# Left Turn on Red



## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

I am traveling east bound on Congress St. in the financial district in Boston. I am the 1st car in the far left lane at the intersection of Atlantic Avenue northbound. I yield to all oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red. 

Complicating issue - Congress turns into a 2 way street at the next block. So it is no longer a one way street. (However, I am making a left turn from a one way street to a one way street where I am).

I read the law and it states:

M.G.L.A. 89§ 8- Right-of-way at intersecting ways; turning on red signals

"....then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to such red or stop signal, may make either (1) a right turn or (2) if on a one-way street may make a left turn to another one-way street, but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at said intersection....."

So - I believe that because I am literally "on" a one way street (it doesn't change until the next block) I am ok. The reason I believe this is because if I am not correct and it is illegal (because it is not a through one way street), then one could argue that no left turns on red are legal on Congress Street because it is not one way its full length. The law doesn't state that the road must be one way the full length and so I wonder????

Thank you in advance for your advise!


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## MCADPD24 (Nov 7, 2008)

LMAO Is there room on the bus?


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## Guest (Jun 8, 2009)

RickW said:


> I *am* traveling east bound on Congress St. in the financial district in Boston. I *am* the 1st car in the far left lane at the intersection of Atlantic Avenue northbound.


Are you type this while you is drivings ???


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## SPINMASS (Jan 30, 2004)

He left out the part about getting stopped and issued a citation but clearly it is the root of this thread.


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

Its a member.....gotta be.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

It is not a member.

PriceWaterhouseCoopers, LLP


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## SPINMASS (Jan 30, 2004)

Interesting.


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## Pats2009 (Aug 24, 2007)

RickW said:


> I am traveling east bound on Congress St. in the financial district in Boston. I am the 1st car in the far left lane at the intersection of Atlantic Avenue northbound. I yield to all oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red.
> 
> Complicating issue - Congress turns into a 2 way street at the next block. So it is no longer a one way street. (However, I am making a left turn from a one way street to a one way street where I am).
> 
> ...


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

As Lt. Ruffo frequently said...."You gotta be shittin' me".


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## StbbrnMedic (Nov 28, 2008)

Ok... So it's not me then?!? I read this once, didn't understand it. 
Read it a second time and gave up half way through. 
I'm guessing it's:
I was driving, took a left turn on a red light on a one way street to another... got a ticket and now want to know how to beat it.

Am I right?


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

RickW said:


> I am traveling east bound on Congress St. in the financial district in Boston. I am the 1st car in the far left lane at the intersection of Atlantic Avenue northbound. I yield to all oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red.
> 
> Complicating issue - Congress turns into a 2 way street at the next block. So it is no longer a one way street. (However, I am making a left turn from a one way street to a one way street where I am).
> 
> ...


The first thread I click on after my test is like a continuation of the LSAT. WTF? I came here for a release.

While usually I'd be game for such a question, I say f*ck it, if you get a ticket appeal it an confuse the judge like you did most of us.

If your really that concerned, hop on the bus or take the damn T. Did we mention? Harry's bus has no fare.


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

OK I got this one!!


Well, then you, after that appeal, then turn facing up! 

That should be as easy to understand as the post.



Rick if the block you turned on to was one way appeal it. You were given a ticket you did not deserve. Next time try to put your thoughts together a little better please. Your all over the place bud.


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

I started to read the question but then..................


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## Sam1974 (Apr 8, 2009)




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## MetrowestPD (Oct 21, 2008)

RickW said:


> I am traveling east bound on Congress St. in the financial district in Boston. I am the 1st car in the far left lane at the intersection of Atlantic Avenue northbound. I yield to all oncoming traffic and pedestrians. There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red.
> 
> Complicating issue - Congress turns into a 2 way street at the next block. So it is no longer a one way street. (However, I am making a left turn from a one way street to a one way street where I am).
> 
> ...


First, you said it yourself you violated MGL 89-8 by turning from a one way to a two way. You are just looking for loophole, and looking to have confirmation on this site. Not going to happen. Responsible, Pay the ticket.


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## Dazy5 (Jan 25, 2008)

If this is the correct intersection, then he did turn onto a one way from another one way. I don't know the answer; I just wanted to understand the question. HAHA! The left lanes have green arrows for traffic lights. Would that matter?

Congress St boston ma atlantic ave - Google Maps


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

RickW said:


> There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red.





kwflatbed said:


> It is not a member.
> 
> PriceWaterhouseCoopers, LLP


The PriceWaterhouseCoopers website has a section called "About Us," which says, in part:



> "We are committed to serving as a force for integrity, good sense and wise solutions to the problems facing businesses
> and the capital markets today. . . . We call that approach Connected Thinking.


As *RickW *demonstrates, "Connected Thinking" is when you stick your head up your ass so far that your head gets connected 
to your chest and you're too twisted to think straight at all.

