# Mass state police order 2,500 pistols



## niteowl1970

Mass state police order 2,500 pistols | WWLP.com

SPRINGFIELD, Mass. (WWLP) - The Massachusetts State Police are being fitted with new firearms made by Smith and Wesson.
The Springfield Gunmaker announced Monday that Massachusetts and Vermont State Police have signed contracts for new duty firearms from the M&P Pistol Series.

Mass State Police have ordered 25-hundred Smith & Wesson 45 caliber M&P pistols.
Vermont State Police ordered the 40 calibers.

Both agencies are already using the M&P pistols in the field.

No financial terms were revealed.


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## Guest

Is that supposed to be public knowledge... what type of sidearm Troopers carry? 

Sent from my ADR6300


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## niteowl1970

right.as.rain said:


> Is that supposed to be public knowledge... what type of sidearm Troopers carry?


If it's a state agency I assume that the purchase orders are public record.


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## Guest

niteowl1970 said:


> If it's a state agency I assume that the purchase orders are public record.


Not to mention that everyone knows they're going to carry something that goes "BANG" and that you don't want to be in front of it when it goes off.....a .45 round coming out of a S&W, SIG, Glock, or a WWII-surplus M1911A1 is going to be equally devastating.


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## niteowl1970

Delta784 said:


> a .45 round coming out of a S&W, SIG, Glock, or a WWII-surplus M1911A1 is going to be equally devastating.


I can't wait to see what Springfield's resident race baiter and President of the NAACP Talbert Swann says about this purchase. He's made comments in the past about how police should work on utilizing non-violent crisis intervention techniques and questioned why police don't" shoot to wound" instead of aiming at center mass.


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## 9319

Do Troopers still get issued a smaller sidearm as well as a primary issue? Watched something on the history chan a couple years ago when they had revolvers and if I remember I think they had a on duty and an "off duty" weapon.


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## Guest

niteowl1970 said:


> I can't wait to see what Springfield's resident race baiter and President of the NAACP Talbert Swann says about this purchase. He's made comments in the past about how police should work on utilizing non-violent crisis intervention techniques and questioned why police don't" shoot to wound" instead of aiming at center mass.


My counter-point would be that .45 ACP hollow-points have a roughly 90% one-shot stop success rate, versus roughly 65% for 9mm hollow-points. Isn't the public safer if the threat can be immobilized with one shot, and therefore there are less rounds flying around?


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## SinePari

niteowl1970 said:


> I can't wait to see what Springfield's resident race baiter and President of the NAACP Talbert Swann says about this purchase. He's made comments in the past about how police should work on utilizing non-violent crisis intervention techniques and questioned why police don't" shoot to wound" instead of aiming at center mass.


He should be ECSTATIC that a local company got the contract, thus keeping a very few job-holding Springfield residents gainfully employed. This, even after field testing of several guns from different manufacturers and the S&W beat out Glock and others; regardless of where they are built.


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## 7costanza

When any Dept decides on their Firearm what goes.into that process? Basically who makes the final decision on what the choice will be? Is it the Union, Chief , do the Officers/Troopers have any say at all or is it a fiscal decision and that's all?.


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## kwflatbed

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


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## Pvt. Cowboy

Does this make me a whacker now? Since I have an M&P45 as well?

...that I bought in 09 and got my balls busted for...


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## cc3915

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Does this make me a whacker now? Since I have an M&P45 as well?
> 
> ...that I bought in 09 and got my balls busted for...


No, that makes the MSP, Pvt. Cowboy whackers.

Sent from iPhone via Tapatalk


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## mpd61

1. This is gonna really set the "God carries a Glock" crew off!
2. This is gonna really disappoint the Sig lovers
3. Ballistics being what they are, a solid hit with newer "83% effective" 9mm rounds might be better than that "one stop" .45 acp round.
Lets not get that argument started.


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## RodneyFarva

I wonder if they are going to sell the old Sigs


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## 7costanza

Man, if I could land one of those to go with my new ID and badge....we call it the Triple Trifecta in Whackerville.


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## Guest

Javert said:


> Do Troopers still get issued a smaller sidearm as well as a primary issue? Watched something on the history chan a couple years ago when they had revolvers and if I remember I think they had a on duty and an "off duty" weapon.


