# Who do you think is failing the criminal justice system?



## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

With problems all around, I wonder what people think is the biggest obstacle in our system perpetuating crime.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

I voted judges, but district att's are right up there as well. Not the career DA, but the bolshy scumbags that are just there to get experience before they go to the "darkside".


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

You need more than one choice on this one.


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## no$.10 (Oct 18, 2005)

Judges are all too happy to CWOF a guilty plea.

I'll never understand how someone can plead guilty and get a cwof, I mean, shouldn't they at least be found guilty with a SS? They are admitting guilt, right? Anybody home?


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2005)

The a-holes commits a crime and gives the cop a hard time and doesn't care. Why? Because, he knows that the judge will make it easy for the a-hole to walk right out of the court and, even if fined, will never pay a dime and blow of warrant, after warrant, after warrant. How many times have you arrested someone who has a history of blowing off court, getting default warrants, going to court, blowing off court, getting more default warrants, and on and on. The only one who is treated like an a-hole in court is the police officer. As for the ADA, they have a 1,000 pound stack of cases for the day. How much attention can they really give your case.


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

Judges are the weakest link in justice. While many obviously know the laws and interpret them VERY well, they are a joke when it comes to sentencing. Cases can have proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and then bang the black robe gives a CWOF or Probation for the 15th time. They shitbag can have a 100 page printout, and get a CWOF. How many times have you looked at a BOP and say to yourself "how can this guy still be walking on the streets?" I've seen BOPs of guys that have mulitple attempted murder raps and numerous armed robberies in their BOP, all with guilty findings, and they are only 35 y/o and today walking free. All thanks to the Judge that gave him a pathetic sentence. WTF? :shock:

The DA's in my area are good, but as usual they are very overworked. Too much of a caseload.

Probation Officers are pretty good. The problem with probation is the Judges. The Prob. Officers "violate" a shitbag, and the judge says "bad boy, pay a fine" and he walks. WTF is the point?

With weak sentences, the shitbags could care less. They do a crime and they are out in 6 months. Some people say the system is broken... I say the judges lack balls, all of them. If one Judge slaps a BIG sentence on someone, they appeal and the appeal judge says its "too harsh" and reduces it. 
Uh, your honor the original sentence wasn't harsh, its just that you don't have the balls to affirm. This is why we have so many repeat offenders. Many first timers in Jail get 30 or 90 days. Simple stuff for the early criminal. How about packing them away for 6 months to a year? That would be a deterrent to convicts and cause others to think twice. There are too many fines and CWOF's flying around. It needs to stop. If the shitbird is on probation and is guilty as sin, then boom! guilty! and give him time in the HOC or DOC and sentence him/her to time for the charge they were on probabtion for...not a pathetic fine or more probation.

The system is NOT broken, we do our job, probation does theirs and ADA's do what they know their Judge will allow. Granted there are a few pathetic ADA's, but its mostly the Judge that screws things up. There needs to be tighter sentencing guidelines in our judicial system. More mandatory minimum sentances and increase the length on existing mandatory sentences.

And House Arrest, what the hell is that? Bad boy you're grounded? House Arrest is like mom or dad taking the TV away. I fail to see how this is very effective for criminals. At least years ago when you sent a kid to his room he would be bored. Today they have computers, video games, music and whatever else. An adult now will have TV with satellite, movies, computers, friends visiting all hours, cookouts in the back yard, house parties, hell they can even resume business at home (dealing dope). Real tough.


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## Clouseau (Mar 9, 2004)

The next question is, "Why are the judges like this?"

Is it because they are all liberals, a different breed from the old days?
Is it because they are politicians and answer to higher ups?
Is it because they are scared?
Maybe worried about bad press from the ACLU?
Worried about their image as too tough?

I've talked to a few judges over the years. When asked about cutting everyone loose, there question to me was, "Where are my going to put them?"

They will tell you... each day/week, they have a list from the jails/prisons with the number of openings available. With not many slots on any given day, they reserve jail time for only the most serious offenses of the day/week. 

