# Speeding Ticket Blues



## soxin09 (Nov 11, 2008)

I recently got pulled over on Route 9 in Natick by a parked officer with Lidar, aiming into oncoming traffic. From a cluster, he picked me out and waved me in - to which I obeyed. He showed me his Lidar had registered a speed of 70 mph (40 mph zone, clearly posted). I was shocked at the speed he showed me, but said nothing. I received a fairly expensive ticket with minimal dialogue exchanged.

I am planning on taking the ticket to court because I was not speeding. I have never earned a speeding ticket and have only been pulled over once in 20 years of driving for having a headlight out. I'm not sure how it's possible that he had 70 mph showing on his Lidar, but there must be some type of error here. Driving 70 mph in that area would be suicidal - something I am not. I am certain I was driving just UNDER 40 mph, approaching a traffic light (red at the time).

I don't know much about Lidar, other than the accuracy is supposed to be very reliable when aimed properly and that (I think) they auto self-calibrate. I went back to the location where the officer was and took a few pictures to confirm that the line of sight that he had was interrupted by 4 support columns of an overpass, and a speed limit street sign facing straight at his line of sight. I was also behind a car as I approached his position head on - mostly hidden by the car in front of me (the other car wasn't speeding either).

I'm a law abiding citizen with several friends who are police officers in NH and they've suggested I post my questions on this board because they've heard good things about it. Does anybody have any words of advice? I really feel like I'm getting screwed here.

Thanks to all...


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Do a search on Lidar on this site and all of your questions will be answered.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

fight it, appeal, appeal......


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## Barbrady (Aug 5, 2004)

Did you check his gig line? If it is not straight...they must abate.


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## soxin09 (Nov 11, 2008)

Thanks for the help so far (kwflatbed, justanotherparatrooper, and Barbrady) - I'll continue my research on Lidar to determine if any breaks in the line of sight can cause errant readings during ranging measurements.

*Officer Barbrady* - What's a gig line, and why would it need to be straight?

As I recalled my experience for this post, and as I read feedback on similar topics of other posts, I get worried that things might not pan out the way they should. I'll have to keep a positive attitude and think through how to plead my case, but not being a well spoken person with a hearing problem, I'll certainly have the jitters.
Since I've never been to court before, I don't know what to expect. I have a feeling it'll be pretty straightforward, but if there's any "definitely don't" comments out there, please feel free to shout them out.

Again thanks to all. I'm glad I signed up for this board, I've learned a lot in a very short time.


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

soxin09 said:


> I've learned a lot in a very short time.


Alas young padowan, you have read much, but learned little....


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

LIDAR is more accurate than RADAR by a long shot. Speaking of long shots, he could have nailed you at 1000' and the LIDAR beam would only be 3 feet wide. That's less than half the average car width. That he hit you in a group of cars makes no difference, one can selectively aim the LIDAR beam at individual cars within a group.

Good luck trying to beat it. My partner had an EPA lawyer contest his LIDAR ticket, and if that shyster couldn't beat it I'm not too hopeful about yours.

BTW, a little known fact about MA. law is......if the officer wasn't wearing his hat when he issued you a ticket, then the ticket doesn't count and you can disregard it with impunity.


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## MDSP2597 (Jun 12, 2006)

I've gotten people over 3200 feet away before.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

MDSP2597 said:


> I've gotten people over 3200 feet away before.


I've come close to that footage, I mounted my LIDAR to a tripod for stability at that range.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

soxin09 said:


> I'm a law abiding citizen with several friends who are police officers in NH and they've suggested I post my questions on this board because they've heard good things about it.


Dude, I think you got set up... :beat:


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## MDSP2597 (Jun 12, 2006)

I just use my keen sight and Marine Corps Marksmanship Skills to produce those high distances. LOL


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## SargeLorenzo (Jan 21, 2007)

soxin09 said:


> I went back to the location where the officer was and took a few pictures to confirm that *the line of sight that he had was interrupted by 4 support columns of an overpass, and a speed limit street sign* facing straight at his line of sight.


Well there ya go!! You obviously weren't doing 70mph, one of those items was.


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

Johnny Law said:


> BTW, a little known fact about MA. law is......if the officer wasn't wearing his hat when he issued you a ticket, then the ticket doesn't count and you can disregard it with impunity.


Jonny ya beat me to it.


