# lawful firearms use Civilian vs LEO



## bcibob670 (Dec 16, 2007)

Here is my take on this issue. When a lawfully permited civilian unholsters his firearm in the protection of him/herself or others from suffering serious of grevious bodily harm the police charge the citizen with a crime and let the criminal justice system decide the outcome . 

So. I ask the public and officers this: If law enforcement officers are to be held to a higher standard than civilians WHY ARE OFFICERS NOT CHARGED LIKE THE CITIZENS ARE IN CASES WHERE OFFICERS DRAW THEIR WEAPONS IN PERFORMANCE OF THEIR DUTY OR OFF DUTY?? 

OFFICERS ARE TRAINED TO HAVE THEIR WEAPON IN HAND OR IN THE HOLSTER AT THE READY IN CRISIS SITUATIONS LIKE APPROACHING A DOOR/MOTORVEHICLE WHEN A FELONY HAS OR IS LIKELY TO OCCUR. WHY IS IT WHEN CIVILIAN WHO GOES THROUGH SIMILAR FIREARMS TRAINING ARE CHARGED AND POLICE OFFICERS ARE NOT??. 

In a current case in Brockton Fire Fighter is in trouble because he came to the aid of two fellow firefighters who were being badly beaten and brandished his firearm and broke it up. he now is facing a hearing for probable cause. considering firefigher Orourke who was trained expertly by the US Marine Corp to use firearms like any officer in an academy . Why is he now charged with a crime for doing what he and officers were trained to do? POLICE are not allowed special priviledges in protecting themselves they are under even more strick rules than civilians are but for some reason officers don't get charged and civilians do. 

Police offcers are allowed to use their discretion in evaluating the totality of circumstances to decide the action to be taken after and incident. Common sense is the rule. or it was. 

Why the different standards of review if cops are really held to a higher standard??


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

Dinner is served.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

Huh ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

There are going to be a ton of posts I'm going to have to THANK on this one...

@OP oh... I don't know... MGLs? Use of force policies? 4th Amd? I think there are plenty of stories of lawful citizens defending themselves with firearms and walking away. Who pressed charges? The police or the guys he pulled the gun on? Why are you blaming the popo here? Sorry if I don't take your story at face value. Felony citizen arrest powers only apply to...ummm FELONIES?


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)




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## HuskyH-2 (Nov 16, 2008)

Christmas come early???


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## bcibob670 (Dec 16, 2007)

My understanding is the perps that beat up the firefighters screwed and at large. the popo's are to blame cuz their chief is a paper pusher and is more interested in avoiding law suits and is acting like boston on LTC and firearms issues.. I realize a question like this is asking for it but I need to debate the other side and need a cops point of view.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

bcibob670 said:


> My understanding is the perps that beat up the firefighters screwed and at large. the popo's are to blame cuz their chief is a paper pusher and is more interested in avoiding law suits and is acting like boston on LTC and firearms issues.. I realize a question like this is asking for it but I need to debate the other side and need a cops point of view.


You didn't come in like a debate. You came in like a douche.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

OK. I guess I'll start.

First of all, not in every case when a civilian produces a gun in defence, is he or she charged with a crime. Secondly, in the case of the Brocton Firefighter, was there or was there not, alcohol involved? I am not familiar with the case, so I can not give you an aswer as to why he was charged. Hell, I do not even kow what he was charged with.

As far as you having similar training to mine with regard to firearms???? Are you kidding me? When you say that USMC had trained this fireman in use of firearms, you are correct. The military training in regardsto firearms is a bit different then that of Police. After all, we are trained to STOP the act of agression, while the military istrained to ELIMINATE it.

You are quite full of yourself aren't you? You think that you know a first thing about what happens when we draw our weapons or even when we are forced to use them? You don't really know shit.

In case of an officer involved shooting, a criminal investigation begins forthwith. Officer's gun is seized, and he/she is placed on Admin. Leave. The officer is subjected to interviews and interrogations conducted by CPAC, IA, and District Attorney's office. A lawyer is given to the Officer by his union. if the Officer fucked up, charges follow.

You think you know a lot, but you are nothing but a Shit Stirring Fuckstick, and that MY take on the issue. MmmmK?