The judges blame the lack of jails/prisons. So now it becomes an issue of money. Where are they going to get the money to build new jails/prisons? Then "where" are they going to build them. No one wants one in their community. The list goes on and on. 

Dont' expect it to get better.


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

Good point. The state "doesn't have the money" for jails, but they can throw several millions into a needle exchange program. :shock: WTF? Priorities.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

It is not the business of the judge to worry about "where are we going to put them?". That is the business of the executive. Judges just use that as an excuse to further their marxist agenda. Sentence the scumbags to jail, and let Mitt and Co. deal with it. But that is not going to happen as housing space is just a red herring to cover the judges ideologies.


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## THE RP (Oct 1, 2005)

No doubt the judges. But when discussing the problems with the judges you have to look farther into it..You have to take a very close look at the incestuous relationship in the courthouses between the judges and the defense bar...Thats a huge reason why the judges are the way they are and cause the problems that they do. They take care of their own (Ie lawyers) and they answer to nobody. It is seldomly about the law and the victim. More frequently it's easy to see that it is about personalities, power and ego. Revolving door courthouses means job security and more cabbage for their comrade lawyers and the commonwealth. IE Numerous continuances granted only for the defense means more appearances for the defense which means more billing hours and that goes for both public and private defense. Happens all the time and you can go on and on with examples... The defense attorneys rule the courthouses and the majority of judges are in it with them. They get away with it because of the huge amount of political power that the defense bar in Mass. has. Look at the legislature and the Melanies Law fiasco...A bunch of defense attorneys worried they would lose their juice protecting their cut of the action so they try to gut the laws. We all know these same guys are the guys who help get people judgeships and clerk jobs and court officer jobs etc etc etc...If you want to be a judge. Be a slime bag defense attorney with deep pockets and pick up the tab at the country club.

Needless to point out to those of you out there who bring alot of stuff into court the biggest problems that come from all of this are 1- When you have a real victim in our system, there is no justice for them. 2- The majority of shitbags know the situation and take advantage of it. 3- There is no way it will be fixed because the people who would do the fixing are the ones benefiting the most and are seldomy negatively affected...The Lawyers, judges and legislators..

As far as the DA's go I think that they are a product of the enviroment...In this state they are paid poorly for a reason and treated the way they are in the system for a reason...The machine in this state does not want professional prosecutors and they never will. Thats why when you come across one of those ADAs that have been around for a long time and they give a shit...don't ask them why, just ask them if you can buy them a beer..

As far as the space issue goes...connect the dots to the Sheriffs from the lawyer legislators and low and behold, one can understand why there are never enough beds....

Oh yeah..Lets not forget the general public...The sheep...They don't want to know, they don't want to care...And that same machine knows this. They know that the majority of the general public will never get a taste of the system and do not care how things work because they are busy trying to pay to fill their gas tanks or put their kids through college. Never mind the press in this state who is so embroiled in politics they will never tell the truth because they are not allowed to.

I know that we as a state do not corner the market with these problems and it has to make you think where will it end. It starts to resonate into the whole discussion of the overall societal problems we face as a nation with the erosion of family values and all that...There is no doubt to me that we are on a slippery slope...But at least we can look ourselves in the mirror based on the basic principals of decency and honor and know that we do our job. More than I can say for our esteemed members of the bench or the bar.

This has been quite cathartic...Time to go throw up now


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Holy Cow, RP! I agree with what you said...let's not forget that our "legislator's for life" are by and large...lawyers. You can count on more laws crafted to enrich their colleagues. Further, the lemming doesn't care until it affects their kin/kith: then it's why, why, why? I answer them: because you didn't give a sh#t. Reap what you have sown.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

The problem is society in general, all of the other issues brought forth (judges, DA, legislators) are all symptoms of the failure of the system, not the cause. It sucks to do your job and have the offender go free, but that is a symptom of an over crowded system, not of judges being liberal. We currently have more people incarcerated then in any other time in our history. You also have to acknowledge that violent crime has declined in recent years. Is a decline in violent crime indicative of a broken system? The real issue is that our values as cops is different than those of the general public. We think that EVERYONE should go to jail. The rest of the world doesn't see it that way.

