# MSP Patch on a civilian...



## TripleSeven (Aug 28, 2004)

Tonight while at work, the local PD was kind enough to give us one of their PC's, which happens to be a "frequent flyer" to the ER and us well known by is and the local police. He just came back from a 90 day vacation in Bridgewater from a Section 35 and I can remember a few times where I've squared off with him over the past two years. Anyways, on the right shoulder of his jacket tonight, he had a MA State Police patch sewed on. Its a disgrace to the MSP to have this guy wearing that. Are there any laws preventing civilians from openly wearing clothing with a LEO designation? BTW, this guy is not a Vet, and has never had any positive affiliation with the police.


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## sgtmvm (Jan 17, 2005)

Wouldn't this fall under the same C&amp;S as the law that, in effect, prohibits display of the MPA logo by non-members? I'll have to check past posts on the Forum, but I believe the law covered *ANY* display of logos recognized by the Commonwealth as "official" (which I would assume the MSP patch would be considered) by persons who are not members/affiliates of the agency or organization represented by the logo.

Did they charge the guy with anything based on that patch? Wondering if the jacket it was on looked remotely authentic enough to fool anyone...

Come to think of it, PC'ing him probably protected him from a good ass-whooping by the MSP-- they did the guy a favor!


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## sgtmvm (Jan 17, 2005)

c266S69: 

Section 69. Whoever, not being a member of a society, association or labor union, for the purpose of representing that he is a member thereof, willfully wears or uses the insignia, ribbon, badge, rosette, button or emblem thereof, if it has been registered in the office of the state secretary, shall be punished by a fine of not more than twenty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than one month, or both.


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## copcar65 (Aug 16, 2004)

I believe that section would apply only if he was wearing the SPAM logo. The MSP patch is not the logo of a labor organization.
The following section could be used for local badges but I think patches would be a stretch.
Chapter 268: Section 35 Unauthorized use of town seal; making or possessing badge of town officer

Section 35. Whoever, without being duly authorized thereto, prints, stamps, engraves or affixes, or causes to be printed, stamped, engraved or affixed to any paper or other article a representation of the seal of a town in the commonwealth, with intent to give to such paper or article an official character which it does not possess, or, without being duly authorized thereto, and with intent to assume an official character which he does not possess, casts, stamps, engraves, makes or has in his possession a badge or thing in the likeness of an official badge of a police officer, member of a fire department, or other officer appointed by a town in the commonwealth, or by any department of such town, shall be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars.


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## popo (Apr 1, 2005)

Seriously, who gives a shit. What are you going to do, summons him for a $20 fine and look like an ass in court. The guy sounds like he's a nut, let him be. He's not stopping cars with blue lights is he? And that Chapter and Section for societies is BS, I saw it used once in court and everyone laughed at it, the officer that charged the guy , six years later, is still being laughed at and his reputation diminshed. He is remebered as THAT GUY. Becareful what you do, just because something is on the books ,don't go charging it. Just like the Sheriffs, because some ancient law says they have some power, they think they are troopers with SWAT vehicles and whatnot. Catch some real criminals, that's what you are being paid to do. My :2c: :sb: Now I'm getting off my soapbox. :lol:


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## stm4710 (Jul 6, 2004)

There is a guy within my district that wears a turnout coat at a DD my dept. frequents. He live across the street in a group home for mental people. He talks in to a scanner and just sits there for hours the lady told me and likes to say hi to the firefighter and cops that come in. Yeah he does have bunker coat, but I am not worried cause any civy that had half a brain cell would know he is not for real.


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## TripleSeven (Aug 28, 2004)

I'm not saying that any LEO should waste their time charging him with anything, just rip the patch off the jacket. When he's sober, he is somewhat normal and the jacket is plain leather, but it does have several patches on it, including "Airborne" and all that type stuff and the guy is not a vet. I just think he's crossing the line... if he wanted to be MSP or a Ranger, then he should have chosen another career path other than drinking a bottle of vodka or listerine, landing himself in PC on a weekly basis, and then expecting everyone to feel sorry for him.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

Switch to decaf my man...its only a patch!! Rip the patch off?? Come on now...obviously he's a dope. You are letting a patch of cloth on an idiot fire you up!! Not worth it...


