# Eligibility List



## lawlady

I live in a city that will be hiring 10 officers. I am number 20 on a list and therefore hould be receiving a card from civil service becuase 21 (2n+1) is the amount of cards that should be called according to civil service for the hiring of 10 officers. However, I have heard that the Mayor has called for a "minority list" for 50% of the new hires. The way that is was explained to me from the Personnel Dept is that they take all of the minorities off of the regular list and then use the 2n+1 formula for the regular list and the minority list. Therefore, that would yield 11 candidates from the regular list and 11 candidates from the minority list. So basically I will not even get a card from civil service becuase there are not enough minorities above me. Is this legal? The Personnel Department said they have never done this before. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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## Bulldog

I have no idea if what you stated is accurate, but your math may not be accurate. You have to take into account that some of numbers 1-19 may be in the minority category.


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## LGriffin

Do you speak Spanish?


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## 263FPD

What he said.

There will be a few that will be washed out in the process. Good luck, being #20 is a good place to be. I was further back on our list, and still got the job.


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## Sam1974

This thread makes me nervous....


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## 47turksinajar

Minority lists.... Of course it's illegal, that would be discrimination to nonminorities. Feel free to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring this to court. You'll win but, then you probably won't get an interview


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## 7costanza

I have seen plenty of female only lists also...


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## LGriffin

It's not just sitting to pee that gets you places these days, you've gotta have an ethnic flair as well.


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## 7costanza

> It's not just sitting to pee that gets you places these days


If that was the case Nuke TRT would have made Lt. by now.


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## Guest

7costanza said:


> I have seen plenty of female only lists also...


The term is "gender-specific", you insensitive cretin.


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## SgtAndySipowicz

*Re: Best candidate should get job*

The best candidate should ALWAYS get the job. It should have nothing to do with gender, race etc etc. I want the best police officers working beside me, not someone who got the job because of their skin color, sex etc etc. When a top notch candidate is passed over due to quotas etc it not only screws that candidate but the public as well as they now have a mediocre Cop instead of that top notch one they could have had. I know there was a "female only" list a few years back where I work. It didn't affect me, but I would have been rip shit if I got passed over for someone who scored lower but got it because of gender.............


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## cc3915

*Re: Best candidate should get job*



SgtAndySipowicz said:


> The best candidate should ALWAYS get the job. It should have nothing to do with gender, race etc etc. I want the best police officers working beside me, not someone who got the job because of their skin color, sex etc etc. When a top notch candidate is passed over due to quotas etc it not only screws that candidate but the public as well as they now have a mediocre Cop instead of that top notch one they could have had. I know there was a "female only" list a few years back where I work. It didn't affect me, but I would have been rip shit if I got passed over for someone who scored lower but got it because of gender.............


I can't agree with you more. I rode once with one of these gender AND race hires. All she did was knit in the seat next to me as I drove. I refused to ride with her and was put up on charges for insubordination. The charges against me were eventually dropped and she was eventually fired because her son took her department issued gun and committed a street robbery with it in the hood.


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## lawlady

This list is for minorities and woman are not considered minorities. There were only a few minorities above me so when they took them off as part of the "PAR 10 Rule" I didn't move up as much as minorities who scored lower did. I am not fluent in Spanish but I can get by. I am very disappointed seeing as Civil Service was put in place to promote those who score highest and to prevent political favoritism. What about Equal Opportunity Employment- a fair chance regardless of gender, race, religion or sexual orientation etc.?


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## 263FPD

Looking at your September 2009 join date, it is clear that you have done a bit of lurking here prior to making your first post. That being said, I would imagine that you have at least some sort of a grasp of how unfair the whole process can be.

While I agree with SgtAndy that the job should go to the most qualified candidate, I also know that the reality of Massachusetts Politics dictates quite the opposite in practice.

I know how you feel because I waited close to five years to get on the job. I too thought that the process would be more based on scores rather then somethig else. I found out how things really worked, once I was actually on the job.

In all fairness, the score itself is no indicator to me, as to how good of a cop someone would become once hired. I have FTO'ed my fair share of new Officers over the years. I can tell you that a small handful have been total train wrecks in the field although their academic abilities in the academy and their initial scores on the CS test made them look like they were the best thing since sliced bread.

I understand your frustration and wish you luck. Posting about it here, will not make your process become any more fair.

