# State vs City Departments



## Dispatch857

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## DPH1992

With MSP your nearest back up could be 10 miles or more away at any one time (out west), pay is better than most city departments (with the exception of Boston in my opinion, even though I’m biased). Your first 4-5 years you’re almost guaranteed to be stuck on highway duty with no weekends and holidays off, although the same could be said for no weekends and holidays for city too. 

If you’re looking for more action and more variety it’s a no brainer the city will offer that. MSP along with BPD and other city departments have a ton of specialized units, but the exception with MSP is they have more unilateral power to “push” muni departments to the side if they want to. Even here in Boston the MSP is starting to involve themselves more than ever with our gang units in Dorchester and Roxbury. 5-10 years ago MSP having anything to do with BPD gang units was kind of unheard of. Agency cooperation is never a bad thing though..

Keep in mind the academy too. With a city academy you’ll be going home at the end of the day, MSP you’re out in New Braintree Mon-Fri for six months getting paid very little. 

It really just comes down to what you’re looking for. MSP has the variety in terms of specialized units but it takes awhile to get up to that and if you’re not comfortable running traffic for the first 5 years or so at least then I’d say go city.


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## Dispatch857

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## Treehouse413

Dispatch857 said:


> Exactly the kind of info I was looking for thank you. Yeah I have a baby at home so states academy would be very difficult to say the least. The unilateral power is an interesting point . Thanks again.


Get into the trades. Plumber, electrician. Eversource, Nat grid. Not to be a downer . Good luck either way .


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## JL01930

Does anyone know the recruit pay for the 6 months at state police academy? I’ve heard around $800 something bi-weekly. Thanks!


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## Foxy85

I believe they changed their academy pay rate to whatever their Step I pay is rather than that reduced $800 amount. I think this happen a couple academies ago. I could be wrong but I remember hearing something vaguely about it.


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## fjunior

DPH1992 said:


> With MSP your nearest back up could be 10 miles or more away at any one time (out west), pay is better than most city departments (with the exception of Boston in my opinion, even though I’m biased). Your first 4-5 years you’re almost guaranteed to be stuck on highway duty with no weekends and holidays off, although the same could be said for no weekends and holidays for city too.
> 
> If you’re looking for more action and more variety it’s a no brainer the city will offer that. MSP along with BPD and other city departments have a ton of specialized units, but the exception with MSP is they have more unilateral power to “push” muni departments to the side if they want to. Even here in Boston the MSP is starting to involve themselves more than ever with our gang units in Dorchester and Roxbury. 5-10 years ago MSP having anything to do with BPD gang units was kind of unheard of. Agency cooperation is never a bad thing though..
> 
> Keep in mind the academy too. With a city academy you’ll be going home at the end of the day, MSP you’re out in New Braintree Mon-Fri for six months getting paid very little.
> 
> It really just comes down to what you’re looking for. MSP has the variety in terms of specialized units but it takes awhile to get up to that and if you’re not comfortable running traffic for the first 5 years or so at least then I’d say go city.


The mandatory stay is an issue in the Trial Court Officer academy as well for recruits who have small children. The academy is only 8 weeks but they after the first two weeks of mandatory they make it difficult for you not stay the whole 8 weeks due to getting your hole ready by 6 am even in you live in the local commuting area of the academy.


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## WMA7787

Treehouse413 said:


> Get into the trades. Plumber, electrician. Eversource, Nat grid. Not to be a downer . Good luck either way .


THIS


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## JL01930

I’m in the trades and trying to leave for law enforcement. When I asked about State pay during academy it was so I can get an idea for how much debt to pay off and to save so I can pay bills during the academy and have a reserve while making less $.


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## kdk240

Honestly as much as I still like the job sometimes and I admit I don't love it anymore and want to go, my advice is this..
Do it right stay in the trades and go get on the fire!


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## DPH1992

kdk240 said:


> Honestly as much as I still like the job sometimes and I admit I don't love it anymore and want to go, my advice is this..
> Do it right stay in the trades and go get on the fire!


I’m even looking to leave my department and go Federal. Can’t even count how many positions I’ve applied for recently at the G-7 and G-9 scale.


