# Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser(Merged Threads)



## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*The Canadian PressThe Record (Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario)*










AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Deddeda Stemler

Paul Pritchard, 25, who witnessed and recorded the death of Robert Dziekanski.

A man who videotaped the last moments of an agitated Polish immigrant at Vancouver's airport said yesterday he heard a Mountie say, "Should I Taser him?'' as soon as police arrived at the scene of the disturbance.
Paul Pritchard of Victoria said he wants the public to see his video, but the RCMP have it as evidence in the investigation of the death of Robert Dziekanski.
Last night, the Mounties held a news conference in Vancouver where they said Pritchard will get his video back shortly, but they couldn't give an exact date.
Dziekanski, 40, died on Oct. 14, hours after he arrived at Vancouver International Airport. He was on his way to Kamloops to live with his mother in the B.C. Interior.
Pritchard, 25, said he'll be in court today to demand RCMP return his video recording of the incident.
The statement of claim filed by Pritchard's lawyer said the English language teacher was originally told the police would return the video in 48 hours, but an RCMP official later said Pritchard may have to wait up to two and a half years to get the video back.
RCMP Cpl. Dale Carr said the Mounties intend to return the video, which they say is the best record of what happened when officers confronted an agitated Dziekanski at Vancouver airport's international arrivals area.
"The goal of hanging onto video longer than anticipated was simply to protect the integrity of a very, very serious investigation,'' he said. "Our No. 1 goal is to do a truthful, fair and unbiased investigation.''
Pritchard, flanked by lawyer Paul Pearson, described what he saw at the Vancouver airport. He said he believes his video captures much of the incident, including the police arriving at the scene and almost immediately using the Taser.
"As they ran in, I heard one of the officers say, 'Can I Taser him, should I Taser?' him before they actually even got to Mr. Dziekanski,'' said Pritchard, who lives in Victoria.
"As soon as they crossed through the doors, within five seconds they kind of flushed him behind a desk and right away they Tasered him.''
The Taser hit Dziekanski in the right forearm and Pritchard said it appeared he tried to pull the Taser from his arm before he fell to the floor, where he lay convulsing.
"I thought I better keep the camera rolling,'' Pritchard said. "The audio's got zapping and electric pulses.''
He said he heard one of the Mounties yell ''Code Red'' and between five to eight minutes later, paramedics arrived and immediately began life-saving efforts on Dziekanski.
The officers stood near Dziekanski as they waited for paramedics to arrive.
"All of our stomachs kind of went sick,'' said Pritchard, referring to himself and other witnesses.
He said Dziekanski had been causing a scene in for about 25 minutes before security officials arrived.
Pritchard said he saw him throw what he thought was a computer keyboard or computer at one time, but Dziekanski was mostly yelling and pacing.
Several people in the area approached Dziekanski and asked if they could help, but none were successful, Pritchard said.
"None of us felt threatened at any time,'' he said.
"Women were going right up to him trying to calm him down. It was more fear of what he was going to do to himself.''
Pritchard was at the airport because he was returning home to Victoria to visit his ailing father. He had been travelling and teaching in China.
Pritchard said he voluntarily turned over the video to police after the RCMP promised they would give it back within two days. He said police have since told him he'll get his footage back, but it could take more than two years.
He said he co-operated fully with the police and "they thanked me and praised me.''
Pritchard said police told him the video will provide a clear picture of what happened at the airport.
"I felt important. I felt I was helping the cause,'' he said.
But Pritchard said he started to get worried about getting his video back when police started to say they were delaying its return.
"It's all there, minutes and minutes of the chain of events,'' Pritchard said. "The answer's on the tape.''
A statement of claim filed Oct. 25 in B.C. Supreme Court in Victoria says the RCMP breached Pritchard's rights against unreasonable seizure by not returning the video after 48 hours as earlier agreed.
Pearson said federal justice officials acting for the RCMP contacted him yesterday to say they are preparing to speed up their legal case, but the matter will still be heard in court today.








