# Superior Officer Demotions



## scott115115 (Jun 9, 2010)

Lack of Money Demotions

Lawrence PD is demoting 14 Superior Officers from the ranks of Captain to Sergeant. Is there any MA Officers that have gone through this? Maybe Springfield or Fall River PD's? Are demotions based on seniority in rank? Are they based on original civil service appointment dates? Can you be demoted two or more ranks? 

If you have any information on this topic please post.

Thanks,

Scott


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Fitchburg did this too


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

I'll bet part of their thinking is that some of the guys that were captains will retire to avoid a hit in their pension, thus saving the dept. even more money.


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## scott115115 (Jun 9, 2010)

I don't think there is anything that can be done to prevent the demotions! We even have a clause in our contract that says "there shall be no reductions in rank through any means other than attrition" and according to our lawyer that does not protect us either. What I'm really looking for is someone who might have some insight as to how the demotions work. The mechanism Lawrence used was to send Layoff letters to 3 Captains and 4 Lieutenants. That forced the involved officers to file for "voluntary demotions" as an alternative to layoff. The cascading effect means 14 Superior Officers will be demoted. I am currently a Captain, but my understandind is I will lose two ranks. I'm being told that seniority in rank means nothing, and that demations are based on seniority in the Department. As a result of that determination, I can't bumb any of the sitting Lieutenants even though I made Lt several years before them.

I can't find any Civil Service cases on double demotions. Any one out there know of any cases? Is the City correct in saying seniority in rank means nothing?

Thanks,

Scott


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

My personal opinion is that they are not correct. How are the shift bids done, isn't usually the junior Lieutenant or Sargent gets mids etc... If they base anything on seniority in rank such as shift bids, special assignments etc... I think you would have a case of "past practice" on your side. Not saying that is going to be the clincher but it would be something to look at for starters. I would not take anything the city says at face value, I know in my city half the time the political powers that be know nothing about civil service.

good luck with this, I will see what I can find on case law, someone somewhere has to have gone through this same situation before. In any case I would be contacting my own civil service attorney.

Some reading and related cases that may shed some light.\

Employment & Labor Law for Public Safety Agencies


Federal court rejects a suit brought by a former highway patrol lieutenant who was reclassified as a sergeant-II after the patrol merged with the state police. He retained the same annual pay and he lacked a property right to retain the title of lieutenant. Carlberg v. New Hampshire Dept. of Safety, #08-cv-230-PB, 2009 DNH 68, 2009 U.S. Dist. Lexis 40304 (D.N.H.).

California appellate court holds that officers who are reassigned to lower pay grades or who are deselected from bonus positions have a property interest in those pay grades or bonus positions, which invokes due process rights. LAPPL v. Los Angeles, #B151027, 102 Cal. App.4th 85, 124 Cal.Rptr.2d 911, 2002 Cal. App. Lexis 4653 (Cal. App. 2d Dist. 2002). {N/R}

California appeals court holds that a predeprivation hearing is not required for a demotion or termination for economic reasons. Duncan v. Dept. of Personnel Admin., #B129036, 77 Cal.App.4th 1166, 2000 Cal. App. Lexis 60, 92 Cal.Rptr.2d 257, 15 IER Cases (BNA) 1753. [2000 FP 69]

"Reorganization" does not permit mass demotions of civil service employees; chief must be restored to former rank. State ex rel Warzyniak v. Grenchik, 379 N.E.2d 997 (Ind.App. 1978).

Court holds that only seniority within the affected department is relevant for reductions in force, unless layoffs are citywide. Town of East Hartford v. CSEA-MEU L-760 SEIU, CV#040830663S, 2004 Conn. Super. Lexis 1274 (Unpub. 2004). {N/R}

Dept. could demote certain supervisors for fiscal reasons, on the basis of a competitive exam and performance ratings (instead of seniority). Young v. Williamson, 497 N.E.2d 612 (Ind.App. 1986).


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## scott115115 (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks Gil I appreciate the help.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

If I'm not mistaken, both Winthrop and Fitchburg did this last year.

Seems to me your language is pretty solid...what's your attorney's reasoning as ro why it's invalid? Just so we're clear, you are in the union correct? Because at my job, patrolmen are in one union, LTs ?d sgts in another, and Captains and the chief are on their own. And you keep seniority within the dept as long as you don't shift out of you bargaining unit.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Not LE related but covered by Civil Service "bumping rights" Did a quick read may have some information you can use.

http://www.mass.gov/Eoaf/docs/csc/decisions/layoff/tomashpol_lisa_010710.pdf

Also see ...

