# Civil Service Bypass



## Johnnydoemass

Question for anyone. When you apply to a civil service department, can they see if you have been previously bypassed by other towns?


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## 263FPD

Bypassed for what? Hypothetically speaking of course


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## Johnnydoemass

263FPD said:


> Bypassed for what? Hypothetically speaking of course


Hypothetically the previous civil service community felt you were lying about stuff on your background. Poor credit history and driving history.


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## 263FPD

Lying will stop you dead in your tracks. Credit history can hurt you. Driving history is not per se a deal breaker unless it is really bad. If background investigator is doing his or her job, you are screwed if you lied on your prior background questioning. Your credibility in LE rests mainly on your word. No one will want to give you this job if you can’t testify on a stand. Lies go in to your file even as a prospect candidate. Anyone on criminal defense team can file a FOIA and obtain your file from beginning to date. If they have a paper in your file saying you lied, the case you are giving testimony in, will be dismissed. It can also open up your employer to a civil suit that may allege your arrest to be unlawful and a civil rights violation. Who would want you as a candidate with that pedigree? 

In short, if you hypothetically lied in your last selection process, you should consider a different career path. I could sugar coat it for you, but that wouldn’t be doing you any service, would it?


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## Johnnydoemass

263FPD said:


> Lying will stop you dead in your tracks. Credit history can hurt you. Driving history is not per se a deal breaker unless it is really bad. If background investigator is doing his or her job, you are screwed if you lied on your prior background questioning. Your credibility in LE rests mainly on your word. No one will want to give you this job if you can't testify on a stand. Lies go in to your file even as a prospect candidate. Anyone on criminal defense team can file a FOIA and obtain your file from beginning to date. If they have a paper in your file saying you lied, the case you are giving testimony in, will be dismissed. It can also open up your employer to a civil suit that may allege your arrest to be unlawful and a civil rights violation. Who would want you as a candidate with that pedigree?
> 
> In short, if you hypothetically lied in your last selection process, you should consider a different career path. I could sugar coat it for you, but that wouldn't be doing you any service, would it?


Totally agree with you. So hypothetically, change the scenario the department bypasses you for failing to disclose a pending investigation within the military which was never asked on the application but when brought you were honest about it. (Investigation proved nothing wrong)

At this point they said they were not interested in you and you withdrew your name from civil service.

At this point you have technically not lied correct?

More or less just curious is all withdrawals and bypass' are viewable by other departments.


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## 263FPD

You will be filling out a packet that has a question in it essentially asking you if you were a candidate in another PD at some point in time. Here’s your catch 22. You could roll the dice and say NO. You could be honest and say YES. If it is researched and they see you were in fact a candidate elsewhere, they will see your background folder. You answer NO, you LIED. You answer YES, your candidacy ends when they see that background file, or they may give you a shot to explain it. Most likely bypass you again.


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## Johnnydoemass

263FPD said:


> You will be filling out a packet that has a question in it essentially asking you if you were a candidate in another PD at some point in time. Here's your catch 22. You could roll the dice and say NO. You could be honest and say YES. If it is researched and they see you were in fact a candidate elsewhere, they will see your background folder. You answer NO, you LIED. You answer YES, your candidacy ends when they see that background file, or they may give you a shot to explain it. Most likely bypass you again.


Awful catch 22. I did hear that civil service changed their system so a lot of stuff may be gone. Not sure if anyone knows this to be true or not.


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## Johnnydoemass

woodyd said:


> If what you're saying is accurate, I'd appeal the bypass to the civil service commission. Then by all means, put in for other jobs, be honest on your backgrounds, and disclose that you were bypassed, what for and that it is under appeal. Most background investigation forms will ask for details about any disclosures that you make.


That ship sailed years ago. Like 09 time frame was that. Focused on other things the last 8+ years.


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## 263FPD

Johnnydoemass said:


> Awful catch 22. I did hear that civil service changed their system so a lot of stuff may be gone. Not sure if anyone knows this to be true or not.


I don't know where you are hearing that.