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## fjunior

DPH1992 said:


> I’m even looking to leave my department and go Federal. Can’t even count how many positions I’ve applied for recently at the G-7 and G-9 scale.


I have tried for years always got referred no interview.


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## DPH1992

fjd1075 said:


> I have tried for years always got referred no interview.


What agencies? I’m not talking about the traditional stuff like FBI or DEA.


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## Treehouse413

JL01930 said:


> I’m in the trades and trying to leave for law enforcement. When I asked about State pay during academy it was so I can get an idea for how much debt to pay off and to save so I can pay bills during the academy and have a reserve while making less $.


I think it around 1k a week


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## j809

$29 hour


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## KPD54

DPH1992 said:


> What agencies? I’m not talking about the traditional stuff like FBI or DEA.


If you still wanna work uniforms, try USSS uniforms in DC. So long as you dont mind moving to that area.


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## DPH1992

KPD54 said:


> If you still wanna work uniforms, try USSS uniforms in DC. So long as you dont mind moving to that area.


I’m more interested in the IG’s. Tough to break into though.


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## Nhcop

JL01930 said:


> Does anyone know the recruit pay for the 6 months at state police academy? I’ve heard around $800 something bi-weekly. Thanks!


1k per week before tax.


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## KPD54

DPH1992 said:


> I’m more interested in the IG’s. Tough to break into though.


Try USSS, dm me if you want to hear a funny story about the USSS. Ive heard theyre looking for investigators like crazy. They have an opening up on USAJobs right now.








Criminal investigator


<p>Joining the Secret Service as a Special Agent will allow you to perform critical protective and investigative assignments. The special agent position starts at a salary of $49,508 (GL-07, step 1), with promotion potential to $146,120 (GS-13, step 10). For more information on the Secret...



www.usajobs.gov


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## bigfoot1120

For you guys recommending construction jobs.

Have any of you actually worked in the trades? I'm not talking here and there, but as your full time occupation. I seriously doubt you would be telling members on here to choose the trades over Law Enforcement if you had.

Not everyone gets in the union, and even if you do, they get laid off pretty frequently. Think about 2009-2013 when the economy tanked.


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## WMA7787

bigfoot1120 said:


> For you guys recommending construction jobs.
> 
> Have any of you actually worked in the trades? I'm not talking here and there, but as your full time occupation. I seriously doubt you would be telling members on here to choose the trades over Law Enforcement if you had.
> 
> Not everyone gets in the union, and even if you do, they get laid off pretty frequently. Think about 2009-2013 when the economy tanked.


trades don’t just mean a construction laborer. Become an electrician , work your way up to getting into the utility companies ( natgrid, eversource etc). Hvac for a state university. plumbing in business for yourself. you talk lay offs,... rather Collect unemployment than hire a lawyer to defend my actions in A justifiable use of force incident.


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## 02136colonel

bigfoot1120 said:


> For you guys recommending construction jobs.
> 
> Have any of you actually worked in the trades? I'm not talking here and there, but as your full time occupation. I seriously doubt you would be telling members on here to choose the trades over Law Enforcement if you had.
> 
> Not everyone gets in the union, and even if you do, they get laid off pretty frequently. Think about 2009-2013 when the economy tanked.


+1. My Dad spent his career in the trades. He encouraged me to get a job with the city/state/T etc


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## 02136colonel

DPH1992 said:


> I’m even looking to leave my department and go Federal. Can’t even count how many positions I’ve applied for recently at the G-7 and G-9 scale.


Does BPD still have guys on task forces (ATF/HIDTA/JTTF etc)? That almost seems like the best of both worlds. Keep your job with BPD, but do investigations on fed cases full time


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## USAF3424

02136colonel said:


> Does BPD still have guys on task forces (ATF/HIDTA/JTTF etc)? That almost seems like the best of both worlds. Keep your job with BPD, but do investigations on fed cases full time


Yes but 99% are detectives. Detectives with MAJOR juice. Like every other unit on this job.


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## DPH1992

02136colonel said:


> Does BPD still have guys on task forces (ATF/HIDTA/JTTF etc)? That almost seems like the best of both worlds. Keep your job with BPD, but do investigations on fed cases full time


We work closely with them, but they don’t have 1811 status obviously. I would like an actual 1811 posting with one of the IG’s, USSS is hiring quite a lot, but they can put you anywhere, the IG’s tend to work with you on where you live. 

