# Applying to become a cop with a big ticket



## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

Hey guys I just took the civil service exam last week and honestly forgot I had a large speeding infraction in September 2020 110 mph on the highway , today I got my letter to Appeal the ticket for mid July, I forgot I even made this mistake back then and was curious if I lose my appeal and have to get this infraction put on my record am I screwed ? I have only one other speeding infraction from 2016 of February . Thanks


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

You forgot you were going twice the speed limit less than a year ago and got gigged for it while
pursuing a career in LE? I’m not buying that, but regardless I wouldn’t say you’re “screwed” but you will have to be able to explain that incident even if you win your appeal...just don’t lie. 

What were driving...or riding?


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## Truck (Apr 3, 2006)

You did not forget! So before you even start the job we have a truthfulness issue. Good news for you though, that will not be a problem, quality recruits are hard to come by these days. When you get hired that speeding charge will look like a jay walking ticket compared to your fellow class mates once reform is in full swing.


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

USAF286 said:


> You forgot you were going twice the speed limit less than a year ago and got gigged for it while
> pursuing a career in LE? I’m not buying that, but regardless I wouldn’t say you’re “screwed” but *you will have to be able to explain that incident even if you win your appeal...just don’t lie.*
> 
> What were driving...or riding?
> ...


This. My brother "forgot" about something that turned up in his background investigation. Guess what he does for work? (Hint: he's not a cop)


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

Truck said:


> You did not forget! So before you even start the job we have a truthfulness issue. Good news for you though, that will not be a problem, quality recruits are hard to come by these days. When you get hired that speeding charge will look like a jay walking ticket compared to your fellow class mates once reform is in full swing.


No honestly I did forget it was almost 10 months ago, I paid to appeal it the day after the pull over happened and never heard anything about it until today


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

USAF286 said:


> You forgot you were going twice the speed limit less than a year ago and got gigged for it while
> pursuing a career in LE? I’m not buying that, but regardless I wouldn’t say you’re “screwed” but you will have to be able to explain that incident even if you win your appeal...just don’t lie.
> 
> What were driving...or riding?
> ...


 I honestly did forget about it , and nothing fun lol a f150 I was heading to work I was super late and I was speeding I admit that , but I did forget all about the ticket in all seriousness


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

HistoryHound said:


> This. My brother "forgot" about something that turned up in his background investigation. Guess what he does for work? (Hint: he's not a cop)


No I understand that and I’m not trying to hide it from any police departments or will I hide it , I’m simply curious if this ticket will make me less likely to be hired because it’s a bad ticket . I have no intentions of lying to a police department


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

Truck said:


> You did not forget! So before you even start the job we have a truthfulness issue. Good news for you though, that will not be a problem, quality recruits are hard to come by these days. When you get hired that speeding charge will look like a jay walking ticket compared to your fellow class mates once reform is in full swing.


I’m honestly concerned about what’s to come as far as recruits. I can only speak for my agency and we have so far done an above average job at thoroughly conducting backgrounds and bypassing people. 

Me personally I rather deal with forces/staffing issues rather than start lowering the standard to a point where the only criteria to get on is literally be 21 and score above a 70 on an easy test. 


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

USAF286 said:


> I’m honestly concerned about what’s to come as far as recruits. I can only speak for my agency and we have so far done an above average job at thoroughly conducting backgrounds and bypassing people.
> 
> Me personally I rather deal with forces/staffing issues rather than start lowering the standard to a point where the only criteria to get on is literally be 21 and score above a 70 on an easy test.
> 
> ...


I get your point but I’m not a total dead beat or an awful worker just because I have a speeding ticket


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

USAF286 said:


> I’m honestly concerned about what’s to come as far as recruits. I can only speak for my agency and we have so far done an above average job at thoroughly conducting backgrounds and bypassing people.
> 
> Me personally I rather deal with forces/staffing issues rather than start lowering the standard to a point where the only criteria to get on is literally be 21 and score above a 70 on an easy test.
> 
> ...