One of my dad's friends when I was growing up was a trooper, and back then (60's-70's) he was issued a Walther PPK for off-duty carry, since the issued 6-inch revolver for duty carry was impractical for concealment.


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## mpd61

RodneyFarva said:


> I wonder if they are going to sell the old Sigs


They probably turned em into S&W as part of the acquisition. That is usually what happens. Although I know the Framingham Sigs went to Ray in Hudson, and the kids were given a time frame to buy them back for sentimental reasons.


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## cc3915

Javert said:


> Do Troopers still get issued a smaller sidearm as well as a primary issue? Watched something on the history chan a couple years ago when they had revolvers and if I remember I think they had a on duty and an "off duty" weapon.


Like Delta mentioned above, the MSP once issued an off duty weapon, but that practice stopped in 1992 at the merger.


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## Killjoy

Javert said:


> Do Troopers still get issued a smaller sidearm as well as a primary issue? Watched something on the history chan a couple years ago when they had revolvers and if I remember I think they had a on duty and an "off duty" weapon.


Troopers used to be required to be armed 24-7, on or off duty, therefore the job provided Troopers with a duty weapon, often a 4-inch barreled revolver, for instance in the early 80's a Smith & Wesson Model 65 in.357 Magnum for uniformed carry and an smaller off-duty weapon; in the early 80's a Smith & Wesson model 38 Bodyguard in .38 special. With adoption of the 9mm Sig 226 in the early 90's and consolidation, the practice of requiring being armed at all times and issuing a smaller carry gun to Troopers fell out of favor. Currently there is no policy that requires a Trooper to be armed, except during his duty hours so the job does not issue off-duty weapons. Detective units and other specialized units do get issued smaller pistols for their duty purposes.



> One of my dad's friends when I was growing up was a trooper, and back then (60's-70's) he was issued a Walther PPK for off-duty carry, since the issued 6-inch revolver for duty carry was impractical for concealment.


The Walther PPK was issued for many years to Troopers in detective and other plainclothes units. I don't think it was actually issued to uniformed Troopers as an off-duty weapon, but I can't be sure. Troopers carried them well into the late 90's and many loathed giving them up.



> When any Dept decides on their Firearm what goes.into that process? Basically who makes the final decision on what the choice will be? Is it the Union, Chief , do the Officers/Troopers have any say at all or is it a fiscal decision and that's all?.


Ultimately its up to the head of the department, whether that is the Chief or the Colonel or whatever. In our department the Armorer's office conducts the testing and evaluation of any potential weapons, and makes its recommendation to the command staff. Suffice it to say the testing and evaluation of the M&P .45 was extensive, with tens of thousands of rounds fired through test models under abominable conditions and abuse and the M&P .45 passed with flying colors.


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## Guest

Killjoy said:


> The Walther PPK was issued for many years to Troopers in detective and other plainclothes units. I don't think it was actually issued to uniformed Troopers as an off-duty weapon, but I can't be sure. Troopers carried them well into the late 90's and many loathed giving them up.


I don't believe I ever actually saw him in uniform, but I remember visiting his house, and his marked cruiser (an ark of a Ford sedan with the single rotating blue light on the roof) was in the driveway, so I don't know what his assignment was.



Killjoy said:


> Ultimately its up to the head of the department, whether that is the Chief or the Colonel or whatever. In our department the Armorer's office conducts the testing and evaluation of any potential weapons, and makes its recommendation to the command staff. Suffice it to say the testing and evaluation of the M&P .45 was extensive, with tens of thousands of rounds fired through test models under abominable conditions and abuse and the M&P .45 passed with flying colors.


Our chief obviously has the final say, but since I've been with the department we've changed guns twice, and both times we had a firearms committee (the firearms instructors plus volunteers from the sworn ranks) make a recommendation, and the chief accepted it both times without question.


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## Hush

As for pistols being public record...Troopers wear them on their hip so its not much of a secret. SIGs were great pistols untill Cohen of Kimber got his hands on them. M&Ps have a great rep, though I havent fingerbanged them Ill take the experts advice. BUGs should be approved and left to personal discresion. J-frames are failsafe, but the MP compacts compare in size to the G26/27 and if they take the same magazine...sexcellent choice. Mags fail more often then blasters.