*General Laws of Massachusetts - Chapter 31 Civil Service. - Section 1 Definitions*

Section 33. For the purposes of this chapter, seniority of a civil service employee shall mean his ranking based on length of service,
computed as provided in this section. Length of service shall be computed from the first date of full-time employment as a permanent employee,
including the required probationary period, in the department unit, regardless of title, unless such service has been interrupted by an
absence from the payroll of more than six months, in which case length of service shall be computed from the date of restoration to the
payroll; but upon continuous service following such an absence for a period of twice the length of the absence, length of service shall be
computed from the date obtained by adding the period of such absence from the payroll to the date of original employment; provided, however,
that the continuity of service of such employee shall be deemed not to have been interrupted if such absence was the result of (1) military
service, illness, educational leave, abolition of position or lay-off because of lack of work or money, or (2) injuries received in the
performance of duty for which compensation was paid pursuant to chapter one hundred and fifty-two, provided that the employee notifies the
appointing authority, in writing, not later than six months after the final payment of compensation aforesaid that he is ready, willing, and
able to do his former work and files with said appointing authority a certificate of a registered physician that he is able to perform the
duties of his position in an efficient manner, and is restored to the payroll.

If, as a result of a reinstatement made pursuant to section forty-six, a person is restored to employment in a departmental unit other than
that in which he formerly held full-time employment as a permanent employee, his length of service shall be computed from the date of his
first employment under such reinstatement, but upon continuous service in such unit for three years or twice the length of his absence from
the payroll, whichever is greater, his length of service shall be computed as though such earlier employment had been in the departmental unit
to which he has been reinstated.

_*If the employment of such full-time employee is changed through an original or promotional appointment or transfer from one departmental unit*_
_*of the commonwealth to another under the same appointing authority, or from one departmental unit to another within the same department in a*_
_*city or town, the length of service of such employee in the unit to which the appointment or transfer is made shall be computed from the date*_
_*which was used to compute his length of service immediately prior to such appointment or transfer*. If the employment of such full-time_
_employee is changed through an original or promotional appointment from one departmental unit of the commonwealth to another not under the_
_same appointing authority, from one departmental unit to another not within the same department in a city or town, from one city or town to_
_another, from a city or town to the commonwealth, or from the commonwealth to a city or town, the length of service of such employee shall be_
_computed from the date of such change of employment, but if the employee completes one year of service in the new employment, from the date_
_which was used to compute the employee's length of service immediately prior to the change of employment._

_If the employment of such full-time employee is changed by transfer from one departmental unit of the commonwealth to another not under the_
_same appointing authority, from one departmental unit to another not within the same department in a city or town, from one city or town to_
_another, from a city or town to the commonwealth, or from the commonwealth to a city or town, the length of service of such employee shall be_
_computed in the following manner: (1) if the transfer was made upon the request of the employee, the length of service shall be computed from_
_the date of such transfer, but if the employee completes three years of service in the new employment, from the date which was used to compute_
_the employee's length of service immediately prior to the transfer; (2) if the transfer was not upon the request of the employee, the length_
_of service shall be computed from the date which was used to compute the employee's length of service immediately prior to the transfer. In_
_determining the seniority of a firefighter for the purpose of reduction in rank or reduction in force, his ranking shall be based on his_
_length of service in the fire department in which such reduction is to take place._

_The length of service of a permanent employee appointed on less than a full-time basis shall be computed from the date of such appointment,_
_without regard to absences from the payroll which were not voluntary on the part of such employee. Regardless of actual length of service,_
_permanent municipal employees appointed on less than a full-time basis shall, for the purposes of determining seniority, rank below all_
_full-time permanent municipal employees. Permanent state employees appointed on less than a full-time basis shall accrue that portion of the_
_seniority of full-time permanent state employees that their service bears to full-time service._

Any person in such service who has received an appointment from a reemployment list, as set forth in section forty, shall carry forward their
seniority as prescribed herein; provided, however, that any lay-offs occurring after a reemployment date shall have such reemployment date as
the determining factor in lay-offs by seniority.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Wow, hopefully these Captains did not piss off any 
liutenants now that they are Seargants.


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## TRPDiesel (Nov 28, 2008)

Huh, we have the opposite problem, They keep making rank with a dwindling number of subordinates.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

TRPDiesel said:


> Huh, we have the opposite problem, They keep making rank with a dwindling number of subordinates.


Same here. Must be the current trend. Imagine 8 or so atrolman on the road, three Sarges, two Lt.'s. Re must be Mentally diminished to have this much supervision.


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## TRPDiesel (Nov 28, 2008)

263FPD said:


> Same here. Must be the current trend. Imagine 8 or so atrolman on the road, three Sarges, two Lt.'s. Re must be Mentally diminished to have this much supervision.


Based on what I have been seeing the only thing that you need is to add is a Captain and alternate a Major and Lt Col on OT to fufill supervisory obligations


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Capt. position is eliminated as of this year. All that means is that we will probably be getting a fourth Dep. Chief real soon.


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## TRPDiesel (Nov 28, 2008)

263FPD said:


> Capt. position is eliminated as of this year. All that means is that we will probably be getting a fourth Dep. Chief real soon.


Too many Chiefs, not enough indians


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Amen to that, brother.


..... And the work load increases exponentially.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

mtc said:


> As does the criticism of the job done!


Those who can, do.