Is jail the answer? I don't know...With a 70% recidivism rate for some crimes, I would suggest that it serves as a temporary fix, not a solution. In addition, most of the crimes we deal with will not carry life sentences, so we WILL get these people back at some point after they serve there time. Look at the numbers, jail is not the deterrent to crime that we think it is. 7 out of 10 don't mind going back! If jail is going to be a deterrent, it has to be a more "unpleasant" place to be, which will never happen. It has to be transformed into a place that really sucks to be in. For some of the worst offenders, jail isn't half bad compared to what they have on the outside.


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## texdep (Aug 28, 2003)

Having spent some time in a state that elects judges I can say that I would love to see that here in MA. While the Judges would not always act in the manner LEO's would like, it would be satisfying to know that they were accountable to someone (the Voters) on a regular basis.


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## THE RP (Oct 1, 2005)

Chief you are absolutely right about the societal issues, no doubt....However nobody can deny that we as a state have serious problems within our judicial system. I do not simply waive it off as liberalism, I call it morally corrupt...It stinks to high heaven in every courthouse across the state. It reeks of favoritism, nepotism and patronage..It's the good old boy network every day in district court. Superior is somewhat better however there you have judges that are so full of themseleves they will disagree with the truth just to tell themseleves they are important. Nevermind the law and the truth, lets make history and get our name in the law books forever... The bottom line as it relates to this poll is the judges are the ones letting us down within the system. I say us meaning the rest of the civilized world, not the police.

The lockup space and recidivism rate issues are very interesting to ponder however I truly believe that a choice has to be made. Keep talking about it and do nothing or start holding people accountable for what they do. If they want back in, we should oblige. If they commit the crime they go away. It is the system we have so we have to stick with it. We should not be tolerating high brow ivy league clowns in a robes making asshole decisions jeopordizing the peace and dignity of our existence because they don't want to overburden our esteemed sheriffs or have recently read an interesting article on fetal alcohol syndrome. Our esteemed sheriffs by the way who long ago should have ponied up to the table and said we need more walls and more beds and more guards. Yes it costs money but we spend a lot of money on alot of silly things other than supporting the basic pillars of our criminal justice system. Instead everyone wants to hear what Harvard has to say about their latest sociological study or what this book and that book said. Oh yeah lets start a program. No even better lets have a summit... Yeah I love it all also but we are fiddling while Rome is burning because regardless of what those statistics say, where I work there are more guns, more violence and assholes than ever before and they are continuously being empowered by their judicial experience. Also these assholes are a new breed of cat because they are exceedingly more morally deficient due to our overlying societal problems. So what do we do? Call it like it is and hold the broken parts of the system we have accountable or roll over..

Those statistics by the way are a whole separate debate based on how those statistics have been effected by the current law enforcement management theories and methods that so many administrations, especially large administrations seem to subscribe to. Yes we do things better these days, some things have worked but it's the same job on the same street and the same stuff is going on. It's just being called different things.

I agree with your points but I wonder as a human, not a cop, where will it end. Hopefully not with one of our loved ones being hurt by a miscreant that some judge let off on a CWOF because he plays golf with his attorney or it was a long weekend and the courtroom is overcrowded. (This happens by the way)...And no chief..not all management is evil..


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## Clouseau (Mar 9, 2004)

Nice post RP.

It is the same old job, but things are getting worse.
The "punks" of today are definitely different form those of yesterday.

When I started, we were on a first name basis with the ADA's at court. They seemed to care a little more.
All the judges had a reputation. You would hear people whispering in the hallway about old so and so... "He don't put up with any BS." 
All the tuff, good old judges are gone. Now all you hear in the hallway is about what judge is easier, more liberal than the other. 

I don't bother to learn any of the ADA's names anymore. Why bother? They won't be there the next time I'm in court. I can't blame them though. For 35k a year? They run around with 15 folders every morning. They don't have time to try a case. You finally catch up to them and they tell you your case was transferred to another ADA. You track down the second ADA only to be told your case was continued, plead, CWOF etc. It's a big joke. No problem though...I work nights. If I said I testified 5% of the time, I would be telling a lie. If the press only knew about court, maybe they would leave the traffic details alone for a while.