I wish I could give you better advise, but without knowing your score, the department in question, and who your competition may be, I simply could not make an educated guess.


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## davejoyce2000

lawlady said:


> I live in a city that will be hiring 10 officers. I am number 20 on a list and therefore hould be receiving a card from civil service becuase 21 (2n+1) is the amount of cards that should be called according to civil service for the hiring of 10 officers. However, I have heard that the Mayor has called for a "minority list" for 50% of the new hires. The way that is was explained to me from the Personnel Dept is that they take all of the minorities off of the regular list and then use the 2n+1 formula for the regular list and the minority list. Therefore, that would yield 11 candidates from the regular list and 11 candidates from the minority list. So basically I will not even get a card from civil service becuase there are not enough minorities above me. Is this legal? The Personnel Department said they have never done this before. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


Which city do you live in?


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## 263FPD

davejoyce2000 said:


> Which city do you live in?


 I doubt she'll tell us.


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## OfficerObie59

I wouldn't flame this question...did enough research to at least know of the 2n+1 formula...

I think the city could manipulate the process if they wanted to. For example, pull minority certs only until they get their 5 minority hires--then go back and pull another certification from the top of the list to fill the other 5. Just because they've never done it before doesn't mean it can't be done. If you do get passed over, keep in mind that while a CS appeal can be big bucks, that list will expire this fall--and I can't see any city hiring more than 10 by then, particularly after this new budget is passed.

At a minimum, wait to see what happens. I've heard of cities pulling PAR10 lists, but still being unable to get the number of minority hires they sought for whatever reason. You can then consult with a good civil service firm like Sandulli afterwards--just make sure you get on the ball quickly.


263FPD said:


> I doubt she'll tell us.


I wouldn't either.

Being in the running for hiring, you need to be spotless, and anyone with a CS account can switch their listing to not only out her for posting, but could in theory bump her down the list if they're ranked higher than she is--particularly since with a minority list, there's a likelihood of non-residents getting postcards.

I know it sounds blue falconish, but if I was ranked #20, I wouldn't be saying shit about where I was going. Next think you know, you check in to your CS account and you go from 20 to 32...


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## LGriffin

Frankly, Lawlady, I got a 101 on my last civil service exam with experience points and being on the job. I still had to drop every dime I had while I watched minorities who showed up in club clothes move through the process faster.
It sucks out there.
I wish you all the best.


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## 263FPD

OfficerObie59 said:


> I wouldn't flame this question...did enough research to at least know of the 2n+1 formula...
> 
> I think the city could manipulate the process if they wanted to. For example, pull minority certs only until they get their 5 minority hires--then go back and pull another certification from the top of the list to fill the other 5. Just because they've never done it before doesn't mean it can't be done. If you do get passed over, keep in mind that while a CS appeal can be big bucks, that list will expire this fall--and I can't see any city hiring more than 10 by then, particularly after this new budget is passed.
> 
> At a minimum, wait to see what happens. I've heard of cities pulling PAR10 lists, but still being unable to get the number of minority hires they sought for whatever reason. You can then consult with a good civil service firm like Sandulli afterwards--just make sure you get on the ball quickly.
> 
> I wouldn't either.
> 
> Being in the running for hiring, you need to be spotless, and anyone with a CS account can switch their listing to not only out her for posting, but could in theory bump her down the list if they're ranked higher than she is--particularly since with a minority list, there's a likelihood of non-residents getting postcards.
> 
> I know it sounds blue falconish, but if I was ranked #20, I wouldn't be saying shit about where I was going. Next think you know, you check in to your CS account and you go from 20 to 32...


Definately would not flame her post. The question is legitamate. I really do feel for her. Being this close and finding out that you are on a back burner because the town/city feels the need to dip down lower on the list just to show their diversity, has got to suck.

All I can tell her is, keep the faith. Your time will come.


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## honor12900

Lawlady I'm very aware of what city your talking about and I know the process behind it. Don't be discouraged your still in a good spot and there is a chance that you will get a card. Good luck trying to get on and if you have any more questions you can PM me if you like.


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## pt103

Hi there. I've been following this site for a few years now and it's only fair that I begin to contribute to the site for the vast info it had help me. Here goes....my first post...