I find it odd all the old cops complain about the new generation applying to be cops and how they need higher standards and so on but yet none of these old guys don’t have a degree and went to an academy 30 years ago and wasn’t half of what it is today , I don’t have a college degree I’m in a skilled labor union but still just something I wanted to point out , I have a speeding ticket and regardless of everyone’s excellent detective skills on a forum , I did forget about it because I don’t sit around wondering about one morning I drove like an ass to work it happens and most of you guys have probably done it yourselves .


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

davem978 said:


> I get your point but I’m not a total dead beat or an awful worker just because I have a speeding ticket


I wasn’t targeting you at all, that was just a general statement. I don’t think you’ll have an issue at all as long as your forthcoming with everything. 


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

USAF286 said:


> I wasn’t targeting you at all, that was just a general statement. I don’t think you’ll have an issue at all as long as your forthcoming with everything.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I understand but I don’t get why everyone here thinks policing is fucked because of the new guys trying to become cops , sure there’s plenty of sissy type guys applying but there’s still good guys out there , I work commercial construction which isn’t all that pleasant but it pays amazing and the benefits are insane but I’m willing to leave it and take a pay cut because I’ve always wanted to be a police officer and unfortunately I do have a few minor things on paper that make me look less desirable than perfect little college kid but I think I’d be a better cop than most of them


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

davem978 said:


> I understand but I don’t get why everyone here thinks policing is fucked because of the new guys trying to become cops , sure there’s plenty of sissy type guys applying but there’s still good guys out there , I work commercial construction which isn’t all that pleasant but it pays amazing and the benefits are insane but I’m willing to leave it and take a pay cut because I’ve always wanted to be a police officer and unfortunately I do have a few minor things on paper that make me look less desirable than perfect little college kid but I think I’d be a better cop than most of them


YOU think. We know.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> YOU think. We know.


Look all I wanted to know was does this ticket disqualify me or make my chances of becoming a police officer slim to none , I’m not trying to be disrespectful or rude by any means. I just took my exam and I was really looking forward to the next chapter in this but now I don’t know if that will even happen with a ticket looming over me this big


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

davem978 said:


> I understand but I don’t get why everyone here thinks policing is fucked because of the new guys trying to become cops , sure there’s plenty of sissy type guys applying but there’s still good guys out there , I work commercial construction which isn’t all that pleasant but it pays amazing and the benefits are insane but I’m willing to leave it and take a pay cut because I’ve always wanted to be a police officer and unfortunately I do have a few minor things on paper that make me look less desirable than perfect little college kid but I think I’d be a better cop than most of them


This isn’t like hearing your grandfather saying “back in the day this is what would of happened and new guys today just don’t get it.” This is truly unprecedented and cops are leaving/retiring from departments in record numbers due to being constantly vilified due to BLM, police reform and main stream media etc. They are in fear of doing their jobs with the best of intentions and still being dragged over the coals for something out of their control and their administration not having their back. 

This is causing potentially great candidates that would make excellent police officers to rethink their future and either take up a trade, take the local fire test or go to the federal level. Police departments will STILL need to be staffed and manned at a certain level and will be FORCED to ease up on how strict they are with letting certain problems to overlook, and yes, would end up hiring a lower quality officer than in years past. 

I’m not saying all future police officers are not going to be just as good or even better than the current ones, but I’m just trying to give you the POV from a current one. 


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

USAF286 said:


> This isn’t like hearing your grandfather saying “back in the day this is what would of happened and new guys today just don’t get it.” This is truly unprecedented and cops are leaving/retiring from departments in record numbers due to being constantly vilified due to BLM, police reform and main stream media etc. They are in fear of doing their jobs with the best of intentions and still being dragged over the coals for something out of their control and their administration not having their back.
> 
> This is causing potentially great candidates that would make excellent police officers to rethink their future and either take up a trade, take the local fire test or go to the federal level. Police departments will STILL need to be staffed and manned at a certain level and will be FORCED to ease up on how strict they are with letting certain problems to overlook, and yes, would end up hiring a lower quality officer than in years past.
> 
> ...