It's very scary to think that guys like him are working at companies like PWC. No wonder the economy sucks.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

This is one of those 'deceiving' posts, because it has: paragraphs, periods, quotations, and general syntax... So it kind of lulls you into a false sense of security like: "hey. this could actually make sense" then BLAM! Complete mind-fuck.


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

I too am one of the confused here....

So, in general, if you're on a one way street then left on red applies? I've heard of right on red if it's not posted, but not left. 

I would think that you could only turn left on red (if that's allowed at all) if you were turning onto another one way, otherwise you're cutting off traffic.


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

mtc said:


> Hey - in Boston we do anything and everything to screw up the visitors!!


Quite well done too at that. The mister couldn't get his mind around turning right on red and he was definitely odd out in Boston. He wants to try driving here when he comes back this weekend. Thank God I live in Billerica . He has an international driving license but has never driven while he's over. Plus his own stick shift is of course reversed from mine....should prove interesting.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

Boston Irish Lass said:


> Quite well done too at that. The mister couldn't get his mind around turning right on red and he was definitely odd out in Boston. He wants to try driving here when he comes back this weekend. Thank God I live in Billerica . He has an international driving license but has never driven while he's over. Plus his own stick shift is of course reversed from mine....should prove interesting.


There is no such thing as an international drivers license. Make sure he has his ORIGINAL from home, and in his direct possession while driving.


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

5-0 said:


> There is no such thing as an international drivers license. Make sure he has his ORIGINAL from home, and in his direct possession while driving.


I thank you for that. I just looked it up online. I completely misunderstood what he had told me about it. He had mentioned it one night on the phone and I didn't question him. I assumed incorrectly that it was something different.

He does indeed have his own license.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

Boston Irish Lass said:


> I thank you for that. I just looked it up online. I completely misunderstood what he had told me about it. He had mentioned it one night on the phone and I didn't question him. I assumed incorrectly that it was something different.
> 
> He does indeed have his own license.


I just didn't want him to experience what we affectionately call: 'The Michael Graham'. Screw you Mikey!


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

"There is no "no turn on red" sign present. I make a left turn on red."

*There is no "no turn on red" sign present. *Why did you turn?


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

Update:

Sorry you all couldn't figure this question out.

I figured that there would be some cops in this forum. Definitely no Boston cops or troopers.

FIRST - I am trying to avoid a ticket. No, I don't have one and haven't for years. (Yes there are Boston drivers with a conscience - albeit not many.)

Clarification to help you understand (Those that need it. I'l bet some of you understand but are afraid to admit that they are that smart).

Congress turns from being a one way street to a two way street at Atlantic avenue (northbound). If I am sitting on Congress (on the one way street side) in the left curb lane and make a left turn onto Atlantic Ave northbound (one way also) while yielding to everyone and their brother.

Is it legal?

SOOooooo. I was warned not to ask stupid questions or I would hear about it and so this is a little complicated and you know what I think...

Ya'll don't know the answer. (clearly you can read and write!).

Take care and thanks for nothing so far....


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

There is no "no turn on red" sign present. Why did you turn?

There is no sign there. Please read carefully.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

5-0 said:


> I just didn't want him to experience what we affectionately call: 'The Michael Graham'. Screw you Mikey!


Mikey boy was arrested by one of our brand new "boots"

Too bad Mike, you will pay the fines just like the rest of them. I am sick and tired of hearing youcry about it on 96.6


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Jeepy said:


> It's very scary to think that guys like him are working at companies like PWC. No wonder the economy sucks.


And he'll still get a yearly bonus.


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

SPINMASS said:


> He left out the part about getting stopped and issued a citation but clearly it is the root of this thread.


No ticket. Trying to avoid one.

Need an answer from someone who knows.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

OfficerObie59 said:


> And he'll still get a yearly bonus.


Less the fine, and insurance surcharges


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

263FPD said:


> Less the fine, and insurance surcharges


No bonus this year. No layoffs either. Doing our best to keep everyone.

BTW - no tickets either.


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

mtc said:


> Then what was this excersize in semantics ?


I actually responded and clarified but because I'm new the system will not post my first 5 responses until they are reviewed. So we have to wait.

Sorry.


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

RickW said:


> I actually responded and clarified but because I'm new the system will not post my first 5 responses until they are reviewed. So we have to wait.
> 
> Sorry.


In the meantime Rick... I suggest that you start dispensing some
post thanks to everyone who read your original soup sandwich of a thread. :woot:


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

mtc said:


> Then what was this excersize in semantics ?


I think maybe he *was* looking for an opinion from one of us. I vaguely remember some one telling me that left on red from one-way onto a
one-way was OK after stop. I have never stopped any one for doing it, nor have I ever seen anyone do it. Hence, I never even looked it up in my reference book.



RickW said:


> No bonus this year. No layoffs either. Doing our best to keep everyone.
> 
> BTW - no tickets either.