I'm one of those minorities that speak a few languages and scored 99 on my 09 civil exam. BPD sent the certs out looking to fill 30 slots for the June cadet program. I got one; I was number 6 on the list; looks very promising right? I went to the orientation and was given two weeks to gather everything about me on paper, from school transcripts, to credit report, to neighbor's assessment, to references, and employer's attendance record to supervisory letters and HR files.....etc.....and all have to be notarized. Finally after two weeks of chasing my own tail, I was able to get everything in order; showed up at 6am for the 8am interview. I had a chance to talk to other recruits and one of the topic was the score: some got 82, others 89, 92, and 94. I have yet spoken to anyone who had scored higher than me, so I was reassured. After everyone had signed in. I got photographed, fingerprinted, next was the hair sample. A Det. called me asside and told me that "the commissioner felt that we have enough candidates to make our selection, therefore, there is no need for non-residence. You can take the test again in April. Good luck" and that was it. My heart dropped and I didn't know what to say because, I'm still processing what he said. 

This morning, I woke up with an email from the MSP saying that they will be sending out certs and I was selected. I was so happy and later followed by a phone call from the MSP. 

This time, at least I don't have to worry about residency preference and hope I get a fair chance at the selection process.


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## honor12900

pt103 said:


> Hi there. I've been following this site for a few years now and it's only fair that I begin to contribute to the site for the vast info it had help me. Here goes....my first post...
> 
> I'm one of those minorities that speak a few languages and scored 99 on my 09 civil exam. BPD sent the certs out looking to fill 30 slots for the June cadet program. I got one; I was number 6 on the list; looks very promising right? I went to the orientation and was given two weeks to gather everything about me on paper, from school transcripts, to credit report, to neighbor's assessment, to references, and employer's attendance record to supervisory letters and HR files.....etc.....and all have to be notarized. Finally after two weeks of chasing my own tail, I was able to get everything in order; showed up at 6am for the 8am interview. I had a chance to talk to other recruits and one of the topic was the score: some got 82, others 89, 92, and 94. I have yet spoken to anyone who had scored higher than me, so I was reassured. After everyone had signed in. I got photographed, fingerprinted, next was the hair sample. A Det. called me asside and told me that "the commissioner felt that we have enough candidates to make our selection, therefore, there is no need for non-residence. You can take the test again in April. Good luck" and that was it. My heart dropped and I didn't know what to say because, I'm still processing what he said.
> 
> This morning, I woke up with an email from the MSP saying that they will be sending out certs and I was selected. I was so happy and later followed by a phone call from the MSP.
> 
> This time, at least I don't have to worry about residency preference and hope I get a fair chance at the selection process.


Thats a tough break with Boston. Good luck with the hiring process with MSP. You have another long road ahead of you but its completely worth it in the end.


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## Bloodhound

My job is hiring 5, and a whopping 5 whole people signed the list, so we have to request more names. I don't think that's happened in a very, very long time.


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## 263FPD

Wow, five hah?

I can't imagine where you might be working. How freaking bad cold it be when people don't have an interest in working for your agency.


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## 263FPD

It could be legit. Then it could also be a one of those Nigerian Internet scams. "Send us $2,500 and we will deliver your French and electric blue cruiser right to your door"


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## pt103

I have nothing to prove or gain by this. I'm just sharing my experience with BPD and MSP process so far. Take it however you want....I'm just contributing my account and my account only. It might be different for others. The MSP recruiter knew my score and my race; he wants to confirm how fluent I am in the languages I indicated on the exam. 

The reason why I held out so long in joining MC was that most of the time posts are ridicule and attacked; it should be read as posted bc everyone's account/process is different. I thouhgt this site suppose to be informative and helpful to those seeking a career in law enforcement. 

One my very first post; since I mentioned that I was a minority, I was attacked right away. The fact that I scored high and speak multiple languages has no bearing on the discussion. I was planning on starting a new thread detailing my account and timeline of the MSP process from the intial exam in 09 to the graduation (or however far I made it). Sort of a journal entry, but I'm having second thought because I feel that the thread will not be informative but rather fill with attacks and ridicule.

Good luck to those trying to get into LE. This is a great site, but you need to siff through all the bs to get what you want. Good day.