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## Sam1974 (Apr 8, 2009)




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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*BCI BOB*

*







*

*Is Back Again*


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## 47turksinajar (Oct 24, 2010)

bcibob670 said:


> So. I ask the public and officers this: If law enforcement officers are to be held to a higher standard than civilians WHY ARE OFFICERS NOT CHARGED LIKE THE CITIZENS ARE IN CASES WHERE OFFICERS DRAW THEIR WEAPONS IN PERFORMANCE OF THEIR DUTY OR OFF DUTY??
> 
> OFFICERS ARE TRAINED TO HAVE THEIR WEAPON IN HAND OR IN THE HOLSTER AT THE READY IN CRISIS SITUATIONS LIKE APPROACHING A DOOR/MOTORVEHICLE WHEN A FELONY HAS OR IS LIKELY TO OCCUR. WHY IS IT WHEN CIVILIAN WHO GOES THROUGH SIMILAR FIREARMS TRAINING ARE CHARGED AND POLICE OFFICERS ARE NOT??.


I'm going to ask you to calm the fuck down or I might have to freak the fuck out! :stomp:


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## SPINMASS (Jan 30, 2004)

Sam, could you pass the popcorn and beer. I just got a good seat for this one.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

47turksinajar said:


> I'm going to ask you to calm the fuck down or I might have to freak the fuck out! :stomp:


Go ahead, 47fagsinurass.....


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## EMTFORHIRE (Nov 11, 2009)

bcibob670 said:


> WHY ARE OFFICERS NOT CHARGED LIKE THE CITIZENS ARE IN CASES WHERE OFFICERS DRAW THEIR WEAPONS IN PERFORMANCE OF THEIR DUTY OR OFF DUTY??
> 
> OFFICERS ARE TRAINED TO HAVE THEIR WEAPON IN HAND OR IN THE HOLSTER AT THE READY IN CRISIS SITUATIONS LIKE APPROACHING A DOOR/MOTORVEHICLE WHEN A FELONY HAS OR IS LIKELY TO OCCUR. WHY IS IT WHEN CIVILIAN WHO GOES THROUGH SIMILAR FIREARMS TRAINING ARE CHARGED AND POLICE OFFICERS ARE NOT??.


Are you mentally challenged? The answer is simple there POLICE OFFICERS.

And as for the firefighter all they have to go on is his story. They have to find out the facts before they just let a man walk for pulling out a gun. Sadly in this day and age you cant just take someones word for what happened. Maybe he beat the other Firefighters in a rage and then pulled his gun out to scare them into not talking they don't know what really happened they weren't there so they must investigate the incident and find out exactly what happened to keep tards like you safe.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

What is up with this Twat anyway? He starts this BS and then POOF, in to thin air. I figured that he would at least stick around long enough to get some more red dots, but as always, hit and run.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

263FPD said:


> What is up with this Twat anyway? He starts this BS and then POOF, in to thin air. I figured that he would at least stick around long enough to get some more red dots, but as always, hit and run.


He's busy between this and Privateofficer.com.


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## Officer Drewkie (Oct 13, 2010)

I'm not sure why my supposed fellow officers on here got so offended by this post, but personally, i find it to be a perfectly fair question with pretty accurate accusations. my assumption is that the public and decision-making politicians who run the way these things go, hold officers to a higher standard because they are forced to LOOK for trouble (which can occasionally involve weapons such as guns).
Also, because we are on MASS cops, there isn't a single person who actually knows any of the real gun laws or is persistent enough to try to make any sense of them anyway.
LEO's are in a position of great power, (and because of the way things are run in good old MA), that usually includes political power. like someone else posted, they are automatically given a lawyer who is most likely an expert on the situation and when in the courtroom they're being looked at as an officer, not some average guy who doesnt do this everyday. regardless of appearance, record, or anything real, the judgement of innocence is going to be bias in favor of the officer (vs civilian).


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Officer Drewkie, your profile states that you are 21 years old. If this is accurate, according to Massachusetts State law governing the eligibility for the position of a Police officer, you have exactly 0 years on the job. On the other hand, given that the age you posted is correct then I have been on the job since you were about 7 and not yet old enough to even masturbate while thinking of being a cop some day. Who in the fuck are you, to come on this forum claiming to be "My fellow Officer"? Go get your fucking shine box n00b and start considering a phrase "Seen and not heard". Linger a bit and contribute something before you jump in feet first in to an adult conversation. Or if you feel like staying the course, I will bet that your stay here will be quite short lived. 


Fellow Officer my ass. What the fuck do you mean by stating that people here are not familiar with gun laws? 


