# Police Reform (Part Timers)



## Foxy85

Anyone hear anything or know anything about the reform bill in regards to part time officers. Hearing things like they are not going to have them anymore (eliminating the use of them), to some sort of training to get them on par with FT requirements / hours...

Information online from Scheft is vague.


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## samadam78

I would assume it would be like other states with a POST system. NH for example limits the amount of total hours a PT officer can work in a year.


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## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone hear anything or know anything about the reform bill in regards to part time officers. Hearing things like they are not going to have them anymore (eliminating the use of them), to some sort of training to get them on par with FT requirements / hours...
> 
> Information online from Scheft is vague.


There are some depts in the Comm where the whole dept is part time including the chief. There are other such as my own that relies heavily on them to cover patrol shifts IE if a FT guy wants a day off we page it out to the part-timers first if there are no takers it gets offered to FT as over time if there are no takers the request in declined.


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## PG1911

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone hear anything or know anything about the reform bill in regards to part time officers. Hearing things like they are not going to have them anymore (eliminating the use of them), to some sort of training to get them on par with FT requirements / hours...
> 
> Information online from Scheft is vague.





samadam78 said:


> I would assume it would be like other states with a POST system. NH for example limits the amount of total hours a PT officer can work in a year.


As I said in the other thread, in PA they have a POST system (called MPOETC there) and both part and full time academies have the same amount of hours, with PT academy stretched out over a longer period of time. I believe Florida does the same thing. In PA, this hasn't changed the fact that the vast, _vast_ majority of PDs, including the ones surrounding big cities like Philly and Pittsburgh, heavily utilize part time officers.

Like in MA, there are some PDs where everybody, including the chief, is part time. But because everybody has the same training, everybody is on the same level of their full time counterparts.


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## NEPS

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone hear anything or know anything about the reform bill in regards to part time officers. Hearing things like they are not going to have them anymore (eliminating the use of them), to some sort of training to get them on par with FT requirements / hours...
> 
> Information online from Scheft is vague.


If the information is vague, that is because neither the Senate nor the House Bill is clear. The provisions in one or the other or both may not even make it into the actual law.

The Senate version seems to be least likely to continue the current system of part time training. (And, as PG1911 said above, some states have gone to requiring full and part time officers to attend the same "full time" academy.) The House version seems to talk about a standard for part time training among the four or five standards discussed. But BOTH bills contain a section saying that part time academy trained officers will be INITIALLY certified, and _during that first certified period will be required to attend additional training that is not described, but will be designed by the training agency_. So, some decisions seem as though they will be made by the training agency and the new certification authority, and we don't even know what that training agency and the certification authority will be, much less what decisions they will make.

That is, I assure you, as much as can be understood at this point from these two bills. They were written by legislators who are _not_ intimately familiar with our current part time training system (if you can call it a system) in which the state's police training agency has not actually trained any part time officers for a decade or two, but has left the job instead to regional chiefs' groups and private enterprises.


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## Foxy85

Shameless bump.

anyone heard anything new. Heard rumor of bridge academy. Then also recently heard that will NOT be happening. Which leads me to believe they will either grandfather us in or phase us out as we are unable to attend traditional FT academies?


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## RodneyFarva

Post wants every thing set to a standard so my theory is pt guys currently working will be grandfathers in and become post certified over night (kinda like the 94 state police merger with capital, registry. Metro and DMC police, over Night they all became troopers) as of July one this year when it takes effect. I do believe extra traing will happen but not as involved with a full time mptc academy. Any one wishing to become a police officer, be it full time or part-time, must have a full time mptc academy to work post July 1.


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## kpf94

RodneyFarva said:


> Post wants every thing set to a standard so my theory is pt guys currently working will be grandfathers in and become post certified over night (kinda like the 94 state police merger with capital, registry. Metro and DMC police, over Night they all became troopers) as of July one this year when it takes effect. I do believe extra traing will happen but not as involved with a full time mptc academy. Any one wishing to become a police officer, be it full time or part-time, must have a full time mptc academy to work post July 1.


I have heard this same thing, anybody with a reserve academy certificate dated before July 1, 2021 will be grandfathered into POST and not need to attend a full time academy while anybody seeking any type of law enforcement employment after July 1, 2021 would need to go through a full time MPTC academy even if they're only going to work in a reserve status.


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## j809

According to the Scheft handout it only states the initial certification for reserves will be ok for now. Once they have to renew they will need the additional training (ie full time academy)


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## kpf94

j809 said:


> According to the Scheft handout it only states the initial certification for reserves will be ok for now. Once they have to renew they will need the additional training (ie full time academy)
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What they're telling us in the reserve academy is that the bridge academy is going to be used for the reservists who will be grandfathered in, it'll be a mix of EVOC, firearms/DT, and then more in depth constitutional and criminal law.


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## Treehouse413

I think part timers will be a thing of the past . Law enforcement will cost $$$ the smaller communities that rely on them .


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## WMA7787

Smaller communities will need to start exploring their options and looking at sharing the cost of services. Im sure more and more will fall on the state police.


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## Goose

Treehouse413 said:


> I think part timers will be a thing of the past . Law enforcement will cost $$$ the smaller communities that rely on them .


Not necessarily. There will be folks that have a main job that want to stay involved whether they work for another agency, used to work FT, or have a full time non-LE gig and do the PT stuff on the side. Many states require the same training from part timers as they do full time officers and make no distinction in their training requirements. Basically either you're a certified police officer or you aren't.

How the smaller agencies that rely on part times remains to be seen - whether they do more self sponsors, hire, sponsor, and pay part timers to go through the academy, etc. In the end we will hopefully see more academy classes and evening classes to adapt to the educational requirements and demands. Other states do FT academies on nights and weekends, similar to what some reserve academies have been doing.


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## PG1911

Treehouse413 said:


> I think part timers will be a thing of the past . Law enforcement will cost $$$ the smaller communities that rely on them .


I doubt it. Part timers cost a lot less money. What WOULD end part timers is if they ended sponsorship and only allowed hired cadets to attend the academy; no department is going to drop thousands of dollars and wait 6 months for a guy to only work 20 hours a week.


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## mpd61

One thing is certain. We're ALL indulging in sheer speculation at this point. Nobody right now knows for certain where, when, or how this is going to shake out, till at least Summer or Fall.


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## CCCSD

I heard...


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## MiamiVice

Word is no new reserve/PT cops can be hired after 7/1, existing are grandfathered

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## RodneyFarva

Treehouse413 said:


> I think part timers will be a thing of the past. Law enforcement will cost $$$ the smaller communities that rely on them.


Maybe not MSP but I could see more departments explore the idea of regionalizing resources, it seems they have been testing the waters for this for this over the last several years with department like:

Wachusetts Regional Dispatch who cover for West Boylston, Holden and Princeton.

Rutland Regional Dispatch who covers Rutland, Barre, Hubbardston and Oakham.

Nashoba Valley Regional who have been dispatching for not just for several towns, Lunenburg, Lancaster, Harvard, Devens Community, Bolton, Berlin, Townsend as well as Devens Military Police and MSP (C9).



PG1911 said:


> I doubt it. Part timers cost a lot less money. What WOULD end part timers is if they ended sponsorship and only allowed hired cadets to attend the academy; no department is going to drop thousands of dollars and wait 6 months for a guy to only work 20 hours a week.


You are all correct but also keep in mind there would be a huge turnover rate. A smaller Town let us call it "Podunk, Ma" drops a chunk of change on a 21-year-old kid for the full-time academy only to have him/her bail after 6 months to go to a bigger municipality thus leaving the sponsoring town in the lurch and stuck with the bill.

I work only as a part-time LEO. The reason I can do this and remain financially stable is the fact Part-time police officers in my department have the first right of refusal for any all-open patrol shift. In exchange language was written into our union contract where full-time officers SHALL get offered ALL details first, if the detail cannot be filled by a full-time officer it is then paged out to the part-time officers and can then bid for the job.

Now on the flip side if a patrol shift cannot be filled with part-time officer it would be paged out to the full-time officers for overtime.

Now let us say if a patrol shift cannot be filled by either full or part-time officers, we will just drop down to one officer working alone the road, this can be either part-time or full-time guy. We normally try to run two guys per shift however we are down full-time position. I have been working there for some time now and I can count on one hand the times a full-time officer was ordered to stay. So, the idea of part-time jobs going away is highly unlikely at least in my department with all the vacation, personal, comp-time, sick time the full-time officers get per our union contract. All those open shifts would have to be filled by overtime, and most of the time that would be involuntary with officer who still have Quinn or a educational incentive.

And that's not mention open shifts due to full time vacancies, in-service training or if the detective, who also works patrol is working on an investigation they will call a third guy to cover.

That's a fuck load of a funding increase for just a 9 man full time police department in a town of about 3500 residents.


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## mpd61

I don't see the exact correlation between regional dispatch, and regional PD's. Dispatchers training and "liability" issues, coupled with staffing comparison doesn't equate to the sworn personnel requirements for regional PD. Nashoba is also having issues with at least two towns not happy and looking to leave. Devens doesn't have any MP's either.


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## Treehouse413

RodneyFarva said:


> Maybe not MSP but I could see more departments explore the idea of regionalizing resources, it seems they have been testing the waters for this for this over the last several years with department like:
> 
> Wachusetts Regional Dispatch who cover for West Boylston, Holden and Princeton.
> 
> Rutland Regional Dispatch who covers Rutland, Barre, Hubbardston and Oakham.
> 
> Nashoba Valley Regional who have been dispatching for not just for several towns, Lunenburg, Lancaster, Harvard, Devens Community, Bolton, Berlin, Townsend as well as Devens Military Police and MSP (C9).
> 
> You are all correct but also keep in mind there would be a huge turnover rate. A smaller Town let us call it "Podunk, Ma" drops a chunk of change on a 21-year-old kid for the full-time academy only to have him/her bail after 6 months to go to a bigger municipality thus leaving the sponsoring town in the lurch and stuck with the bill.
> 
> I work only as a part-time LEO. The reason I can do this and remain financially stable is the fact Part-time police officers in my department have the first right of refusal for any all-open patrol shift. In exchange language was written into our union contract where full-time officers SHALL get offered ALL details first, if the detail cannot be filled by a full-time officer it is then paged out to the part-time officers and can then bid for the job.
> 
> Now on the flip side if a patrol shift cannot be filled with part-time officer it would be paged out to the full-time officers for overtime.
> 
> Now let us say if a patrol shift cannot be filled by either full or part-time officers, we will just drop down to one officer working alone the road, this can be either part-time or full-time guy. We normally try to run two guys per shift however we are down full-time position. I have been working there for some time now and I can count on one hand the times a full-time officer was ordered to stay. So, the idea of part-time jobs going away is highly unlikely at least in my department with all the vacation, personal, comp-time, sick time the full-time officers get per our union contract. All those open shifts would have to be filled by overtime, and most of the time that would be involuntary with officer who still have Quinn or a educational incentive.
> 
> And that's not mention open shifts due to full time vacancies, in-service training or if the detective, who also works patrol is working on an investigation they will call a third guy to cover.
> 
> That's a fuck load of a funding increase for just a 9 man full time police department in a town of about 3500 residents.


You have to remember when laws are written generally they are not very well thought out . This may ended being a mandate which is unfunded by the state .


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## RodneyFarva

mpd61 said:


> I don't see the exact correlation between regional dispatch, and regional PD's. Dispatchers training and "liability" issues, coupled with staffing comparison doesn't equate to the sworn personnel requirements for regional PD. Nashoba is also having issues with at least two towns not happy and looking to leave. Devens doesn't have any MP's either.


Like I said I suspect its the powers to be testing the waters they have the mentality of "if it can work here, maybe we can use it in the field." I know a couple of small departments that with have 3 guys on days one of them being a sgt then a 4th who is the SRO, but as soon as the clock strikes midnight they have one officer on. 


mpd61 said:


> Nashoba is also having issues with at least two towns not happy and looking to leave.


 ...Shot in the dark, Townsend? are they still using their old DPW radios or have they since upgraded?


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## mpd61

Yes and no LOL!!!!!


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## USM C-2

Maybe we should take a good idea from Mississippi - if an academy graduate leaves the sponsoring department after less than two years, the new department has to reimburse the sponsoring department for the cost of the academy. 

I know we had to write that check a few times. And we got a few checks sent our way in exchange, so it most likely more or less evened out.


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## FAPD

Treehouse413 said:


> You have to remember when laws are written generally they are not very well thought out . This may ended being a mandate which is *unfunded* by the state .


DEFUND THE POLICE!!!!!
I knew it! a backdoor ploy by Michelle Wu, Rachel Rollins, Ayanna Presley and others of their ilk to end us........


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## EUPD377

Do towns that use MSP as their primary agency have to pay any sort of contract fee or anything to the state police, or is it free since they’re paid for through state taxes? Around here we don’t have state police per se, but the sheriff’s office patrols all the unincorporated areas of the county, and incorporated areas can choose to contract with them for law enforcement, but must pay a fee. Generally, it’s a little bit cheaper than what it would cost for their own PD, but the sheriff doesn’t provide law enforcement articles for incorporated area for free. If the state police were to cover the town for free, does the town have any incentive (besides more frequent patrols and shorter response time) to have their own PD?

As an interesting aside, by a quirk or state law here, the only people allowed to serve civil papers are sheriffs deputies and highway patrol troopers. There was one sheriffs office a couple years back that was so short on manpower due to low morale and high turnover, that they had to have the highway patrol serve civil papers in the county for them. The state charged the sheriffs office a pretty good fee for each process served and I believe ended up making a profit out of the deal.


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## AS4

So what about all the old timers that are on a campus PD that had a training course back in the day that totaled somewhere around 150 hours? I'm forgetting the names but the academies back in the day had a dismally low amount of total hours of training...

Our department has a hybrid of older officers who have a full time academy, several who have the reserve (back when the hours were lower), and some that have neither of those things but have an in house mini academy from the Boston Police. Unless they grandfather in officers who have been currently working in an LE capacity, a lot of departments will be screwed.


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## RodneyFarva

150 hours sounds right, I went to through the Boylston academy in 99, I was appointed as part time police officer in 2003. I would like to see how many hours of patrol and in service classes I worked (not including detail or the occasional dispatch shit) and try to use that as some sort of credit toward a bridge academy. I think that would be fair.


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## AS4

RodneyFarva said:


> 150 hours sounds right, I went to through the Boylston academy in 99, I was appointed as part time police officer in 2003. I would like to see how many hours of patrol and in service classes I worked (not including detail or the occasional dispatch shit) and try to use that as some sort of credit toward a bridge academy. I think that would be fair.


Exactly. The amount of in service hours and specialized training I've received far surpasses my limited formalized "academy" training. I'm worried about the smaller departments that have a hybrid like I mentioned above...the larger ones will be taken care of


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## Foxy85

They are going to have to find some sort of happy medium between all of the Pt academies.

they were 120 hours...

then 242 hours...

now they are like 380 or something.

I think weighing in the in-service and actively working, the bridge academy will land between 200-300 hours on top of whatever you had.

what that does in terms of the ability to go FT will probably create a shit show, but it will be interesting.


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## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> what that does in terms of the ability to go FT will probably create a shit show, but it will be interesting


Agreed , time served as fully sworn PT with full police powers, not just reserve, auxiliary or specials detail guys. Pt should have x amount of hours working on patrol to be able to qualify.


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## mpd61

RodneyFarva said:


> Agreed , time served as fully sworn PT with full police powers, not just reserve, auxiliary or specials detail guys. Pt should have x amount of hours working on patrol to be able to qualify.


STOP!!!!!
You're shattering dreams of many, including perhaps FT Campus folks.
Let's all stop guessing, could, should, and what if'ing this shit to death. Give the people in power the months/years they need to sirt this out.......


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## RodneyFarva

All I'm saying technically we canall become state troopers over night at the stroke of the pen like the 94 mdc/reg/cap merger... thats what I heard from the guy who cleans the Shelbourne falls barracks on the week end


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## j809

Merger was 92 buddy


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## RodneyFarva

j809 said:


> Merger was 92 buddy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thats what they want you to think.


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## j809

RodneyFarva said:


> Thats what they want you to think.


I remember one of my friends that was an mdc cop in 1992 was wearing an msp uniform and his cruiser was painted over msp colors.

Three of the following defunct Commonwealth of Massachusetts police agencies (Registry of Motor Vehicles Division of Law Enforcement, Massachusetts Capitol Police, Metropolitan District Commission Police) were merged in 1992 by Chapter 412 of the Massachusetts Acts of 1991 along with the former Department of Public Safety - Division of State Police to form the current Department of State Police. All officers of the three departments became Massachusetts State Troopers at the time of the merger without needing to attend the Massachusetts State Police Academy.

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## RodneyFarva

On a more serious note a part timer with certain amount of training and experience could qualify for a full time employment, based on the past precedent alone.


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## Foxy85

The bridge academy will (this is my conspiracy theory, though I’m probably not alone in thinking this) most likely create and transition to a FT academy, on a part-time basis. Allowing those who want to go FT or PT the ability to attend a nighttime / wknd academy. Other POST type states do it. I know this has been talked about before but with the elimination of future PT academies, how else do you attract someone who wants to work PT or that would otherwise become full time but can’t self sponsor and quit their jobs.
It’s going to be interesting. My guess is that they whip something up quick. If MSP can hold academies over zoom, I’m confident MPTC can whip together a bridge academy.


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## mpd61

Foxy85 said:


> The bridge academy will (this is my conspiracy theory, though I'm probably not alone in thinking this) most likely create and transition to a FT academy, on a part-time basis. Allowing those who want to go FT or PT the ability to attend a nighttime / wknd academy. Other POST type states do it. I know this has been talked about before but with the elimination of future PT academies, how else do you attract someone who wants to work PT or that would otherwise become full time but can't self sponsor and quit their jobs.
> It's going to be interesting. My guess is that they whip something up quick. If MSP can hold academies over zoom, I'm confident MPTC can whip together a bridge academy.


The only whipping going on is...............Oh never mind!


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## Foxy85

I was going to edit my excessive use of the word “whip”, but now I think someone else should raise the bar and post up another response using the word (appropriately as it relates to this thread) even more. Whip up your best post.

I may be on a sugar high and extremely bored.


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## EUPD377

Foxy85 said:


> The bridge academy will (this is my conspiracy theory, though I'm probably not alone in thinking this) most likely create and transition to a FT academy, on a part-time basis. Allowing those who want to go FT or PT the ability to attend a nighttime / wknd academy. Other POST type states do it. I know this has been talked about before but with the elimination of future PT academies, how else do you attract someone who wants to work PT or that would otherwise become full time but can't self sponsor and quit their jobs.
> It's going to be interesting. My guess is that they whip something up quick. If MSP can hold academies over zoom, I'm confident MPTC can whip together a bridge academy.


This makes the most sense to me. Here in NC, everyone must go through the full-length academy. Even if you want to be a reserve and work two shifts a month in your tiny town, you need a full academy. To make it more accessible for people who hold full time jobs, they offer evening/weekend academies. It takes about eight months to get a full academy done in this format, but it's better than nothing for people who have a full time job.


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## Foxy85

Shameless bump, part Deux

Any updates outside of the current rumors?


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## CCCSD

EUPD377 said:


> This makes the most sense to me. Here in NC, everyone must go through the full-length academy. Even if you want to be a reserve and work two shifts a month in your tiny town, you need a full academy. To make it more accessible for people who hold full time jobs, they offer evening/weekend academies. It takes about eight months to get a full academy done in this format, but it's better than nothing for people who have a full time job.


Same in CA.


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## adamo413

This is the most recent information I could find. Nothing specific to do with part timers. But it appears this commission is falling apart before it even started. The reform bill was something rushed to begin with, more or less to settle the masses and shut up the sheep..

A commission tasked with studying the civil service law and increasing transparency and the number of people of color in civil service positions did not hold its first meeting by the deadline required under the new policing reform law.

The 29-member panel was required to hold its first meeting by Jan. 30, under the bill signed into law by Gov. Charlie Baker on Dec. 31. Its charge is to examine hiring and other personnel procedures for civil service employees, municipalities not subject to the provisions of the civil service law, and the Massachusetts State Police to improve diversity and transparency in recruitment, hiring and training. But the committee itself is still forming.

It's the second deadline in the new law that state officials have missed - a commission tasked with studying facial recognition technology did not hold its first meeting by the required Feb. 15 deadline.

Sophia Hall, a supervising attorney at Lawyers for Civil Rights and ACLU Massachusetts' pick to serve on the civil service commission, said it is concerning that a panel created in the policing bill "bit off what looks like a little bit more than they might be able to chew within the timeframes that they expected."

"I think at the end of the day, what we have to decide is at what point do we sort of draw the line and say, okay, this is no longer acceptable, you have made a commitment to people, and you're now accountable for this and we need to get this rolling," she said.

Rep. Ken Gordon, the new House chair of the Public Service Committee who would either serve on the commission or appoint a designee, said because legislative committee assignments happened on Feb. 12 it would have been "impossible" to meet on the date set out in the law, which was drafted and approved by lawmakers over a seven-month period last year.

"As soon as everybody is together, we will have our first meeting," the Bedford Democrat said. "We are going to be doing exactly what they need us to do, but I think that date was a little unrealistic considering the change in session."

Among a long list of required study items, the group is tasked with looking into the hiring and recruitment processes for civil service positions, the use of civil service eligible lists, and evaluating the feasibility of creating a statewide diversity office within the Executive Office of Administration and Finance.

The commission is required to meet monthly and then submit a report of its findings and draft legislation to the governor, and House and Senate clerks on or before Sept. 30. As of last week, a spokesperson for Speaker Ronald Mariano said his office was working to finalize the House's appointments and that the commission would meet when all appointments are finalized.


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## RodneyFarva

Ah yes! the bill to bring all law enforcement up to par, so we can all be on the same page... with exception of the State Police and probably the SSPO guys are next, and then the corrections academy will be the next to be given a pass.


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## adamo413

I don't know if this reform business is going to go anywhere . All they have to do is set the minimum standard for what certifies a police officer. That can be as much or as little as any accrediting organization decides. This has been mauled to death already but it's literally in the hands of politicians with zero back ground in policing


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## USAF286

adamo413 said:


> I don't know if this reform business is going to go anywhere . All they have to do is set the minimum standard for what certifies a police officer. That can be as much or as little as any accrediting organization decides. This has been mauled to death already but it's literally in the hands of politicians with zero back ground in policing


"This has been mauled to death already but it's literally in the hands of politicians with zero back ground in policing" This says it all. Proactive policing has come to an end and now it's a career based on treading lightly, answering your radio and CYA. It's a fucking shame.

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## AUXCAPT

Here is an on-topic article that was posted today. So we can't hire full-time and are making part-time an impossibility... I listened into the last MPTC meeting and the topic of part-time / bridge academy was not even on the agenda or discussed...

Police departments see 'pretty depressing' decline in new recruits

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## AB7

Don’t worry y’all! The government will figure it out for us.


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## RodneyFarva

adamo413 said:


> . All they have to do is set the minimum standard for what certifies a police officer. That can be as much or as little as any accrediting organization decides.


And thats way to much for our elected officials to handle. 


USAF286 said:


> Proactive policing has come to an end and now it's a career based on treading lightly, answering your radio and CYA. It's a fucking shame.


It sucks you want to get there and hammer away but its just not worth it. Especially when you work in a smaller town where calls are sparse and chapter 90 is our bread and butter.


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## FAPD

adamo413 said:


> This is the most recent information I could find. *Nothing specific to do with part timers. *
> 
> A commission_ tasked with studying the civil service law _*did not *hold its first meeting by the deadline required under the new policing reform law. But the committee itself is still forming.
> 
> It's the second deadline missed, a second commission tasked with _studying facial recognition technology_ *did not* hold its first meeting by the required Feb. 15 deadline.
> 
> The commission is required to *meet monthly* and then *submit a report of its findings* and *draft legislation *to the governor, and House and Senate clerks *on or before Sept. 30*. As of last week, a spokesperson for Speaker Ronald Mariano said his office was working to finalize the House's appointments and *that the commission would meet when all appointments are finalized*.


So basically, there is no real information, except that the people who responsible for producing the "information" haven't even been appointed yet, let alone have meetings set up. Like has been said before, nobody knows anything about anything and nobody is going to know anything for some time.


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## Lins9

NEPS said:


> If the information is vague, that is because neither the Senate nor the House Bill is clear. The provisions in one or the other or both may not even make it into the actual law.
> 
> The Senate version seems to be least likely to continue the current system of part time training. (And, as PG1911 said above, some states have gone to requiring full and part time officers to attend the same "full time" academy.) The House version seems to talk about a standard for part time training among the four or five standards discussed. But BOTH bills contain a section saying that part time academy trained officers will be INITIALLY certified, and _during that first certified period will be required to attend additional training that is not described, but will be designed by the training agency_. So, some decisions seem as though they will be made by the training agency and the new certification authority, and we don't even know what that training agency and the certification authority will be, much less what decisions they will make.
> 
> That is, I assure you, as much as can be understood at this point from these two bills. They were written by legislators who are _not_ intimately familiar with our current part time training system (if you can call it a system) in which the state's police training agency has not actually trained any part time officers for a decade or two, but has left the job instead to regional chiefs' groups and private enterprises.


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## FAPD

Lins9 said:


> View attachment 10469


That's an interesting snippet regarding SSPO; What is that source? looking at the references to "normal academy" I would say it's nothing more than some unofficial proposal floating between folks on the internet.......
Prove me wrong, reveal the source


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## j809

Yes I heard it passed at chiefs meeting yesterday. Reserves will have a 200 hour bridge academy to complete but SSPO are all set. Guess a lot of campus chiefs were upset and worried that many will jump ship now.


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## FAPD

This also interesting regarding this topic;
Special Police Officer - Acton, MA 01720 - Indeed.com


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## j809

Yeah Acton can’t fill their jobs. I worked quite a few there , all blood money


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## KPD54

there are some great guys at acton. Honestly wouldn't have minded taking a spo for them while i go to uni, but no new r/i academy means no way to get a cert.


----------



## Sgt Jack

j809 said:


> Yes I heard it passed at chiefs meeting yesterday. Reserves will have a 200 hour bridge academy to complete but SSPO are all set. Guess a lot of campus chiefs were upset and worried that many will jump ship now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wait what???? So there's an actual chance that folks like myself wouldn't have do another full-time academy finally if I wanted to bounce to a municipal job???


----------



## adamo413

I don't believe any of this anymore. Until I see a stamped memorandum or legislation from the state it's all hearsay and piss in the wind.


----------



## j809

Sgt Jack said:


> Wait what???? So there's an actual chance that folks like myself wouldn't have do another full-time academy finally if I wanted to bounce to a municipal job???


Yes it's a done deal. Hurdle will be if the towns will accept it or make you go to a full time municipal academy.

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## mpd61

adamo413 said:


> I don't believe any of this anymore. Until I see a stamped memorandum or legislation from the state it's all hearsay and piss in the wind.


I agree 100%
And after much serious consideration, the ONLY thing I'm even half sure about is there will be some sort of Bridge Academy, or you can shut down 90% + of the Police Departments west of Route 495.


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## MiamiVice

I was on the zoom meeting yesterday, bridge for reserves, 40hr dt, 40hr evoc, 40hr firearm, and 80hrs classroom. SSPO that went to sports academy all set. In the future there will be no reserve academy, just a night and weekend academy that goes the same number of hours as regular. 

Looks like the hiring shortage will be over for a few years. 

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## j809

The 200 hour bridge for reserves is interesting because even if added to to the new 320 it’s only 520 hours. Add that to most folks that have the 120 and it’s 320. They will have police officer certification, no more full time and part time. However I think it will be difficult for someone with 320 hours to be hired by a town full time. Most departments will still be recruiting for full time academy graduates. SSPO academy is different because it’s 18 weeks very close to FT and they will not have to do a bridge academy. Reserve bridge will be 40 hours evoc, 40 hours firearms, 40 hours DT and 80 hours classroom.


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## Sgt Jack

j809 said:


> Yes it's a done deal. Hurdle will be if the towns will accept it or make you go to a full time municipal academy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Wow!!, Alrighty then!!!


----------



## mpd61

j809 said:


> The 200 hour bridge for reserves is interesting because even if added to to the new 320 it's only 520 hours. Add that to most folks that have the 120 and it's 320. They will have police officer certification, no more full time and part time. However I think it will be difficult for someone with 320 hours to be hired by a town full time. Most departments will still be recruiting for full time academy graduates. SSPO academy is different because it's 18 weeks very close to FT and they will not have to do a bridge academy. Reserve bridge will be 40 hours evoc, 40 hours firearms, 40 hours DT and 80 hours classroom.


You have valid points Yimmy. On the other side of the scale for your concern about 320 to 520 hours, is the position that they're giving Reserves and Intermittent some credit for practical experience. Let's face it, you're qualified to be a Chief, so wouldn't upgrade/refreshed DT/EVOC/Firearms address most potential liability issues for command folks? I believe you will only be able to appoint certified officers as well. Have you heard about CH 265 13H1/2 yet?


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## CCCSD

How many hours for Hat, proper wearing of..?


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## PG1911

j809 said:


> Yes I heard it passed at chiefs meeting yesterday. Reserves will have a 200 hour bridge academy to complete but SSPO are all set. Guess a lot of campus chiefs were upset and worried that many will jump ship now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Well, there's an easy fix for that: Fucking pay the officers near what municipal guys are getting paid, treat them well, and maybe they won't have guys jumping like rats off a sinking ship!


----------



## AUXCAPT

Any discussion on who is going to be paying for all this.

200 hrs on who’s dime?

And what is the cost of the bridge academy going to be, and again, on who’s dime?

Are we ever going to car rental proceeds?

(Snicker and LOL)


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## j809

I think it’s up to the department if they want to send them to it. I heard many places will probably not and do away with reserves. Regionalization is the Next big topic that can fix many problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PBC FL Cop

The new MA system will be a POST system, all law enforcement officers who exercise arrest powers will be required to have a minimum standard of training. Current reserve officers will be required to attend the bridge academy, as described above, to maintain their certification and will then be certified law enforcement officers in the Commonwealth. Deputy Sheriffs who exercise arrest powers will attend the bridge academy will also become certified law enforcement officers. The former concept of part-time v. full-time trained will be eliminated as everyone will now be a MA certified law enforcement officer.

Concerns for Sheriffs and Campus Chiefs is that their officers and deputies can now apply to police departments without having to attend the "full-time" police academy appears to be concerning for many when it comes to retention.

Reserve officers who attend the bridge academy will also be much more marketable for full-time positions if they are looking for a full-time career in law enforcement. 

Interesting times in the Commonwealth!!


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## PBC FL Cop

The question of whether or not Sheriffs will have chapter 90 authority did come up, as now, under the new bill, deputy sheriffs will be considered certified full-time law enforcement officers in the Commonwealth. The police reform bill, in reference to certification and training standards, did not address this issue nor did it specifically grant deputy sheriffs chap 90 authority. This question will undoubtedly be discussed once the POST system is in place and all the technical issues are worked out. It will be a more interesting conversation now, as the training or lack thereof argument is removed from the equation.

COMMONWEALTH v. BAEZ | FindLaw

Again, interesting times in the Commonwealth!


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## KPD54

I see this as a serious problem for campus departments. Who’s gonna want to take a job at assumption or Holy cross when they can go patrol for an actual municipality. The sheriffs thing is interesting. Maybe they’ll start contracting for LE rurally


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## j809

I think you will see many colleges go to a security public safety unarmed role


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## KPD54

That’s a shame, I quite enjoyed the unique college police deal that mass had going


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## Kilvinsky

j809 said:


> Yes I heard it passed at chiefs meeting yesterday. Reserves will have a 200 hour bridge academy to complete but SSPO are all set. Guess a lot of campus chiefs were upset and worried that many will jump ship now.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's been a concern for decades, now it's just making it easier if this is a reality. We'll see. And as I've said, ad nauseum, my FULL academy in 1981 was far shorter than the current SSPO academy and the SSPO academy is longer than some current FULL academies in some states. Just an observation.