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## kwflatbed

Instead of a new thread try this:

Blog

Total Entries: 0
Last Blog Entry: Never 
View all blog entries by pt103


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## honor12900

pt103 said:


> I have nothing to prove or gain by this. I'm just sharing my experience with BPD and MSP process so far. Take it however you want....I'm just contributing my account and my account only. It might be different for others. The MSP recruiter knew my score and my race; he wants to confirm how fluent I am in the languages I indicated on the exam.
> 
> The reason why I held out so long in joining MC was that most of the time posts are ridicule and attacked; it should be read as posted bc everyone's account/process is different. I thouhgt this site suppose to be informative and helpful to those seeking a career in law enforcement.
> 
> One my very first post; since I mentioned that I was a minority, I was attacked right away. The fact that I scored high and speak multiple languages has no bearing on the discussion. I was planning on starting a new thread detailing my account and timeline of the MSP process from the intial exam in 09 to the graduation (or however far I made it). Sort of a journal entry, but I'm having second thought because I feel that the thread will not be informative but rather fill with attacks and ridicule.
> 
> Good luck to those trying to get into LE. This is a great site, but you need to siff through all the bs to get what you want. Good day.


If you think two comments on here were attacking you I wouldn't read too much into it. Thats amatour hour compared to what kind of "attacks" you will get in the oral board, academy and on the job. If you make it that far of course. Ball breaking is par for the course in this line of work. Believe me :smoke:


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## 263FPD

You were attacked? Really? Who attacked you? 

And now of course you're throwing out the good old race card. No one here cares about the color of your skin, just the thickness of your skin comes in to question. Good luck with your quest.


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## 7costanza

Ahhh the Race Card, never leave home without it.


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## Bloodhound

263FPD said:


> Wow, five hah?
> 
> I can't imagine where you might be working. How freaking bad cold it be when people don't have an interest in working for your agency.


I'm pretty surprised, it's not a bad gig at all!


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## lofu

kwflatbed said:


> Instead of a new thread try this:
> 
> Blog
> 
> Total Entries: 0
> Last Blog Entry: Never
> View all blog entries by pt103


Yes please!!! I would be very interested to read a daily post as to what is going on out there at New Braintree. Don't let the naysayers discourage you, I saw DO IT!!!


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## LGriffin

pt103 said:


> I have nothing to prove or gain by this. I'm just sharing my experience with BPD and MSP process so far. Take it however you want....I'm just contributing my account and my account only. It might be different for others. The MSP recruiter knew my score and my race; he wants to confirm how fluent I am in the languages I indicated on the exam.
> 
> The reason why I held out so long in joining MC was that most of the time posts are ridicule and attacked; it should be read as posted bc everyone's account/process is different. I thouhgt this site suppose to be informative and helpful to those seeking a career in law enforcement.
> 
> One my very first post; since I mentioned that I was a minority, I was attacked right away. The fact that I scored high and speak multiple languages has no bearing on the discussion. I was planning on starting a new thread detailing my account and timeline of the MSP process from the intial exam in 09 to the graduation (or however far I made it). Sort of a journal entry, but I'm having second thought because I feel that the thread will not be informative but rather fill with attacks and ridicule.
> 
> Good luck to those trying to get into LE. This is a great site, but you need to siff through all the bs to get what you want. Good day.


Wow, let's hope you don't get on. Your rant is wrought with errors and you're easily provoked so i'm guessing BPD found something on your background. 
Getting lucky filling in a bubble test can only get you so far...


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## 263FPD

pt103, I am a little confused. If you say that you aren't a City of Boston resident, then how is it that you got an invitation to participate in a Cadet Program in the first place? I thought that there were rules and guide lines set forth by the BPD, that would make that impossible. Or is it that you lied on your application about where you live and they figured it out? Nice first post. Very articulate. But your second post, well I could see that you hot a little flustered by what you percieved as an attack. 

You say that you have been following MC for a while yet you have learned nothing about the membership here. Eeryone including myself has had to endure a nit of ribbing on their first few posts. It is a right of passage of you will. It separates members from trolls. So far, you are placing your self closer to the troll category. You say you felt attacked? Wait till your first day in New Braintree, that is if you even make it that far. If you are this delicate, don't bother packing your toothbrush. You will be back home on day one.


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## pt103

Not impossible, there are exceptions to the rule. For instance, sons and daughters of fallen BPD does not have to be Boston resident. 