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## Johnnydoemass

263FPD said:


> I don't know where you are hearing that.


I called CS because my veteran preference was not their from when I took the test back in 09. This is the first test I have taken since. When I asked why it didn't transfer they said it's because they have a new system.


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## 263FPD

Johnnydoemass said:


> I called CS because my veteran preference was not their from when I took the test back in 09. This is the first test I have taken since. When I asked why it didn't transfer they said it's because they have a new system.


That has nothing to do with how departments conduct their selection process and backgrounds. Civil service does nothing but compile and categorize the candidates by score and groupings such as veteran lists and or bilingual lists, for example.


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## 2chuckbarrrl

They absolutely will not know you were bypassed. The long and the short of it is the current department will not know that you were bypassed (assuming you didn't appeal it). If you were bypassed for dishonesty, your best bet is to not throw yourself under the bus and significantly hurt your chances at getting hired, especially since they would never know.
If you want to go that route, good for you. You will have your integrity, but no job.


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## Rufus Teague

2chuckbarrrl said:


> They absolutely will not know you were bypassed. The long and the short of it is the current department will not know that you were bypassed (assuming you didn't appeal it). If you were bypassed for dishonesty, your best bet is to not throw yourself under the bus and significantly hurt your chances at getting hired, especially since they would never know.
> If you want to go that route, good for you. You will have your integrity, but no job.


I was also gonna say that their is no way some town is gonna find out that you applied for a job outside of new England like say for example cedar rapids, Iowa and got bypassed. They probably could find out you applied for say Manchester, nh but I highly doubt small town mass could find out that unless that job did a detailed check on you that leaves a paper trail.


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## Tailon630

They can find out where you applied if you have been finger printed. I had this happen to me and they can see every where you have been fingerprinted criminally or for a job in this case


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## 2chuckbarrrl

Tailon630 said:


> They can find out where you applied if you have been finger printed. I had this happen to me and they can see every where you have been fingerprinted criminally or for a job in this case


I was under the impression that fingerprints would only return criminal record information and not everytime you've applied for a job. Anyone familiar with this process?


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## mpd61

Just an FYI as far as appealing a bypass;
I would NEVER do it, first it makes a significant part of your life history PUBLIC record published for all, and secondly it makes any other hiring authority balk at hiring you.

All the above is not applicable if you have SMOKING GUN video/audio/documents of some major discrimination(s) bias against you.....Maybe


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## Rufus Teague

Tailon630 said:


> They can find out where you applied if you have been finger printed. I had this happen to me and they can see every where you have been fingerprinted criminally or for a job in this case


The criminal part is obvious but a lot of out of state places toss you early on usually without a reason before they fingerprint.
I was thinking more like credit pulls or medical records checks where their may be a record of who else checked it.

Also employers who were contacted may also keep a record of random places who called.


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## 2chuckbarrrl

mpd61 said:


> Just an FYI as far as appealing a bypass;
> I would NEVER do it, first it makes a significant part of your life history PUBLIC record published for all,
> 
> 
> Rufus Teague said:
> 
> 
> 
> The criminal part is obvious but a lot of out of state places toss you early on usually without a reason before they fingerprint.
> I was thinking more like credit pulls or medical records checks where their may be a record of who else checked it.
> 
> Also employers who were contacted may also keep a record of random places who called.
> 
> 
> 
> Most departments fingerprint when you submit the application in preparation for the bi. And I doubt a workplace would mention to an investigator "oh hey, btw this police dept called here 8 years ago asking about johnny..."
Click to expand...


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## 263FPD

Guess you all who keep saying that they “won’t find out” don’t remember or don’t know about that application question where you’re asked if you have ever been a candidate before. Lie about that. Go right ahead and roll those dice. What exactly is wrong with you, encouraging someone to be untruthful in their application process?


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## 2chuckbarrrl

263FPD said:


> Guess you all who keep saying that they "won't find out" don't remember or don't know about that application question where you're asked if you have ever been a candidate before. Lie about that. Go right ahead and roll those dice. What exactly is wrong with you, encouraging someone to be untruthful in their application process?


