# ma compliant firearms



## [email protected] (Nov 6, 2003)

Is it legal to ship a MA compliant firearm from a dealer in MA to a FFL dealer in another state?


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## TripleSeven (Aug 28, 2004)

Yes, as long as the firearm is legal in the state you are shipping it to.


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Not only is it legal, but you can also legally do the following:
- A MA FFL can ship a MA NON-Compliant handgun to a FFL in any other state.
- A common citizen who legally owns a firearm can ship said firearm directly to a FFL in any state in the union. Many dealers will tell you this is not legal, but anyone with a 6th grade educating can read the BATFE Regs and determine that dealers who tell you this are LYING to you so that they can collect additional fees that are unnecessary, from the seller.


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## Curious EMT (Apr 1, 2004)

Lens, thanks!

Ill use that as an honesty test when selecting dealers to deal with!


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Curious,

You're welcome. Glad to help.

Some dealers make ridiculous rules, as you'll find out. Thus some won't accept a gun shipped to them unless it comes from a FFL. There are places like Kittery Trading Post that refuse to accept C&amp;R FFLs (which allows the holder to buy C&amp;R guns as defined by BATFE just like a dealer to dealer transaction), etc. 

There is a lot of BS in this industry. I tried to order a CETME rifle from SOG in Ohio and have it shipped to Four Seasons Firearms in Woburn for me. We went thru the ordering process twice (two weeks after the first attempt they claimed they could find no record of an order) and when I called them weeks later (after the second attempt), SOG finally told me that they refuse to ship rifles to FFLs in MA!! They claimed it was the "law" (it is NOT), when I asked to speak to someone in authority, they hung up on me. SOG is on my shit-list and I take every opportunity to tell others not to bother dealing with them.

I prefer to do all my business with straight shooters (pun intended), that's why Carl at Four Seasons gets most of my business!


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## Curious EMT (Apr 1, 2004)

From what I've heard, F.S. seems to be a Grade-A shop.

Ive been discusing things with them Via EMail a lot, and they've been very helpful. And since im on the North Shore, It wont be too bad of a hike to get to them..


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Curious,

You won't regret it once you go there. They really believe in "customer service"!

I make the trek there, even though it is ~90 miles RT!


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

One small problem with this:
An individual can't ship a handgun via USPS. Unfortunately that's most of the time the cheapest way possible. and more and more common carriers are not allowing individuals to ship handguns.
(right now FedEx and DHL seem to be good)

All handguns must be shipped "next day" so you then have the option of common carriers, UPS, FedEx, DHL, RPS whatever. Due to absolute incompetence and a change in regulations at some of these carriers, individuals can not ship handguns at these places any more. Even dealers can't ship machine guns at some of these places...wtf.


Next small problem, there is no provision in the law that says a non license is to be given a signed copy of an FFL from a license.
Soooo how do you know the FFL you are sending to is bona fide? You can ask for the digits to fufill the EZcheck, but be very careful NOT to ship anywhere that isn't listed on that screen NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY.

Now to this end I am not saying, ship all handguns via a dealer, I'm saying research the options and ship the most cost effective and legal way you can. The problem being there's a lot of screwy laws in MA, and at the federal and other state levels that can really mess you up.

Long guns, not really a problem...ship UPS ground and you can ship to a dealer in another state. In some states you can ship directly to another person (intrastate), some states require extra paperwork intrastate (like MA's FA-10) so it's not really an option.

Again Firearm being a handgun in MA and long guns being just that.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

A dealer may ship a MA compliant firearm to another dealer, a non compliant firearm to another dealer, and so can you. Just make sure you follow the shipping rules, and that you follow the laws of the state that the firearm is going to.

Example: MA, CA, NJ, NY, DC, HI, all really tough on handguns and have many rules about what comes INTO them.



[email protected]";p="54844 said:


> Is it legal to ship a MA compliant firearm from a dealer in MA to a FFL dealer in another state?


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

SOT,

Re: Your comment on individuals can't ship handguns via UPS, FedEx, etc. 

This isn't true IF you ship from a UPS, FedEx depot. You can't ship from a UPS Store or other 3rd party pickup places.

I recently shipped my 1911 back to S&amp;W via FedEx with no problem whatsoever.

What I stated above is according to Fed law and the carrier's own tariffs. HOWEVER, I've heard of other people getting a lot of grief when trying to ship guns from USPS (long guns) or the common carriers. It depends on whether the person you get has a clue what the law or the regs say or if "they make it up as they go".


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Read it again. it is quite clear that I did not say you couldn't ship via UPS, FedEx etc.
I said that individuals can't ship via USPS (United States Postal Service) which is unfortunate because it is the cheapest route.
I also said that more and more common carriers (the USPS is not a common carrier) are not allowing individuals to ship handguns. Example you used to be able to ship handguns via RPS, and it was CHEAP...now they do not accept them as they have been bought by someone that has a vested interest in charging MORE for the shipping of handguns.
Adding that as a dealer I can't even ship machine guns via UPS...another common carrier.



