# certification for lidar operators in Massachusetts



## Guest (Mar 16, 2008)

Hello, 

I was wondering if it is required under Massachusetts law for police officers to be certified to operate LIDAR units in order for their results to be admissible in court or at a clerk magistrate's hearing? 

If not, what type of training is undergone by LIDAR operators before they use the unit in the field?

Thank you for your information.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Fire at will!


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

angrysquirrel said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if it is required under Massachusetts law for police officers to be certified to operate LIDAR units in order for their results to be admissible in court or at a clerk magistrate's hearing?
> 
> ...


No, we just grab it and aim the laser at the car and we get a speed reading in the little window. That's good enough for court. We calibrate it by hitting airplanes with the laser at any airport once a month.


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## KEVDEMT (Feb 20, 2008)

aaawww, did someone get a ticket???????


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

j809 said:


> We calibrate it by hitting airplanes with the laser at any airport once a month.


And that's where the loophole comes in. Some departments do not have access to an airport in their area and thus *the tests are not done*.

That's a known fact...


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## billb (Jul 9, 2007)

Did you get stopped at night? If not contest it.. they don't work during the day. Also... make them show you their FCC license... it will get thrown out if they don't have it.


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## Guest (Mar 16, 2008)

Thanks for the responses. Could someone please provide me with an accurate answer to my question?


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## Mikey682 (May 2, 2002)

It is a Massachusetts law that the police car have some sort of lighting activated at the time LIDAR or RADAR is being utilized. This includes headlights. If this isn't the case, bring it up the Magistrates hearing. Alot of cops do this without lights on so the motorists dont see them until it's too late.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

I dont know what these guys had to do but I had to spend 5 weeks with a certified LIDAR agent who taught me how to use the equipment. Here's a video (its a known fact that the magistrate has this video and will refer to it when ruling on a LIDAR cite):
http://media.putfile.com/Trucker-gets-tagged-on-buisness-loop75-k-band-63

:lol:


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2008)

What's LIDAR, and why would anyone want to use it in "a field" ??????



Gil said:


> Fire at will!


SHOT OUT !!!


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2008)

MM1799 said:


> I dont know what these guys had to do but I had to spend 5 weeks with a certified LIDAR agent who taught me how to use the equipment. Here's a video (its a known fact that the magistrate has this video and will refer to it when ruling on a LIDAR cite):
> 
> :lol:


Thank you for that video. Really useful to see the unit in action. Are you an officer in Massachusetts? Are you an officer in a municipality or are you with the state police?

I haven't been able to find anything in either the massachusetts general laws or the code of massachusetts regulations on the issue of certification.

I'm thinking the situation is that an officer does not need to be certified to operate a LIDAR unit in Massachusetts. However, the failure of an officer to become a certified LIDAR operator would go to the weight of the evidence as to proper operation of the unit on the date in question.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

angrysquirrel said:


> Hello,
> 
> I was wondering if it is required under Massachusetts law for police officers to be certified to operate LIDAR units in order for their results to be admissible in court or at a clerk magistrate's hearing?
> 
> ...


There is no MGL regarding officers being certified to use LIDAR (light detection and ranging) or RADAR. The training takes place at the academy, some departments may have additional training tho it is not required. Officers are not required to know the inner workings of the LIDAR or RADAR to use it. It doesn't require that much training to turn the unit on, take aim and pull the trigger to lock in your speed.

LIDAR for most is the preferred method of recording speed due to it's accuracy especially in congested traffic conditions. Unlike radar, the more widely recognized speed measurement tool, lidar allows for very specific target acquisition when attempting to determine the speed of a particular vehicle on a crowded roadway.

Lidar uses a time-of-flight method for taking measurements to determine the target vehicle's speed. When a pulse is transmitted, the timer starts, and when that pulse hits its target and returns, the timer stops. The calculation of distance traveled over time is computed to determine speed. In many respects, this sort of technology may not sound like anything new. After all, we've been using radar in a similar fashion for years. The difference lies in the type and shape of the pulse being transmitted.