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## Irishpride (May 5, 2002)

I have guys come into my work all the time with military/police/fire insignia and patches on. Have fun with it ask them questions about it (i.e.; Where did you do to basic? You were in the Army and the Marines, which did you do 1st? What did you like most about the service? ect, ect, ect) the more time you spend doing this the less time you will spend "squaring off" against some wasted Sec. 12 who probably has Hep A through Z and smells like a dumpster in August. Just my 2 cents.

As far as the patch goes, as long as he is not using it as a tool to impersonate a public official it is essentially harmless.


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## TripleSeven (Aug 28, 2004)

Switch to decaf??? NEVER! 

Not fired up at all actually... just thought it was a disgrace to MSP. I guess its no different than non leo's with blue line plates and stickers. BTW, the times I have had to wrassle him it was when he sucked down a bottle of Cool Mint Listerine and wanted to go for the championship. All about keepin the peace here. Thanks for the replies


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

And how do you react when you see people wearing hats with MSP patches on them? Or with a row of MSP, NYPD, USMC, etc. hats across the back window of their car?

Tons of people have these hats, patches, etc. Some like to plaster them on jackets, some deck out their cars. Don't know if MSP officially sells any of these things to civilians or not, but it is no big deal and totally meaningless unless someone is actually using them to pretend to be someone they are not. In the case that someone has multiple police and/or military patches on a jacket, that would be prima fascia evidence that they were NOT trying to use them as "ID" for something that they are not.

If you actually ripped a patch off someone's jacket, you could expect the possibility of some civil or criminal litigation, with yourself named as the defendant. Certainly NOT worth it to make a point.

I'd advise to just ignore it.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

If the guy's a nut-job, no big deal. I wouldn't rip the patch off (but that doesn't mean you can't mess with his head! 8) ). I reserve the ritual "ripping-off-of-the-patch" for bike-trash who have the patch sewn on upside down, indicating that they have kicked a cops ass (from that particular department). I don't know about you, but I'm more than happy to give the guy a redux...then rip the patch off (and call an ambulance for him! :twisted: )!


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## tellyour (Sep 26, 2004)

I am pretty sure the MSP doesn't care that people wear their patch. I mean, at the 77th graduation they were selling clothes with the patch all over them.


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## TripleSeven (Aug 28, 2004)

LenS,

I don't react at all when I see people wearing NYPD, USMC clothing... I started the thread because this guy is a waste of air and the fact that he wears MSP apparel is odd. Its not like he supports MA Police agencies... Anyways, my question has been answered, thanks


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## PATS246 (Jun 19, 2003)

In our town we used to have a guy who was about 30+years old and when there was a fire he would get on his bicycle wearing his own fire department gear.... jacket, boots, and helmet... with scanner on his belt and flashing red light. Some people do it for idot reasons, some people do it because they dont have all their marbles.


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## JGH_7223 (Jan 11, 2005)

Irishpride";p="65169 said:


> I have guys come into my work all the time with military/police/fire insignia and patches on. Have fun with it ask them questions about it (i.e.; Where did you do to basic? You were in the Army and the Marines, which did you do 1st? What did you like most about the service? ect, ect, ect) the more time you spend doing this the less time you will spend "squaring off" against some wasted Sec. 12 who probably has Hep A through Z and smells like a dumpster in August. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> As far as the patch goes, as long as he is not using it as a tool to impersonate a public official it is essentially harmless.


This reminds me of a story. I am a Army veteran. This officer I work with was a Marine. We were processing a individual and noticed a Devil Dog tattoo on his leg. My partner inquired about the tattoo, the guy was dumbfounded. He had nothing to say.


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## JGH_7223 (Jan 11, 2005)

A friend of mine is a FireFighter in the city for which I live. A long time ago I asked him for a t-shirt. He told me that there was a picture on the front page of the newspaper of some scumbag that was running from the Police wearing the Department t-shirt and that the Union was cracking down on none department people getting them. Needless to say I never got the t-shirt.


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