# private Law Enforcement/Security/Bodyguards



## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

I've noticed that there are a bunch of security folks from Saudi Arabia in the Berkshires lately, these guys are armed to the TEETH. How the hell does that happen? I'm all for people being able to carry what they want, but my understanding was that in the US, all diplomatic security was done by DSS.
Considering that 1. No civilian could carry a PDW for defense. 2. The CLEO in Pittsfield won't even issue Class A ALP's, and half these guys are going to be hanging out with the Gov (who seems to hate guns) tomorrow at Cranwell. WTF is going on?
I'm sure there's going to be state police security and the STOP team will be in full effect...how do they feel about these guys toting the MP5K PDW and the MP7's all around?


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## copcop (Mar 17, 2006)

ummmmmmm....what????


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

diplomatic immunity? ....or they just contribute heavily to the govna


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

I am wondering how some foreigners are allowed to carry machine guns in MA for personal protection. It doesn't seem legal or correct.
The guns seen to date, and none too concealed, HK MP5 PDW and HP MP7 PDW.


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## mikey742 (Mar 4, 2005)

Thats great foreigners can come here and carry machine guns with out a license but I can own one. I see something wrong with that. Any one else?


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Diplomatic immunity if they are protecting officials, the same courtsy afforded us
in foriegn countries with our diplomats.

The leftist gun laws in MA completly suck.

Sot was it an American security company ? (Blackwater)


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Actually no. In the US no foreign national or security service thereof can carry machine guns. They have to be US citizens ding the security detail, and I can tell you for a fact these guys were not. It's the same thing that got Michael McCann of the UN in hot water.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

That is why I asked if it was Blackwater,they have some contracts covering 
situations like this paid for by the US Government.
If it was Hart Security not a US company they may have been working under a
Blackwater contract as a sub.


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## Tuna (Jun 1, 2006)

Holy Shit, who's coming to dinner out in the Berkshires?


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

One of the Crown Princes of Saudi Arabia, Deval is going to be here, big wigs from GE and SABIC it seems.


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2007)

I'm betting it's blackwater. They employ former special ops people from all over the world not just from our armed forces. They have huge Government contracts to guard diplomats in Iraq and throughout the middle east, are armed like you wouldn't believe and are very effective. If it's not them then it's got to be something along those lines or yes, something realy is messed up around here. Not that that would surprise anyone!


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

> I'm sure there's going to be state police security and the STOP team will be in full effect...how do they feel about these guys toting the MP5K PDW and the MP7's all around?


That's all worked out with the State Department guys, we actually have very little say in the matter.

I have no idea who would be doing foreign nationals' security...often its the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service. If they are employing some secret-squirrel security of their own, I don't know who they would use, but there are many companies out there that provide those kinds of service.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Yeha these guys were not DSS, in talking over lunch it was actually some kid brother to the CP and his "security company"...it's just a freaking travesty this crap goes on.


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## Duff112 (Apr 14, 2006)

SOT said:


> Yeha these guys were not DSS, in talking over lunch it was actually some kid brother to the CP and his "security company"...it's just a freaking travesty this crap goes on.


SOT-

Not that I wouldn't disagree with you on how f**ck'd up the gun laws are here in Taxachusetts but I think these are really two seperate issues running here...

Gun laws which regulate citizens of the Commonwealth vs. Diplomatic protection.

Harry touched on it in that I wouldn't want some foreign protection service protecting our president, especially in a developing country. I want only SService or Diplomatic Security protecting our people with all the weaponry they can conceal/utilize.

Remember the First World War essentially started because of the assisination of a diplomat.


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## Inspector (Nov 13, 2006)

Having been in a position of knowing I can assure you that DSS has allowed foreign nationals to carry all kinds of weapons in the U.S. to guard their dignitaries just as we have been allowed to carry weapons of all types in most foreign countries to protect our people. They expect, however, that those foreign security people not be too open about exposing those weapons to public view just as those countries expect the same of us. And yes, it does have something to do with diplomatic privilege and immunity. We are expected to extend same to them...especially those that get very up-tight about those issues like those in the suspected countries. All of the foreign security people I saw had kept those weapons out of sight behind the tinted glass in those limos and suvs. I remember one foreign officer working a security detail here (a personal friend) who said the only problem he ever ran into in the U.S. in carrying his handgun was in NYC where the Sullivan Law was an issue. They found some way around that however after the State Department had a pow-wow with the powers that be.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

No actually there is only one issue here, and to that issue as I originally stated, I have no problem with DSS toting whatever the hell they want.

Show me a law or treaty that allows diplomats to have their countries people carry firearms in the US, further, show me a law or treaty that allows foreign diplomats access to automatic weapons in the US. Then after you can't really find those, show me a law or treaty that allows a foreign private security firm access to firearms in the US. (pay close attention to how long a diplomat must be in the US prior to gaining access to firearms, that they must comply with federal laws and state laws). Note that we are talking about post sample machine guns, something highly restricted and something that can't even be imported without certain paperwork.

