# Condo Management company imposing illegal Satelite Dish restrictions?



## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey guys,

I'm just wondering if the restrictions that my condo's management company are illegal. This management company has treated me and my girlfriend like crap ever since we moved in here and has consistently harassed us about many things. All of my neighbors I've talked to have had numerous complaints about the management company and the buildings maintenance supervisor. The supervisor has harassed me several times about 'improper cigarrette disposal' and has threatened to evict me for it despite having no evidence that it's us. One morning my Dad was dropping me off after a doctors appointment and the guy started harassing me about the butts on the ground. At first he was nice about it when my dad was there but once my Dad took off he started making threats and being a complete jerk about it. I told him to 'Fck off' and he got out of his truck and ran at me in a threatening manner. I had two guys I hung out with a couple times overhear this and come running out of their condo to help. The owner of the management company ended up coming down to talk to me after this and told me that if they find anymore cigarrettes on the ground that they would fine me $25 or $50 a day until I left. I seriously never threw mine on the ground and always put mine out and threw them out in my trash barrel. I told him about what his maintenance guy 'aka his bitch' did to me and he said he'll take care of it... right... That ended there but I let everyone around know what happened. 

Anyways, that was totally off topic but my question is, can they impose restrictions on Satelite Dish installation that is beyond what the FCC states is a legal installation? They made a new policy on Satelite dishes a few weeks ago that states that you need to get pre-approval from them before installing a Satelite dish on your Patio. If you don't get pre-approval from them and you get a dish installed they will fine you $50 everyday until you take it down, regardless if the dish is installed in a FCC regulation covered manner. They also stole my satelite dish from me when I was sleeping after they threatened to fine me when I was sleeping because I didn't get pre-approval from them to install it. They took it on a Friday and then refused to answer my phone calls for 6 days until I tracked down the maintanence guy and asked him what happened to it. For a week they threatened me with their $50 a day fine if I didn't take the Dish down my friday and then when friday rolled around they decided to just steal it. I was talking to one of their under the table paid maintanence guys who does a little work for them and he told me that the management company has a deal with comcast (he also told me that he gets paid under the table by them.) 

Is what their doing illegal and what can I do about it? (don't tell me to move somewhere else, if I could I would.)

Any input would be appreciated!


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

1. This isn't a condo cop website. 
2. It's condo, they didn't "steal" anything, they took down something attached to their building that was not allowed to be there.
3. The condo is basically private property, except for some anti-discrimination stuff, they can come up with all the rules and regulations they want. You had the option of not getting involved with those rules by not living there.
4. Condo associations often have deals with cable companies, satellite service providers etc. It's very common as The condo company has often times invested in the wiring plant for the facility or approach the attachment of things to their facility very much like MA approaches cable franchising.
5. I have had several condos over the years, and quite honestly the only people that I have ever seen have a problem with the association and management are the guys that got in on low income or had just enough money from some insurance thing/accident claim to buy "up". A normal owner would rarely if ever have an interaction/get fined by management.

Quite honestly, it sounds like you are just not in the right place.


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## Crvtte65 (May 19, 2002)

Those restrictions themselves sound legit, not necessarily the actions or reasons. Talk to the condo association president (assuming you have one) unless they are hostile to you also. Other than that, if something is taken that is yours, call the police to report it (not on 911)


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## Tuna (Jun 1, 2006)

Get A Lawyer


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## Guest (Oct 26, 2007)

SOT said:



> 1. This isn't a condo cop website.
> 2. It's condo, they didn't "steal" anything, they took down something attached to their building that was not allowed to be there.
> 3. The condo is basically private property, except for some anti-discrimination stuff, they can come up with all the rules and regulations they want. You had the option of not getting involved with those rules by not living there.
> 4. Condo associations often have deals with cable companies, satellite service providers etc. It's very common as The condo company has often times invested in the wiring plant for the facility or approach the attachment of things to their facility very much like MA approaches cable franchising.
> ...


"2. It's condo, they didn't "steal" anything, they took down something attached to their building that was not allowed to be there."

It was not attached to their building, I did not install the dish in the common area, it was attached to the railing of my porch where I and only I have exclusive rights to.

There is no subsidized housing here, I put down a large deposit on the condo and have never been even a day late on a single payment. They accused me of throwing the butts on the ground simply because I'm outside smoking a lot (I work nights so I'm home all day) and because of how old I am (discrimination/prejudice against younger people  .)

