# THE TRUTH ABOUT WAR



## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

By RALPH PETERS 

IN San Diego on Tuesday, I had the privilege of sitting beside Lt.-Gen. Jim Mattis, a Marine who knows how to fight. We were on a panel discussing future war. And Gen. Mattis, a Marine to the marrow of his bones, spoke honestly about the thrill of combat. 

Mattis has commanded at every level. In Desert Storm, he led a battalion. In Afghanistan and then in Iraq, he led with inspiration and courage. Everyone on our panel had opinions about war, but that no-nonsense Marine knew more about it than the rest of us combined. 

In the course of a blunt discussion of how our military has to prepare for future fights, the general spoke with a frankness that won the hearts of the uniformed members of the audience. Instead of trotting out politically correct clichés, Mattis told the truth: 

"You go into Afghanistan, you got guys who slap women around for five years because they didn't wear a veil . . . it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." 

The language wasn't elegant. But we don't need prissy military leaders. We need generals who talk straight and shoot straight, men who inspire. And I guarantee you that any real Marine or soldier would follow Gen. Mattis. 

What was the media's reaction? A B-team news crew saw a chance to grab a headline at the military's expense (surprise, surprise). Lifting the general's remarks out of context, the media hyenas played it as if they were shocked to learn that people die in war. 

Combat veterans are supposed to be tormented souls, you understand. Those who fight our wars are supposed to return home irreparably damaged. 

HOLLYWOOD'S ideal of a Marine is the retired co lonel in the film "American Beauty," who turns out to be a repressed homosexual and a murderer. Veterans are sup- posed to writhe on their beds all night, covered in sweat, unable to escape their nightmares. 

War does scar some men. Most vets, though, just get on with their lives — scratch a veteran looking for pity and more often than not you'll find a supply clerk who never got near a battlefield. And some who serve — the soldiers and Marines who win our wars — run to the sound of the guns, anxious to close with the enemy and kill him. They may not love war itself, but they find combat magnetic and exhilarating. They like to fight. 

That's fine in movies featuring Brad Pitt as a mythical Greek hero. But God forbid that a modern-day Marine should admit that he loves his work. 

Well, Marines and soldiers don't serve full careers because they hate their jobs. In peace or war, the military experience is incredibly rich and rewarding. And sometimes dangerous. Goes with the territory. But for most of the young infantrymen in Iraq, their combat experience will remain the highpoint of their lives. Nothing afterward will be as intense or exciting. And they will never make closer friends than they did in their rifle squad. 

Gen. Mattis may have been unusual in his honesty, but he certainly isn't unusual in our history. We picture Robert E. Lee as a saintly father figure, but Lee remarked that it's good that war is so terrible, since otherwise men would grow to love it too much. He was speaking of himself. Andy Jackson certainly loved a fight, and Stonewall Jackson never shied from one. Sherman and Grant only found themselves in war. 

WE lionize those who em braced war in the past, but condemn those who defend us in the present. George S. Patton was far blunter than Jim Mattis — but Patton lived in the days before the media was omnipresent and biased against our military. 

The hypocrisy is stunning. Gen. Mattis told the truth about a fundamental human activity — war — and was treated as though he had dropped a nuclear weapon on an orphanage. Yet when some bozo on a talk show confesses to an addiction or a perversion in front of millions of viewers, he's lionized as "courageous" for speaking out. 

Sorry. It's men like Jim Mattis who are courageous. The rest of us barely glimpse the meaning of the word. 

We've come to a sad state when a Marine who has risked his life repeatedly to keep our country safe can't speak his mind, while any professor who wants to blame America for 9/11 is defended by legions of free-speech advocates. If a man like Mattis hasn't earned the right to say what he really believes, who has? 

Had Gen. Mattis collapsed in tears and begged for pity for the torments war inflicted on him, the media would have adored him. Instead, he spoke as Marines and soldiers do in the headquarters tent or the barracks, on the battlefield or among comrades. And young journalists who never faced anything more dangerous than a drunken night in Tijuana tried to create a scandal. 

FORTUNATELY, Lt.-Gen. Mattis has three big things going for him: The respect of those who serve; the Marine Corps, which won't abandon a valiant fighter to please self-righteous pundits whose only battle is with their waistlines; and the fact that we're at war. We need more men like Mattis, not fewer. The public needs to hear the truth about war, not just the crybaby nonsense of those who never deigned to serve our country. 