Wire Service


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

Ha it's Canada, the mounties are fucked. If you think there is a lack of real support for law enforcement in the US, the Canadians make us look like cop lovers.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

*Canada Suspect Dies after Tasering *

*The Associated Press*

VANCOUVER, British Columbia -- 
Video released this week by Canadian authorities of the last moments of a Polish immigrant's life show police using a Taser on him shortly after they encountered him at Vancouver's airport.
Robert Dziekanski, 40, of Pieszyce, Poland, arrived at the airport 10 hours earlier on Oct. 14 - his first airplane flight to begin a new life with his mother in western Canada.
Dziekanski began acting erratically after not seeing his mother in the baggage area, a secure area his mother could not enter.
A coroner's inquest has been called and police have launched their own investigation.
Police Cpl. Dale Carr says the video is just one small piece of evidence and investigators are not making the case on that alone.
"There are a number of other witnesses that have an account and we are interested in getting to the bottom of it," Carr said. "We want people to make judgment on the totality of all of the evidence and that will be shared at the inquest."
But Walter Kosteckyj, a lawyer for the Dziekanski's mother, said he hopes the video holds the police accountable for their actions.
The video shot by traveler Paul Pritchard shows Dziekanski lining up chairs, a small wooden table and a clipboard along the doors separating the secure zone from the public waiting area.
The doors open and shut as he builds a barricade. Four police officers later arrive and confront an agitated Dziekanski.
Loud cries of what sound like "polizia," can be heard as the officers are told by someone that the man is behind the door and only speaks Russian.
The officers vault over a railing and walk Dziekanski behind the glass doors. He gestures at his luggage as they appear to be talking to him.
He then throws his hands in the air and walks away, but the officers follow, apparently indicating he should put his hands on the counter of a desk.
Dziekanski stands with his back to the counter and the officers fan around him before they use a Taser stun gun on him and he falls, screaming in pain.
A voice is heard yelling, "Hit him again, hit him again."
The four officers clamber on top of him, restraining his arms and his head, as Dziekanski twitches. Finally, he is still.








Wire Service


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

look it is simple, if the cops tell you do quit fucking around, that's what you do.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



SOT said:


> look it is simple, if the cops tell you do quit fucking around, that's what you do.


That doesn't justify tasering a non-hostile man, especially when you already have him restrained. There's already too many incidents of law enforcement using tasers in non violent situations when they already have matters in control. The man didn't have a weapon and wasn't throwing punches at anyone. Some officers are using the tasers like they use pepper spray. Tasers are potentially lethal, just like a firearm. They need to be used as a last line of defense, not in non-violent situations where people aren't cooperating. I'm not defending the guys actions, but the matter could've been resolved without resorting to lethal force.


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## Foxy85 (Mar 29, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> Tasers are potentially lethal, just like a firearm. They need to be used as a last line of defense, not in non-violent situations where people aren't cooperating. I'm not defending the guys actions, but the matter could've been resolved without resorting to lethal force.


Not sure...maybe someone can back me up on this, but from what an instructor told me, no one has ever died from an actual taser shot. Some may have had a side affect from the taser, maybe a heart attack or something, but the taser itself can't kill anyone....

Anyone heard the same?


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## Andy0921 (Jan 12, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> . Some officers are using the tasers like they use pepper spray..


I would much rather tase someone before spraying them.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> That doesn't justify tasering a non-hostile man, especially when you already have him restrained. There's already too many incidents of law enforcement using tasers in non violent situations when they already have matters in control. The man didn't have a weapon and wasn't throwing punches at anyone. Some officers are using the tasers like they use pepper spray. Tasers are potentially lethal, just like a firearm. They need to be used as a last line of defense, not in non-violent situations where people aren't cooperating. I'm not defending the guys actions, but the matter could've been resolved without resorting to lethal force.


Why don't you go tell your plumber to re-wire your house.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Foxy85 said:


> Not sure...maybe someone can back me up on this, but from what an instructor told me, no one has ever died from an actual taser shot. Some may have had a side affect from the taser, maybe a heart attack or something, but the taser itself can't kill anyone....
> 
> Anyone heard the same?


Taser International has claimed that their tasers haven't killed anyone, but tobacco companies will claim the same about their products.

Here's atleast one case where a taser was the direct cause of death:

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0730taser30.html

Here's the video of this incident:






The taser killed the guy, his own stupidity was the secondary cause of death. The guy seemed to be having a panic attack the whole time before he was tasered. There was no reason to taser that guy, honestly. Why is it that police can't restrain people without using tasers like they used to in places where tasers are allowed...