On a total side note, I find it VERY interesting that the most vocal critics of Policing are not signing up. If you REALLY want to change things, do it from the INSIDE, not out side looking in. Join up, become a cop and help present a kinder gentler face. Work with your now colleagues and show them (us) first hand how it can be done better. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and yell criticism, but if you are REALLY committed and REALLY want change, put your money where your big mouths are and SHOW US HOW IT'S DONE! I'd be willing to work alongside a reformer, maybe I'll learn something and at the very least, I'll enjoy watching the changing attitude of said reformer as things don't go as planned. Damn cowards will NEVER do it though because I honestly believe they KNOW they'd change before the job did.


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## CCCSD

What is the big deal with Chap 90 powers?


----------



## AUXCAPT

Kilvinsky said:


> That's been a concern for decades, now it's just making it easier if this is a reality. We'll see. And as I've said, ad nauseum, my FULL academy in 1981 was far shorter than the current SSPO academy and the SSPO academy is longer than some current FULL academies in some states. Just an observation.
> 
> On a total side note, I find it VERY interesting that the most vocal critics of Policing are not signing up. If you REALLY want to change things, do it from the INSIDE, not out side looking in. Join up, become a cop and help present a kinder gentler face. Work with your now colleagues and show them (us) first hand how it can be done better. It's easy to stand on the sidelines and yell criticism, but if you are REALLY committed and REALLY want change, put your money where your big mouths are and SHOW US HOW IT'S DONE! I'd be willing to work alongside a reformer, maybe I'll learn something and at the very least, I'll enjoy watching the changing attitude of said reformer as things don't go as planned. Damn cowards will NEVER do it though because I honestly believe they KNOW they'd change before the job did.


To your total side note - good book came out in February that's right to your point. A self proclaimed liberal Harvard and Yale educated Georgetown Law Professor joined the Metropolitan DC Police reserve corps - full academy and worked 4 years as a reserve in SE DC - with much more respect for policing that she thought she would ever have.

https://www.amazon.com/Tangled-Up-Blue-Policing-American/dp/0525557857

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## Goose

CCCSD said:


> What is the big deal with Chap 90 powers?


Chapter 90 = Ability to enforce traffic laws. It's not about tickets (for most cops of course) but the ability to make proactive contacts and have some teeth when needed.


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## CCCSD

Thanks Goose.
It seems to be a big bragging point in MA. Like, if you ain’t got Chap 90, you ain’t a Real Poleece...


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## adamo413

When is all of this actually going into law ? Or is this just the game plan? Is this new standard of training and bridge program idea coming for MPTC or this magical police reform council who are supposed to get together and make educated guesses on what will be best for policing in mass?


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## mpd61

adamo413 said:


> When is all of this actually going into law ? Or is this just the game plan? Is this new standard of training and bridge program idea coming for MPTC or this magical police reform council who are supposed to get together and make educated guesses on what will be best for policing in mass?


VERRRRY good questions!


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## Foxy85

Does this include Auxiliary guys that don’t work patrol? 
Wish it would be more than 200 hours but I’m sure nothing is written in stone. 

campus PDs and small towns (that utilize PTers) are gonna struggle through this. Should be interesting


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## RodneyFarva

j809 said:


> Yes it's a done deal. Hurdle will be if the towns will accept it or make you go to a full time municipal academy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its probable, however one could make the argument that its something like when the Quinn bill was around, if you get your degree at collage x and get y amount precent bump in pay, only for your department say you don't qualify because you got you Batchelor at curry College instead of umass, fitchburg or Framingham. Does that make scence ?


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## PBC FL Cop

adamo413 said:


> When is all of this actually going into law ? Or is this just the game plan? Is this new standard of training and bridge program idea coming for MPTC or this magical police reform council who are supposed to get together and make educated guesses on what will be best for policing in mass?


July 1


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## PBC FL Cop

Foxy85 said:


> Does this include Auxiliary guys that don't work patrol?


Anyone who has and/or exercises arrest powers will have to be a MA certified law enforcement officer under MPTC.

Reserve/intermittent police academies will cease to exist in MA. Current classes will be allowed to graduate and then they will be required to attend to bridge training to become certified.


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## Foxy85

Regarding the 120 hour academies from years ago, guys that attended that will recall that you needed to pay extra and or attend other classes to become certified in that specific area... usually they charged you more for it too.

For example, on top of the basic 120 hour course, you had

Radar, 16 hours
FSTs, 24 hours
Baton, 8 hours
OC, 8 hours
Taser, 8 hours
BT, 16 hours
First Responder, 24 hours

So while it wasn’t anything close to the FT academy it was def more than the 120, they just nickel and dimed you for the other classes. I think all of that is (was?) included in the current PT academy...


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## 9319

R/I academies were a joke to begin with. I understand the needed some PDs have regarding part timers but the length and level of instruction varied from questionable to scary. Probably for the best in the long run.


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## Foxy85

Javert said:


> R/I academies were a joke to begin with. I understand the needed some PDs have regarding part timers but the length and level of instruction varied from questionable to scary. Probably for the best in the long run.


I've always said that as well. Taught you just enough to get in trouble. If you didn't have any sort of decent FTO program, you were screwed.


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## RodneyFarva

Many moons ago Boylston Academy day one "Who is here for road job, and who has a job already?" 80% of the class, Road jobs!


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## USAF3424

CCCSD said:


> Thanks Goose.
> It seems to be a big bragging point in MA. Like, if you ain't got Chap 90, you ain't a Real Poleece...


you have to go back and read some of the threads from like 10-15 years ago. They are priceless, I still laugh my ass off.


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## USAF3424

RodneyFarva said:


> Many moons ago Boylston Academy day one "Who is here for road job, and who has a job already?" 80% of the class, Road jobs!


probably the only good part of the job left!


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## CCCSD

I will do so.
Thanks


----------



## USAF3424

BU Observer, one of the all time trolls, once said something along the lines of “BU cops pedaling their bikes up and down CommAve like Pee Wee Herman.” Top 10 lmfao moment. 
Or Loyal remember that guy lol.


----------



## NEPS

j809 said:


> Yes I heard it passed at chiefs meeting yesterday. Reserves will have a 200 hour bridge academy to complete but SSPO are all set. Guess a lot of campus chiefs were upset and worried that many will jump ship now.


I heard almost the same thing from the MPTC director at that meeting, with this distinction: SSPOs who graduated from MSP's campus academies will have full certification. But any officer with the reserve academy needs to cross the bridge.


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## NEPS

Foxy85 said:


> Does this include Auxiliary guys that don't work patrol?


Auxiliary police are not addressed in the police reform law at all.


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## CCCSD

NEPS said:


> I heard almost the same thing from the MPTC director at that meeting, with this distinction: SSPOs who graduated from MSP's campus academies will have full certification. But any officer with the reserve academy needs to cross the bridge.


The Rainbow Bridge? With unicorns?


----------



## USAF286

USAF3424 said:


> BU Observer, one of the all time trolls, once said something along the lines of "BU cops pedaling their bikes up and down CommAve like Pee Wee Herman." Top 10 lmfao moment.
> Or Loyal remember that guy lol.


I'd love to see a nice masscops gold beat down on a troll. It's been too long.

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## mpd61

NEPS said:


> Auxiliary police are not addressed in the police reform law at all.


They are actually specified in the proposed sec.13H1/2


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## CCCSD

1/2 for AUX?


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## BLUE BLOOD

jesus h christ.....


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## adamo413

That's another question for auxiliaries. Example Holyoke MA Auxiliary Police don't go through an MPTC R/I academy they have an in house academy and I think derive there powers from an old civil defense statute . That program get the are too?


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## MiamiVice

adamo413 said:


> When is all of this actually going into law ? Or is this just the game plan? Is this new standard of training and bridge program idea coming for MPTC or this magical police reform council who are supposed to get together and make educated guesses on what will be best for policing in mass?


July 1. 

Mptc

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## MiamiVice

Foxy85 said:


> Does this include Auxiliary guys that don’t work patrol?
> Wish it would be more than 200 hours but I’m sure nothing is written in stone.
> 
> campus PDs and small towns (that utilize PTers) are gonna struggle through this. Should be interesting


Auxiliary if they carry a gun need to be certified. 

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## adamo413

Here is my next question. Massachusetts is one of the few states that doesn't require formal training for security officers. There are tons of armed security officer and armed guards out there with no training, an LTC and a complex where is the reform on that ? What's next for massachusetts only police officers can have guns? Where does it stop is the question


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## CCCSD

Afraid of losing your job to more highly qualified Security Guards?


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## adamo413

Nope if they had a solid pension and insurance I'd jump on board. Less BS and politics. It's the little things.


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## KPD54

Whats gonna happen to the Sheriffs?? I'm somewhat excited to see the big hats and stars return to MA streets. I know some counties(Barnstable comes to mind) take a much more active LE role than others, so are they gonna try and push in to the LE field, doing highway patrol etc? That'd be huge for their recruitment, so they can trick poor rookies into the jails.


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## Foxy85

adamo413 said:


> Here is my next question. Massachusetts is one of the few states that doesn't require formal training for security officers. There are tons of armed security officer and armed guards out there with no training, an LTC and a complex where is the reform on that ? What's next for massachusetts only police officers can have guns? Where does it stop is the question


Stop it


----------



## Foxy85

KPD54 said:


> Whats gonna happen to the Sheriffs?? I'm somewhat excited to see the big hats and stars return to MA streets. I know some counties(Barnstable comes to mind) take a much more active LE role than others, so are they gonna try and push in to the LE field, doing highway patrol etc? That'd be huge for their recruitment, so they can trick poor rookies into the jails.


No way this happens. If small towns lose their policing abilities, then MSP will expand their roles.


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## kpf94

KPD54 said:


> Whats gonna happen to the Sheriffs?? I'm somewhat excited to see the big hats and stars return to MA streets. I know some counties(Barnstable comes to mind) take a much more active LE role than others, so are they gonna try and push in to the LE field, doing highway patrol etc? That'd be huge for their recruitment, so they can trick poor rookies into the jails.


Having grown up and lived in Barnstable county for 20+ years, I can assure you Barnstable County sheriffs do not do LE roles in the community. Maybe out west this idea will take off of having the sheriff's departments handle regional LE but that is not currently happening down on the Cape and Isles and probably won't happen anywhere Northeast, Southeast, or East of Boston.


----------



## Foxy85

kpf94 said:


> Having grown up and lived in Barnstable county for 20+ years, I can assure you Barnstable County sheriffs do not do LE roles in the community. Maybe out west this idea will take off of having the sheriff's departments handle regional LE but that is not currently happening down on the Cape and Isles and probably won't happen anywhere Northeast, Southeast, or East of Boston.


East of Boston?


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## kpf94

Foxy85 said:


> East of Boston?


I should have said East-ish haha more so meant Southeast of Boston


----------



## KPD54

Do you think they'll start offering a FT academy on weekends? I know some other states do that for places that need P/T officers but have a POST system


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## PG1911

KPD54 said:


> Do you think they'll start offering a FT academy on weekends? I know some other states do that for places that need P/T officers but have a POST system


I did a night academy PA. It was 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week, plus 9 8 hour Sundays for firearms training, for 10 months. It was the same at the FT academy, just spread out.


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## KPD54

PG1911 said:


> I did a night academy PA. It was 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week, plus 9 8 hour Sundays for firearms training, for 10 months. It was the same at the FT academy, just spread out.


Exactly, just like that. I can imagine that being something that MA communities would be interested in


----------



## PG1911

KPD54 said:


> Exactly, just like that. I can imagine that being something that MA communities would be interested in


As I've said before in previous posts, one thing that would have to change is the academy expiration rule. Nobody would want to give up a year to go to an academy that was at risk of being all for nothing if they don't get a job within two years. They'd have to either do what PA does, and just require academy grads to retake a state test every two years if they aren't hired, or do some kind of short refresher course to keep up their certification.


----------



## Foxy85

KPD54 said:


> Do you think they'll start offering a FT academy on weekends? I know some other states do that for places that need P/T officers but have a POST system


That seems to be the talk that future FT academies will be offered on a PT basis as well. It’ll take like 11 mos to complete instead of 6...
They’ll have to do something otherwise towns that rely on PTers will be relying on MSP for coverage when they aren’t on duty and / or tied up because less guys are on the road.

Re: Oakham, Brimfield, the Brookfields, Wales, Holland and every other small town in Weatern Mass.


----------



## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> That seems to be the talk that future FT academies will be offered on a PT basis as well. It’ll take like 11 mos to complete instead of 6...
> They’ll have to do something otherwise towns that rely on PTers will be relying on MSP for coverage when they aren’t on duty and / or tied up because less guys are on the road.
> 
> Re: Oakham, Brimfield, the Brookfields, Wales, Holland and every other small town in Weatern Mass.


Does the MSP still run 2 and a desk for each barracks? This could be the catalyst, so to speak, for regional police in that part of the state.


----------



## Foxy85

I can’t speak for MSP, but in Brookfield, I’m confident they have more than two troopers covering the C-3 area. I would think there’s at least 3-4 plus the desk. Maybe it depends on the shift?


----------



## MiamiVice

KPD54 said:


> Do you think they'll start offering a FT academy on weekends? I know some other states do that for places that need P/T officers but have a POST system


They said that will be coming

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## MiamiVice

Foxy85 said:


> I can’t speak for MSP, but in Brookfield, I’m confident they have more than two troopers covering the C-3 area. I would think there’s at least 3-4 plus the desk. Maybe it depends on the shift?


Desk+2 

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## Foxy85

MiamiVice said:


> Desk+2
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


You guys short? I always remembered scanning and hearing guys sign on and being assigned “East, west and middle”....three guys...and usually Sgt Tony on the desk. And yes, I realize I’m dating myself... but he was one of the best.


----------



## j809

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## Foxy85

MPTC hasn’t even hammered out the bridge academy specs yet and QCC is already recruiting for the first PT/FT academy? Interesting.


----------



## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> MPTC hasn’t even hammered out the bridge academy specs yet and QCC is already recruiting for the first PT/FT academy? Interesting.


And if you don't find employment within (X) amount of years you get to cut another check for (Y) to the MPTC and get to do it all over again.


----------



## j809

This is where having a degree will make you stand out from the million certified officers that will soon become a reality. Academy certification is not the golden standard anymore


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## Foxy85

j809 said:


> This is where having a degree will make you stand out from the million certified officers that will soon become a reality. Academy certification is not the golden standard anymore
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes and no. Departments are hurting for bodies. If you present well, have a solid foundation and good work ethic, I think most departments would welcome it. Degrees used to mean something. Now, I’d take military and work experience all day long over college. Especially in this field.

A lot of departments are dumping CS or entertaining it at least.... so one would assume that’ll create a wider variety of possible candidates for those departments that pull out of CS.


----------



## Roy Fehler

KPD54 said:


> Whats gonna happen to the Sheriffs?? I'm somewhat excited to see the big hats and stars return to MA streets. I know some counties(Barnstable comes to mind) take a much more active LE role than others, so are they gonna try and push in to the LE field, doing highway patrol etc? That'd be huge for their recruitment, so they can trick poor rookies into the jails.


Sheriffs in MA are tasked with the care, custody, and transportation of people either awaiting trial, or serving sentences of less than 2 1/2 years.

That’s it.

They have no law enforcement role, beyond the walls of their correctional institutions. The fact that some empire-building sheriffs have tried to force their way into police work doesn’t make them any less unwanted or anymore qualified.


----------



## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> This is where having a degree will make you stand out from the million certified officers that will soon become a reality. Academy certification is not the golden standard anymore
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I might as well wipe my ass with my college degree, for all the good it’s helped me as far as functioning as a cop.


----------



## Glock48

Straight from the EOPSS.


----------



## PG1911

Roy Fehler said:


> I might as well wipe my ass with my college degree, for all the good it’s helped me as far as functioning as a cop.


That can be said for just about any job, with the exception of maybe teaching and accounting. I'm doing a master's program right now and, for the first time in my academic career, I'm actually being taught stuff that I will use on the job.


----------



## EUPD377

Well at least they’re willing to admit that there’s a “negligible difference” between the SSPO academy and the regular full time academy instead of forcing people who already sat through the whole SSPO academy to go sit for more classes.


----------



## Sgt Jack

EUPD377 said:


> Well at least they’re willing to admit that there’s a “negligible difference” between the SSPO academy and the regular full time academy instead of forcing people who already sat through the whole SSPO academy to go sit for more classes.


As someone who's had the pleasure of attending said academy. I've always maintained it should have always been recognized and that no graduate should have to repeat an entire academy just to further their careers. I've also argued that it is infact a full-time police academy (semantics I know). Its just not a municipal academy to anyone who's asked about it. It seems to be the only silver lining in this shit bill. Given the nature of the MPTC I'm sure we'll have to do some type of addition training. I don't think we're getting off that easy.


----------



## Foxy85

Considering other states recognize it as being a “real academy”... it’s been a long time coming.


----------



## Foxy85

Anyone have intel on whether or not the bridge academy will include PT or require the passing of a PAT. Some guys I work with are nervous. Some older guys that have been around a while. I haven’t heard anything either way regarding a PAT.


----------



## mpd61

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone have intel on whether or not the bridge academy will include PT or require the passing of a PAT. Some guys I work with are nervous. Some older guys that have been around a while. I haven’t heard anything either way regarding a PAT.


Gonna have to say probably not. The main intent and focus appears to be to _"ensure that every law enforcement officer exercising police powers be trained to the same high standard."_
The EOPSS, MPTC, and POSTC are facing super critical and fast approaching deadlines regarding first updating in-service for September 2021, and then bridge and MPOC academies sometime soon after that. Looking at the identified topics such as use of force & de-escalation, mental health, cultural competency & mass gatherings, etc. I would say PT isn't going to be a focus for "Police Reform" much. The above initial "final draft" from EOPSS only refers to _"a significant component to be completed virtually"._ At least initially anyway.


----------



## PG1911

One thing I wonder about with all these trainings: What about parole officers? From what I understand, they hold SSPO status minus ch. 90. Will POs have to go through a bridge academy, whole academy, or will they have some kind of waiver due to the different nature of their jobs? Or, will they reclassify POs, and other LEOs that do stuff other than standard police work, as something other than SSPO?


----------



## Glock48

PG1911 said:


> One thing I wonder about with all these trainings: What about parole officers? From what I understand, they hold SSPO status minus ch. 90. Will POs have to go through a bridge academy, whole academy, or will they have some kind of waiver due to the different nature of their jobs? Or, will they reclassify POs, and other LEOs that do stuff other than standard police work, as something other than SSPO?


Your question seems kinda confusing but I hope this response helps.

Regardless of what your title/job is, if you are going to be enforcing the laws of the commonwealth under the new post system you are REQUIRED by law to meet the new POST Certification standard.

This means everyone, including the State Police, are subject to this standard of basic ROC training.

There is a caveat, however, that allows for agencies (like MSP) to require MORE TRAINING but only after/if the basic ROC hours and curriculum has been met.


----------



## PG1911

Glock48 said:


> Your question seems kinda confusing but I hope this response helps.
> 
> Regardless of what your title/job is, if you are going to be enforcing the laws of the commonwealth under the new post system you are REQUIRED by law to meet the new POST Certification standard.
> 
> This means everyone, including the State Police, are subject to this standard of basic ROC training.
> 
> There is a caveat, however, that allows for agencies (like MSP) to require MORE TRAINING but only after/if the basic ROC hours and curriculum has been met.


It'll be interesting to see what happens. The reason I ask is that here in CT, we've had POST for over 35 years. However, probation and parole officers do not have to attend a POST academy; they have their own training through the DOC. They do have power of arrest for parole and probation violations, but they don't have general police powers over anyone who is not under the supervision of the state Department of Corrections. I'm unsure, however, what, if any, other charges they are capable of bringing against their parolees if they commit further crimes, or if they have to have the local or state police make the charge if discovered.


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## Foxy85

I was just told the bridge academy will cost upwards of 6k 😆... any truth to this? Who’s paying for it. Between hourly rate and the tuition, if your PD has 10 PTers it’s gonna cost your small town 100k to get guys certified.


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## j809

Foxy85 said:


> I was just told the bridge academy will cost upwards of 6k ... any truth to this? Who’s paying for it. Between hourly rate and the tuition, if your PD has 10 PTers it’s gonna cost your small town 100k to get guys certified.


That’s only the regular academy on the 9 month basis. Last I heard from a chief that spoke to mptc executive director was that it was free unless something changed.


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## Foxy85

Ahhh okay - so the new, undeveloped, PT academy (Full time academy on a PT schedule) is gonna be 6k!? Damn.

Thanks!


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## Sgt Jack

I know its been awhile but has anyone heard of any new developments as far as how things are progressing with the MPTC and implementing all of this? Looks like their meeting minutes haven't been updated in awhile.


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## RodneyFarva

There was a training meeting for it in Grafton the other day, I think it was more for supervisors and dept heads.


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## CCCSD

Spill them beans Pal!


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## RodneyFarva

CCCSD said:


> Spill them beans Pal!


I don't have beans to spill. ...wait, that doesn't sound right.


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## Sgt Jack

RodneyFarva said:


> There was a training meeting for it in Grafton the other day, I think it was more for supervisors and dept heads.


Sounds good. I hadn't heard much so I was curious. Thanks


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## Roy Fehler

Sgt Jack said:


> I know its been awhile but has anyone heard of any new developments as far as how things are progressing with the MPTC and implementing all of this? Looks like their meeting minutes haven't been updated in awhile.


I know nothing official, but my experience and gut feeling tell me that part-time police, unless they’re full-time trained, will soon be a thing of the past in Massachusetts.


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## j809

I heard that the 200 hours component is only the classroom portion . There will be more required like evoc,firearms, DT and some other stuff. Probably closer to 400 hours. This was at the Grafton meeting. The problem is that departments have to pay their reserves while they attend this. I don’t know what the tuition will be if any plus equipment, ammo etc. could cost $10k a reserve. And then they get a full time ticket and can leave the next day. Most departments that use them that I spoke to say they will phase them out.


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## PBC FL Cop

Last I heard, the 200 hours is the entire bridge academy to include all the practical aspects. This is an excellent time for part-time officers to become "full-time" certified without having to actually attend the full-time academy.


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## Foxy85

I heard 120 hours of “class room” - which depending on when you go may be virtual / zoom.
The other 80 hours would be EVOC / DT . . .

Supposedly tuition is said to be free (grant money provided by the state) but the question still comes as to who’s paying the hourly wage to attend. If your dept has 10 PTers at a wage of $20.00 / hr (some pay more some pay less - sadly) you’re talking 40-50k.
That’s a big number for small departments with small budgets.


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## j809

I heard that the bridge academy has already started. Anyone heard of this ?


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## gb1611

j809 said:


> I heard that the bridge academy has already started. Anyone heard of this ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I keep my ears as close to this as possible as I am a municipal reserve who is working on becoming FT. I will start with the facts that I know.
-Will count as a FT Cert (yes everyone will chew and screw small cities)
-will have no PT (how do you make old college cops etc do PT)
-200 ish hours of classroom material (on zoom/internet)
-1 week evoc
-56 hour cert for firearms
-the amount of DT hours we don't have
-same with active shooter 

Hear comes the "rumor section" 
-it was slated to start in July, but that's fastly approaching. however they are still starting relatively soon. My rank has already got a list of all the willing participants.
-POST will have everyone's IA file in the next couple weeks. not sure if they can retroactively act on misconduct. 
-sadly, most places will prefer to send candidates here because it will save the city boatloads.


major issues
-I thought we wanted better trained cops? we all know the part time course is a college course not an academy.. I for one do not want to attend this- I can't imagine I'll be as good with this compared to FT. 
-colleges, hospitals, small towns that rely on these academys... how will they retain members- they certainly can't offer the pay or road work. They are going to get really screwed by this
-lastly this seems very rushed and thrown together without deep thought. it seems as though they want to see us all at 800 hours but have no understanding of the training and how we get there.


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## Foxy85

There seems to be more unanswered questions than solid information.

There will still be a “part time academy” however it will be the same hours as the FT academy (Re: FT academy on a PT basis) I know Quinsig is already gearing up to host one.

I appreciate everyone throwing what little information we are fed, on to the forums to keep us all informed!


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## AUXCAPT

I spoke with a Chief who said that although MPTC has designed what they believe the Bridge Academy should be (approx 200 hours 80 online classroom, 120 hours of hands on APP, Firearms and EVOC) - It still needs to be approved by POST - so we may not hear too much until the fall (at the earliest) 


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## MiamiVice

I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole. 

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## gb1611

MiamiVice said:


> I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


I would feel bad, but first hand experience teaches me they pay garbage. Up they pay a little then guys have to to think “do I want to risk my life for a few grand more, or get paid well and deal with college age shits”


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## RodneyFarva

MiamiVice said:


> I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


The whole point of the post/Bridge its to get everyone at a certain level. It would be a real shitty move for an agency not to hire based on the potential candidate simply because they do not have a full time academy however they are post certified like a full time officer in the eyes of the mptc


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## Roy Fehler

RodneyFarva said:


> The whole point of the post/Bridge its to get everyone at a certain level. It would be a real shitty move for an agency not to hire based on the potential candidate simply because they do not have a full time academy however they are post certified like a full time officer in the eyes of the mptc


Departments have been doing it for years. Some campus PD’s require the full-time MPTC academy, when the SSPO would have sufficed.

They just want all the boxes checked.


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## j809

MiamiVice said:


> I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


I hope so. There is at least one PD around me that appointed a reserve as a full time officer , they decided to just send him to the bridge academy in order to save $. That is not what the bridge academy was for, however some chiefs are already using this as a loophole. Also many PDs around me that use reserves are thinking of not sending any reserves through the bridge because nothing will stop them from leaving after they are full time trained. Why would a town spend $8k to send a part timer to the bridge academy so they can leave the next day. Once they have the certification, why would they be satisifed with part time employment? That is the issue. I also heard that POST will decide if the 200 hour academy is really going to happen as no other state that has POST waived a magic wand that made all the part timers, full time certified with minimal hours.


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## RodneyFarva

Roy Fehler said:


> Departments have been doing it for years. Some campus PD’s require the full-time MPTC academy, when the SSPO would have sufficed.
> 
> They just want all the boxes checked.


True now with post coming it may change, think about this l, let's say you send yourself through the Boylston academy, you are no trained and certified ar the end. You now apply to hudson or marlborough. You get a letter from one of the municipality's saying that they no longer accept candidates that graduated from Boylston even though the recruit is up to par upon graduation and is equal in the eyes of the MPTC and state.


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## Roy Fehler

RodneyFarva said:


> True now with post coming it may change, think about this l, let's say you send yourself through the Boylston academy, you are no trained and certified ar the end. You now apply to hudson or marlborough. You get a letter from one of the municipality's saying that they no longer accept candidates that graduated from Boylston even though the recruit is up to par upon graduation and is equal in the eyes of the MPTC and state.


They absolutely can do that, departments have wide autonomy to set their own hiring standards.

You can be a graduate of every police academy in Massachusetts, including the Boston Police Academy, but unless you went through Boston as a Boston Police recruit (BPD patch on your shoulder), you’ll have to go through the Boston Academy again if you’re hired as a Boston cop. The only exceptions ever made to this was when Ed Davis allowed laterals for a short time, but that window is long closed.

There is a Boston cop (may be retired by now) who went through the full BPA for a campus PD (most of his classmates were Boston Police), and within a year was hired by Boston. He had to do the entire BPA all over again, with the Boston patch on his shoulder.


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## PG1911

Foxy85 said:


> There seems to be more unanswered questions than solid information.
> 
> There will still be a “part time academy” however it will be the same hours as the FT academy (Re: FT academy on a PT basis) I know Quinsig is already gearing up to host one.
> 
> I appreciate everyone throwing what little information we are fed, on to the forums to keep us all informed!


Are they going to change the expiration standard to either give academy grads more time to get hired, or allow them to take refresher courses to keep up their certification for longer/indefinite time? If a recruit has to put in a year of time and then has only 2 years before the year they sacrificed at the academy becomes all for nothing, nobody's going to want to do that. I sure as hell wouldn't have done it if that's the way PA ran things!


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## RodneyFarva

Roy Fehler said:


> They absolutely can do that, departments have wide autonomy to set their own hiring standards.
> 
> You can be a graduate of every police academy in Massachusetts, including the Boston Police Academy, but unless you went through Boston as a Boston Police recruit (BPD patch on your shoulder), you’ll have to go through the Boston Academy again if you’re hired as a Boston cop. The only exceptions ever made to this was when Ed Davis allowed laterals for a short time, but that window is long closed.
> 
> There is a Boston cop (may be retired by now) who went through the full BPA for a campus PD (most of his classmates were Boston Police), and within a year was hired by Boston. He had to do the entire BPA all over again, with the Boston patch on his shoulder.


I knew they could and did in a lot of cases, but I was under the impression that POST was going to put an end to that. I know the MSP are doing their own thing... for now, but If you have a X amount of towns or cities in the state that hold their own academy all teaching different curriculum, I would think that would defeat the purpose of POST. 








Request an Exemption or Temporary Waiver


A person appointed to serve as a full-time police officer in Massachusetts may be granted an exemption, in whole or part, from the full-time police academy training requirement in certain limited circumstances.




www.mass.gov


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## Roy Fehler

RodneyFarva said:


> I knew they could and did in a lot of cases, but I was under the impression that POST was going to put an end to that. I know the MSP are doing their own thing... for now, but If you have a X amount of towns or cities in the state that hold their own academy all teaching different curriculum, I would think that would defeat the purpose of POST.


There already is a mandated curriculum that every academy has to include to be approved by the MPTC, many academies add to it, and I don’t think POST would care if there was _more_ training than what’s mandated.

I doubt you’ll ever see MSP or Boston PD accept any academy but their own, regardless of what POST recommends.


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## RodneyFarva

Maybe lateral to Boston but it will be a cold day in hell if MSP accepted other guys without going through an RTT.
I just think its awesome how the state plays with its law enforcement, a reform bill is introduced and singed into law and the crowds cheer and cheer! "good job" and "its about time" and even some of the tub thumping comes from the cops too. Now its time to implement it and its treated like a damn buffet line "I'll take this, but not that" "we can do this, but only 50% of it" "we want none of that" then we have the stones enough to argue the bill with the lady at the register. Got to love it.


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## Roy Fehler

RodneyFarva said:


> Maybe lateral to Boston but it will be a cold day in hell if MSP accepted other guys without going through an RTT.


Except, of course, the 700+ MDC, RMV, and Capitol cops in 1992.


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## MiamiVice

Roy Fehler said:


> They absolutely can do that, departments have wide autonomy to set their own hiring standards.
> 
> You can be a graduate of every police academy in Massachusetts, including the Boston Police Academy, but unless you went through Boston as a Boston Police recruit (BPD patch on your shoulder), you’ll have to go through the Boston Academy again if you’re hired as a Boston cop. The only exceptions ever made to this was when Ed Davis allowed laterals for a short time, but that window is long closed.
> 
> There is a Boston cop (may be retired by now) who went through the full BPA for a campus PD (most of his classmates were Boston Police), and within a year was hired by Boston. He had to do the entire BPA all over again, with the Boston patch on his shoulder.


They very quietly take laterals who attended the BPA and have been for a while, if the candidate had enough juice. 

Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


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## RodneyFarva

Roy Fehler said:


> Except, of course, the 700+ MDC, RMV, and Capitol cops in 1992.


I have been trying to find a picture but a group of troopers had tee shirts made, it was a tomb stone with "MSP 1865 -1992" on it.


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## becomingle40

MiamiVice said:


> I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


This seems like a silly attitude to have, considering that FT CERT or not, each department still has final say over who they hire for a FT position or not.

i’d imagine we will be seeing a manpower crisis if they don’t something forall the current reserves/PT guys. I know a lot of the small towns certainly will, and here in western MA even the bigger departments are all shortby the dozens it souns


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## Roy Fehler

RodneyFarva said:


> I have been trying to find a picture but a group of troopers had tee shirts made, it was a tomb stone with "MSP 1865 -1992" on it.


Look in the kindergarten section.


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## Foxy85

PG1911 said:


> Are they going to change the expiration standard to either give academy grads more time to get hired, or allow them to take refresher courses to keep up their certification for longer/indefinite time? If a recruit has to put in a year of time and then has only 2 years before the year they sacrificed at the academy becomes all for nothing, nobody's going to want to do that. I sure as hell wouldn't have done it if that's the way PA ran things!