Well I completely agree that police are getting shafted by almost everyone and it’s terrible I honestly sympathize with you guys for that and have always looked up to you guys and your profession, I made a couple dumb mistakes at 18 and now I have this ticket to worry about and I’m just curious if anyone can tell me if I have any hope of still being hired if the clerk magistrate doesn’t drop it


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

They weren’t mistakes. You said you’ve wanted to be a cop for a long Time, yet you keep breaking the law. That makes you a poor candidate.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> They weren’t mistakes. You said you’ve wanted to be a cop for a long Time, yet you keep breaking the law. That makes you a poor candidate.


I got in trouble once for a misdemeanor at 18 and now I have a speeding ticket , that’s it and I’m 25 , so I don’t think I’d consider myself a life ling criminal
Or bad person . But thank you for the out standing service you probably provide daily to people who have to deal with you


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

davem978 said:


> I got in trouble once for a misdemeanor at 18 and now I have a speeding ticket , that’s it and I’m 25 , so I don’t think I’d consider myself a life ling criminal
> Or bad person . But thank you for the out standing service you probably provide daily to people who have to deal with you


I'm not a cop, but I've been around them my entire life. Take the ball busting with a grain of salt. What you're getting here is nothing compared to what you'll get from politicians and the general public.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

HistoryHound said:


> I'm not a cop, but I've been around them my entire life. Take the ball busting with a grain of salt. What you're getting here is nothing compared to what you'll get from politicians and the general public.


I understand ball busting I deal with it plenty in my trade but I’m just simply asking a question , even the biggest wanna be tough guys can answer a question . Being a dick on a forum
Doesn’t impress anyone that’s all


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

davem978 said:


> I understand but I don’t get why everyone here thinks policing is fucked because of the new guys trying to become cops , sure there’s plenty of sissy type guys applying but there’s still good guys out there , I work commercial construction which isn’t all that pleasant but it pays amazing and the benefits are insane but I’m willing to leave it and take a pay cut because I’ve always wanted to be a police officer and unfortunately I do have a few minor things on paper that make me look less desirable than perfect little college kid but I think I’d be a better cop than most of them


Honestly have you watched the news the last year or so ? Run and run fast , stay where you are trust me . You’ll be better off.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

Treehouse413 said:


> Honestly have you watched the news the last year or so ? Run and run fast , stay where you are trust me . You’ll be better off.


I understand this job isn’t remotely what it used to be and everything you do will have 3 people sitting there recording it on there phones and yelling at you but I have zero interest in my current career , I have always wanted to be a police officer ( yes I made a mistake when I was 18) but regardless I just want to know if this 100 mph speeding ticket if I can’t get it appealed will screw me on being hired since it only happened like 10 months ago.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

All depends on the agency. I know an officer from a large city PD that got rejected last MSP class for a few equipment violations 


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

j809 said:


> All depends on the agency. I know an officer from a large city PD that got rejected last MSP class for a few equipment violations
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thank you for your honesty man I appreciate it, now if I get the ticket dropped when I appeal will they still be able to see that I got this ticket or woll
It just kind of vanish, I never understood that part of it


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

davem978 said:


> I understand ball busting I deal with it plenty in my trade but I’m just simply asking a question , even the biggest wanna be tough guys can answer a question . Being a dick on a forum
> Doesn’t impress anyone that’s all


Lighten up Francis................
Your ticket won't matter much as long as you're honest about that and anything else. You've gone way beyond asking a simple question. You've made a few generalizations and seemingly ignored the answers to make a couple of snide remarks. Good luck.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

mpd61 said:


> Lighten up Francis................
> Your ticket won't matter much as long as you're honest about that and anything else. You've gone way beyond asking a simple question. You've made a few generalizations and seemingly ignored the answers to make a couple of snide remarks. Good luck.


