# Age Limit



## cal1nu

Will the state police ever raise the age from 35 to 40 just like Boston police did recently? Why do some state police have no age limits like New Hampshire and Connecticut?


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## Guest

*YOU* might be 40 by the time the next RTT starts !!!!!!!!!!


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## Hawk19

mtc said:


> Boston Police raised it because they found they have no recruit base within the city.
> 
> NH and CT don't have the way cool uniforms that MA does... MA is in higher demand!!
> 
> (please note there is a tone of sarcasm implied here.... but you can't hear it)


Hey, some people _do_ want to dress like they're going to invade Poland any day now...


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## BRION24

I don't think that they will ever raise the age to 40 due to the fact that if someone starts at 40 then their going to be 60 by the time they are able to retire.


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## KEVDEMT

mtc said:


> Boston Police raised it *because they found they have no recruit base within the city*.


i wonder if that is in any way related to the astoundingly ridiculous rule that requires you to be a resident for a year *prior* to even taking the test to get on and to maintain that residency if appointed???


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## TopCop24

Hawk19 said:


> Hey, some people _do_ want to dress like they're going to invade Poland any day now...


Someone has clearly seen The Departed


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## OfficerObie59

Hawk19 said:


> Hey, some people _do_ want to dress like they're going to invade Poland any day now...





TopCop24 said:


> Someone has clearly seen The Departed


Not for nothing, a friend of mine about ten years ago told me that Hitler actaully used MSP's uniforms as a template for the SS. While the timelines make sense, I've never been able to verify the story.


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## Tuna

OfficerObie59 said:


> Not for nothing, a friend of mine about ten years ago told me that Hitler actaully used MSP's uniforms as a template for the SS. While the timelines make sense, I've never been able to verify the story.


You got that the other way around. Someone from Ma. saw the SA uniforms at the Olympics during the 30's. Used that as a template for MSP. They also saw the Stoogers episode where they were dictaters from Moronica. Then they designed the EPO management uniform.:baby13:


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## SinePari

Purely fiction. The original uniforms were designed for mounted and eventually motor cops using breaches and boots to fit over them. The cross strap is a functional piece to hold up the weapon (before keepers were made) and including the hat the entire uniform was fairly consistent with most mounted police departments at the time. Now throw in a black leather trench coat in the mix...

As far as the age goes if there's no retirement age, it's nearly impossible to legally enforce a maximum hiring age. If you're over 35 press the issue and see how far it gets you.

Viva SPARA!


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## PBiddy35

mtc said:


> Boston Police raised it because they found they have no recruit base within the city. quote]
> 
> Oh contraire, there are plenty of qualified applicants that did not Max out on the somewhat arbitrary and unexplained scoring system of the new CS. Must just be a coincidence that they're getting some undesirables in they're first couple classes. Perhaps the test isn't the perfection its claimed to be.


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## cal1nu

*Hi, I'm 35 years old now, how can I press the issue any further if the age criteria is listed as one of the requirement for the exam. Please see below. *

*TROOPER, MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE TEST INFORMATION*







*POSITION REQUIREMENTS
FOR TROOPER*

To be considered for appointment as a trooper, applicants must pass an entrance examination. An Examination Preparation Guide is available for download on the HRD website.
Candidates for appointment must meet the following requirements:​
High school diploma or G.E.D
Ability to obtain a valid Massachusetts firearms license
At least 21 years old and less than 35 years old by April 1, 2009



SinePari said:


> Purely fiction. The original uniforms were designed for mounted and eventually motor cops using breaches and boots to fit over them. The cross strap is a functional piece to hold up the weapon (before keepers were made) and including the hat the entire uniform was fairly consistent with most mounted police departments at the time. Now throw in a black leather trench coat in the mix...
> 
> As far as the age goes if there's no retirement age, it's nearly impossible to legally enforce a maximum hiring age. If you're over 35 press the issue and see how far it gets you.
> 
> Viva SPARA!


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## Hawk19

TopCop24 said:


> Someone has clearly seen The Departed


I have seen that, but i've been saying it for years.

My middle school teachers used to stress WWI & WWII history, and i've never seen anyone wear a cross strap besides the Nazis, British Army, or the MSP.


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## Deuce

Hawk19 said:


> I have seen that, but i've been saying it for years.
> 
> My middle school teachers used to stress WWI & WWII history, and i've never seen anyone wear a cross strap besides the Nazis, British Army, or the MSP.


Tool.. Go back to reading pop-ups and watching cartoons...