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## lawdog671 (Sep 20, 2005)

Was going to shut up and watch the flaming but I couldn't ....this whole post is exactly the "not me" attitude of today that drives me nuts....bear with me...lol

*I'm a law abiding citizen*
No you're not.....you're a speeder....last I checked obeying speed limit is the law in Massachusetts

*with several friends who are police officers in NH and they've suggested I post my questions on this board because they've heard good things about it. Does anybody have any words of advice? *
I have some advice for you. These days EVERYONE has a friend that's a cop. Your friends are SUCH GOOD friends that they sent you here instead of taing two seconds to tell you a little bit about Lidar and save you the shame. I guarantee they're looking for your post and the definate internet beating you're due.

*I recently got pulled over on Route 9 in Natick by a parked officer with Lidar, aiming into oncoming traffic.*
Since you're being painfully obvious...so shall I....that's how it is done.

*I received a fairly expensive ticket with minimal dialogue exchanged.*
When driving closer to twice the speed limit than the limit itself, citations do get expensive.

*I am planning on taking the ticket to court because I was not speeding. I have never earned a speeding ticket and have only been pulled over once in 20 years of driving for having a headlight out. I'm not sure how it's possible that he had 70 mph showing on his Lidar, but there must be some type of error here. Driving 70 mph in that area would be suicidal - something I am not. I am certain I was driving just UNDER 40 mph, approaching a traffic light (red at the time).*

Of course you're taking it to court. Couldn't be you speeding right? The percieved error here is in your operation, and far less likely the police officer. I'm sure the red light you were approaching was yellow at some point, and I am sure you weren't trying to beat the red light huh?? 
Oh ... and when you say you've never been pulled over it just tells most cops "I've never been caught before."

*I don't know much about Lidar,*

If you had posted this and stopped with an honest question, I am sure you would have recieved honest thoughtful answers. Instead you chose to insult the intelligence of one of our co-workers, then ask us how to make him look worse so you can evade your "screwing" by the police?? The act of "screwing" someone would be malicious and personal. I am certain that your ticket for doubling the speed limit was neither. And rather than admit you may have made a mistake and lost track of the speed you were going, instead of texting/reading/shaving/eating/drinking or any of the other absurd things police see people do when driving, OTHER THAN PAYING ATTENTION TO YOUR SPEED AND CHANGING ROAD CONDITIONS...
It's always easier to blame the professional who does this daily.. with a certified and calibrated scientific speed measuring device... which measures your speed with a beam traveling the speed of light.....YEAH HIS FAULT NOT YOURS!!!
Oh and for the record...you earns those little gold stars in school when you're a child.....you GET citations for speeding. They are not a badge of honor.
Just my personal opinion....


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## bbelichick (Aug 25, 2002)

soxin09 said:


> I'm a law abiding citizen with several friends who are police officers in NH and they've suggested I post my questions on this board because they've heard good things about it.


With friends like those, who needs enemies?

Heartless bastards.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

soxin09 said:


> *-because I was not speeding*. *(1)*
> 
> -I have *never earned (2)* a speeding ticket
> 
> -the line of *sight that he had was* *interrupted* by 4 support columns of an overpass, and a speed limit street sign facing straight at his line of sight. *(3)*


(1) :---)

(2) You have now...

(3) Really...I didnt know an officer couldnt possibly tweek the gun or his head to avoid a speed limit sign...


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

Who keeps writing this s__t? I'm convinced that this is the work of a Masscops member using an alias.


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

"Lidar doesn't lie."

-Quote from a judge during a ticket appeal


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

Johnny Law said:


> BTW, a little known fact about MA. law is......if the officer wasn't wearing his hat when he issued you a ticket, then the ticket doesn't count and you can disregard it with impunity.


Now now, don't be giving false information to newbies. If you ignore the ticket, there are all sorts of sanctions. You have to appeal it, then explain to the clerk-magistrate that the officer wasn't wearing his/her hat. Then the citation is dismissed.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Always looking out for the little guy arent ya Delta?


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

justanotherparatrooper said:


> Always looking out for the little guy arent ya Delta?


I'm a beacon of hope in the negative cesspool also known as Masscops.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2008)

PUS............. Pay Up Sucker


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## soxin09 (Nov 11, 2008)

I took a closer look at the photos I took and realized that there is a bend in the road where traffic moving in the other direction passes between the stationary officer and the distance the ticket states my position at. Is it at all possible the ~30" wide beam (~750 feet) can pick up 2 objects that appear to be right next to each other? I would imagine Lidar determines direction of travel. Just for my curiosity though, what's the call there?

I stand corrected on most of the rebuttals out there that came up last night. I realize this is not a courtroom, and I guess I might have tried to treat it like it was - completely unnecessary. Thanks for the advice, regardless of the lack of a sugar coating. My comments about feeling like I'm getting screwed weren't meant as an attack or insult to the officer that ticketed me.