Here's what the FCC says

*"Background* In 1996, the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) adopted rules for Over-the-Air-Reception Devices ("OTARD" rules). The OTARD rules prohibit restrictions on a property owner or tenant's right to install, maintain, or use an antenna to receive video programming from direct broadcast satellites (DBS), broadband radio services (formerly referred to as multichannel multipoint distribution services or MMDS), and television broadcast stations (TVBS). However, there are exceptions to the OTARD rules, including provisions for safety and preservation of historic areas. 
The FCC later amended the OTARD rules to include exclusive use areas by renters and customer-end antennas that receive and transmit fixed wireless signals. 
*What Types of Antennas Are Covered Under the OTARD Rules?*
The following antennas or dishes are covered by these rules: 

 A "dish" antenna one meter (39.37 inches) or less in diameter (or any size dish if located in Alaska), designed to receive direct broadcast satellite service, including direct-to-home satellite service, or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals via satellite.  
 An antenna that is one meter or less in diameter and is designed to receive video programming services via broadband radio service (wireless cable), or to receive or transmit fixed wireless signals other than via satellite. 
 An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. 
 Antennas used for AM/FM radio, amateur ("ham") radio, CB radio, Digital Audio Radio Services ("DARS"), or antennas used as part of a hub to relay signals among multiple locations *are not* covered by these rules. ​ *What Types of Properties Are Covered?*
Under the OTARD rules, an owner or a tenant has the right to install an antenna (that meets size limitations) on property that he owns or over which he has exclusive use or control. This includes single family homes, condominiums, cooperatives, townhomes, and manufactured homes. In the case of condominiums, cooperatives, and rental properties, the rules apply to "exclusive use" areas, like terraces, balconies, or patios. "Exclusive use" means an area of the property that only you and people you permit may enter and use. If the area is shared with others or accessible without your permission, it is not considered. 
OTARD rules *do not* apply to common areas that are owned by a landlord, a community association, or jointly by condominium owners. These common areas may include the roof or exterior walls of a multiple dwelling unit. Under certain conditions, if a common antenna is available for use by residents, then the community association or landlord may reject or not permit the installation of an individually-owned antenna or satellite dish, provided the service and costs are the same. 
*Are There Any Other Restrictions On Where I Can Install My Dish or Antenna?* 
Restrictions necessary to prevent damage to leased property are permissible, as long as the restrictions are reasonable. For example, a lease restriction that forbids tenants from drilling holes through exterior walls or through the roof is likely to be permissible. 
An association, landlord, or local government may impose certain restrictions when safety is a concern or where a historic site is involved. An example of a safety restriction would be installing an antenna on a fire escape. Safety restrictions must be narrowly written so that they are no more burdensome than necessary to address a legitimate safety purpose."

The part about the Condo being 'private property' is irrelevant as condo's are covered under OTARD.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/consumerdish.html


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Check your condo association rules, more than likely they "own" or have access to, without your permission, any EXTERIOR surface of the building.
For example: If the railing needs painting or repair, who's responsibility is that - not yours, then you don't have exclusive rights to the property. 
If your patio or deck or balcony is maintained, if there is damage or defect, by the association you do not have exclusive rights nor do you own that space.
If you have only one door to enter your space, a single front door, then the balcony is your second point of access/egress and part of a fire evacuation plan, you either can't put it there or you have to get approval.

Can you paint the exterior of the condo? If not you do not "own" the space.
Can you change the railing on your balcony? If you can not, you do not "own" that space.

Most condo association rules are written now, such that you have exclusive rights to the INTERIOR space of your condo, you DO NOT have exclusive rights to the exterior of the condo or any external surface or space. 


PS quit smoking and you won't have these problems!


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## Guest (Oct 27, 2007)

SOT said:


> Check your condo association rules, more than likely they "own" or have access to, without your permission, any EXTERIOR surface of the building.
> For example: If the railing needs painting or repair, who's responsibility is that - not yours, then you don't have exclusive rights to the property.
> If your patio or deck or balcony is maintained, if there is damage or defect, by the association you do not have exclusive rights nor do you own that space.
> If you have only one door to enter your space, a single front door, then the balcony is your second point of access/egress and part of a fire evacuation plan, you either can't put it there or you have to get approval.
> ...


We don't have fire escapes. We have exclusive rights to our patios. Only the person living in this condo has rights to the patio. The management can paint the patio but you have to ask them to do so, they can't do it without your permission. They can fix your sink, toilet, shower ect if you are having plumbing related problems but you have to give them permission to. They can't come inside without your permission. The only way to get to the patio is to come inside the condo first. There's no stairs that go to the patios nor anyway of getting to them besides coming into my condo first and then going out the sliding doors. It is clear that we have exclusive rights to the patio because only people who have patios can install satelite dishes according to the management company. People on the first floors cannot have Satelite dishes because they don't have any exclusive areas outside of the condos(the first floor condos don't have patios.) There are only 3 floors in the building so I don't think they are required to have fire escapes. The guy below me has a satelite dish on his patio but he got it installed before they made this new policy requiring pre approval so they couldn't make him remove it. He said they did make him move it once because it was hanging a few inches off his patio which is technically in the common area if it's hanging off the patio.

