# Visiting cops using your station facilities?



## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

Kinda slow today, so I thought I'd pose this little "off-the-wall" question for all you guys (and gals) ........

I like to work out probably 5 - 6 times a week, and I also travel a bit. When I travel, one of my difficulties is finding a place to work out, preferably a cheap or free place, rather that going to a commercial gym and paying $20 for a guest pass just to use the gym for a couple of hours. So I often stop by the local law enforcement agency, ID myself as a cop from elsewhere, and ask if they have a small gym and if I could use it; and maybe also if they have a computer I can use to access my e-mail. Now, as a Sergeant and shift supervisor where I work, I'd have no problem granting such a request if it was made to me. But about 50% of the time, I'm told by other agencies that they can't (or won't) let me use the gym (or the computer, even when I promise I won't go to any inappropriate websites) and they typically make some vague comment about "liability", that I might get hurt in their gym. And these are often agencies that have no problem taking civilians on "ride-a-longs" in their cruisers. Just seems kind of strange to me. (On the other hand, the other 50% of the time, I get a friendly wave, a come on in, our house is your house attitude, what's thing's like where you work, how much do you get paid, etc etc etc .... which is more what I'd expect.)

So, if I happened on by YOUR Department, with a similar request, what do you think the answer would be, and why?


----------



## evidence (Jul 24, 2002)

I have seen both sides of that situation involving the use of other "facilities" in a PD, namely the hopper. Not my PD, but others that will go unnamed. I would side with professional courtesy if it was my decision, but piss ons like me dont have a say. I have seen cops from other states using our gym as well, a change of faces around the PD, especially a friendly one that is on the job, is always nice to see.


----------



## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

I'd say... "If you wanna piss, there's the Hopper. If you wanna work out, you're shit out of luck - we ain't got a gym here."


----------



## DODK911 (May 21, 2003)

I agree with RPD931, If you want to use my head, your more then welcome. We have other agencies use our head all the time, but we don't have a gym either; I wish we did. You are welcome to come by any time.


----------



## badogg88 (Dec 17, 2003)

I just have to ask, don't civilian ride-a-longs have to sign, basically, their life away before they do the ride-a-long? I know lifting weights and doing a ride-a-long is different, but they do sign a waiver, I beleive. That would cover the PDs ass incase anything happened, whereas with you using their gym, they wouldn't be covered. Just my 2cents.


----------



## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

badogg88 said:


> I just have to ask, don't civilian ride-a-longs have to sign, basically, their life away before they do the ride-a-long? I know lifting weights and doing a ride-a-long is different, but they do sign a waiver, I beleive. That would cover the PDs ass incase anything happened, whereas with you using their gym, they wouldn't be covered. Just my 2cents.


Yes, that's true about the ride-a-long waiver. I actually had one Watch Commander at a PD I visited that pulled out a ride-along waiver form, crossed out the "ride-a-long" verbage and wrote in "use the station gym", had me sign it and then pointed me down the hall at their little weight room, and said "have a good time". Seemed a reasonable solution. I imagine he just tore it up and threw it away when I walked out of there an hour later, sweaty but none the worse for wear.

You know, the "sub-thread" here to this whole topic comes back to professional courtesy. And while I certainly don't want to beat that dead horse, it just seems that it would not (should not) be a big deal to let another copper, visiting from ANYWHERE, use your gym, or computer, or bunk room, or whatever. (Within reason, of course.) But I also know that professional courtesy is not now, what it was 30 years ago when I first became a cop. And I find that pretty sad.


----------



## Mortal knight (Jun 17, 2003)

Wouldn't verification be an issue? Some yahoos like to "play cop". They could go use the gym then when no one looking try to do things less then appropriate. I know who would do a thing like that?


----------



## badogg88 (Dec 17, 2003)

Mortal knight said:


> Wouldn't verification be an issue? Some yahoos like to "play cop". They could go use the gym then when no one looking try to do things less then appropriate. I know who would do a thing like that?


