# Hiring Soon



## cal1nu

Does anyone know when was the last time the following cities hired and if so how many did they hire? Despite the bad economy, any chance these cities may be hiring soon or in the near future?

Brookline

Medford

Milton


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## Brian831

If they do it will be some of the 111 layed off Police Officers....

Police Officer Reemployment List


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## Duff112

WTF- I guy who's got 7 YEARS ON gets laid off. Truly miserable times we live in.


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## rireserve

Brookline is helping out and picking up some of the layed off folks and some residents off their list that went out a while ago before they list expanded. So they are all done hiring for a while.


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## L4G81

You know how you can sometimes go to the deli counter at your grocery store, pick a number from one of those machines and wait in a gigantic line that seems never ending as if you'll be there all day? 

....go ahead, grab your ticket, sit back and wait in line because no one knows what it's going to be like in the next two years. 

Good luck regardless.


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## John J

Wow, a friend of mine is on that list. Now if a civil service department decides to hire a few guys, do they have to go to the rehire list or can they hire a new recruit if they want?


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## Guest

John J said:


> Wow, a friend of mine is on that list. Now if a civil service department decides to hire a few guys, do they have to go to the rehire list or can they hire a new recruit if they want?


They have to hire from the layoff list, unless they can explain why the layoffs should be disqualified. Good luck finding reasons for over 100 people.


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## trel

116 layed off officers...I thought the list was long when the muni's were on there.


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## midwatch

trel said:


> 116 layed off officers...I thought the list was long when the muni's were on there.


Check back on July 1. I'm worried about quite a few friends on the bubble.


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## SullyMass

midwatch said:


> Check back on July 1. I'm worried about quite a few friends on the bubble.


Is July 1st the typical turn around date for scores and banding?

Thanks!
Sull


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## Irishpride

Nope, more lay-offs are likely given the 2010 projected budget


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## Macop

I imagine more layoffs will come now that municipalities will have to pony up more money for the Quinn since the funding was cut.


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## midwatch

SullyMass said:


> Is July 1st the typical turn around date for scores and banding?


No, July 1 is the start of the new fiscal year. With all the budget cuts, I know quite a few guys sweating it out.



Macop said:


> I imagine more layoffs will come now that municipalities will have to pony up more money for the Quinn since the funding was cut.


Depends on individual CBA's. I know of 1 town that will pick up the whole tab. But I think most, including mine, are only required to pay their half. If the state underfunds their portion, then we only get the prorated amount that they fund.


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## SinePari

Florida, Texas, Arizona...


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## Guest

They're hiring;


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## OfficerObie59

John J said:


> Wow, a friend of mine is on that list. Now if a civil service department decides to hire a few guys, do they have to go to the rehire list or can they hire a new recruit if they want?





Delta784 said:


> They have to hire from the layoff list, unless they can explain why the layoffs should be disqualified. Good luck finding reasons for over 100 people.


Keep in mind though, the vast majority of those layoffs are from isolated cities (New Bedford and Fall River come to mind), many that went a quite a ways down the list.

I would think that if say, the town of Tewksbury decides to hire, that much fewer guys from the Southcoast would take those jobs, espcially in the face of 41/99A...not that I'm saying it's impossible, but I would think it more unlikely for those guys to pack up and take jobs on the North Shore or Western Mass than other South Shore or South Coast communities.

IMO, the closer the layoffs occured to you, the more difficult it'll be to break into civil service, which will be compounded simply by the money situation in those areas.

I noticed some of the 51st Plymouth MPOC names from on there too. Add Brockton to that list of cities.

And Worcester.


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## Guest

OfficerObie59 said:


> I would think that if say, the town of Tewksbury decides to hire, that much fewer guys from the Southcoast would take those jobs, espcially in the face of 41/99A...not that I'm saying it's impossible, but I would think it more unlikely for those guys to pack up and take jobs on the North Shore or Western Mass than other South Shore or South Coast communities.


Personally, I'd move if it meant getting hired somewhere. Even then, the layoff list is going to impact hiring decisions for a lot of departments. We're shorthanded, and will be even more so by July 1st, but I was pretty much told that we're not going to hire as long as there's a layoff list.