Now back to BCIBOB. Seeing how MTC pointed out that your FF buddy was DK, he had to have been charged with Carrying While Intoxicated. Now he is lucky that all he got was criminal charges. Had that been me getting caught DK flashing a pistol, I would probably be bagging grosseries at market basket by now.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

263FPD said:


> Officer Drewkie, your profile states that you are 21 years old. If this is accurate, according to Massachusetts State law governing the eligibility for the position of a Police officer, you have exactly 0 years on the job.


He's probably a CJ major at Westfield State. They take intro to Criminal Justice and think they know everything.

BTW I'll ask some of my counterparts at Chicopee PD if they have a douche bag rookie running around.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

Officer Drewkie said:


> I'm not sure why my supposed fellow officers on here got so offended by this post, but personally, i find it to be a perfectly fair question with pretty accurate accusations. my assumption is that the public and decision-making politicians who run the way these things go, hold officers to a higher standard because they are forced to LOOK for trouble (which can occasionally involve weapons such as guns).
> Also, because we are on MASS cops, there isn't a single person who actually knows any of the real gun laws or is persistent enough to try to make any sense of them anyway.
> LEO's are in a position of great power, (and because of the way things are run in good old MA), that usually includes political power. like someone else posted, they are automatically given a lawyer who is most likely an expert on the situation and when in the courtroom they're being looked at as an officer, not some average guy who doesnt do this everyday. regardless of appearance, record, or anything real, the judgement of innocence is going to be bias in favor of the officer (vs civilian).


 BREAKING NEWS 

*Ray Herschel says we have a baggadouche in our midst*


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Q5-TPR said:


> Jusr going by his user name, I am going to assume BCIBOB670 is a Plymouth County Deputy Sheriff, assigned to BCI. 670 IS A PCSO BCI cruiser number. I am willing to bet he is not one of the CO's that paid his dues on the tiers, then earned his way out of the jail. He is probably another of "those" that got "on the job" by knowing the Sheriff... :redcarded:


You are correct he was with Plymouth County BCI and he was well outed
many times on MC by our members,if you search back on MC on his posts
and threads you can find it all.


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## cj3441 (Oct 14, 2004)

bcibob...the proverbial turd in the punch bowl.


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## rg1283 (Sep 14, 2005)

Didn't they get rid of Plymouth County BCI or phasing it out?


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## bbelichick (Aug 25, 2002)

Officer Drewkie said:


> I'm not sure why my supposed fellow officers on here got so offended by this post, but personally, i find it to be a perfectly fair question with pretty accurate accusations. my assumption is that the public and decision-making politicians who run the way these things go, hold officers to a higher standard because they are forced to LOOK for trouble (which can occasionally involve weapons such as guns).
> Also, because we are on MASS cops, there isn't a single person who actually knows any of the real gun laws or is persistent enough to try to make any sense of them anyway.
> LEO's are in a position of great power, (and because of the way things are run in good old MA), that usually includes political power. like someone else posted, they are automatically given a lawyer who is most likely an expert on the situation and when in the courtroom they're being looked at as an officer, not some average guy who doesnt do this everyday. regardless of appearance, record, or anything real, the judgement of innocence is going to be bias in favor of the officer (vs civilian).


It's always refreshing to be educated by a 21 year old "officer".:banghead:

Somewhere in Chicopee, an FTO did not do his job.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 ----------



niteowl1970 said:


> He's probably a CJ major at Westfield State. They take intro to Criminal Justice and think they know everything.
> 
> BTW I'll ask some of my counterparts at Chicopee PD if they have a douche bag rookie running around.


Probably an auxiliary on Chicopee or West Side (if anything)...which gives him exactly zero police experience.

Maybe he's an expert at policing the Big E or something.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Officer Drewkie said:


> my assumption is that the public and decision-making politicians who run the way these things go, hold officers to a higher standard because they are forced to LOOK for trouble (which can occasionally involve weapons such as guns).


Really? Where is it exactly that you are FORCED to go look for trouble? Around these here parts, guys are so busy responding to calls that they don't have any time to look for spare change on the ground if they wanted to. Who even remembers what it means to be proactive?



Officer Drewkie said:


> Also, because we are on MASS cops, there isn't a single person who actually knows any of the real gun laws or is persistent enough to try to make any sense of them anyway.


Dude.... Really? You deserve a punch in the face or even an uppercut palm heel strike to the nose for that gem....



Officer Drewkie said:


> LEO's are in a position of great power, (and because of the way things are run in good old MA), that usually includes political power.