 I was just going to say that about the verification. PO IDs arent' THAT hard to fake, especially out of state or even out of town that the other PD doesn't recognize.


----------



## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

badogg88 said:


> I was just going to say that about the verification. PO IDs arent' THAT hard to fake, especially out of state or even out of town that the other PD doesn't recognize.


War story: Once upon a time, 20 somethin years ago, I had a trainee, and we were patrolling around in a very high crime neighborhood, on graveyard shift. Stopped a guy who we saw driving around and around the same couple of blocks several times, very slowly; it just looked suspicious. I let my trainee do the approach and talk to the guy, while I hung back to watch, cover, and see how he handled it. Turns out the guy ID's himself as a cop from some place far far away, small midwest PD, as I recall. And says he has a gun under his seat. (This was way before HR218.) Turns out he was lost, visiting the area, looking to find an address of an old relative, which we ultimately directed him to. But my Trainee starts agonizing over the gun he's got, being it is technically a crime, pre-HR218. And his main point of agony is "how do we know he is really a cop, how do we know his ID isn't fake?" My answer was simply a couple of questions, "Does his badge/ID look real? Does he talk, act, look like a cop? Use your gut instinct, Trainee, and make a command decision." His decison was that he believed he was a real cop, but didn't like him having a gun with him. I had already decided he was indeed a real cop, gave him directions to where he was going, gave him his gun back, and told him to have anice night. Then I had a long talk with my Trainee about professional courtesy and how to treat other cops, regardless of where they worked or came from. I also asked him if HE would travel in this neighborhood without a gun (he said no, of course).... and then asked him why he should expect some other cop to do otherwise.

The point of the story is this: If you've been a cop longer than it takes to get off training or probation, you should have the ability to look at a Police ID, talk to the guy possessing it for five minutes, and make an accurate assessment of whether or not he is for real. And if you are still not sure, and were still worried about it, you could call his Dept and ask someone there to verify employment. Seems pretty simple to me.


----------



## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

msw,

Before Ch. 180 (Acts of 1998 ) was passed, it was legal for any LEO (any state/Fed/muni/etc.) to CCW in MA. They did NOT have to be on duty, they didn't need any letter or anything else. I learned this from Mas Ayoob (Capt. Grantham, NH PD, owner of LFI and LE instructor) at a seminar I attended in the late 1980s . . . I was a little surprised and went back and researched it after Mas and I discussed the matter.

Under the same law, MA LEOs did not need a LTC and could carry anything that they wanted to "on the badge" even off-duty, without permission.

In 1998 all that changed and now LE are only exempt here (legally) if "authorized" (including authorization to carry the particular gun). By the law, it is a lot more tricky today than it was pre-1998, but common sense and professional courtesy should still cover most cases.


----------



## stm4710 (Jul 6, 2004)

We let the pd use our can if they need it no problem. Or they can just come by for a soda and shoot the breeze. Were on the oppiset end of town from their station so it is nice to have a close by head when there is alot traffic and the monkey wants out of the cage. :monkeyea:


----------



## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

I was once allowed to use the bathroom at a police department.
Past that if you want to use a gym, pay the coin.


----------



## HousingCop (May 14, 2004)

LenS said:


> msw,
> 
> Before Ch. 180 (Acts of 1998 ) was passed, it was legal for any LEO (any state/Fed/muni/etc.) to CCW in MA. They did NOT have to be on duty, they didn't need any letter or anything else. I learned this from Mas Ayoob (Capt. Grantham, NH PD, owner of LFI and LE instructor) at a seminar I attended in the late 1980s . . . I was a little surprised and went back and researched it after Mas and I discussed the matter.
> 
> ...


I have let other PD's and even security departments come on in & use the hopper at my station. As long as they are good guys and don't s#it on the seat, what the hell do I care? If you gotta' go, you gotta' go, right??

As for the gym we have, we have to sign a waiver ourselves before we get to lift a weight. Yeah, imagine that, a guy that works there has to waive his right to work out. And these are the very same people that wanted to put a "Health & Wellness" clause in our contract.