Really only comes down to 2 questions, does he want the job? And will 'lying' in the previous process prevent him from getting the job? If both answers are yes, then it would be unwise to sabotage your chance. Like you said... mention it and they will "most likely bypass you again "


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## 263FPD

Tailon630 said:


> They can find out where you applied if you have been finger printed. I had this happen to me and they can see every where you have been fingerprinted criminally or for a job in this case


Fingerprints are crosschecked only for criminal stuff. They are now rolled electronically, so the results are pretty quick.


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## MiamiVice

Many competent background investigators here on mascops........... myself included. 

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## 2chuckbarrrl

MiamiVice said:


> Many competent background investigators here on mascops........... myself included.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


You'd be a perfect person to ask this question. What's the likelihood of a BI finding out if johnny was previously bypassed?


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## Bloodhound

2chuckbarrrl said:


> You'd be a perfect person to ask this question. What's the likelihood of a BI finding out if johnny was previously bypassed?


Well if he was bypassed by a civil service department in Mass. as he stated, the odds are that he lived in that town at some point or has some connection to it. Any decent BI will go to the PD in every town he lived in with the signed disclosure form and ask for anything the PD has on him. If he has no connection to the town that bypassed him then maybe he could get away with it. But it is rather ironic you are considering trying to hide the fact you were bypassed for being untruthful by being untruthful on a new application. Maybe the PD was on to something.


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## 263FPD

Bloodhound said:


> Well if he was bypassed by a civil service department in Mass. as he stated, the odds are that he lived in that town at some point or has some connection to it. Any decent BI will go to the PD in every town he lived in with the signed disclosure form and ask for anything the PD has on him. If he has no connection to the town that bypassed him then maybe he could get away with it. But it is rather ironic you are considering trying to hide the fact you were bypassed for being untruthful by being untruthful on a new application. Maybe the PD was on to something.


I hate sound like a fucking parrot but once again, he will have to disclose a prior candidacy for another PD. It will be followed up on from that point.


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## Treehouse413

263FPD said:


> Lying will stop you dead in your tracks. Credit history can hurt you. Driving history is not per se a deal breaker unless it is really bad. If background investigator is doing his or her job, you are screwed if you lied on your prior background questioning. Your credibility in LE rests mainly on your word. No one will want to give you this job if you can't testify on a stand. Lies go in to your file even as a prospect candidate. Anyone on criminal defense team can file a FOIA and obtain your file from beginning to date. If they have a paper in your file saying you lied, the case you are giving testimony in, will be dismissed. It can also open up your employer to a civil suit that may allege your arrest to be unlawful and a civil rights violation. Who would want you as a candidate with that pedigree?
> 
> In short, if you hypothetically lied in your last selection process, you should consider a different career path. I could sugar coat it for you, but that wouldn't be doing you any service, would it?


I agree with everything 263 said . If you lie and they find out your done. I recently took a class for new hires and was told not to bypass for credit of social media.


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## 263FPD

Treehouse413 said:


> I agree with everything 263 said . If you lie and they find out your done. I recently took a class for new hires and was told not to bypass for credit of social media.


Never really understood the bypass for less than perfect credit. Considering how many cops have their credit tank after divorces and other things that could happen through the career. While there is an opportunity to work overtime and details and what not, most LE jobs don't earn a ton of money. I sometimes look at several departments who actually pay their cops well and I can't help but wonder how come some make nearly 1.5 times more in their base than others. Especially when the higher earning departments are smaller and have an accordingly lower call volume.

I have seen my PD use some candidates' social media against them. I don't totally agree with that, but some have posted some down right stupid shit on their pages. Excessive alcohol use, hate speech type stuff, racist, sexist, anti-law enforcement things. That strikes me funny anyway. You post anti LE stuff but you want the job? Makes no sense.

I will say that some bypasses are definitely unfair. But some folks have zero business on the job. Including some of the ones that are already on it.