The Taser company claim that the tasers aren't killing all these people... right. Do firearm companies claim their guns don't kill people because it's the bullets that are really causing death... Honestly...


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> Taser International has claimed that their tasers haven't killed anyone, but tobacco companies will claim the same about their products.
> 
> Here's atleast one case where a taser was the direct cause of death:
> 
> ...


*The big question WERE YOU THERE ???????*
*Or were you smoking a little of your favorite weed.*
*The only thing that is true is if you are born you will die.*
*Taser deaths have been proven that the biggest problem*
*has been the drugs in the perps system not the taser that*
*killed them.*


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> That doesn't justify tasering a non-hostile man, especially when you already have him restrained. *There's already too many incidents of law enforcement using tasers in non violent situations when they already have matters in control.* The man didn't have a weapon and wasn't throwing punches at anyone. Some officers are using the tasers like they use pepper spray. Tasers are potentially lethal, just like a firearm. They need to be used as a last line of defense, not in non-violent situations where people aren't cooperating. I'm not defending the guys actions, but the matter could've been resolved without resorting to lethal force.


You are clearly not in the field based on the above higlighted quote. Why dont you go to a forum that gives a shit about your bleeding heart "cops are mean" sentiments. Masscops isnt it.


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## Guest (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



csauce777 said:


> You are clearly not in the field based on the above higlighted quote. Why dont you go to a forum that gives a shit about your bleeding heart "cops are mean" sentiments. Masscops isnt it.


When the fuck did I say anything about 'cops are mean.' Why would I post here if I thought that way? Use that feeble mind of yours for one second and fucking think before you speak. I'm clearly not in the field of what? I simply stated that there wasn't any need to taser that man. The man didn't even speak english, he was clearly scared, he was of no threat to anyone and the man was fucking tasered for a total of over a minute and then causing death.

Why don't you make a halfway intelligent argument instead of resorting to sophmoric attacks.

It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand what excessive force is.

Yes, in most cases the victims did have drugs in their system which helped lead to their deaths after being tasered. However, in every case I've read they've stated that wouldn't have died from just the drugs. The drug has most occasionally been methamphetamine that has killed people after being tasered. Why? Well methamphetamine causes your heart to race and causes your blood pressure to go through the roof, and the tasers will stop your heart the entire time, put the two together...


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> When the fuck did I say anything about 'cops are mean.' Why would I post here if I thought that way? Use that feeble mind of yours for one second and fucking think before you speak. I'm clearly not in the field of what? I simply stated that there wasn't any need to taser that man. The man didn't even speak english, he was clearly scared, he was of no threat to anyone and the man was fucking tasered for a total of over a minute and then causing death.
> 
> *The big question is WERE YOU THERE ???????*
> 
> ...


*The big question WERE YOU THERE ???????*


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> When the fuck did I say anything about 'cops are mean.' Why would I post here if I thought that way?


You didnt say it directly, but it's easy enough to read.



> Use that feeble mind of yours for one second and fucking think before you speak. I'm clearly not in the field of what?


You're clearly not in the LE field if you've already made a determination that the officers were wrong without any knowledge of the investigation.



> I simply stated that there wasn't any need to taser that man


So you're an expert on use of force and were there for the incident?



> The man didn't even speak english, he was clearly scared, he was of no threat to anyone and the man was fucking tasered for a total of over a minute and then causing death.


Who's fault is it that he didnt speak english? He was causing a disturbance long before the arrival of police. Causing death?? Wow...you're a pathologist as well?



> Why don't you make a halfway intelligent argument instead of resorting to sophmoric attacks.


Like the "feeble mind" comment above?



> It doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand what excessive force is.


So we've determined that this is excessive force, have we?



> Yes, in most cases the victims did have drugs in their system which helped lead to their deaths after being tasered. However, in every case I've read they've stated that wouldn't have died from just the drugs. *The drug has most occasionally been methamphetamine that has killed people after being tasered. Why? Well methamphetamine causes your heart to race and causes your blood pressure to go through the roof, and the tasers will stop your heart the entire time, put the two together...*


So let me get this straight...when determining whether to deploy the taser, officers should have the suspect fill out a medical history form, and inquire about possible use of illicit drugs such as meth? Is this your "intelligent argument?" Should officers risk injury to themselves or others because some tweeker "could be" at risk (low risk) from the taser?