We had a girl who left not too long ago to join ATF actually. She just finished up FLETC down in Georgia.


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## alonzo401

The main word on who got hired is "she". Be prepared to have absolutely no rhyme of reason and lots of travel expenses all over the north east if you do try getting hired by the feds.


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## DPH1992

alonzo401 said:


> The main word on who got hired is "she". Be prepared to have absolutely no rhyme of reason and lots of travel expenses all over the north east if you do try getting hired by the feds.


The IG’s operate differently than the more run of the mill agencies like ATF, FBI, DEA. I know plenty of 1811’s with all different IG’s that have barely ever moved their entire career. It’s just a different world compared to the rest of the 1811 positions out there.


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## bigfoot1120

I'm not buying it. If you meant what you said then you would have already quit (assuming you're on the job), and pursued a construction job, but I am assuming you haven't since you are posting on a cop forum.

As someone who once, may have worked in the trades, I can say without a doubt, I would not ever want to go back. 

Could you also provide us with some evidence of Massachusetts Law Enforcement Officers that have used reasonable force, recently, and were required to fund their own defense attorney?


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## bigfoot1120

WMA7787 said:


> trades don’t just mean a construction laborer. Become an electrician , work your way up to getting into the utility companies ( natgrid, eversource etc). Hvac for a state university. plumbing in business for yourself. you talk lay offs,... rather Collect unemployment than hire a lawyer to defend my actions in A justifiable use of force incident.


I'm not buying it. If you meant what you said then you would have already quit (assuming you're on the job), and pursued a construction job, but I am assuming you haven't since you are posting on a cop forum.

As someone who once, may have worked in the trades, I can say without a doubt, I would not ever want to go back.

Could you also provide us with some evidence of Massachusetts Law Enforcement Officers that have used reasonable force, recently, and were required to fund their own defense attorney?


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## Dpty1sp

VA is always hiring, you can negotiate your salary and starting is around 58-64k. Not including 10k extra for night shift. It’s a start and foot in the door for a federal gig.


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## KPD54

DPH1992 said:


> The IG’s operate differently than the more run of the mill agencies like ATF, FBI, DEA. I know plenty of 1811’s with all different IG’s that have barely ever moved their entire career. It’s just a different world compared to the rest of the 1811 positions out there.


call me some dopey hick cop, but what’s an IG?


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## JL01930

Inspector General. Didn’t even know what they were until DPH1992 mentioned them.


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## KPD54

JL01930 said:


> Inspector General. Didn’t even know what they were until DPH1992 mentioned them.


In that case, The CIA OIG is hiring for a handy $86,335 a year to investigate waste by the CIA... Talk about not hard to find.


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## WMA7787

bigfoot1120 said:


> I'm not buying it. If you meant what you said then you would have already quit (assuming you're on the job), and pursued a construction job, but I am assuming you haven't since you are posting on a cop forum.
> 
> As someone who once, may have worked in the trades, I can say without a doubt, I would not ever want to go back.
> 
> Could you also provide us with some evidence of Massachusetts Law Enforcement Officers that have used reasonable force, recently, and were required to fund their own defense attorney?


You took what I said too personal. was simply Pointing out the possibility’s of getting into the trades and that it’s not all construction work. Relax.


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## DPH1992

KPD54 said:


> Dude, just drop it,
> 
> call me some dopey hick cop, but what’s an IG?


OIG, every federal department has an OIG to investigate fraud/internal crime. Very difficult to break into them though. Generally they only take laterals and you need to be lateraling from another 1811 position.


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## TacEntry

DPH1992 said:


> The IG’s operate differently than the more run of the mill agencies like ATF, FBI, DEA. I know plenty of 1811’s with all different IG’s that have barely ever moved their entire career. It’s just a different world compared to the rest of the 1811 positions out there.


Yes, essentially an agency rat squad. Tough to get on from outside the feds. Great job of you do not want to do much real police work.


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## DPH1992

TacEntry said:


> Yes, essentially an agency rat squad. Tough to get on from outside the feds. Great job of you do not want to do much real police work.