In my case, lets say BPD needs to fill 15 slots that speaks Spanish, and they're not confident in achieving that; they will obtain non-resident Spanish speaking candidates. The chance of the non-res to be picked is not know until the day of the interview . At the interview process, if BPD felt they have enough residents to fill the slots, then the non-res will be sent home before the start of the interview. If not, the non-res will go through the process with the residents. If selected, the non-res has to move to Boston prior to the academy start date. And there is exeption to that if you own your own home.


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## 263FPD

I thought we were talking about the cadet program. So it was not for the cadet program? It was for the actual police position?


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## pt103

that's correct.


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## 263FPD

Then why did you mention the Cadets in your first post?

By the way what is this exception you speak of for the people who own their own homes? I happen to know latteral transfer that had to sell his home in Framingham and buy one in Boston so that he could comply with the residency rule.


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## pt103

True..eventually you would have to move to Boston, but you have more lead ways, just not at the start of the academy.


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## 263FPD

What the freak is a "lead way"?


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## cc3915

He must have meant "leeway". He'll never pass Report Writing 101.


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## niteowl1970

263FPD said:


> What the freak is a "lead way"?


It's the new MSP lingo a memo went out last month.


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## pt103

oops...my bad...typo...WTF


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## cc3915

pt103 said:


> oops...my bad...typo...WTF


That's not a typo. It's a failure to grasp the spelling of a common english word (leeway) by replacing it with two words (lead way).



> A *typographical error* (often shortened to *typo*) is a mistake made in, originally, the manual type-setting (typography) of printed material, or more recently, the typing process. The term includes errors due to mechanical failure or slips of the hand or finger,[1] but *usually excludes errors of ignorance*, such as spelling errors. Before the arrival of printing, the "copyist's mistake" or "scribal error" was the equivalent for manuscripts. Most typos involve simple duplication, omission, transposition, or substitution of a small number of characters.
> As many typos are caused by a finger accidentally hitting two adjacent keys of a keyboard in a single keystroke during data entry (for example, buckled instead of bucked due to the adjacency of the L key to the K key on many keyboards), the term *fat finger* (often in the combination "fat-finger syndrome") is used as slang for accidental typing slips.


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## LGriffin

All of these mistaken cliches remind me of


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## 263FPD

LGriffin said:


> All of these mistaken cliches remind me of Balki Bartokomous - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Balki was Bi-Lingual was he not?


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## LGriffin

LGriffin said:


> I believe so but most of the laughs came from the way he butchered the English language, much like *out *new friend.


*our
Damn, It's contagious.


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## 9319

I'm a resident, a vet, soon to be a college grad...but im white. I must have missed the fine print...









:stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp:


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## Guest

Javert said:


> I'm a resident, a vet, soon to be a college grad...but im white. I must have missed the fine print...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp::stomp:


That was a valid excuse back in the 80's, but most municipalities are not under consent decrees anymore.


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## rireserve

As far as the orginal post is concerned I believe I read a story about this in the Lynn Item. It referenced LPD hiring ten and five would be off a specialty list. Now as to the issue of people not signing the list, my job sent out cards for 3 positions and only 4 people turned in their packets. I find this odd. When I was getting on everyone turned in a packet. Even the shitheads who had no chance of getting the job due to multiple disqualifiers i.e convictions turned in their packets. Just a bit strange I guess.


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## Eagle13

rireserve said:


> As far as the orginal post is concerned I believe I read a story about this in the Lynn Item. It referenced LPD hiring ten and five would be off a specialty list. Now as to the issue of people not signing the list, my job sent out cards for 3 positions and only 4 people turned in their packets. I find this odd. When I was getting on everyone turned in a packet. Even the shitheads who had no chance of getting the job due to multiple disqualifiers i.e convictions turned in their packets. Just a bit strange I guess.


I need to apply at your agency! 4? only 4? wow. I am hoping that people will be discouraged enough to not apply or take tests when I do. :smug:


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## OfficerObie59

rireserve said:


> As far as the orginal post is concerned I believe I read a story about this in the Lynn Item. It referenced LPD hiring ten and five would be off a specialty list. Now as to the issue of people not signing the list, my job sent out cards for 3 positions and only 4 people turned in their packets. I find this odd. When I was getting on everyone turned in a packet. Even the shitheads who had no chance of getting the job due to multiple disqualifiers i.e convictions turned in their packets. Just a bit strange I guess.


There tends to be less interest towards the end of the list cycle--people move on, things change...


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