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

Lets mind the language, please. I f%cking mean it.

I would much prefer to pepper-spray the guy using a product with a hydrocarbon vehicle and THEN taze him. *FLAME-ON!*

An event sure to warm the cockles of even the most jaded cop's heart.

:twisted:

</IMG>


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> That doesn't justify tasering a non-hostile man, especially when you already have him restrained. There's already too many incidents of law enforcement using tasers in non violent situations when they already have matters in control. The man didn't have a weapon and wasn't throwing punches at anyone. Some officers are using the tasers like they use pepper spray. Tasers are potentially lethal, just like a firearm. They need to be used as a last line of defense, not in non-violent situations where people aren't cooperating. I'm not defending the guys actions, but the matter could've been resolved without resorting to lethal force.


All this coming from a guy who can't get his meds filled and lost his satellite dish.

The taser is completely different from the weekly electrical shocks you're required to take. See you if can get one of the guys in the white uniforms over to the keyboard for a minute.

For some extra dessert I'd like to see if he can get you to play train conductor for a while.

CHOO-CHOO!


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## DJM1968 (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

Why didn't Vancouver Airport have a translator on call? It's an international airport, with hordes of international travelers comming and going every day; you would think they would have at least one staff member who spoke Russian on duty--why didn't they? 

The whole mess could have been resolved before the cops showed up.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



DJM1968 said:


> Why didn't Vancouver Airport have a translator on call? It's an international airport, with hordes of international travelers comming and going every day; you would think they would have at least one staff member who spoke Russian on duty--why didn't they?
> 
> The whole mess could have been resolved before the cops showed up.


Unfortunately, I dont think having a Russian translator would have helped any, considering the guy was from Poland, and likely spoke Polish, not Russian.

*"Polish* (_język polski_, _polszczyzna_) is the official language of Poland. It is the most spoken West Slavic language."


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

Too, it's been my experience that nutjobs do not respond to reasonable discourse: he should be returned to Lappland or where ever he came from and buried in Potters Field...at his native state's expense, of course.

</IMG>


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



csauce777 said:


> Unfortunately, I dont think having a Russian translator would have helped any, considering the guy was from Poland, and likely spoke Polish, not Russian.
> 
> *"Polish* (_język polski_, _polszczyzna_) is the official language of Poland. It is the most spoken West Slavic language."


The man was from Poland but spoke RUSSIAN. Every single article about this incident states that the man spoke RUSSIAN. Watch the video of the entire incident that I posted. You guys keep asking, "were you there?" No, but I saw the video of the incident!


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## screamineagle (Jul 11, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

I watched a video of the moon landing once.


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## SargeLorenzo (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



kwflatbed said:


> Pritchard said he saw him throw what he thought was a computer keyboard or computer at one time


Yup, that poor non-hostile russian speaking-polish man.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



SargeLorenzo said:


> Yup, that poor non-hostile russian speaking-polish man.


If the man was hostile, then why would some random woman walk up to him calmly and then turn her back to him and walk away calmly. Why would the security have their backs turned to him half the time if he was so 'hostile?'

"A preliminary autopsy done on Dziekanski showed that he had no drugs or alcohol in his system, but a definitive cause of death has not yet been determined."

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/277476

The man was stranded at the airport for nine hours trying to find his mom. All he was asking for was for some help to find his way out of the airport (aka a translator.)

His last words before getting tasered to death, "I want to get out, help me find the way...Police! Police! Can't you help me?"

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10476459

And yes, whoever said he was speaking polish was actually correct, despite what every news article said.

The police were on the scene for a total of 24 seconds before they tasered him. He was standing still when he was tasered...


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## SargeLorenzo (Jan 21, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> "A preliminary autopsy done on Dziekanski showed that he had no drugs or alcohol in his system, but a definitive cause of death has not yet been determined."


Gimme the paperwork, I'll fill it out....cause of death = stupidity

You're really up on the facts with this one. Where do you get your info, _satellite TV_?

Just keep telling yourself that everyone here is wrong except you.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> If the man was hostile, *then why would some random woman walk up to him calmly and then turn her back to him and walk away calmly*.
> His last words before getting tasered to death, "I want to get out, help me find the way...Police! Police! Can't you help me?"
> 
> 
> ...