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## SinePari

7costanza said:


> When any Dept decides on their Firearm what goes.into that process? Basically who makes the final decision on what the choice will be? Is it the Union, Chief , do the Officers/Troopers have any say at all or is it a fiscal decision and that's all?.


The job actually let troopers from all divisions field test several weapons and evaluate each one. The Colonel blessed the process and passed along the recommendations to EOPSS for the purchase.



Delta784 said:


> One of my dad's friends when I was growing up was a trooper, and back then (60's-70's) he was issued a Walther PPK for off-duty carry, since the issued 6-inch revolver for duty carry was impractical for concealment.


Was this your dad's friend?


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## cousteau

The story I heard was MSP has some abnormal or questionable wear issues on certain parts of the SIG. When questioned about the parts and their origin, SIG's reply was their parts vendors names and locations are proprietary. (Possibly not made directly by SIG?) In other words, NOYB. This apparently didn't sit well with MSP brass. This may not be the true story, just what I have heard through the grapevine. I have fired the S&W they will be issued. It's a good gun.


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## Guest

SinePari said:


> Was this your dad's friend?


That's him.....he always wanted his martini "shaken, not stirred".....not sure what was up with that.


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## 7costanza

Connery was the best Bond by far.


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## GARDA

7costanza said:


> Connery was the best Bond by far.


And by far the best parody guest to appear on SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy:
connerys best - YouTube



niteowl1970 said:


> Mass state police order 2,500 pistols | WWLP.com
> 
> *No financial terms were revealed*.


"Hey Trebek,_ *financial terms were revealed*_ when I slept with yer mutha last night!"

and my .02 cents:

View attachment 3463


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## Pvt. Cowboy

GARDA said:


> And by far the best parody guest to appear on SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy:
> connerys best - YouTube
> 
> "Hey Trebek,_ *financial terms were revealed*_ when I slept with yer mutha last night!"
> 
> and my .02 cents:
> 
> View attachment 3463


"Rough, just like your mother likes it."

Suck it Trebek...


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## Herrdoktor

mpd61 said:


> 1. This is gonna really set the "God carries a Glock" crew off!
> .


It's not our fault that God knows what's up

Glock 4 life yo!


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## pahapoika

Glock 21 Pistol, 45ACP,* 13rd*, Semi-Auto, DAO, Full Size, 4.6"


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## mc2252

My friend Dave from A1 loves his...its got an etched MSP symbol and everything just like Springfield. Cant say id want and M and P over the Sigs they had but...whatever...as long as they go bang. 45 is a plus to...we carry 45 HK


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## Goose

S&W makes a nice gun and so does Sig. I haven't had to deal with Sig customer service since my Sig has never had any issues with it, and it's well overdue for a visit to an armorer (probably around 8-10K rounds at this point).

I'm just happy they didn't buy Glocks. :shades_smile:


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## Guest

Q5-TPR said:


> I have never been a fan of the H&K USP. Not that it is a bad gun, just not for me. I really dont like the trigger and it is very blocky. I shot one of the Germans over here not to long ago and reconfirmed my dislike.


That's how I feel about the SIG....top quality pistol, just not for me.


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## niteowl1970

Q5-TPR said:


> I shot one of the Germans over here not to long ago and reconfirmed my dislike.


I wouldn't advertise that you shot a German on a public forum. There might be cops reading the posts in here. :shades_smile:


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## mpd61

Glock Goobers!


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## Goose

Q5-TPR said:


> I shot one of the Germans over here not to long ago and reconfirmed my dislike.


I bet the German didn't like you either after you shot him. :redcarded:


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## Guest

aaaaaand we're officially off-topic.


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## 7costanza

If we were on topic this wouldn't be MC.


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## cc3915

7costanza said:


> If we were on topic this wouldn't be MC.


ADD reigns supreme around here.


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## HistoryHound

cc3915 said:


> ADD reigns supreme around here.


Oh come on now, no one here has ADD. Oh look at the squirrel..........

View attachment 3487


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## RodneyFarva

H&k is by far the best. also does Ray in Hudson still have is FFL, I thought the ATF was looking at him.


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## mpd61

RodneyFarva said:


> H&k is by far the best. also does Ray in Hudson still have his FFL, I thought the ATF was looking at him.