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## mpd61

263FPD said:


> .
> 
> I will say that some bypasses are definitely unfair. *But some folks have zero business on the job*. Including some of the ones that are already on it.


True V! Too bad Tommy-boy's reckoning came too late to save two good cops careers!


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## 263FPD

Sadly 


mpd61 said:


> True V! Too bad Tommy-boy's reckoning came too late to save two good cops careers!


There are many out there like it.


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## Treehouse413

Yes if you plan on being on the job I'd say limit the social media stuff especially the FB where you can post all sorts of stupid shit you'll regret. I also agree with the credit thing every good cop is on their 2nd to 3rd marriage. Ha


263FPD said:


> Never really understood the bypass for less than perfect credit. Considering how many cops have their credit tank after divorces and other things that could happen through the career. While there is an opportunity to work overtime and details and what not, most LE jobs don't earn a ton of money. I sometimes look at several departments who actually pay their cops well and I can't help but wonder how come some make nearly 1.5 times more in their base than others. Especially when the higher earning departments are smaller and have an accordingly lower call volume.
> 
> I have seen my PD use some candidates' social media against them. I don't totally agree with that, but some have posted some down right stupid shit on their pages. Excessive alcohol use, hate speech type stuff, racist, sexist, anti-law enforcement things. That strikes me funny anyway. You post anti LE stuff but you want the job? Makes no sense.
> 
> I will say that some bypasses are definitely unfair. But some folks have zero business on the job. Including some of the ones that are already on it.


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## MiamiVice

2chuckbarrrl said:


> You'd be a perfect person to ask this question. What's the likelihood of a BI finding out if johnny was previously bypassed?


I'd say 75%

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## Bloodhound

263FPD said:


> I hate sound like a fucking parrot but once again, he will have to disclose a prior candidacy for another PD. It will be followed up on from that point.


I agree. I was responding to the "what if he didn't disclose prior candidacy" question.


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## j809

I do backgrounds and I can easily find out every police department you applied for from CJiS BOP employment query. Then I make the calls. Remember that if one of those departments did a background and wrote a report that you were untruthful, you’re done.



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## Edmizer1

j809 said:


> I do backgrounds and I can easily find out every police department you applied for from CJiS BOP employment query. Then I make the calls. Remember that if one of those departments did a background and wrote a report that you were untruthful, you're done.
> 
> Quick related question, our town labor attorney just told us that no BOP can be performed until there is a conditional offer of employment which is after the background. This completely doesn't make sense to me. Anyone run into this?


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## j809

That could be for your Pd by that would be wrong , they usually pickup background application and that has all the release and waivers for us to run the background bop etc. Can't really run them when they come in and sign the list for example.

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## 11bravoarmy

Just a quick question not to hijack the thread, but I had a nasty divorce (army life) and am working on rebuilding my credit. It’s fair at the moment but not poor, would that cause me to be bypassed?


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## Treehouse413

11bravoarmy said:


> Just a quick question not to hijack the thread, but I had a nasty divorce (army life) and am working on rebuilding my credit. It's fair at the moment but not poor, would that cause me to be bypassed?


I took a background /new hire class last year and was advised not to use poor credit as a bypass reason. This was geared more toward civil service. I'm sure non cs can do as they like.


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## MiamiVice

The issue of poor credit/financial trouble is that the person could be a risk for bribes, theft, or other financial influence. 

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## j809

Treehouse413 said:


> I took a background /new hire class last year and was advised not to use poor credit as a bypass reason. This was geared more toward civil service. I'm sure non cs can do as they like.


I think it's all relative. If you had something happened and you fell behind and can explain it I would say that you're ok. If you completely disregard your bills and everything is in collections because you have the money but won't pay them then i would have a problem with that candidate.

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## Treehouse413

j809 said:


> I think it's all relative. If you had something happened and you fell behind and can explain it I would say that you're ok. If you completely disregard your bills and everything is in collections because you have the money but won't pay them then i would have a problem with that candidate.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes i agree shit happens in life. If the plan is to bypass in CS department for credit I'd find something else to go along with it.


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