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

SOT? is that you trolling as "hutch"


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## sabreRED (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

Maybe all police departments should just go back to carrying the big wooden clubs instead of tasers.

Then instead of the poor public hearing taser victims "scream in pain" they'll just hear *CLUNK*

But seriously I think people need to just grow up and realize that the police know what they are doing and they are using tasers for a reason. The reason is you are much less likely to permanently disable someone using a taser than you are using a hands-on technique or baton strikes. ITS THAT SIMPLE.

Do taser injuries and deaths occur, yes rarely, but they receive 1000X more news coverage than other police action related injuries and deaths BECAUSE IT MAKES FOR A GOOD NEWS STORY! Think about it. A police officer uses his firearm in a deadly force confrontation and its a 1 day local story. A police officer uses his taser and someone video tapes it and its on CNN for a month.

Maybe you should go on a news media forum and bitch them out because your too stupid to realize the tricks they have been playing on you.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

I e-mailed the institution he is currently at. Hutch will be getting extra dessert as part of some behavioral change therapy.

He may be back though as a Nascar Driver who got a speeding ticket. The good news is he'll be able to provide us with some of his defensive driving skills.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



sabreRED said:


> Maybe all police departments should just go back to carrying the big wooden clubs instead of tasers.
> 
> Then instead of the poor public hearing taser victims "scream in pain" they'll just hear *CLUNK*
> 
> ...


Again, if you watched the video, you'd realize that they did use the baton after the man was tasered. The police did not know how to properly use the taser and that's what killed the man. YOU DO NOT SIT ON TOP OF A MAN THAT YOU JUST TASERED FOR 53 SECONDS! WHY? BECAUSE THE MAN HAS TO CATCH HIS BREATH!

If you've been through the taser training and have been tasered yourself you'd know that you can't breathe during the shock and have to catch your breath for awhile after the shocking stops. The man was likely struggling after being shocked because he was trying to catch his breath.


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## sabreRED (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> Again, if you watched the video, you'd realize that they did use the baton after the man was tasered. The police did not know how to properly use the taser and that's what killed the man. YOU DO NOT SIT ON TOP OF A MAN THAT YOU JUST TASERED FOR 53 SECONDS! WHY? BECAUSE THE MAN HAS TO CATCH HIS BREATH!
> 
> If you've been through the taser training and have been tasered yourself you'd know that you can't breathe during the shock and have to catch your breath for awhile after the shocking stops. The man was likely struggling after being shocked because he was trying to catch his breath.


Well listen my point is the officers only have a certain amount of options when it comes to controlling an out of control person. ALL of them pose some risk to their health. Just like there are some people out there that due to medical conditions or drug use would probably die if they tried to run a mile, there are certain people out there that due to medical conditions or drug use shouldn't fight with the cops. But they do, and my point is its not the cops fault its the persons fault who is fighting them.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



sabreRED said:


> Well listen my point is the officers only have a certain amount of options when it comes to controlling an out of control person. ALL of them pose some risk to their health. Just like there are some people out there that due to medical conditions or drug use would probably die if they tried to run a mile, there are certain people out there that due to medical conditions or drug use shouldn't fight with the cops. But they do, and my point is its not the cops fault its the persons fault who is fighting them.


You make a good point, some people do have conditions that could put their lives in jeopardy if they do fight with the cops. My point is though is that the man wasn't fighting the cops, he wasn't even passively resisting them. I know I've read that you aren't supposed to use the taser multiple times; if it doesn't work the first time you're supposed to use another method/tool in order to apprehend the suspect. You guys go through vigorous training and learn how to apprehend suspects without resorting to tasering. If these 4 couldn't cuff this man in this situation without using a taser/baton/pepper spray then they really shouldn't be cops. I know that you may risk injury but quite honestly if you keep yourself in shape you shouldn't run into an issue in a situation like that. I'm sure most of you could apprehend this guy quite easily without using any of your tool belt tools by yourself, nevermind with 3 other cops assisting.

I just think people really want the tasers only to be used in violent situations where there is an imminent threat to others' safety. They really seem to be used lately in situations where the officers are simply trying to get the suspects to comply and are using the devices to torcher the suspect to get them to obey.