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## SinePari

cal1nu said:


> *Hi, I'm 35 years old now, how can I press the issue any further if the age criteria is listed as one of the requirement for the exam. *


Contact a labor attorney.



Hawk19 said:


> My middle school teachers used to stress WWI & WWII history, and i've never seen anyone wear a cross strap besides the Nazis, British Army, or the MSP.


Oh, since you're too friggin' lazy to search, there are about 30 different state agencies that use them in field or dress. One of them happens to be our neighbor to the south.



Another one to our north...










And yet another one with the purple tie...


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## Hawk19

I half-concede.

On the one hand, yes, those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis.

On the other hand, i've never actually seen them myself, despite driving through their states on a regular basis. Did *all* of these organizations adopt their uniforms decades ago, when it was apparently in fashion?


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## kwflatbed

There are other threads on the uniforms do a search.


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## SinePari

Hawk19 said:


> I half-concede.
> 
> On the one hand, yes, those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis.
> 
> On the other hand, i've never actually seen them myself, despite driving through their states on a regular basis. Did *all* of these organizations adopt their uniforms decades ago, when it was apparently in fashion?


Again, MANY departments used traditional military-style breeches and boots which were functional for mounted and eventually, motor officers. There was also a surplus of military uniforms for fledgling police departments on shoe-string budgets. The Nazi reference is just pulp fiction.


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## KozmoKramer

Hawk19 said:


> On the one hand, yes, those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis.


Well that's a fairly insulting comment to make Hawk.
Not they "resemble Nazi uniforms", or "there is a similarity", but "those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis"? That is your commentary?
I find that a pretty offensive comment.


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## HuskyH-2

KozmoKramer said:


> Well that's a fairly insulting comment to make Hawk.
> Not they "resemble Nazi uniforms", or "there is a similarity", but "those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis"? That is your commentary?
> I find that a pretty offensive comment.


*cough*.......awkward lol

Am I the only one who likes the uniforms? I like MSP maybe because of familiarity, but i think RISP uniform is also pretty nice.


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## 7costanza

> Am I the only one who likes the uniforms?


Personally I love the MSP uniforms and my understanding is that they are thought of as one of the best uniforms in LE..along with the MSP themselves.( and no im not trying to kiss ass..ive always thought that since I was a little kid.)


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## HistoryHound

Hawk19 said:


> I half-concede.
> 
> On the one hand, yes, those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis.
> 
> On the other hand, i've never actually seen them myself, despite driving through their states on a regular basis. Did *all* of these organizations adopt their uniforms decades ago, when it was apparently in fashion?


Please do a little research before you start promoting opinion and/or fantasy as historical fact. I beg you to pick up a book & educate yourself on a topic before you say something foolish (again).


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## fra444

> Well that's a fairly insulting comment to make Hawk.
> Not they "resemble Nazi uniforms", or "there is a similarity", but "those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis"? That is your commentary?
> I find that a pretty offensive comment.


I agree Koz! I am sitting infront of a pic of an excellent RI town Police Officer. The picture is on a poster regarding a Memorial Benefit for that officer and he was not and I'm SURE none of the officers he worked with are Nazi's. Disrespectful as hell chicken hawk!


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## KozmoKramer

TrooperzSon]Am I the only one who likes the uniforms?[/quote]
I seriously doubt it Troopers Son. I think it's a great looking uniform. And I thought I read somewhere that the MSP uniforms won a "Best Dressed" award.
We've had past discussions where people have mentioned they really like them said:


> Personally I love the MSP uniforms and my understanding is that they are thought of as one of the best uniforms in LE..along with the MSP themselves.


I would agree with that 7.


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## Hawk19

KozmoKramer said:


> Well that's a fairly insulting comment to make Hawk.
> Not they "resemble Nazi uniforms", or "there is a similarity", but "those troopers are also all dressed like Nazis"? That is your commentary?
> I find that a pretty offensive comment.


I should've been more clear. That's on me. I never meant to insinuate nazi-like behavior or idealology, but that cross-strap reminds me of... the nazi party. That's it.


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## kwflatbed

Hawk19 said:


> I should've been more clear. That's on me. I never meant to insinuate nazi-like behavior or idealology, but that cross-strap reminds me of... the nazi party. That's it.


And with each post you are making yourself more of an idiot.


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## Killjoy

The MSP winter field uniform is merely a derivation of the Army Cavalry uniform from the early 20th century. Notice the cross-strap, it was used by all Army dress uniforms until shortly before the end of WWII.