Thank you for the reply it’s appreciated, I didn’t want to make this an argument I just wanted peoples honest answers not being told im a “bad candidate” from a internet warrior that’s all but again thank you


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

Just go to the appeal say you made a huge mistake by driving way too fast and live with the consequences. End of issue. Then if you are considered for a position….don’t forget to tell the background investigator about it. (PS-They will know more about you than you think.) I have done many background checks and I would have questions about what you describe as “a few minor things on paper”. Good luck with the process and understand that it can take a long time.


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## Foxy85 (Mar 29, 2006)

davem978 said:


> No honestly I did forget it was almost 10 months ago, I paid to appeal it the day after the *pull over* happened and never heard anything about it until today


I’m surprised you didn’t get gigged with a Neg Op charge at that speed.

Anyway, don’t sweat it, I forget my “pull overs” too. They usually don’t notice.


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## DPH1992 (Mar 29, 2019)

110 isn’t a felony speed, but it’s fast enough and more importantly recent enough to potentially give you a problem. Depends who’s doing your background.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

trueblue said:


> Just go to the appeal say you made a huge mistake by driving way too fast and live with the consequences. End of issue. Then if you are considered for a position….don’t forget to tell the background investigator about it. (PS-They will know more about you than you think.) I have done many background checks and I would have questions about what you describe as “a few minor things on paper”. Good luck with the process and understand that it can take a long time.


Thank you for the advice , if you’ve had driving infractions dismissed by a clerk magistrate will the hiring department know that or are those entirely erased ? I can’t seem to find an answer to that


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

Foxy85 said:


> I’m surprised you didn’t get gigged with a Neg Op charge at that speed.
> 
> Anyway, don’t sweat it, I forget my “pull overs” too. They usually don’t notice.
> 
> View attachment 10611


Well the statie said the said that he could of arrested me for it , but I was very apologetic for it because I felt pretty dumb for doing what it in the first place and he seemed to be a nice guy and could tell I wasn’t a jerk so he cut me some slack , not saying I deserved the slack but he was nice enough to do so


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

DPH1992 said:


> 110 isn’t a felony speed, but it’s fast enough and more importantly recent enough to potentially give you a problem. Depends who’s doing your background.


Thank you very much as usual man , I’m thinking this might be what screws me in the end here but I guess we’ll have to see how it goes


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

davem978 said:


> I honestly did forget about it , and nothing fun lol a f150 I was heading to work I was super late and I was speeding I admit that.


We need good people in our profession. Hopefully you're one of them and you get the job you want. That being said, check out the article here.









Off-Duty Memphis Officer Driving 114 mph Before Fatal Crash


Police said five seconds before the crash Marshall was traveling 114 mph. The speed limit on the road is 45 mph.




www.policemag.com





You weren't just "speeding," you were endangering other people's lives who were on the road with you, not to mention your own life, while driving over 100mph. That equates to poor decision making, which may or may not prevent you from obtaining the job you want. It also depends on whether or not the department you're applying for wants you bad enough. I realize you're not applying for my department but if you were, you would be told to wait about a year to ensure you don't do this type of thing again.

Once you get the job, you'll be trained at some type of EVOC track where you'll obtain the skills to be better and safer at driving at 100mph. Until then, I would recommend you don't do that anymore.

Good luck.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

davem978 said:


> I understand ball busting I deal with it plenty in my trade but I’m just simply asking a question , even the biggest wanna be tough guys can answer a question . Being a dick on a forum
> Doesn’t impress anyone that’s all


Hey shitbird. Fuck off. I’ve paid the dues required to be here. You haven’t done a fucking thing but whine.
Don‘t like it? Fuck off outta here.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

LA Copper said:


> We need good people in our profession. Hopefully you're one of them and you get the job you want. That being said, check out the article here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate the advice and i agree it was not a smart thing to do , luckily I was on an empty road I worked very early back then but I understand your point


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> Hey shitbird. Fuck off. I’ve paid the dues required to be here. You haven’t done a fucking thing but whine.
> Don‘t like it? Fuck off outta here.


