# Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL dealer



## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

I live in Massachusetts, and am a Mass FID Card holder. I purchased a REmington 870 shotgun with a 2 round extender, giving the shotgun 6+1 rounds. I was told by the FFL that is dealing the transfer that it is considered a high-capacity shotgun, even though it is a pump action, and they cannot transfer the firearm to me.

I was under the impression that a shotgun is high-capacity if it is semi-automatic AND holds more than 5 rounds. After searching on the mass.gov website I found this statement:

"The term "large capacity weapon" shall be a secondary designation and shall apply to a weapon in addition to its primary designation as a firearm, rifle or shotgun and shall not include: (i) any weapon that was manufactured in or prior to the year 1899; (ii) any weapon that operates by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action"

Link - Session Laws: CHAPTER 180 of the Acts of 1998

Am I in the wrong here, or is the FFL making a mistake. I am rather worried since I have already purchased this firearm and the dealer is telling me that theres nothing they can do.


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Thanks wolfman.

Yeah I thought about that, however in 140-121 it also states under the definition of a high-capacity firearm:



> "Large capacity weapon", any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is *semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device*; (ii) that is *semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device*; (iii) that employs a rotating cylinder capable of accepting more than ten rounds of ammunition in a rifle or firearm and more than five shotgun shells in the case of a shotgun or firearm; or (iv) that is an assault weapon.


I do not see anything about a non-semiautomatic firearm with a high capacity feeding feeding device being classified as a high-capacity firearm.

If all else fails I can try to just take off the +2 extender, but I do not think they will allow me to do so. I ordered the shotgun online so they are holding it right now and I don't think they will let me take the extender off right in front of them. I also can not go to another FFL dealer since I purchased it online, and it was shipped to this particular FFL. Im really confused on what I should do.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Basically you're screwed once again by the nearly infinite and convoluted Massachusetts guns laws. Unfortunately this is why so many FFL's and awesome internet wholesalers won't ship ANYTHING to Massachusetts.
:skull:
I am so pissed off for you right now, cuz you've done nothing wrong. Of course how the hell should you have known to have the originator ship the 870 to your FFL in stock form, and the mag extender to your own address. 
Of course the other problem is the Mass FFL who can't figure out how to make it happen for licenced individuals who pass background checks.
I mean we can see a Mass dealer saying "sorry, this AR-15 has a bayonet lug, removable flash suppressor and telescoping stock." and then sending it back. But this makes me sad.
:sad_smile:


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

haha yeah wolfman it would be best to get an LTC, however I have another 2 years til im eligible (a long two years). Im going to try to make them seperate the extender (or let me do it) and give it to me seperately. I would definitely not possess the extender myself (I only got it anyway because this model was on sale and cost an extra 5$ more than the non-extended version). I was planning on just giving it to my brother, however he just turned 21 is awaiting for his LTC to arrive at the police department.

If I can manage to get the extender I will simply give it to my brother when he gets his license, however the timing is unlucky since he will not possess his LTC for another week or two (maybe more figuring the MA licensing procedure).

The problem is getting the FFL to allow me (or themselves) to take off the extender, as they seemed pretty harsh and non-lenient on this matter. It may be because I am just a 19-year old kid to them so they are tryin to boss me around, but they don't realize how inteligent I am.

I think they expected me to just say "oh well", since they were surprised when I started quoting the MA laws, and told them Id be back tomorrow with a printout. This whole thing just aggravates me, but hopefully when I have physical proof tomorrow they will transfer it to me.


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## jettsixx (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

If they wont transfer it to you will they ship it back to the seller.


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

@Wolfman - wow that really chilling, and just one more example of many why these asinine MA laws need to be changed!

@jett - yes but I really wanted to purchase and shoot my shotgun before I leave for sea term in 12 days. And I will also most likely have to pay shipping/restocking fees to ship it back to the dealer, but yes this is a last resort. I knew not to sign a damn thing until they are ready to hand the firearm over to me since as long as I don't sign the original shipper will take it back


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## 47turksinajar (Oct 24, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

have your brother go pick it up when he gets his ltc...

I'd rather be in Afghanistan then fucking Massachusetts Fucking liberals


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

I want to but how long are FFL dealers obligated to hold firearms for online purchases? Can they just ship it back to seller after a certain amount of days, and I get stuck with shipping/restocking fees?

I want to just have my brother pick it up, then we will take the extension off, he will keep the extension, and he can then transfer the factory 4+1 capacity shotgun to me legally. Howevr, Im worried about how long the FFL will hold the firearm for me before they have the right to do something with it like send it back.


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## Nuke_TRT (Feb 10, 2008)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

And if they wont do it for you, I will gladly take the shotgun off your hands until you get your LTC


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Personally, i wont buy a Remington product ever again after watching that cover up with their 700 rifle.

Remington 700: Defective Trigger Issue - Expedition Portal Forum


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

UPDATE

Thanks everyone who replied and helped me out, I have managed to get the firearm transferred to me.

It turns out that all of the workers there just thought the shotgun was illegal and was not referring to the large capacity feeding device AT ALL.

I talked to a couple of different workers behind the desk about my shotgun, and they just told me that ANY shotgun that holds more than 5 rounds is high-capacity. I promply took out the printout of section 121 and showed them the part about pumps being exempt. They had to call over every employee available to look at the law and make a group decision that pumps actually are exempt. People's stupidy in this world just amaze me sometimes.

They never mentioned a word of a high cap feeding device, nor did I, and I was out the door with my firearm.