Tall boots and riding breeches have been used in cavalry type uniform for decades before that:










The first uniforms of the MSP were in fact surplus WWI cavalry uniforms, which were worn from 1921 to 1935. At that point they were superseded by the French & Electric blue uniforms, which are still worn today as the winter field uniform and dress uniform. Originally the dress uniform was the winter uniform, and the winter field uniform was worn the rest of the year. In the early 70's the short sleeve uniform with trousers and campaign cover became the _summer field uniform_ and the breeches and long sleeve uniform with the field cover became the _winter field uniform._ Wearing the former winter blouse, with season-appropriate cover, and white gloves became the _dress uniform or class-A uniform_.

Many military services throughout the 19th century to early 20th century wore the combination of breeches or jodhpurs with tall boots along with the cross strap. So did many police departments.



















The MSP was not "copying" Nazi uniforms, nor were the Nazis "copying" the MSP uniform, as some allege. The MSP came in being in 1921, long before the Nazis ever came to power. The MSP was simply following military traditions in the design and implementation of their uniform in their paramilitary organization. In the same sense, the Wehrmacht, and SS were merely following the military fashions of their day in the designs of their uniforms. It was only after WWII and the recognition of the final demise of horse-cavalry that the breeches and boot uniforms fell out of fashion. Likewise he belt-keeper design sounded the death-knell for the practical wearing of cross-straps, which until then had the very practical function of helping to carry the weight of the pistol. Now cross straps serve only an ornamental function.


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## Hawk19

Killjoy said:


> The MSP was not "copying" Nazi uniforms, nor were the Nazis "copying" the MSP uniform, *as some allege*. The MSP came in being in 1921, long before the Nazis ever came to power. The MSP was simply following military traditions in the design and implementation of their uniform in their paramilitary organization. In the same sense, the Wehrmacht, and SS were merely following the military fashions of their day in the designs of their uniforms. It was only after WWII and the recognition of the final demise of horse-cavalry that the breeches and boot uniforms fell out of fashion. Likewise he belt-keeper design sounded the death-knell for the practical wearing of cross-straps, which until then had the very practical function of helping to carry the weight of the pistol. Now cross straps serve only an ornamental function.


Very well written, Killjoy. I was never one of those who alleged there was any "copying" involved. Just pointing out many people don't seem to associate that style with that era's US Army, or the MSP. It seems to remind some of us of the Nazis. Obviously the look is staying for good. Anyone know if there was actually an effort to change it at any point?


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## Killjoy

> Anyone know if there was actually an effort to change it at any point?


Not since the 1930's. The MSP is an organization cloaked in tradition. Some on the MSP believe we should alter the uniform to a more practical design, while others cry heresy at this thought. The debate in ongoing, but I don't think there is going to be any uniform changes in the near future.


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## HuskyH-2

Killjoy said:


> Not since the 1930's. The MSP is an organization cloaked in tradition. Some on the MSP believe we should alter the uniform to a more practical design, while others cry heresy at this thought. The debate in ongoing, but I don't think there is going to be any uniform changes in the near future.


Just curious, where do you stand, for an overhaul to the uniforms or with the traditional look.


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## TopCop24

TrooperzSon said:


> Just curious, where do you stand, for an overhaul to the uniforms or with the traditional look.


Boots, breaches, cross-strap year round just switch out the shirts and cover. My guess is most will disagree with me, but I don't mind the winter uniform at all.


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## StbbrnMedic

Killjoy said:


> Not since the 1930's. The MSP is an organization cloaked in tradition. Some on the MSP believe we should alter the uniform to a more practical design, while others cry heresy at this thought. The debate in ongoing, *but I don't think there is going to be any uniform changes in the near future*.


I hope not. I love the uniform.


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## OfficerObie59

SinePari said:


> One of them happens to be our neighbor to the south.


Anyone remember in recent memory when these guys used to carry the sidearms in a suicide cross draw, similar to the way one would draw a sword? Now that's hardcore.


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## fra444

StbbrnMedic said:


> I hope not. I love the uniform.


I'm leaving that one alone!!!


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## StbbrnMedic

fra444 said:


> I'm leaving that one alone!!!


I do! It's sharp looking.

Shut up Fra!!!


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## Killjoy

> Just curious, where do you stand, for an overhaul to the uniforms or with the traditional look.


I love the winter field uniform for its looks, but quite frankly, it sucks for patrol. Get into a foot pursuit and try to jump a fence wearing it.

Ask a ten troopers and you'll get ten different answers.

On that note I love the winter field cover and hate the summer campaign cover. Sure it looks good, but there is probably no piece of equipment less well designed for use on the side of a highway.


