# Patdown Procedures Modified for Females



## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

*Patdown Procedures Modified for Females
By SIOBHAN McDONOUGH, AP*

_WASHINGTON (Dec. 23) - In response to numerous complaints from women, the government has ordered airport security personnel to avoid touching female passengers between their breasts when performing patdowns._

AP
Female air passengers had complained that airport security searches were intrusive and humiliating.

Security screeners now will keep their hands to the "chest perimeter'' of women unless detection equipment picks up the possibility that they are hiding explosives between their breasts.

The new method takes into consideration passenger discomfort while remaining steadfast in mitigating risks, said Transportation Security Administration spokesman Mark Hatfield.

The nation's 45,000 screeners are being told to pat down the perimeter of the chest, backsides and abdomen, effective Thursday.

TSA has made other modifications. Last week it began allowing passengers to lower their arms after the first part of a search so they can be more comfortable.

Women have complained about the intrusiveness of the searches. "This reduces some of the anxiety that some passengers have expressed,'' Hatfield said, adding that the change does not weaken security efforts.

Roughly 2 million passengers a week are patted down. Some are searched this way after setting off metal detectors twice; others are chosen by computer.

The government has directed airport screeners to carry out more frequent, more thorough searches for explosives. That policy was instituted Sept. 22, after 90 people were killed in two plane crashes in Russia believed to have been caused by Chechen women who carried explosives on board.

For female passengers, screeners would use the back of the hand to pat down the center line of the chest and follow the bra line below the breast.

12/23/04 03:53 EST

Personally, I don't care how they search me, as long as they're doing their jobs and finding bombs/knifes/whatever.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

O.K.

So TSA Screeners can still touch the outside perimeter of the Breast? Wow! I feel safer. Just like when they stopped allowing flash suppressors and bayonet lugs on AR-15's and AK's
:lol: 
Honestly!!! What they think is news and what they think is more important between Privacy and Safety
:sl:


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## ryan933 (Oct 3, 2003)

For starters, male screeners should NEVER be placing their hands on female passengers. Secondly, the whole pat down thing is a joke anyway. It is just an excuse for the screeners to get a cheap feel. The technology exists to detect the most minute trace of explosives. USE IT!

...your complete safety can't be 100% protected under ANY circumstances...so get used to it!

Benjamin Franklin, one of the founding fathers of the US, said it best..., *"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."*

Ryan


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

ryan933";p="49900 said:


> For starters, male screeners should NEVER be placing their hands on female passengers. Secondly, the whole pat down thing is a joke anyway. It is just an excuse for the screeners to get a cheap feel. The technology exists to detect the most minute trace of explosives. USE IT!
> 
> ...your complete safety can't be 100% protected under ANY circumstances...so get used to it!
> 
> ...


You seem a little upset. :roll:


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

kttref";p="49901 said:


> ryan933";p="49900 said:
> 
> 
> > For starters, male screeners should NEVER be placing their hands on female passengers. Secondly, the whole pat down thing is a joke anyway. It is just an excuse for the screeners to get a cheap feel. The technology exists to detect the most minute trace of explosives. USE IT!
> ...


Who cares if he's upset? I LOVE Norwegians. Remember Fritzjorf Nansen?


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

mpd61";p="49906 said:


> Who cares if he's upset? I LOVE Norwegians. Remember Fritzjorf Nansen?


Haha...I have a shirt that says: "Kyss meg. Jeg er Norgak"

You mean: Fritjof Nansen?  I know my fellow people hee hee.


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## Guest (Dec 23, 2004)

I can never get through those metal detecors, I set them off every time. I don't have any metal plates or screws in my body either. Must be the buns of steel.


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## frapmpd24 (Sep 3, 2004)

I am sure none of the TSA employees went overboard with their searches of females... :naughty: Giving them free reign to search like that is just asking for a few law suits. The terrorists with the weapons get through while the TSA screeners are searching the cute woman hoping for a date, yeah I can see that happening.