I'd be very wary about out of state LE. I have heard horror stories from all over & have seen some of the stuff selling on Ebay and with computers nowadays, even you can be Billy Bratton, for a price $$.

LenS
As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.


----------



## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

HousingCop said:


> LenS
> As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.


Hey, don't knock Buzzy's Roast Beef! 

I know that many don't hold Mas in high regard, but that is irrelevant to my point about the law allowing out-of-state LEOs to CCW in MA per MGL (before HR218). I did independently verify his info after he told me about the law (this was in late 1980s IIRC). Ref: Ch. 140 S. 131G

I think that I drove thru Grantham, NH last year . . . and it was over in 2 blinks, but there are MANY towns that have only PT LE in most all states. I recall a former co-worker telling me that he hit a dog in Rowe MA and called the PD to report it . . . got the Chief's Wife who took the info and told him that she'd tell her Husband when he got home from work . . . his FT job was in the paper mill! I also recall the mid 1980s when my friend Cliff Keeling was Chief in Topsfield, MA . . . Cliff told me that his handful of FT POs worked during the week and his Special POs worked the weekend shifts. Different world than the bigger towns/cities that most of us are used to, but they are all cops!

I don't know how many guns Mas carries and I've never taken any of his courses. I hear that LFI I is excellent, but after reading a review of his super LFI (LFI 4 IIRC) course, I lost a lot of respect for him. A review of said course stated that he had a pint of blood drawn on one of the students one time and injected some drug (stimulant IIRC) in a student another time to demonstrate the point about how these things effect responses to stress, etc. Sorry, I see these actions as very irresponsible for an instructor to use!

In my 18 years with the PD as a Special PO, I only knew of 1 officer who CCW'd off-duty. Most wouldn't even carry a gun on duty if they could get away with it (and one Lt who later became chief didn't carry ever). As someone who believes that every PO "wears a target on their back" for some dirtbag that "just hates cops", I think that it is stupid for officers to "go naked" off duty . . . just in case someone s/he arrested recognizes him/her outside the job! But again, this is irrelevant to the point I was making.


----------



## Guest (Sep 27, 2005)

HousingCop said:


> As for Massad Ayoob, AKA Massad IamAboob we all know his story. He's an Auxiliary Captain in a 2 horse town in NH. It's kind of like being the "Marshal of Buzzy's Roast Beef." We all read the LE mags he's prominantly displayed in too. Anybody who wears 4 guns and 3 knives secreted on his body at any given time is a MAJOR TOOL in my book. He may run a school for LE and F/A training but we all know he's a sham.


I couldn't agree more.

As for letting other cops use our facilities, sure, why not? I'd check their ID, then call the PD to make sure they're legit. If they are, they have the run of the station. We've let other agencies use our bathrooms, showers, weight room, store weapons in our armory, and gassed their vehicles.

If we can't take care of our own, who else is going to?


----------



## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

Shots Fired!

Who's knockin' the good Ol' Buzzy's Roast Beef? That place was home of the Finest Gourmet Cuisine... If you didn't mind the after-taste... or the unsanitary facilities. :lol: Mmmm Yummy!


----------



## popo (Apr 1, 2005)

> So, if I happened on by YOUR Department, with a similar request, what do you think the answer would be, and why?


We'd tell you to screw. You gotta be kidding me, are you for real. Asking to come in and use the Gym and computers. You can't be a cop.


----------



## Guest (Sep 29, 2005)

popo said:


> We'd tell you to screw. You gotta be kidding me, are you for real. Asking to come in and use the Gym and computers. You can't be a cop.


Cops don't use gyms or computers? That's new to me.


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Delta784 said:


> Cops don't use gyms or computers? That's new to me.


You don't come in and use other's stuff.


----------



## Guest (Sep 29, 2005)

j809 said:


> You don't come in and use other's stuff.


It's called professional courtesy. Why should I care if a cop from California is working out next to me in the gym? I'd enjoy swapping war stories.


