# Aftermath of LOD Death in Agency



## BuddyTheBallyhoo (Mar 27, 2019)

I'm seeking thoughts and opinions here.

A police agency has a line of duty death occur during a police operation (not an accident like a cruiser crash).

Question: Is it unrealistic/unfair to expect an "after action review" to occur detailing what happened, what mistakes were made, and what steps are to be taken to ensure nothing like this happens again?

Let's say I go to a domestic. I screw the pooch and fail to follow procedure and as a result, something bad happens to the victim. I know there will be an investigation into this, what happened, who did or did not do what, and what steps should be taken (discipline/training) to ensure it doesn't happen again.

Is it unfair/unreasonable to ask the same when an officer is murdered LOD? Is it unreasonable to want an official report completed, available for review by all agency members and the public?


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## k12kop (May 24, 2005)

The expectation is not unreasonable at all. It should be how we learn not to repeat mistakes and tragedies. 
But then again as we all know we don't live or work in a perfect world, There are plenty of ways for something like this to get completely FUBAR'ed


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

Review of the incident after the fact is not a bad idea at all and you could learn a lot from it. Somethings need to be considered however, such as time, is this a fresh incident and still in the process of being investigated maybe we need to let the waters calm down first. 

Keep in mind many cases of the department doing any incident "debriefing" or any type of "grief counseling" can and often turn into a "Don't you tell me how to do my fucking job! you weren't there!" real quick and can be observed by many subordinates as the admin seeking absolution from the event attempting to avoid any liability. 

The fact is your department admin is not going to fall on their sword for you or anyone, any possible notion that a policy or law had been compromised or broken during the incident they will surely hang you out to dry. This potentially could cost the family of the fallen officer his or her death benefits, reputation ect. 

Plus its a pretty fucked up thing seeing your admin shitting all over a dead cop. IE. "If he did this XXX he would still be alive today so let that be a lesson to all of you"

So I can't give you an answer but I can offer you my perspective.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

My department has done this very thing for many years for "basic" tactical incidents but especially for significant ones, especially when we've lost someone. (Since I've been on the job, my department has lost *35* officers to line of duty deaths for one reason or another.)

Other than for medical reasons, all of our line of duty deaths are thoroughly investigated to see what happened, especially to see what could have been done differently (or better) in the hope that it won't happen again in the future. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, we'd be doing a disservice to our personnel if we as a law enforcement agency, didn't do that. It's not about finger pointing, it's about the truth. After all, isn't that what we search for as investigators?

See related "Debriefs" thread from 2008 on page three of the Patrol section of this site.


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

LA Copper said:


> Since I've been on the job, my department has lost *35* officers to line of duty deaths


Man that sucks, I'm sorry.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

RodneyFarva said:


> Man that sucks, I'm sorry.


Thank you. It's a dangerous job in a dangerous city but I wouldn't have changed it for anything after all these years. Although, I'm looking forward to moving back there when I retire in a few years.


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## BuddyTheBallyhoo (Mar 27, 2019)

LA Copper said:


> My department has done this very thing for many years for "basic" tactical incidents but especially for significant ones, especially when we've lost someone. (Since I've been on the job, my department has lost *35* officers to line of duty deaths for one reason or another.)
> 
> Other than for medical reasons, all of our line of duty deaths are thoroughly investigated to see what happened, especially to see what could have been done differently (or better) in the hope that it won't happen again in the future. There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, we'd be doing a disservice to our personnel if we as a law enforcement agency, didn't do that. It's not about finger pointing, it's about the truth. After all, isn't that what we search for as investigators?
> 
> See related "Debriefs" thread from 2008 on page three of the Patrol section of this site.


Thank you for that reply sir, and mad respect to you. Stay safe out there.


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## BuddyTheBallyhoo (Mar 27, 2019)

RodneyFarva said:


> Review of the incident after the fact is not a bad idea at all and you could learn a lot from it. Somethings need to be considered however, such as time, is this a fresh incident and still in the process of being investigated maybe we need to let the waters calm down first.
> 
> Keep in mind many cases of the department doing any incident "debriefing" or any type of "grief counseling" can and often turn into a "Don't you tell me how to do my fucking job! you weren't there!" real quick and can be observed by many subordinates as the admin seeking absolution from the event attempting to avoid any liability.
> 
> ...


Thank you Rodney, I appreciate your thoughts. Stay safe out there.


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## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

LA Copper said:


> Thank you. It's a dangerous job in a dangerous city but I wouldn't have changed it for anything after all these years. Although, I'm looking forward to moving back there when I retire in a few years.


Lunch is on me!


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

38bigblock said:


> Lunch is on me!


Why wait till then, let's do it when I'm back there for vacation this summer!


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

Commercial flights are MUCH less likely to crash now than 30 years ago. 

Medical procedures are MUCH less risky now than 30 years ago.

Structure fires are MUCH less common now than 30 years ago.

Because in each of these professions there is an institutional practice of thorough review of bad outcomes and a commitment to learning from past mistakes. People are human. Mistakes will happen. Our profession should (and in some places does) do the same. It's not all departments yet. But, it should be.

And, yes, we do a formal AAR after every significant event where we had problems. Even relatively minor ones. Thankfully we haven't had any LODD's like larger agencies (my past department has had some though not while I was there) but on more than one occasion having an AAR complete put us ahead of criticisms.... and the potential for someone else to propose a review.


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## BuddyTheBallyhoo (Mar 27, 2019)

All great posts guys, thank you. 

There is much I want to write but I don't dare as I have no idea who may be reading this. Suffice to say, I don't feel some in a leadership position are taking any accountability for their own shortcomings in a tragic event and the blame is being focused elsewhere. It is tough to see on a daily basis.


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

Be safe.


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