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## LenS (Nov 9, 2004)

Check this out! I suspect the TSA's latest story is a reaction to this I-Team report. If you go to the link, there is a video as well.
Video: http://video.wjla.com/wjla/iteam1124.wmv

From ABC 7 News:
I-Team: Illegal Strip Searches at Reagan National? 
Reporter: Melinda Mayo
Posted: November 24, 2004 5:55 PM EST
URL: http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1104/190100.html

-WJLA Script-

Anchor:
NEW ALLEGATIONS TONIGHT ABOUT ILLEGAL STRIP SEARCHES TAKING PLACE INSIDE REAGAN NATIONAL AIRPORT.

ON MONDAY, THE I-TEAM UNCOVERED CHARGES OF SERIOUS SECURITY LAPSES THERE AND NOW, WE'RE HEARING ABOUT SOME DISTURBING INCIDENTS RELATED TO PASSENGER SCREENING.

ANDREA MCCARREN JOINS US WITH MORE ON THE STORY.

Andrea McCarren on-set:
IN TSA JARGON, THEY'RE CALLED PRIVATE SCREENINGS. THAT'S WHEN A PASSENGER WHO SETS OFF AN ALARM IS TAKEN TO ANOTHER LOCATION AND CHECKED MORE THOROUGHLY FOR WEAPONS OR EXPLOSIVES.

BUT WE'VE NOW LEARNED ABOUT SOME PRIVATE SCREENINGS THAT APPARENTLY WENT TOO FAR.

Story:
TSA Employee: "I couldn't imagine my sister or my mother going through that process. I was so upset."

AGAIN AND AGAIN, TSA EMPLOYEES AT REAGAN NATIONAL AIRPORT -INCLUDING SUPERVISORS-TOLD US THAT PASSENGERS WERE ASKED TO REMOVE THEIR CLOTHING AND EXPOSE THEIR PRIVATE PARTS DURING SECURITY SCREENINGS&#8230;A CLEAR VIOLATION OF TSA'S OWN INTERNAL GUIDELINES&#8230; OBTAINED BY THE I-TEAM.

TSA Employee: "The look on their face would almost give you the sense that they felt like they were in a sense being raped. In a sense, being victimized and to a certain extent, they were. "

TSA Employee: "That really incensed me that someone felt that they could just put on some gloves and they could just violate someone to that degree."

TSA Employee: "They actually had the passenger remove the clothing that covered the sensitive area and perform a duck walk to see if something would fall out."

IN FACT, SOME OF THOSE SO-CALLED PRIVATE SCREENINGS WERE ALLEGEDLY CONDUCTED IN A VERY PUBLIC PLACE: THIS STAIRWELL&#8230;ACCESSIBLE TO OTHER PASSENGERS AND AIRPORT EMPLOYEES.

TSA Employee: "The private screenings were conducted right in that stairwell"

Andrea McCarren: Isn't that an inappropriate place to be searched?

TSA Employee: "That's a very inappropriate place to be searched."

TSA EMPLOYEES SAY AFTER THEY COMPLAINED, THE SCREENINGS WERE MOVED INTO THIS MANAGERS' OFFICE&#8230; WHERE THEY ALLEGE, UNSUSPECTING PASSENGERS WERE EITHER VIDEOTAPED OR MONITORED ON CLOSED CIRCUIT TELEVISION.

TSA Employee: I couldn't believe it! I said is that a camera up there? And they said yeah.

Andrea McCarren: Do you think the women being strip searched had any idea they were being videotaped? TSA Employee: Absolutely not

A TSA OFFICIAL INSISTS THE CAMERA WAS COVERED UP AND EVEN DEACTIVATED&#8230; A FACT SEVERAL EMPLOYEES DISPUTE.

Andrea McCarren: You saw a light go on in that camera? TSA Employee: "Right."

SOME TSA EMPLOYEES ALSO ALLEGE THAT THE PASSENGERS SELECTED FOR ADDITIONAL SCREENING WERE OFTEN DETERMINED WELL BEFORE THEY REACHED THE MAGNETOMETERS. 
Andrea McCarren: "You're saying a female passenger would be stopped for additional screening not because she set off an alarm but because of her breast size?"

TSA Employee: "Absolutely, Yes"

IN FACT, SHE SAYS SOME SCREENERS EVEN -INTENTIONALLY- SET OFF MAGNETOMETERS BY KICKING THEM.

TSA Employee: "It leaves supervisors in a very bad spot because if the manager's enjoying it, then how are you going to tell him to stop them from doing it?"