There is no shortage of jobs right now. Departments are hurting for bodies everywhere. It will be like this for years to come, until the pendulum swings back the other way. No one wants a police job anymore. Hell this generation Coming up doesn’t even like working at all. There’s labor shortages everywhere.


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## northshorepi

Does anybody know how this will effect Boston Specials? I believe most of the "private housing" contracts require a certain percentage or above to have arrest powers.


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## RodneyFarva

northshorepi said:


> Does anybody know how this will effect Boston Specials? I believe most of the "private housing" contracts require a certain percentage or above to have arrest powers.


Do you have at very least a MPTC part-time academy?


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## northshorepi

I am not a special, I do have a number of friends that are and they have not be told what changes will take place when the new law goes into effect. Most of them have the Private Academy (John A. DeGutis).


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## Foxy85

Kind of interesting to see if that Rule 400 training applies to the police reform.

My guess is no if they haven’t heard anything about it. I know my agency was on us to complete our in-service through Acadis so that there was no issue July 1 when POST takes over.


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## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> Kind of interesting to see if that Rule 400 training applies to the police reform.
> 
> My guess is no if they haven’t heard anything about it. I know my agency was on us to complete our in-service through Acadis so that there was no issue July 1 when POST takes over.


Same here.


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## Roy Fehler

northshorepi said:


> Does anybody know how this will effect Boston Specials? I believe most of the "private housing" contracts require a certain percentage or above to have arrest powers.


They have to be full-time academy trained (or equivalent) or they won’t be certified, and therefore no arrest powers.


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## zm88

northshorepi said:


> Does anybody know how this will effect Boston Specials? I believe most of the "private housing" contracts require a certain percentage or above to have arrest powers.


Powers suspended effective 7/1. No plans in place.


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## k12kop

School Police are screwed.


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## PBC FL Cop

Everyone who exercises arrest powers will have to be certified thru POST. The bridge academy will be available to anyone who currently exercises arrest powers and has not completed a full-time MA police academy or received a Permanent Exemption from same.


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## oppisetter

So everyone that is currently working at a dept can attend the bridge training? I wonder if there is any hope for unemployed graduates of reserve academies with valid certifications (within the 2 years) to attend this training. Or if they spent all that money and time for a piece of paper now essentially rubbish. I would be in that same boat if I hadn't left MA. Have a lot of classmates looking for work with their valid reserve certifications and no where to go lol.....


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## PBC FL Cop

It is my understanding that everyone who is currently working as a reserve police officer, deputy sheriff, campus police officer etc., must attend the bridge academy within the next three years (broken down, alphabetically, for each of the next three years) to remain a certified LEO in Massachusetts. With that being said, the appointing authority is responsible for sponsoring the LEO to attend the bridge academy, if they so choose to do so. Once the LEO attends the bridge academy, they will be considered a POST certified LEO, which enables same to work full-time as a LEO in Commonwealth. Obviously this is a concern for many sheriffs, police chiefs, and campus chiefs as the may lose officers to other agencies, once the officer is POST certified.


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## Sgt Jack

MiamiVice said:


> I was with the director of the Mptc last week. They are strongly considering not allowing bridge to replace FT academy. There has been a lot of feedback on this from departments seeing people who otherwise couldn't make it in a recruit setting trying to exploit this one time loophole.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G986U1 using Tapatalk


I'm more curious about those like myself who have the Full SSPO. I also have the R/I too, which puts me over 700 plus academy hours combined. I'm hoping we're finally good to go for once like I've been hearing. Or are we going to still have to do another 800 hour academy?


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## PBC FL Cop

My understanding is that those who attended the full SSPO in New Braintree will be considered a POST certified LEO and will not require the bridge academy.


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## Roy Fehler

k12kop said:


> School Police are screwed.


The politicians have absolutely no clue as to the shit storm they’ve created.


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## zm88

Roy Fehler said:


> The politicians have absolutely no clue as to the shit storm they’ve created.


Every 400A department will essentially be a public safety entity. No powers. Only going to put more work on Boston.


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## PBC FL Cop

Interesting times...


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## oppisetter

I dont know how I could've thought it'd be any other way in MA. It sounds very much like the state to make all those certificates people spent time and money on to disappear. Glad I left. Kind of interested to hear on what massive spending comes next for the MA sheriffs' offices now that they'll be POST certified. Potato chip hats and new cruisers for the county patrol divisions.... sounds fun... tee hee


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## PG1911

PBC FL Cop said:


> It is my understanding that everyone who is currently working as a reserve police officer, deputy sheriff, campus police officer etc., must attend the bridge academy within the next three years (broken down, alphabetically, for each of the next three years) to remain a certified LEO in Massachusetts. With that being said, the appointing authority is responsible for sponsoring the LEO to attend the bridge academy, if they so choose to do so. Once the LEO attends the bridge academy, they will be considered a POST certified LEO, which enables same to work full-time as a LEO in Commonwealth. Obviously this is a concern for many sheriffs, police chiefs, and campus chiefs as the may lose officers to other agencies, once the officer is POST certified.


One thing I wonder is if, instead of just making every currently LEO a full cop through the POST academy, if they'll just create new statutes where sworn LEOs other than police officers would simply lose some, but not all, of their arrest powers. For example, in PA, the sheriffs are only charged with courtroom security, prisoner transport, paper service, warrant service, and fugitive recovery. They can only arrest on a warrant or breach of peace that they witnessed. They can't even charge for felonies committed during a warrant arrest (ex. They get a guy for failure to appear and find a bunch of heroin on him; they have the call the local or state police to charge for the heroin). 

Also, here in CT, probation and parole officers can arrest those in the custody of the DOC or Dept. of Probation and Parole. But they have no other police powers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but MA parole officers are considered SSPOs right? So I wonder if they'll just be like CT and have power only over their clients, or if they'll have to the bridge academy, and new guys will have to do the FT academy.


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## RodneyFarva

oppisetter said:


> I dont know how I could've thought it'd be any other way in MA. It sounds very much like the state to make all those certificates people spent time and money on to disappear. Glad I left. Kind of interested to hear on what massive spending comes next for the MA sheriffs' offices now that they'll be POST certified. Potato chip hats and new cruisers for the county patrol divisions.... sounds fun... tee hee


Don't forget the 1200$ custom made Alden riding boots.


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## oppisetter

RodneyFarva said:


> Don't forget the 1200$ custom made Alden riding boots.


Lmao!! How could I forget


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## RodneyFarva

PG1911 said:


> One thing I wonder is if, instead of just making every currently LEO a full cop through the POST academy, if they'll just create new statutes where sworn LEOs other than police officers would simply lose some, but not all, of their arrest powers. For example, in PA, the sheriffs are only charged with courtroom security, prisoner transport, paper service, warrant service, and fugitive recovery. They can only arrest on a warrant or breach of peace that they witnessed. They can't even charge for felonies committed during a warrant arrest (ex. They get a guy for failure to appear and find a bunch of heroin on him; they have the call the local or state police to charge for the heroin).
> 
> Also, here in CT, probation and parole officers can arrest those in the custody of the DOC or Dept. of Probation and Parole. But they have no other police powers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but MA parole officers are considered SSPOs right? So I wonder if they'll just be like CT and have power only over their clients, or if they'll have to the bridge academy, and new guys will have to do the FT academy.




SECTION 102. [Effective July 1, 2021] [Certifications, Waivers and Exemptions]

(a) Notwithstanding section 4 of chapter 6E of the General Laws or the preceding sentence, a law enforcement officer, as defined in section 1 of said chapter 6E, who has completed an academy or training program certified by the municipal police training committee or the training programs prescribed by chapter 22C of the General Laws on or before December 1, 2021, and is appointed as a law enforcement officer as of December 1, 2021,_ shall be certified _as of the effective date of this section. No officer who is certified pursuant to this section shall be required to complete or repeat a basic training program if such officer previously completed a basic training program provided or approved by the municipal police training committee or its predecessor, the criminal justice training council or received previous basic training that the municipal police training committee deems equivalent to Massachusetts training standards [Out of State]. 

(b) All law enforcement officers who have completed a reserve training program on or before the effective date of this section _shall be certified_ as of the effective date of this section. Prior to the expiration of that certification, _the officer shall complete additional training_ as required by the municipal police training committee.

_(c) Any training waiver or [permanent] exemption granted by the municipal police training committee prior to the effective date of this section shall expire 6 months after the effective date of this section._ Any person who has not completed an academy or training program certified by the municipal police training committee or the training programs prescribed by said chapter 22C on or before the effective date of this section, and has been appointed to a law enforcement position as of the effective date of this section, shall not exercise police powers following the expiration of any training waiver or exemption under this section. Prior to the expiration of this 6-month period, the person may obtain from the municipal police training committee a waiver or an extension of time necessary to complete training according to a work plan approved by the municipal police training committee.

(d) The certification of a law enforcement officer who has graduated from an academy or training program certified by the municipal police training committee or the training programs prescribed by said chapter 22C who is certified as a result of this section and whose last names begin with: A to H, inclusive, shall expire 1 year after the effective date of this section; (ii) I to P, inclusive, shall expire 2 years after the effective date of this section; and (iii) Q to Z, inclusive, shall expire 3 years after the effective date of this section.


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## Foxy85

PBC FL Cop said:


> Everyone who exercises arrest powers will have to be certified thru POST. The bridge academy will be available to anyone who currently exercises arrest powers and has not completed a full-time MA police academy or received a Permanent Exemption from same.


right but if they haven’t completed any MPTC reserve academy -then they still won’t be eligible for the bridge academy? Is the Rule 400 eligible to attend? Does MPTC recognize rule 400?

my guess for them is swapping to an armed security after 7/1?


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## Foxy85

oppisetter said:


> So everyone that is currently working at a dept can attend the bridge training? I wonder if there is any hope for unemployed graduates of reserve academies with valid certifications (within the 2 years) to attend this training. Or if they spent all that money and time for a piece of paper now essentially rubbish. I would be in that same boat if I hadn't left MA. Have a lot of classmates looking for work with their valid reserve certifications and no where to go lol.....


Geezus! Where were they looking? The last year, just about every agency around mine was looking for PT guys, and couldn’t get enough applicants. Now, through this reform and attrition, departments are just stealing from each other.


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## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> Geezus! Where were they looking? The last year, just about every agency around mine was looking for PT guys, and couldn’t get enough applicants. Now, through this reform and attrition, departments are just stealing from each other.


That is exactly what is going to happen. I thinking the part time academy will no longer exist in another 3 years.


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## Treehouse413

Sgt Jack said:


> I'm more curious about those like myself who have the Full SSPO. I also have the R/I too, which puts me over 700 plus academy hours combined. I'm hoping we're finally good to go for once like I've been hearing. Or are we going to still have to do another 800 hour academy?


From my info SSPO will be grandfathered and not have to attend bridge .


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## oppisetter

Foxy85 said:


> Geezus! Where were they looking? The last year, just about every agency around mine was looking for PT guys, and couldn’t get enough applicants. Now, through this reform and attrition, departments are just stealing from each other.


We had people from all over MA but mostly central and western MA if I remember correctly. It was a great course and building block for people interested in le. But about the departments fighting over staff, that is just a freaking shame. Unfortunately however, that's how it is in the DMV area as well. Some Departments and/or sheriff offices are down so bad they just fight over employed leos trying to entice them with take homes and friendly work environments. Hell, you can get paid $15 more an hour working armed security here (given you can get a clearance and meet the qual). Guys have left decent sheriff agencies to do it. I grew up watching family work this profession and I grew up wanting this job to be like them. It's a shame to see it so hated and disregarded. Keeping the faith and fighting the "good fight" though.


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## Roy Fehler

Goodbye Law & Order: City of Boston Removes All Rule 400 Officers July 1st


For those who are unaware of Rule 400, it is a provision governing the application, approval, and standards of what are called Boston Special Police Officers, or SPOs. These positions were created …




liveboston617.org


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## PBC FL Cop

Reserve academies in their current form, will no longer be offered. The new POST curriculum will require all recruits to either attend the full-time academy on a full-time basis or the full-time academy on an intermittent basis. In the end, both curriculums will be the same as far as hours, courses, firearms, DT, etc. The difference is one will be completed 40hrs per week while the other will be completed on a part-time basis, consisting of some nights and weekends. This allows for those with full-time jobs to pursue a law enforcement career, while working their regular job. This is common in many other states.


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## j809

PBC FL Cop said:


> Reserve academies in their current form, will no longer be offered. The new POST curriculum will require all recruits to either attend the full-time academy on a full-time basis or the full-time academy on an intermittent basis. In the end, both curriculums will be the same as far as hours, courses, firearms, DT, etc. The difference is one will be completed 40hrs per week while the other will be completed on a part-time basis, consisting of some nights and weekends. This allows for those with full-time jobs to pursue a law enforcement career, while working their regular job. This is common in many other states.


This is good. They also have to pass the physical and they do the PT in this new 9 month academy as they should be if they are going to be cops. I also heard that the bridge academy will not be enough to be a full time cop and mptc and post both said it was not the intention to be a replacement of a recruit academy but some towns are messing around and they heard about it 


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## PBC FL Cop

As of right now, once POST takes effect, there will be only one certification in the Commonwealth; _certified law enforcement officer_. There will no longer be part-time vs. full-time certified officers, only certified officers, therefore, the bridge academy will certify reserve officers/deputy sheriffs/campus police officers as MA LEOs without having to attend a full-time academy. This is an excellent opportunity for reserves/deputy sheriffs/campus officers to obtain a, per se, full-time certification via the bridge academy without attending the full-time academy and would be eligible to be hired as a full-time municipal police officer without any further training. Full-time trained SSPOs will immediately become certified MA LEOs and eligible to be hired as full-time municipal officers as well. Reserves/deputy sheriffs/campus officers who choice not to attend the bridge academy or are not allowed to attend same will be decertified over the next three years by alphabetical order. This is an approximate estimation but last names ending in A-I have one year, J-R have two years, and S-Z have three years to complete the bridge academy or they will be decertified. 

This has caused considerable concern for Sheriffs and Campus Police Chiefs in regards to retention of their officers but as of right now, their concerns have fallen on deaf ears. The unintended consequences of rushing through legislation without understanding the full affect of their actions.


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## j809

That’s old news. New stuff is happening 


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## PBC FL Cop

As of yesterday, but only the future will tell.


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## Oliverollie07

New here, but I have a question. What about reserve police officers that had the old reserve academy hours? (120 something hours I believe) but has been a reserve police officer for more than 20+ years. Are they eligible for the bridge academy?


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## j809

What they should have done is like other post states. Have different tiers. Traffic cones should do minimum reserve academy they have with inservice. You work in a cruiser then you need full time equivalent 


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## Foxy85

j809 said:


> This is good. They also have to pass the physical and they do the PT in this new 9 month academy as they should be if they are going to be cops. I also heard that the bridge academy will not be enough to be a full time cop and mptc and post both said it was not the intention to be a replacement of a recruit academy but some towns are messing around and they heard about it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Completely untrue in regards to PTers not being certified FT with the bridge academy. I have an officer working under waiver currently until bridge academy is offered and then will take one of our FT slots once completed.


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## j809

Foxy85 said:


> Completely untrue in regards to PTers not being certified FT with the bridge academy. I have an officer working under waiver currently until bridge academy is offered and then will take one of our FT slots once completed.


That is the problem. Departments are trying to circumvent recruit academies by taking part time trained people with a bridge academy and making them full time. This is why they’re looking at this problem very seriously. Also read the law 41-96B. It’s kind of reminiscent when civilian inspectors in the Registry were merged in the MSP and almost all of them had no police academy training. 


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## Foxy85

j809 said:


> That is the problem. Departments are trying to circumvent recruit academies by taking part time trained people with a bridge academy and making them full time. This is why they’re looking at this problem very seriously. Also read the law 41-96B. It’s kind of reminiscent when civilian inspectors in the Registry were merged in the MSP and almost all of them had no police academy training.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A lot of PT officers are already doing the job though. What I mean, is that in a small town, it’s not uncommon for PTers to be on the road by themselves. A lot of small towns have good, capable PT officers, performing the same tasks as a FT officer during their shift. So to give them additional training, and allowing them to go FT, I’m not sure I see “the problem.” If anything the small towns will struggle to retain anyone (part time) because it will allow their guys to seek FT positions elsewhere.

If you’re referring to an auxiliary who’s been doing nothing but details for the past 10 years with his reserve academy, then I can kind of see the argument, but a simple interview would weed those guys out?

The only thing I see at this point is lack of physical training which can be easily overcome by a hiring agency simply instituting a Cooper test or an obstacle course prior to employment.


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## EUPD377

This will certainly be interesting to see what will happen with the rule 400/400a agencies and their equivalents (I know Springfield swears in SPO’s and they’re fairly common in the city). I’m guessing that security companies are going to have to hire guys who have gone through a full academy or pay for them to go to one if they want police powers. We have the same situation in NC (they call them special police or company police here). They have to go through a full academy and then have full police powers on the properties they’re hired to guard. 

Of course the problem is, the full academy is way too expensive for these private companies to send people through. The only company I’ve ever heard of sponsoring is G4S, who has a huge contract to be the transit police for the Charlotte transit authority. Of course, this means that the companies have to rely on hiring self-sponsors or retired cops from other agencies. Problem being, nobody really wants to work there, so they lose most new hires within a few months to a city/county/university, and end up with just the retired guys who have no desire or do any police work and just want an extra check on the side (can’t blame them, I’ll be the same way when I get out). 

BPD is going to have a ton of extra work to pick up if all the 400/400a agencies don’t have arrest powers anymore. Armed security, to my understanding at least, has no real authority in MA, so they’re basically going to be scarecrows with guns.


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## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> It’s kind of reminiscent when civilian inspectors in the Registry were merged in the MSP and almost all of them had no police academy training.


Not even close to being true.

The RMV Police ran their own FT MCJTC-approved academy at Needham for many years, where they trained not only RMV recruits, but also city and town recruits.

Don’t drink the circa-1992 SPAM Kool-Aid, Registry Inspectors were absolutely academy trained. With statewide authority, they better have been.


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## Roy Fehler

EUPD377 said:


> BPD is going to have a ton of extra work to pick up if all the 400/400a agencies don’t have arrest powers anymore. Armed security, to my understanding at least, has no real authority in MA, so they’re basically going to be scarecrows with guns.


It will actually be somewhat amusing, as the Boston Police Union has railed for years against any entity other than themselves that have arrest powers in the city.

This could turn into a perfect example of “Be careful what you wish for, because you may get it”.


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## j809

Roy Fehler said:


> Not even close to being true.
> 
> The RMV Police ran their own FT MCJTC-approved academy at Needham for many years, where they trained not only RMV recruits, but also city and town recruits.
> 
> Don’t drink the circa-1992 SPAM Kool-Aid, Registry Inspectors were absolutely academy trained. With statewide authority, they better have been.


Not true at all. Yes some had an academy but before the merger in order for the union to bolster its numbers, merged many civilians into the police and called them inspectors. At the merger many had no academy at all and they had to do a special 6 or 8 weeks class for them at the SPA. Now MDC police was squared away and the capital cops all had academies. 


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## PBC FL Cop

All of the Registry Police were "Inspectors". 




__





The Mass Motor Vehicle Inspectors Association - Home Page






mmvia.homestead.com


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## j809

Yes but they appointed many civilians as inspectors before the merger. Then they were troopers with no training. Trust me I know people 


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## PBC FL Cop

Nothing would surprise me


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## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> Not true at all. Yes some had an academy but before the merger in order for the union to bolster its numbers, merged many civilians into the police and called them inspectors. At the merger many had no academy at all and they had to do a special 6 or 8 weeks class for them at the SPA. Now MDC police was squared away and the capital cops all had academies.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Again, don’t drink the SPAM Kool-Aid.

Name one RMV Inspector who didn’t have the FT Academy, and the date and location of this mythical 6-8 week “academy” that made civilians into troopers. I’ll be more than pleased to file a public records request and pay the duplication fees to confirm it.

HINT: You can’t.


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## PG1911

PBC FL Cop said:


> Reserve academies in their current form, will no longer be offered. The new POST curriculum will require all recruits to either attend the full-time academy on a full-time basis or the full-time academy on an intermittent basis. In the end, both curriculums will be the same as far as hours, courses, firearms, DT, etc. The difference is one will be completed 40hrs per week while the other will be completed on a part-time basis, consisting of some nights and weekends. This allows for those with full-time jobs to pursue a law enforcement career, while working their regular job. This is common in many other states.


Yep, that's what we did when I went through the academy in PA. Same curriculum, same hours, same everything except my class was 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week, plus 9 Sundays of firearms training, all spread out over 48 weeks. The academy training is good for life there too. After graduation, you need to take the state certification test (which is pretty easy overall) and the test is good for 2 years. If you don't get hired within 2 years, you need to take the test again, but your academy is still good, unless hours have been added, in which case you need to make up the extra hours to take the test again.


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## PBC FL Cop

That is very similar to Florida certifications and state exam process.


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## NEPS

Oliverollie07 said:


> New here, but I have a question. What about reserve police officers that had the old reserve academy hours? (120 something hours I believe) but has been a reserve police officer for more than 20+ years. Are they eligible for the bridge academy?


Everyone with a reserve/intermittent level academy will be eligible for the bridge academy, I believe, regardless of when the officer attended the original academy.


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## PG1911

NEPS said:


> Everyone with a reserve/intermittent level academy will be eligible for the bridge academy, I believe, regardless of when the officer attended the original academy.


This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming that the bridge academy is only for those who are already on the job as reserve officers, or who have completed the academy in the past two years. Not those of us whose MA R/I academy has lapsed.


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## Glock48

PG1911 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming that the bridge academy is only for those who are already on the job as reserve officers, or who have completed the academy in the past two years. Not those of us whose MA R/I academy has lapsed.


This is a safe assumption. We can only assume the first seats to these bridge-academies will be filled with actively working Reserves.


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## mpd61

j809 said:


> That is the problem. *Departments* are trying to circumvent recruit academies by *taking part time trained people with a bridge academy and making them full time*. This is why they’re looking at this problem very seriously. Also read the law 41-96B. It’s kind of reminiscent when civilian inspectors in the Registry were merged in the MSP and almost all of them had no police academy training.


Why such a hard-on?
1. Doesn't your department exercise an autonomous hiring process with your own agency specific requirements and high standards?
2. Does what other departments may do under this "Bridge Academy" doctrine impact your agency in any particular way?
3. Do you not believe the Bridge Academy is intended to be a _short term_ transitional tool?
The Reserve/Intermittent Academy is arguably DEAD. Relax my friend, it doesn't have to be so painful.


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## NEPS

Perhaps I should be more precise. I think the “automatic” initial grant of certification on July 1 requires the officer to be currently working as an officer. Those with the RI academy are eligible for the bridge. Those with exemption or waiver have six months to get their situation resolved individually.


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## RodneyFarva

PG1911 said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I'm assuming that the bridge academy is only for those who are already on the job as reserve officers, or who have completed the academy in the past two years. Not those of us whose MA R/I academy has lapsed.


correct... so far.


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## Fatcop1776

According to the MPTC minutes, the 200 hour academy is still being planned.


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## Foxy85

Fatcop1776 said:


> According to the MPTC minutes, the 200 hour academy is still being planned.


minutes from... March?

I don’t see anything current on the Mass.gov website..


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## j809

Not what I got from yesterday’s meeting 


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## becomingle40

j809 said:


> Not what I got from yesterday’s meeting
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


 What did you get from yesterdays meeting?


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## kpf94

Did anything get resolved on 7/1 when the new reform was supposed to kick in? I saw the POST commission released some training document for de-escalation but have yet to see any official announcements anywhere other than the typical; “I heard from Johnny down the block” or “My coworker was in a training and heard from another officer there”…as far as I’m concerned that’s all wild speculation with no real truth to back it up, yet. If those hypotheses end up coming true then all the power to them, but until then I was just wondering if anybody got any internal MPTC/POST emails or ACADIS training announcements regarding the bridge academy now that reservists have allegedly been grandfathered and the track to get them to full hours starts.


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## RodneyFarva

I don't know what you guys heard, but I just got fitted for my 16" Alden riding boots...😂


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## JR90

They issued me an SSPO badge for some reason


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## adamo413

What's the good word ? Typical smoke and mirrors to try and appease the sheep and make them feel the state is woke?


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## Foxy85

Still a lot of unknown. I’ve now heard rumors of additional hours beyond the originally discussed 200 and the cooper standards to enter the “bridge academy”...


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## PBC FL Cop

I should hear more on Thursday and will advise of any new developments.


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## kpf94

PBC FL Cop said:


> I should hear more on Thursday and will advise of any new developments.


Did you hear anything in your meeting today?


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## Fatcop1776

A friend did a records request and got the MPTC minutes for April and May. Why they aren’t just linked on the mass.gov webpage is beyond me. Here are screenshots of what everyone here cares about.

Doesn’t look like anything is concrete, however anyone anywhere to my knowledge who has stated they “heard” anything contrary to the 200 hour model has yet to cite anything or show documentation. The model described here is basically identical to what the bridge academy was first described to be months ago.

The first batch of part timers (A through whatever) have less than a year before their grace period is over, the MPTC has no choice but to make this happen unless they want to put small departments across the Commonwealth out of business.


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## PBC FL Cop

As of now, the bridge academy specs and POST certifications have not changed. How and when they are going to be conducted is still being decided. Basically nothing new to report.


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## Glock48

Fatcop1776 said:


> A friend did a records request and got the MPTC minutes for April and May. Why they aren’t just linked on the mass.gov webpage is beyond me. Here are screenshots of what everyone here cares about.





https://www.mass.gov/doc/municipal-police-training-committee-mptc-meeting-minutes-042121/download




https://www.mass.gov/doc/municipal-police-training-committee-mptc-meeting-minutes-051921/download



New MPTC Meeting updates have been posted; of note are the afformentioned information on Bridge Academies previously posted by Fatcop:

*Bridge Academy - ED Ferullo*: _expects to provide a framework for the Committee to review next month. The goal is to provide a 200-hour academy, including 120 hours of practical skills training and eighty (80) hours of on-line course work with a test that the student must pass to graduate. The MPTC is considering several options, including having a la carte options and making options available throughout the state. ED Ferullo indicated there will need to be cooperation with the various departments so that trainings have adequate attendance. It will not be fiscally possible to conduct training that do not have minimum attendance requirements.

It may become necessary to consider alternatives to Fort Devens for firearm trainings. Fort Devens now requires municipalities to obtain $2 million liability insurance policies with Fort Devens listed as a recipient on the policy. ED Ferullo has begun looking for alterative structures. ED Ferullo had productive meetings with the sheriffs and with the constables. Sheriff Nicholas Cocchi will take the lead on data collection for the sheriffs and will work with the Acadis team. _(*This is presumably regarding deputies being added to MPTC Training Cert/Licensing database*)

_There is a suggested infrastructure for the academic portion of the bridge academy. The next step is to determine how to facilitate the skill development courses. There will also have to be decisions made as to whether exemptions will be allowed for certain courses. There are ongoing conversations about the integration of campus police instructors into the MPTC certification program. There are also ongoing efforts to obtain additional training facilities for firearms and facilities and equipment for EVOC training. _

Also of note is the PERMANENT EXEMPTION, prior to the July 1st grandfather date, of two officers who simply had SSPO/Reserve. One even had the 120-HOUR Intermittent combined with 560-HOUR SSPO from 2001! *I am excluding their years of service here, as previously, before reform, even 20 years at a State-Uni would not grant Permanent Exemption*

Also Fuck SSPO!


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## Gary113

Anyone know what MPTC or State Police want to do about DMH / DPH Police? There are a few SSPOs in both, and it is the opinion of some in AFSCME that because the reform bill does not mention the chapters of law covering them, they are exempt from the reform bill. Are they just done as SSPOs once it comes time to renew their powers and they see there is no bridge academy?


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## Glock48

Gary113 said:


> Anyone know what MPTC or State Police want to do about DMH / DPH Police? There are a few SSPOs in both, and it is the opinion of some in AFSCME that because the reform bill does not mention the chapters of law covering them, they are exempt from the reform bill. Are they just done as SSPOs once it comes time to renew their powers and they see there is no bridge academy?


If those inquiring minds _actually_ read the bill they would know that just because specific chapters and sections are not expressly mentioned does not exempt anyone _performing the duties of a Law Enforcement Officer _from being held to the standards of POST and the MPTC.

This includes DMH/DPH.

Also what nonsense is this about "done as SSPOs"? The authority granted to them will still come from the MSP as a SSPO Licensure, however, they will now also be considered fulltime certified by the MPTC and POST (meaning they can work for municipalities).

If their SSPO Licensure was granted via a waiver (think reserve + 60 college credits) they will be required to attend bridge academy to be up to standard.


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## Gary113

Glock48 said:


> If those inquiring minds _actually_ read the bill they would know that just because specific chapters and sections are not expressly mentioned does not exempt anyone _performing the duties of a Law Enforcement Officer _from being held to the standards of POST and the MPTC.
> 
> This includes DMH/DPH.
> 
> Also what nonsense is this about "done as SSPOs"? The authority granted to them will still come from the MSP as a SSPO Licensure, however, they will now also be considered fulltime certified by the MPTC and POST (meaning they can work for municipalities).
> 
> If their SSPO Licensure was granted via a waiver (think reserve + 60 college credits) they will be required to attend bridge academy to be up to standard.


I think I did a bad job phrasing / asking things. It is more of a statement and maybe a question. I read the law and know what i think. That said, a major union - AFSCME, claims they read it too and at this point thinks because section 59 ( SSPOs in DMH) and section 60 (DPH SSPOs) are not mentioned those SSPOs are exempt from the law and therefore do not need to attend a bridge academy ( so they will eventually be de certified).That is their opinion so far, but they will be re examining things. So at this point, if you wish to bridge, you may want to leave while you can or avoid those places when applying
Am I missing some aspect of this or will those guys with police powers just be de certified and that's that? My rationale is if the union isn't pushing, i doubt DMH or DPH will willingly send guys (and girls) to the bridge academy. Or are they somehow allowed to keep having police powers through some weird interpretation of the wonderful reform law?


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## RodneyFarva

Well I have the firearms part already under my belt.


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## k12kop

RodneyFarva said:


> Well I have the firearms part already under my belt.
> 
> View attachment 10625


Just gotta go and set off some seizures don't you?


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## mpd61

Gary113 said:


> . That said, a major union - *AFSCME*, claims they read it too and at this point *thinks* because section 59 ( SSPOs in DMH) and section 60 (DPH SSPOs) are not mentioned those SSPOs are exempt from the law and therefore do not need to attend a bridge academy ( so they will eventually be de certified).That is _*their opinion*_ so far, but they will be re examining things. So at this point, if you wish to bridge, you may want to leave while you can or avoid those places when applying


AFSCME is the biggest joke when it comes to anything regarding "police" representation. Council#93 and Local 1067 DO NOT go out of their way to fight for cops. Don't believe me?
Research the fine job they did at Massasoit in 2005-2010. Besides, can you expect a union of thousands of boiler plant operators, housekeepers, maintainers, IT Techs, librarians, clerks, media aides, painters, electricians, etc to fight for 172 Campus Cops? They only ever fought once to keep them from severing back nearly two decades ago. They are enjoying a political relationship with their employers who are BTW the Board of Higher Education, NOT any L.E. Agency. Need more proof? Check out Appendix O of the last Local#1067 contract. 2017 to 2020. They continue to reference the MCJTC as the training agency. They haven't even existed for years? The whole section is an afterthought. Who was negotiating for, and writing this garbage? I can assure you it wasn't the campus cops!
So please don't exhibit AFSCME here as any legitimate partner to "Police Reform". They are NOT relevant to any of this. They are NOT any kind of player in this game. They are the main reason the state schools got all twisted into the SSPO mess. FUCK ASFCME!!!!


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## Glock48

I laughed at your quote.


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## FAPD

Gary113 said:


> Anyone know what MPTC or State Police want to do about DMH / DPH Police? There are a few SSPOs in both, and it is the opinion of some in AFSCME that because the reform bill does not mention the chapters of law covering them, they are exempt from the reform bill. Are they just done as SSPOs once it comes time to renew their powers and they see there is no bridge academy?


