# PAT Test



## John J

At the MA PAT test, Do you have to climb over a five foot wall or a six foot wall?
Thanks.


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## WaterPistola

should be on the Mass CS website and video.


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## JaneDoe

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=hrdtopic&L=2&L0=Home&L1=Civil+Service&sid=Ehrdhttp://www.mass.gov/?pageID=hrdterm...=terminalcontent&f=videos_cs_videos&csid=Ehrd


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## Goose

The wall is only something like 4 feet now...

If you're lucky, you get a warning not to hurdle it, as one on the instructors for the PAT tells you that people in the past have tried to do it, but some poor sod always ends up catching their foot on it and ends up doing a faceplant on the other side.


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## WaterPistola

yeah i dont suggest hurdling a 4 foot wall unless you are an NBA superstar


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## misconceived

If you've ever been out there then you know that it's not the wall you have to worry about.... it's the dirty ass floor by the cones. :wink:


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## Hawgcop15

Didn't you hear?...they give you a chainsaw now and then you cut an opening on the wall and crawl through. :---)


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## COto50

The wall is 6ft tall. Listen to misconceived, worry more about your footing on the corners and the cones and less about the wall. The three 2x4s nailed to the side like a ladder will help you get over it.


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## misconceived

Those damn 2x4s did nothing but take the skin off my shin.


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## bean6180

How Challenging is the PAT overall? I watched the video and it doensn't look deadly, but it can be misleading... definitely signing up for one of the practice tests.


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## Guest

Its really not that bad, as long as you're somewhat in shape. Just listen to what they tell you and they'll pretty much guide you through the entire thing. The heavy bags can be a little tricky if you don't do it like they tell you. Other than that, try and find some sneakers that have super glue on the bottom because that floor is like a hockey rink.


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## 94c

bean6180 said:


> How Challenging is the PAT overall? I watched the video and it *doensn't look deadly*, but it can be misleading... definitely signing up for one of the practice tests.


They removed the alligator pit years ago because of all the lawsuits.


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## NBPD

Those have to be the worst floors I have ever ran on. Use the water machine for your sneakers before you go.. it will help with a little bit of grip. The air quality is also junk as well.


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## Strideright

Doesn't matter...they built a ladder on the back side. Next, they will be lifting you over. What has this state come too!


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## bean6180

94c said:


> They removed the alligator pit years ago because of all the lawsuits.


Dang... I was hoping for some excitement! Definitely going on the 3rd to practice. Thanks for the feedback. I'll wear my climbing shoes-they should help with traction.


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## policelaborlaw.com

In response to a lawsuit I recently filed against the Human Resources Division, HRD has revised their Regulations for the Initial Medical and Physical Fitness Standards for Municipal Public Safety Personnel. The revisions focused on the diabetes mellitus category under the endocrine and metabolic system for police officer candidates. I successfully challenged the rule that automatically disqualified candidates who used insulin pumps. Now, candidates who use insulin pumps will be evaluated on a case-by case basis. You can download the new Medical Regulations for Initial and Physical Fitness Standards Tests for Municipal Public Safety Personnel from the News & Information section of Policelaborlaw.com or from the HRD Website. 

Brian


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## devilcop76

The air in there was horrible....I thought I had the Black Lung after I left the test


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## emerlad

Has there always been an uncorrected eye standard?


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## Badge

Strideright said:


> Doesn't matter...they built a ladder on the back side. Next, they will be lifting you over. What has this state come too!


I don't want someone backing me up on the street that couldn't hop the wall without the steps. Prior to becoming full time I did the PAT on 3 separate occasions, and passed each one without steps. Lowering of standards can only lead to inadequate police officers.

Like Strideright said, they will continue to lower the standards so that anyone can become a police officer. Give them 6 months and a couple more law suits it will be "If you don't like the obstacle, just walk around it and continue on to the next one." :-D


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## SargeLorenzo

I took it, those floors do suck , extremely slippery. One guy busted his ass around the cones, lucky for him it was just his practice. The bags were easier to work than I expected and the dummy was heavier than expected. The majority of the females had trouble with the handcuffing simulator and lost time struggling with that, gotta work on that upper body strength.


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## Macop

Why, like bagde said, a few more law suits and you can just walk around it.


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## SolObsession

So clarify something please ... there are no pushups, situps, sit and reach, etc in this PAT, just the obstacle course, handcuffing, bag pull and dummy drag?


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## mcpd704

Yeah, compared to other states, it is pretty easy. I took it a few years back and I didnt have any problems at all with it, I know that a lot of females had trouble with the wall (5ft?) but I heard that they installed some sort of steps or something on the back to help them climb over it. I am going to be taking it again soon for a different dept and I am not overly concerned about it.