They do plenty, there’s no shame in rooting out fraud and internal crime. Crime is crime.


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## j912839123

Can anyone actually speak to what it is like organizationally between MSP and some of the larger city departments? Where are the politics worse? Where is it easier to move up and get special assignments? Who has better people / organizational culture overall?


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## USAF286

j912839123 said:


> Can anyone actually speak to what it is like organizationally between MSP and some of the larger city departments? Where are the politics worse? Where is it easier to move up and get special assignments? Who has better people / organizational culture overall?


I think you may be getting a little ahead of yourself. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DPH1992

j912839123 said:


> Can anyone actually speak to what it is like organizationally between MSP and some of the larger city departments? Where are the politics worse? Where is it easier to move up and get special assignments? Who has better people / organizational culture overall?


Both are very political in the sense of who you know can certainly help, let’s not be naive.

MSP is much more “military minded”. You’ll be saluting officers at the academy and it even carries over into your career. With city and towns you won’t do that nearly as much and the vibe of city departments is much less military like.


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## Quo Vadis

TacEntry said:


> Yes, essentially an agency rat squad.


This is not quite right. There are many federal OIGs, and the work varies widely. For some, internal cases on federal employees comprise a very small percentage of total cases, and they mostly work cases on outside entities, like companies or individuals suspected of violating laws that fall under the purview of that cabinet department.

For example, the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (OIG for DOD), the Treasury OIG (separate from TIGTA), DOT OIG, SSA OIG, HUD OIG, and HHS OIG (among others) work a lot of “external” cases. 

For a hint, look at how much of a cabinet department’s budget goes to salaries for employees, vs how much money goes to grants and administration of programs. If a lot of money is flowing to the latter category, the OIG at that department will have a lot of outside cases (HUD, etc). If most of the money goes to salaries, there are a lot of internal cases (DOJ, DHS, etc). 

Another hint is to look at how many LE agencies are in a given cabinet department. At DOJ, DHS, and DOI, for example, there are of course many LE agencies, so the OIGs there can be very specialized. In some other departments (say, HUD), the OIG is essentially the only LE entity in the entire department, so it necessarily has a broader LE mission. 

DOI and TIGTA are the only OIGs that I’ve heard agents say were not good places to work. As a rule, OIG agents enjoy excellent work/life balance. Those coming from the Secret Service say that OIG stands for “Oh, It’s Good”.


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## Quo Vadis

KPD54 said:


> In that case, The CIA OIG is hiring for a handy $86,335 a year to investigate waste by the CIA... Talk about not hard to find.


A couple downsides to CIA OIG (and DIA OIG) is that their agents don’t participate in the special retirement system (12d) and don’t get paid LEAP (25% of base pay). Both of those are pretty big deals from a $$ perspective.


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## msw

Dispatch857 said:


> ............ Im 25 and I dispatch full time for one of these cities. I also work part time as a reserve officer in a town near by. I ranked topped 30 civil service for my city. This post is to get more info on state police and how it compares to being on a larger city department.......... All information is welcome, thanks!


You're 25, you're young, you want to be a cop.... get out of MA now and get yourself to a *Red State*. Do it now. Yeah, you got family, friends, etc in MA ..... you will make new ones. Being a cop in a Blue state - even if you are a local cop in a conservative City/area - is only going to get worse with time. Go somewhere where both the community _and_ the State legislature supports their cops.


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## TacEntry

Quo Vadis said:


> This is not quite right. There are many federal OIGs, and the work varies widely. For some, internal cases on federal employees comprise a very small percentage of total cases, and they mostly work cases on outside entities, like companies or individuals suspected of violating laws that fall under the purview of that cabinet department.
> 
> For example, the Defense Criminal Investigative Service (OIG for DOD), the Treasury OIG (separate from TIGTA), DOT OIG, SSA OIG, HUD OIG, and HHS OIG (among others) work a lot of “external” cases.
> 
> For a hint, look at how much of a cabinet department’s budget goes to salaries for employees, vs how much money goes to grants and administration of programs. If a lot of money is flowing to the latter category, the OIG at that department will have a lot of outside cases (HUD, etc). If most of the money goes to salaries, there are a lot of internal cases (DOJ, DHS, etc).
> 
> Another hint is to look at how many LE agencies are in a given cabinet department. At DOJ, DHS, and DOI, for example, there are of course many LE agencies, so the OIGs there can be very specialized. In some other departments (say, HUD), the OIG is essentially the only LE entity in the entire department, so it necessarily has a broader LE mission.
> 
> DOI and TIGTA are the only OIGs that I’ve heard agents say were not good places to work. As a rule, OIG agents enjoy excellent work/life balance. Those coming from the Secret Service say that OIG stands for “Oh, It’s Good”.