Again, WTF does AFSCME know about it? Opinion? Following their union logic the Boston specials (rule 400) were not mentioned specifically in the bill like DMH/DDS. SO I guess they're exempt from the bill too? Oh wait, shit that didn't work. They're GONE!!!!!

It's all about certification and being a certified police officer. Wait until the stuff all settles, or let some union schmuck playing lawyer wanna be give you the facts.


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## PBC FL Cop

Basically _anyone_ who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a _law enforcement officer _through MPTC_. _The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the _Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel_. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.

Stay safe!!


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## RodneyFarva

PBC FL Cop said:


> Basically _anyone_ who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a _law enforcement officer _through MPTC_. _The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the _Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel_. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.
> 
> Stay safe!!


 I would hit "like" a thousands times if I could, I personally believe if you are a sworn police officer in (What ever boro, Mass) your powers of arrest/stop/investigate should not just halt at your towns boarders but should be honored state wide. When I first got on the job we had town issued police ID's that stated: _"This is to certify that the bearer, whose signature and photograph appear on the reverse side, is an appointed Officer of the Town of (Redacted) police department, and as such Is charged with the duty of investigating violations of the laws of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the town of (Redacted), with authority to serve warrants and all criminal processes. As per Massachusetts General Law; Chapter 41: section 98." _

This would put the headache of writing up mutual aid agreements with surrounding towns to bed, or for instance, let say, your running plates in the center of your town/city (Comm V. Starr) a vehicle passes you so you plug the plate in to your MDT or dispatch, after some time goes by you get a hit showing the vehicle is revoked and the RO's license is suspended for his or her 5th OUI. Now the vehicle/violator has a pretty good lead on you and by the time you catch up to him to effect a MV stop you have crossed over the town line. Keep in mind you didn't initiate a pursuit (MGL Chap 90 Section 25) the vehicle was operating in a safe way and crossed over the line before you could light 'em up. As it stands now you would have to request permission from the highest ranking supervisor of your town and the town/city you are now in to effect a M/V stop. I know there are a couple of exceptions to the rule and several obscure case laws you could cite, but as for that if you went ahead and stopped the vehicle and it turned into something big, any defense lawyer worth his salt will file a motion to suppress any evidence discovered during the stop simply because you were over the line out of your jurisdiction. (the fruits of the poisonous tree). Now once everyone is POST certified I would imagine your police powers would be state wide..


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## PBC FL Cop

"Now once everyone is POST certified I would imagine your police powers would be state wide."

Actually, it does not. The POST certification does not increase one's jurisdiction, only standardizes training for all law enforcement officers.


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## Gary113

PBC FL Cop said:


> Basically _anyone_ who exercised arrests powers in the Commonwealth must be POST certified as a _law enforcement officer _through MPTC_. _The former concept of different certifications for part-time vs. full-time police officers, campus police officers vs. municipal police officers vs. deputy sheriffs is being consolidated into one POST certification through MPTC. Sheriffs once again have seats on the MPTC as they did under its predecessor agency, the _Massachusetts Criminal Justice Training Counsel_. If a specific agency does not allow their officers to become certified through POST they will cease to be granted powers of arrest, hence the purpose of the POST system under the new police reform bill.
> 
> Stay safe!!


I have had some more conversations with other people about this issue. For those that are employed under the net of the Executive office of health and human services....although no one will officially say it, they have no plans to get anyone POST certifiied, and like I mentioned earlier the union does not intend to push for POST certification, because of how they interpret the bill. DMH / DPH is a decent place to start out or come to as a retirement job. You come, get an academy, get your SSPO and off you go, to another SSPO job.
Problem is...some of those hospitals need SOME VERSION of law enforcement. There are violent patients, prisoners from every county, female lifers from MCI Framingham. They commit acts of violence, try and get drugs and contraband in. Maybe State or local will be happy to show up, but maybe not. They probably have bigger fish to fry. 
So, looks like another group of people that if they want to stay a law enforcement officer need to find other jobs because their agency is all done with them. I would be interested to see outside the rule 400s any agencies or hospitals etc that will not go ahead with POST and drop police altogether.


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## EUPD377

I think POST is really the way to go. We go by a different name here in NC, but it’s the same concept. Whether you’re a highway patrol trooper, deputy, city cop, campus, hospital, special, Capitol cop, wildlife officer, park ranger, etc, you’re certified by the state and can go to any other agency. Some agencies like SHP and big cities still want laterals to go to their academy, but that’s purely an internal policy issue. You could be a campus cop at the smallest college in the state, and your training requirements and certification will be exactly the same as if you worked in the biggest city.

My fear with its implementation in MA is that because of the huge hodgepodge of different training standards currently, a lot of places that employed sworn officers will cease to do so because they don’t want to deal with the time, money, or hassle of getting their officers fully trained and certified. Let’s be real, a lot of the 400A agencies in Boston should continue to employ sworn officers, such as park rangers and school police. Even a lot of the private companies that patrol housing projects and make arrests under 400 should still be sworn. However, I’m sure we all know that the city and the private companies are just going to cut arrest powers because they don’t want to deal with the cost of sending people to a full academy and the commensurate pay increases they will need to put out to keep people there.

On top of that, with the whole “defund/abolish the police” movement, especially in liberal MA, a lot of places are now going to have extra incentive to get rid of cops. If I’m the spineless, Bernie-loving, Prius-driving vice president of business, finance, food service, parking, rubbish disposal, toilet cleaning, and public safety at Dinkenwieler College of Liberal Arts in North Bumblefuck, I probably already don’t really care for the college PD, or even really know they exist. Now the chief comes to me and says “hey in order to be in line with the new state standards, we’re going to have to send all our officers to extra training over the next year and get them certified, please can we have some overtime money to pay them while they go through training?”. I’m sitting behind my desk and thinking “shit most of the students (or at least the loud ones) seem to want cops gone anyways, we’re broke as fuck from COVID and don’t want to pay overtime, plus how much do you fuckers really do anyways? My campus is so very safe and insulated from the world, nothing bad could happen here.” Then I’m gonna decide “fuck you guys, you’re now the department of campus safety, turn in your handcuffs and blue lights. Also have fun taking a 60% paycut now that you’re only security. My boss is gonna love me for saving all this money!”


The end result of all these smaller specialized agencies disappearing is that ultimately a portion of their work that can’t be handled by security guards (aka scarecrows since they don’t really have any power at all in MA) will have to be picked up by the state police or the municipal agency that holds jurisdiction. This is coming right when budgets are getting slashed in the name of “social justice” and the politicians are never going to vote to spend more on the police, since that’s political suicide and a one-way ticket to being called racist in a lot of jurisdictions, no matter how much the police department explains that they are having to take on new duties due to the disappearance of smaller LE agencies.

It will certainly be a circus.


----------



## j809

RodneyFarva said:


> I would hit "like" a thousands times if I could, I personally believe if you are a sworn police officer in (What ever boro, Mass) your powers of arrest/stop/investigate should not just halt at your towns boarders but should be honored state wide. When I first got on the job we had town issued police ID's that stated: _"This is to certify that the bearer, whose signature and photograph appear on the reverse side, is an appointed Officer of the Town of (Redacted) police department, and as such Is charged with the duty of investigating violations of the laws of The Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the town of (Redacted), with authority to serve warrants and all criminal processes. As per Massachusetts General Law; Chapter 41: section 98." _
> 
> This would put the headache of writing up mutual aid agreements with surrounding towns to bed, or for instance, let say, your running plates in the center of your town/city (Comm V. Starr) a vehicle passes you so you plug the plate in to your MDT or dispatch, after some time goes by you get a hit showing the vehicle is revoked and the RO's license is suspended for his or her 5th OUI. Now the vehicle/violator has a pretty good lead on you and by the time you catch up to him to effect a MV stop you have crossed over the town line. Keep in mind you didn't initiate a pursuit (MGL Chap 90 Section 25) the vehicle was operating in a safe way and crossed over the line before you could light 'em up. As it stands now you would have to request permission from the highest ranking supervisor of your town and the town/city you are now in to effect a M/V stop. I know there are a couple of exceptions to the rule and several obscure case laws you could cite, but as for that if you went ahead and stopped the vehicle and it turned into something big, any defense lawyer worth his salt will file a motion to suppress any evidence discovered during the stop simply because you were over the line out of your jurisdiction. (the fruits of the poisonous tree). Now once everyone is POST certified I would imagine your police powers would be state wide..


Not an issue with LEC agreements. I can pull over a car and make an arrest in any town under CEMLEC 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PBC FL Cop

j809 said:


> Not an issue with LEC agreements. I can pull over a car and make an arrest in any town under CEMLEC


Different areas have different agreements to expand jurisdiction, to include being sworn in as deputy sheriffs which offer countywide jurisdiction.


----------



## CCCSD

If I’m an SSPO who is a sworn constable who got granted SSPO powers by the MSP working for DOH as an SPO who is armed on every second Tuesday and a member of the union who has a LTC with a CVPI equipped with blue lights who can serve civil warrants, can I buy ice cream on Thursdays? 
Asking for a friend.


----------



## Goose

CCCSD said:


> If I’m an SSPO who is a sworn constable who got granted SSPO powers by the MSP working for DOH as an SPO who is armed on every second Tuesday and a member of the union who has a LTC with a CVPI equipped with blue lights who can serve civil warrants, can I buy ice cream on Thursdays?
> Asking for a friend.


Of course you can, it's New England!!


----------



## Foxy85

Back to the original question - any update on the bridge academy or is it all just rumors floating around out there?


----------



## RodneyFarva

still nothing...


Foxy85 said:


> Back to the original question - any update on the bridge academy or is it all just rumors floating around out there?


----------



## RodneyFarva

j809 said:


> Not an issue with LEC agreements. I can pull over a car and make an arrest in any town under CEMLEC
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Does that cover the whole state or just the towns and municipalities that have an agreement with CEMLEC ?


----------



## j809

RodneyFarva said:


> Does that cover the whole state or just the towns and municipalities that have an agreement with CEMLEC ?


All the communities under CEMLEC like 80 cities and towns. Bordering towns always cross over and make arrests no problem for what you stated earlier. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## j809

PBC FL Cop said:


> Different areas have different agreements to expand jurisdiction, to include being sworn in as deputy sheriffs which offer countywide jurisdiction.


Don’t need to. I’m on the regional recon team and work fatals in all those towns with full prosecutorial powers. Agreement gives us all full powers. I’m sure nemlec and others are all similar 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mma798

Will MSP still offer the SSPO academy since everybody will be full-time certified? I understand MSP will still certify SSPOs.


----------



## EJS12213

mma798 said:


> Will MSP still offer the SSPO academy since everybody will be full-time certified? I understand MSP will still certify SSPOs.


I don't see them stopping. I am sure they make some good money off all the private schools that will probably continue to use it.


----------



## EJS12213

EUPD377 said:


> I think POST is really the way to go. We go by a different name here in NC, but it’s the same concept. Whether you’re a highway patrol trooper, deputy, city cop, campus, hospital, special, Capitol cop, wildlife officer, park ranger, etc, you’re certified by the state and can go to any other agency. Some agencies like SHP and big cities still want laterals to go to their academy, but that’s purely an internal policy issue. You could be a campus cop at the smallest college in the state, and your training requirements and certification will be exactly the same as if you worked in the biggest city.
> 
> My fear with its implementation in MA is that because of the huge hodgepodge of different training standards currently, a lot of places that employed sworn officers will cease to do so because they don’t want to deal with the time, money, or hassle of getting their officers fully trained and certified. Let’s be real, a lot of the 400A agencies in Boston should continue to employ sworn officers, such as park rangers and school police. Even a lot of the private companies that patrol housing projects and make arrests under 400 should still be sworn. However, I’m sure we all know that the city and the private companies are just going to cut arrest powers because they don’t want to deal with the cost of sending people to a full academy and the commensurate pay increases they will need to put out to keep people there.
> 
> On top of that, with the whole “defund/abolish the police” movement, especially in liberal MA, a lot of places are now going to have extra incentive to get rid of cops. If I’m the spineless, Bernie-loving, Prius-driving vice president of business, finance, food service, parking, rubbish disposal, toilet cleaning, and public safety at Dinkenwieler College of Liberal Arts in North Bumblefuck, I probably already don’t really care for the college PD, or even really know they exist. Now the chief comes to me and says “hey in order to be in line with the new state standards, we’re going to have to send all our officers to extra training over the next year and get them certified, please can we have some overtime money to pay them while they go through training?”. I’m sitting behind my desk and thinking “shit most of the students (or at least the loud ones) seem to want cops gone anyways, we’re broke as fuck from COVID and don’t want to pay overtime, plus how much do you fuckers really do anyways? My campus is so very safe and insulated from the world, nothing bad could happen here.” Then I’m gonna decide “fuck you guys, you’re now the department of campus safety, turn in your handcuffs and blue lights. Also have fun taking a 60% paycut now that you’re only security. My boss is gonna love me for saving all this money!”
> 
> 
> The end result of all these smaller specialized agencies disappearing is that ultimately a portion of their work that can’t be handled by security guards (aka scarecrows since they don’t really have any power at all in MA) will have to be picked up by the state police or the municipal agency that holds jurisdiction. This is coming right when budgets are getting slashed in the name of “social justice” and the politicians are never going to vote to spend more on the police, since that’s political suicide and a one-way ticket to being called racist in a lot of jurisdictions, no matter how much the police department explains that they are having to take on new duties due to the disappearance of smaller LE agencies.
> 
> It will certainly be a circus.


The Boston School police are already gone. The Boston Schools were already working on getting rid of them, this just made it happen faster. 




__





Boston School Police Quietly Phased Out from All BPS Schools – The Boston Sun






thebostonsun.com


----------



## Glock48

mma798 said:


> Will MSP still offer the SSPO academy since everybody will be full-time certified? I understand MSP will still certify SSPOs.


Good question.

Seeing as the SPMA/SSPO have ran concurrent for years now (without receiving a FT Academy because of politics) it is a possibility that they do away with a traditional SSPO Academy.

The only difference between the SPMA/SSPO classes was that they were provided with a Clery and Title IX curriculum which is roughly only 2 days of classroom.

18 weeks and 800 hours of pain to be locked and chained to campus policing. Ouch. Thank God for police reform.


----------



## Glock48

EJS12213 said:


> I don't see them stopping. I am sure they make some good money off all the private schools that will probably continue to use it.


SSPO was provided FREE of TUITION if I remember correctly. The benefit for the MSP was on the backend (i.e SSPO licenses and fees).

Not to mention most SSPO/SPMA classes were a dry run for the RTT. (Often finishing just weeks before an RTT began)


----------



## EUPD377

EJS12213 said:


> The Boston School police are already gone. The Boston Schools were already working on getting rid of them, this just made it happen faster.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boston School Police Quietly Phased Out from All BPS Schools – The Boston Sun
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> thebostonsun.com


This is exactly what I was referring to. People actively despise a lot of police agencies, and now they have a convenient excuse to get rid of at least some of them quickly.


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## kpf94

We are 37 days past the alleged "deadline" and not a single thing has been said about the bridge academy, future of reserves, police reform, etc. I don't know whether to be worried or very worried the longer this goes with no information released.


----------



## Goose

kpf94 said:


> We are 37 days past the alleged "deadline" and not a single thing has been said about the bridge academy, future of reserves, police reform, etc. I don't know whether to be worried or very worried the longer this goes with no information released.


It's the Commonwealth...what did you expect?


----------



## kpf94

Goose said:


> It's the Commonwealth...what did you expect?


Fair enough lol...I at least expected them to announce a delay till 1/1/2022 or something but not total radio silence


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## Treehouse413

I heard yesterday they the powers to be may have it set if you take the bridge academy it’s only good for your current department and if you were to leave for another you’d have to attend the full MPTC.


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## CCCSD

Oh FFS!


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## kpf94

Treehouse413 said:


> I heard yesterday they the powers to be may have it set if you take the bridge academy it’s only good for your current department and if you were to leave for another you’d have to attend the full MPTC.


I have also heard this within my department, but it would seem to fly in the face of one of the reasons this while thing was happening. The point of the bridge academy was to get reserve officers trained up to the equivalent of a full-time officer and to certify them to POST standards. POST was then supposed to be transferrable not only within the state but with other POST states, at least that's what was told to me while I was in the reserve academy. But, it seems now that the powers that be may have other plans and may screw an entire pool of candidates.


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## HuskyH-2

kpf94 said:


> I have also heard this within my department, but it would seem to fly in the face of one of the reasons this while thing was happening. The point of the bridge academy was to get reserve officers trained up to the equivalent of a full-time officer and to certify them to POST standards. POST was then supposed to be transferrable not only within the state but with other POST states, at least that's what was told to me while I was in the reserve academy. But, it seems now that the powers that be may have other plans and may screw an entire pool of candidates.


POST in MA was never about our training being transferable to other states or vice versa . 

It would allow us to participate in the national certification database, so decertified officers could not leave the state and work in another.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kpf94

HuskyH-2 said:


> POST in MA was never about our training being transferable to other states or vice versa .
> 
> It would allow us to participate in the national certification database, so decertified officers could not leave the state and work in another.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But within that database, can't you transfer into states that use the database and take their state law test and become a POST certified officer without attending another full-time academy?


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## HuskyH-2

kpf94 said:


> But within that database, can't you transfer into states that use the database and take their state law test and become a POST certified officer without attending another full-time academy?


Short answer is No, It’s a national decertification list. You got in trouble for “xyz” in MA so now, you can’t work here and we’re uploading to the database so you won’t be able to work anywhere else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Foxy85

Does anyone have anything outside of rumors? Why is this state so screwy when it comes to things like this? 😆


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## PBC FL Cop

As of now, MPTC POST will consist of one certification; Massachusetts Certified Law Enforcement Officer. Part-time v Full-time certifications will not be differentiated, rather, one is either POST certified _*or*_ one is not POST certified. Chiefs, Sheriff's, and Campus Chiefs have the discretion as to whether or not they will only hire officers with a full-time academy certification rather than accepting the bridge academy, however, that does not negate one's POST certification even if this was accomplished through completion of the reserve intermittent course coupled with a bridge academy. 

Not allowing an officer to leave one's agency for another agency, once they are POST certified, would be contrary to the POST certification methodology. There are law enforcement executives that would *like* to see this in place to reduce their turnover, however, it has not been discussed formally in any meetings I have attended. 

Other states have their own POST/Criminal Justice Training standards, MPTC cannot dictate which states can and cannot accept Massachusetts' training.


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## PG1911

Treehouse413 said:


> I heard yesterday they the powers to be may have it set if you take the bridge academy it’s only good for your current department and if you were to leave for another you’d have to attend the full MPTC.


“Let’s do a bridge academy so that every officer in the state is on equal footing in training. Then they won’t need to go through all the hassle of doing a new academy everywhere they go.” 

“Are you crazy?? This is Massachusetts! Get the fuck out of here with that simple efficient solution bullshit!”

I swear, these people could fall in a pile of tits and come out sucking their thumbs. Why can’t these people tell the good idea fairy to shut the fuck up once in awhile??


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## Foxy85

🦗 🦗 🦗


----------



## NEPS

Glock48 said:


> The only difference between the SPMA/SSPO classes was that they were provided with a Clery and Title IX curriculum which is roughly only 2 days of classroom.
> 
> 18 weeks and 800 hours of pain to be locked and chained to campus policing. Ouch. Thank God for police reform.


I don't believe this is true anymore. There is now only one standard as far as POST is concerned: full-time officer. Whether trained by the Colonel's standard or MPTC's standard, they are supposed to be equivalent and acceptable to POST.


----------



## Oliverollie07

After watching today’s committee meeting, I’m even more confused. So reserve officers have to have 5 years experience plus 2400 hours within those 5 years (480 hr per year) to be eligible for the bridge academy? Is this what they are saying?
I mean, there are reserve part time officers that have more than 10+ years experience n way more than 2400 hrs in total (but not 480hrs per year) as that’s just the way shifts are in some small town departments, and so they don’t qualify for bridge? Or am I getting it wrong?


----------



## Foxy85

I think if you have the 2400 hours, you’ll be good. If you have more one year and less the others…. As long as it averages out.
Based on my half a*s math skills, sounds to be about one shift per week on average.

Did anything else come out of this meeting? Do those hours have to be “shift work” . . . Does working a detail count towards hours worked at your PD?

I know plenty of guys who log tons of hours through details only 😆

*Disclaimer - this is the first I’m hearing of the idea of an hour requirement kicked around. I’ll inquire some more tomorrow.


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## Oliverollie07

Only patrol cruise work counts. Details do not count. PAT test will be a must. 


Foxy85 said:


> I think if you have the 2400 hours, you’ll be good. If you have more one year and less the others…. As long as it averages out.
> Based on my half a*s math skills, sounds to be about one shift per week on average.
> 
> Did anything else come out of this meeting? Do those hours have to be “shift work” . . . Does working a detail count towards hours worked at your PD?
> 
> I know plenty of guys who log tons of hours through details only 😆
> 
> *Disclaimer - this is the first I’m hearing of the idea of an hour requirement kicked around. I’ll inquire some more tomorrow.


----------



## j809

Whatever happened to the discussion that the bridge academy will only be good for the department that sends you. If you leave you’ll have to attend a FT academy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Foxy85

Oliverollie07 said:


> Only patrol cruise work counts. Details do not count. PAT test will be a must.


PAT test, as in cooper or PAT test as in obstacle course?

…seems like a ploy to still eliminate all PTers.

Older guys with the hours requirement may n it be in peek physical condition so they are out.

Younger kids in shape with more recent training and experience won’t have the needed hours, so they are out.

For those few that do get in, PDs will choose not to honor the training for FT positions, as it was sub par in their opinion. So they too are out or relegated to remaining part - time at their current PD.

Whats the point in all of this at this rate?


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> PAT test, as in cooper or PAT test as in obstacle course?
> 
> …seems like a ploy to still eliminate all PTers.
> 
> Older guys with the hours requirement may n it be in peek physical condition so they are out.
> 
> Younger kids in shape with more recent training and experience won’t have the needed hours, so they are out.
> 
> For those few that do get in, PDs will choose not to honor the training for FT positions, as it was sub par in their opinion. So they too are out or relegated to remaining part - time at their current PD.
> 
> Whats the point in all of this at this rate?


PAT as in the obstacle course. U can watch it here





no idea. It’s ridiculous. I don’t think a lot of them understand or care about anyone who was not FT academy trained. There were a couple who raised concerns at the meeting but some said something along the line of, we set the standards n we have to make sure that these officers are on par with the full time officers.
But honestly, no matter what they do, there’s just not enough time to train anyone in this short amount of time to be exactly like the full time academy trained officers.
also, having a PAT test with no different time limits for older age officers seem unreasonable. Physical ability of a 50 year old and a 23 year old is vastly different, they just throw out “oh it’s easy, everyone can do it” and brushed it off.
And they are thinking of putting it on the first week of the training! Which is also very unfair. There’s no time to get prepared for it.
I don’t know, I just feel sorry for everyone who has to go through this. Especially, older officers, they will have no choice but to leave after more than a decade or more in the field.


----------



## Oliverollie07

j809 said:


> Whatever happened to the discussion that the bridge academy will only be good for the department that sends you. If you leave you’ll have to attend a FT academy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Some chiefs did talk about it but some disagreed. So I don’t know if they have come into conclusion for that yet.


----------



## Oliverollie07

And I think the time limit for PAT is around 130-160 seconds to finish the entire test. But I am only 80% sure, don’t quote me.


----------



## j809

I also heard that if you don’t get your bridge done by July 1 2022 you have to attend the FT academy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Oliverollie07

j809 said:


> I also heard that if you don’t get your bridge done by July 1 2022 you have to attend the FT academy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


basically if you don’t get it done by the time period for your last name, either FT academy or u can’t work as a cop. (So like A-H last name would be starting early Oct of 21 n must finish by June 22)


----------



## Foxy85

A birdie told me that the EVOC course is booked for the next couple of years. Not sure if that’s true or not.

and who supplies the cruisers for this? Some PDs have a bunch of PTers and limited resources to be sending cars out to get beaten up.


----------



## j809

Oliverollie07 said:


> basically if you don’t get it done by the time period for your last name, either FT academy or u can’t work as a cop. (So like A-H last name would be starting early Oct of 21 n must finish by June 22)


Exactly what I heard was talked about at central mass chiefs meeting 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bloodhound

Foxy85 said:


> A birdie told me that the EVOC course is booked for the next couple of years. Not sure if that’s true or not.
> 
> and who supplies the cruisers for this? Some PDs have a bunch of PTers and limited resources to be sending cars out to get beaten up.


MPTC is desperate for EVOC instructors, so that makes sense.


----------



## PBC FL Cop

Sadly, no one knows exactly how this is all going to pan out over the next year as there are as many opinions as there are choices. A couple instances have arisen that have thrown a monkey wrench into the works, therefore, a few more issues have to be worked out before things are able to move forward. This is to be expected when bureaucrats come up with solutions and then attempt to find a problem.


----------



## Bloodhound

PBC FL Cop said:


> Sadly, no one knows exactly how this is all going to pan out over the next year as there are as many opinions as there are choices. A couple instances have arisen that have thrown a monkey wrench into the works, therefore, a few more issues have to be worked out before things are able to move forward. This is to be expected when bureaucrats come up with solutions and then attempt to find a problem.


It's almost as if this was all hastily done with no input from those it affects


----------



## PBC FL Cop

Bloodhound said:


> It's almost as if this was all hastily done with no input from those it affects


LOL, almost as if...


----------



## Foxy85

Are the MPTC zoom meetings recorded and available to view? Or is it something you have to be present for?


----------



## AUXCAPT

MPTC Special Meeting on Bridge Academy 9/2/21 -2PM










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## mpd61

__





Special Meeting of the MPTC Committee







www.mass.gov





Get the Popcorn ready!!!!!


----------



## mpd61

j809 said:


> I also heard that if you don’t get your bridge done by July 1 2022 you have to attend the FT academy.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why?
So *everybody* now has a hair under 10 months to attend an academy that hasn't even been established yet. Sounds reasonable to me💩


----------



## Foxy85

mpd61 said:


> Why?
> So *everybody* now has a hair under 10 months to attend an academy that hasn't even been established yet. Sounds reasonable to me💩


It’s broken up by last name.

A-H is 7/1/20202 . . . I think (hope?) they will take in to consideration that the first wave will have less than a year and try to accommodate the first group as best they can.


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## Foxy85

Meeting is full - anyone listening in, and or have alternative ways to listen in?


----------



## HampdenCounty50

Someone open up a Google Meeting and point your phone at the zoom meeting haha


----------



## Foxy85

It’s a public meeting but only if you’re lucky enough to be in the first 300 callers 😆


----------



## EJS12213

Foxy85 said:


> Meeting is full - anyone listening in, and or have alternative ways to listen in?


It is being recorded so hopefully it gets posted soon after.


----------



## mpd61

*This will start the ball rolling again.







.........................*


----------



## Foxy85

Does the state audit payroll to check number of hour or does your chief just sign off saying you’ve met the prerequisite number?
Not that I expect any chiefs to fudge numbers, just wondering. We have a few guys that may be close or just short..


----------



## Foxy85

if you’re deemed exempt? Do you have to apply for exemption each time you apply for a different department, or once you have it, you’re good?


----------



## RodneyFarva

Foxy85 said:


> Does the state audit payroll to check number of hour or does your chief just sign off saying you’ve met the prerequisite number?
> Not that I expect any chiefs to fudge numbers, just wondering. We have a few guys that may be close or just short..


I caught some of the meeting and yes the state will audit hours worked.


----------



## 12birdz

Anyone hear anything about what will be in the bridge academy? We have all heard a lot of rumors but any solid info come out of that meeting?


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## Foxy85

Do you need 5 years on, averaging 480 hours.

morning can you have the 2400 + hours but less years on?


----------



## AUXCAPT

Here is a link to the materials presented









MPTC Bridge Academy Meeting 9-2-21


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mpd61

It's pretty clear for the most part. Notice it went into effect just over two weeks ago!?
Read it, understand it, accept it, and plan accordingly.


----------



## Foxy85

mpd61 said:


> It's pretty clear for the most part. Notice it went into effect just over two weeks ago!?
> Read it, understand it, accept it, and plan accordingly.


 So if I’m interpreting the slides correctly, you can still attend the bridge program without the required years or hours, but must complete the required hours / years before you can go full time or get a permanent exemption?


----------



## EJS12213

Foxy85 said:


> Do you need 5 years on, averaging 480 hours.
> 
> morning can you have the 2400 + hours but less years on?


I believe they said it comes down to the hours them self's. You don't need 480 hours each year, but 480 hours equal a year. So If you worked 240 hours in 2019 and then 240 hours in 2020 that would actually only equal one year worked. Also hours working details do not count at all. So if all you do is details for a department you do not even qualify for the bridge.


----------



## j809

So I’m curious what happens to full time campus police officers that received waivers from the MSP. They clearly have the hours because they work full time but never attended an sspo or full time academy. If they have a reserve academy coupled with a college degree and received an sspo waiver what happens to them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## EJS12213

Foxy85 said:


> So if I’m interpreting the slides correctly, you can still attend the bridge program without the required years or hours, but must complete the required hours / years before you can go full time or get a permanent exemption?


I believe so as long as you do more than just details as they do not count towards the hours. It must be hours worked doing specific police duties like patrol. If you have the hours that equal up to the five years then you can work full time without attending the fulltime academy. Less than the five years of hours you can continue to work only part time until you meet the hours before the deadline which is not 100% set yet. But if you do not meet the hours before the deadline you will be required to attend the fulltime academy just to work part time.


----------



## HampdenCounty50

Foxy85 said:


> So if I’m interpreting the slides correctly, you can still attend the bridge program without the required years or hours, but must complete the required hours / years before you can go full time or get a permanent exemption?


Correct


----------



## HampdenCounty50

j809 said:


> So I’m curious what happens to full time campus police officers that received waivers from the MSP. They clearly have the hours because they work full time but never attended an sspo or full time academy. If they have a reserve academy coupled with a college degree and received an sspo waiver what happens to them?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They would have to attend the bridge academy and fall under the same rules as reserves. The only exception are those who went to a MA State Police academy. Even a SSPO that went to a full time academy that wasn't run by MSP still needs to attend the bridge academy.


----------



## HampdenCounty50

EJS12213 said:


> I believe so as long as you do more than just details as they do not count towards the hours. It must be hours worked doing specific police duties like patrol. If you have the hours that equal up to the five years then you can work full time without attending the fulltime academy. Less than the five years of hours you can continue to work only part time until you meet the hours before the deadline which is not 100% set yet. But if you do not meet the hours before the deadline you will be required to attend the fulltime academy just to work part time.


Correct


----------



## cheezsta

This is so fucked, so those of us that attended full time academies out of state and took the test were granted SSPO and have worked like myself for 15+ years have to attend the Bridge lol. This all makes no sense to me, so I was good enough then but not good enough now, I guess it is what it is 🤷🏽‍♂️


----------



## Dpty1sp

cheezsta said:


> This is so fucked, so those of us that attended full time academies out of state and took the test were granted SSPO and have worked like myself for 15+ years have to attend the Bridge lol. This all makes no sense to me, so I was good enough then but not good enough now, I guess it is what it is 🤷🏽‍♂️
> [/QUOTE
> 
> 
> And take a Pat which you have to now pass. Mptc was supposed to get fixed or eliminated with this bull making everything a standard. Appears they just want to stick the hands in a muddy everything you lol.


----------



## Dpty1sp

And take a Pat which you have to now pass. Mptc was supposed to get fixed or eliminated with this bill making everything a standard. Appears they just want to stick their hands in and muddy everything up lol.


----------



## Foxy85

The PAT went from suggested cooper standards in past meetings to simply the standard MPTC obstacle course. I wouldn’t stress it too much. From what I understand it’s pretty straight forward. 2:43 or something crazy to complete it. Prob be able to stop for a snack half way through it if you want.


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## j809

I wouldn’t say it’s that easy where you can show up and pass it if you’re not physically fit. I’ve seen many people fail it. You have to move pretty quick and do many things, think it’s four laps around the gym. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HampdenCounty50

This is the MA PAT.