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## afd414

tip: you have to crawl under a bar after the wall, slow down a little i hit it a little to fast and slipped up in the dust on the floor, resulting in smashing my left eyebrow against the floor.


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## mikeyv7712

anyone for the Boston class starting in May get scheduled for the PAT yet?


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## misconceived

afd414 said:


> tip: you have to crawl under a bar after the wall, slow down a little i hit it a little to fast and slipped up in the dust on the floor, resulting in smashing my left eyebrow against the floor.


Crawl? I used the dust to my advantage, Superman slide.


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## boysetsfire888

I gotta say this thing looks a little too easy. I have taken several tests in NH and passed everythign wtih ease except the bench press. I have always had a weak bench. I would get so angry because I work out a lot and can move some serious weight. I deadlift 350lbs, squat 250lbs, clean and jerk 175lbs and weigh around 190lbs. I just suck at bench. I have it to the point where next time a need to do it for a test I probably can but this thing is much easier in my opinion. good advice about the floor and whatnot in here, much appreciated. 
They should make the wall higher with a rope to help over (american gladiators style). And walking up and down steps? Really? About how much do the dummies and the heavy bags weigh? Alos how much tension is on the hand cuff simulator? 

Thanks in advance.


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## WaterPistola

listen buddy, you can't bench but you want an american gladiators wall in the test? because in real life there are so many walls with ropes on them... anyway I suggest you work on tris and chest to improve your bench, best of luck to you.


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## boysetsfire888

WaterPistola said:


> listen buddy, you can't bench but you want an american gladiators wall in the test? because in real life there are so many walls with ropes on them... anyway I suggest you work on tris and chest to improve your bench, best of luck to you.


The gladiators thing was mostly a joke. I see what you mean about the rope. I just mean a 4 or 5ft wall seems a little easy for your average person. I do a lot of tricep work, a lot of pullups, dips etc. It is getting better but very slowly.....everything else increases as a much faster pace.


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## AdamJ1984

I understand you situation, I weigh 200-205, and in comparison to the rest of my body, my shoulders and chest lag. They always have, even when I trained for amateur bodybuilding shows. My back, legs, and arms are where they should be. It all comes down to mixing up your routine to stimulate the muscle and having the adrenaline to push the weight. I have seen many people who can bench press a lot of weight, but either they use horrible form or use a lot of tricep extension to get it up. Focus on using your chest, just as you would your lats for pullups. Squats are brutal man, I am only 24 but to say I am getting old is the truth. My back is so busted up that I have to ice myself and put menthol on my back even before I hit the gym. I guess slamming out SLDL's for your first exercise doesn't help. Take care my man.


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## cmagryan

AdamJ1984 said:


> I guess slamming out SLDL's for your first exercise doesn't help.


-I warned you, Snipe! _See!!_


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## kttref

boysetsfire888 said:


> The gladiators thing was mostly a joke. I see what you mean about the rope. I just mean a 4 or 5ft wall seems a little easy for your average person. I do a lot of tricep work, a lot of pullups, dips etc. It is getting better but very slowly.....everything else increases as a much faster pace.


You a hardcore kid?

Regardless, look at this kid: 








http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Poundstone
He's a cop down here in CT...screwed up his bicep recently AND herniated a disk a couple years ago...but he worked to regain all his strength back and is back on the road and back winning shit.

For all those who are worried about the wall...don't be. I'm only slightly over 5' tall and was able to do both a 4ft wooden wall and a 6ft chain link fence no problem (here in CT)...not sure if we have the same handcuff simulator, but if you give psych yourself up for it...it's easy. At least here in CT it's really easy. Use your practice time well. Figure out the best technique. I discovered that going hard to get one arm down and then maintaining that hold and going hard on the other arm was the easiest thing for me.

Nothing trumps practice and determination. Period.


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## SargeLorenzo

The bags are easier to move than they look, it seemed the biggest problem people had was seeing around them to locate the lines on the floor, no biggie. Only some of the women had any trouble with the cuffing simulator. Remember, pull *one* side at a time.


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## boysetsfire888

thanks for the responses. I think the test looks easy as all hell. Now I just need to get a damn card!


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## ride1620

Don't forget your back when it comes to improving your bench. Back is a major muscle when it come so your chesh, basically your whole upper body. That is why you see people with kyphosis..when their front part of their body is all hunched in. They do too much chest and they neglect to work out their back...


