# Would you enforce spent shell casing?



## Mark3209 (Sep 12, 2016)

Just curious, would you arrest someone for a spent shell casing with no license?

Grew up in MA moved to NH few years ago, just insane to think you can be arrested for a spent shell case, never realized how ridiculous MA gun laws were until I moved up here.


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

I spend most of my time and energy enforcing MGL C.266 s.131, so probably not.


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Mark3209 said:


> Just curious, would you arrest someone for a spent shell casing with no license?
> 
> Grew up in MA moved to NH few years ago, just insane to think you can be arrested for a spent shell case, never realized how ridiculous MA gun laws were until I moved up here.


What ch./sec. is that ? Never heard of it.


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## Mark3209 (Sep 12, 2016)

Massachusetts General Laws Chapter 269, Section 10(h) criminalizes the unlawful possession of ammunition. The crime of Unlawful Possession of Ammunition carries a penalty of up to 2 years in jail or House of Corrections.

In order to be convicted of the crime of Unlawful Possession of Ammunition, the prosecutor must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt:

That the defendant possess an item;
That item meets the legal definition of "ammunition"; and
That the defendant knew that he possessed that ammunition.
"Ammunition" is defined under Massachusetts law as cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Has to be a live round capable of being fired. A shell casing is just a piece of brass=no crime .


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Treehouse413 said:


> Has to be a live round capable of being fired. A shell casing is just a piece of brass=no crime .


Incorrect. They qualify as ammunition. A "firearm" has to be capable of being fired.


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

I maybe wrong but forgive me I'm at the garden watching the Bruins and slightly drunk reading this in between periods . I do know you don't need a fid or ltc to possess black powder but need one to purchase it . MA laws are screwey!!!!


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## JD02124 (Sep 20, 2014)

Mark3209 said:


> Just curious, would you arrest someone for a spent shell casing with no license?
> 
> Grew up in MA moved to NH few years ago, just insane to think you can be arrested for a spent shell case, never realized how ridiculous MA gun laws were until I moved up here.


Where did you get your information? My department had an issue not too long ago with spent shell casings no arrests were made.


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## Sgt Jack (Aug 17, 2003)

Treehouse413 said:


> I maybe wrong but forgive me I'm at the garden watching the Bruins and slightly drunk reading this in between periods . I do know you don't need a fid or ltc to possess black powder but need one to purchase it . MA laws are screwey!!!!


 That was a great game!!! To the OP I've been doing this for awhile, not as long some but longer than others here in Mass. What is this spent casing law that you speak of????


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Bloodhound said:


> Incorrect. They qualify as ammunition. A "firearm" has to be capable of being fired.


Ok games done and I looked this up quick. This was at the very bottom of 269 10h.
(o) For purposes of this section, ''loaded'' shall mean that ammunition is contained in the weapon or within a feeding device attached thereto.

For purposes of this section, ''ammunition'' shall mean cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.

That's defining what the ammunition is. No way you can be arrested for a spent shell casing. You can buy them w out fid or ltc unlike ammunition itself you need a fid/ltc.


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## Mark3209 (Sep 12, 2016)

Treehouse413 said:


> Ok games done and I looked this up quick. This was at the very bottom of 269 10h.
> (o) For purposes of this section, ''loaded'' shall mean that ammunition is contained in the weapon or within a feeding device attached thereto.
> 
> For purposes of this section, ''ammunition'' shall mean cartridges or cartridge cases, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.
> ...


Thanks, just seen articles online, just look up empty shell casing illegal in MA, on google


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Treehouse413 said:


> For purposes of this section, ''ammunition'' shall mean cartridges or _*cartridge cases*_, primers (igniter), bullets or propellant powder designed for use in any firearm, rifle or shotgun.
> 
> That's defining what the ammunition is. No way you can be arrested for a spent shell casing. You can buy them w out fid or ltc unlike ammunition itself you need a fid/ltc.


Yes you can. Should anyone ever be charged with this? Probably not. But it is an option.


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## k12kop (May 24, 2005)

I can see a loaded wheel gun with a spent shell under the pin, But a spent shell in the pocket or hanging from a chain? Kinda making a stretch for a pinch.


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

"kinda making it a stretch" does not equal "legal." The law says cartridge cases are illegal without a permit. 
Would you have to run into an asshole cop to get charged? Yeah. Do they exist? Yeah.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

k12kop said:


> I can see a loaded wheel gun with a spent shell under the pin, But a spent shell in the pocket or hanging from a chain? Kinda making a stretch for a pinch.


 Good point !
Wouldn't this law make everyone that had a novelty keychain a criminal ?


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## USAF3424 (Mar 18, 2008)

It has been used in Boston. They reference the case in the academy I just can't remember the particulars. I want to say it was gang unit arrest in Roxbury or Mattapan.


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

pahapoika said:


> Good point !
> Wouldn't this law make everyone that had a novelty keychain a criminal ?


Which is the point John Scheft makes in his lecture on the subject. Yes it does. Which is stupid, but true.


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

I stand corrected.


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

Solution to all of this:

Move to NH. 

Mass gun laws are fuckin ABSURD.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Frankly, there are a number of times (here and there) where I scratch my head and wonder why a person is being charged criminally instead of a) being given a good talking to (no one gets a boot in the ass these days); b) isn't simply told, "please don't do this again. You'll make me work over bullshit."; c) ignores it.

There are CRIMES, crimes and 'crimes'. Lets concentrate on the first two and stop giving in to those lunatics who make a HUGE fuss of nothing, even if it IS technically a 'crime'. And yeah, the shell casing thing is a prime example.

When I was a kid, my family visited the FBI HQ and on the tour we were given casings from tommy guns. Had I brought them to school then, I'd have heard, "WOW, that's so cool!" or something to that effect. Now a days, I'd hear, "Son, you're under arrest." by someone who is too quick to cave into the left who fear their own shadows. Hell, my DAD who was a local cop would on occasion bring home used targets and maybe some casings. Would that, in this day and age make him an accessory?

LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS!


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Absolutely right Kilvinsky. When I was in 5th grade (in the 80's) I brought a live .38 round to school for show and tell. It was leftover from evidence that my grandfather used as a lawyer in a trial. The teacher thought it was really cool. These days it would result in a lockdown.


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