# Massachusetts Question 3 [3% Sales Tax Relief Act]



## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Can we afford to vote yes?

Massachusetts Question 3, filed under the name, the 3% Sales Tax Relief Act, will appear on the November 2, 2010 ballot in the state of Massachusetts as an initiated state statute. The measure, if enacted by voters, would reduce the state sales tax rate from 6.25 to 3 percent. The measure is being sponsored by the Alliance to Roll Back Taxes headed by Carla Howell. The measure would be enacted into a law 30 days after the election if approved by voters. The measure was filed with the Massachusetts Secretary of State in September 2009

As much as I would like to have that estimated $680 bucks in my pocket at the end of the year i just don't see how we can do this and not risk losing funding for public safety.

I would be happy and less concerned if they just dropped it back to 5%


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Sales tax money has very little impact on town budgets. I support it as it is the only way we can make the state house more fiscally responsible and reducing state government.


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## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

No Sales tax at all would be great, but in this state when they reduce one tax or fee something else goes up. 

While 3 is a low number we will pay for it on the other end of something. I would say a reduction back to 5 would work best as we have been there before and I would hope fees and other taxes would not go up too much on the other end. 

That and 5 is an easy number to calculate as a percentage to know the actual cost of something.


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

I think a 3% sales tax could work if we had an executive and legislative branch that was business oriented and allocated monies for fully funded essential services, but we don't, so I have to go with the 5% option. It's just too bad this isn't on the ballot. 

If the 3% tax passes on the ballot, I can see the legislature reversing it, just like they did with the income tax roll back. These people have no shame whatsoever.


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## GeepNutt (Aug 10, 2005)

I had very intelligent reply all set to go but lost my train of thought with J809's signature pic's....


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

GeepNutt said:


> I had very intelligent reply all set to go but lost my train of thought with J809's signature pic's....


 I have to agree, that is a sweet and distracting sig pic


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Distractions lol


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Since the sales tax hike, the state has brought in less money overall from the sales tax. Any reduction in the sales tax would be good. I think that going down to 3% would attract people at least from RI, CT and NY who wouldn't want to drive to NH and would actually lead to an increase in revenues as people buy more.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

As soon as this started the hacks started trying to scare everyone into thinking it would lead to public safety cuts
hears my cuts
-Aunt Zatubi...outa here
-no help for illegals(welfare, housing , schooling,whatevea)
-10 % ACROSS THE BOARD cut on all social welfare programs
-all legislators cut to 30 grand a year...make the fuckers live under the laws they impose on us


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Speaking of cuts, they gotta stop extending unemployment benefits too for these people that have been out of work for a couple of years. They may not pay well, but there are jobs out there. But, people would rather sit on their ass collecting a check waiting for their dream job to come along all while crying "poor me." Yea, it's too bad you lost your job due to the economy but its time to shit or get off the pot. Instead of being a burden on the system, pay into the system like the rest of us and help this country get back on track. If you have to work two jobs, so be it. Other people are able to do it. I've done it. At least now when you go for an interview for a better job down the line, you can show that you actually did something. As long as these unemployment benefits keep getting renewed, there isn't any incentive for these people to get off the government's tit.


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

justanotherparatrooper said:


> -all legislators cut to 30 grand a year...make the fuckers live under the laws they impose on us


Make that 20 grand and make the positions part time with no retirements. Make them work real jobs too. We don't need, nor can we afford full time legislators.


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## jedediah1 (Jun 18, 2009)

there should be a law making the price you see the price you pay, let the computers worry about tax rates...if a mcnasty costs $1, it should cost $1 and not $1.625 or $1.05 or $1.03! 

but until then, put it back to 5% or 3% or 0%


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

jedediah1 said:


> there should be a law making the price you see the price you pay, let the computers worry about tax rates...if a *mcnasty* costs $1, it should cost $1 and not $1.625 or $1.05 or $1.03!
> 
> but until then, put it back to 5% or 3% or 0%


 Man you gotta quit them hookas in Dorchesta


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

The issue as I see it is that if this passes the state will make cuts--not the ones they need to make, but ones that essentially punish the people for voting the way they did so that they support a reinstatement. Yeah, cops, firefighters, and teachers aren't the only ones on the state payroll, but that's who gets cut first (and local aid) so that they can get the people to start screaming "We were wrong! Tax us more!"

Perhaps voting yes is making the best of horrible options. But as it relates to our jobs, buckle up--this ride ain't gonna be much fun.


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## Lost (Dec 19, 2006)

I voted no.

I said it before- this state is unreal. Rest assured, cutting the tax rate would mean layoffs and cutbacks to essential services, but hacks and high earners will remain on the books. 

Question is, how many cops do you have to layoff at 3% tax rate to ensure that public assistance sees no cuts or reforms?


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## Sgt.Joe Friday (May 7, 2009)

I have one question how does NH do it with no state sales tax ??


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

> I have one question how does NH do it with no state sales tax ??