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## underdod47

What are the current standards I have heard too many different things, from 38 sit-ups and an 11 min mileand a half (for a 45 year old to boot) to the obstacle course linked too on this thread. My co-ordinator is tough to get ahold of. All I know is Aug 7 I have a "preview" whatever that is and Aug 14 the test. What type of test I have yet to find out. This is for a civil service re-hire in Mass


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## misconceived

No sit-ups, no run, just the obstacle course. 

Keep in mind this is just for the Civil Circus commission. Academies lead to more PT fun.


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## cmagryan

- Mass.gov, then look under Civil Service, Human Resources. Lots of detailed information on the PAT. You can even obtain a video if you research enough.


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## underdod47

Thanks I am a rehire so I do not have to go to the full time academy and all the fun that comes with it, but I have to take all the initial testing and my contacts at the City HR are uncertain what I have to physically. I know for certain I have the preview and test so I think it's just the course. I'll prepare for both though just in case.


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## samadam78

I passed the PAT last week if you have any specific questions pm me....


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## DPDPO

I took my preview today and timed very well. Not to be a basher or anything, all the females made it over the wall that were in my group. The "ladder" on the wall sure did help out some people.


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## Goose

There's a ladder on the wall now? When I did the PAT last summer, the wall was only about six inches higher than a jersey barrier...


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## Guest

Pretty soon, they will have a high speed chairlift that goes straight to the top!


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## Hb13

5-0 said:


> Pretty soon, they will have a high speed chairlift that goes straight to the top!


That or the wall will only be about a foot off the ground.


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## Guest

Hb13 said:


> That or the wall will only be about a foot off the ground.


That would discriminate against the wheelchair bound.


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## Hb13

5-0 said:


> That would discriminate against the wheelchair bound.


:L: true


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## rolyasmatt

The wall has three levels of about 3 inches by 6 feet wood nailed to it so you can get grip on your feet when getting over. 

There was also an elevator next to.


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## BRION24

I can't believe that there is a somewhat serious discussion about the Civil Service PT test. It is an absolute joke. I took it a few years ago and could have passed it powerwalking. I just read the other posts and can't believe that they actually lowered the standards. They were to easy as it is.


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## rolyasmatt

BRION24 said:


> I can't believe that there is a somewhat serious discussion about the Civil Service PT test. It is an absolute joke. I took it a few years ago and could have passed it powerwalking. I just read the other posts and can't believe that they actually lowered the standards. They were to easy as it is.


Not even a powerwalk, you could do a brisk walk and finish on time if you dont fuck any of the stations up, which are also very easy.


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## OfficerObie59

Like someothers have said, I never took the practice and almost fell flat on my grille before realizing the floors felt like a recently Zambonied ice rink. 

I was in halfway decent shape and vaulted over the wall without any help from the "ladder". I kicked off the top of it with my feet like a jackass and almost knocked the whole wall over, causing some deserving vocal disapproval from the test proctor.

That said, on the day I took it back in '05, I saw two failures, both as a result of the wall. Not everyone makes it, and I'd be willing to be there are a number of vets on my job today who couldn't, either. IMO, the test is worthless unless the standard is maintained, which when THAT comes, will be a cold day in hell.


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## Johnny Law

LawMan3 said:


> Mass needs to come into the 21st century and adopt a PT test with something similar to Cooper standards...the current PAT is not even a close predictor as to how an officer will be able to physically perform on the streets
> 
> Two words come to mind...Severely Substandard


It used to be Cooper standards, and it should go back to that as well. And you had to take the test several times during the course of the academy and pass, or you would get one re-test. Failing that you were out. Why they pussified the PT tests is beyond me:-k.


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## rolyasmatt

+1

If anything, you would rather have those footsteps out on a foot pursuit, not in training. stupid.


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## OfficerObie59

LawMan3 said:


> What happens if some asshat hops the fence...


Haha, asshat. That will always be funny.



Johnny Law said:


> It used to be Cooper standards, and it should go back to that as well.


Like I said, I don't believe that any physical standard does any good unless its maintained throughout the career, such as on an age appropiate scale like the Army PT test. So you can meet the standards to graduate the academy, fine, BFD. But what about the other 32 years you're on the job? Those Cooper standards sure did a whole lotta good when you're outta shape 6 months after getting on when you get sent to the midnights we all know are horrible for one's physical fitness.


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## lilmudd89

Hello, I'm new to this forum and am going to be taking the civil service exam in April and was wondering if there are any pointers for the PAT test? I saw someone respond that there was a video of the course you have to run but i can't seem to find it. I'm also going to be aiming for the State Trooper exams and if anyone has information on that as well would be great. Any help is greatly appreciated thanks.


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## Goose

The PAT is easy if you have the running part down. Info is on the HRD website somewhere.