I do agree that they are a good tool to have availible for officers to use when the right situation occurs. That situation in Mass where there was some loony depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer and taking a bullet to the brain would be a very good example of a situation that would've benefited from the taser.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> They really seem to be used lately in situations where the officers are simply trying to get the suspects to comply and are using the devices to *torcher* the suspect to get them to obey.


Is "torcher" a new defensive tactics term, or did you mean "torture?"



> I do agree that they are a good tool to have availible for officers to use when the right situation occurs. *That situation in Mass where there was some loony depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer and taking a bullet to the brain* would be a very good example of a situation that would've benefited from the taser.


Wow...you are crazy huh? Any situation where a "looney depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer" buys a bullet from any officer, from any department, in any state, everytime.

Are you saying that a suspect who attacks an officer with a knife (or other weapon) shouldnt be fired upon? Wow...the previous posters must be correct in their assumption that you are in a looney bin.


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## sabreRED (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> You make a good point, some people do have conditions that could put their lives in jeopardy if they do fight with the cops. My point is though is that the man wasn't fighting the cops, he wasn't even passively resisting them. I know I've read that you aren't supposed to use the taser multiple times; if it doesn't work the first time you're supposed to use another method/tool in order to apprehend the suspect. You guys go through vigorous training and learn how to apprehend suspects without resorting to tasering. If these 4 couldn't cuff this man in this situation without using a taser/baton/pepper spray then they really shouldn't be cops. I know that you may risk injury but quite honestly if you keep yourself in shape you shouldn't run into an issue in a situation like that. I'm sure most of you could apprehend this guy quite easily without using any of your tool belt tools by yourself, nevermind with 3 other cops assisting.
> 
> I just think people really want the tasers only to be used in violent situations where there is an imminent threat to others' safety. They really seem to be used lately in situations where the officers are simply trying to get the suspects to comply and are using the devices to torcher the suspect to get them to obey.
> 
> I do agree that they are a good tool to have availible for officers to use when the right situation occurs. That situation in Mass where there was some loony depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer and taking a bullet to the brain would be a very good example of a situation that would've benefited from the taser.


While the officers safety in a hands-on situation is important, it is the safety of the suspect that is more likely to come into jeopardy. This is why in the force continuum less than lethal weapons which include the taser are deployed before hard-hand techniques.

You have to keep in mind too, the suspect may not be armed, but if you go hands-on and you get overpowered (which can happen if the suspect is on drugs and feeling little pain) then the suspect may have access to your firearm. So why risk that? Your putting yourself AND the public in danger at that point.

This is why they are supposed to deploy the taser. Only other option at that level would be pepper spray and if you've ever been sprayed you would probably take the taser 100 times over the spray (or at least I would with my irish skin lol).


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



csauce777 said:


> Is "torcher" a new defensive tactics term, or did you mean "torture?"
> 
> Wow...you are crazy huh? Any situation where a "looney depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer" buys a bullet from any officer, from any department, in any state, everytime.
> 
> Are you saying that a suspect who attacks an officer with a knife (or other weapon) shouldnt be fired upon? Wow...the previous posters must be correct in their assumption that you are in a looney bin.


If you actually followed this site you'd know the case that I'm talking about. The man had the knife for over 2 hours with police there trying to get him to put down the knife. What I was suggesting was that they could've put him down with the taser after only a couple minutes and not subjected one of the officers to harm, instead of 2 hours and then having the man come VERY close to stabbing one of the officers. If you take the time to look at the thread, you'll notice my post on the matter where I stated, "Why are they even questioning the shooting?"

Here's the thread on the incident I was talking about:
http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33640

Why do you feel the need to put others down constantly, just because they disagree with you or share a different opinion? Do you have self-esteem issues and need to make fun of others to boost your ego? Or you just another one of those losers who tries to agree with the majority just to fit in, even if it requires putting others down? Honestly, there's no need for that shit. Grow the fuck up.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