It goes without saying that I am very thankful for the commitment that all law officers make every day to help protect the general population from itself. This is a pro-police forum, and I respect that. On that note, I'll extend another thanks to those that help keep the peace on this forum more often than they disrupt it.

Thanks again.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Delta784 said:


> Now now, don't be giving false information to newbies. If you ignore the ticket, there are all sorts of sanctions. You have to appeal it, then explain to the clerk-magistrate that the officer wasn't wearing his/her hat. Then the citation is dismissed.


Awww, come on Delta, I like picking up arrests for suspensions due to payment default.



Q5-TPR said:


> Inhale, Exhale, Squeeze, Follow through??


I thought it was BRASS, Breathe, Relax, Aim, Squeeze, Shoot. I still need at least a shoulder stock for stability at great distances.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2008)

Just get a lawyer and fight it. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.


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## SargeLorenzo (Jan 21, 2007)

lakfan said:


> Just *get a lawyer and fight it*. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed *with the evidence I have and my team of experts*. I'm 4-0 so far.


How about just slowing the F down?!!


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

> I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.


Good use of the legal system, turd.

And don't get too confident, I've taken down more attorney's at Judge's Appeals then you count. They just can't seem to get through their law-school brains that "civil" means "preponderance of the the evidence", not "beyond a reasonable doubt". Judges also tend to dislike long diatribes at ticket appeals, so you and your "experts" stand by to stand by.


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## JeepGirl (Jan 27, 2008)

lakfan said:


> Just get a lawyer and fight it. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.


Your team of Experts???
What are you... a Kennedy?
Maybe you should just take what you pay your lawyer and pay your tickets and the state would be a better place


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## Mattyc (Nov 16, 2003)

lakfan said:


> Just get a lawyer and fight it. *I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far*.


We would love to hear the evidence you have for almost doubling the speed limit, and if your team of experts is Superman, Jesus and Santa Clause you may have a chance. Also if you are 4-0 like you say, why would you brag about it on here... a cop forum? Just on that alone I hope they take away your PRIVILEGE to drive in Massachusetts.


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

Either way hes paying......." tea of experts ".who is it Grasshopper,Damm, Masscopguy and a bunch of others riding on the banned bus....


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

lakfan said:


> Just get a lawyer and fight it. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.


I suck at math and I'm no traffic enforcement expert, but I'm figuring your civil fine is less than $500? Any attorney worth his/her salt is going to cost at least $200 per hour these days, and I would estimate that between the actual appeal hearing and the preparation, you're going to be billed at least 10 hours, plus whatever your "team of experts" costs.

What kind of arrogant, pompous asshole spends over $2000 to fight a $500 ticket?


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## Foxy85 (Mar 29, 2006)

One who is full of crap. 

If it is true...

Any clerk magistrate will see right through it.... 4 "NR" on his record, and an attorney with a team of "experts" trying to disprove 102 in a 55 = responsible!! 

At least in my court it would be a 5 mnute hearing....the clerk would cut of the attorney's line of BS and give him the option to appeal or pay right away.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Delta784 said:


> What kind of arrogant, pompous asshole spends over $2000 to fight a $500 ticket?


The kind who's daddy is probably an attorney who got him/her out of every legal jam they found themselves in. Way to take responsibility for your actions jagoff.


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## JeepGirl (Jan 27, 2008)

It would have to be a daddy... what other lawyer is going to be at someones beck and call for issues such as a speeding ticket?

Think about it - its hard enough to play phone tag with a lawyer when you are paying big bucks... what kind of lawyer is gonna call back about a speeding ticket? Except maybe Gary Leblanc...


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Johnny Law said:


> The kind who's daddy is probably an attorney who got him/her out of every legal jam they found themselves in. Way to take responsibility for your actions jagoff.


or related to free em all Duval


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

lakfan said:


> Just get a lawyer and fight it. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.


...and then you woke up...

I'm an expert witness (DC and Super) in my field: $165/hr to consult...185/hr if I have to testify. I'm sure you're spending that kind of money for a mouthpiece and a "team" of experts...if you have money to burn, perhaps. In any event, regardless your shyster and "experts", you would not beat my VASCAR, friend (only one NR out of approximately 1000 V's).


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

I dont care who you have for a "team". You lose no matter what. I get paid to go to court, your lawyers get paid to go to court, everyone that works at the court gets paid to go to court. The only one that doesnt get paid to go to court is you. So tell me again how it is that you "win".