They really are all in it together. Just watching them operate proves it. You need a good OUI lawyer, go see attorney A and watch him do his thing...continuing until his boy is on the bench. You need a good 94c guy? Try attorney B... watch him operate with his boy.

The recidivism stats the Chief pointed out are frightening. Maybe we're releasing them to soon? Maybe their "time" is too easy? I don't know. Perhaps we should ship them all out west to the "Sheriff Joe" style jails. Let them sleep in the desert without their TV's and weight rooms. There's plenty of land to build prisons and no neighbors to complain. Jobs would be created. There would be plenty of work for the boys coming out of the service. {Guards}

There are plenty of solutions, but it seem the cops are the only ones that care. Everyone else is making too much money.

As Tex said, a good start would be to elect judges every four years... from district court to the Supreme court.

There was a pro law enforcement attorney that used to post on his board. I would be curious to here his opinion.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Sorry Chief, I have to take issue with you on this one. First, the majority of cops I know have no interest in sending everyone we arrest to jail. Plainly, though, many who need to go there do not.

Second, the punishment should fit the crime. To design a punishment as a deterrent does not work and is just plain wrong. Witness the Rockefeller drug laws in NY: seven years for possession of marijuana. Talk about a waste of your much lamented jail space. If a punishment has the added effect of deterrence, fine. But deterrence is not the reason for punishment...punishment of the individual for its crime is. 

Third, we need more jail space. You all can wring your hands and sob about "sociology" and its theories but the fact remains: "sociology" is not a science, and if it is an art, its on a level with "piss Christ, shit Madonna and Robert Maplethorpe". "Warehousing" works. If the scumbags are locked-up, they are not committing crimes (against law abiding citizens). Let's not waste jail space on non-violent offenders. 

Clouseau is right about jails. It's "cool" in certain sub-cultures to go to jail...take a look at "urban chic" sometime...but I wonder how "cool" it would be if jail was like Sheriff Joe's jails, pink undies and all.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

dcs224- no need to apologize, I can appreciate an alternate viewpoint. 

I understand your reasoning behind punishment, but punishment comes after the fact...the damage is done, victims cannot be made "whole" no matter how long you lock someone up for. Is there a measurable amount of satisfaction for victims when the offender is put away... absolutely. Warehousing, well, you may keep an offender down to only one victim. My point is that jail has to SUCK so bad that the risk of going to jail outweighs the reward of criminality. I love Sheriff Joe in AZ. He's got the right idea. It will never happen in the People's Republic of Massachusetts.
Look at European countries. Drink and drive = never have a license again...no OUI problem! I consider myself to be pretty moderate politically, but when it comes to hardcore, violent, criminals...try jail, do it again...try cutting out the cancer from society permanently! (OK, I'll switch to decaf now and climb down from the book depository window)


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## sylvester (Dec 17, 2005)

you forgot to mention the Dummycrats in the State Legislature.. look how they predictably try to undermine every single bill that would toughen things up on criminals. Flaming liberals.


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## Guest (Jan 1, 2006)

sylvester said:


> you forgot to mention the Dummycrats in the State Legislature.. look how they predictably try to undermine every single bill that would toughen things up on criminals. Flaming liberals.


It's not so much that they're liberals, it's so many of them are criminal defense lawyers in real life. Why would they vote for something that's going to make their real job any more difficult than it need be?


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

No....actually you're both right

Majority have liberal viewpoint + tangible percentage are lawyers = Soft on Crime!
:jestera:


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

They spend too much money on "rehabilitation" instead of expanding existing jail space. The majority of these shitbags CANNOT be "rehabilitated". Most folks sent to jail/prison are NOT first time offenders. We all know that for someone to see actual time behind bars, they must usually have a prior court record with a "few" charges. If they didn't learn their lesson after their first 2 arrests then there's no "rehabilitation" for them. Stop wassting my F'ing tax dollars on these so called rehab programs and use it for building more cells to make our communities safer. 