*Canada orders police Taser use review*

The Associated Press

OTTAWA - The government ordered a police watchdog group to review the Royal Canadian Mounted Police's use of Tasers amid a continued outcry over the death of a Polish immigrant at Vancouver's airport.
Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day said late Tuesday night the RCMP's public complaints watchdog will issue the report by Dec. 12.
Video released last week of the last moments of Robert Dziekanski's life shows police using a Taser stun gun on him just 46 seconds after confronting him.
British Columbia's provincial leader apologized to Dziekanski's mother on Monday, and the province launched a full public investigation into the fatality. A coroner's inquest also has been called.
Day's latest directive follows an earlier order of an internal RCMP review, a move sparked by the deaths of 18 people after being hit with Tasers in the last four years in Canada.
Paul Kennedy, the Commissioner for Public Complaints Against the RCMP, will review policies for Taser use and assess whether its members live up to those standards, Day said. The review will not include other police forces and the group's recommendations are not binding.
The move stops short of the national independent investigation that opposition parties have demanded.
Liberal Member of Parliament Ujjal Dosanjh called Day's move too little, too late.
"He's absolutely, miserably failed and abdicated his responsibility to Canadians," Dosanjh said, reiterating his call for a broad national inquiry that would examine the RCMP, the Canada Border Services Agency, Immigration, Transport Canada and the Vancouver airport authority.
Dziekanski, 40, of Gliwice, Poland, arrived at the airport Oct. 14. It was his first flight and he had planned to start a new life with his mother in western Canada.
But Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, began acting erratically at the airport. He apparently became upset when he did not see his mother in the secure baggage area, which she was not allowed to enter.
RCMP officers responding to reports of an aggressive man destroying property stunned Dziekanski with a Taser twice before pinning him to the floor. He was pronounced dead at the scene.

Information From: AP Wire Service


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



justanotherparatrooper said:


> SOT? is that you trolling as "hutch"


I'm dumb but not a complete ass tard like the Hutch.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Nova Scotia Man Dies in Jail After Taser Hit*

*CBC News*

A man who was jolted with a Taser has died in a Dartmouth jail, prompting Nova Scotia's justice minister to order a review of police use of the weapon.
The 45-year-old man died Thursday morning at the Burnside correctional centre, after police used a stun gun on him sometime Wednesday, said Justice Minister Cecil Clarke.
Although he called for an immediate review, Clarke said there will not be a ban on Tasers.
"We also have to be considerate of those who put their lives on the line as peace officers and police and correctional workers, and we're going to have a balanced approach," he told reporters.
The minister did not say why or when the Taser was used or where the man was at the time. He suggested the man may have been taken to hospital at some point.
"It's important the RCMP do their investigation at this time," Clarke said.
The province's chief medical examiner is also investigating and will determine whether the man had any pre-existing medical conditions, the minister said.
NDP justice critic Bill Estabrooks said an independent look at the overall use of Tasers in Nova Scotia is needed.
But neither Estabrooks nor Michel Samson, the Liberal's justice critic, is calling for a ban on the weapons.
Jolt of electricity
The hand-held Tasers deliver a jolt of electricity, which immobilizes the person targeted.
The unidentified man is the latest person to die after being stunned by a Taser.
Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski died at the Vancouver airport five weeks ago, prompting the federal government to order a review of the RCMP's Taser policy.
That review will not include other police forces.

Information From: CBC News Service


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



Hutch said:


> If you actually followed this site you'd know the case that I'm talking about. The man had the knife for over 2 hours with police there trying to get him to put down the knife. What I was suggesting was that they could've put him down with the taser after only a couple minutes and not subjected one of the officers to harm, instead of 2 hours and then having the man come VERY close to stabbing one of the officers. If you take the time to look at the thread, you'll notice my post on the matter where I stated, "Why are they even questioning the shooting?"
> 
> Here's the thread on the incident I was talking about:
> http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33640
> ...


This has nothing to do with agreeing with the majority. This has to do with the fact that you have posted several times now seemingly blasting the cops who choose to deploy a taser rather than go hands on with some shitbag. If you read the other posts, you will find that virtually none of the police officers on this board agree with your sympathetic feelings toward people who assault or resist officers, or your adversarial attitude toward cops using force. And for the record, I wasnt "putting you down" when I commented on your statement alleging that a "looney depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer" shouldnt have taken a bullet to the brain. I was simply opposing your opinion.


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## Guest (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*



csauce777 said:


> This has nothing to do with agreeing with the majority. This has to do with the fact that you have posted several times now seemingly blasting the cops who choose to deploy a taser rather than go hands on with some shitbag. If you read the other posts, you will find that virtually none of the police officers on this board agree with your sympathetic feelings toward people who assault or resist officers, or your adversarial attitude toward cops using force. And for the record, I wasnt "putting you down" when I commented on your statement alleging that a "looney depressed guy with a knife that ended up lunging at an officer" shouldnt have taken a bullet to the brain. I was simply opposing your opinion.