Mark Hatfield, TSA Spokesman: "The rules are non-negotiable and they apply to everybody."

TSA SPOKESMAN MARK HATFIELD.

Mark Hatfield, TSA Spokesman: "In terms of a violation or a criminal act, something that violates civil rights or the privacy of an individual, there's zero tolerance for that. And we'll get to the bottom of that and root out the individuals."

SOME FEMALE PASSENGERS FEAR IT'S ALL PART OF A GROWING TREND TOWARD MORE AGGRESSIVE SCREENING.

Woman #1: "Sometimes they overdo it. I've been almost stripped, practically."

Woman #2: "You're sort of treated like a criminal."

Woman #3: "I was like, whoah! You can't do that and the supervisor who I had been objecting to was standing right there and he said yes, we can."

TSA Employee: "It's very upsetting to see this happen and there are a lot of screeners that took his job thinking that they could do something good and many of them have quit and many of them are talking about quitting now."

Andrea McCarren on-set:
SO, WHO INVESTIGATES COMPLAINTS ABOUT TSA SCREENINGS? WELL, THE TSA DOES! THROUGH THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT, WE'VE REQUESTED ALL OF THE PASSENGER COMPLAINTS ABOUT SCREENINGS AT NATIONAL AIRPORT AND WILL REPORT BACK ONCE WE HAVE THAT INFORMATION.

REPORTING LIVE FOR THE I-TEAM, ANDREA MCCARREN, ABC7 NEWS

TM & ©2004 WJLA/NewsChannel 8, a division of Allbritton Communications Company


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## BigDog15 (May 22, 2004)

"""_possibility that they are hiding explosives between their breasts_."""

God I hate it when girls hide explosives between their breasts... 8)


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## copchika911 (Oct 26, 2004)

Aww how PC of them.... throw everyone else’s safety to the can just because a few females felt "invaded"....gimme a break. Security is of utmost importance, if they can't follow procedure, don't fly.... :^o


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## ryan933 (Oct 3, 2003)

> Aww how PC of them.... throw everyone else's safety to the can just because a few females felt "invaded"....gimme a break. Security is of utmost importance, if they can't follow procedure, don't fly....


You are out of your mind if you think this kind of thing is OK! :evil:

Ryan


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## copchika911 (Oct 26, 2004)

sarcasm? Did you not sense it?


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## ryan933 (Oct 3, 2003)

> sarcasm? Did you not sense it?


No, I did not.

Ryan


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## stm4710 (Jul 6, 2004)

> I don't care how they search me, as long as they're doing their jobs and finding bombs/knifes/whatever.


Why are you bringing bombs/knifes/whatever on airplanes to be found. 

TSA......Tear Shit Apart. :wink:


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## frapmpd24 (Sep 3, 2004)

That was a good video, I like how they call them "Private Searches", interesting :hump: . Call me simple minded, but don't most airports have decent security equipment where if the people are properly trained and not f'cking off can detect contraband? If not, how about a new tool called a "handheld metal detector" which is not that intrusive, yet gets the job done. And tell them where the bra strap is so when they wave it past every female they do not think it is a bomb everytime. Or maybe an even older tool called hands, those work too at finding weapons, most police do a decent job without all the fancy equipment. And follow the general guideline most law enforcement uses of having females search females if possible.

One of the most rediculous things after 9/11 was taking the security screeners, giving them a fancy name (TSA), some better uniforms, federalizing them (which automatically makes them qualified), and hiring the same type of people as before. Now I am sure there are the exceptions, don't get me wrong, but it seemed like a very quick solution to airport security after the attacks in NY/DC/PA to be well thought out. And what happens at Logan? A new federalized TSA and the State Police having to carry most of the burden with security. 

One of the most interesting parts about that video is the TSA is going to investigate their own alleged complaints. By the sounds of it there is a problem within the supervisory ranks condoning the searches. Last I checked probable cause was needed for a stip search and a judges order for a body/cavity search, or are the Feds exempt from that standard. I am not saying we should ignore security concerns, but lets use the tools in place, proper training, and some common sense.