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## Big.G

Delta784 said:


> I was pretty much told that we're not going to hire as long as there's a layoff list.


So the department wants to wait so they can hire fresh meat off the CS list?


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## Guest

resqjyw0 said:


> So the department wants to wait so they can hire fresh meat off the CS list?


The mayor (appointing authority) is a very "pro-city" person; I can't see him hiring anyone who has no connection to the city whatsoever.

I can see both sides...getting trained, experienced cops is great, but at the same time, it would be rather frustrating to have to explain to layoff hires where Hancock and Washington Streets are located.


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## Irishpride

Delta784 said:


> I can see both sides...getting trained, experienced cops is great, but at the same time, it would be rather frustrating to have to explain to layoff hires where Hancock and Washington Streets are located.


Yeah that really makes sense, don't hire the experienced officer who has proven themselves in a busy inner city environment like NB, FR, or Brockton, hire someone with no experience just because they know the geography of the city.......ARE YOU KIDDING ME! I would be more than happy to learn my way around for the chance to do the job that I am trained in and have done for years.
:sb:


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## Guest

Irishpride said:


> Yeah that really makes sense, don't hire the experienced officer who has proven themselves in a busy inner city environment like NB, FR, or Brockton, hire someone with no experience just because they know the geography of the city.......ARE YOU KIDDING ME! I would be more than happy to learn my way around for the chance to do the job that I am trained in and have done for years.


We have a very shortened (2 weeks = 8 shifts) FTO program for academy trained people, which isn't nearly long enough for someone with no knowledge of the city to learn even the basic streets and landmarks. The experienced cops from other departments are of no use to me whatsoever when I'm getting my ass kicked, if they don't know how to get to where I am.

As I said, I see both sides. However, it's been like pulling teeth to explain basic city geography to some past n00bs who lived in the city for barely a year to meet residency, never mind someone who has to check Mapquest just to find the police station.


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## fra444

Delta, with the GPS that ALL the new guys use they have the ability to find streets easier then when I started. And with an experienced officer near you he may start drifting towards your location before the shit hits the fan.

I have to go with experience over knowledge of the area. The experienced officer will have to learn the personality of the city and the department just as a n00b would.

I cant agree with the Mayor on that one.


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## Guest

fra444 said:


> Delta, with the GPS that ALL the new guys use they have the ability to find streets easier then when I started.


If my cruiser starts and the radio works, everything else is gravy. GPS? Bwa ha ha ha!!!!! 



fra444 said:


> The experienced officer will have to learn the personality of the city and the department just as a n00b would.


I grew up in the city, and lived there when I was hired, so even as a n00b, I already had an understanding of city geography.

My first (and only since I was already academy trained) FTO rattled off about 8 major roads, and asked if I knew how to get from one to another. Of course I did, and he told me that as long as I knew that, a street guide would provide the rest. I give that same lecture to my n00bs as an FTO myself.



fra444 said:


> I cant agree with the Mayor on that one.


I'm not saying I agree with it, or even that it's totally his decision, I'm just saying I see both sides.


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## fra444

I would turn in my keys before I put one of those STUPID GPS's up on my windshield. But they work for the new guys. There are guys I have worked with that cant find their way out of a paper bag without one but with one may get there before me.

I'm just saying that in my opinion the experience should be more helpful than knowing the lay of the land. Realizing that they are both important and necessary to make a good LEO I would lean towards experience.


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## Guest

fra444 said:


> I'm just saying that in my opinion the experience should be more helpful than knowing the lay of the land. Realizing that they are both important and necessary to make a good LEO I would lean towards experience.


I agree that experience is vital, but at the same time, when I'm getting my ass handed to me by a crowd, I don't want to wait for someone to type in GPS directions to the location where I'm getting my ass handed to me. I'd much rather they already know how to get there.