Hence the word "essentially" . If there is an internal investigation at any of the above agencies, who conducts it? Their OIG.


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## DPH1992

TacEntry said:


> Hence the word "essentially" . If there is an internal investigation at any of the above agencies, who conducts it? Their OIG.


Yeah, but it was implied like that’s a bad thing. Badge or not, if someone is doing something they shouldn’t be doing they should be held accountable.


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## Quo Vadis

TacEntry said:


> Hence the word "essentially" . If there is an internal investigation at any of the above agencies, who conducts it? Their OIG.


I’m not trying to be difficult, but that’s not quite right either. OIGs generally do not get involved in low-level administrative employee misconduct investigations. Agencies have office of professional responsibility/internal affairs units for that sort of thing. For example, misconduct by a federal prosecutor can be investigated by DOJ OPR without DOJ OIG getting involved.


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## Quo Vadis

DPH1992 said:


> Yeah, but it was implied like that’s a bad thing. Badge or not, if someone is doing something they shouldn’t be doing they should be held accountable.


I agree. Note, though, that for most OIGs, few of their employee cases are on other LEOs. That’s simply because most federal departments are primarily staffed by non-LEOs.


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## DPH1992

Quo Vadis said:


> I agree. Note, though, that for most OIGs, few of their employee cases are on other LEOs. That’s simply because most federal departments are primarily staffed by non-LEOs.


Exactly, I think people just assume they’re like internal affairs and are only out to take down other federal agents.


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## 02136colonel

Just to provide a local example of OIGs (and maybe someone from Transit could provide more info but this is what I’ve heard).
The Transit Police have an Anti-Corruption Unit (previously called Internal Security Unit), that investigates criminal conduct by non-Police MBTA employees as well as by vendors etc. They don’t do IA for TPD though.
TOD also had a Professional Standards Unit, that conducts IA investigations into TPD employees. The two units are entirely separate, with Anti-Corruption falling under the Detective Division and Professional Standards falling under the Administration Division. I’d say the TPD Anti-Corruption Unit is fairly close to an OIG


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## Quo Vadis

02136colonel said:


> I’d say the TPD Anti-Corruption Unit is fairly close to an OIG


It sounds like it has a more narrow mission than most fed OIGs. To reiterate, all OIGs do more than just internal employee cases. For several OIGs, about 90% of their criminal cases (I’m not pulling that number out of a hat) are on people who are not and never were federal employees. 

A few examples: HUD OIG works drug and fugitive cases in public housing developments that receive HUD money. SSA OIG works identity theft cases involving social security numbers. DOT OIG investigates criminal use of drones and violence against flight crews. Agriculture OIG works welfare fraud cases. None of these (and it is far from an exhaustive list) have to have any nexus to federal employee misconduct whatsoever.


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## Apooz

JL01930 said:


> Does anyone know the recruit pay for the 6 months at state police academy? I’ve heard around $800 something bi-weekly. Thanks!


800? Every 2 weeks….wow that’s like below minimum wage


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## Apooz

bigfoot1120 said:


> For you guys recommending construction jobs.
> 
> Have any of you actually worked in the trades? I'm not talking here and there, but as your full time occupation. I seriously doubt you would be telling members on here to choose the trades over Law Enforcement if you had.
> 
> Not everyone gets in the union, and even if you do, they get laid off pretty frequently. Think about 2009-2013 when the economy tanked.


I have plenty of buddies in the Union trades….they make good money and they all kill it on the side….some of them end up leaving Union and opening own shop. As far as lay offs….they do from time to time for a week or so in between jobs but they actually tell me it’s a nice break and there getting a pay check either way


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