In my own far humbler career, the leaders I admired were those who had the killer instinct. The soldiers knew who they were. We would have followed them anywhere. They weren't slick Pentagon staffers anxious to go to work for defense contractors. They were the men who lived and breathed the warrior's life. 

Table manners don't win wars. Winning our nation's battles demands disciplined ferocity, raw physical courage — and integrity. Jim Mattis has those qualities in spades. 

Semper fi, General. 

Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad: Postmodern War and Peace."


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

disgraceful....


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

JeepinWeezle";p="56191 said:


> disgraceful....


What is disgraceful? The article or the media?


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## Channy1984 (Jul 24, 2004)

A Marine admits he likes to kill radical taliban and other scum...


They deserve it... WHO CARES!!!!!! 8)


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

"it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." 

That is disgraceful...think about what he is saying. At certain times unfortunately it is necessary but, No one should ever ENJOY killing another human being.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Terrorists shitbirds are not human beings, they count all day. Whack Em. :twisted:


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

JeepinWeezle";p="56227 said:


> "it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."
> 
> That is disgraceful...think about what he is saying. At certain times unfortunately it is necessary but, No one should ever ENJOY killing another human being.


*Floater*.... If you had any experience such as the Colonels' you'd know he was dead on... His comments are not disgraceful, yours are... Those "human beings" over there are vermin, not people. No I'm not refering to the average Iraqi Joe six pack. You might want to think over making comments about a warrior who's willing to step up while you leave a trail of piss as you run away....


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

Deuce";p="56240 said:


> JeepinWeezle";p="56227 said:
> 
> 
> > "it's a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them."
> ...


haha sorry...disagree with both of you. I agree that killing is necessary in certain situations. But it should NEVER be FUN!

It scares me that someone that is or wants to be a police officer would ever think that killing can be FUN!


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## HousingCop (May 14, 2004)

My newest American HERO. That's right, HERO. Here's a guy who has put his life on the line many times for our counrty and this is the thanks he gets from some members of this BB? Pathetic.

While the comment may seem distateful to some, if you don't like it, renounce your citizenship and move to Canada. Nobody is stopping you. As I do recall, we have freedom of speech here.


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

HousingCop";p="56259 said:


> As I do recall, we have freedom of speech here.


exactly so why do i have to move it canada again?


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## Irishpride (May 5, 2002)

Jeep,

Although I don't think you need to move to Canada I do think you're choice of words is improper and disrespectful to this decorated combat Marine. You see to disgrace is synonymous with dishonor, and I am hard pressed to believe for one second that this Lt-Gen. lacks honor. He may have some battle scars and psychologically de-humanized his enemies but I feel that those are solid attributes for a man whose job it is to lead others into combat. His comments may have come off as abrasive , insensitive, or un-PC, but I personally would prefer our military not concern itself with such BS anyway (leave that crap to politicians). This General enjoys his job and there is nothing wrong with that.

int: &lt;&lt;&lt; this one's for the Lt-Gen. Keep up the good work sir.


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## billj (Aug 28, 2004)

I'd love to serve under a commander like that, rather than some Pentagon pussy who has been in the field for less than 10 minutes.


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

I am still sticking by my words....

I am not saying the military is discgraceful, I am not even saying that man is, I am saying what he said at the time was discgraceful. Again I will repeat, No one should ENJOY killing. Step back and think about it for a minute.

Anyone here agree? or do you all beleive that one should enjoy killing another human being.


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## GARDA (Dec 30, 2003)

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

- Col. Nathan R. Jessup, U.S.M.C (A Few Good Men, 1992)

Spoken with the eloquent poignancy of another true Warrior/Poet/Patriot!

As far as his choice of using the word "FUN" to describe killing those animals... let's face it...You can't spell FUN-eral without starting with a little "FUN". :lol: 

What's next, the suggestion of a war crimes tribunal to charge him with murder? That would be like trying to hand-out speeding tickets at the Daytona 500! 

Let the man do, and say, what he does without the unqualified scrutiny.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

I posted this because I thought it was the right thing to do. I believe what the Lt. Gen. said is fine. He's a hardened military man and that is his sense of what needs to be done. 