You’ve paid the dues required to be where ? On an Internet forum ? Lmao my bad . It’s always the fat guy who’s a dick online . Thanks for the advice haha


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

davem978 said:


> Thank you for the advice , if you’ve had driving infractions dismissed by a clerk magistrate will the hiring department know that or are those entirely erased ? I can’t seem to find an answer to that


See this makes me think you're not paying attention. This question has been answered by a few people here.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

HistoryHound said:


> See this makes me think you're not paying attention. This question has been answered by a few people here.


No I’m listening honestly but I wasn’t sure if dismissed infractions are still able to be seen by them , other than that I think I get it


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## Foxy85 (Mar 29, 2006)

davem978 said:


> I appreciate the advice and i agree it was not a smart thing to do ,* luckily I was on an empty road *I worked very early back then but I understand your point


Still trying to defend it. Good luck sir. 😆


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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

I would change your tune about saying “I forgot”. You don’t just forget getting pulled over doing 110 MPH. I get that you said it was 10 months ago.

If you are pursuing a profession in LE, every encounter with police pre-hire and even during the process is something you need to keenly remember.

Good luck.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

AB7 said:


> I would change your tune about saying “I forgot”. You don’t just forget getting pulled over doing 110 MPH. I get that you said it was 10 months ago.
> 
> If you are pursuing a profession in LE, every encounter with police pre-hire and even during the process is something you need to keenly remember.
> 
> Good luck.


Thank you for the advice , it’s not that I literally forgot it happened but when the notice came for my appeal yesterday i knew what it was but before getting the appeal notice I guess it basically slipped my mine if that makes sense , I don’t know why people think I’d lie here about that ? This isn’t necessarily an interview or something that affects my hiring process . None the less I understand what I did was wrong and that it’s not okay to do


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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

davem978 said:


> Thank you for the advice , it’s not that I literally forgot it happened but when the notice came for my appeal yesterday i knew what it was but before getting the appeal notice I guess it basically slipped my mine if that makes sense , I don’t know why people think I’d lie here about that ? This isn’t necessarily an interview or something that affects my hiring process . None the less I understand what I did was wrong and that it’s not okay to do


Taken from your opening statement.
“Hey guys I just took the civil service exam last week and honestly *forgot* I had a large speeding infraction in September 2020 110 mph on the highway , today I got my letter to Appeal the ticket for mid July, I forgot I even made this mistake back then and was curious if I lose my appeal and have to get this infraction put on my record am I screwed ? I have only one other speeding infraction from 2016 of February . Thanks”

Taken from your recent post. “Thank you for the advice , *it’s not that I literally forgot* it happened but when the notice came for my appeal yesterday i knew what it was but before getting the appeal notice I guess it basically slipped my mine if that makes sense , *I don’t know why people think I’d lie here about that* ?”

We aren’t interviewing or investigating you. But you should be careful how you word things.You at least have the common sense to not start arguing with people in a forum online. Especially when you are at least partially being trolled.

With that said, you need to understand that your underlying issue isn’t a ticket that you’re fighting. It’s explaining why so recently after you were essentially “operating to endanger” do you deserve to be in a position of public trust, driving a town owned and insured vehicle to emergency situations, where you are entrusted with the duties that may include depriving people’s liberty from them.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

AB7 said:


> Taken from your opening statement.
> “Hey guys I just took the civil service exam last week and honestly *forgot* I had a large speeding infraction in September 2020 110 mph on the highway , today I got my letter to Appeal the ticket for mid July, I forgot I even made this mistake back then and was curious if I lose my appeal and have to get this infraction put on my record am I screwed ? I have only one other speeding infraction from 2016 of February . Thanks”
> 
> Taken from your recent post. “Thank you for the advice , *it’s not that I literally forgot* it happened but when the notice came for my appeal yesterday i knew what it was but before getting the appeal notice I guess it basically slipped my mine if that makes sense , *I don’t know why people think I’d lie here about that* ?”
> ...


Your absolutely right and to answer the last part of your message , I don’t know. That’s going to be a very tough one to answer . Truthful answer is because I realize as an officer you can’t do things like that and need to be a mature and responsible person but will they believe me and over look this infraction is another issue I suppose .