I lol'd at that one. Don't confuse legit LEO's with the Sheriff hacks. Ok, Ofc. Dumbass?



Officer Drewkie said:


> like someone else posted, they are automatically given a lawyer who is most likely an expert on the situation


In other words, they are least likely to not be an expert on the situation? I don't know where your sample population came from but a lot of union appointed lawyers make public defenders look like courtroom gods...

You are so dumb, you are really dumb, fo' real.... So you can run and tell that, homeboy.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXvZeJSUDPM"]YouTube - Antoine Dodson (RAW footage)[/nomedia]


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## bbelichick (Aug 25, 2002)

Big.G said:


> You are so dumb, you are really dumb, fo' real.... So you can run and tell that, homeboy.
> 
> YouTube - Antoine Dodson (RAW footage)


Better:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEvNS5TzvwM&NR=1"]YouTube - BEST REMIX ~ ANTOINE DODSON~WTC Building 7 Fell, How?ask NORAD Barry Soetoro and Bush[/nomedia]


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## Officer Drewkie (Oct 13, 2010)

263FPD said:


> Officer Drewkie, your profile states that you are 21 years old. If this is accurate, according to Massachusetts State law governing the eligibility for the position of a Police officer, you have exactly 0 years on the job. On the other hand, given that the age you posted is correct then I have been on the job since you were about 7 and not yet old enough to even masturbate while thinking of being a cop some day. Who in the fuck are you, to come on this forum claiming to be "My fellow Officer"? Go get your fucking shine box n00b and start considering a phrase "Seen and not heard". Linger a bit and contribute something before you jump in feet first in to an adult conversation. Or if you feel like staying the course, I will bet that your stay here will be quite short lived.
> 
> Fellow Officer my ass. What the fuck do you mean by stating that people here are not familiar with gun laws?
> 
> Now back to BCIBOB. Seeing how MTC pointed out that your FF buddy was DK, he had to have been charged with Carrying While Intoxicated. Now he is lucky that all he got was criminal charges. Had that been me getting caught DK flashing a pistol, I would probably be bagging grosseries at market basket by now.


My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies. After going back and looking at all the posts on this topic, I saw everyone calling each other douschebags and assholes and posting ridiculous pictures that arent even funny. I assumed theres gunna be a bunch of that but maybe there's a few people actually going to share their opinion in this "adult conversation" as "263FPD" put it so stupidly. I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop? thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

Officer Drewkie said:


> My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies. After going back and looking at all the posts on this topic, I saw everyone calling each other douschebags and assholes and posting ridiculous pictures that arent even funny. I assumed theres gunna be a bunch of that but maybe there's a few people actually going to share their opinion in this "adult conversation" as "263FPD" put it so stupidly. I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop? thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


One question (if you are a PO, which I doubt)....how did you pass the psych?


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

cc3915 said:


> One question (if you are a PO, which I doubt)....how did you pass the psych?


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Drewkie, I have many appropriate pictures I would like to share in order to express how I feel about your entire 2 post history here, but as CC would say......"Hush, this ISN'T the green room!"


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

Officer Drewkie said:


> My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies. After going back and looking at all the posts on this topic, I saw everyone calling each other douschebags and assholes and posting ridiculous pictures that arent even funny. I assumed theres gunna be a bunch of that but maybe there's a few people actually going to share their opinion in this "adult conversation" as "263FPD" put it so stupidly. I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop? thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


While "going back and looking at ALL the posts on this topic," did you happen to forget your very own first post shitting on masscops members???? Nice job, rook.



bbelichick said:


> Better:
> 
> YouTube - BEST REMIX ~ ANTOINE DODSON~WTC Building 7 Fell, How?ask NORAD Barry Soetoro and Bush


I was aware of that video, but opted for the shorter version in case the FNG didn't get the reference.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Hahaha Drew, you had your proverbial ass handed to you, now you are going to cry like a bitch. Dude, can you even make it through shift change in the ready room without changing your tampon? Christ, my shift changes are as bad as anything on here and I can (and often do) add to the mix.

Point being, and you should have learned this in the academy or at least by a senior officer, is to shut the fuck up when you are new, watch what is going on, and listen to what is being said. I have boots that have almost as much street time as you do life on this earth. So you coming on here all brand new and unblooded, spewing stupid shit, that pisses people off. 