Here is the schedule and physical form.





Schedule Physical Ability Test (PAT) for Fire and Police Departments







www.mass.gov


----------



## Foxy85

j809 said:


> I wouldn’t say it’s that easy where you can show up and pass it if you’re not physically fit. I’ve seen many people fail it. You have to move pretty quick and do many things, think it’s four laps around the gym.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i May have been a little too tongue in cheek, but my point is, so long as you’re not grossly over weight or don’t have any lingering health issues (knees, back, etc), a good pace around the gym isn’t that hard.


----------



## 12birdz

Foxy85 said:


> i May have been a little too tongue in cheek, but my point is, so long as you’re not grossly over weight or don’t have any lingering health issues (knees, back, etc), a good pace around the gym isn’t that hard.


Then comes the issue of people like me who suffered on the job injuries that forced them to take the SSPO route. Good chance I get forced out because damage that car did to my knees.


----------



## cheezsta

I’m in decent shape (slightly overweight) lol. I think I can pass it I workout 3-4x a week but still this is insane I’ve had 3 on the job injuries over a 20 yr career. I now have to pass a physical and take a pat and attend classes for a job I’ve been doing for the past 15 yrs it seems like a huge joke but it’s not. Wonder if there will be any lawsuits that could possibly come from all this from the Leo side and the criminal side looking to get charges dropped.


----------



## Dpty1sp

It’s interesting what happens to these permanent exemptions. A lot is being out on SSPO’s however, the MPTC grants exemptions too and aren’t they the same standards as the state police certification unit? So what happens to those guys/gals?


----------



## HampdenCounty50

Dpty1sp said:


> It’s interesting what happens to these permanent exemptions. A lot is being out on SSPO’s however, the MPTC grants exemptions too and aren’t they the same standards as the state police certification unit? So what happens to those guys/gals?


The only exception for SSPOs right now is if you went to a MSP run academy and were trained by MSP you don't need to bridge.


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## HampdenCounty50

Here is the latest zoom meeting recording.









Bridge Academy Proposal 9321.mp4


Shared with Dropbox




www.dropbox.com


----------



## Foxy85

HampdenCounty50 said:


> Here is the latest zoom meeting recording.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bridge Academy Proposal 9321.mp4
> 
> 
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.dropbox.com


 Lots of good info here and the Q&A helped to clarify a lot of the “what if” type questions I’ve been hearing get kicked around.


----------



## Foxy85

_duplicate post_


----------



## KPD54

12birdz said:


> Then comes the issue of people like me who suffered on the job injuries that forced them to take the SSPO route. Good chance I get forced out because damage that car did to my knees.


I dont know about you guys, but if youre injured to the degree that you couldn't pass a PT test even if you were in shape, I think you should retire. It becomes a liability to other officers in the event that something goes south.


----------



## Foxy85

KPD54 said:


> I dont know about you guys, but if youre injured to the degree that you couldn't pass a PT test even if you were in shape, I think you should retire. It becomes a liability to other officers in the event that something goes south.


Ideally speaking this is true but it’s not reality. You have guys working on the job everywhere with bad knees, backs, muscle spasms, etc etc.

Sure everyone should look like you peeled them out of a magazine, but that’s just not the way it goes. Full time or part time. Tons of guys dealing with discomfort and pain on a daily basis. Still great cops at the end of the day.


----------



## cheezsta

KPD54 said:


> I dont know about you guys, but if youre injured to the degree that you couldn't pass a PT test even if you were in shape, I think you should retire. It becomes a liability to other officers in the event that something goes south.


 Wow!!!! While I do you understand where you are coming from I can’t agree 100% with you. How about those guys that work in the station as desk officers or admin officers like a detail officer or booking guys. How about those folks that have worked mid shifts for most of their careers and now are overweight and have medical issues but just don’t have enough time to retire. It’s not as simple as you think. People have families and need to provide its not that simple to just retire and walk away and do something else.


----------



## HampdenCounty50

KPD54 said:


> I dont know about you guys, but if youre injured to the degree that you couldn't pass a PT test even if you were in shape, I think you should retire. It becomes a liability to other officers in the event that something goes south.


If that is the case, that wouldn't be on the officer to retire. If the injuries and the reason they can't pass a PT test is due to the job, it would be up the PD administration to medically retire such officer with benefits.


----------



## RodneyFarva

Not only that but going out on a 72% sounds nice, but I think it is 72% of you current pay step. Think about the trooper that was shot in the hand down on the cape a little while back. He was still on probation, so he get 72% of very little.


----------



## mpd61

RodneyFarva said:


> Not only that but going out on a 72% sounds nice, but I think it is 72% of you current pay step. Think about the trooper that was shot in the hand down on the cape a little while back. He was still on probation, so he get 72% of very little.


Well......
As of 2020, the starting salary for State Troopers is $69,542. So any trooper who goes out on 72% medical will be taking home about $50K untaxed. That isn't very little. Especially if you realize 100% Disabled Veteran is about $5K less.....Just saying


----------



## RodneyFarva

But they stay on that step if they are out on a 72, right? Or does it further increase as time goes on?


----------



## j809

RodneyFarva said:


> But they stay on that step if they are out on a 72, right? Or does it further increase as time goes on?


It stays at that. It only goes up like a 2 percent out of the 3 percent it’s horrible. Percent out of a percent it’s like a penny.


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## FAPD

j809 said:


> It stays at that. It only goes up like a 2 percent out of the 3 percent it’s horrible. Percent out of a percent it’s like a penny.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bunch of whining babies


----------



## 12birdz

Anyone have the link to the Q&A website they talked about at the end of the meeting?


----------



## mpd61

12birdz said:


> Anyone have the link to the Q&A website they talked about at the end of the meeting?


It was basically the end of the meeting from about time 1:20 something onward (roughly). Director and Chief Hicks were discussing emailed questions out loud.


----------



## 12birdz

mpd61 said:


> It was basically the end of the meeting from about time 1:20 something onward (roughly). Director and Chief Hicks were discussing emailed questions out loud.


O I meant in that section of the video they mentioned posting answers to the questions they discussed and ones they didn’t have time to talk about at the meeting. Maybe I was mistaken though


----------



## FAPD

During the Q&A phase it seems Specials are still going to be OK for traffic, it'll be up to the towns. Auxiliaries are going to be limited to "town events" and Traffic. They were pretty specific that those folks will have no law enforcement authority or duties going forward. I think there are only a dozen aux departments left around anyway and only Framingham was doing patrol stuff right?


----------



## Foxy85

Liability and the unknown will force towns to probably eliminate specials / Auxies if I had to guess.

Outside of that you’re essentially creating a municipal security outfit? Or town employed traffic guys (eg flaggers) . . . Not sure what that would look like.


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## FAPD

Foxy85 said:


> Outside of that you’re essentially creating a municipal security outfit? Or town employed traffic guys (eg flaggers) . . . *Not sure what that would look like*.


*THIS:







*


----------



## EUPD377

Seems like calling people who don’t posses police powers “police”, whether it be “special police” or “auxiliary police” seems to be exactly the sort of thing that this reform system should be seeking to eliminate. If you’re not a cop and don’t have cop powers, you shouldn’t be called “police”.

Down here where I work, we have reserves and auxiliary police, but they are all fully certified officers. Pretty much all of them are people who either retired from law enforcement or left for some other reason, but still stay on in a reserve capacity to make some side money working details and special events. Some departments also have non-sworn volunteers who work at special events or do “patrol” by driving around and calling in anything suspicious. However, they’re called something like “safety watch” or “community volunteers” NOT “police”.


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## AUXCAPT

EUPD377 said:


> Seems like calling people who don’t posses police powers “police”, whether it be “special police” or “auxiliary police” seems to be exactly the sort of thing that this reform system should be seeking to eliminate. If you’re not a cop and don’t have cop powers, you shouldn’t be called “police”.
> 
> Down here where I work, we have reserves and auxiliary police, but they are all fully certified officers. Pretty much all of them are people who either retired from law enforcement or left for some other reason, but still stay on in a reserve capacity to make some side money working details and special events. Some departments also have non-sworn volunteers who work at special events or do “patrol” by driving around and calling in anything suspicious. However, they’re called something like “safety watch” or “community volunteers” NOT “police”.


Problem in MA is we have a smorgasbord of titles, roles and responsibilities. For example we have auxiliary (volunteer) officers who, pre-police reform bill, have the requirements (reserve academy, and annual in-service) to work part-time and get paid, and we have some auxiliary officers with no formal training. What we need to focus on is the training, not the title. 

Per the reform bill those with the reserve academy training (same curriculum as full time for the classes included - the classes that the same MPTC determined were needed to obtain part-time status) needed “additional training” to remain certified. The problem, IMHO, is not the 200 hours of “additional training” AKA “Bridge Academy” - but the non legislated criterial (Physical, PAT and Hours) that the MPTC is working on implementing- that will limit the number of experienced part-time officers who will be required to return to square one, even though they completed much of the materials in the full-time academy. 

IMHO this is a coordinated discriminatory attack on a class of employees in the commonwealth- volunteer, part-time and full-time reserve trained SSPO’s. Total number impacted are more than 3,000, some of which make their entire living working as police officers. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## HuskyH-2

MPTC was given the authority to establish the curriculum of the bridge not the qualifications to attend. They are over stepping to push their agenda. We’ll see how it plays out 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FAPD

AUXCAPT said:


> Problem in MA is we have a smorgasbord of titles, roles and responsibilities. For example we have auxiliary (volunteer) officers who, pre-police reform bill, have the requirements (reserve academy, and annual in-service) to work part-time and get paid, and we have some auxiliary officers with no formal training. What we need to focus on is the training, not the title.
> 
> Per the reform bill those with the reserve academy training (same curriculum as full time for the classes included - the classes that the same MPTC determined were needed to obtain part-time status) needed “additional training” to remain certified. The problem, IMHO, is not the 200 hours of “additional training” AKA “Bridge Academy” - but the non legislated criterial (Physical, PAT and Hours) that the MPTC is working on implementing- that will limit the number of experienced part-time officers who will be required to return to square one, even though they completed much of the materials in the full-time academy.
> 
> IMHO this is a coordinated discriminatory attack on a class of employees in the commonwealth- volunteer, part-time and full-time reserve trained SSPO’s. Total number impacted are more than 3,000, some of which make their entire living working as police officers.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Problem is you can't just shift focus away from title, when many of the folks in those titles have no sworn status and/or individual arrest authority within those titles. There are no easy answers and not everyone is going to be able to meet certain criteria whether it be hours, actual duties, training or all three. 
The Physical exam and PAT are by themselves, pretty basic. They are not requiring 40 and 55 year old veterans to go run 1.5 timed miles or meet Cooper standards for push ups, sit ups, etc......
Finally, most Mass Chiefs and rank and file officers see the extremely rare and dying aux departments as "hobby cops" and not worth focusing on in this battle. The beginning of the end was over two decades ago when the premier Quincy Auxiliary was exterminated overnight by the new Chief. He pioneered the dirty word "liability" when ignoring the cries of City administrators and the citizens to save the program. The SSPO's who are already FT, but not New Braintree grads,won't have much much to worry about except attending Bridge Academy, which they DO qualify to attend. Yes it's going to hurt some folks, and we may not agree with a lot of how it's being done, but it's the shit sandwich our great legislators passed.


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## j809

I believe part time firefighters have to attend an academy that is the same amount of hours as the full time academy, firefighter 1 and 2. So if you carry a gun then you should have the same level l of training as a full timer , especially if you do the same job. That will not happen as many chiefs, all in western mass, complained and will probably get their way. You are correct that mptc decides on the curriculum but POST must ultimately approve it. That’s the final decision so we shall see what will happen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## PG1911

EUPD377 said:


> Seems like calling people who don’t posses police powers “police”, whether it be “special police” or “auxiliary police” seems to be exactly the sort of thing that this reform system should be seeking to eliminate. If you’re not a cop and don’t have cop powers, you shouldn’t be called “police”.
> 
> Down here where I work, we have reserves and auxiliary police, but they are all fully certified officers. Pretty much all of them are people who either retired from law enforcement or left for some other reason, but still stay on in a reserve capacity to make some side money working details and special events. Some departments also have non-sworn volunteers who work at special events or do “patrol” by driving around and calling in anything suspicious. However, they’re called something like “safety watch” or “community volunteers” NOT “police”.


I think it's appropriate to call unsworn auxiliary officers "police". Usually, though they're only doing traffic direction, but some would call that "policing" traffic. It's one thing to call that division of a PD "auxiliary police" and another for an auxiliary officer referring to himself as a cop. All the aux guys here in CT that I know never say they're police officers; they just say they do traffic work with the auxiliary police.


----------



## Foxy85

FAPD said:


> Problem is you can't just shift focus away from title, when many of the folks in those titles have no sworn status and/or individual arrest authority within those titles. There are no easy answers and not everyone is going to be able to meet certain criteria whether it be hours, actual duties, training or all three.
> The Physical exam and PAT are by themselves, pretty basic. They are not requiring 40 and 55 year old veterans to go run 1.5 timed miles or meet Cooper standards for push ups, sit ups, etc......
> Finally, most Mass Chiefs and rank and file officers see the extremely rare and dying aux departments as "hobby cops" and not worth focusing on in this battle. The beginning of the end was over two decades ago when the premier Quincy Auxiliary was exterminated overnight by the new Chief. He pioneered the dirty word "liability" when ignoring the cries of City administrators and the citizens to save the program. *The SSPO's who are already FT, but not New Braintree grads,won't have much much to worry about except attending Bridge Academy, which they DO qualify to attend. *Yes it's going to hurt some folks, and we may not agree with a lot of how it's being done, but it's the shit sandwich our great legislators passed.


So I sincerely hope so, but my understanding was that if someone is working under SSPO waiver with the reserve academy and a degree that they will have to attend some sort of full time academy. That they cannot bridge?


----------



## HuskyH-2

Foxy85 said:


> So I sincerely hope so, but my understanding was that if someone is working under SSPO waiver with the reserve academy and a degree that they will have to attend some sort of full time academy. That they cannot bridge?


If you have a degree and reserve academy you aren’t on a waiver. Temporary waiver is for if your enrolled in an MPTC/SSPO academy or enrolled in a college degree program, but haven’t yet finished. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Kilvinsky

What's so unclear about all of this? It seems pretty clear to me that NOTHING is clear and probably won't be for a decade or two. It's like the big MERGE that happened at the state level in 1992, it was as smooth as sand paper for a long time and everyone got along and there were NO glitches beyond everything being screwed up. By 2020, it's all good?

Give it time and before you know it, Almost all of us will be retired and have no need to give a shit.


----------



## j809

It will be very clear this month because in October they have to start the bridge. They are mandated under the legislative act and have no choice 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Oliverollie07

Regarding the PAT test, I still think it’s unfair for older officers. the unfair point is for people who are 50 and above, who has at least over 15 years of experiences. If it’s that important for officers over 50 to pass the PAT test because they have to make sure they can do the physical aspect of the job, shouldn’t there be a PAT for FT certified officers who are also over 50 to do it? FT officers also graduated the academy 20-25 years ago.


----------



## Treehouse413

Oliverollie07 said:


> Regarding the PAT test, I still think it’s unfair for older officers. the unfair point is for people who are 50 and above, who has at least over 15 years of experiences. If it’s that important for officers over 50 to pass the PAT test because they have to make sure they can do the physical aspect of the job, shouldn’t there be a PAT for FT certified officers who are also over 50 to do it? FT officers also graduated the academy 20-25 years ago.


FYI every officer in the commonwealth is suppose to take the PAT annually but it hasn’t been enforced .


----------



## Oliverollie07

Treehouse413 said:


> FYI every officer in the commonwealth is suppose to take the PAT annually but it hasn’t been enforced .


interesting, never knew that.


----------



## AUXCAPT

Treehouse413 said:


> FYI every officer in the commonwealth is suppose to take the PAT annually but it hasn’t been enforced .


Never heard that. From everything I read the Physical and PAT are for new hires. Making this a criteria for keeping employment for the bridge seems discriminatory, as those of us who have been performing the job for years have already proven our abilities. Funny in the video the guys with the Grey hair are watching and timing the young recruits. I don’t see them demonstrating- LOL. 







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Oliverollie07

AUXCAPT said:


> Never heard that. From everything I read the Physical and PAT are for new hires. Making this a criteria for keeping employment for the bridge seems discriminatory, as those of us who have been performing the job for years have already proven our abilities. Funny in the video the guys with the Grey hair are watching and timing the young recruits. I don’t see them demonstrating- LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Agree. How is it justified to compare the physical ability of a 28 year old to a 50 year old? And with the same time limit (which is around 160 seconds) and requirements.


----------



## Foxy85

HuskyH-2 said:


> If you have a degree and reserve academy you aren’t on a waiver. Temporary waiver is for if your enrolled in an MPTC/SSPO academy or enrolled in a college degree program, but haven’t yet finished.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk











I think campus / Hospital PD’s with guys who are working FT under the reserve academy are gonna be screwed over too and forced to attend a FT academy. That was my understanding. I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## HuskyH-2

Foxy85 said:


> View attachment 10680
> 
> I think campus / Hospital PD’s with guys who are working FT under the reserve academy are gonna be screwed over too and forced to attend a FT academy. That was my understanding. I hope I’m wrong.


Your jumping a square, that’s for those with less than the 5 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cheezsta

I thinks it’s insane that some of us that have full time out of state academies and have been working under SSPO for the last 10+ years, now in our late 40’s early 50’s have to pass the PAT test to keep our jobs and are held to the same standards as a 25 year old. How ironic My son just got a card in his early 20’s and will hopefully be taking the pat test in the next couple months and dad in his late 40’s will be probably taking it with him and held to the same standard lol. Got to love this state.


----------



## j809

cheezsta said:


> I thinks it’s insane that some of us that have full time out of state academies and have been working under SSPO for the last 10+ years, now in our late 40’s early 50’s have to pass the PAT test to keep our jobs and are held to the same standards as a 25 year old. How ironic My son just got a card in his early 20’s and will hopefully be taking the pat test in the next couple months and dad in his late 40’s will be probably taking it with him and held to the same standard lol. Got to love this state.


If you have an sspo academy you don’t have to.


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## cheezsta

j809 said:


> If you have an sspo academy you don’t have to.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don’t have an SSPO academy I have an academy from one of the southern states


----------



## Oliverollie07

Is anyone listening in to the meeting? Lol I’m even more confused now.


----------



## Oliverollie07

cheezsta said:


> I thinks it’s insane that some of us that have full time out of state academies and have been working under SSPO for the last 10+ years, now in our late 40’s early 50’s have to pass the PAT test to keep our jobs and are held to the same standards as a 25 year old. How ironic My son just got a card in his early 20’s and will hopefully be taking the pat test in the next couple months and dad in his late 40’s will be probably taking it with him and held to the same standard lol. Got to love this state.


Well, now they are saying as long as you work full time as an SSPO regardless of your prior experience or hours, you just have to go to the bridge academy. So guys who are just hired now, does not have to go to the full time academy anymore. But the older guys who has been on the job for years has to go to the bridge academy and do the PAT test.

so they basically screwed everyone who’s older and more experienced. Someone at the meeting even mentioned, 1/3 of the people are going to quit just because of the PAT test. Nobody responded to it. Nobody cares.


----------



## FAPD

DA LINK! Where's the damn link!?!?!?


----------



## Oliverollie07

FAPD said:


> DA LINK! Where's the damn link!?!?!?


It’s over now. Just search MPTC meeting on google. The zoom meeting links are on the mass gov website


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## Oliverollie07

Also, that’s only for SSPOs that are working full time. If you are a reserve police officer, you will not be able to do that even if you may be working full time hrs or close to it. You will have to go to the full time academy if you don’t have the hours equivalent to 5 years.
The video did not have the best sound quality. But I heard something like campus police cops who are working full time now will be given all sorts of priorities in the bridge academy. (Like starting online courses earlier than your last name)

oh and you have 2 chances with the PAT test. If you fail both times, you are all done.
Fellas, when was the last time you climbed over a 4ft wall and go through a window? Lol


----------



## AUXCAPT

View attachment MPTC Bridge Academy Questions and Answers September 2021 Final.pdf

Here is what the MPTC sent out this afternoon. (Not sure if this worked - please let me know if you can get to the file)


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## CCCSD

Oliverollie07 said:


> Also, that’s only for SSPOs that are working full time. If you are a reserve police officer, you will not be able to do that even if you may be working full time hrs or close to it. You will have to go to the full time academy if you don’t have the hours equivalent to 5 years.
> The video did not have the best sound quality. But I heard something like campus police cops who are working full time now will be given all sorts of priorities in the bridge academy. (Like starting online courses earlier than your last name)
> 
> oh and you have 2 chances with the PAT test. If you fail both times, you are all done.
> Fellas, when was the last time you climbed over a 4ft wall and go through a window? Lol


Last week. She was HOT!


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## Foxy85

Oliverollie07 said:


> Also, that’s only for SSPOs that are working full time. If you are a reserve police officer, you will not be able to do that even if you may be working full time hrs or close to it. You will have to go to the full time academy if you don’t have the hours equivalent to 5 years.
> The video did not have the best sound quality. But I heard something like campus police cops who are working full time now will be given all sorts of priorities in the bridge academy. (Like starting online courses earlier than your last name)
> 
> oh and you have 2 chances with the PAT test. If you fail both times, you are all done.
> Fellas, when was the last time you climbed over a 4ft wall and go through a window? Lol


i didn’t see any reference as to limited tries at the PAT. Where was that from?


----------



## PBC FL Cop

*This is the latest from the MPTC in reference to POST and the requirements for the Bridge Academy...

MPTC Bridge Academy 2021–2024 Frequently Asked Questions September 17, 2021 

DEFINITIONS:* 

*Civilian Traffic Control:* A non-sworn member of a police department whose duties are restricted to traffic direction, control, road construction details, parades, other pre-planned events that only involve vehicular or pedestrian safety and other capacities as determined by the Chief of Police that are not performed by Sworn Officers. 
*Law Enforcement Agency:* a state, county, municipal or district law enforcement agency, including, but not limited to: 
▪ A city, town, or district Police department, [Local] 
▪ the office of environmental law enforcement, [Environmental Police] 
▪ the University of Massachusetts Police department, [UMass Police] 
▪ the department of the state Police, [MSP] 
▪ the Massachusetts Port Authority Police department, also known as the Port of Boston Authority Police department, and [Massport Police] 
▪ the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority Police [Transit]; 
▪ Sheriff’s Department in its performance of Police duties and functions; or 
▪ a public or private college, university, or other educational institution 
▪ or hospital Police department. [College/University/Hospital] Law Enforcement Officer or “officer:” 
▪ any officer of an agency, including the head of the agency; ▪ a special state Police officer appointed pursuant to section 58 or section 63 of chapter 22C; 
▪ a special sheriff appointed pursuant to section 4 of chapter 37 performing Police duties and functions; 
▪ a deputy sheriff appointed pursuant to section 3 of said chapter 37 performing Police duties and functions; 
▪ a Constable executing an arrest for any reason; or 
▪ any other special, reserve, or intermittent Police officer. 
*Police Detail:* 700 CMR 6.02 – any uniformed sworn law enforcement officer and any official marked police vehicle on a public works project. *A detail is a privately paid assignment. Accrued hours of police detail time can NOT be included in the 2,400 hours for exemption eligibility. The only time that can added to the 2,400 hours is assignments of shift in the role of a police officer on patrol. *Road Flagger*: 700 CMR 6.02 – an individual certified by MassDOT, or a MassDOT approved organization, to perform traffic control services on public roads. 
*Sworn Member:* A sworn member of the Department who is appointed as a Police Officer under M.G.L. Chapter 41, Section 98 or a Special Police Officer under M.G.L. Chapter 41, section 99. 

ARE SPECIAL STATE POLICE OFFICERS [SSPOS] WHO OBTAINED A WARRANT BY ATTENDING A TRAINING ACADEMY RUN BY THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE ACADEMY IN NEW BRAINTREE EXEMPT FROM THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, SSPOs who obtained their official warrant from the Colonel of the MSP by attending the Massachusetts State Police Academy held in New Braintree, MA are NOT required to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy based on successfully completing and passing the comprehensive training program offered by the Massachusetts State Police. 

ARE SSPOS WHO OBTAINED A WARRANT BY ATTENDING A TRAINING ACADEMY RUN BY THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE IN A LOCATION OTHER THAN NEW BRAINTREE ALSO EXEMPT FROM ATTENDING THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? No, only those SSPOs who attended the New Braintree training academy are exempt from attending the MPTC Bridge Academy. This is due to the fact that only the New Braintree site offered a comprehensive 707 hours of curriculum. ELIGIBILITY: All law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. 

WHAT YEAR AM I ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? The approved MPTC Bridge Academy shall commence on or about October 1, 2021 and run through June 30, 2024. Pursuant to Section 102(d) of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act, “[t]he certification of a law enforcement officer who has graduated from an academy or training program certified by the municipal police training committee or the training programs prescribed by said chapter 22C [MSP] who is certified as a result of this section and whose Last Names begin with: A to H, inclusive, shall expire 1 year after the effective date; Certification expires July 1, 2022 I to P, inclusive, shall expire 2 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2023 Q to Z, inclusive, shall expire 3 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2024 

WHAT IS THE TUITION FOR THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? There is no cost to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy; however, the officer is required to bring their own ammunition and issued firearm and the agency is required to supply a cruiser for the EVOC week including the cost of fuel (unless the agency can show a hardship). 

ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY: Sponsorship: Every individual must be sponsored by a law enforcement agency. Medical Screening: Every individual shall be required to submit an Initial-Hire Medical Standards Medical Examination Form signed by a medical doctor and dated within ninety (90) days of registration indicating the candidate is medically cleared to participate without limitations in the practical skills-based sessions including defensive tactics, emergency vehicle operation course, and firearms training. 

*Physical Ability Test (PAT):* Every individual shall successfully pass the Human Resource Division’s Physical Ability Test (PAT) within nine (9) months prior to the start date of the MPTC Bridge Academy. The cost to take the PAT test is $150.00. The PAT must be valid (unexpired) as of the start date of the MPTC Bridge Academy. For more information on the PAT test and how to schedule please go to Schedule Physical Ability Test (PAT) for Fire and Police Departments For additional questions please email [email protected]. Completed Agreement and Indemnification Form: Every individual shall complete a signed MPTC Agreement and Indemnification Form prior to the start of the MPTC Bridge Academy. 
*Health Insurance: *Every individual shall be required to provide proof of full medical coverage, which will remain in full force and effect through the entire MPTC Bridge Academy. 
*Firearms and Ammunition:* Every individual shall be required to bring their own issued firearm and ammunition and have a valid firearm’s License to Carry (LTC) or make arrangements for the transportation of a firearm and ammunition for the firearms range qualification course at the MPTC Bridge Academy. 
*Cruiser for one-week of Defensive Driving*: Every officer must have access to a police patrol vehicle for the week of training devoted to the Emergency Vehicular Operation Course [EVOC] also referred to as Defensive Driving. The MPTC will acquire twelve (12) police vehicles for use during the three (3) years of the MPTC Bridge Academy. These vehicles will be available at a specified EVOC driving course for any department that demonstrates a significant hardship in making a police vehicle available. The department will be responsible for the cost of fuel during the weeklong training. 

WHAT IF SOMEONE IS OUT ON MEDICAL OR MILITARY LEAVE THE YEAR THEY ARE REQUIRED TO BRIDGE? There will be exceptions made for those officers out on medical or military leave. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by-case”) basis. 

WHAT KIND OF ACCOMMODATION WILL BE GIVEN TO OFFICERS WHO ARE PREGNANT/BREASTFEEDING DURING THE TIME THEY ARE ASSIGNED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? There will be exceptions made for those officers who are pregnant or breastfeeding. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by case”) basis. 

HOW DO I ENROLL FOR THE BRIDGE ACADEMY AND SIGN UP FOR CLASSES? Enrollment for the MPTC Bridge Academy will be done through ACADIS. Once successfully enrolled in the academy, the online course modules will be loaded into the individuals ACADIS account. All Bridge Academy Defensive Tactics, EVOC and Firearms classes scheduled through the MPTC staff and available by dates and locations. Only MPTC Bridge Academy attendees will be allowed to enroll in these classes. 

CAN I STILL WORK WHILE I AM ENROLLED IN THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, as of July 1, 2021, all officers are effectively “certified” by POST and are eligible to work until the date their Certification expires and/or until they have successfully completed the MPTC Bridge Academy and, if applicable, have been granted an Exemption by the MPTC. 

WILL I AUTOMATICALLY BE CERTIFIED AS A FULLTIME OFFICER UPON SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE BRIDGE? No, an officer who has: 
▪ Successfully attended and completed the MPTC Bridge Academy; and 
▪ Has worked in the capacity of a law enforcement officer performing specific police duties and functions, including exercising the powers of arrests for 2,400 hours over a five (5) year period or other period where the aggregate number of experience hours accumulated is equal to or greater than 2,400 hours; and 
▪ Has successfully completed the mandated in-service training requirements for each of those preceding years. With the agency’s Chief Executive Officer’s authorization, is eligible to apply to the MPTC for an exemption which, if approved, would exempt the officer from attending the fulltime MPTC operated or approved Recruit Officer Class (“ROC”) 
Training Academy. Note: The official procedure for requesting an exemption for the Officer in question shall be initiated by the Chief Executive of the law enforcement agency that employs the Officer. 

OUR SPECIAL OFFICERS WILL NOT MAKE THE 2,400 HOURS REQUIREMENT. THE WAY I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS, EVEN IF THEY COMPLETE THE BRIDGE ACADEMY, THEY WILL HAVE TO ATTEND A FULL-TIME ROC BECAUSE THEY DID NOT MEET THE 2,400 HOURS? If the officer has not already met the 2,400-hour requirement prior to attending the MPTC Bridge Academy, they will have a time period (yet to be determined) to complete the 2,400-hour requirement after successfully attending and completing the MPTC Bridge Academy. The officer must also continue to complete the mandated MPTC in-service training requirements. 

SPECIAL STATE POLICE OFFICERS (SSPOS) COMPLETE THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE (MSP) ANNUAL IN-SERVICE AND NOT NECESSARILY MPTC ANNUAL IN-SERVICE. IF THEY DID SSPO IN-SERVICE BUT NOT MPTC IN-SERVICE DOES THIS DISQUALIFY THEM FOR THE BRIDGE? No, as long as the officer completed the required Massachusetts State Police annual in-service training for five consecutive years, that MPTC will consider the in-service training requirements met. 

IF WE DID NOT DO THE MANDATED IN-SERVICE TRAINING, CAN WE MAKE IT UP? No, the mandated in-service requirement cannot be made up. Special exceptions will be made for those officers who were not able to complete their in-service training due to a medical or military leave. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by case”) basis. 

WE USE SPECIAL POLICE OFFICERS FOR POLICE DETAILS ONLY. SINCE THEY WILL NOT MEET THE REQUIRED 2,400 HOURS, CAN WE NO LONGER USE THEM? Special Police Officers are considered Law Enforcement Officers by statute. As long as they have attended the Reserve Training Program, or in the case of retired Police Officers who have attended the fulltime academy and have been sworn in as Special Police Officers upon retirement, they can continue to work details until such time as their Certification expires provided, they continue to attend the required In-service training each year. Retired Officers presumably would have accumulated the requisite number of experience hours (>=2400 work hours). Part-time Reserve Officers or so-called “Specials” will need to accumulate the 2400 work hour total before (date to be determined) or they would be required to attend the MPTC Fulltime ROC Academy. 