My advise to you when it comes to traffic laws, if in doubt tread on a side of caution. You might think you are right, but some with pen and a cite book will not share your opinion. I have been on the other side ofthe pen before, I bet most of us here have been. In those days I thought I was right, I challenged the system, and I lost. I finally finished paying all of my surcharged points about a month after I got out of the academy


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## Guest (Jun 9, 2009)

CHAPTER 89. LAW OF THE ROAD

Chapter 89: Section 8. Right-of-way at intersecting ways; turning on red signals

Section 8. When two vehicles approach or enter an intersection of any ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, at approximately the same instant, the operator of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the vehicle on the right. Any operator intending to turn left, in an intersection, across the path or lane of vehicles approaching from the opposite direction shall, before turning, yield the right-of-way until such time as the left turn can be made with reasonable safety. Any operator of a vehicle entering a rotary intersection shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle already in the intersection. The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply when an operator is otherwise directed by a police officer, or by a traffic regulating sign, device or signal lawfully erected and maintained in accordance with the provisions of section two of chapter eighty-five and, where so required with the written approval of the department of highways and while such approval is in effect.

At any intersection on ways, as defined in section one of chapter ninety, in which vehicular traffic is facing a steady red indication in a traffic control signal, the driver of a vehicle which is stopped as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk or the near side of the intersections or, if none, then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to such red or stop signal, may make either (1) a right turn or *(2) if on a one-way street may make a left turn to another one-way street, but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at said intersection, except that a city or town, subject to section two of chapter eighty-five, by rules, orders, ordinances, or by-laws, and the department of highways on state highways or on ways at their intersections with a state highway, may prohibit any such turns against a red or stop signal at any such intersection, and such prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof. *Any person who violates the provisions of this paragraph shall be punished by a fine of not less than thirty-five dollars.
M.G.L. - Chapter 89, Section 8

It is plain and simple. Left turn from a one way on to a one way is good to go. It does not matter what is going on at the next block. The next block is a two way, Godzilla is taking a shit, Ted Kennedy is dumping a body. It does not matter. Unless prohibited by a posted sign, MGL 89/8 will cover you on the turn made safely.


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## RickW (Jun 9, 2009)

263FPD said:


> I think maybe he *was* looking for an opinion from one of us. I vaguely remember some one telling me that left on red from one-way onto a
> one-way was OK after stop. I havenever stoppedany one for doing it,nor have I ever seen anyone do it. Hence, I never even lookedit up in my reference book.


Yes! Thank you before I get a ticket.

The clarification is that Congress street turns from a one way street at Atlantic Ave. to a two way (on the other side of the intersection). So even though I am sitting in the left curb lane on the one way side of the intersection at a red light and yielding to everybody and their brother, I am facing traffic on the far side of the intersection because the other side is 2 way.

The rules (the way I read them....) do not say that the intersection must be a "through" one way street. It states that I need to be "on" or "from" a one way street. I am "on" a one way street.

So will I get a ticket? (No I have not yet and don't want one - I haven't had one for many years.)

Meanwhile, I get a newbie warning not to ask dumb posts. I ask a difficult question and no one replies with other than insults. Maybe they don't know??

Thanks in advance for any kind advise you can lend.


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

RickW said:


> There is no "no turn on red" sign present. Why did you turn?
> 
> There is no sign there. Please read carefully.


Figured it was a typo based on your oddly worded rant.


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

It's not that your question is too difficult, it's that it is only clear to yourself because you know what you're asking. 

For the record - the post directly above your last one answered your question.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

RickW said:


> Yes! Thank you before I get a ticket.
> 
> The clarification is that Congress street turns from a one way street at Atlantic Ave. to a two way (on the other side of the intersection). So even though I am sitting in the left curb lane on the one way side of the intersection at a red light and yielding to everybody and their brother, I am facing traffic on the far side of the intersection because the other side is 2 way.
> 
> ...


Cool it Rick, I was one of very few that had not kicked you in the balls for your question. I did not know the answer, and I posted as such. Like I said, I never have utilized this law, so I had no answer, however, MSP posted the law for you just a few minutes ago, so your question now stands as asked and answered.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

RickW said:


> So will I get a ticket? (No I have not yet and don't want one - I haven't had one for many years.)


Is it against the law? I'd say no. Can you get a ticket for it? Maybe, if I'm not the cop writing you.

None of us have any idea what may be going through the mind of an officer belonging to the hodge podge of police agancies with jurisdiction that commonly roam through that area.

The law says its okay, IMO. Another cop may or may not think so; hence why we have courts. I'd say it's legal, and the judge might as well.

I have debates about guys on my job all the time about laws (like whether one can make a right on red when that red is a right arrow light). We don't always agree on laws that haven't been clarified by courts, and enforce these laws using a healthy dose of descretion.

We're not the judge and jury at the roadside--that's why tickets have an appeal process. No one here will ever be able to give you an answer to such a question.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Question answered thread closed


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