Jeep - Although you are entitled to your opinion, step back from this thread for a second and read what everyone else is saying. You are the only one that disagrees...why is that?

No one here is saying that "killing is fun", those are his words, so do not say that because we think he is a good man that we shouldn't be in LE. I'm done.


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

kttref";p="56299 said:


> I posted this because I thought it was the right thing to do. I believe what the Lt. Gen. said is fine. He's a hardened military man and that is his sense of what needs to be done.
> 
> Jeep - Although you are entitled to your opinion, step back from this thread for a second and read what everyone else is saying. You are the only one that disagrees...why is that?
> 
> No one here is saying that "killing is fun", those are his words, so do not say that because we think he is a good man that we shouldn't be in LE. I'm done.


I am disagreeing because i beleive what he said was wrong!

You can think he is a good man...but there are some here that agreed that "killing is fun"


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2005)

I agree w/ what the LTG said. I can also see what the problem is for citizens whose only contact w/ the military is the History Channel. Anyone who has served has heard and spoken like this. Just like cops say things among themselves, that cannot be said near the civi or camera. The little guys should be discreet. The LTG, who has years of combat experience and must inspire troops should be given a pass. He has proven his worth to every American. He is a special breed. One that the "elite" media can't stand. The country needs a Gunny Highway.


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## cj3441 (Oct 14, 2004)

GARDA";p="56287 said:


> "Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."
> 
> - Col. Nathan R. Jessup, U.S.M.C (A Few Good Men, 1992)
> 
> ...


GARDA,

Tell me that you wrote that quote from memory! As far as the Terrorists go they all want to meet Allah anyway so the General is doing them a favor by expediting the meeting, seems like a win/win scenario to me.


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## JeepinWeezle (Dec 9, 2004)

cj3441";p="56332 said:


> GARDA,
> 
> Tell me that you wrote that quote from memory! As far as the Terrorists go they all want to meet Allah anyway so the General is doing them a favor by expediting the meeting, seems like a win/win scenario to me.


If you read, i said that sometimes unfortunately it is necessary, but never should be FUN. That is the key word FUN! Some serial murderers see killing as fun, we seem to frown on that and see something "wrong" with them.

And no this is not different....

Killing is killing is killing is killing
Fun is fun is fun is fun
All the same...just for different reasons

Yes as stated before...i know that war is war and people get killed yes, like i said its a necessary evil, but it should not be fun.

I'm done because i keep repeating myself


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

It is different.. Killing innocent people is horrible. However, if you had any experience in Combat Arms you'd realize that killing vermin (combatants/terrorists) is fun... It's obviously too hard to explain to someone like you since you're probably the type that went (goes) to some rotten liberal college and protests and hugs trees...

There I said it, shooting shitbirds is a hoot. You're wrong, you should thank God there are people out there willing to do what you don't have the stomach to do.. Now go hand out needles to the junkies....


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## GARDA (Dec 30, 2003)

cj3441";p="56332 said:


> ,
> GARDA,
> 
> Tell me that you wrote that quote from memory! As far as the Terrorists go they all want to meet Allah anyway so the General is doing them a favor by expediting the meeting, seems like a win/win scenario to me.


Sorry cj3441, I didn't want to do the quote any injustice...so a little help from www.moviequotes.com was in order this time. :sh:

"Here's to Lt. Gen. Mattis, Col. Jessup, and all those like 'em!"
:t: Semper Fi


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## HousingCop (May 14, 2004)

Jeep,

You are sounding alot like the liberal left on this. I suppose you could call this Lt. General cold, callous, calculated &amp; somewhat un-PC with his choice of words. Then, you would be in the company of Alec, Whoopi, Ben, &amp; Fatso Moore on this subject. 

Do you wear a black robe by chance? You sound alot like these ultra liberal judges who are extending the Bill Of Rights to these scum who have directly or indirectly through knowledge or support, helped kill 3,000 American lives on a single day. 

So this guy ruffles a few feathers with his wording on the matter. Who cares other than the looney left? The lamestream media is the one picking up the ball on this and carrying it to dizzying heights. The average American probably agrees with the Generals assesment of the situation in Afghanistan. 

Better to fight them over there on our terms than on Main St. USA I say.


