# denied lateral transfer



## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

what recourse do I have if I've been denied a lateral transfer to another dept


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## 7MPOC (Mar 16, 2004)

resign


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## Robert35 (Apr 5, 2006)

Nothing.


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## chet (Dec 5, 2006)

Roche,
You can resign and have the new dept pick you that same day. Make sure you check into how it will affect your civil service status first. I think you may lose it for a year, and then regain it after that year is up.


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

my current mayor is who denied me the transfer


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## 7MPOC (Mar 16, 2004)

Be careful if you are resigning, there is a big lay off list that has to be ahered to before you get reinstated which could leave you unemployed for a while. Also, with this states financial situation you may want to think about going to another department because you could find yourself laid off. You must stay at the new department 3 years to regain your original seniority date through civil service.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

roche said:


> what recourse do I have if I've been denied a lateral transfer to another dept


For what its worth...stand fast, you have a job so don't jeopardize that. The grass always appears greener, but the same b.s. exists in every department, just at different times and to different degrees. Sit back and wait...you've got 32 years to transfer if it really sucks that bad where you are.


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## irish937 (Sep 13, 2005)

If the department you are trying to go to is still willing to pick you up, then you can resign (old PD) and be reinstated (new PD) the same day. Your civil service status is good for five years. You are not an indentured servant. However, like someone else said they have to go through the layoff list first. If you go that route, you might be swinging for a while. Good luck.


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## dgold127 (Feb 3, 2008)

Be careful! Civil Service can be tricky. Don't make any decisions based on information received from this post. You should definitely consult with an experienced civil service attorney before you do anything. 

My 2 cents (that's all it's worth)...I wouldn't be resigning from ANY full-time job with benefits in this economy. :2c:


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## Sgt K (Mar 31, 2004)

Call Attorney Brian Simoneau at 1-508-881-1119 if you have a question about it. His website is www.policelaborlaw.com. He can guide you, it's what he does and he's very good at it!

Secondly, there needs to be a mutually signed agreement between two civil service departments in order for you to go over without losing any of your civil service time. As you found out, if one of the appointing authoritys, in your case, the mayor, refuses to sign, a lateral cannot take place.

If you were to "resign" and the new agency is civil service, you'd be considered a "new hire". In order for you to be hired as a "new hire", you'd have to come off of a current certified civil service list in that community. The agency would have to send out cards, including cards to the individuals on the current layed off list, and the process would go from there.

Please be very careful in what you do in this situation and seek out Attorney Simoneau or other counsel before you "resign". Lastly, do not use this site as your sole source of information.

As always, stay healthy and safe, respectfully,


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

The dept I'm thinking about transferring to already did the background check on me as they already went off the re-hire list with no takers.

If I do get re-instated how does that work as getting my civil service time back is it 3 years as it is for a lateral transfer or is it something different?


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

I'm trying to transfer to Leominster but Fitchburg is denying the transfer


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## irish937 (Sep 13, 2005)

With all due respect to other posters, you will not lose your civil service time any more or longer than if you were a transfer. It is three years and it is only for layoffs. There are situations were it could be longer (separation from service), but not in this case. If Leominster still wants you and they are willing to take you as a reinstatement it can still happen. I've been a lateral and seen reinstatements. Wong cannot stop you from resigning and has no overt control over Leominster reinstating you. That said, the cities are bordering and the mayors probably have to see each other and conduct business on a regular basis. Mazzarella might not want to "ruffle" her feathers. If that happens, then I don't know of any recourse. I would not call civil service because you will get a different answer depending on whom you speak with regarding this matter. I would contact an attorney who specializes in civil service law.


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

do you know of any city/town that has done this recently? Your right about civil service as I've called them a few times & got different answers each time. I also contacted civil service attorneys but they don't return calls.

any help appreciated,
thanks


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

Alan Mcdonald, Lamont Mcdonald @ Canzoneri,Southborough Ma spelling might be a bit off ).....give him a call.


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## irish937 (Sep 13, 2005)

roche, check your PMs.


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

I received word from civil service that they no longer accept resigns/reinstatements to other departments as they referenced O'Toole vs HRD as the reason, which seems totally different from my situation as I'm looking to go from one civil service job to another civil service job. They said you could ONLY resign & get re-instated by your original dept.

Does anyone know of any other options or appeals I can do? I'm still waiting to hear back from civil service attorneys.


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## irish937 (Sep 13, 2005)

That must be very new. I know someone here (this board) who was on my department and resigned. That person was just picked up by another civil service PD. Last year, I think. Again, I would not trust what someone on the phone at civil service says. In order for that to be correct, I'm pretty sure they would have to ammend the corresponding section in chapter 31. Your civil service rights are spelled out in the law. Maybe it happened. I'm not familiar with the O'Toole case. I don't see how civil service can override specific wording in the statute.


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

the civil service case was decided on Sept 2008. It just came out. Here's the web site for the O'Toole case--again, it doesn't seem like it pertains to me though.
www.mass.gov/csc/csc_cases/otoolejohn1.pdf


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## NEPS (Aug 29, 2006)

HRD is basing their advice to you, I think, on the following language from page 8 of this O'Toole decision: "The Commission agrees with HRD that reinstatement rights under Section 46 should be construed narrowly and confined to apply only within the same 'appointing authority'."

Contrary to the practice that has, I have heard, gone on before, the reinstatement rights now are limited to the appointing authority. You quit your police officer job with the Town of East Baumfuque then, one year later, petition the appointing authority (say, the selectmen) to reinstate you to the EBPD -- this can be done. Ask to be "reinstated" to the PD in the Town of West Baumfuque -- this cannot be done because the selectmen in West Baumfuque are not the same appointing authority that originally appointed you.

But the advice of those on this forum who have said only an attorney who practices civil service law can give you trustworthy advice is correct. I have heard of the two attorneys mentioned in this thread -- met one of them, in fact -- and both offices have a good reputation. Keep calling but, if you want advice, be prepared to pay.


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## roche (Nov 11, 2008)

*time after a civil service list has been called*

I was wondering if anyone knows how long a potential lateral transfer (civil service to civil service) has to wait or is still eligible to transfer if a civil service list has been requested.

I heard it takes approx 2 weeks to get the list, then send the cards out, get the cards back, background checks, academies, etc.

What part of the process will I no longer be considered or eligible? I'm not holding my breath because I think the mayor will still refuse me to transfer.

Wishful thinking, that's all


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

roche you have a thread going asking your questions,there is no need to start new threads ask them here


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## Macop (May 2, 2002)

My, My you are a hostile one arnt you, must be that admin power you have. Good substitute for something you couldnt get in real life huh, Harrigan?


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Macop said:


> My, My you are a hostile one arnt you, must be that admin power you have. Good substitute for something you couldnt get in real life huh, Harrigan?


Why don't you learn to mind you own business ??


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