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## jay-z

Irishpride said:


> Yeah that really makes sense, don't hire the experienced officer who has proven themselves in a busy inner city environment like NB, FR, or Brockton, hire someone with no experience just because they know the geography of the city.......ARE YOU KIDDING ME! I would be more than happy to learn my way around for the chance to do the job that I am trained in and have done for years.
> :sb:


 AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW....I rather have the experienced officer, but thats just me..Then these towns wonder why they have no money..OH! GPS works just fine, until you learn your way around...Or maybe the Chief needs to put little Johnny or Suzi on because he owes duddy a favor.....


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## mpr4601

This whole GPS thing has been driving me crazy since they started popping up at work. Aside from the big suction cup marks all over the windshield, my beef if what happens when the boot forgets to bring the thing in, or it breaks, or whatever. They need to learn the lay of the land first, and then bring in a GPS if they really feel the need.


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## OfficerObie59

Delta784 said:


> We have a very shortened (2 weeks = 8 shifts) FTO program for academy trained people, which isn't nearly long enough for someone with no knowledge of the city to learn even the basic streets and landmarks. The experienced cops from other departments are of no use to me whatsoever when I'm getting my ass kicked, if they don't know how to get to where I am.


Granted Delta, I don't work for your city, but I just don't see the argument regarding laterals not knowing the roads. It would seem to me the solution would be to revise and extend the training program to something a bit longer. Two weeks seems extraordinarily short, lateral or not; you need more time than that to not only learn the roads, but the expections, policies, SOP, and politics of the dept. and your superiors.

My department has had a mix of laterals and new officers over the past few years, and no issues have presented themselves regarding finding streets. There officers on my job who sometimes have to look up streets becuase of the municipalities size and becuase of the constant growth we've been expiriencing over the past decade; it seems like every two weeks a new residential development pops up. I don't see any shame in that; sometime's there's no other option. Even now after being on a few years, I sometimes have to consult my map book which can be found in ANY cruiser. When it's a really hot call, I get directions from dispatch.

After a couple weeks, any decent officer--whether it be a transfer or new academy grad--can learn the main roadways and the side streets follow. And any new officer hearing a call go out that he's not dispatched to should be looking the street up anyways in case add'l backup is needed.

I dunno, like Fra, I personally know a couple of those guys on that layoff list. I may be injecting some personal feelings on behalf of those brother officers into this opinion, but I could guarantee four of those names on the list could be great officers in any city given the proper training.


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## Guest

OfficerObie59 said:


> My department has had a mix of laterals and new officers over the past few years, and no issues have presented themselves regarding finding streets.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lateral must live in the municipality; I'm talking about someone who has no connection at all to the city/town.

If I were hired by your department tomorrow, I would have absolutley no idea how to even find the police station, never mind the main roadways. One time I had to answer a mutual aid call in Weymouth, I had to have directions relayed to me from the WPD dispatcher, and that's the next town over.


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## fra444

Delta I have an awful memory for names, this includes names of streets. I still have to pull out the map. Hot call or not. It only takes a matter of seconds to figure out where I'm going. 

Now in a new community I would ABSOLUTELY need to learn the main roads and know where they are in relation to my location, but once I did I would be able to navigate your city like I do mine.



And jay-z, I am truly hoping that your response to Irish, "AWWWWWWW" is not your attempt at trying to disrespect a laid-off LEO! As I read his post it seems like he is a laid off Officer and has strong feelings about this because it involves more than just posting on a web-site. It involves feeding and housing his FAMILY!!!!!

If I misunderstood I apologize. If not GO BANG YOUR ANKLES!


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## Irishpride

Delta,
Your city's position is what it is and I hope they are prepared to be shorthanded for a very long time because I really don't see that list getting smaller (or going away, anytime soon). In regards to getting to know the city, just like every other cop I know, I made sacrifices to get the job I had and I'd be willing to make sacrifices for a new PD. If that meant spending extra time driving around the city, studying maps, and so on to make sure that I knew my way around then so be it. 

Jay Z,
Like FRA posted, I'm also hoping that your AWWWW comment was not an attempt to throw a shot at the situation myself and the other laid off cops are facing, but if I'm wrong the shoot me a PM


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## OfficerObie59

Delta784 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lateral must live in the municipality; I'm talking about someone who has no connection at all to the city/town.