----------



## lokiluvr (Dec 30, 2004)

Oh hell yah,,, if we had a gym or a toilet ya could use it,,,, but alas, we have neither......


----------



## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

You don't have a toilet at your PD? That's kinda gross.


----------



## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

Delta784 said:


> It's called professional courtesy. Why should I care if a cop from California is working out next to me in the gym? I'd enjoy swapping war stories.


That's always been my philosophy. I cannot fathom the lack of professional courtesy which seems to be evident in the previous comments posted a couple of posts back by j809 and popo.

Another cop - from wherever - comes by my station, as far as I am concerned, he's got the run of the place. And I don't think I'd have much difficulty looking at his ID and talking to him for five minutes and figuring out if he was "real" or not.


----------



## lokiluvr (Dec 30, 2004)

kttref said:


> You don't have a toilet at your PD? That's kinda gross.


Nah, we have to go next door to the Town Hall, or Church.


----------



## popo (Apr 1, 2005)

> Another cop - from wherever - comes by my station, as far as I am concerned, he's got the run of the place. And I don't think I'd have much difficulty looking at his ID and talking to him for five minutes and figuring out if he was "real" or not.


Delta, it's not that he's a real cop or not. What if he uses the gym and gets hurt, we have a policy and a waiver to sign before we touch the gym at my station. Other officers leave their stuff around, what if it's missing. We also have a policy from the city who can use the computers and what can be searched. How about memos, general orders and other documents that may be laying around. I would like to know what PD you work for that let's any officer come in and have the run of the place. Then we'll show up with about 50 guys for a tour.


----------



## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Boy you guys need to think like a news reporter from the Herald...

Police Using Taxpayers Money To Run a Free Gym
Visiting Cops Get Free Gym
Police Taking Biz From 

Dude if you think you have problems now, just wait till you try and buy ammo after an article like above...or some sweaty fat lady in leg warmers comes into your shop and beats you with in an inch of your life for grabbing her volume from her new shop!


----------



## Guest (Sep 30, 2005)

popo said:


> Delta, it's not that he's a real cop or not.


You quoted someone else, not me.



popo said:


> What if he uses the gym and gets hurt, we have a policy and a waiver to sign before we touch the gym at my station.


We have signs all over the gym, stating you use the equipment at your own risk.



popo said:


> Other officers leave their stuff around, what if it's missing.


Any cop that leaves anything unattended is a complete moron.



popo said:


> We also have a policy from the city who can use the computers and what can be searched.


Anything sensitive on our computers, you need a username & password. As much as I believe in professional courtesy, I'm not giving that information out to anyone.



popo said:


> How about memos, general orders and other documents that may be laying around.


Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't see the danger in a cop from another agency seeing our memos or special orders, most of which are petty bullshit anyway.



popo said:


> I would like to know what PD you work for that let's any officer come in and have the run of the place. Then we'll show up with about 50 guys for a tour.


Quincy PD.

Of course we couldn't accomodate 50 at one time, simply because that would interfere with our operations. However, if you're ever in this neck of the woods, hit me with a PM, and I'll be glad to arrange the grand tour for you.


----------



## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

Delta784 said:


> Of course we couldn't accomodate 50 at one time, simply because that would interfere with our operations. However, if you're ever in this neck of the woods, hit me with a PM, and I'll be glad to arrange the grand tour for you.


All good points, Delta784. Nor could we accomodate 50 guys showing up at once. But if any cop from anywhere showed up (one or two, or a small group), and wanted to use the locker room, take a shower or a sh^t; or use our gym (all equipment paid for by the employees, or donated to us, no taxpayer money spent); or use my desk or computer; or take a tour, or go on a ride-a-long....... they are more than welcome. I enjoy meeting cops from elsewhere and talking to them, trading stories, etc...... and do not see any big deal with extending this type of professional courtesy to other cops.


----------



## popo (Apr 1, 2005)

Would you let Richie G. back in to use the facilities


----------

