# Veterans Preference -vs- "Credential Preference"



## hack1631

Just something I'd throught out there regarding civil service (esp. for PD) list placement. Please keep in mind that I am aware of civil service law and policy, but what I am confused about is reasoning. I have worked in law Enforcement (Corrections) 3 years, and in human services for 4 years prior to that. I have a degree in Criminal Justice. I have residency preference, and I did score very high on the test, enough to put me in the top 5, but not at "the top" because I am not a veteran. Ultimately I am not degrading or putting down vets because I think they do a hell of a job, and I currently work with a lot of them, and I respect those guys very much. However, I believe that public safety postions should be "best person for the job". My question is this: why should I, with a degree in the field (and yes I understand of its monetary reimbursment re; the quinn bill....but that doesnt help with getting hired), LE experience, residency, 7 years experience of working with people (isnt that what police work is????). I just dont understand why a veteran without these credentials & experience is considered and placed before???????????


----------



## HELPMe

just because they go to the top of the list doesnt mean that they will get the job. There are dildo's everywhere and if you keep your act together you will get on this time or next round. Vets get the points because LE is viewed as a para-military type organization and obviously coming from a military background the theory is that they will adjust to the structured environment better and have better training and initative then the average joe blow who takes the test. However, i do agree that some consideration should be given for those who have spent a majority of their career in the field.


----------



## snapdog

HELPMe said:


> just because they go to the top of the list doesnt mean that they will get the job. There are dildo's everywhere and if you keep your act together you will get on this time or next round. Vets get the points because LE is viewed as a para-military type organization and obviously coming from a military background the theory is that they will adjust to the structured environment better and have better training and initative then the average joe blow who takes the test. However, i do agree that some consideration should be given for those who have spent a majority of their career in the field.


Hey HELPme, all due respect to you and vets out there.....the bottom line is in most TOWN PD's in Massachusetts...IT"S ALL WHO YOU KNOW and not how much experience you have or educational credentials you may have. Also, don't give him (the originator of this thread) false hope by saying that by keeping your act together you will get on this time or next time around. That's bullshit. Take it from a guy who has his act together.....that means crap!! Let's speak realistically here....What will help you bottom line is either being a veteran or having one of the PD's "brass" in your back pocket.

As the previous post stated....that is how it has been in Massachusetts and that is how it is going to be. I agree 100%.

So for all you MORONS out there thinking....Wow I just got my Bachelors degree in CJ and I did this, that, and the other thing for 5+ years...don't hold your breath.........

STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY AT THESE DRIVE THROUGH SCHOOLS BEFORE YOU GET ON THE JOB!! Wait until after you get on the job!

I earned 2 Masters degrees (one in CJ and one in Counseling) before interviewing at 3 different Depts and they all stated "......with such an educational background why would you want to work as a cop working 3-11s and 11-7s??? wouldn't you be bored?"

Why????? Because I have wanted to be a cop for many years (at least 15), I have the people skills, 10+ years of interviewing and investigative skills, and the ability to interact with people (psychotic or otherwise) that frequently occurs or you may experience as a police officer. SORRY NOT GOOD ENOUGH BUD.

Instead they hire guys like this, for example....

I was listening to the Town PD where I live the other night and one of the BRIGHT Officer's asked for a Q21 or KQ (driver's history right???) or a BOP (Board of Probation check) on an individual from New York...the dispatcher responded by saying there was nothing showing on this individual from New York. The SHARP Officer then says...."How about in New York City???" I think the dispatcher almost tossed her chunks of D and D coffee all over the E911 system.


----------



## NegroRotary

Very smart P.O., he should take the NYPD test on the 24th of Feb


----------



## potatochip

Snapdog you sound extremely bitter. Sorry you got passed over, but your entire rant is laced with generalizations that are just wrong. Just to quote a few:



snapdog said:


> the bottom line is in most TOWN PD's in Massachusetts...IT"S ALL WHO YOU KNOW and not how much experience you have or educational credentials you may have...Let's speak realistically here....What will help you bottom line is either being a veteran or having one of the PD's "brass" in your back pocket.