 Nope, I know for certain two of our incoming laterals never moved, and one who actually lateraled _out_ of my dept. still lives here in town. As long as they meet 41/99, I seen no issue.


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## Guest

fra444 said:


> Delta I have an awful memory for names, this includes names of streets. I still have to pull out the map. Hot call or not. It only takes a matter of seconds to figure out where I'm going.


In a way, you're proving my point....it takes a matter of seconds for you because you know the overall layout of the city. If you told me that a street in Fall River was off <insert main road here>, it would mean nothing to me.


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## jay-z

fra444 said:


> Delta I have an awful memory for names, this includes names of streets. I still have to pull out the map. Hot call or not. It only takes a matter of seconds to figure out where I'm going.
> 
> Now in a new community I would ABSOLUTELY need to learn the main roads and know where they are in relation to my location, but once I did I would be able to navigate your city like I do mine.
> 
> And jay-z, I am truly hoping that your response to Irish, "AWWWWWWW" is not your attempt at trying to disrespect a laid-off LEO! As I read his post it seems like he is a laid off Officer and has strong feelings about this because it involves more than just posting on a web-site. It involves feeding and housing his FAMILY!!!!!
> 
> If I misunderstood I apologize. If not GO BANG YOUR ANKLES!


 No! #-o My AWWWWWWW, is not towards any laid Officers at all, some how the wrong quote got in. It's towards any Officers that think a experienced Officer is not good enough to come to his/her town to work...I work for an agency that covers most if not all of MA, and from experience, if I hear one of my own or another towns Officer going to a hot call or not so hot, I still start heading that way. I do have to agree with all in here give me the experienced Officer no matter where from, over the townie that just graduated...Two weeks of FTO, come on, I once worked for a small town and the FTO program was 8 weeks...


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## Guest

jay-z said:


> Two weeks of FTO, come on, I once worked for a small town and the FTO program was 8 weeks...


Try reading for comprehension...I said the FTO program for academy-trained, experienced officers is 2 weeks. Our regular FTO is 8 weeks.


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## dave7336

Delta784 said:


> I can see both sides...getting trained, experienced cops is great, but at the same time, it would be rather frustrating to have to explain to layoff hires where Hancock and Washington Streets are located.


We have experienced officers that have been on my department for 20 plus years that still need to be told where some streets are located


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## Guest

dave7336 said:


> We have experienced officers that have been on my department for 20 plus years that still need to be told where some streets are located


"Some" streets, yes.

Main streets, no.


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## OfficerObie59

Delta784 said:


> ...the FTO program for academy-trained, experienced officers is 2 weeks. Our regular FTO is 8 weeks.


My department is way over onto the other extreme. OTJ training basically consists of riding with a random senior officer every shift. It's about about 6 months for new recruits and about half that for laterals. (Don't bother telling me how messed up you think it is; it's not the way I personally think an "FTO program" should be.)

While I think the amount of time is a bit much, I think Delta's dept is the other extreme...most places I've heard of with bona fide FTO programs run about 3 months.

Even looking back a few years later and realizing how green I was then, I can confidently say I would have been okay with just that. As my six months was drawing to a close, my motivation began to wain riding along with the same guys over and over and over and over, many of whom had not desire to be paired up with a gung-ho nOOb.


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## Guest

OfficerObie59 said:


> While I think the amount of time is a bit much, I think Delta's dept is the other extreme...most places I've heard of with bona fide FTO programs run about 3 months.


We use the "San Diego model"....all I know is that I quit being an FTO because the paperwork is a nightmare.

To show you how times have changed, when I was hired by the QPD (already academy trained), I rode with a veteran for one shift, then I was tossed to the wolves.


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## John J

OfficerObie59 said:


> As long as they meet 41/99, I seen no issue.


Forgive my ignorance, but what is 41/99?


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## Guest

John J said:


> Forgive my ignorance, but what is 41/99?


I think he means 41/99A.....MGL Chapter 41 Section 99A, which states all police officers shall live within 15 miles of the municipality where they work;

M.G.L. - Chapter 41, Section 99a


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## OfficerObie59

Delta784 said:


> I think he means 41/99A


Yup. My bad.


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