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## EOD1 (Mar 11, 2004)

hey CJ, i can say it from memory! 

housing cop, if u tell some1 to renounce their citizenship, don't tell them to move to canada... tell them to move to Iraq or afganistan or better yet Mogadishu.

I am sorry but I disagree with what some of u say when u say that these radical insurgents are not human. I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH WHAT THE GEN SAID, I COMPLETELY SUPPORT AND AGREE WITH HIM. However the mindset that hey are sub human needs to be changed avoided and not stated. we are doing good things over here. The reason why the terrorist's and insurgents do the things they do because they look at us as subhuman and infidels. I don't want my way of thinking or viewing them or the job i do related to their screwed up back ass-wards primative ways of thinking. I want no corrilation or similarities to them what so ever! bottom line is that they ARE humans.... and they are fun to kill. Actually i wouldn't say fun- but hey it passes the time!


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## Channy1984 (Jul 24, 2004)

War involves killing your opponent till their side surrenders. In order to cope with it sometimes, people like this guy have to make the best of it and apparanly he said something that isn't really anything new nor shocking. He probably doesn't truly like killing people, but that's his job. Battlefield scenarios are not like policing where deadly force is a last resort, it's always used first hand because your enemy will try to kill you first unless it's not applicable on the mission you are on. And since these radical islam wankers are devoted to running into your tent with C4 strapped to their chest, there really is no choice but to destroy them before they do the same to you or all of us.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Give the Lt.Gen. another medal and let him lead on!!


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## EOD1 (Mar 11, 2004)

yeah know i could go on &amp; on about this &amp; would love to, however these percocets are zapping my ability to type and think &amp; crap. so i will post this to keep this topic alive and respond to it when I am not stoned.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

USMCMP5811";p="56427 said:


> I think this says it all, The Rifleman's Creed.
> 
> This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than the enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will. My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, or the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit.
> 
> ...


I've always had a question apart keeping the rifle clean like you are clean...what do you do with your rifle when you shower? Do you take it with you? I would assume so, but that can't be great for the rifle.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

USMCMP5811";p="56542 said:


> kttref,
> 
> Why do you think we give it a girls name? After we give it a shower, we blow dry it, and lightly coat it in CLP. :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Actualy, when it's shower time we have a buddy baby sit our weapons system untill we're out of the shower and then we baby sit for them so they can shower up.


Hahah fair enough. That's a good system, nothing like having your buddy watch your girl for you. Watch out, he may steal her!


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

Hahah, soooo off topic, but I can think of a few people my husband works with that would just GIVE you their wives! My husband's keeping me though (he may not know it yet) :twisted:


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

I'm certain that after Pearl Harbor most marines (and soldiers/sailors/airmen/coasties/etc) enjoyed dispatching their Japanese opponents (enemy) Later, the same applied to our countrymen facing German/Italian/Vichy French (Yes! FROGS!!!)

It is basic human psychology when placed into a survival situation to feel some degree of relief and dare I say it, elation, when killing your opponents (enemies). I don't really think the good general meant he would kill people _for_ fun (as in sporting) but in the heat of BATTLE, a secondary or minor feeling of joy or fun might be experienced just in performing your duties in keeping yourself and fellow comrades alive.

Or.............

just keep thinking that this guy is so horrible for expressing himself and not using a P.C. term when describing an aspect of _*WAR*_.
:roll:


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

mpd61";p="56719 said:


> I'm certain that after Pearl Harbor most marines (and soldiers/sailors/airmen/coasties/etc) enjoyed dispatching their Japanese opponents (enemy) Later, the same applied to our countrymen facing German/Italian/Vichy French (Yes! FROGS!!!)
> 
> It is basic human psychology when placed into a survival situation to feel some degree of relief and dare I say it, elation, when killing your opponents (enemies). I don't really think the good general meant he would kill people _for_ fun (as in sporting) but in the heat of BATTLE, a secondary or minor feeling of joy or fun might be experienced just in performing your duties in keeping yourself and fellow comrades alive.
> 
> ...


I completely agree. There is a reason why people try to keep humor in war situations. So they can come out a little bit more sane. Although, sometimes, it doesn't work...just look how Hawkeye Pierce turned out! :lol:


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## DVET1979 (Aug 4, 2004)

I think we should ship jeepinwheezle to Iraq, let the Iraqi's take a few shots at him, and then see if he enjoys killing people who are trying to kill him.


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