When I got hired I didn't have any "brass in my back pocket." In fact I didn't know a single person on the department. Also, I didn't have VET status or a Bachelor's degree. What I did have was my associates from a mediocre school, 4 yrs National Guard experience, some LE volunteer work, and a clean record (at least no serious stuff). Oh yeah, and a 98 on the CS exam. And that 98 beat out guys with the same last name as Chief so-and-so.

As for the majority of our last 12-15 hires? 1 Vet. 3 of our dispatchers who have put in the time earning thier stripes with the dept. And the 4 of them also scored into the high 90's. A variety of different educational and experience backgrounds. I can't remember the last person we hired in the sub-90's. What you're related to Lt. Jones? That's great. Too bad you scored an 89 on the test.



snapdog said:


> So for all you MORONS out there thinking....Wow I just got my Bachelors degree in CJ and I did this, that, and the other thing for 5+ years...don't hold your breath.........
> 
> STOP WASTING YOUR MONEY AT THESE DRIVE THROUGH SCHOOLS BEFORE YOU GET ON THE JOB!! Wait until after you get on the job!


This might be some of the worst advice ever for a guy trying to get on the job.



snapdog said:


> Instead they hire guys like this, for example....
> 
> I was listening to the Town PD where I live the other night and one of the BRIGHT Officer's asked for a Q21 or KQ (driver's history right???) or a BOP (Board of Probation check) on an individual from New York...the dispatcher responded by saying there was nothing showing on this individual from New York. The SHARP Officer then says...."How about in New York City???" I think the dispatcher almost tossed her chunks of D and D coffee all over the E911 system.


Without knowing the exact situation, I don't find this all that unusual. If I ask for a KQ or BOP, dispatch usually only checks MA so I often verify that they ran other states if necessary. So maybe he was just verifying that they ran him through NY and the "city" isn't all that you are making it out to be.

In short, let it go and move on.


----------



## Guest

here we go again!


----------



## extremesgs

OCKS said:


> here we go again!


got that right....

The point is the same as all the other CS bashing threads.... you don't get a CS job based on merit/experience/training/etc, you get it based on what CS sets as their protocol.

Sometimes a non-vet, non-resident, doesn't know anyone, white male with a CJ degree and some experience gets the job. Sometimes.

As for the rest, its no mystery as to how the CS system works. If you've been dinged in the balls a few times by it, you should quickly figure it out.

Look elsewhere or put yourself through the MPTC academy. That's how those people will get the job they want. Either that, or band together with everyone who's been dinged by the strange ways of CS and fight to change it. Not much else you can do besides those things....


----------



## Mitpo62

Folks, it's not called "silly circus" for nothing.


----------



## snapdog

potatochip said:


> Snapdog you sound extremely bitter. Sorry you got passed over, but your entire rant is laced with generalizations that are just wrong. Just to quote a few:
> 
> When I got hired I didn't have any "brass in my back pocket." In fact I didn't know a single person on the department. Also, I didn't have VET status or a Bachelor's degree. What I did have was my associates from a mediocre school, 4 yrs National Guard experience, some LE volunteer work, and a clean record (at least no serious stuff). Oh yeah, and a 98 on the CS exam. And that 98 beat out guys with the same last name as Chief so-and-so.
> 
> As for the majority of our last 12-15 hires? 1 Vet. 3 of our dispatchers who have put in the time earning thier stripes with the dept. And the 4 of them also scored into the high 90's. A variety of different educational and experience backgrounds. I can't remember the last person we hired in the sub-90's. What you're related to Lt. Jones? That's great. Too bad you scored an 89 on the test.
> 
> This might be some of the worst advice ever for a guy trying to get on the job.
> 
> Without knowing the exact situation, I don't find this all that unusual. If I ask for a KQ or BOP, dispatch usually only checks MA so I often verify that they ran other states if necessary. So maybe he was just verifying that they ran him through NY and the "city" isn't all that you are making it out to be.
> 
> In short, let it go and move on.