Super high property taxes and two-lane highways. And before anyone asks, I spent a lot of years in NH.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Boston tried to reel in Mayor Kevin White with prop 2 1/2 and all he did was lay off cops and fire fighters.

these weasels will never cut their own budget. 

torches and pitch forks are the only answer now :tounge_smile:


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Sgt.Joe Friday said:


> I have one question how does NH do it with no state sales tax ??


Our legislators are paid *one dollar* a year so they have to have a real source of income and live under the laws they pass.


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## SinePari (Aug 15, 2004)

Sgt.Joe Friday said:


> I have one question how does NH do it with no state sales tax ??


Property owners get shellacked for everything on the state menu.

Forget the MA sales tax rollback. It's time to institute an initiative to cut the legislature to part-time salaries, no vesting into the pension, and cut all of their stipends for the so-called work they do.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

True enough Sine but our overall tax burden is still much lower then Ma and most other states. Doesnt hurt that our entire population is less then the population of Boston. buisiness owners also get nailed on the profits tax.
We also encourage our nieghbors to buy alcohol and high priced items here tax free


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## Lost (Dec 19, 2006)

Wolfman said:


> How many cops got hired after the tax rate went up from 5%?
> 
> Look through the smokescreen and call the bluff. They won't shoot the dog.


That's common sense talking. Reality is, they have no interest in cops, firemen or anyone else that doesn't benefit them. No one get reelected on "I hired more cops," so there is no reason to hire any, shy of a dramatic rise in the crime rate.

But, laying off cops and firemen gets bad press. That way, they can demonstrate the need for more funding (that will, inevitably, not go to rehiring cops and firemen).



mtc said:


> I agree with Obie - they'll cut the stuff we need, NEVER the shit we don't.
> 
> Cut housing vouchers for anything over a 2 bedroom apartment.
> 
> There's no NEED to support lazy assed peoples lifestyles - make them work for all those extra babies they THINK they need.


I agree 1000%.



Killjoy said:


> Super high property taxes and two-lane highways. And before anyone asks, I spent a lot of years in NH.


My NH property taxes were not that bad. I think it's more about efficiency in government (the EZPass lane came in ahead of schedule and under budget- ever heard those terms in a MA highway project???)



pahapoika said:


> Boston tried to reel in Mayor Kevin White with prop 2 1/2 and all he did was lay off cops and fire fighters.
> 
> these weasels will never cut their own budget.
> 
> torches and pitch forks are the only answer now :tounge_smile:


Yup. Public assistance, new curtains and hacks first. Safety, infrastructure and services last.


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## SinePari (Aug 15, 2004)

Lost said:


> My NH property taxes were not that bad. I think it's more about efficiency in government (the EZPass lane came in ahead of schedule and under budget- ever heard those terms in a MA highway project???)


I believe the cost of a transponder in NH was about $4 in the beginning. The same exact company sold them on the Mass Turnpike for around $27, including transponders sold to Troopers for their state-issued vehicle.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Voting to rollback the sales tax is a band-aid, but its a much needed band-aid. To stop the bleeding you need to throw the bums out. Get rid of the Patricks, the Kerry's, and the Franks. Tell your dipshit unions to stop supporting the democrats!!! We need to clean house in this state, and this country. But the tax rollback is a start. If you think you're going to save your job by giving them more money, well I think you're sorely mistaken.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Tax cuts = increased revenue. Reagan proved it. Carry on....


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

The only way to get the change you guys want is through a change of elected representation. Prop 2 1/2 caused BPD to lose a third of it's work force. I'm all for the desired result you guys are looking for, but this isn't the mechanism to do it.

The line seems to be "send our elected officials a message". News flash: we need new elected officials.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Prop 2 1/2 was the motivation cited by the politicians, but the proposition itself wasn't at fault it was scapegoated. Yes, the politicians need to be thrown out. The unions need to stop supporting these assholes, and the people in the unions need to speak up..LOUDLY. Vote to roll back the sales/property/income/whatever taxes, even if the politicans refuse our voice and our message is on record and one day there will be reconcilliation.


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

The only thing I like about the sales tax is that it's one of the few taxes that will be paid by people who spend their lives feeding off the system. Unless they drive to NH, the leeches are paying sales tax on their big screen tv's, etc. I would rather see a roll back in income & property taxes. Then at least, the working people could keep a few more dollars and all the folks who are working off the books and collecting benefits would still have to pay up.


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2010)

The sales tax went up to 7% here in Brockton today............. Way to drive the masses to the WalMart in Abington instead !!! heh heh


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

Wolfman said:


> Which almost sounds good, until you consider that the money they're spending to feed off the system is coming from...our taxes. Kind of like "empty calories", it's a diversion of funds that could be put to much better and more productive use instead of making a 4th generation welfare clan feel better about themselves.
> 
> 
> > I'll have to admit you have a point there. I just figure it's pretty much the only tax the leeches pay. I wouldn't suppose you could get the boobs on Beacon Hill/Capitol Hill to understand your "empty calories" theory. We could tell them that it ties into the no "empty calories" kick that is the basis for telling us what we should & shouldn't eat.