My sympathetic feelings toward people who assault or resist officers? When else have I shown 'sympathetic feelings' towards someone who assaulted or resisted officers? If you are refering to this thread as your only example of this then you are quite simply wrong. If you watch the video, you can see that the officers made no attempt to restrain him before they tasered him.

I stated that IF the officers WERE carrying tasers, they could've resolved the situation with the nutty guy holding a knife WITH a taser. I was just showing an example of a situation where a taser would be the best first option that would've likely worked and not put the officers and the man's own life in jeopardy. I believe the incident was in Quincy(?) and their officers do not carry tasers.

I'm not trying to say that when the man was lunging at the officers that they would've been better off using the taser. Absolutely not. I'm saying when the man was only holding the knife that they could've put him down with a taser before matters got worse. I know that whether the officers had tasers or not they did the right thing in using their firearms.

I apologize I wasn't clear enough in my explanation the first time.


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## DJM1968 (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Fight Over Videotaped Canadian Mountie's Use of Taser*

One Canadian blogger's view on the subject:

http://kraalspace.blogspot.com/2007/11/canadas-cattlecar-moment.html


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

*Canadian man dies after being tasered*

*36-year-old died in hospital after officers used pepper spray, a Taser, batons*









updated 4:55 a.m. ET, Sun., Nov. 25, 2007

 
_A man holds up a sign during a rally for Robert Dziekanski _
_in Vancouver Saturday. Dziekanski died last month at the _
_Vancouver International Airport when he was jolted by a _
_RCMP taser._

VANCOUVER, British Columbia - A Canadian man died Saturday, four days after police used a Taser stun-gun on him because he reportedly was acting erratically in a store, police said. He was the third person to die in recent weeks in Canada after being shocked by the hand-held weapon.

Robert Knipstrom, 36, died in a hospital after two officers used pepper spray, a Taser and their batons to subdue the British Columbia resident. Police earlier said Knipstrom was extremely agitated, aggressive and combative with the two officers who responded. He was conscious and speaking when he was taken to the hospital.

The cause of death has yet to be determined. Although a Taser was used against Knipstrom, it was not immediately clear what role, if any, it played in his death, said Inspector Brendan Fitzpatrick.

Investigations into Knipstrom's death have been launched separately by the British Columbia Coroner's Office and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, police said at a news conference Saturday.

The case comes as Canadian police face intense criticism over the death of Robert Dziekanski, a Polish immigrant who died at Vancouver airport last month after officers used a Taser and manhandled him.

A Nova Scotian man also died earlier this week, 30 hours after being shocked with the Taser at a jail where he was being held on assault charges.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21956685/


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Poland Opens Investigation into Canada Taser Death

*The Associated Press*

WARSAW, Poland -- 
Poland is investigating the death of a Polish man who died at a Canadian airport after police used a Taser stun gun on him, prosecutors said Wednesday.
Prosecutors in Robert Dziekanski's former home town of Gliwice, in southern Poland, want to find out "whether Canadian police officers exceeded their authority and unintentionally caused the death," said Michal Szulczynski, a spokesman for the Gliwice prosecutor's office.
Dziekanski, 40, arrived at Vancouver airport on Oct. 14. It was his first flight and he had planned to start a new life with his mother in western Canada.
But Dziekanski, who spoke only Polish, began acting erratically at the airport. He apparently became upset when he did not see his mother in the secure baggage area, which she was not allowed to enter.
Police officers responding to reports of an aggressive man destroying property stunned Dziekanski with a Taser twice before pinning him to the floor. He was pronounced dead at the scene.
Szulczynski said the Polish investigation was opened Nov. 22, after Polish diplomats in Canada informed prosecutors in Poland of Dziekanski's death. He refused to give any detail of the investigation, but said it was independent of one launched in Canada.
Private video released earlier this month of the last moments of Dziekanski's life shows police using a Taser on him just 46 seconds after confronting him.
British Columbia's provincial leader has apologized to Dziekanski's mother, and the province launched a full public investigation into the fatality. A coroner's inquest also has been called and the police are reviewing their Taser use.








Wire Service


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