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## Hawk19

Killjoy said:


> I love the winter field uniform for its looks, but quite frankly, it sucks for patrol. Get into a foot pursuit and try to jump a fence wearing it.


Strap too restraining, or is it something else?


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## SinePari

Love it or hate it, that uniform helps get 20,000 hopefuls in the seats to take the exam every time it's offered.


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## Maj. Dick

KEVDEMT said:


> i wonder if that is in any way related to the astoundingly ridiculous rule that requires you to be a resident for a year *prior* to even taking the test to get on and to maintain that residency if appointed???


 It is directly related. (This is a bit off topic) Boston even hired out of city residents off the last test meaning a resident of some other city put Boston down as one of their selections and got a card. Boston has hired down to the score of 70 many times. The funny thing is that if the people who scored under 90 didn't live in the city they would never be hired in any other dept in the state with that score. I don't know anybody that got on the job that even scored below 90 except in Boston. Scoring 100 on the civil service test doesn't make you smart but scoring 70 makes you dumb as shit. It would only make sense if they got rid of the residency requirement and simply made it like every other city they would get better candidates.


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## 78thrifleman

7costanza said:


> Personally I love the MSP uniforms and my understanding is that they are thought of as one of the best uniforms in LE..along with the MSP themselves.( and no im not trying to kiss ass..ive always thought that since I was a little kid.)


I personally think the MSP has - without a doubt - the best uniforms and cruisers in the country (at least for State police) - with the New Hampshire State Police cruisers coming in a close second.

But I could be biased



TopCop24 said:


> Boots, breaches, cross-strap year round just switch out the shirts and cover. My guess is most will disagree with me, but I don't mind the winter uniform at all.


I agree, though I feel like a short sleeved shirt might look out of place with the rest.



Hawk19 said:


> Strap too restraining, or is it something else?


Most of us wear breakaway buckes on the cross strap, so it wouldn't be an issue of that.
He's probably referring to the breeches. There's no room in the knees.



OfficerObie59 said:


> Not for nothing, a friend of mine about ten years ago told me that Hitler actaully used MSP's uniforms as a template for the SS. While the timelines make sense, I've never been able to verify the story.


Incidentally... Jesus originally used the MSP design as a template, but due to the lack of chlorino factories back then (to supply the finish for the leather gear), he was forced to go with the robe.


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## Guest

Killjoy said:


> The MSP winter field uniform is merely a derivation of the Army Cavalry uniform from the early 20th century. Notice the cross-strap, it was used by all Army dress uniforms until shortly before the end of WWII.


The tall (riding) boots were also a functional piece of equipment; the raised inseam of regular pants could irritate the side of the horse over time, resulting in raw sores. The smooth leather of the boots did not cause irritation to the skin of the horse, which is why the seams of riding boots are in the back.



78thrifleman said:


> I agree, though I feel like a short sleeved shirt might look out of place with the rest.


I wore the breeches, boots, and cross strap with short sleeves when I was on the mounted unit, and it looked fine.



78thrifleman said:


> Incidentally... Jesus originally used the MSP design as a template, but due to the lack of chlorino factories back then (to supply the finish for the leather gear), he was forced to go with the robe.


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## Hawk19

SinePari said:


> Love it or hate it, that uniform helps get 20,000 hopefuls in the seats to take the exam every time it's offered.


The fact that the troopers make good-to great pay helps too... http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/07/pay_exceeds_140000_for_hundreds_of_troopers/

So does the test not being offered for several years.


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## fra444

Did you seriously just post a cop bashing article?! If your looking to do this job for the money your out of your F*ING MIND! They are looking to reduce my pay by $250 per week, take my health insurance, mess with my retirement, and more than likely take some of my friends jobs away! I could see what Sine says as being more of a reason to sign up than money!


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## Hawk19

fra444 said:


> Did you seriously just post a cop bashing article?! If your looking to do this job for the money your out of your F*ING MIND! They are looking to reduce my pay by $250 per week, take my health insurance, mess with my retirement, and more than likely take some of my friends jobs away! I could see what Sine says as being more of a reason to sign up than money!


I think that article's overbiased, just couldn't find a webpage listing salaries of troopers. No, i'm not interested in law enforcement for the money. How can they even take your health insurance, when the health insurance law requires every employer to provide it? Are they trying to foist some crappy new coverage off on your dept.?