potato....Bitter?? Generalizations?? I don't think so....I am stating the facts of what I experienced with the PD's I interviewed with. With one of them they were only hiring one Officer at the time and I was told that they chose the guy (who had the same civil service score as me by the way) because his father knew one of the Lieutenants, and the rest is history..... I know of at least 8 individuals who I went to school with and 4 individuals who are currently cops and they all have said they either experienced the same thing I did (in different towns by the way) or the ones that are cops (also with different PD's) have told me that their Depts. would prefer to hire the type of 
individuals I have described previously for various reasons one being that they can justify passing over candidates by arguing that that they are over qualified, will get bored on the job, blah, blah, blah just so they can hire who they want to.

Potato....good for you getting on the job without having any brass to help you out....at least that is what you state. Beating out a relative of the Chief with the same CS score....I DOUBT THAT. You and I both know that what you describe is not how things usually go with Town PD's. I am not talking about the State Police from what I have been told by many Troopers I know the MSP actually respects educational and experience credentials.

Based on my experiences and the individuals I have mentioned above this is the case, in fact, one of the individuals above scored a 100% on the CS exam and has a Master's degree and years of experience and was passed over for the same reason as I describe previously. Understand that if you put your heart and soul into strengthening your educational and related experience credentials and don't have any BOP (at all) then what is the point of spending your money at reputable CJ schools (for Bachelors or Masters degrees) before you get on the job. All of us out here now know that CJ degrees are good for extra $$$$$ in Massachusetts, otherwise they don't get you shit.

The Officer from my Town actually specifically asked the dispatcher for a KQ or BOP out of New York because that is where this guy lived and when the dispatcher responded by saying nothing showing in New York, that is when the Officer asked for a NYC check. I think you are missing the point on this one pal. By the dispatcher's reaction to the Officer's second inquiry it was clear he was an idiot(there are other examples with this Officer which are totally embarrassing to the Dept that I am aware of).

I hate to break the news to you but I actually let it go back in 2002 when I realized they (the PD's I interviewed with and most others) don't want to hire someone with tons of related work experience, related Master's degrees, Spanish speaking skills, State Police academy training, etc.....I can go on and on.....oh and by the way I scored a 98 on the CS exam also. 

Actually, you somewhat supported my point when you stated that you got on the job with average credentials at best.......

Best of luck Officer Potato Chip and be safe out there....my advice to YOU know is go and get that Bachelor's and Master's degree (if you haven't already) and take advantage of the $$$$$ out there that is there for the taking. I would if I was an average candidate who earned an Associates degree from a mediocre school and had a criminal record (oh yeah, but nothing bad though, right?). :roll:

Also, remember to look back at the Title of the original thread.....Veterans Preference vs. Credential Preference......clearly everyone knows that Veteran Preference comes before any Credentials one may have earned in the past. 
</IMG></IMG>
</IMG></IMG>


----------



## midwatch

Snapdog, I think you have some legit points. But Chip has good points to. I think we can all agree that CS blows and needs a major overhaul?


----------



## SinePari

If you want the job bad enough, go to where the jobs are. Other than that, call your Congressman and complain to them. Florida, Arizona, Texas and other not-so-cold places are hiring like crazy.


----------



## snapdog

midwatch said:


> Snapdog, I think you have some legit points. But Chip has good points to. I think we can all agree that CS blows and needs a major overhaul?


Midwatch, I agree with you for the most part...and that would be the part about CS being a shitty system. thanks.....


----------



## hack1631

Basically, it should be (cliched) "...the best person for the job...", but in this fantasy land of Massachusetts, thats OBVIOUSLY not the case. 

To takea little from every post (thank you very much by the way), I understand that PD's are paramilitary org's etc, etc.....yet i do have paramilitary training experience , yet _it's not good enough!!! ......._i have the experience, still _not good enough...._i've got the residency, you guessed it, NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Basically unless you're exactly who they want regardless of score or experience or anything else that would make you a good police officer, you really have to bust your ass.