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

lakfan said:


> Just get a lawyer and fight it. I'm fighting mine in a few weeks (102 in a 55). Lawyer says I shouldn't have any problems getting it tossed with the evidence I have and my team of experts. I'm 4-0 so far.





Killjoy said:


> Good use of the legal system, turd.





Delta784 said:


> What kind of arrogant, pompous asshole spends over $2000 to fight a $500 ticket?


Sure he's a turd. But you know what? The end result is he's out $2k and one of our brother officers will have another 4 hour minimum of court time for 15 minutes of testimony that will help pay his heating bill this winter.

I applaud you, Turd Ferguson. Please fight any tickets I issue you. Please accept no personal respsosibility. I fully intend to help perpetuate your perception that you're "stickin' it to da man".


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## Guest (Nov 20, 2008)

Johnny Law said:


> The kind who's daddy is probably an attorney who got him/her out of every legal jam they found themselves in. Way to take responsibility for your actions jagoff.


Did I say my father was an attorney? No. Besides what difference would it make? You sound just like the cop that pulled me over asking who bought the car. He got pissed when I told him it was none of his business who bought the car and that it was a violation of my privacy rights. I'm sure he went snooping and saw my father's name on some documents anyways based on his rude comment. I'll be writing a letter to the chief about his poor customer service skills and how rude he was.

And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

lakfan said:


> Did I say my father was an attorney? No. Besides what difference would it make? You sound just like the cop that pulled me over asking who bought the car. He got pissed when I told him it was none of his business who bought the car and that it was a violation of my privacy rights. I'm sure he went snooping and saw my father's name on some documents anyways based on his rude comment. I'll be writing a letter to the chief about his poor customer service skills and how rude he was.
> 
> And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


I think we have had enough of this A-HOLE get on the bus.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

lakfan said:


> I'll be writing a letter to the chief about his poor customer service skills and how rude he was.


Hey, fuckstick. We aren't your slaves. Customer satisfaction isn't our goal, if you haven't noticed. He was "rude" because you were being a fucking douchebag. Get over it you pompous prick.

Just an FYI, the Chief will probably use your letter as TP the next time he takes a shit.



lakfan said:


> And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


Fucking liar. You know damn well that you are going to appeal the tickets that you WILL get.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Troll


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

lakfan said:


> And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


Bwahhahahahahah:L:


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

lakfan said:


> Did I say my father was an attorney? No. Besides what difference would it make? You sound just like the cop that pulled me over asking who bought the car. He got pissed when I told him it was none of his business who bought the car and that it was a violation of my privacy rights. I'm sure he went snooping and saw my father's name on some documents anyways based on his rude comment. I'll be writing a letter to the chief about his poor customer service skills and how rude he was.
> 
> And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


No shitstain, I answered another cop. You were a minor player in that answer. Goodbye, see you out on the road! I'm sure with the overpowered car daddy bought you, one of us will be dealing with you again. And for the record, I hope you had a blast sitting in lockup for your two drug offenses.


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## TacEntry (Nov 29, 2006)

lakfan said:


> Did I say my father was an attorney? No. Besides what difference would it make? You sound just like the cop that pulled me over asking who bought the car. He got pissed when I told him it was none of his business who bought the car and that it was a violation of my privacy rights. I'm sure he went snooping and saw my father's name on some documents anyways based on his rude comment. I'll be writing a letter to the chief about his poor customer service skills and how rude he was.
> 
> And for the record, the only other time I was in court was for the 2 possession charges I had, which won't happen anymore now that its legal.


C'mon guys & gals - 100% Troll. With a name like "lakfan"?! Lakers Fan? Dads an Attorney? Letter to the Cheif about Poor Customer Service Skills!? Pots legal now? How many more buttons can Lakfan push?! Too obvious!


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## Boston Man (May 6, 2008)

lol you guys keep saying lakfan is a troll yet you still respond to him


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Boston Man said:


> lol you guys keep saying lakfan is a troll yet you still respond to him


And like all trolls lakfan has joined the ride on the ban bus.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Boston Man said:


> lol you guys keep saying lakfan is a troll yet you still respond to him


If I had a choice, I would have busted his face up instead.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

resqjyw0 said:


> If I had a choice, I would have busted his face up instead.


You mean transforming it into a meaty pulp, right?


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## bbelichick (Aug 25, 2002)

soxin09 said:


> What's a gig line, and why would it need to be straight?


You are a real soup sandwich.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

I think this one has been beat to death (closed)


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