WHAT IF A RESERVE OFFICER THAT IS REQUIRED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY IN THIS FIRST YEAR DUE TO A LAST NAME BEGINNING WITH THE LETTER A - H, OPTS NOT TO ATTEND THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY, ARE THEY DONE AS AN OFFICER IMMEDIATELY? No, they can continue to work through June 30, 2021. Pursuant to the passing of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act on December 31, 2020, “[a]ll law enforcement officers1 who have completed a reserve training program on or before the effective date of this section [July 1, 2021] shall be certified as of the effective date of this section. Prior to the expiration of that certification, the officer shall complete additional training as required by the Municipal Police Training Committee. A to H, inclusive, shall expire 1 year after the effective date; Certification expires July 1, 2022 I to P, inclusive, shall expire 2 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2023 Q to Z, inclusive, shall expire 3 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2024 

WHAT ABOUT RETIRED OFFICERS WORKING DETAILS? WILL THEY BE CERTIFIED? Special Police Officers are considered Law Enforcement Officers by statute. In the case of retired Police Officers who have attended the fulltime academy and have been sworn in as Special Police Officers upon retirement, they can continue to work details until such time as their Certification expires provided, they continue to attend the required In-service training each year. Retired Officers presumably would have accumulated the requisite number of experience hours (>=2400 work hours). 

WHERE WOULD A FULL TIME CAMPUS POLICE OFFICER (NON-MSP SSPO TRAINED) WHO ALSO WORKS AS A RESERVE FOR A MUNICIPAL DEPARTMENT FALL? WOULD THEY HAVE TO ATTEND ROC BECAUSE THEY ARE TECHNICALLY FULL TIME FOR AN SSPO AGENCY? As long as the officer attended an MPTC certified reserve training program, they are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. Presumably, they would also be able to meet the 2,400-hour work requirement based on their full-time campus work coupled with their part-time employment hours. If not, they would be required to attend the next available MPTC Fulltime ROC Academy. 1 See Massachusetts General Law Chapter 6E §1. 

WHAT ABOUT OFFICERS WITH NO IN-SERVICE AT ALL BUT HAVE THE WORK HOURS? An officer who has not completed the mandatory in-service training will have to complete five consecutive years of mandatory MPTC in-service training and have the requisite 2,400 hours of work prior to filing for an exemption. 

HOW ABOUT AN AUXILIARY POLICE OFFICER THAT ATTENDED A RESERVE ACADEMY AND A 56 HOUR FIREARMS TRAINING AND IN-SERVICE TRAINING, WILL THEY BE ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND A THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? All law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. 

THERE ARE SEVERAL PART-TIME OFFICERS IN BERKSHIRE COUNTY AND OTHER WESTERN MASS TOWNS WHO WORK FULLTIME HOURS BETWEEN MULTIPLE AGENCIES. DOES THE TIME BETWEEN ALL THE AGENCIES COUNT TOWARDS THE 2,400 HOURS? Yes, all hours between agencies can be accumulated to achieve the 2,400 hours; however, only one agency will be sponsoring the individual for purposes of the Bridge Academy enrollment. 

WE HAVE 20 AUXILIARY OFFICERS. THEY HELP ASSIST AT NUMEROUS COMMUNITY EVENTS AND WEATHER-RELATED PROBLEMS. THEY ALL HAVE THE RESERVE ACADEMY BUT ARE NEVER TASKED WITH FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER CALLS FOR SERVICE. THEY ARE NEVER ON DUTY TO AUGMENT A SHIFT SHORTAGE. An agency can still use these individuals as civilian traffic control officers, but if they will never be able to meet the experience requirement, they will either have to attend a full time ROC academy or they will no longer have powers of arrest after their certification expires. 

WILL THERE BE WAIVERS BASED ON AGE FROM THE PAT REQUIREMENT? No, the skills classes require a certain level of physical fitness; therefore, all officers will be required to successfully complete the PAT for entrance into the MTPC Bridge Academy. 

IF A PART-TIME MUNICIPAL OFFICER COMPLETES THE BRIDGE ACADEMY BUT DOES NOT MEET THE WORK HOUR REQUIREMENT, CAN THEY CONTINUE TO WORK PART-TIME? Yes, an officer who successfully attends and completes the MPTC Bridge Academy can continue to work part-time for their agency while working towards achieving the 2,400-hour requirement until a date to be determined by the MPTC Committee. The officer cannot work in a full-time capacity during this period of time. 

WILL PRE-ENTRANCE TESTING (COOPER STANDARD’S) BE REQUIRED? No, the only physical entrance testing required will be the PAT. There will be NO waivers on this requirement. The testing is done through an outside agency. The MPTC does not set the standards based on age. 

WILL THERE BE WAIVERS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE ALREADY ATTENDED A 56-HOUR FIREARMS COURSE? In-person trainings may be waived for certain qualified Student Officers who are currently MPTC-certified instructors in the specific subject matter area. In the interest of adhering to the standardization and consistency in the delivery of the training, no other waivers shall be granted 

WE HAVE 2 FULL-TIME SSPO WARRANTED OFFICERS WITH THE RESERVE ACADEMY. TO BE CLEAR, THESE OFFICERS NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM FULL-TIME STATUS AND CHANGED TO PART-TIME? An amendment was filed at the September 15, 2021, MPTC Committee meeting to allow SSPOs to remain working in a full-time capacity. At this time, we are waiting for an opinion on this from EOPSS Legal and POST. 

DOES A PARTTIME OFFICER WHO GRADUATED THE ACADEMY IN THE LAST YEAR NEED TO GO TO THE BRIDGE ACADEMY TO CONTINUE WORKING PART-TIME? If the officer successfully completed a full-time ROC academy, they are not required to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy; however, if the officer completed a reserve academy, then yes, they would need to attend and successfully complete the MPTC Bridge Academy to maintain their certification. 

HOW DO WE TREAT THE OUT OF STATE MUNICIPAL ACADEMY AND FEDERAL TRAINED OFFICERS? Out of state or federally trained officers are not eligible to attend the Bridge Academy. Exemptions will be handled at a later date. Only law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. 

IF I WAS A BOSTON SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER NOW TURN SSPO FOR A UNIVERSITY AND I HAVE A LETTER FROM BOSTON POLICE THAT SHOWS MY TIME AS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT I PREFORMING LAW ENFORCEMENT DUTIES, AM I ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? All law enforcement officers who have: 
▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and
▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, 
▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. 

BEING A RESERVE POLICE OFFICER FOR 15 YEARS, 3 OF THE LAST YEARS AS A POLICE CHIEF I NOW HAVE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Pertaining to specific rank, the MPTC is bound by the statute and does not have much by the way of flexibility. Therefore, pursuant to the passing of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act on December 31, 2020, “[a]ll law enforcement officers2 who have completed a reserve training program on or before the effective date of this section [July 1, 2021] shall be certified as of the effective date of this section. Prior to the expiration of that certification, the officer shall complete additional training as required by the Municipal Police Training Committee,” which includes mandatory attendance at the MPTC Bridge Academy and successful completion of annual In-Service Training. 

IS THERE AN AGE REQUIREMENT TO ATTEND THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? 2 See Massachusetts General Law Chapter 6E §1. There is a minimum age requirement of 21 years old to be eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. There is no maximum age requirement. 

DO OFFICERS WHO ATTENDED THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE RESERVE INTERMITTENT ACADEMY NEED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, an officer who attended a reserve academy at the Massachusetts State Police do need to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. The hours of curriculum are not comparable to the SSPO training academy in New Braintree. 

WHAT ABOUT HOURS THAT ARE VOLUNTEER AND UNPAID FOR AUXILIARY OFFICERS WHO ARE PERFORMING LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNCTIONS? As long as the individual worked in the capacity of a law enforcement officer performing specific police duties and functions, including exercising the powers of arrest, those hours count towards the 2,400 hours.

For any additional questions, please email [email protected]


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## Foxy85

So here’s an interesting thought.

They aren’t requiring “years of service” per se as a year is calculated at 480 hours. So one could have 2400 hours in day 3 or 4 years of working, if the town heavily uses said officer.

But then it goes on to say you need 5 previous (consecutive) years worth of in-service training. So in the end, you will need 5 calendar years as well as the 2400 hours?

Anyone else catch this?


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## Dpty1sp

Here is an easy fix… everyone prior to July 1 of this year is good. If you are part time regardless of status you do the bridge. We are all cops regardless of what capacity. Full time requirement for everyone else past July 1. It boggles my mind that an out of state academy like mine 770 hours plus 4-7 years experience doesn’t qualify for a bridge or an exemption per the Mptc because I’m an SSPO, but a 300 hr academy does….


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## mpd61

There is no easy fix. The Legislature pandered to the media-driven hype, and progressive minority voices that followed the George Floyd incident. We were all painted with that brush, and our legislature reacted to an anomaly 1390 miles away, in a knee-jerk negative fashion. It's over............................
THERE'S NO GOING BACK!!!


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## Sgt Jack

Dpty1sp said:


> Here is an easy fix… everyone prior to July 1 of this year is good. If you are part time regardless of status you do the bridge. We are all cops regardless of what capacity. Full time requirement for everyone else past July 1. It boggles my mind that an out of state academy like mine 770 hours plus 4-7 years experience doesn’t qualify for a bridge or an exemption per the Mptc because I’m an SSPO, but a 300 hr academy does….


Welcome to Massachusetts where very little makes sense. I had the opposite problem I have the Full time SSPO and and the RI. It was no good for a full-time municipal job but I could work in Florida at a busy suburban Sheriff's Office no problem. Want to work full-time in podunk Mass no exemption for you. 🙄.


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## zm88

Any mention if the state has a plan to cover the cost of Agencies having to send their guys to an ROC?


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## Foxy85

So not for nothing - but no more summer specials on the cape? What are those communities planning to do? Population explodes down there during the summer months.


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## CCCSD

Foxy85 said:


> So not for nothing - but no more summer specials on the cape? What are those communities planning to do? Population explodes down there during the summer months.


Riots. Heee heee heee.


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## masss

Oliverollie07 said:


> Well, now they are saying as long as you work full time as an SSPO regardless of your prior experience or hours, you just have to go to the bridge academy. So guys who are just hired now, does not have to go to the full time academy anymore. But the older guys who has been on the job for years has to go to the bridge academy and do the PAT test.
> 
> so they basically screwed everyone who’s older and more experienced. Someone at the meeting even mentioned, 1/3 of the people are going to quit just because of the PAT test. Nobody responded to it. Nobody cares.



Does anyone have this meeting recorded? Thanks


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## mpd61

masss Wow! After seven years? Welcome to the party! LOL!!!!


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## masss

mpd61 said:


> masss Wow! After seven years? Welcome to the party! LOL!!!!


Hahaha...If I don't have anything to offer, I don't speak! I have been silent for years! LOL


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## CCCSD

Most of us don’t have much to say…but we say it anyway!


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## Foxy85

Anyone know (confirmed) if there are limited tries / attempts to complete the PAT prior to attending the bridge academy.

Someone mentioned 2 tries and you’re done after that if you don’t pass. I haven’t found anything saying one way or the other.


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## USAF286

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone know (confirmed) if there are limited tries / attempts to complete the PAT prior to attending the bridge academy.
> 
> Someone mentioned 2 tries and you’re done after that if you don’t pass. I haven’t found anything saying one way or the other.


I have heard 2 as well, same for the Cooper I believe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HampdenCounty50

Foxy85 said:


> Anyone know (confirmed) if there are limited tries / attempts to complete the PAT prior to attending the bridge academy.
> 
> Someone mentioned 2 tries and you’re done after that if you don’t pass. I haven’t found anything saying one way or the other.



Yes you can take it twice and that's it.



https://www.mass.gov/doc/revalidation-of-the-initial-hire-physical-ability-test-pat-for-police-officer/download



It all on here as well explaining the time and everything you have to do. 






Schedule Physical Ability Test (PAT) for Fire and Police Departments







www.mass.gov


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## AUXCAPT

Bridge Hands on training schedule released
1. All Monday - Friday Days
2. Furthest west is Boylston 

More indication of the intent to eliminate Reserves in Massachusetts. 


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## HampdenCounty50

Under additional resources towards the bottom are the schedules. 





__





Bridge Academy Training


Training as required by the Municipal Police Training Committee




www.mass.gov


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## Foxy85

HampdenCounty50 said:


> Yes you can take it twice and that's it.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mass.gov/doc/revalidation-of-the-initial-hire-physical-ability-test-pat-for-police-officer/download
> 
> 
> 
> It all on here as well explaining the time and everything you have to do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Schedule Physical Ability Test (PAT) for Fire and Police Departments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.mass.gov


That’s for initial hires by a department. Not specifically geared towards the bridge academy. People attending are already hired and working.

Moreover what your document says is that if they fail two times, they have to submit a new “conditional offer of employment” and new medical and can retry more times.

either way it seems a little ambiguous unless you care to clarify further.


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## HampdenCounty50

Foxy85 said:


> That’s for initial hires by a department. Not specifically geared towards the bridge academy. People attending are already hired and working.
> 
> Moreover what your document says is that if they fail two times, they have to submit a new “conditional offer of employment” and new medical and can retry more times.
> 
> either way it seems a little ambiguous unless you care to clarify further.


That is the PAT test the Bridge Academy is requiring at this time. Same one initial hires have to go through. All this info in on the bridge academy training website I posted above. I agree, I don't know why we have to do this as we are already working.


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## Foxy85

HampdenCounty50 said:


> That is the PAT test the Bridge Academy is requiring at this time. Same one initial hires have to go through. All this info in on the bridge academy training website I posted above. I agree, I don't know why we have to do this as we are already working.


You’re correct. I’m not disputing that. What I’m trying to clarify is the limited number of attempts.

That document you provided states nothing about limited attempts regarding those attending the bridge academy. The document is dated 2019 well before any of this was even in existence.

I understand the obstacle course and what is required of the officer in order to move forward. My question is seeking clarification as to number of attempts to pass allowed. And yes, I understand jt says two in the document you tagged, however that is for an “initial new hire” not someone attending bridge.

We’ve all seen the requirement to pass the PAT. What I haven’t seen is something laying out specifically if there is going to be limited number of tries for those that potentially don’t pass it. As it pertains to bridge*


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## HampdenCounty50

Foxy85 said:


> You’re correct. I’m not disputing that. What I’m trying to clarify is the limited number of attempts.
> 
> That document you provided states nothing about limited attempts regarding those attending the bridge academy. The document is dated 2019 well before any of this was even in existence.
> 
> I understand the obstacle course and what is required of the officer in order to move forward. My question is seeking clarification as to number of attempts to pass allowed. And yes, I understand jt says two in the document you tagged, however that is for an “initial new hire” not someone attending bridge.
> 
> We’ve all seen the requirement to pass the PAT. What I haven’t seen is something laying out specifically if there is going to be limited number of tries for those that potentially don’t pass it. As it pertains to bridge*



Ah gotcha. Well yes it's the same exact standard for us as an initial hire. That is what I heard on the meetings. 

Some good info on this thread as well.









PAT Test


Hey guys, I just a couple of questions on the Pat test. I know you have a practice then a final test, Now if you fail one of the test can you retake it. I heard that if you fail on one of them you could retake. Thanks for you help.




www.masscops.com


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## Foxy85

HampdenCounty50 said:


> Ah gotcha. Well yes it's the same exact standard for us as an initial hire. That is what I heard on the meetings.
> 
> Some good info on this thread as well.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PAT Test
> 
> 
> Hey guys, I just a couple of questions on the Pat test. I know you have a practice then a final test, Now if you fail one of the test can you retake it. I heard that if you fail on one of them you could retake. Thanks for you help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.masscops.com


from what I can tell - you can take the PAT as many times as you like, it’s just gonna cost you $150 each time you do.

I’m guessing one’s chief will probably eat the first one but after that it’s gonna be on you.


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## AUXCAPT

Foxy85 said:


> from what I can tell - you can take the PAT as many times as you like, it’s just gonna cost you $150 each time you do.
> 
> I’m guessing one’s chief will probably eat the first one but after that it’s gonna be on you.


Add those days to the approximate 4 weeks you will need to take of from your “real job” if you work normal business hours… 


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## PG1911

AUXCAPT said:


> Bridge Hands on training schedule released
> 1. All Monday - Friday Days
> 2. Furthest west is Boylston
> 
> More indication of the intent to eliminate Reserves in Massachusetts.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


As in no more part time officers?? That'll eliminate whole departments!

What's the plan to replace them? Have MSP take over primary LE services in those towns? Multi-town/regional departments? Create patrol divisions in the sheriff's offices?


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## j809

Regionalization of police is the next step


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## Inspector71

PG1911 said:


> As in no more part time officers?? That'll eliminate whole departments!
> 
> What's the plan to replace them? Have MSP take over primary LE services in those towns? Multi-town/regional departments? Create patrol divisions in the sheriff's offices?


Relax,
Marc is understandably upset about the impact on auxiliary programs. He's indulging in speculation regarding reserves. Isn't the purpose of Bridge Academy to bring reserves up to the new standard?


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## AUXCAPT

Inspector71 said:


> Relax,
> Marc is understandably upset about the impact on auxiliary programs. He's indulging in speculation regarding reserves. Isn't the purpose of Bridge Academy to bring reserves up to the new standard?


This is impacting both auxiliaries and reserves. The hurdles put in place further solidified with the M- F normal business hour schedule shows that the intent is to eliminate all part time, paid or volunteer. 

(For the record I’m both an auxiliary and reserve in separate communities - I’m looking from both sides of the equation - we are all screwed) 


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## Foxy85

AUXCAPT said:


> Add those days to the approximate 4 weeks you will need to take of from your “real job” if you work normal business hours…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah not looking forward to burning my time for this, but I am fortunate enough to be able to have the time to use. I know others are in a worse spot.


----------



## Foxy85

Inspector71 said:


> Relax,
> Marc is understandably upset about the impact on auxiliary programs. He's indulging in speculation regarding reserves. Isn't the purpose of Bridge Academy to bring reserves up to the new standard?


It is. It is. However through attrition, reserves will be a thing of the past. No more part time academy.
The new full time academy on a part time basis will simply encourage those who want a career change to be able to attend the academy at night.

I don’t think anyone is going to the 9-10 month long part time - full time academy (at a cost of something like $8,000 + ) to make $20 / hour patrolling small towns.

Then with current PTers given the “sign of the cross” to go work Full time after the bridge academy, you’ll be hard pressed to fill a vacant “reserve” position in a town that utilizes them.


----------



## FAPD

AUXCAPT said:


> This is impacting both auxiliaries and reserves. The hurdles put in place further solidified with the M- F normal business hour schedule shows that the intent is to eliminate all part time, paid or volunteer.
> 
> (For the record I’m both an auxiliary and reserve in separate communities - I’m looking from both sides of the equation - we are all screwed)
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don't see that "intent". There are evening hours at two locations, on two Wednesdays each month for the exam portions. There are over thirty plus weeks between October and end of June to get in three weeks of Practical/Hands on training. It's going to be some puckering, but it can be done. Pretty sure we're still going to see Reserves for some time too. They won't go away overnight, or even in the next three to five years by attrition. Talk regionalization all you want too, Okay, where's the money and political support for that program currently?


----------



## Oliverollie07

Has anyone gotten their medical done yet? Went to a few places that supposedly do these kind of medical checks and they have no idea what to do or seen that paperwork. Some even said I should do it with my primary doctor. But MPTC said you can’t use your primary doctor. Very confusing.


----------



## AUXCAPT

Oliverollie07 said:


> Has anyone gotten their medical done yet? Went to a few places that supposedly do these kind of medical checks and they have no idea what to do or seen that paperwork. Some even said I should do it with my primary doctor. But MPTC said you can’t use your primary doctor. Very confusing.


I would check to see who your department uses for full time hires. If you are an employee VS Volunteer- who is paying??? 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Oliverollie07

AUXCAPT said:


> I would check to see who your department uses for full time hires. If you are an employee VS Volunteer- who is paying???
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Did that, and they said gotta do it through primary Care. I don’t think most small towns are paying for it. most people have to pay for it out of pocket.


----------



## Dobbs

I used the Occupational Health department at Reliant in Auburn. It was $550 with the echo. Easy enough to get an appt and they knew what they were doing. The form i was given to provide to the occ health doctor is here: hrd med eval form My primary care doc had no idea what I was talking about when I made the request but the secretary knew exactly who to call.


----------



## Foxy85

$550. Insanity. To keep our positions. Gotta love it.


----------



## AUXCAPT

Foxy85 said:


> $550. Insanity. To keep our positions. Gotta love it.


Some good reading on who should be paying for this exam. Hint - not you if you are employed. 









Mandated Medical Examination -- Who Pays?


Q. Do employers have to pay for a mandatory Doctors visit? A. At the cross roads of healthcare privacy laws and employment laws are physician visits made mandatory by an […]



www.boston.com






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----------



## mma798

Just trying to make this clearer, say you have a state university police officer who went to the SSPO academy. With this new police reform law, are they now eligible with that certification to work for any department in the state full-time?


----------



## AUXCAPT

mma798 said:


> Just trying to make this clearer, say you have a state university police officer who went to the SSPO academy. With this new police reform law, are they now eligible with that certification to work for any department in the state full-time?


It has to be a State Police run SSPO Academy that was held in New Braintree - then yes. 

(It has nothing to do with where you work) 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mpd61

mma798 said:


> ANY current police officer who went to the New Braintree SSPO academy is now certified to work for any department in the state full-time.


FIFY


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> $550. Insanity. To keep our positions. Gotta love it.


That’s crazy. And then PAT is 150


----------



## HampdenCounty50

*Medicals can be done by ANY DO, MD, NP, or PAC.* Any doc or PA that will fill it out can do it. Besides a normal physical there are only 3 required tests that need to be done on the HRD form. Spirometry, Audiogram, and PPD test for TB. That's all you need done. Once that is complete you can send your email to [email protected] which will come back with a response saying they are not doing testing right now. Then you need your chief to go into ACADIS and upload your documents to the bridge academy and submit your application.


----------



## Foxy85

Did we lose anyone Day 1 of the Bridge Academy? 😜😎


----------



## Oliverollie07

Apparently there’s another MPTC meeting next week regarding the PAT test.


----------



## HampdenCounty50

Oliverollie07 said:


> Apparently there’s another MPTC meeting next week regarding the PAT test.


Yes





__





Special Meeting of the MPTC Committee (10/12/21)







www.mass.gov


----------



## KPD54

I say the move is to have those smaller towns pay contracts to the sheriff's office, which already has the equipment to start patrol ops. Then let the sheriff's office hire more deputies and regionalize that way, no need to create a new entity if an existing one will do.


----------



## FAPD

KPD54 said:


> I say the move is to have those smaller towns pay contracts to the sheriff's office, which already has the equipment to start patrol ops. Then let the sheriff's office hire more deputies and regionalize that way, no need to create a new entity if an existing one will do.


Whoa! How many deputies are FT MPOC Certified right now? What's wrong with the existing police agencies already in place and operating? What you propose is to piss on the current cops and municipal agencies that exist, buy wiping them out, and then spending more $$$ to hire and train deputies to replace the police. Nice dude!


----------



## Foxy85

Another meeting? What’s the issue now?

I feel bad for this first wave of guys.


----------



## KPD54

FAPD said:


> Whoa! How many deputies are FT MPOC Certified right now? What's wrong with the existing police agencies already in place and operating? What you propose is to piss on the current cops and municipal agencies that exist, buy wiping them out, and then spending more $$$ to hire and train deputies to replace the police. Nice dude!


If these towns cant afford the full time cops, they need to centralize. The SO could hire the full time and bridge officers from those towns and put them right back to work. Make the process more efficient


----------



## Foxy85

Brother - this isn’t Florida or NH. Sheriffs exist strictly for the operations of the jails which are state funded. County government doesn’t exist. Counties are simply a geographic area in Massachusetts. There is no unincorporated land.

Youd have a better shot of seeing resident troopers like CT than you would with Sheriffs assuming patrol functions.

moving on . . . What’s the crux of the meeting regarding the PAT?


----------



## FAPD

Some of the latest identified talking points regarding reserve officers and the hoops to jump through for Bridge make sense. As far as Auxiliary though, The bottom line is these two points;

All Auxiliary (*Volunteer*) Officers excluded from 2,400 hours *due to lack of arrest powers.*
Can't see beating the drum to try to push these folks through when they have no real L.E. (police powers) authority. You cannot equate them with paid Reserve officers who patrol and respond to calls.


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> Brother - this isn’t Florida or NH. Sheriffs exist strictly for the operations of the jails which are state funded. County government doesn’t exist. Counties are simply a geographic area in Massachusetts. There is no unincorporated land.
> 
> Youd have a better shot of seeing resident troopers like CT than you would with Sheriffs assuming patrol functions.
> 
> moving on . . . What’s the crux of the meeting regarding the PAT?


not quite sure, it’s all rumors right now. Must be something big, cause that’s the only thing on the agenda.


----------



## Oliverollie07

They just got rid of the PAT test. 👍


----------



## CCCSD

Now it’s the FAT test.


----------



## j809

CCCSD said:


> Now it’s the FAT test.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## j809

Oliverollie07 said:


> They just got rid of the PAT test.


Did that happen today ? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## AUXCAPT

j809 said:


> Did that happen today ?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes - special meeting at 1PM. They dragged it out over a 40 minute conversation… The end result seemed pre determined- seems like they got a lot of pressure. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## j809

So I assume then we no longer have to give physicals as they were required for PAT test


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## AUXCAPT

j809 said:


> So I assume then we no longer have to give physicals as they were required for PAT test
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They kept the HRD physical. One Sheriff stated that they cost him $800 each VS a $20 co-pay if they simplified it. No one on the MPTC went for it.

We need to keep the pressure on and chip away at these hurdles one at a time if need be. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## j809

AUXCAPT said:


> They kept the HRD physical. One Sheriff stated that they cost him $800 each VS a $20 co-pay if they simplified it. No one on the MPTC went for it.
> 
> We need to keep the pressure on and chip away at these hurdles one at a time if need be.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What I don’t understand is that every reserve on my Pd all had employment physicals. That doesn’t count ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxy85

What. Is. Going. On.

lmao. This program is suppose to be good to go by now and we are still changing things on the fly.

so no more PAT requirement for the bridge academy? 😳😆


----------



## Inspector71

Foxy85 said:


> What. Is. Going. On.
> 
> lmao. This program is suppose to be good to go by now and we are still changing things on the fly.
> 
> so no more PAT requirement for the bridge academy? 😳😆


So now the pussies can all breathe a sigh of relief.
Auxiliaries are still out though right?


----------



## j809

So under the old rule that came out like a few weeks ago a reserve that went to bridge had 2400 hours patrol Ana a reserve academy could have gotten a full time waiver from the appointing department. I assume that’s not the case anymore and you’d have to go to the full time academy. As they should if they want to be full time 


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## CCCSD

Unless an SSPO who has four hours as a FT Officer who worked 2400 hrs PT, then got hired at a college, who then became a Chief before taking a job as a Constable PT.


----------



## AUXCAPT

Here is a link to a petition to the Governor that we started to bring public awareness to what is going on. Please read, sign and share. 

Sign the Petition 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxy85

j809 said:


> So under the old rule that came out like a few weeks ago a reserve that went to bridge had 2400 hours patrol Ana a reserve academy could have gotten a full time waiver from the appointing department. I assume that’s not the case anymore and you’d have to go to the full time academy. As they should if they want to be full time
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



which is fine, I guess - but then why bother with a bridge academy or additional training if it’s not going to change your status?

This state is so screwy


----------



## Oliverollie07

j809 said:


> So under the old rule that came out like a few weeks ago a reserve that went to bridge had 2400 hours patrol Ana a reserve academy could have gotten a full time waiver from the appointing department. I assume that’s not the case anymore and you’d have to go to the full time academy. As they should if they want to be full time
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this new from the meeting? I haven’t heard of this.


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> which is fine, I guess - but then why bother with a bridge academy or additional training if it’s not going to change your status?
> 
> This state is so screwy


I thought it’s as long as you completed bridge academy, your department can then sign you off to be full time certified.


----------



## Foxy85

Oliverollie07 said:


> I thought it’s as long as you completed bridge academy, your department can then sign you off to be full time certified.


It was (again not sure if anything changed) up to your department to “apply” with MPTC to seek permanent exemption from having to attend the FT academy. So I believe MPTC still has discretion on whether to grant the exemption.

I can’t see anyone getting rejected honestly, as the whole point of this bridge academy is to bring PTers up to par with FT trained officers.

With All of the nonsense going on, I’m debating on going to get my CDL and just driving truck for a living. No one to bother me. Just me and the open road. 😎😆


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> It was (again not sure if anything changed) up to your department to “apply” with MPTC to seek permanent exemption from having to attend the FT academy. So I believe MPTC still has discretion on whether to grant the exemption.
> 
> I can’t see anyone getting rejected honestly, as the whole point of this bridge academy is to bring PTers up to par with FT trained officers.
> 
> With All of the nonsense going on, I’m debating on going to get my CDL and just driving truck for a living. No one to bother me. Just me and the open road. 😎😆


I hear ya.. it’s been so aggravating. Everyday there’s something new with this bridge academy. Don’t know why they couldn’t just grandfathered everyone who’s been on the job for many many consecutive years.


----------



## kal.usmc

Does anyone know if MSP will be removing the degree requirement from their SSPO warrant waiver now that the bridge program will bring up reserve-intermittent trained officers to the FT-certified level?


----------



## mpd61

kal.usmc said:


> Does anyone know if MSP will be removing the degree requirement from their SSPO warrant waiver now that the bridge program will bring up reserve-intermittent trained officers to the FT-certified level?


Call the MSP Cert unit there Marine! They're probably still digesting and adjusting fire too!


----------



## mpd61

Oliverollie07 said:


> Is this new from the meeting? I haven’t heard of this.


No it's more of a question actually, a good one too!


----------



## mpd61

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
[/QUOTE]
No petition to Caha


AUXCAPT said:


> Here is a link to a petition to the Governor that we started to bring public awareness to what is going on. Please read, sign and share.
> 
> Sign the Petition
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No petition to Charlie is going to raise "public awareness". You need I-team or someone else in media to do that. People need to see and hear discussions.


----------



## Roy Fehler

kal.usmc said:


> Does anyone know if MSP will be removing the degree requirement from their SSPO warrant waiver now that the bridge program will bring up reserve-intermittent trained officers to the FT-certified level?


The way I read the law (as well as Scheft’s interpretation), there are no more waivers, you’re either POST-certified, or you’re not, and there is no mention of a degree.

If you currently have the R/I Academy _AND_ at least 2,400 hours of police patrol experience with arrest powers (paid detail time does NOT count), you’re provisionally POST-certified, which will expire within the next 2 years (depending on your last name), and you’re eligible to attend the Bridge Academy, which will bring you up to full-time equivalent.

If you have the R/I Academy, but not the 2,400 hours of police patrol experience, you’re out of luck, you have to do the full-boat academy to get POST-certified.


----------



## kal.usmc

mpd61 said:


> Call the MSP Cert unit there Marine! They're probably still digesting and adjusting fire too!





Roy Fehler said:


> The way I read the law (as well as Scheft’s interpretation), there are no more waivers, you’re either POST-certified, or you’re not, and there is no mention of a degree.
> 
> If you currently have the R/I Academy _AND_ at least 2,400 hours of police patrol experience with arrest powers (paid detail time does NOT count), you’re provisionally POST-certified, which will expire within the next 2 years (depending on your last name), and you’re eligible to attend the Bridge Academy, which will bring you up to full-time equivalent.
> 
> If you have the R/I Academy, but not the 2,400 hours of police patrol experience, you’re out of luck, you have to do the full-boat academy to get POST-certified.


I have the R/I academy (372hrs+56 for firearms and all the extra stuff) and I am currently coming to the end of my 2nd year as a sworn Special Police officer (working for a private entity, but my powers of arrest come from the municipality's police commissioner. So I have well over the 2400hrs of patrol as a sworn LEO, I will end up being bridged by my employer, but I am looking for some answers as to how that applies to the Special State equivalency guidelines.
I just don't have a degree...


----------



## Foxy85

Roy Fehler said:


> The way I read the law (as well as Scheft’s interpretation), there are no more waivers, you’re either POST-certified, or you’re not, and there is no mention of a degree.
> 
> If you currently have the R/I Academy _AND_ at least 2,400 hours of police patrol experience with arrest powers (paid detail time does NOT count), you’re provisionally POST-certified, which will expire within the next 2 years (depending on your last name), and you’re eligible to attend the Bridge Academy, which will bring you up to full-time equivalent.
> 
> If you have the R/I Academy, but not the 2,400 hours of police patrol experience, you’re out of luck, you have to do the full-boat academy to get POST-certified.