I think the most frustrating part is that all of us (who are looking for the job) see "bad" cops and "bad" firefighters, etc etc (just like every other job in the world where you have "great---mediocre----terrible employees"......and that makes us that much more frustrated to know that we could do a better job, we are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

*SOUTH HERE I COME!!!!!!!!!*


----------



## Guest

snapdog said:


> potato....Bitter?? Generalizations?? I don't think so....I am stating the facts of what I experienced with the PD's I interviewed with. With one of them they were only hiring one Officer at the time and I was told that they chose the guy (who had the same civil service score as me by the way) because his father knew one of the Lieutenants, and the rest is history.....


Move out of the sticks, to a place that hires more than one cop every 3 years. The political bullshit happens at every level (including the state police), but with larger agencies, the BS is usually watered-down enough to give everyone a decent shot.


----------



## 94c

Civil Sevice is the rule.

Can't make the cut? Maybe it's just you and not the system.

Don't like veteran's preference? Then join the military and get the preference.

Police departments have enough cry babies. Find another career path.

I love to hear the critics of Civil Service explaining all the qualities that are needed to be a police officer but yet they can't get a job.

Get a Life.


----------



## snapdog

Delta784 said:


> Move out of the sticks, to a place that hires more than one cop every 3 years. The political bullshit happens at every level (including the state police), but with larger agencies, the BS is usually watered-down enough to give everyone a decent shot.


I live 15 miles outside of Boston, I wouldn't call that the sticks. Although, I guess if you live in Boston 15 miles out would be the sticks to you. Also, that was just one year when they were only hiring one officer. Other years they hired at least 3-5 Officers at a time. One year they hired 3 Officers and one of them was a former meter maid (she actually called that Law Enforcement experience). :lol: I know that the political bullshit happens everywhere, I was simply responding to the original thread which basically asked which has more weight in the selection process and why?? and that is clearly Veteran status over any past educational, experience, or training credentials.

hack1631....good luck down south, from what I have heard from men and women who have headed to Florida and LA they welcome and seek out candidates with strong educational and investigative backgrounds whether they are Vets or not.
</IMG>
</IMG>


----------



## hack1631

In response to 94c, and with all due respect, ( you probably are a very squared away guy), my point was that a person can have integrity, discipline, and be overall squared away without military service. I believe that I am, and yes, I am #2 on a list, my concern is that I will be "beat" before November when the list expires. And the ONLY reason I wasnt #1 (or hired as of yet) is because i am not a vet. To put it bluntly, military service doesnt make someone THAT MUCH better than the rest.


----------



## kwflatbed

hack1631 said:


> In response to 94c, and with all due respect, ( you probably are a very squared away guy), my point was that a person can have integrity, discipline, and be overall squared away without military service. I believe that I am, and yes, I am #2 on a list, my concern is that I will be "beat" before November when the list expires. And the ONLY reason I wasnt #1 (or hired as of yet) is because i am not a vet. To put it bluntly, military service doesnt make someone THAT MUCH better than the rest.


How the hell would you know,you are not the vet.


----------



## hack1631

kwflatbed said:


> How the hell would you know,you are not the vet.


You took what I said way out of context. Maybe if you read the entire thread you would have understood that I am not badmouthing veterans. My point was that not all (all being an idiom by definition: *above all, *before everything else; chiefly)vets are better than every one else. I think you would agree that there are "shitbum" vets just like there are shitbum civilians. My point was that JUST BECAUSE you have veteran status, would not make you a better officer than a civilian. And yes sir, although I am not a "veteran", like I said before, I do have LE experience and paramilitary training.


----------



## kwflatbed

hack1631 said:


> You took what I said way out of context. Maybe if you read the entire thread you would have understood that I am not badmouthing veterans. My point was that not all (all being an idiom by definition: *above all, *before everything else; chiefly)vets are better than every one else. I think you would agree that there are "shitbum" vets just like there are shitbum civilians. My point was that JUST BECAUSE you have veteran status, would not make you a better officer than a civilian. And yes sir, although I am not a "veteran", like I said before, I do have LE experience and paramilitary training.


It is still not the same experience you would have gained in the US Military.