When I say safer I don't only mean from violent criminals but also to keep it safer from the shitbags that keeps breaking into homes, dealing dope, OUI's, etc. Like I've said before, we all see guys with huge BOP's still roaming around. To me, thats a BIG problem.

They cannot be rehabilitated, so why bother spending the money? Just like the $10 million dollar push they gave the Dept. of Public Health for needle exchange program. Please!! That is aweful.


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## sylvester (Dec 17, 2005)

Democrats, liberals, soft on crime pansies, liars, high tax lovers, anti police, political hack lovers.... no difference - Real men and people who think, vote Republican. Those who don't are usually ignorant,misguided or are looking for a hand out from those of us who choose to live responsibly and not victimize others.. liberals/dummycrats su**. I am sooo sick of their whining.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2006)

Jail in and of itself is not the solution. I am not big on the feel good "rehab" programs, but just putting someone in jail and then letting them out a few months/years later is no solution. All the scumbags do is network and learn new things to do to commit crimes.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

it's a total and complete lack of respect for everyone and everything in society. 20 yrs ago a guy gave you shit and you split him. gave you more shit, you split him again. people feared the police and that was a good thing.

Then the lollicops came around with their community policing and how if you only held poor johnny's hand he wouldn't be so tramautized. pussy cops became pussy chiefs and the rest is history. We have become a society of victims who can't even wipe their asses on their own. Judges who sentence drug addicted housebreakers to reading books.Kids who are drugged up at an early age with ritalin because they are too active and then anti-depressants because we cant figure out why they are so down after pumping more drugs into them. people who, not only should have had a dozen abortions, but should have been an abortion themselves. A world filled with people who are just damn lazy then expect everyone to give them the handouts they demand they are entitled to. Dammit just give me the opportunity to wipe out entire neighborhoods that serve, nor will they ever serve, absolutely not a single ounce of purpose whatsoever. They can all go to &^%$$*^&*%%$#%#&*(()^&%$#[email protected]% for all I care. 

Might as well toss in the guy who invented the taser. If you shoot them dead then you'll be crucified til the cows come home. Use the taser and they die and the results are the same. Arm the police with water balloons for protection and watch out for the backlash on the evening news because the water wasn't even at room temperature.:fire: :fire: :fire: :fire: 

I'm going for a beer


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## laxball33 (Mar 23, 2004)

judges are the worst. Any one who's ever dealt with "not guilty Neagle" out of Brockton District Court knows what I'm talking about. The guy will let a defendant come in with a smoking gun in his hand and CWOF the charge. It almost makes you not want to do your job, and then you remember that although that judge is an ass you still get your court time, after that you sleep oh soooo well....


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

> people who, not only should have had a dozen abortions, but should have been an abortion themselves.


Now that's is the perfect statement to describe a huge problem with today's society. Good point. Beware: Stupid people are breeding.


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## Tackleberry22 (Dec 21, 2002)

I was surprised you didn't have the liberal government officials. They appoint the liberal judges who then cause a further weakening of the CJ system. However, WHERE IN THE HELL WERE THE A-HOLE DEFENSE LAWYERS! Oh, and stupid jurors who believe the pile of steamy crap the Defense gives them.


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## Flavor Flav! (Dec 22, 2005)

Can I "take this under advisement" and get back to you in a few weeks...



USMCTrooper said:


> With problems all around, I wonder what people think is the biggest obstacle in our system perpetuating crime.


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## SinePari (Aug 15, 2004)

All juvies who commit 3 misdemeanors shall go to a 6-month boot camp. Discipline, respect and get their GED. My 2 cents. Gotta get 'em straightened out before they turn 18 or else.

Here's what Holyoke Chief of Police Anthony Scott posted on their website concerning liberal judges:

http://www.holyokepd.org/news.html


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

Nice statement by Chief Scott on the bottom of that page.




> Chief Scott said, "This is yet another example of an individual being arrested over and over again, released on little or no bail, only to go back to the same neighborhood and wreak havoc with his drug dealings."


 

So True!! Sounds like a good Chief!


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## EOD1 (Mar 11, 2004)

Who ever the 2 people that said it was the Police's fault should explain their vote.


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