglybear, Obama is going to lose. Looks like your going to get kicked off the public dole and have to get a job. Are you using your mom's computer while living in her basement?


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## grizzlybear

Meat Eater said:


> Gigglybear, Obama is going to lose. Looks like your going to get kicked off the public dole and have to get a job. Are you using your mom's computer while living in her basement?


What part of "I'm voting Libertarian and would never vote for Obama or Romney" is not clear exactly?

As for who's going to win, it doesn't matter much between them but Obama will pull it off. He's got the minority vote tied up and Romney would have to win a vast majority of the white vote to offset it.

I'm not sure Romney will get many female voters either.


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## Meat Eater

Gigglybear, it's ok to be a Democrat some of my family members still are. They will be voting for Romney this year.


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## grizzlybear

Meat Eater said:


> Gigglybear, it's ok to be a Democrat some of my family members still are. They will be voting for Romney this year.


So it's opposite day then huh? It's funny that Romney voters think they're conservatives.


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## niteowl1970

grizzlybear said:


> So it's opposite day then huh? It's funny that Romney voters think they're conservatives.


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## grizzlybear

niteowl1970 said:


>


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## niteowl1970

grizzlybear said:


>


The fact that you responded must mean I at least received points for hitting a nerve.


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## Dan Stark

The meme force is strong in you Niteowl.


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## grizzlybear

niteowl1970 said:


> The fact that you responded must mean I at least received points for hitting a nerve.


Unless you're Adam Sandler...

How is Six Flags? I haven't been there since it was called Riverside!


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## niteowl1970

grizzlybear said:


> How is Six Flags?


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## justanotherparatrooper

Thhe crowd that supports Obama are the biggest racist on the planet.


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## Pvt. Cowboy

USMCMP5811 said:


> Gbear or, should I say, ImperialGuard, will no longer be joining us due to "Poster Fraud". Maybe we should require valid ID's to register here.............


Ahhhh he rejoined up? Imperial Guard was a super douche.


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## kwflatbed

USMCMP5811 said:


> Gbear or, should I say, ImperialGuard, will no longer be joining us due to "Poster Fraud". Maybe we should require valid ID's to register here.............


THANK YOU KEN !!!!!!!!
Glad to see someone finaly stepped up to the plate and took care of this.


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## Hush

You can play all you want, but you still gotta play by the rules 

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2


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## 7costanza

Thats to bad, he was just turning his lfe around. Does this mean im not getting "outted" in a front page spread, not that kid of spread Nuke TRT dont get all essited.


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## grn3charlie

Nice work USMCPM511. Guppybear and IG are the same fucko's. Whodda thunk it?


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## Guest

I'm glad that there was finally a valid reason to ban him because he/she was annoying, but I vehemently disagree with banning people just because their political views go against the mainstream opinions here.

That would make us no better than the national media who are in the tank for the liberal Democrats......I'll debate anyone to the end of the Earth, but I'm not going to pull an MSNBC and ban/censor someone just because I disagree with them.


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## HistoryHound

I remember imperial guard being here and an asshole, I just don't remember anything he posted. No great loss.

Delta I like a good debate as much as anyone, but that guy wasn't the debating type. He just came off as argumentative which is why I wanted nothing to do with him.


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## kwflatbed

Ken he tried to join I don't remember how many times using two or three different ip addys when I was moderating.


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## Meat Eater

I liked giving Gigglybear shit.


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