----------



## 94c

I am not a vet. 

Does veteran's preference make a better cop?
Does someone who can scale a wall make a better cop?
Does the exam score make a better cop?
Does a Masters Degree make a better cop?
Does a perfect shot make a better cop?

Bottom line is the rules are the same going in for everyone. Beat the rules and you too can get a job in Law Enforcement. If it is meant to be.

Don't criticize the system, beat it.

In my opinion the guy who comes on here complaining about veterans preference is the same as the guy or gal who complains about the wall being to high.

When I took this job I had to know how to swim. Now what the hell does swimming have to do with police work in a city? Twenty-four years later and I still have not had to strip my uniform and dive in.

But guess what? I LEARNED HOW TO SWIM and so did everyone else that wanted the job.


----------



## serpico

Hey Snap Dog you piss and moan way to much brother. Join the service and become a veteran just like the rest of us. Veterans status is just the Commonwealths way of taking care of the guys and gals that served their country by providing them with good jobs.


----------



## snapdog

serpico said:


> Hey Snap Dog you piss and moan way to much brother. Join the service and become a veteran just like the rest of us. Veterans status is just the Commonwealths way of taking care of the guys and gals that served their country by providing them with good jobs.


Wow, I state the facts and the obvious from my experiences and you state I "piss and moan"....I have already stated that I have accepted the Commonwealth of Mass' system of hiring at the Town PD level, although I disagree with it and I have the outmost respect for Vets. How is that pissing and moaning?? Now why would I go and join the service at this point in my life...I'm in my late 30's, wife, 2 young kids, very good State job and who is going to fuckin hire a white male in his late 30's who lives "out in the sticks". Fifteen years ago if I knew what I know now about the importance of Veteran status (as it relates to CS jobs) I would have likely joined the service. There has never been any intention on my part of disrespecting Veterans or their families.


----------



## Mitpo62

What makes a good cop? An ole' timer told me a long time ago that a good cop "has common sense, compassion, and a sense of humor."


----------



## K9Vinny

Why would a veterinarian want to be a cop anyway? Wouldn't he make more money working at an animal hospital.

P.S. Hack, with all due respect, in reference to your first thread, I don't consider 3 years corrections as significant law enforcement experience, so mabye the hiring authority might view it that way also. Most likely, the fact that you are in your late 30's is looked more negatively against you (unjustly so, but it is nonetheless) that not being a Vet, or veterinarian for that matter. 

Also, my experience has seen that having the academy behind your belt will greatly outweight your chances against other candidates, even if they are connected. Saving money has always been the bottom line to hiring authorities.


----------



## serpico

Mitpo62 I agree with you 100% brother. Those three elements are what make a great cop.


----------



## OutOfManyOne

If you really ,really,really want to be a cop and cannot get on in MA, then leave and get on a PD in another state. The rules are the rules here in MA, so like 94C said, change them, adapt by them or move on.


----------



## hack1631

K9Vinny said:


> Why would a veterinarian want to be a cop anyway? Wouldn't he make more money working at an animal hospital.
> 
> _P.S. Hack, with all due respect, in reference to your first thread, I don't consider 3 years corrections as significant law enforcement experience, so mabye the hiring authority might view it that way also. Most likely, the fact that you are in your late 30's is looked more negatively against you (unjustly so, but it is nonetheless) that not being a Vet, or veterinarian for that matter._
> 
> I think you got something confused....I am not in my late 30s (I am in my mid 20s)...I am not a "veterinarian" either, Not sure where you got that from??????
> And I totally agree with you that 3 years corrections is not "significant" LE work, yet I do think that time spent in a Maximum Security Prison is more than "the average joe" (who takes the test) has.


----------



## OutOfManyOne

> yet I do think that time spent in a Maximum Security Prison is more than "the average joe" (who takes the test) has.


 CO jon and PO job are like comparing Apples and Oranges and even though every dick might take the test, only a handful get hired. How do you know who has what for training and experience. Is it possible that someone might have more training, education, experience then you?