As stated in previous responses, and maybe this was a bit to Socratic for the masses, the point is; they can not do what they did. The head of the UN security (a US citizen) got in trouble for doing exactly the above. Koffi had to give up his machine guns, so there's no way some low rent alleged coke dealer from Saudi Arabia can bring machine guns into the US and carry them around under the auspice of protecting his family member as some diplomatic dodge. As well a diplomat or their security must be able to pass a background check in the US, which being under indictment for coke dealing in another country would preclude this person from passing.

Short version: Politics gets a pass on just about any law there is.



Duff112 said:


> SOT-
> 
> Not that I wouldn't disagree with you on how f**ck'd up the gun laws are here in Taxachusetts but I think these are really two seperate issues running here...
> 
> ...


Again pay close attention to the how they do it and what the minimum requirements are. 
Must be part of their job function.
Must be in the US more than 90 days.
Must be able to and have passed a background check in the US.
CAN NOT be a private security company or commercial enterprise.
The two idiots in question were private security for a private company based out of Saudi Arabia.

as well the Sullivan law cases were already investigated and most guns under that (ala the UN dodge- registering the weapons to the UN and getting local permits in the names of US citizens working for UN security) methodology got enough people in trouble already.



Inspector said:


> Having been in a position of knowing I can assure you that DSS has allowed foreign nationals to carry all kinds of weapons in the U.S. to guard their dignitaries just as we have been allowed to carry weapons of all types in most foreign countries to protect our people. They expect, however, that those foreign security people not be too open about exposing those weapons to public view just as those countries expect the same of us. And yes, it does have something to do with diplomatic privilege and immunity. We are expected to extend same to them...especially those that get very up-tight about those issues like those in the suspected countries. All of the foreign security people I saw had kept those weapons out of sight behind the tinted glass in those limos and suvs. I remember one foreign officer working a security detail here (a personal friend) who said the only problem he ever ran into in the U.S. in carrying his handgun was in NYC where the Sullivan Law was an issue. They found some way around that however after the State Department had a pow-wow with the powers that be.


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## dh18 (Mar 4, 2003)

I don't think you can compare a foreign dignitary's protection detail to the UN, since the UN is not a sovereign country and is not afford any diplomatic protections based on just being the UN. 

I believe the answer to a foreign national carrying a weapon in a another country would be found in the Vienna accords, a status of forces agreement, or a visiting forces agreement.

Now regardless of any specific agreement, if these people are covered as "diplomats" under the state dept they are protected from prosecution in the US and as such would be immune from US fireams laws and couldn't be arrested for that. And then they would have the power to have diplomatic containers that would allow them to transport any weapons they chose in and out of the country without scrutiny.


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## Inspector (Nov 13, 2006)

Another matter is the fact, as I learned somewhere, diplomatic vehicles, when used by diplomats, are considered as foreign soil and hence not subject to search, seizure and/or inspection by police.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Again show me where it states that a forgien diplomat or his brother running a provate security company that is not a US company can carry machine guns.

And yes, the UN can be compared, why...because the diplomats and their security details that got in trouble were security details from their nation.

I saw that on Lethal Weapon II.



I'm really trying to get at the fact that some alleged drug dealer should not be hanging with the Gov and carrying machine guns when he is not a diplomat, is under indictment in his own country, and is just a glorified security guard.



Inspector said:


> Another matter is the fact, as I learned somewhere, diplomatic vehicles, when used by diplomats, are considered as foreign soil and hence not subject to search, seizure and/or inspection by police.


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Together We Can.

<ducks>


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## Dragnet (Aug 2, 2007)

frank said:


> Together We Can.
> 
> <ducks>


Together we can..... mingle with sponsors of Terror.


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## llama (Sep 9, 2007)

GTK (Good to Know?): The alleged drug connections of some contractor-type wildcat security bozo would queer their chances off being cleared by DS (DSS if you prefer). What they do/don't carry, and how, should be a technical issue for the state, not (Dept. of) State. On the other hand, between the Gulf guys and the Israelies, there is little real difference in arrogance and disdain for laws of others. My preference would be to hassle their 'goons' (a technical term I use only when appropriate) just on general principles.... (It may be the preceeding comment gets edited down in the interest of political deference?? Not too familiar with your set up here yet .... )


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## lawdog671 (Sep 20, 2005)

I don't see it being mentioned anywhere in the posts...but either the King or one of the princes of Jordan is a graduate of Deerfield Academy. They came here couple years ago for some type of reuinion there and brought with them Jordanian special forces. US Secret Service arranged and assisted in the protection detail. I also know MSP was there to assist with the escort. According to the Secret Service agent I spoke with, he told me that if anything happens, find a hole and hide trooper...lol...That leads me to believe there was some serious firepower there...but they did a good job of keeping it hidden..


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## COto50 (Sep 30, 2007)

If i have to pick someone for a firefight, them I am taking an air marshall. those guys are in the range all the time. when you have to qualify monthly to make sure you don't down the plane then they are ok for me.


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