Those who can't, "administrate."


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## SinePari (Aug 15, 2004)

Scott, 

You have about 3 Lts and 9 Sgts in your division. I'm not sure how your bumping and demotion will affect you as far as shifts, pension, seniority, etc. Are they going to keep you as a Division Commander doing the same job but paying you less? Or leaving it up to the chief to pick another Lt in your division to be the acting commander?


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## macdaddy (May 26, 2010)

CHAPTER 31. CIVIL SERVICE

Chapter 31: Section 33. Seniority; computing length of service

Section 33. For the purposes of this chapter, seniority of a civil service employee shall mean his ranking based on length of service, computed as provided in this section. *Length of service shall be computed from the first date of full-time employment as a permanent employee, including the required probationary period, in the department unit, regardless of title*, unless such service has been interrupted by an absence from the payroll of more than six months, in which case length of service shall be computed from the date of restoration to the payroll; but upon continuous service following such an absence for a period of twice the length of the absence, length of service shall be computed from the date obtained by adding the period of such absence from the payroll to the date of original employment; provided, however, that the continuity of service of such employee shall be deemed not to have been interrupted if such absence was the result of (1) military service, illness, educational leave, abolition of position or lay-off because of lack of work or money, or (2) injuries received in the performance of duty for which compensation was paid pursuant to chapter one hundred and fifty-two, provided that the employee notifies the appointing authority, in writing, not later than six months after the final payment of compensation aforesaid that he is ready, willing, and able to do his former work and files with said appointing authority a certificate of a registered physician that he is able to perform the duties of his position in an efficient manner, and is restored to the payroll. 
If, as a result of a reinstatement made pursuant to section forty-six, a person is restored to employment in a departmental unit other than that in which he formerly held full-time employment as a permanent employee, his length of service shall be computed from the date of his first employment under such reinstatement, but upon continuous service in such unit for three years or twice the length of his absence from the payroll, whichever is greater, his length of service shall be computed as though such earlier employment had been in the departmental unit to which he has been reinstated. 
*If the employment of such full-time employee is changed through an original or promotional appointment or transfer from one departmental unit of the commonwealth to another under the same appointing authority, or from one departmental unit to another within the same department in a city or town, the length of service of such employee in the unit to which the appointment or transfer is made shall be computed from the date which was used to compute his length of service immediately prior to such appointment or transfer.* If the employment of such full-time employee is changed through an original or promotional appointment from one departmental unit of the commonwealth to another not under the same appointing authority, from one departmental unit to another not within the same department in a city or town, from one city or town to another, from a city or town to the commonwealth, or from the commonwealth to a city or town, the length of service of such employee shall be computed from the date of such change of employment, but if the employee completes one year of service in the new employment, from the date which was used to compute the employee's length of service immediately prior to the change of employment. 
If the employment of such full-time employee is changed by transfer from one departmental unit of the commonwealth to another not under the same appointing authority, from one departmental unit to another not within the same department in a city or town, from one city or town to another, from a city or town to the commonwealth, or from the commonwealth to a city or town, the length of service of such employee shall be computed in the following manner: (1) if the transfer was made upon the request of the employee, the length of service shall be computed from the date of such transfer, but if the employee completes three years of service in the new employment, from the date which was used to compute the employee's length of service immediately prior to the transfer; (2) if the transfer was not upon the request of the employee, the length of service shall be computed from the date which was used to compute the employee's length of service immediately prior to the transfer. In determining the seniority of a firefighter for the purpose of reduction in rank or reduction in force, his ranking shall be based on his length of service in the fire department in which such reduction is to take place. 
The length of service of a permanent employee appointed on less than a full-time basis shall be computed from the date of such appointment, without regard to absences from the payroll which were not voluntary on the part of such employee. Regardless of actual length of service, permanent municipal employees appointed on less than a full-time basis shall, for the purposes of determining seniority, rank below all full-time permanent municipal employees. Permanent state employees appointed on less than a full-time basis shall accrue that portion of the seniority of full-time permanent state employees that their service bears to full-time service. 
Any person in such service who has received an appointment from a reemployment list, as set forth in section forty, shall carry forward their seniority as prescribed herein; provided, however, that any lay-offs occurring after a reemployment date shall have such reemployment date as the determining factor in lay-offs by seniority.

In other words, date of hire rather than date of promotion is the deciding factor in demotions...


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## scott115115 (Jun 9, 2010)

Thanks for your replies guys, I appreciate all the help!

To clarify...yes I'm in the same union as all the captains, Lt's and Sgt's. The union attorney claims the "no demotion" language in the contract is only binding on the city for the 1st fiscal year of the contract becuase the city is unaable to forcast any finacial conditions beyond one year. I don't like it but thats what he claims!

I did speak with the guys from Fitchburg and they were all great. I'm meeting with an attorney they recommended next week. 

I'm still looking for a MA case that involves order of demotion. I'm trying to find out if anyone has ever fought in favor of first in rank vs. first in the department. 

Thanks Again


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