I'd quit smoking if I wasn't so bored all the time. Atleast I don't smoke inside like most people. It's much worse for you if you smoke inside.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Read the post again:
I'd read the condo association agreement. 
My bet is they can paint the railing without your permission and that you can not. 
They have rights to external surfaces on the building, you do not.
I did not say that you have to have fire escapes, but the balcony and the second exit are "egress points" as part of an emergency plan. Meaning exit out and entrance in. So if there is something in the way for say a fireman trying to get onto the balcony outside from a ladder, that clearly can be considered a safety issue.
It boils down to who is responsible for the upkeep of the exterior (painting, repairing, etc) if it's not you (which it seems it's not) they clearly you do not have "exclusive rights" in fact you may have permitted rights of use.
You prove this by saying that the association allows you to have dishes, if they are the ones allowing you...they you don't have rights, you are granted rights...again none of which are exclusive.
The fact that there is now a specific covenant not to place the object out there, clearly says you don't. 
The one thing that is a bit confusing, are you living in a condo or an apartment. Every condo I lived in I was responsible for upkeep of the interior. Never did management come in to fix things. 

So to recap:
They seem to be granting you rights to the exterior of the building and areas they maintain so effectively you do not have "exclusive rights". You are confusing direct access with some sort of "rights" which is not the same thing.

Obviously they too the dish, and you have not done anything ... so effectively you have sort of validated their right to remove things in violation of a covenant that you must abide by to live there.

Short version:
If there is a covenant, you do not have exclusive rights.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Cold and logical, SOT! Though I do endorse your suggestion that the citizen cease "smoking". I suggest that if one is "bored", one should take Abe Maslow's advice and "self-actualize"...or take up an indoor sport, such as masturbation, to pass the time...

"Hierarchy of Needs" and all that...


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

SOT said:


> Read the post again:
> I'd read the condo association agreement.
> My bet is they can paint the railing without your permission and that you can not.
> They have rights to external surfaces on the building, you do not.
> ...


The management company allows you to use a satelite dish on your balcony or porch to comply with the law. It says this in the notice they handed out. What they are doing that I don't believe they can do is that they require you to get written consent from them before you install a satelite dish. If you install it, despite it being a valid installation in a place that they allow you to, they will fine you $25 a day until you take it down.

"The first step of any installation is to recieve written authorization from the board. Without that authorization you are subject to a $25 per day fine. Northside is not obligated to provide dish access to every resident that requests it. The satelite dish policy is as follows:

A standard size satelite dish is permitted on the "limited common area" only. Limited common area is defined as the balcony only, which is in compliance with federal law. That means that a dish is permitted for residents with balconies only. Residents on the first floor are not permitted to have a dish and residents on the second and third floors, that cannot get reception off the railing or a stand, cannot have a dish. Finally, the installation is not permitted on the roof or the side of the building and cannot exceed a total height of 6' from the floor of the balcony to the top of the dish."

My installation (which was done by a directtv installer who has done installs here before) followed all of those guidelines except getting pre-approval. The install guy wasn't aware (nor was I) of their new policy requiring pre-approval. The link I gave you above to the FCC's laws on satelite dishes in condos/apartment/townhouses does not say that they can require you to get pre-approval for a installation of a satelite dish that follows all of their guidelines for a valid installation.

So not only did they threaten to fine me for a valid installation of my satelite dish but they went ahead and broke into my condo and then stole my satelite dish. The satelite dish was bolted onto the railing of the balcony like every other dish here is installed. It had bolts on each side of the railing so it was not doing any damage to the building whatsoever. My neighbor below me on the 2nd floor has one that was installed identically to mine. Only difference is that he had it months before I did...


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

Thank God I have cable...


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## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

94c said:


> Thank God I have cable...


Yea, I switched back to Comcast lol. The only thing that Satelite has over cable is a much better HD lineup, and I just got a 52" DLP HDTV. I've always used cable, that was my first time trying Satelite.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Basic Cable with TiVo biatch....all you need.