MA doesn't do the PAT at the same time as the exam anyway - that comes later on during the hiring process with the individual agency once they are hiring.


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## lilmudd89

I thank you both very much for your replies and it seems lately a lot of gov stuff is hurry up and wait lol. Well ill just make sure to ace the exam in April and take it from there thank you again.


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## Glock23

LawMan3 said:


> mudd, you'll find mass is a state with a lot of _hurry up and wait_


QFT.
-------------------------------------
To: mudd

The video is here
http://www.mass.gov/Ehrd/docs/zip/pat/police_training.zip

Some tips I can give for the test is to make sure you bring a *MONEY ORDER* for the test (iirc $150). That was my 1st mistake.

Take the practice test and listen to the instructions carefully. I was not able to make it to the practice and it made things a lot harder. Almost failed the trigger pull because of my habit of using two hands.

Go to the bathroom upstairs before hand and get yourself a wet paper towel. Right before your on the line, clean the bottom of your shoes and dry them off. The course is sandy enough to make it feel like your running on marbles.

Maintain a good pace. Don't start sprinting. They can pretty much tell if your going to make it when you have to jump through the window.

Hope that helps a lil


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## BLUE BLOOD

LawMan3 said:


> Mass needs to come into the 21st century and adopt a PT test with something similar to Cooper standards...the current PAT is not even a close predictor as to how an officer will be able to physically perform on the streets
> 
> Two words come to mind...Severely Substandard


Lawman, you are the voice of reason here, my fucking head is about to explode from some of the posts! The cooper standards are the only true test of physical fitness. I did the coopers test for my pre-screen at my academy and also took part in the P.A.T. test at a later date, or phat test as in fat test. It is truly embarrassing that we use this as our test of fitness in this state. If that test is not a cake walk for you please choose another profession. I have seen complete out of shape fat bodies struggle by and pass that test to my disgust. The change came about because certain people could not pass cooper because it was unfair and too hard, thus this abortion P.A.T. test.


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## Johnny Law

BLUE BLOOD said:


> . The change came about because certain people could not pass cooper because it was unfair and too hard, thus this abortion P.A.T. test.


If they couldn't pass the Cooper tests, tough shit. Like I want some fatso running to my aid in a fight, only to vapor lock and hafta have someone pumping on his/her chest.


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## OfficerObie59

I don't think the Cooper standards are necessarily the end-all be-all measure of physical fitness, either. While I'd support standards of a 1.5 mile run, pushups and situps, I think some of the other Cooper tasks like the sit and reach have no relevency to the job. You need some job-related tasks in there--I'd be in favor of keeping the wall without the current aids. Even then, were the Cooper standards still in place, I know some damn good cops who'd never have gotten on the job.

Again, not that I'm saying they're unimportant, but any standard is absolutely pointless unless it's maintained--say you're fit for 6 months after the academy, and then you let yourself go. Doesn't the other 31 1/2 years of career any good.


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## L4G81

Are there any "practice PAT" classes that you can join? I'm interested if I can do the wall right now or after I hit the gym hard for two months....I'm not out of shape however I want to be prepared.


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## OfficerObie59

Every other week, HRD holds a "practice" test so you cen get a feel for the course. Checked the aforementioned links for specific times and qualifactions.


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## L4G81

Can't find any specifics on the dates / times, however I emailed HRD personally in hopes that they can give me some updated information in regards to when the practice tests occur. 



OfficerObie59 said:


> Every other week, HRD holds a "practice" test so you cen get a feel for the course. Checked the aforementioned links for specific times and qualifactions.


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## OfficerObie59

Considering no ones really hiring, there probably isn't much of a need in HRD's eyes for a practice run.

Listen, if you're even just moderately fit and can jump the 5' wall, you'll be fine with everything else.


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## L4G81

That's the thing, I've never had the opportunity to jumpa 5' wall so I'm a bit curious to see what it's like. The running, dummy pulling, trigger events, etc I'm not worried about in the least bit. Just interested in the wall part.



OfficerObie59 said:


> Considering no ones really hiring, there probably isn't much of a need in HRD's eyes for a practice run.
> 
> Listen, if you're even just moderately fit and can jump the 5' wall, you'll be fine with everything else.


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## Johnny Law

LawMan3 said:


> which is a load of liberal BS - either jump the wall or not, no need for a ladder for those who couldn't make the REAL wall
> 
> cuz we all know there's gonna be footsteps on a solid 8 foot privacy fence right?! NOT


I prefer to go *through* the fence.


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## Johnny Law

I was thinking more along these lines


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## OfficerObie59

Johnny Law said:


> I was thinking more along these lines


First season...awesome.


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