----------



## hack1631

In response to outofmanyone, I am not crying or whining (in fact I have a very decent chance of being hired)..I'm trying to make a point. I never said I was any better or any worse than anyone else. However, I am #2 on a certain list. The whole point of the thread was to weigh credentials (ie training, experience, etc etc) -vs- veteran pref. 

And yes I do agree that corrections and police are like apples and oranges and there is a line there that should not be crossed. Yet corrections is all about interpersonal communications, which is a vital part of police work. That was my only correlation. And I also never said that i should be "entilted to the job" so I would appreciate it if you didnt put words in my mouth. So with that being said....does being a veteran entitle you to the job???????


----------



## OutOfManyOne

If you are #2 then DON'T WORRY unless you have another TIE with you that is better qualified. Sit down and enjoy the ride.


> does being a veteran entitle you to the job???????


 No, they are entitled to a chance to get the job, but as someone that is supposedlky #2 on the list, why are you bitching and whinning unless you are something like #20 or #200.


----------



## hack1631

Yes I am #2 (not 20 or 200).....and I am not bitching, If you check the thread, I have never once bitched or moaned. I am well aware how MA civil service works, and my mindset has always been beat the system, dont let the system beat you. I took the test in '03 and finished in the top 20 (not good enough) so I said screw it, I have to bust my ass!!!! I got a 98 in 2005 and am now #2. 
My point in starting this topic was to find the overall opinion of the members of this forum regarding Veterans -vs- Non Veterans. The bottom line is that each group thinks they are right. Which is very understandable. The fact of the matter is, if you want to get on a PD, you need a damn near perfect score. I have already had one interview and am currently in the process for a reserve position. Thanks for everyones input.


----------



## Guest

snapdog said:


> Fifteen years ago if I knew what I know now about the importance of Veteran status (as it relates to CS jobs) I would have likely joined the service. There has never been any intention on my part of disrespecting Veterans or their families.


DOUCHEFUCK ! People join the military because they want to serve their country, not because they want to be a cop and can't get on any other way. If I was in a trench with you, and I found out you were there for all the wrong reasons, I might stick you with a K Bar myself....... KILL YOURSELF.


----------



## Guest

hack1631 said:


> does being a veteran entitle you to the job???????


Over a non-veteran? You bet your ass it does.


----------



## kwflatbed

Quote:
does being a veteran entitle you to the job??????? 
Hack your id says it all "A HACK KNOW IT ALL"

Any man or woman who has served this country steps to the front of the line !!!!!!!


----------



## snapdog

Sniper said:


> DOUCHEFUCK ! People join the military because they want to serve their country, not because they want to be a cop and can't get on any other way. If I was in a trench with you, and I found out you were there for all the wrong reasons, I might stick you with a K Bar myself....... KILL YOURSELF.


Yeah, that's cool Sniper, real classy.....


----------



## noob

Sniper said:


> DOUCHEFUCK ! People join the military because they want to serve their country, not because they want to be a cop and can't get on any other way. If I was in a trench with you, and I found out you were there for all the wrong reasons, I might stick you with a K Bar myself....... KILL YOURSELF.


Just my personal observation after my military stint, but it seems like more people join the military for school benefits nowadays. Ask around. It sounds like if it were up to you, there would be a whole lot of dead college kids and not much of a military. Again, just what I see from my experience, doesn't mean that it's true across the board.


----------



## serpico

Hey Sniper I thought it was pretty classy


----------



## chiefwiggum

In response to HACK your name explains a lot bout you you would prefer a system probably not unlike the system that hired you as a corrections officer.. You know the Sherrif you get a job. 
It's just to bad you didn't do any research on the job that you spent all of that $ on at school trying to obtain. If you had you would have probably eather joined the service or chose another career field. 
The system was set up to get away from patronage of past times where jobs were handed down to people who knew people and what not. Is there still some shananagans in some Dept.s of course but you can appeal to CS if you think it was unfair and it's better than no system.
When I got hired I knew no one on the Dept not 1 person. So the system worked for me. As for the Veterans status anyone that is capable of being in this field is capable of joining the service so join you now know how the system works take advantage.. Remember there are alot of other re-ras out there like you wasting there time on useless degrees that you can beat out if you join now!