:sb:


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## DVET1979 (Aug 4, 2004)

When I was returning home from Operation Iraqi Freedom, I was wearing my dress blue uniform with pride and honor on the way home. Naturally, I set off the metal detectors at the airport. Without verbal complaint or even a dirty look, I went over to the airport screeners as they searched me, to include taking off my dress blue jacket, which is not easy to take on and off and still have it looking spiffy afterwards. They seemed apologetic, but I understood that they had a job to do just like I had done. I am sure that a very select few women may have been touched "improperly", but on the whole, people should just shut up and deal with it.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

DVET1979";p="50487 said:


> I am sure that a very select few women may have been touched "improperly", but on the whole, people should just shut up and deal with it.


AGREED!


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## ryan933 (Oct 3, 2003)

> AGREED!


What happened to "sarcasm" kttref? Be careful, your true colors are starting to show!

DVET, I have nothing but respect for your service, but with all due respect, you must not have read the entire article and watched the video. I hope that is in fact the case, because if you are telling me that illegal strip searches being conducted in public stairwells is something we should all just "shut up and deal with", then please choose a profession other than LE. Same goes for you kttref! :BM:

Ryan


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Wait a minute, you mean that guy taking me into the food service area for a short arm inspection was not SOP! Bastards!



ryan933";p="50716 said:


> > AGREED!
> 
> 
> What happened to "sarcasm" kttref? Be careful, your true colors are starting to show!
> ...


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## lokiluvr (Dec 30, 2004)

ryan933";p="49900 said:


> For starters, male screeners should NEVER be placing their hands on female passengers. Secondly, the whole pat down thing is a joke anyway. It is just an excuse for the screeners to get a cheap feel.
> 
> Bull, them feeling uncomfortable, or national security? A male can conduct a PROFESSIONAL" pat down on a female an not be grabbing a cheap feel,and any one who thinks otherwise is sadly mistaken,or thinks a little much of themselves. I work in an environment where this needs to be done, and trust me, I'm not grabbing a cheap feel on any of these women.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

ryan933";p="50716 said:


> > AGREED!
> 
> 
> What happened to "sarcasm" kttref? Be careful, your true colors are starting to show!
> ...


Not quite what I was saying. But please feel free to take it any way you choose.

No one said anything about illegal strip searches in public stairwells, not sure where you got that one..but that's different.

On the whole I would much rather have someone feel in between my breast if they suspect me of having a bomb then worry about being PC about it. So in that respect I feel people should just deal with it. It's not just their safety that the proper screeners are looking out for, it's the whole plane/airport.

But, take it as you want Ryan.


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## ryan933 (Oct 3, 2003)

kttref, how old are you? I would guess about 12. Try going back to the start of this thread and read it. You change your view at least twice. You clearly did not even read the entire article posted above, nor did you watch the video.

kttref wrote:


> No one said anything about illegal strip searches in public stairwells, not sure where you got that one..but that's different.


Here is a straight cut and paste from the article above, and the capitalization is also present in the original article above, I didn't add it.

IN FACT, SOME OF THOSE SO-CALLED PRIVATE SCREENINGS WERE ALLEGEDLY CONDUCTED IN A VERY PUBLIC PLACE: THIS STAIRWELL&#8230;ACCESSIBLE TO OTHER PASSENGERS AND AIRPORT EMPLOYEES.

TSA Employee: "The private screenings were conducted right in that stairwell"

Andrea McCarren: Isn't that an inappropriate place to be searched?

TSA Employee: "That's a very inappropriate place to be searched."

TSA EMPLOYEES SAY AFTER THEY COMPLAINED, THE SCREENINGS WERE MOVED INTO THIS MANAGERS' OFFICE&#8230; WHERE THEY ALLEGE, UNSUSPECTING PASSENGERS WERE EITHER VIDEOTAPED OR MONITORED ON CLOSED CIRCUIT TELEVISION. 

So if the above situation happened to you or your mother, kttref, you would just "shut up and deal with it".....right?

Make sure you have the facts straight before you go shooting off your mouth and taking a sarcastic tone!


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

Ok, my mistake, I didn't read LenS addition to the thread. The speakers on my computer are busted, thus I can't watch any videos. Besides, it's been awhile and I have other things to do then memorize articles. 

This is becoming childish. Can someone close this thread? I'm done responding regardless.

By the way ryan, my mom wouldn't complain, she understands the notion of "National Security".


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Don't forget there is always the ignore button  but seeing how this has strayed we will shut it down....


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