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## KPD54 (Oct 30, 2020)

Alright, everyone’s had their fun. Now to answer your question. At least In maine, most speeding tickets/misdemeanors aren’t going to disqualify you. Of course the misdemeanor can’t include violence, but a simple trespassing ticket or whatever else won’t kill you. For the speeding, I was in your boat when I got hired a few years back. I had a ticket of 103 in a 65, I explained that I was an idiotic 17 year old on the northern highway, and I hadn’t done anything like that since. That being said, It CAN ONLY BE ONE. If you are a repeat offender, it’s more than likely that they might see you as a liability. Hope that helps

also, after reading this whole thing, I’d suggest you drop the argumentative side of things. Oral boards might try and provoke you into a defense mode, and if that happens, it’s game over.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

KPD54 said:


> Alright, everyone’s had their fun. Now to answer your question. At least In maine, most speeding tickets/misdemeanors aren’t going to disqualify you. Of course the misdemeanor can’t include violence, but a simple trespassing ticket or whatever else won’t kill you. For the speeding, I was in your boat when I got hired a few years back. I had a ticket of 103 in a 65, I explained that I was an idiotic 17 year old on the northern highway, and I hadn’t done anything like that since. That being said, It CAN ONLY BE ONE. If you are a repeat offender, it’s more than likely that they might see you as a liability. Hope that helps
> 
> also, after reading this whole thing, I’d suggest you drop the argumentative side of things. Oral boards might try and provoke you into a defense mode, and if that happens, it’s game over.


Honestly man thank you for the answer I appreciate it , my other ticket is from 2016 and it wasn’t anything drastic like this , I called my insurance and they couldn’t find any Info on the 2016 ticket but I remember it only being like 15 mph over the limit or something but we’ll see . I appreciate the help


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

KPD54 said:


> Alright, everyone’s had their fun. Now to answer your question. At least In maine, most speeding tickets/misdemeanors aren’t going to disqualify you. Of course the misdemeanor can’t include violence, but a simple trespassing ticket or whatever else won’t kill you. For the speeding, I was in your boat when I got hired a few years back. I had a ticket of 103 in a 65, I explained that I was an idiotic 17 year old on the northern highway, and I hadn’t done anything like that since. That being said, It CAN ONLY BE ONE. If you are a repeat offender, it’s more than likely that they might see you as a liability. Hope that helps
> 
> also, after reading this whole thing, I’d suggest you drop the argumentative side of things. Oral boards might try and provoke you into a defense mode, and if that happens, it’s game over.


And your right about the argumentative issue , I’m not usually one to go back and forth with people but I don’t like being told I’m a “bad candidate “ or be deemed unworthy because I was a dipshit at 18 and now have a ticket from almost a year ago, but again I appreciate your answer sir


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

davem978 said:


> You’ve paid the dues required to be where ? On an Internet forum ? Lmao my bad . It’s always the fat guy who’s a dick online . Thanks for the advice haha


IP address saved. Info noted. Good luck sunshine. It won’t go well for you…ever.


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> IP address saved. Info noted. Good luck sunshine. It won’t go well for you…ever.


So your going to destroy my chances of getting a career because you wanted to be rude to me first ? Real mature


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

CCCSD said:


> IP address saved. Info noted. Good luck sunshine. It won’t go well for you…ever.


I’m glad a retired CA cop wants to make the few guys who are even applying for this guy these days not be able too in a state he never worked for lol , what a joke . Good luck with that IP Address


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

Job*


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

The humility exhibited by this "candidate" is in the basement. Why are we wasting our time?


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## davem978 (May 14, 2021)

mpd61 said:


> The humility exhibited by this "candidate" is in the basement. Why are we wasting our time?


I asked a question that’s it , I wasn’t trying to start an argument with a guy who was a cop across the country . Anyone here who answered my question I was actually very nice and respectful too. It works both ways just like in any other aspect of life . Treat people how you want to be treated , i thought we were all adults


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## USAF286 (May 20, 2011)

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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Question asked and answered a couple dozen times over now. This thread is done.


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