So, to sum it up, when we want to hear your opinion, we'll just fart.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

As to the original post, the keyword is discretion. In my time on the department I have responded to more than a few bar brawls. I have never found the need to draw my weapon to break up a fight. Mace, nightstick, or maybe even the taser but never my firearm. Your post also indicates that the weapon was brandished, brandished how. I really think it all comes down to discretion and common sense, and if there was alcohol involved discretion and common sense seem to go out the window.

As for the rookie from Western Massachusetts, masscops is like a television if you don't like what's on either change the channel or turn it off. Seriously what kind of response did you expect. This isn't the debate club as with many departments you need to earn the right to even speak. There is an unwritten rule in my department, don't open your mouth unless you have five years under your belt. That's the way it was for most of us that have been on for any amount of time. If it's not like that to your department then shame on your FTO.

While I encourage civil debate and would prefer less name-calling etc. etc. I wouldn't expect senior members of the law-enforcement community to be put in their place by somebody who hasn't earned the right to do so.

Now, something your FTO should have said to you on day one. Sit there, shut up and speak when spoken to.

If you don't like what's being said here, there is always officer.com


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

Officer Drewkie said:


> My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies. After going back and looking at all the posts on this topic, I saw everyone calling each other douschebags and assholes and posting ridiculous pictures that arent even funny. I assumed theres gunna be a bunch of that but maybe there's a few people actually going to share their opinion in this "adult conversation" as "263FPD" put it so stupidly. I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop? thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


And MY apologies too. I didn't give you a fair shake by actually reading your entire post(s). I was in a hurry because I was afraid I may be the only one to not get the chance to call you a douchebag before the thread got locked. Have a good day DOUCHE.


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## Guest (Dec 6, 2010)

Yup. Grab some beers at The Charlie Horse on a Fri or Sat night. At close, sometimes u will see a PCBCI cruiser in the lot with all his lights on with the local PD. He must be there for photos and prints "just in case".


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## grn3charlie (Jul 18, 2005)

Officer Drewkie said:


> My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies.
> 
> I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop?
> 
> thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


Seriously? This is how you want people to see you? As a cry baby?


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

grn3charlie said:


> Seriously? This is how you want people to see you? As a cry baby?


We don't need an ate up douche like that anyway. With such warped reasoning and thin skin the streets of Chicopee would eat him up alive. I'm thinking a better job for him would be checking in trucks at the Home Depot warehouse in Westfield. He can sit in a little shack all night reading the Galls catalog. He'll tell all his co-workers that he got a 100 on his CS test and will be a municipal cop or State Trooper really soon.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Officer Drewkie said:


> My apologies for being a rookie, and it's good that none of you were ever rookies. After going back and looking at all the posts on this topic, I saw everyone calling each other douschebags and assholes and posting ridiculous pictures that arent even funny. I assumed theres gunna be a bunch of that but maybe there's a few people actually going to share their opinion in this "adult conversation" as "263FPD" put it so stupidly. I can see I should'nt bother posting anything on this site unless it's calling someone I dont know a pussy or retard or talk about them masturbating to being a cop? thanks for the great debate/forum/annoying childish bullshit.


I think this one is funny










and don't let the door hit you on the way out.


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

I always thought it was because cops rule, and everyone else drools?


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Simon said:


> Yup. Grab some beers at The Charlie Horse on a Fri or Sat night. At close, sometimes u will see a PCBCI cruiser in the lot with all his lights on with the local PD. He must be there for photos and prints "just in case".


They are usually camped out at West Bridgewater PD after midnight. To be fair, it's pretty easy to get out to Brockton and 24/495 to "respond" in the busier parts of the County.

getting back to OP and related concerns;

_There WAS alcohol involved - *nozzlejockey shouldn't have been boozing with his gun* - however the gun - and the presentation of it, likely saved his friends from being beaten to death - *it was* *still wrong to have it*/*pull it out*_

MTC has me confused as to his position. To what degree was the licensed person "intoxicated"? So the mere possession of a firearm, which arguably prevented serious bodily injury or death, was wrong?


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

> Another question just popped into my head - WHY does "Officer Dookie" from Chicopee care about / know about an incident in Brockton?


I think he just wanted to be heard and let us all know that he is "On The Job". He came off like a rebel without a clue. I still doubt his LE status at this time.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

mtc said:


> Another question just popped into my head - WHY does "Officer Dookie" from Chicopee care about / know about an incident in Brockton?


Contrary to popular belief we have access to media outlets out here. :wink_smile:


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

Done.


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