H&K is certainly adequate. Ray is retired, has no FFL and the ATF is quite done with the Colonoscopy. Much of his inventory now resides at IDC Firearms in Clinton.


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## SinePari

RodneyFarva said:


> H&k is by far the best. also does Ray in Hudson still have is FFL, I thought the ATF was looking at him.


I field tested the USP 45 cal years ago; great weapon. But for large purchases HK prices themselves out of the LE market.


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## vttroopah

SinePari said:


> I field tested the USP 45 cal years ago; great weapon. But for large purchases HK prices themselves out of the LE market.


Completely agree Sine. I love my HK USP 45C, but they _are _priced ridiculous. We switched to the S&W this fall and I was impressed. It's all the features that made the Glock so great in the late eighties and early nineties, but with updates and improvements. The trigger is fast, reloads are a breeze (no need to engage slide from locked position), and we got a couple extra rounds. We were having a lot of serious problems with Sig that weren't being addressed (I'd be happy to discuss off forum (PM)) and S&W made an offer we couldn't refuse. We could buy the Sigs from S&W before shipment for a great price, but so many hated the DAK trigger that it wasn't a big sell for personal use.

I'll go back into my hole now.


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## Killjoy

vttroopah said:


> We were having a lot of serious problems with Sig that weren't being addressed


Ditto



vttroopah said:


> so many hated the DAK trigger that it wasn't a big sell for personal use.


The DAK trigger was widely hated on our job as well.


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## MARINECOP

7costanza said:


> When any Dept decides on their Firearm what goes.into that process? Basically who makes the final decision on what the choice will be? Is it the Union, Chief , do the Officers/Troopers have any say at all or is it a fiscal decision and that's all?.


The process we have is based on the views of both of firearms instructors and then the Chief makes his final assessment based on our findings. So overall the Chief has the final say. We just changed from the Sig Pro 2340 to the Smith & Wesson 45 caliber M&P two months ago. I must say that I am quite impressed with the weapon and so are the officers in my department. The State Police made a great choice.


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## Herrdoktor

Q5-TPR said:


> Once I got use to the DAK trigger, I love it. When I pull out my double/single I hate it now. I guess that is what makes our country great, variety and the ability to make choices.


DAK >	double/single

There is no comparison for on duty use imo


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## OfficerObie59

As someone who's carried the M&P 45 for over 2 years now, I have no complaints and love the gun. 

The recoil is much less than the average cop expects, as having shot the .40 and .45 M&P side by side, the slower velocity .45 ACP and heavier gun make it a pleasure to shoot. 

From a command level, there are also logisitical benefits. Interchangable grips ensure that everyone can be issued the same gun without regard to those smaller officers amoungst us not being able to grip it properly due to size. That and I believe the .45c will use all of the same accouraments, like duty holster and stuff--meaning that when an admin guy works a detail in uniform, his compact will fit in the same duty holster issued to everyone else.

My only qualms have to do with the physical size of the gun. For one, it tends to get hung up on the seatbelt latch in the cruiser, and carrying it to court is kind of a pain in the ass.


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## 7costanza

I carried the 229 DAK for 4 years, trained and qualled a ton with it and absolutely loved it, still do. So did the hundreds of guys I worked with I cant remember anyone ever saying anything negative about it.


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## HuskyH-2

Wolfman said:


> DAK blows.
> 
> Squirrels?


I NEED these squirrels and I needed them YESTERDAY!!!!


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## Goose

Couldn't find any info on triggers...

Stock trigger, MA "stock trigger" (10#), or something else? I have two compacts and am not a fan of the trigger (especially the reset). I'm not turning into a Goober, but shot a buddy's Glock today (first time in I think ten years I've shot a Glock) and I liked the trigger better, but hate the grip angle and ergonomics.

I'm thinking of getting a full size M&P, but split on whether I want to go with the 9, 40, or 45. 40 is naturally popular since departments don't issue firearms here, but I haven't ever even shot a full size M&P much less all 3 to compare recoil and speed accurate of follow up shots.

I'm also not a fan of the wide rear site and narrow front site (wide enough to put two front sights in front of the rear site), but I know at least the rear sights were redesigned a few years ago so things may have changed.

Being able to provide mags to your buddies or being given mags in a SHTF situation is nice, but I'm a firm believer of carrying extra mags in my bag or in an external carrier anyway.


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