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## firefighter39 (Apr 10, 2006)

Killjoy said:


> Super high property taxes and two-lane highways. And before anyone asks, I spent a lot of years in NH.


I wuld much rather pay a super high property tax to MY TOWN. I have no problems with prop 2 1/2 overrides, at least that money is going into MY police, fire, schools. What I can't stand is that my state tax money is going to local aid of cities like Lowell, Lawrence etc... where the state local aid accounts for almost 50% of the city revenue.

Frankly, I don't give a shit what happens in these other cities and towns. Keep my local property tax and raise it for my police, schools, fire. Let these other cities raise there property taxes and do the same. The towns where I live and work get less than 4% of their operating budgets from the state.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Unions Pump $1.3M Into MA Sales Tax Cut Fight*

BOSTON (AP) ― 








 
(File Image) WBZ

*Related Stories*


Poll: Voters Split On Sales Tax Cut
(9/27/2010) 
Mass. Fiscal Watchdog Warns Against Sales Tax Cut
(9/22/2010)
Curious About The Sales Tax Ballot Question
(9/14/2010)
Unions have pumped more than $1.3 million into the fight against a statewide ballot question designed to lower Massachusetts sales tax rate from 6.25 percent to 3 percent.

The bulk of the money has come from teachers unions, including more than $560,000 from the Massachusetts Teachers Association, the state's largest teachers union, and another half million dollars from the National Education Association.

The American Federation of Teachers, a smaller union, has chipped in more than $50,000. A non-teacher union, the Service Employees International Union, contributed $150,000 to the campaign.

A spokesman for the group, the Massachusetts Coalition for Our Communities, said the coalition hopes to raise even more to launch television ads before Election Day.

Full Story:
Unions Pump $1.3M Into MA Sales Tax Cut Fight - wbztv.com


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

kwflatbed said:


> Unions have pumped more than $1.3 million into the fight against a statewide ballot question designed to lower Massachusetts sales tax rate from 6.25 percent to 3 percent.


 Yep, I have a feeling this is only going to help the cause to lower the sales tax, provided of course, people are paying attention.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

I have a feeling this is going to happen people


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

j809 said:


> I have a feeling this _is going to be passed by the voters, but the legislature will never enact it_


FIFY


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## rg1283 (Sep 14, 2005)

My grandfather actually made a poor argument for cutting the sales tax. He said back in the Prop 2 1/2 days people said the streets wouldn't be plowed and no Police and Fire and that didn't happened. He says the same thing would happen if the sales tax was cut. He must have never heard about what happened in Boston as an example. 

Towns lost a lot of Police Officers and Fire Fighters. A lot of Police Positions were never gained back until recently and by that point retirements and more budget cuts cut them even more.

This would be a different story if this sales tax passes. Not only Town Services but State Services would be destroyed like the towns were.

Its not like the politicians are cutting million dollar pregnancy prevention programs and other bull shit (like putting "new" ornate looking street lights in the abandoned down town) as the local police barely get by.

Police Departments are expensive to run they are 24/7 along with other things like DOC/DMH, etc. 

As the Public Safety Program get cuts.. Rest assured Legal Immigrant Healthcare will be funded as the elderly get screwed with lower elder services etc. It is plain wrong to screw over the people who worked hard so was could live a better life.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Cut the taxes, then vote out the bums and vote in the guys that will make the cuts from the do-nothing social probems. 
(That means no more Patrick, Frank, and Kerry for the union guys :tounge_smile


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Boston lost about 250 officers (in addition to a couple hundred firefighters), and cost the city tons of money in legal fees as a number of the layoffs were appealed all the way to the United States Supreme Court (Firefighters v. Boston Chapter, NAACP, U.S. Supreme Court Case Summary & Oral Argument).

One argument that I hear from politicians on both sides of the aisle is that they would let the citizens pass the referendum and then up the sales tax to 5%....way to promote disrespect for the will of the people. I would actually prefer the 5%, but the only mechanism I agree with to get there is a referendum to 5% or a legislative reversal. What pisses me off is that Carla Howell was so intent on making a political statement, she upped the anti with her 3% proposal instead of a pragmatic approach back to 5%.


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## TRPDiesel (Nov 28, 2008)

I vote yes. Where does it end? When do we get a tax reduction? Property values are in the toilet yet tax assessments are bloated. Excise tax, income tax property tax, sales tax, capital gains tax. WTF tax my pay, tax what I buy and tax what I have. The people are getting pissed, me included. We pay more in health care, no raises, and some have had reduction in pay. How bad does it have to get before people stop being complacent. 
I am just a road guy so that might mean that I am not the sharpest tool in the shed-but the argument about the tax reduction bringing in out of state consumers and keep Massholes from heading to NH makes sense to me. Also I am not sure how true it is and I have not heard a counterargument but the roll back would reflect a 5 percent cut in budget based on current spending. I don't think that warrants the scare tactics that people are using and buying into.
My city passed a meal tax, I now go the other way to get my grinder out of principle. It has some great eats but I am sick of feeding the beast. It is a mute point anyhow cause the aholes on the hill won't let it pass.


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