That’s not entirely true.

If you don’t have the 2400 hours experience you are still eligible to attend the bridge academy. They are giving a 5 year window from the date of the last graduating part-time academy to accumulate your 2400 hours. This was done to be fair to the most recent reserve class.

You can still work PT without the 2400 hours after attending the bridge, just not eligible for the FT waiver. If you don’t complete the 2400 hours by the end of the 5 year window, your POST certification will expire and then you will be required to attend the FT academy.


----------



## Roy Fehler

kal.usmc said:


> I have the R/I academy (372hrs+56 for firearms and all the extra stuff) and I am currently coming to the end of my 2nd year as a sworn Special Police officer (working for a private entity, but my powers of arrest come from the municipality's police commissioner. So I have well over the 2400hrs of patrol as a sworn LEO, I will end up being bridged by my employer, but I am looking for some answers as to how that applies to the Special State equivalency guidelines.
> I just don't have a degree...


What’s considered applicable as far as the 2,400 hours of experience is still very much up in the air, but my gut feeling is that the Bridge Academy is meant for part-time municipal officers (city and town employees), not private security with special police powers.

I also believe that a municipality needs to sponsor people for the Bridge Academy.


----------



## mpd61

Bargain rack @ Trippi's


----------



## Foxy85

mpd61 said:


> Bargain rack @ Trippi's
> View attachment 10710


When are they going to print bridge academy shirts. “MPTC Bridge Academy Class #001”


----------



## CCCSD

I think the Estate of Alec Guinness might be upset that a Bridge was used…


----------



## Foxy85

Has anyone here started the online portion yet? Are the videos any better than some of the in-service on Acadis?

Some of the in-service aren’t bad - the ones with Chucky D and a few others were decent. Others were brutal to sit through.


----------



## PG1911

Foxy85 said:


> Has anyone here started the online portion yet? Are the videos any better than some of the in-service on Acadis?
> 
> Some of the in-service aren’t bad - the ones with Chucky D and a few others were decent. Others were brutal to sit through.


Chucky D is Red Bull in human form, so I can imagine those videos are pretty entertaining.


----------



## grn3charlie

Anybody know if the audio or printed minutes from that last committee meeting is available and how to obtain either? Just be curious to follow how that discussion evolved and the website isn't exactly up to date. Thanks


----------



## Inspector71

grn3charlie said:


> Anybody know if the audio or printed minutes from that last committee meeting is available and how to obtain either? Just be curious to follow how that discussion evolved and the website isn't exactly up to date. Thanks


Agreed! Enquiring minds want to know..............


----------



## FAPD

The meeting wasn't zoomed due to the power issues from the storm. Wonder how long till the minutes are published old-school?
Did anybody attend and can relate what was covered?


----------



## Dpty1sp

Of course it comes when exemptions are on the line. They haven’t updated any meeting documents since September. Freaking phenomenal


----------



## j809

Dpty1sp said:


> Of course it comes when exemptions are on the line. They haven’t updated any meeting documents since September. Freaking phenomenal


They granted all permanent exemptions for out of state officers. They’re all good now no extra Training is required


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dpty1sp

This is confirmed. Even state police permanent exemptions?


----------



## j809

Dpty1sp said:


> This is confirmed. Even state police permanent exemptions?


I would assume so. They said out of state academies 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Dpty1sp

I wonder what the process is now. If we all have to reapply with the Mptc or it’s just a you guys are good.


----------



## AUXCAPT

Our situation featured on the National Police Association weekly show. 







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## Inspector71

I applaud the efforts of Marc Spigel to want to save auxiliary programs in Mass. Having said that, he is shoveling against what the legislature mandated and MPTC doesn't need to support.
I'm not in agreement where he keeps referring to auxiliaries in the same light as reserve officers. We all know reserves are paid and on patrol, different animals from unpaid volunteers. Working charitable events and weekends that FT officers "couldn't be paid to do them", and "great white sharks washing up"? We all know the Bridge Academy is a pain in the neck for most of us. Many reserves are being fully supported and even paid to attend practical portions like EVOC, firearms etc. I don't see how auxiliary programs can have a case made for the effort to certify them, when they are not L.E. under Chapters 41/98, 15A/22, 73/18, or SSPO.


----------



## Foxy85

Officer fires gun into own leg during firearms training







www.nhregister.com





oooff


----------



## CCCSD

Sure makes the argument right THERE!


----------



## j809

Some reserves are even dropping out of the bridge as they deem it too tough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxy85

j809 said:


> Some reserves are even dropping out of the bridge as they deem it too tough
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Youre going to have some realize they simply dont want to do the job anymore. I’ve got a couple guys debating on whether to bother with it as they were on the fence about how much longer they wanted to work PT anyway.

I can’t speak to the difficulty of it per se, as I’m not in this first group. I can say - that what I’ve seen from the couple guys I know attending in this first group, there’s no heavy lifting. If you have kept up on legal updates and stayed knowledgeable as a PT guy, the bridge will be a smooth transition.

I am curious as to what the “difficult” part of it is. It’s essentially all academic and should play as a refresher for active part time guys.


----------



## Oliverollie07

Does anyone know if reserve officers who will eventually be full time certified by doing this Bridge Academy, will get to be certified as an SSPO after that?


----------



## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> Some reserves are even dropping out of the bridge as they deem it too tough


Good, I don’t want those kind of people on the job, anyway.


----------



## PBC FL Cop

Oliverollie07 said:


> Does anyone know if reserve officers who will eventually be full time certified by doing this Bridge Academy, will get to be certified as an SSPO after that?


Under the MPTC, once an individual is certified as a full-time MA law enforcement officer, they are full-time certified and are eligible to work as a campus or municipal police officer and a deputy sheriff.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Oliverollie07 said:


> Does anyone know if reserve officers who will eventually be full time certified by doing this Bridge Academy, will get to be certified as an SSPO after that?


SSPO is not like being an old Boston Rule 400 Special Officer, which for years all you had to do was demonstrate a pulse and pay the fee. One cannot just be “certified” as an SSPO, you have to be employed by a specific agency as outlined in MGL Chapter 22C. These agencies include (but are not limited to) DMH, DPH, DMR, Massport (still referred to as the old name “Port of Boston”), colleges & universities, hospitals, railroad companies, and humane societies.

The heads of those agencies petition the superintendent of the state police, who makes the appointments, which are good from 1-3 years, depending on the agency.
Under police reform, all SSPO’s have to be full-time academy trained, with the MSP-run SSPO academy in New Braintree being considered equivalent. All other SSPO’s with the reserve academy will have to do the bridge academy.


----------



## CCCSD

So a full time grad, a bridge grad, is equal to or greater than an SSPO for hiring status?


----------



## Oliverollie07

Roy Fehler said:


> SSPO is not like being an old Boston Rule 400 Special Officer, which for years all you had to do was demonstrate a pulse and pay the fee. One cannot just be “certified” as an SSPO, you have to be employed by a specific agency as outlined in MGL Chapter 22C. These agencies include (but are not limited to) DMH, DPH, DMR, Massport (still referred to as the old name “Port of Boston”), colleges & universities, hospitals, railroad companies, and humane societies.
> 
> The heads of those agencies petition the superintendent of the state police, who makes the appointments, which are good from 1-3 years, depending on the agency.
> Under police reform, all SSPO’s have to be full-time academy trained, with the MSP-run SSPO academy in New Braintree being considered equivalent. All other SSPO’s with the reserve academy will have to do the bridge academy.


Thank you. So let’s say a reserve officer who went through bridge academy and was full time certified after. He/she gets hired by a campus police department, will he/she be able to get a SSPO license?


----------



## Foxy85

I feel like we’re talking in circles


----------



## Roy Fehler

CCCSD said:


> So a full time grad, a bridge grad, is equal to or greater than an SSPO for hiring status?


Yes, both will be considered full-time academy trained. That doesn’t change individual department requirements; for instance, a department can still specify they will only hire full-time academy graduates, and the Boston PD can still require that you have to go through THEIR academy only.



Oliverollie07 said:


> Thank you. So let’s say a reserve officer who went through bridge academy and was full time certified after. He/she gets hired by a campus police department, will he/she be able to get a SSPO license?


Yes, that satisfies the base training requirements for appointment as a SSPO, but as stated, individual departments can still specify their own standards.

For instance, some college/university departments in Boston (BU and BC for 2 examples) require the full-time municipal academy, they won’t accept SSPO or the bridge. If they hire you, you have to go through and graduate the full-time municipal academy.


----------



## CCCSD

Thanks. I was curious.


----------



## Dpty1sp

Roy Fehler said:


> Yes, both will be considered full-time academy trained. That doesn’t change individual department requirements; for instance, a department can still specify they will only hire full-time academy graduates, and the Boston PD can still require that you have to go through THEIR academy only.
> 
> 
> Yes, that satisfies the base training requirements for appointment as a SSPO, but as stated, individual departments can still specify their own standards.
> 
> For instance, some college/university departments in Boston (BU and BC for 2 examples) require the full-time municipal academy, they won’t accept SSPO or the bridge. If they hire you, you have to go through and graduate the full-time





Roy Fehler said:


> Yes, both will be considered full-time academy trained. That doesn’t change individual department requirements; for instance, a department can still specify they will only hire full-time academy graduates, and the Boston PD can still require that you have to go through THEIR academy only.
> 
> 
> Yes, that satisfies the base training requirements for appointment as a SSPO, but as stated, individual departments can still specify their own standards.
> 
> For instance, some college/university departments in Boston (BU and BC for 2 examples) require the full-time municipal academy, they won’t accept SSPO or the bridge. If they hire you, you have to go through and graduate the full-time municipal academy.



this is the problem with Massachusetts. It all should be the same regardless…


----------



## Roy Fehler

Dpty1sp said:


> this is the problem with Massachusetts. It all should be the same regardless…


Individual departments should be able to have whatever hiring standards they deem appropriate. The state standards are 21+, a GED, a driver’s license, and no felony/drug/DV convictions. However, many departments require a totally spotless record (no criminal record whatsoever, even misdemeanor charges), a college degree, etc. 

The same thing should hold true for training requirements. Departments that have always required the FT municipal academy now have no headaches with the bridge academy, unlike departments that took the hodgepodge route of reserve academy plus Associate’s degree, etc. The FT academy checks all the boxes.

If you want the job bad enough, you’ll jump through whatever hoops are put in front of you.


----------



## Foxy85

This hiring standards are different from training standards. Though I agree some agencies will still have their own spin on things, it seems very inefficient to do it that way.

If one has attended and graduated the most recent R/I Academy (400 ish hours), and completed the bridge academy (200 ish hours) and applies to “Mayberry PD” but “Mayberry PD” wants a full time MPTC ROC academy…. You’re now sending an officer through another 700 ish hours of the same training. Now 1300 ish hours of the same EXACT training.

Before anyone makes the MSP argument of having to do their academy after working Full time with an MPTC academy, it’s a bit different….

MPTC ran the reserve academy. Put on this bridge academy. And also runs the full time ROC’s. It’s all one in the same in terms of academics and knowledge. The tests are all the same. The print outs are all the same. The power points are all the same. So if MPTC says you’re all on the same playing field now. What sense does it make for a town to send a Bridge guy back to the FT academy…logistically speaking…?

Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience….

Just seems silly for a town to mandate a full time ROC for someone the state (MPTC) is saying does not need to attend to work FT.


----------



## FAPD

Foxy85 said:


> This hiring standards are different from training standards. Though I agree some agencies will still have their own spin on things, it seems very inefficient to do it that way.
> 
> If one has attended and graduated the most recent R/I Academy (400 ish hours), and completed the bridge academy (200 ish hours) and applies to “Mayberry PD” but “Mayberry PD” wants a full time MPTC ROC academy…. You’re now sending an officer through another 700 ish hours of the same training. Now 1300 ish hours of the same EXACT training.
> 
> Before anyone makes the MSP argument of having to do their academy after working Full time with an MPTC academy, it’s a bit different….
> 
> MPTC ran the reserve academy. Put on this bridge academy. And also runs the full time ROC’s. It’s all one in the same in terms of academics and knowledge. The tests are all the same. The print outs are all the same. The power points are all the same. So if MPTC says you’re all on the same playing field now. What sense does it make for a town to send a Bridge guy back to the FT academy…logistically speaking…?
> 
> Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience….
> 
> Just seems silly for a town to mandate a full time ROC for someone the state (MPTC) is saying does not need to attend to work FT.


Agreed 100%
There is still so much rumor and in-fighting still as well. Capt. Marc Spigel has hired a PR Firm to advocate "fighting" to save the "3000" volunteer and reserve officers in this state from the MPTC. They have put out there that the MPTC is "discriminating" and therefore eliminating all reserve officers as part of what the reform program is about. If that were true why would we even have a bridge program in the first place? Seems these guys are trying to save a few auxiliary departments by lumping them in with actual sworn reserves.









Massachusetts Volunteer Law Enforcement Officer Association Shares Concerns About Accessibility of Training & Possible Impacts on Numerous Communities


The Massachusetts Volunteer Law Enforcement Officer Association (MA-VLEOA) would like to bring attention to a recent change in requirements that will cripple volunteer, auxiliary and part-time reserve police programs across the Commonwealth.




jgpr.net


----------



## AUXCAPT

FAPD said:


> Agreed 100%
> There is still so much rumor and in-fighting still as well. Capt. Marc Spigel has hired a PA Firm to advocate "fighting" to save the "3000" volunteer and reserve officers in this state from the MPTC. They have put out there that the MPTC is "discriminating" and therefore eliminating all reserve officers as part of what the reform program is about. If that were true why would we even have a bridge program in the first place? Seems these guys are trying to save a few auxiliary departments by lumping them in with actual sworn reserves.


This is not just about auxiliary officers. It’s about making the training not accessible to many reserve trained officers, and by attaching other hurdles. 

The Act says additional training, nothing else… No issues with the Bridge. 

Not sure why you have issues with auxiliaries who have taken the same training, and have kept up with in-service. 

For the record, I’m also a sworn reserve - Same training - don’t understand why you see the need to differentiate. Happy to connect off-line to talk it through. 

Here is an article that’s not about auxiliary officers - but “actual sworn reserves” in your words. The issues are the same! Let’s stick together on this… 










Police Reforms Could Cause Shift Deficit for Lanesborough Police Department


LANESBOROUGH, Mass. — Police Chief Robert Derksen said the state's new police reforms could cause a shift deficit, meaning the town likely has to hire a sixth full-time police officer in...



www.iberkshires.com






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## FAPD

AUXCAPT said:


> This is not just about auxiliary officers. It’s about making the training not accessible to many reserve trained officers, and by attaching other hurdles.
> 
> The Act says additional training, nothing else… No issues with the Bridge.
> 
> Not sure why you have issues with auxiliaries who have taken the same training, and have kept up with in-service.
> 
> For the record, I’m also a sworn reserve - Same training - don’t understand why you see the need to differentiate. Happy to connect off-line to talk it through.
> 
> Here is an article that’s not about auxiliary officers - but “actual sworn reserves” in your words. The issues are the same! Let’s stick together on this…
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Police Reforms Could Cause Shift Deficit for Lanesborough Police Department
> 
> 
> LANESBOROUGH, Mass. — Police Chief Robert Derksen said the state's new police reforms could cause a shift deficit, meaning the town likely has to hire a sixth full-time police officer in...
> 
> 
> 
> www.iberkshires.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I don't personally have issues with auxiliaries, but MPTC say's they can not/will not support or train auxiliary volunteers going forward. They can only certify sworn police officers who perform L.E. functions. You heard Chief Hicks and others explain this. Your also a sworn reserve with the same training and" don't see the need to differentiate." Please sir, you know there several reasons, both by statute and in practice that makes auxiliary volunteers quite different. Right now there are officers attending the Bridge Academy at night in Boylston for DT. There are evenings scheduled at Reading and another location to take knowledge tests. Yes it's hard for many, but as Roy Fehler above pointed out, "if you want the job bad enough, you'll jump through whatever hoops are put in front of you." As for "sticking together" there is no need to talk it through off-line. Let's be transparent.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Foxy85 said:


> This hiring standards are different from training standards. Though I agree some agencies will still have their own spin on things, it seems very inefficient to do it that way.
> 
> If one has attended and graduated the most recent R/I Academy (400 ish hours), and completed the bridge academy (200 ish hours) and applies to “Mayberry PD” but “Mayberry PD” wants a full time MPTC ROC academy…. You’re now sending an officer through another 700 ish hours of the same training. Now 1300 ish hours of the same EXACT training.
> 
> Before anyone makes the MSP argument of having to do their academy after working Full time with an MPTC academy, it’s a bit different….
> 
> MPTC ran the reserve academy. Put on this bridge academy. And also runs the full time ROC’s. It’s all one in the same in terms of academics and knowledge. The tests are all the same. The print outs are all the same. The power points are all the same. So if MPTC says you’re all on the same playing field now. What sense does it make for a town to send a Bridge guy back to the FT academy…logistically speaking…?
> 
> Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience….
> 
> Just seems silly for a town to mandate a full time ROC for someone the state (MPTC) is saying does not need to attend to work FT.


As I said, individual departments can do whatever they want, it’s their time and money to waste. If you don’t like it, then don’t apply to that department.

More than once, someone who graduated from the Boston Police Academy for a different department has been hired by Boston PD, and they have to go through the Boston Academy all over again, with a different patch on their sleeve.

Again, if someone isn’t willing to do that, then don’t apply to Boston PD. If you want the job bad enough, then you’ll play the game and jump through the hoops.


----------



## Foxy85

That’s kind of the perfect example of how inefficient this state can be.

Im not debating anyones desire or drive to put themselves through the repetitive nonsense of multiple academies, of the exact same training... I’m pointing out that part of the police reform was more or less suppose to create a level playing field in terms of training requirements, and agencies are still playing the games.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Foxy85 said:


> That’s kind of the perfect example of how inefficient this state can be.
> 
> Im not debating anyones desire or drive to put themselves through the repetitive nonsense of multiple academies, of the exact same training... I’m pointing out that part of the police reform was more or less suppose to create a level playing field in terms of training requirements, and agencies are still playing the games.


It created a base level of training/certification, not a level playing field for everyone. It’s very much how a state can grant more personal rights than granted by the US Constitution, but not less. For example, a state cannot institute death penalty by torture, but theoretically could decriminalize pretty much everything. We’ve seen that with marijuana; still illegal under Federal law, decriminalized and even totally legalized by many states.

Same thing with training; agencies are free to require more training than what POST mandates, but not less. If Boston PD wants to make everyone they hire go through their academy with their patch on the khakis, even if they just finished the Boston Academy with a different patch, that’s absolutely their right. It’s their time and money.

I think what’s in play here is that many people who had what I call the “hodgepodge” of training (reserve academy plus Associate’s degree) thought they could skate through the Bridge Academy, and that was their Willie Wonka Golden Ticket. Not so, many departments will still require their own training standards that are in addition to base POST certification. I know of at least one major Boston campus PD that will not accept anything but the full municipal academy. No SSPO, no Bridge, nothing but the full academy.

As I said, if anyone wants the job bad enough, they’ll jump through the hoops.


----------



## Foxy85

1 job, 1 standard. Bottom line. Let each agency tack on additional certs or specialized trainings all they want. That’s fine. And to each their own.

Florida LE all goes through the same. Campus, State, City, County, Fish and Game. All the same training. All. The. Same. Training.

Agencies can mandate their own training on top of the LE academy. For instance Hillsboro County has some sort of pre academy cert to get their guys in line with the way they do things before sending them off to the regional academy. Fish and Game obviously has their own training outside of the basic LE.

Makes way more sense. I think Mass., is getting there, minus the examples Roy is citing about Boston and repeating the exact same academy. Those will eventually fade away.

“If anyone wants the job bad enough, they’ll jump through hoops.”

My man, no one wants these jobs anymore. That in and of itself is yet another problem this country is facing.


----------



## PG1911

Roy Fehler said:


> Individual departments should be able to have whatever hiring standards they deem appropriate. The state standards are 21+, a GED, a driver’s license, and no felony/drug/DV convictions. However, many departments require a totally spotless record (no criminal record whatsoever, even misdemeanor charges), a college degree, etc.


Some departments want an almost total sinless life. Tried pot once, even as a teenager? Disqualified. Had a beer underage? Disqualified. Hell, one PD in PA I know of permanently disqualifies anybody who has ever been fired, or even laid off, from a job at any time on their life. I know another that won't hire anybody who has ever been turned down for a job at another police department for any reason. That's their prerogative I suppose, but then they turn around bitch that they can't fill any of their openings.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Foxy85 said:


> 1 job, 1 standard. Bottom line. Let each agency can tack on additional certs or specialized trainings all they want. That’s fine. And to each their own.
> 
> Florida LE all goes through the same. Campus, State, City, County, Fish and Game. All the same training. All. The. Same. Training.
> 
> Agencies can mandate their own training on top of the LE academy. For instance Hillsboro County has some sort of pre academy cert to get their guys in line with the way they do things before sending them off to the regional academy. Fish and Game obviously has their own training outside of the basic LE.
> 
> Makes way more sense. I think Mass., is getting there, minus the examples Roy is citing about Boston and repeating the exact same academy. Those will eventually fade away.
> 
> “If anyone wants the job bad enough, they’ll jump through hoops.”
> 
> My man, no one wants these jobs anymore. That in and of itself is yet another problem this country is facing.


I’ve been hearing that “these things will fade away” for over 30 years, yet here we are. Wishful thinking by those looking for shortcuts.

Police hiring is cyclical. Back in the 60’s & 70’s, everyone hated the police, then by the 1980’s it became a VERY desired career. Then, the dot.com boom hit, and cops were suckers for doing a dangerous job for relative peanuts. Then when the market crashed, everyone wanted to be a cop again.

After George Floyd and the reform/defund efforts, it’s again on the downswing. As soon as the fakedemic and associated government handouts/excuses stop, it will again be a desired career. I’ve seen the cycle repeat too many times to believe otherwise.

If I’ve learned anything in my time on Earth, it’s that shortcuts will eventually bite you in the ass, unless you’re content with mediocrity. I’ve lost count of how many people I’ve seen who want to be a (insert department here) cop, but aren’t willing to do whatever it takes to actually be one.


----------



## Roy Fehler

PG1911 said:


> Some departments want an almost total sinless life. Tried pot once, even as a teenager? Disqualified. Had a beer underage? Disqualified. Hell, one PD in PA I know of permanently disqualifies anybody who has ever been fired, or even laid off, from a job at any time on their life. I know another that won't hire anybody who has ever been turned down for a job at another police department for any reason. That's their prerogative I suppose, but then they turn around bitch that they can't fill any of their openings.


Then let them bitch. As you said, their prerogative.


----------



## Foxy85

Again individual departmental hiring standards vs state certified training standards.

My point is that POST being established should more or less negate the repetitive need to have the same academies teaching the same things, and the need to graduate from more than one of them.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Foxy85 said:


> Again individual departmental hiring standards vs state certified training standards.
> 
> My point is that POST should more or less negate the repetitive need to have the same academies teaching the same things, and the need to graduate from more than one of them.


What you’re proposing is for police departments to relinquish their hiring standards, surrender them to the state, which I suspect (tell me I’m wrong if I am) is based in your own inadequate training to satisfy many police departments in Massachusetts, and you’re looking for a shortcut. Your passion for shortcuts leads to no other logical conclusion.

As I’ve stated _ad nauseum, _there is absolutely nothing preventing police departments in Massachusetts from accepting the bare minimum of POST standards. If any police department wants to require a higher standard than that, then that’s no one’s damn business, except for those departments and those for whom they have to answer (voters, etc.).

Once AGAIN….if you or anyone else doesn’t like it, then seek employment elsewhere. No one will mourn your absence, I’ll guarantee that.


----------



## Foxy85

Dude - relax. I haven’t once even uttered the word short cut …. Not sure what your malfunction is?

You’re fixated on departments having the ability to mandate their own training requirements to be employed for said department. MSP and agencies like Boston may in-fact have their own academy. It is what it is.

What I’m saying (not proposing, as it’s already being established) is that POST has already established that MPTC ROC, SSPO and Bridge academy are now considered equivalent in the eyes of POST and state training requirements.

Officers will need to be POST certified to be eligible for hire. The academy they attended (as it’s all one level of training now) will have little bearing on whether they are qualified or capable of doing the job as it’s all under one umbrella now of POST.

Im not even talking about additional hiring standards of education, military, experience, etc….whatever the agency requires. I agree with you on that. 

I simply said it’s inefficient (using your own example of a recruit attending the Boston academy for another agency and then being required to attend the exact same academy with a different patcg On your arm) for agencies to do that. Period.

You made your point “want the job, jump through hoops, repeat training” yadda yadda. I got it. Cool.


----------



## Oliverollie07

Sorry to interrupt the discussion… but does anyone know what’s the next step after completing bridge? I heard we have to go through a board interview and an extensive background check of all the places you have worked before? Has anyone heard the same thing or heard otherwise?


----------



## Foxy85

A board interview for…? MPTC / POST?

Im sure there will be some sort of vetting process to complete the FT certification… probably more to do with your employer submitting all applicable records and hours of employment?

Where are you hearing this from?


----------



## Oliverollie07

Foxy85 said:


> A board interview for…? MPTC / POST?
> 
> Im sure there will be some sort of vetting process to complete the FT certification… probably more to do with your employer submitting all applicable records and hours of employment?
> 
> Where are you hearing this from?


with POST is what I heard. Yes I assumed so too but I think it’s more than what your employer submit. They want background checks on all places you have worked as a LE on your resume.

I will have to complete bridge to find out. Or someone who has completed it will have to share what the next step is.


----------



## Foxy85

Oliverollie07 said:


> with POST is what I heard. Yes I assumed so too but I think it’s more than what your employer submit. They want background checks on all places you have worked as a LE on your resume.
> 
> I will have to complete bridge to find out. Or someone who has completed it will have to share what the next step is.


Never heard of MPTC doing backgrounds. Usually it’s an employing agency. But it’s all new so who knows? I haven’t heard that one yet though.


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## mpd61

Admiral Halsey jumped "through the hoops" and became a Naval Aviator at the age of 52! It can be done if you really try. "Clear the Bridge!"


----------



## Roy Fehler

mpd61 said:


> Admiral Halsey jumped "through the hoops" and became a Naval Aviator at the age of 52! It can be done if you really try. "Clear the Bridge!"


My point exactly. Since this reform garbage, I’ve seen more people who are looking for any way possible to get around the new training requirements.

If they expended half the effort they’ve put into looking for shortcuts, and directed it towards just getting through the academy, they’d have nothing to worry about.


----------



## CCCSD

Roy Fehler said:


> My point exactly. Since this reform garbage, I’ve seen more people who are looking for any way possible to get around the new training requirements.
> 
> If they expended half the effort they’ve put into looking for shortcuts, and directed it towards just getting through the academy, they’d have nothing to worry about.


Im betting that”work ethic” is also reflected in their product and reports…


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## Dpty1sp

Great news for those exemptions today. Did they all get passed and granted??


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## CCCSD

Dpty1sp said:


> Great news for those exemptions today. Did they all get passed and granted??


What were they?


----------



## mpd61

CCCSD said:


> What were they?


Better question is probably WHO were they. Preeeety sure he was referring to the names requesting "permanent exemption" Eh?


----------



## Kilvinsky

Roy Fehler said:


> Then let them bitch. As you said, their prerogative.





mpd61 said:


> Better question is probably WHO were they. Preeeety sure he was referring to the names requesting "permanent exemption" Eh?


*CANADIANS?

EH?*


----------



## NEPS

Regarding POST and background checks, see new Chapter 6E, section 4(f)(1):

The division of police certification and the municipal police training committee established in section 116 of chapter 6 shall jointly establish minimum certification standards for all officers that shall include, but not be limited to: (i) attaining the age of 21; (ii) successful completion of a high school education or equivalent, as determined by the commission; (iii) successful completion of the basic training program approved by the municipal police training committee; (iv) successful completion of a physical and psychological fitness evaluation approved by the commission; (v) successful completion of a state and national background check, including, but not limited to, fingerprinting and a full employment history; provided, that if the applicant has been previously employed in law enforcement in any state or United States territory or by the federal government, the applicant’s full employment record, including complaints and discipline, shall be evaluated in the background check; (vi) passage of an examination approved by the commission; (vii) possession of current first aid and cardiopulmonary resuscitation certificates or equivalent, as determined by the commission; (viii) successful completion of an oral interview administered by the commission; and (ix) being of good moral character and fit for employment in law enforcement, as determined by the commission.

All of this is to be reviewed by the POST's division of certification for each candidate for certification prior to POST action.


----------



## Foxy85

Is this for every officer going forward or all current officers as well? Good luck to whoever takes on that endeavor. Lots of paperwork to review!


----------



## FAPD

Foxy85 said:


> Is this for every officer going forward or all current officers as well? Good luck to whoever takes on that endeavor. Lots of paperwork to review!


Damn good question right there!


----------



## NEPS

Foxy85 said:


> Is this for every officer going forward or all current officers as well? Good luck to whoever takes on that endeavor. Lots of paperwork to review!


As I read the law, it is only new hires when reviewed for certification.


----------



## mpd61

Soooo............
What's the latest poop? How's everyone doing in the Bridge Academy? More than two months in and a substantial portion have knocked out DT/Firearms and EVOC. Any word on the Modules and testing portion?


----------



## FAPD

I dunno about any Bridge news, but Marc Spigel (Framingham Aux) has officially declared war on the whole of MPTC, by meeting with Karen Spilka and declaring that Chief Hicks and the gang are trying to wipe out all the part timers. Someone call CNN.


----------



## Roy Fehler

FAPD said:


> I dunno about any Bridge news, but Marc Spigel (Framingham Aux) has officially declared war on the whole of MPTC, by meeting with Karen Spilka and declaring that Chief Hicks and the gang are trying to wipe out all the part timers. Someone call CNN.











Definition of TILT AT WINDMILLS


to use time and energy to attack an enemy or problem that is not real or important… See the full definition




www.merriam-webster.com


----------



## Inspector71

Roy Fehler said:


> Definition of TILT AT WINDMILLS
> 
> 
> to use time and energy to attack an enemy or problem that is not real or important… See the full definition
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.merriam-webster.com


Yeah,
The fact that PD's in Worcester and northern Middlesex counties are still actively hiring reserves, and the Bridge Academy has a breastfeeding/pregnancy policy, I can't see Captain Spigel's crusade amounting to much.


----------



## Roy Fehler

Inspector71 said:


> Yeah,
> The fact that PD's in Worcester and northern Middlesex counties are still actively hiring reserves, and the Bridge Academy has a breastfeeding/pregnancy policy, I can't see Captain Spigel's crusade amounting to much.


There can still be reserves/specials/etc., they just need the FT certification. Good opportunity for retired officers who don’t want to fully retire, but also don’t want the 40-hour grind every week.


----------



## mpd61

Interesting if you watch entirety. Probably could have less emphasis and visuals on Harbormasters, but a fair segment.








Mass. police reform may bring massive training need for non-traditional officers


Many other types of non-traditional law enforcement that have arrest powers will also need extra training- along with campus police, reserve officers and sheriffs deputies.




www.wcvb.com


----------



## KPD54

mpd61 said:


> Interesting if you watch entirety. Probably could have less emphasis and visuals on Harbormasters, but a fair segment.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mass. police reform may bring massive training need for non-traditional officers
> 
> 
> Many other types of non-traditional law enforcement that have arrest powers will also need extra training- along with campus police, reserve officers and sheriffs deputies.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> www.wcvb.com


interesting idea. Some of the coast towns here have harbor masters, shellfish masters and the like, which really wouldn’t belong in a class teaching about cruiser tactics. Most of those guys don’t even have firearms. Would like to see what mass does about this


----------



## FAPD

Kathy Curran should have gone directly to Marc Spigel for comment. He's the expert in police reform for non-traditional officers. He's a charming personality with national exposure thanks to Betsy Brantner-Smith and Karen Spilka..........


----------



## Roy Fehler

FAPD said:


> Kathy Curran should have gone directly to Marc Spigel for comment. He's the expert in police reform for non-traditional officers. He's a charming personality with national exposure thanks to Betsy Brantner-Smith and Karen Spilka..........