Hoever, now my concern is whether I need to remove the 2 round extender or if it actually is legal for me to own with the shotgun. Ive been doing a lot of research and have talked to a lot of people about it and it seems to be a gray area. Any suggestions/input? I really do not want to get pulled over and be arrested for owning a large cap feeding device.

If it was as simple as just taking it off, I would just leave it off and let a friend hold onto it, but the problem is that I will them have to go and spend another $30 on the standard end cap and spring, which I dont want to do unless it is absolutely necessary. Thanks again for all the help


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Thank you a lot Wolfman, not just on this particular issue but also on previous threads when I had questions on whether or not an SKS rifle was MA FID compatable. Thanks to you I am now a proud owner of both a Norinco SKS carbine and an 870 shotgun. I can't express my appreciation enough, and if there is anyway I could possibly help you out let me know.

Before you even replied to my last post, I had already taken the extender off and given it to a close friend with an LTC to hold onto for a while. I figured its just not worth taking the risk, and your post reassured my decision. I have been looking at various websites to order a replacement mag cap/spring, and I fugured that (like you said) the extra $30-40 is nothing compared to the amount of money I will spend (or probably have already spent) on firearms and ammunition.

Do you happen to have any websites that sell the Remington magazine cap and/or spring for the default setup (4+1)? Thanks again I really appreciate all of your help.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

I was just wondering Petey... Are you gearing up for the inevitable zombie apocalypse ?


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*



niteowl1970 said:


> I was just wondering Petey... Are you gearing up for the inevitable zombie apocalypse ?


The FID version of the zombie apocalypse. When the horde comes, those low-capacity mags are going to run out awfully fast......:wink_smile:


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

I'm wondering what your opinions are on the Remington 700 trigger malfunction I posted about. The way that company has handled the issue is like the way the Catholic Church handled the pedophiles imo.


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Glad I steered clear of Remington and went with Savage.

Friggin' LOVE that damn rifle!


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

zombies seem to have lots of friends.

hang on to that extension :shades_smile:

the wolf spring is a nice, cheap upgrade


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*



7costanza said:


> I'm wondering what your opinions are on the Remington 700 trigger malfunction I posted about. The way that company has handled the issue is like the way the Catholic Church handled the pedophiles imo.


I heard about the problems a few years ago, and saw the MSNBC documentary recently. If I remember, the problem was if you pulled the trigger with the safety engaged then disengaged the safety, the gun may fire without a trigger pull? They talked about a kid who got killed when his gun discharged. I dont remember all the details, but they interviewed the guy who came up with the original design. He said that it was either a manufacturing or a modification flaw, but that the fix was easy and Remmington ignored him. Sounds like they were pretty scummy in covering it up, and not issuing a recall. They are still widely in service, so I couldn't tell the extent of the problem. Sounds like typical big company policy; if the cost of a lawsuit is less than the cost of a recall, just pay people off rather than fix the problem.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Definitely reeked of a hatchet job, it wasn't a problem unheard of in the gun community but not widespread enough to cause a panic. Every death seems to be attributable to a Rule 1 violation.


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## peteyb (Aug 1, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Thanks Wolfman. Yeah Ive realized that some people are confused about the MA laws, and they are not to blame even the slightest bit given the amount of absurd/confusing laws in MA.

I had one question for you though, I know that with the extender kit all I need is the follower, spring, coupler, and extension tube. However, when I buy the standard magazine cap and spring, do I need to buy an endcap and a magazine spring retainer?

Obviously I'd be able to re-use the same follower, but from what Ive found the standard magazine tube comes with an endcap and a spring retainer. Is this only on older models of the 870, or does every model with a standard tube need these two parts. Thanks again for the help.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*

Say what you will about the 700, but the 870 IMO is a tried-and-true design that has been shown over and over to perform just fine. The 870's on my job are nearly 20 years old, are beat to S$&t and work fine. That's why I bought the 18" cly bbl extended mag for $300 clams at Dicks this summer. 


Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Glad I steered clear of Remington and went with Savage.


Funny you mention Savage...I actually had to read a case in my Torts class last month where Savage was a defendant in a products liability suit...Gower v. Savage Arms, in case anyone cares: - Google Scholar


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

*Re: Just Purchased a Shotgun and was refused to have it transferred to me by FFL deal*



7costanza said:


> I'm wondering what your opinions are on the Remington 700 trigger malfunction I posted about. The way that company has handled the issue is like the way the Catholic Church handled the pedophiles imo.


I don't think there is an issue to handle, as Wolfman thoroughly pointed out. But I am biased, I love my 700 VTR .308 , and it hasn't decided to crank off a round on its own yet.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Ive got two Rem 700's , a 300 mag and a 30-06, have never had an unintentional disacharge though Ive been watching the mountain gun lately as Im concerned its gonna go postal when I leave for work


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Rem 700 safety issue?....Ho-hum


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## Sentinel (Sep 29, 2009)

I can't believe that everyone doesn't see the obvious logic of these Marxist gun laws here in the People's Republic of Assachusetts! We all know that the people who pose the biggest and most obvious threat to the safety of our citizens, nay national security itself, are those who actually take the classes and fill out the forms to attain FID and LTCs. 

Why I have lost count of how many law abiding citizens in possession of an FID that walked in and out of high security facilities mumbling in Farsi while trying to conceal their Anarchist's cookbook... Wake up people!

I can promise you I will move from Mass the DAY I retire.


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