Lidar utilizes laser technology, allowing for superior target acquisition in high-volume traffic areas. According to Fors, "Laser systems are the most accurate means of providing traffic and speed analysis compared to other systems. A laser can pinpoint one vehicle in a group while radar can't. A laser beam is a mere 18 inches wide at 500 feet compared to a radar beam's width of some 150 feet." In congested traffic areas, an officer can very effectively use lidar to pick out a specific target, site it and read its speed without any concern for interference from other close-by targets.

Lidar systems require a standard "once-over" inspection by the officer prior to each deployment, internal system checks are done automatically, and no calibration is required. This is a great time savings for the officer or technician assigned the job of keeping maintenance records on any speed enforcement devices.

http://www.stalkerradar.com/law_lidar.shtml

Provided from own knowledge and various sources...



angrysquirrel said:


> I'm thinking the situation is that an officer does not need to be certified to operate a LIDAR unit in Massachusetts. However, the failure of an officer to become a certified LIDAR operator would go to the weight of the evidence as to proper operation of the unit on the date in question.


Certified by who? The company selling the units? The academy, the state? I'm not certified to drive a car, I was taught a long time ago and that works fine.

I'm not certified in handcuffing, once again I was taught once and that seems to do the trick.

Your just looking for a loop hole to get out of paying a citation you know deep down that you truly deserve. Now your just going to try to make the officer look like an uneducated ass to serve your own needs.

You sir are a jackass! Be a man, own up to the fact that you screwed up and pay your fine.

In all honesty I think you would be better off admitting your error and asking for a break instead of walking into court and attempting to question the officers ability to use a piece of equipment that he has been trained to use, most likely uses on a daily basis and has been accepted by the courts as an accurate means of detecting a vehicles speed.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)




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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

"Splash" !


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2008)

Gil said:


> There is no MGL regarding officers being certified to use LIDAR (light detection and ranging) or RADAR. The training takes place at the academy, some departments may have additional training tho it is not required. Officers are not required to know the inner workings of the LIDAR or RADAR to use it. It doesn't require that much training to turn the unit on, take aim and pull the trigger to lock in your speed.
> 
> LIDAR for most is the preferred method of recording speed due to it's accuracy especially in congested traffic conditions. Unlike radar, the more widely recognized speed measurement tool, lidar allows for very specific target acquisition when attempting to determine the speed of a particular vehicle on a crowded roadway.
> 
> ...


Hi Gil,

Thank you for that informative post about the operation of LIDAR. So from your knowlege base, I take it there is no such certification under the Mass. Gen. Laws or the C.M.R.'s. However, there is no need to call me names or jumping to conclusions as to why I am asking for this information. I do not owe a fine to anyone. By the way, you are certified by the commonwealth of massachusetts to drive a car. It is called a driver's license. Anyway, thanks again for the information!


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

angrysquirrel said:


> Hi Gil,
> 
> Thank you for that informative post about the operation of LIDAR. So from your knowlege base, I take it there is no such certification under the Mass. Gen. Laws or the C.M.R.'s. However, there is no need to call me names or jumping to conclusions as to why I am asking for this information. I do not owe a fine to anyone. By the way, you are certified by the commonwealth of massachusetts to drive a car. It is called a driver's license. Anyway, thanks again for the information!


You are such a wealth of knowledge --> Not


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

angrysquirrel said:


> Hi Gil,
> 
> Thank you for that informative post about the operation of LIDAR. So from your knowlege base, I take it there is no such certification under the Mass. Gen. Laws or the C.M.R.'s. However, there is no need to call me names or jumping to conclusions as to why I am asking for this information. I do not owe a fine to anyone. By the way, you are certified by the commonwealth of massachusetts to drive a car. It is called a driver's license. Anyway, thanks again for the information!


Sorry for my lack of clarification, car vs cruiser, the lidar is similar to the radar. Officers are instructed on the use of both while in the academy and upon the completion of the academy they do get a certificate so yes I guess we are certified to use lidar.

I also apologize for lumping you in with the rest of the idiots that come here looking for ways to get out of speeding ticket. Maybe your just trying to assist one of those idiots.


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