----------



## NegroRotary

noob you are right, a lot of the kids nowdays are there for school benefits, very sad, but true.


----------



## Irish50

Enough


----------



## SP1173

I did not read through all of the posts, but I too have always wanted to be a policeman. I took the last test a couple years ago and scored a 91 which I thought was good but even with residency .... not a chance in hell without vets pref. And since I really want to do something law enforcement related if you can't beat 'em join 'em. So I enlisted in the guard and will look to ship somewhere and get my 6 months or 12 or most likely 18. But I would rather do something I know will push my chances through the roof to get on rather then just keeping my s*#t together and hoping they hire 80 people in my local p.d. in the next 2 years. I'll let you know how it unfolds in the next 2 years.:-D


----------



## lab276

It's been said enough throughout this whole thread that the Civil Service system is what it is. Like many other replies have said, you must learn to work the system. You don't have the power to change it, so you have to follow the rules that are already established. It is what it is. One piece of advice from someone who's been on the job 10 years....please leave the whining at home if you do get the PD job, because we already have to deal with enough people who can't manage their lives on the street.


----------



## extraining guy

hack1631 said:


> Just something I'd throught out there regarding civil service (esp. for PD) list placement. Please keep in mind that I am aware of civil service law and policy, but what I am confused about is reasoning. I have worked in law Enforcement (Corrections) 3 years, and in human services for 4 years prior to that. I have a degree in Criminal Justice. I have residency preference, and I did score very high on the test, enough to put me in the top 5, but not at "the top" because I am not a veteran. Ultimately I am not degrading or putting down vets because I think they do a hell of a job, and I currently work with a lot of them, and I respect those guys very much. However, I believe that public safety postions should be "best person for the job". My question is this: why should I, with a degree in the field (and yes I understand of its monetary reimbursment re; the quinn bill....but that doesnt help with getting hired), LE experience, residency, 7 years experience of working with people (isnt that what police work is????). I just dont understand why a veteran without these credentials & experience is considered and placed before???????????
> ITS A multiple choice,general knowledge TEST. CREDENTIALS MEAN NOTHING!!! VETS STATUS MEANS SOMETHING BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE SAYS IT DOES.All CS positions are the same, from PO's to Clerical tests. Thems the rules. You don't need a degree, EMT certificate, LE experience, military, or anything but a clean record (no Felonies) and a HS diploma or GED, and about a 99.9999 on the exam. If you where in the military they give you 2 points, which, if you have a high score puts you at the front of the line. In case you forgot, Civil Service was created to give soldiers coming home from WWII a shot at getting jobs over political hacks, along with the GI Bill, GI housing, etc. A good friend of mine and a LT on my department was in the Marines for 4 years and hated every second of it from the time the bus stopped at PI until he ran out the front gate four years later. I asked him once why he joined the Marines, "wanted to be a cop" That's the way it is. Get over it already.


----------



## Guest

extraining guy said:


> CREDENTIALS MEAN NOTHING!!! VETS STATUS MEANS SOMETHING BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE SAYS IT DOES


If you were on the job and you have ever been in the shit....... You would know that You can CLEARLY differentiate those who are prior military and those who are not SIMPLY by how they react....... You say you are in corrections, No? When the shit hits the fan at work, if ever, who do you want by your side? I know I want some 10 year Gunny by my side and not the .............. I'll stop here.


----------



## Mitpo62

Civil Service may have been created to eliminate the politics of appointments, but it surely is not that way in today's world. In any town/city where the politicians are the appointing authority politics are alive and well.


----------



## SinePari

We'd be having the same conversation if it was college degree vs other credentials. I joined the military waaaaaayyyy before I had the desire to take the police test(s). Top 5 in my residence town for 4 years straight, not one call. Thought no way in hell I'd get on the MSP, and did. Only because of the 2 points for vet status (the first Gulf War BTW  ) was I in front of the line for all the classes from that exam.


----------