LenS";p="54908 said:


> SOT,
> 
> Re: Your comment on individuals can't ship handguns via UPS, FedEx, etc.
> 
> ...


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

SOT,

Sorry, I did misread what you posted.

BTW, DHL says NO firearms (long or short) and no gun parts. This is in their tariffs.

I wouldn't ship a gun via USPS anyway. They don't pay claims and jerk you around for at least 6 months if they do decide to pay. You can't put a trace on a package for 30 days. If you pay for return receipt and they don't return the receipt, they say "tough" and it is policy that they do NOT refund you for "services not performed". BTDT


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

DHL Tariff 1001-B Effective: January 16, 2005
One more off the list, as of this last September we were using DHL for guns. That sort of sucks because they were cheap.

What worries me is at some point all these folks are going to say screw it, no guns...then we will be collectively screwed.

Try getting a claim for a gun from UPS about the same as USPS.
We had UPS deliver a gun, signature required, next day....to the wrong address, and they left it at a door step -no signature. The ONLY way we knew it happened was that the person who lived at the house called us up and bitched at us that we sent her a gun and she was VERY upset.



LenS";p="54914 said:


> SOT,
> 
> Sorry, I did misread what you posted.
> 
> ...


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## Dan H (Sep 22, 2004)

*Re: shipping of firearms*



SOT_II";p="54904 said:


> One small problem with this:
> 
> Long guns, not really a problem...ship UPS ground and you can ship to a dealer in another state. In some states you can ship directly to another person (intrastate), some states require extra paperwork intrastate (like MA's FA-10) so it's not really an option.
> 
> Again Firearm being a handgun in MA and long guns being just that.


Hey SOT,
I have a FedEx and UPS account. Would I be able to use either to ship a long gun using my on-call pickup or do I need to bring it to a location? As far as packaging, can I just slap a label on the locked hard case or do I need to put it in a box? Thanks for the info, if you can help me.

Dan H


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Dan,

Yes you can package, label and have them pickup or hand the package off to any UPS/FedEx driver.

I don't know if slapping a label on a gun case meets their regs or not, but that is a "STEAL ME" advertisement that I would NOT put on my guns! I'd box up the gun case so that it isn't totally obvious what is in the package to some package handler . . . thus improving the chances that the gun gets to the proper destination.

UPS already acknowledged that they can't control gun shipments from being stolen in transit by employees, that was the exact reason they now require us to ship overnight for handguns. Why tempt them to steal yours?


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## Dan H (Sep 22, 2004)

Thanks for the info Len, I had thought I did that as a PM. I guess I'll have to find a box that can take the whole case, no sense sending the rifle and case seperate. 
I would have hoped packages were alittle more secure with these companies. 
I've had alot of computer equiptment shipped around in retail boxes lately and I guess I've just been lucky they haven't been stolen.


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Dan, I asked the shipping questions of UPS (I have a good internal contact involved in security, ex-LEO) and my regular driver.

Back in 1999-2000 timeframe I was installing a number of computers/network at a computer client and my distributor shipped 5 cartons to me UPS. Only 4 showed up, the missing one was a very expensive (for that time) monitor that came in a logo'd box listing all the features (good enough to steal)!

The Danish M1 that I ordered from CMP was shipped FedEx, using cloth thread embedded tape every 6" around the carton. All but one band of tape was neatly cut and I figure when the wannabee thief reached in and got a handful of cosmoline he decided it must be junk and didn't steal it. No other damage to the carton!

So, pack carefully and don't trust them worth a damn.

U-Haul may have cartons of a useful size?


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## EMT764911 (Feb 3, 2005)

OK heres a little side twist in the transporting of firearms law when a firearm enters MA and it is being delivered by UPS FEDEX or USPS are these delivery drivers licensed to posess a firearm ? arent they breaking the law as being in posession of the firearm if they are not licensed?


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

IIRC, Fed Law exempts them as "common carriers" (and licenses them as such). Not sure if MA law mirrors this or not, and don't care to know! :roll: 

I'm sure that if it weren't legal, our A-hole AG would have shutdown all commerce into MA of firearms and ammo (even to PDs) before now!

But this is the reason UPS gives as to why the "UPS Store", etc. can't accept shipments of firearms.


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## Dan H (Sep 22, 2004)

Maybe I'll ship it in pieces and try to put them in misleading boxes. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed.


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## dfc2502 (Oct 28, 2003)

This is a differant twist on the topic.
I am in the process of building a 10 inch AR15. The form 1 has the tax stamp and shows that the overall length will be 25 inches. My question is will this gun still be legal in MA? Yes, it will have a flash supressor, High capacity mags, &amp; a pistol grip. Due to its registration as a SBR the collasible stock is now an expandable stock. There may or may not be a bayonet lug. It depends on the M203 design I use.


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