National exposure?

Then why have I never heard of him?


----------



## Inspector71

Roy Fehler said:


> National exposure?
> 
> Then why have I never heard of him?


Maybe because his actual career is as a full time CPA/Financial Manager. Don't get me wrong, he's a passionate crusader for auxiliaries, but he seems to be misrepresenting some facts in his attacks on MPTC. Only time will tell if he actually gets anywhere with PR firms and tugging on Karen Spilka's sleeve.


----------



## Oliverollie07

Did anyone see the new SSPO certification requirements? One of the requirements is “Verification of an approved physical ability test” 
So PAT is back on??? lol


----------



## mpd61

1. FUCK SSPO!!!!!
2. What the cert unit promulgates under CMR's for PAT doesn't mean squat for anyone else
3. Whatever "Derr Kernel" wants!


----------



## Inspector71

Just heard that Framingham and a couple other towns are disbanding their Auxiliaries. The Bell is tolling for those folks.
On a positive note, over 800+ reserves etc. are enrolled in the Bridge Academy. So that could be perhaps 2500 plus officers jump the hurdles over the next two and a half years! Good job folks!


----------



## j809

Inspector71 said:


> Just heard that Framingham and a couple other towns are disbanding their Auxiliaries. The Bell is tolling for those folks.
> On a positive note, over 800+ reserves etc. are enrolled in the Bridge Academy. So that could be perhaps 2500 plus officers jump the hurdles over the next two and a half years! Good job folks!


Unfortunately only 18 people A-H have completed the bridge and passed their exams so far. That’s statewide 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Foxy85

Inspector71 said:


> Just heard that Framingham and a couple other towns are disbanding their Auxiliaries. The Bell is tolling for those folks.
> On a positive note, over 800+ reserves etc. are enrolled in the Bridge Academy. So that could be perhaps 2500 plus officers jump the hurdles over the next two and a half years! Good job folks!


800….
Less than half of all those who were eligible in this round … so I’m told.

Many that I know have completed all of the practical portions - just waiting to take the exams.


----------



## Inspector71

Foxy85 said:


> 800….
> Less than half of all those who were eligible in this round … so I’m told.
> 
> Many that I know have completed all of the practical portions - just waiting to take the exams.


Yeah that seems to be the bottleneck, many banged out the three weeks of practical's by the first of the year.


----------



## j809

As of last week at chief meeting they said only 18 passed everything 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sal

Wish they’d update the mptc meeting minutes online.


----------



## WMA7787

j809 said:


> As of last week at chief meeting they said only 18 passed everything
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


18? Why is this number so low? Is this because of things out of the trainees hands or is this from too many failing exams/practicals


----------



## LGriffin

PBC FL Cop said:


> *This is the latest from the MPTC in reference to POST and the requirements for the Bridge Academy...
> 
> MPTC Bridge Academy 2021–2024 Frequently Asked Questions September 17, 2021
> 
> DEFINITIONS:
> 
> Civilian Traffic Control:* A non-sworn member of a police department whose duties are restricted to traffic direction, control, road construction details, parades, other pre-planned events that only involve vehicular or pedestrian safety and other capacities as determined by the Chief of Police that are not performed by Sworn Officers.
> *Law Enforcement Agency:* a state, county, municipal or district law enforcement agency, including, but not limited to:
> ▪ A city, town, or district Police department, [Local]
> ▪ the office of environmental law enforcement, [Environmental Police]
> ▪ the University of Massachusetts Police department, [UMass Police]
> ▪ the department of the state Police, [MSP]
> ▪ the Massachusetts Port Authority Police department, also known as the Port of Boston Authority Police department, and [Massport Police]
> ▪ the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority Police [Transit];
> ▪ Sheriff’s Department in its performance of Police duties and functions; or
> ▪ a public or private college, university, or other educational institution
> ▪ or hospital Police department. [College/University/Hospital] Law Enforcement Officer or “officer:”
> ▪ any officer of an agency, including the head of the agency; ▪ a special state Police officer appointed pursuant to section 58 or section 63 of chapter 22C;
> ▪ a special sheriff appointed pursuant to section 4 of chapter 37 performing Police duties and functions;
> ▪ a deputy sheriff appointed pursuant to section 3 of said chapter 37 performing Police duties and functions;
> ▪ a Constable executing an arrest for any reason; or
> ▪ any other special, reserve, or intermittent Police officer.
> *Police Detail:* 700 CMR 6.02 – any uniformed sworn law enforcement officer and any official marked police vehicle on a public works project. *A detail is a privately paid assignment. Accrued hours of police detail time can NOT be included in the 2,400 hours for exemption eligibility. The only time that can added to the 2,400 hours is assignments of shift in the role of a police officer on patrol. *Road Flagger*: 700 CMR 6.02 – an individual certified by MassDOT, or a MassDOT approved organization, to perform traffic control services on public roads.
> *Sworn Member:* A sworn member of the Department who is appointed as a Police Officer under M.G.L. Chapter 41, Section 98 or a Special Police Officer under M.G.L. Chapter 41, section 99.
> 
> ARE SPECIAL STATE POLICE OFFICERS [SSPOS] WHO OBTAINED A WARRANT BY ATTENDING A TRAINING ACADEMY RUN BY THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE ACADEMY IN NEW BRAINTREE EXEMPT FROM THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, SSPOs who obtained their official warrant from the Colonel of the MSP by attending the Massachusetts State Police Academy held in New Braintree, MA are NOT required to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy based on successfully completing and passing the comprehensive training program offered by the Massachusetts State Police.
> 
> ARE SSPOS WHO OBTAINED A WARRANT BY ATTENDING A TRAINING ACADEMY RUN BY THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE IN A LOCATION OTHER THAN NEW BRAINTREE ALSO EXEMPT FROM ATTENDING THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? No, only those SSPOs who attended the New Braintree training academy are exempt from attending the MPTC Bridge Academy. This is due to the fact that only the New Braintree site offered a comprehensive 707 hours of curriculum. ELIGIBILITY: All law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> 
> WHAT YEAR AM I ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? The approved MPTC Bridge Academy shall commence on or about October 1, 2021 and run through June 30, 2024. Pursuant to Section 102(d) of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act, “[t]he certification of a law enforcement officer who has graduated from an academy or training program certified by the municipal police training committee or the training programs prescribed by said chapter 22C [MSP] who is certified as a result of this section and whose Last Names begin with: A to H, inclusive, shall expire 1 year after the effective date; Certification expires July 1, 2022 I to P, inclusive, shall expire 2 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2023 Q to Z, inclusive, shall expire 3 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2024
> 
> WHAT IS THE TUITION FOR THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? There is no cost to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy; however, the officer is required to bring their own ammunition and issued firearm and the agency is required to supply a cruiser for the EVOC week including the cost of fuel (unless the agency can show a hardship).
> 
> ENTRANCE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY: Sponsorship: Every individual must be sponsored by a law enforcement agency. Medical Screening: Every individual shall be required to submit an Initial-Hire Medical Standards Medical Examination Form signed by a medical doctor and dated within ninety (90) days of registration indicating the candidate is medically cleared to participate without limitations in the practical skills-based sessions including defensive tactics, emergency vehicle operation course, and firearms training.
> 
> *Physical Ability Test (PAT):* Every individual shall successfully pass the Human Resource Division’s Physical Ability Test (PAT) within nine (9) months prior to the start date of the MPTC Bridge Academy. The cost to take the PAT test is $150.00. The PAT must be valid (unexpired) as of the start date of the MPTC Bridge Academy. For more information on the PAT test and how to schedule please go to Schedule Physical Ability Test (PAT) for Fire and Police Departments For additional questions please email [email protected]. Completed Agreement and Indemnification Form: Every individual shall complete a signed MPTC Agreement and Indemnification Form prior to the start of the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> *Health Insurance: *Every individual shall be required to provide proof of full medical coverage, which will remain in full force and effect through the entire MPTC Bridge Academy.
> *Firearms and Ammunition:* Every individual shall be required to bring their own issued firearm and ammunition and have a valid firearm’s License to Carry (LTC) or make arrangements for the transportation of a firearm and ammunition for the firearms range qualification course at the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> *Cruiser for one-week of Defensive Driving*: Every officer must have access to a police patrol vehicle for the week of training devoted to the Emergency Vehicular Operation Course [EVOC] also referred to as Defensive Driving. The MPTC will acquire twelve (12) police vehicles for use during the three (3) years of the MPTC Bridge Academy. These vehicles will be available at a specified EVOC driving course for any department that demonstrates a significant hardship in making a police vehicle available. The department will be responsible for the cost of fuel during the weeklong training.
> 
> WHAT IF SOMEONE IS OUT ON MEDICAL OR MILITARY LEAVE THE YEAR THEY ARE REQUIRED TO BRIDGE? There will be exceptions made for those officers out on medical or military leave. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by-case”) basis.
> 
> WHAT KIND OF ACCOMMODATION WILL BE GIVEN TO OFFICERS WHO ARE PREGNANT/BREASTFEEDING DURING THE TIME THEY ARE ASSIGNED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? There will be exceptions made for those officers who are pregnant or breastfeeding. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by case”) basis.
> 
> HOW DO I ENROLL FOR THE BRIDGE ACADEMY AND SIGN UP FOR CLASSES? Enrollment for the MPTC Bridge Academy will be done through ACADIS. Once successfully enrolled in the academy, the online course modules will be loaded into the individuals ACADIS account. All Bridge Academy Defensive Tactics, EVOC and Firearms classes scheduled through the MPTC staff and available by dates and locations. Only MPTC Bridge Academy attendees will be allowed to enroll in these classes.
> 
> CAN I STILL WORK WHILE I AM ENROLLED IN THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, as of July 1, 2021, all officers are effectively “certified” by POST and are eligible to work until the date their Certification expires and/or until they have successfully completed the MPTC Bridge Academy and, if applicable, have been granted an Exemption by the MPTC.
> 
> WILL I AUTOMATICALLY BE CERTIFIED AS A FULLTIME OFFICER UPON SUCCESSFUL COMPLETION OF THE BRIDGE? No, an officer who has:
> ▪ Successfully attended and completed the MPTC Bridge Academy; and
> ▪ Has worked in the capacity of a law enforcement officer performing specific police duties and functions, including exercising the powers of arrests for 2,400 hours over a five (5) year period or other period where the aggregate number of experience hours accumulated is equal to or greater than 2,400 hours; and
> ▪ Has successfully completed the mandated in-service training requirements for each of those preceding years. With the agency’s Chief Executive Officer’s authorization, is eligible to apply to the MPTC for an exemption which, if approved, would exempt the officer from attending the fulltime MPTC operated or approved Recruit Officer Class (“ROC”)
> Training Academy. Note: The official procedure for requesting an exemption for the Officer in question shall be initiated by the Chief Executive of the law enforcement agency that employs the Officer.
> 
> OUR SPECIAL OFFICERS WILL NOT MAKE THE 2,400 HOURS REQUIREMENT. THE WAY I'M UNDERSTANDING THIS, EVEN IF THEY COMPLETE THE BRIDGE ACADEMY, THEY WILL HAVE TO ATTEND A FULL-TIME ROC BECAUSE THEY DID NOT MEET THE 2,400 HOURS? If the officer has not already met the 2,400-hour requirement prior to attending the MPTC Bridge Academy, they will have a time period (yet to be determined) to complete the 2,400-hour requirement after successfully attending and completing the MPTC Bridge Academy. The officer must also continue to complete the mandated MPTC in-service training requirements.
> 
> SPECIAL STATE POLICE OFFICERS (SSPOS) COMPLETE THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE (MSP) ANNUAL IN-SERVICE AND NOT NECESSARILY MPTC ANNUAL IN-SERVICE. IF THEY DID SSPO IN-SERVICE BUT NOT MPTC IN-SERVICE DOES THIS DISQUALIFY THEM FOR THE BRIDGE? No, as long as the officer completed the required Massachusetts State Police annual in-service training for five consecutive years, that MPTC will consider the in-service training requirements met.
> 
> IF WE DID NOT DO THE MANDATED IN-SERVICE TRAINING, CAN WE MAKE IT UP? No, the mandated in-service requirement cannot be made up. Special exceptions will be made for those officers who were not able to complete their in-service training due to a medical or military leave. The appropriate documentation will be required but each case will be addressed on an individualized (or “case-by case”) basis.
> 
> WE USE SPECIAL POLICE OFFICERS FOR POLICE DETAILS ONLY. SINCE THEY WILL NOT MEET THE REQUIRED 2,400 HOURS, CAN WE NO LONGER USE THEM? Special Police Officers are considered Law Enforcement Officers by statute. As long as they have attended the Reserve Training Program, or in the case of retired Police Officers who have attended the fulltime academy and have been sworn in as Special Police Officers upon retirement, they can continue to work details until such time as their Certification expires provided, they continue to attend the required In-service training each year. Retired Officers presumably would have accumulated the requisite number of experience hours (>=2400 work hours). Part-time Reserve Officers or so-called “Specials” will need to accumulate the 2400 work hour total before (date to be determined) or they would be required to attend the MPTC Fulltime ROC Academy.
> 
> WHAT IF A RESERVE OFFICER THAT IS REQUIRED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY IN THIS FIRST YEAR DUE TO A LAST NAME BEGINNING WITH THE LETTER A - H, OPTS NOT TO ATTEND THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY, ARE THEY DONE AS AN OFFICER IMMEDIATELY? No, they can continue to work through June 30, 2021. Pursuant to the passing of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act on December 31, 2020, “[a]ll law enforcement officers1 who have completed a reserve training program on or before the effective date of this section [July 1, 2021] shall be certified as of the effective date of this section. Prior to the expiration of that certification, the officer shall complete additional training as required by the Municipal Police Training Committee. A to H, inclusive, shall expire 1 year after the effective date; Certification expires July 1, 2022 I to P, inclusive, shall expire 2 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2023 Q to Z, inclusive, shall expire 3 years after the effective date: Certification expires July 1, 2024
> 
> WHAT ABOUT RETIRED OFFICERS WORKING DETAILS? WILL THEY BE CERTIFIED? Special Police Officers are considered Law Enforcement Officers by statute. In the case of retired Police Officers who have attended the fulltime academy and have been sworn in as Special Police Officers upon retirement, they can continue to work details until such time as their Certification expires provided, they continue to attend the required In-service training each year. Retired Officers presumably would have accumulated the requisite number of experience hours (>=2400 work hours).
> 
> WHERE WOULD A FULL TIME CAMPUS POLICE OFFICER (NON-MSP SSPO TRAINED) WHO ALSO WORKS AS A RESERVE FOR A MUNICIPAL DEPARTMENT FALL? WOULD THEY HAVE TO ATTEND ROC BECAUSE THEY ARE TECHNICALLY FULL TIME FOR AN SSPO AGENCY? As long as the officer attended an MPTC certified reserve training program, they are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. Presumably, they would also be able to meet the 2,400-hour work requirement based on their full-time campus work coupled with their part-time employment hours. If not, they would be required to attend the next available MPTC Fulltime ROC Academy. 1 See Massachusetts General Law Chapter 6E §1.
> 
> WHAT ABOUT OFFICERS WITH NO IN-SERVICE AT ALL BUT HAVE THE WORK HOURS? An officer who has not completed the mandatory in-service training will have to complete five consecutive years of mandatory MPTC in-service training and have the requisite 2,400 hours of work prior to filing for an exemption.
> 
> HOW ABOUT AN AUXILIARY POLICE OFFICER THAT ATTENDED A RESERVE ACADEMY AND A 56 HOUR FIREARMS TRAINING AND IN-SERVICE TRAINING, WILL THEY BE ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND A THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? All law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> 
> THERE ARE SEVERAL PART-TIME OFFICERS IN BERKSHIRE COUNTY AND OTHER WESTERN MASS TOWNS WHO WORK FULLTIME HOURS BETWEEN MULTIPLE AGENCIES. DOES THE TIME BETWEEN ALL THE AGENCIES COUNT TOWARDS THE 2,400 HOURS? Yes, all hours between agencies can be accumulated to achieve the 2,400 hours; however, only one agency will be sponsoring the individual for purposes of the Bridge Academy enrollment.
> 
> WE HAVE 20 AUXILIARY OFFICERS. THEY HELP ASSIST AT NUMEROUS COMMUNITY EVENTS AND WEATHER-RELATED PROBLEMS. THEY ALL HAVE THE RESERVE ACADEMY BUT ARE NEVER TASKED WITH FULL-TIME POLICE OFFICER CALLS FOR SERVICE. THEY ARE NEVER ON DUTY TO AUGMENT A SHIFT SHORTAGE. An agency can still use these individuals as civilian traffic control officers, but if they will never be able to meet the experience requirement, they will either have to attend a full time ROC academy or they will no longer have powers of arrest after their certification expires.
> 
> WILL THERE BE WAIVERS BASED ON AGE FROM THE PAT REQUIREMENT? No, the skills classes require a certain level of physical fitness; therefore, all officers will be required to successfully complete the PAT for entrance into the MTPC Bridge Academy.
> 
> IF A PART-TIME MUNICIPAL OFFICER COMPLETES THE BRIDGE ACADEMY BUT DOES NOT MEET THE WORK HOUR REQUIREMENT, CAN THEY CONTINUE TO WORK PART-TIME? Yes, an officer who successfully attends and completes the MPTC Bridge Academy can continue to work part-time for their agency while working towards achieving the 2,400-hour requirement until a date to be determined by the MPTC Committee. The officer cannot work in a full-time capacity during this period of time.
> 
> WILL PRE-ENTRANCE TESTING (COOPER STANDARD’S) BE REQUIRED? No, the only physical entrance testing required will be the PAT. There will be NO waivers on this requirement. The testing is done through an outside agency. The MPTC does not set the standards based on age.
> 
> WILL THERE BE WAIVERS FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE ALREADY ATTENDED A 56-HOUR FIREARMS COURSE? In-person trainings may be waived for certain qualified Student Officers who are currently MPTC-certified instructors in the specific subject matter area. In the interest of adhering to the standardization and consistency in the delivery of the training, no other waivers shall be granted
> 
> WE HAVE 2 FULL-TIME SSPO WARRANTED OFFICERS WITH THE RESERVE ACADEMY. TO BE CLEAR, THESE OFFICERS NEED TO BE REMOVED FROM FULL-TIME STATUS AND CHANGED TO PART-TIME? An amendment was filed at the September 15, 2021, MPTC Committee meeting to allow SSPOs to remain working in a full-time capacity. At this time, we are waiting for an opinion on this from EOPSS Legal and POST.
> 
> DOES A PARTTIME OFFICER WHO GRADUATED THE ACADEMY IN THE LAST YEAR NEED TO GO TO THE BRIDGE ACADEMY TO CONTINUE WORKING PART-TIME? If the officer successfully completed a full-time ROC academy, they are not required to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy; however, if the officer completed a reserve academy, then yes, they would need to attend and successfully complete the MPTC Bridge Academy to maintain their certification.
> 
> HOW DO WE TREAT THE OUT OF STATE MUNICIPAL ACADEMY AND FEDERAL TRAINED OFFICERS? Out of state or federally trained officers are not eligible to attend the Bridge Academy. Exemptions will be handled at a later date. Only law enforcement officers who have: ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and, ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> 
> IF I WAS A BOSTON SPECIAL POLICE OFFICER NOW TURN SSPO FOR A UNIVERSITY AND I HAVE A LETTER FROM BOSTON POLICE THAT SHOWS MY TIME AS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT I PREFORMING LAW ENFORCEMENT DUTIES, AM I ELIGIBLE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE? All law enforcement officers who have:
> ▪ successfully graduated from an approved MPTC Reserve Officer Training Program; and
> ▪ have performed specific police duties and functions (not including assignments commonly referred to as police details) and,
> ▪ have not had an interruption or break in service greater than five (5) years, are eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy.
> 
> BEING A RESERVE POLICE OFFICER FOR 15 YEARS, 3 OF THE LAST YEARS AS A POLICE CHIEF I NOW HAVE TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Pertaining to specific rank, the MPTC is bound by the statute and does not have much by the way of flexibility. Therefore, pursuant to the passing of the Justice, Equity, and Accountability in Law Enforcement in the Commonwealth Act on December 31, 2020, “[a]ll law enforcement officers2 who have completed a reserve training program on or before the effective date of this section [July 1, 2021] shall be certified as of the effective date of this section. Prior to the expiration of that certification, the officer shall complete additional training as required by the Municipal Police Training Committee,” which includes mandatory attendance at the MPTC Bridge Academy and successful completion of annual In-Service Training.
> 
> IS THERE AN AGE REQUIREMENT TO ATTEND THE MPTC BRIDGE ACADEMY? 2 See Massachusetts General Law Chapter 6E §1. There is a minimum age requirement of 21 years old to be eligible to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. There is no maximum age requirement.
> 
> DO OFFICERS WHO ATTENDED THE MASSACHUSETTS STATE POLICE RESERVE INTERMITTENT ACADEMY NEED TO ATTEND THE BRIDGE ACADEMY? Yes, an officer who attended a reserve academy at the Massachusetts State Police do need to attend the MPTC Bridge Academy. The hours of curriculum are not comparable to the SSPO training academy in New Braintree.
> 
> WHAT ABOUT HOURS THAT ARE VOLUNTEER AND UNPAID FOR AUXILIARY OFFICERS WHO ARE PERFORMING LAW ENFORCEMENT FUNCTIONS? As long as the individual worked in the capacity of a law enforcement officer performing specific police duties and functions, including exercising the powers of arrest, those hours count towards the 2,400 hours.
> 
> For any additional questions, please email [email protected]



In plain sight we see the silver lining on all of this unjustly imposed nonsense. It's very easy to determine the shrewdest route to take for those who are comfortable enough in their own skin to be unconcerned about a title if the check cashes the same way. Kudos to resourceful Chiefs who implemented a program designed to hold onto good folks who paid their dues. 

Despite the pile of degrees and certifications, resourcefulness is the greatest skill you'll ever possess. 

Just smile and wave, boys and girls!


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## UnlawfulDesign

Inspector71 said:


> Just heard that Framingham and a couple other towns are disbanding their Auxiliaries. The Bell is tolling for those folks.
> On a positive note, over 800+ reserves etc. are enrolled in the Bridge Academy. So that could be perhaps 2500 plus officers jump the hurdles over the next two and a half years! Good job folks!


You can add Randolph Auxiliaries to the list. Yikes


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## Roy Fehler

WMA7787 said:


> 18? Why is this number so low? Is this because of things out of the trainees hands or is this from too many failing exams/practicals


This is pure speculation on my part, but I would bet that the PAT eliminated a lot of people.

I have a friend on the Boston PD Academy Staff, and he said the fail rate for the PAT is absolutely depressing.


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## j809

Roy Fehler said:


> This is pure speculation on my part, but I would bet that the PAT eliminated a lot of people.
> 
> I have a friend on the Boston PD Academy Staff, and he said the fail rate for the PAT is absolutely depressing.


There is no PAT for the bridge academy. Just a physical examination. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FAPD

LGriffin said:


> In plain sight we see the silver lining on all of this unjustly imposed nonsense. It's very easy to determine the shrewdest route to take for those who are comfortable enough in their own skin to be unconcerned about a title if the check cashes the same way. Kudos to resourceful Chiefs who implemented a program designed to hold onto good folks who paid their dues.
> 
> Despite the pile of degrees and certifications, resourcefulness is the greatest skill you'll ever possess.
> 
> Just smile and wave, boys and girls!


Sooooo,
What exactly is it you're trying to say "in plain sight"? LOL!!!


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## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> There is no PAT for the bridge academy. Just a physical examination.


Oh, good, one more reason why this “police reform” law is total bullshit. 👍🏻


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## j809

They did talk about cooper for everyone after 2024 every three years to keep your cert. Everyone in the state no exceptions. We shall see if it passes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Roy Fehler

j809 said:


> They did talk about cooper for everyone after 2024 every three years to keep your cert. Everyone in the state no exceptions. We shall see if it passes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Fine with me, but I don’t see that gaining much traction.


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## mpd61

j809 said:


> They did talk about cooper for everyone after 2024 every three years to keep your cert. Everyone in the state no exceptions. We shall see if it passes.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah cuz implementing Cooper later down the road for "everybody" would have the most impact on preventing George Floyd-like incidents. They might as well just make "everyone" part of Massachusetts National Guard then. Oh wait, we don't want to "militarize" the police. No exceptions? Yeah I can see the Chiefs really pushing hard to move this forward..............


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## Roy Fehler

mpd61 said:


> Yeah cuz implementing Cooper later down the road for "everybody" would have the most impact on preventing George Floyd-like incidents. They might as well just make "everyone" part of Massachusetts National Guard then. Oh wait, we don't want to "militarize" the police. No exceptions? Yeah I can see the Chiefs really pushing hard to move this forward..............


I know some departments that have gotten around PAT tests by having everyone do one push-up, one sit-up, and leisurely walk the mile (or whatever the distance).

They can’t suspend or fire everyone, and that way, no one can be disciplined for refusing to take the test.


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## LGriffin

Roy Fehler said:


> I have a friend on the Boston PD Academy Staff, and he said the fail rate for the PAT is absolutely depressing.


Which is well beyond disgusting considering the level of fitness required to stay alive on the job. Especially after odrama and his handlers launched their propaganda campaign to put a target on Cops.

Frankly, I had to look away from reduced physical "standards" after lazy dolts complained about the little wall (that replaced mean old pushups and situps) and basically put an elevator in front of it... Apparently it didn't occur to future hideajob recipients that you might have to overcome physical barriers on the job to stay alive until they found a place to hide you. For those unaware, I should clarify that I'm a female who doesn't believe in reduced standards since we're all doing the same job. Broken Toys (most are suffering from mommy issues) certainly don't give female Cops any breaks. And I was told that we "should expect to be assaulted" before a lib puppet dismissed my last ABPO in court. So, Cops should at least take it upon themselves to stay in shape to enjoy retirement. If not for your own self-worth, do it for the fact that obamacare destroyed decent standards of patient care which caused the good Docs, now emasculated by the term, "providers," to leave faster than we did. The reality is that it's just too expensive to have fatass related diseases.

As there is no crying in baseball, there should be no fupas in policing. (Your "bad knee" and "bad back" will feel better with fifty+ less pounds on it.)

Incidentally, has anyone ever seen a fat CSP Trooper?
I'd imagine they stay slim to offer less surface area for their shitty drivers to hit but overall, it appears that CSP's only impediment to perfection is that awful purple tie.


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## Roy Fehler

LGriffin said:


> I'd imagine they stay slim to offer less surface area for their shitty drivers to hit but overall, it appears that CSP's only impediment to perfection is that awful purple tie.


New York State Police are the ones with the purple ties and hat bands, purple being the color of the Roman Praetorian Guard.


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## HoneyBadger1

“Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience…”

that’s a good point about the hours; it’s clearly aimed at people who’ve been working FT with a reserve academy such as sheriffs and college PDs. I know from my time back in the day working part time for a town, 2400 hours would’ve taken me a long ass time, unless it’s includes details.. haha

The bridge plus 2400 should change the hiring policies for some departments even if just on a case by case situation, especially with recruitment down these days. I say should, but who knows..

It is funny though; man when I think of some of the dip shits I’ve worked with over the years, I’m reminded of how some of the part timers I worked with who worked FT for college departments in Boston or Worcester. They had a lot more experience and were just flat out better cops than some of my “colleagues” over the years with their FT academy from Boylston.. Not to say I haven’t also worked with some entirely useless morons who graduated a reserve academy. My long belabored point, so much of this job is what you are willing to put into it and/or on the job experience. Any halfwit can graduate a reserve or FT academy, we’re not brain surgeons after all..


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## HoneyBadger1

Foxy85 said:


> Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience….
> 
> 
> Just seems silly for a town to mandate a full time ROC for someone the state (MPTC) is saying does not need to attend to work FT.



“Mind you the Bridge graduate must have 2400 hours road time, so they aren’t exactly coming to you with zero experience…”

that’s a good point about the hours; it’s clearly aimed at people who’ve been working FT with a reserve academy such as sheriffs and college PDs. I know from my time back in the day working part time for a town, 2400 hours would’ve taken me a long ass time, unless it’s includes details.. haha

The bridge plus 2400 should change the hiring policies for some departments even if just on a case by case situation, especially with recruitment down these days. I say should, but who knows..

It is funny though; man when I think of some of the dip shits I’ve worked with over the years, I’m reminded of how some of the part timers I worked with who worked FT for college departments in Boston or Worcester. They had a lot more experience and were just flat out better cops than some of my “colleagues” over the years with their FT academy from Boylston.. Not to say I haven’t also worked with some entirely useless morons who graduated a reserve academy. My long belabored point, so much of this job is what you are willing to put into it and/or on the job experience. Any halfwit can graduate a reserve or FT academy, we’re not brain surgeons after all..


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## HoneyBadger1

“With the agency’s Chief Executive Officer’s authorization, is eligible to apply to the MPTC for an exemption which”

Admittedly I haven’t been closely monitoring the bridge academy and news updates. Doesn’t this line regarding certification go against the very thing this legislation and subsequent Bridge Academy are attempting to fix? You lay out guidelines such as hours worked, completion of the bridge academy, and attended In Service etc etc yet we’re still using things like “Exemption Forms”. It seems unnecessary and counterintuitive.

Not to mention, you’re somewhat chopping the knees off from officers attending the bridge with stuff like. Why have an exemption form?? If the Bridge wasn’t sufficient in of itself then why didn’t you just add more training hour and/or more tests into the bridge so that upon completion the officer is certified, Period. I know If I was a Chief I’d be hesitant to sign my name to an “exemption” form. I’d feel as if I’m taking some sort of liability gamble…


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## Roy Fehler

HoneyBadger1 said:


> that’s a good point about the hours; it’s clearly aimed at people who’ve been working FT with a reserve academy such as sheriffs and college PDs.


The 2400 hours of experience has to be patrol experience, which automatically excludes sheriffs.


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## PBC FL Cop

Roy Fehler said:


> The 2400 hours of experience has to be patrol experience, which automatically excludes sheriffs.


Not automatically, they will include deputy sheriffs who work on task forces (gang and drug units), K-9 or conduct criminal investigations.


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## Treehouse413

Roy Fehler said:


> The 2400 hours of experience has to be patrol experience, which automatically excludes sheriffs.


I’ve heard DS get a waiver for the 2400 hours if they worked inside the facility .


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## Foxy85




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## Roy Fehler

PBC FL Cop said:


> Not automatically, they will include deputy sheriffs who work on task forces (gang and drug units), K-9 or conduct criminal investigations.


That’s not patrol experience.

Sheriffs in Massachusetts do not work law enforcement patrol; they are tasked solely with the care, custody, and transport of inmates either awaiting trial, or sentenced to less than 2 1/2 years in custody.

It doesn’t matter what “task forces” they manage to force themselves onto, due to the political connections of their boss, they are NOT cops, and DO NOT work patrol, in spite of whatever line of shit a “deputy sheriff” in Massachusetts wants to give you.


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## PBC FL Cop

The MPTC is counting those hours toward the 2400 for Exemption purposes.


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## Roy Fehler

PBC FL Cop said:


> The MPTC is counting those hours toward the 2400 for Exemption purposes.


Who told you that, a deputy sheriff? 🙄


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## Foxy85

Double post - sorry


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## Foxy85

Roy Fehler said:


> Who told you that, a deputy sheriff? 🙄


It’s right on the form from MPTC that I attached a couple posts back. Right at the bottom.


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## PBC FL Cop

Roy Fehler said:


> Who told you that, a deputy sheriff? 🙄


The Executive Director of the MPTC


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## Inspector71

So when anyone completes the Bridge + 2400 hours and their agency head puts them in for exemption, and it's approved, is that the end of it? You can work full-time for ever? is certification good everywhere else in Mass?


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## j809

Inspector71 said:


> So when anyone completes the Bridge + 2400 hours and their agency head puts them in for exemption, and it's approved, is that the end of it? You can work full-time for ever? is certification good everywhere else in Mass?


That’s my understanding. They can work full
Time without attending a full time academy. Departments though can still require them to attend a full time academy, their preference 


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