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## dcs2244

The MSP uniform is derived from the French artillary officers uniform in use during the World War, Part I. General Foote liked the uniform and when circumstances permitted, changed over from the dark green/red field scarf army surplus uniforms originally worn by the MSP. Originally, only the commissioned officers were issued the field boots; enlisted state police officers/non-coms wore low boots with puttees ('trooper' was not the official rank until the 1950's). In any event, boots/breeches and blouse were the world wide uniform style during the early 20th century.


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## fra444

Hawk19 said:


> How can they even take your health insurance, when the health insurance law requires every employer to provide it? Are they trying to foist some crappy new coverage off on your dept.?


Poorly expressed on my part. They are attempting to change my health insurance. The law requires that you the average person has health insurance not that your employer supply it.


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## kwflatbed

Hawk19 said:


> The fact that the troopers make good-to great pay helps too... http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/02/07/pay_exceeds_140000_for_hundreds_of_troopers/
> 
> So does the test not being offered for several years.


Hawk STFU or take a seat on the bus last warning from me.


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## KozmoKramer

2 week vacation boys.
Next one will be permanent.


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## kwflatbed

I thnk copyboy could use a vacation too.


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## KozmoKramer

He's the creep that insulted GMack right?


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## kwflatbed

Right


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## Guest

KozmoKramer said:


> He's the creep that insulted GMack right?


Yup.....put his bus fare on my tab.


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## NoSoupForYou

How are those big boots for running in? I can't imagine they're much help chasing some kid wearing jordans...


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## fra444

KozmoKramer said:


> 2 week vacation boys.
> Next one will be permanent.


Kinda like being a kid, dad puts you on restriction you better learn from it OR ELSE!!!

Thx Koz!


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## KozmoKramer

All set. Coppyboy; drivers side, 4th row, window seat.

You got it Fra.


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## OfficerObie59

78thrifleman said:


> Incidentally... Jesus originally used the MSP design as a template, but due to the lack of chlorino factories back then (to supply the finish for the leather gear), he was forced to go with the robe.


LOL. Okay, I get it. I accept my penace for relaying something stupid.



Maj. Dick said:


> Scoring 100 on the civil service test doesn't make you smart but scoring 70 makes you dumb as shit.


I hear what you're saying within the meaning of how deep Boston's dug.

But I take issue with that line. About 12 years ago, long before I got on, my dept. dug real deep on the list on a major hiring binge, hiring some guys a the bottom of the passing scores within the veteran's preference. Those guys have shown to be just as worthy and intelligent on the street as guys who got higher scores; one of them in particular has been a huge mentor to me on my department. Some guys just don't test well.


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## 78thrifleman

OfficerObie59 said:


> LOL. Okay, I get it. I accept my penace for relaying something stupid.
> 
> No penance necessary. I really just used your comment as a stepping stone for a joke before the 2 douchebags started mouthing off. Sometimes a comment is just a comment (like yours)... until an asshole starts mouthing off about salaries and the such.


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## 7costanza

I like the Uniform but cant help but be reminded of Jim Carey taking a dump on Steve Sweeneys lawn.


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## SinePari

7costanza said:


> I like the Uniform but cant help but be reminded of Jim Carey taking a dump on Steve Sweeneys lawn.


Sweeny is one of the best local comedians ever to grace the circuit along with Lenny Clark and Nick Dipaolo.


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## HuskyH-2

LawMan3 said:


> I love the RISP uniforms - They're very professional looking and look real squared away.


Aren't they, I like the leather one I believe it's a winter uniform. Never seen anything comparable to it. The grey cruisers aren't very appealing though, no offense to any RISP.


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## HuskyH-2

mikemac64 said:


> I like the "batman" gloves. They are certainly sharp and unique.


Little known fact, this RISP uniform was modeled after Michael Keaton's rendition of Batman. The hats of course originated with Smokey the Bear. The time lines add up perfectly.......


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## SgtAndySipowicz

KEVDEMT said:


> i wonder if that is in any way related to the astoundingly ridiculous rule that requires you to be a resident for a year *prior* to even taking the test to get on and to maintain that residency if appointed???


Couldn't be said any better. Age restrictions (I know many guys in their 40's that are in better shape than some 22 year olds and have a better head on their shoulders) and residency requirements serve NO BENEFIT to an agency. You limit your talent pool with such restrictions. I take pride in my profession (Police Officer) and want to work with the best of the best. When you limit your talent pool to the city/town in question, is this giving an agency the best chance at being able to hire the best of the best??? No. I work with guys that are all for that 1 year pre-test residency requirement. No one has ever given me a good argument why it is beneficial however. I just don't get some of the rules in Massachusetts.......


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