Here's an even better idea! Call up your local PD at 3AM using the 911 line (like all the other whackjobs do for stuff that could easily wait till morning) and tell them they must come blue lights and siren to enforce those FCC laws. I guarantee you the officers will handle this issue with complete courtesy and professionalism if you do so.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

OfficerObie59 said:


> Basic Cable with TiVo biatch....all you need.
> 
> Here's an even better idea! Call up your local PD at 3AM using the 911 line (like all the other whackjobs do for stuff that could easily wait till morning) and tell them they must come blue lights and siren to enforce those FCC laws. I guarantee you the officers will handle this issue with complete courtesy and professionalism if you do so.


Comcast Digital Premier in HD with an HD DVR Recorder on a 52" DLP 1080P TV...  Just wish I had the dish so I could get about 70 more HD channels.

Haha should I tell them you suggested calling them at 3am?


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

SOT said:


> 5. I have had several condos over the years, and quite honestly the only people that I have ever seen have a problem with the association and management are the guys that got in on low income or had just enough money from some insurance thing/accident claim to buy "up". A normal owner would rarely if ever have an interaction/get fined by management.


Who would have thought we'd disagree on this too!!!

We have, what some are calling, a "czar" running our condo board. In fact, there was a "hostile" take over last week when we were out of state...some people broke into the clubhouse (which by condo by law is to be unlocked at all times, but was locked by this guy), and changed the locks. A new board was put into place and how he is fighting it in the courts...with my monthly fees. Jackass. Oh, and we're being sued because of his in-action to replace some stuff...I will never purchase another condo (plus the guy is being foreclosed on and doesn't live here anymore anyway, so - per by law - he cannot be president of the board....jackass).

In regards to the satellite dish...We have restrictions in my complex as well. We have to get pre-approved, and only then (if the czar likes you and approves you) can you call a satellite company. We didn't even bother, cable was fine with us. So being a private institution, they can do whatever they damn well please.

Also, no matter what you say, I agree with SOT and guarantee that anything outside the walls of your actual living area is condo property.

Easy solution to the cig. butts...if you see them, pick them up. Even if they're not yours. It's called being mature and not getting into a pissing match.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

kttref said:


> Who would have thought we'd disagree on this too!!!
> 
> We have, what some are calling, a "czar" running our condo board. In fact, there was a "hostile" take over last week when we were out of state...some people broke into the clubhouse (which by condo by law is to be unlocked at all times, but was locked by this guy), and changed the locks. A new board was put into place and how he is fighting it in the courts...with my monthly fees. Jackass. Oh, and we're being sued because of his in-action to replace some stuff...I will never purchase another condo (plus the guy is being foreclosed on and doesn't live here anymore anyway, so - per by law - he cannot be president of the board....jackass).
> 
> ...


Yes, that's how our condo board is. The guy who owns the management company is the President of the condo board He doesn't live here, he's a stuck up yuppy prick who's got rich by scumming people (he actually scammed over $5000 from my Dad about 15 years ago. His tenant racked up 5G's in fines, my Dad was never notified of them and then his tenant fled back to puerto rico. The prick tried making my Dad pay all $5k.) Everyone I've talked to in the building has had nothing but complaints about them. My neighbor I talk to once and awhile said her condo fee has tripled over the past 5 years and they've actually done things to cut costs (took away all the security guards for example.) No one knows when the condo meetings are and no one really attends them. There are a few people who own a bunch of difference condos here and rent them out. Several of my neighbors have said that those owners get a huge discount on their condo fee, which is why everyone who owns and lives at their condos have to pay so much for their condo fees. The 2 bedroom condos are paying around $325 a month for the condo fee (which is just heat, hot water, electricity and maintanence on the buildings supposibley.) This guy who owns the company is filthy rich and I really believe he got that rich by coning people and continues to do so. I've seen him three times before, each time he was in a different car that costs over $100k (that ugly benz land rover look-a-like car, benz SL 600, and an Aston Martin Vanquish.)

Does the management company have to show where the money is going and how much each condo is being charged a month? If so, how do we go about getting this information? There's some extremely fishy crap going on here. One of the maintenance guys told me that he gets paid under the table and that the other maint. guys get paid under the table too. I'm sure the IRS would love to hear about that.

None of the individual owners who live in their condo never know when the board meetings are and when they do have them they are always during the day on weekdays when everyone has to work. Since I'm home all day one of my neighbors suggested that I should go to the meetings and speak on their behalf for them. I brought this idea up with a couple of my neighbors and they said they'd be more than willing to let me do that if it's actually possible. From what I understand, tenants cannot vote unless they are given power of attorney by the owner to vote on their behalf. Is this correct?


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

I don't know about MA laws in regards to Condos...but CT just passed some laws to protect condo owners. Specifically we don't have to fight with our condo board anymore (technically) for financial statements, etc...but we still do. Property managers (in our case the board president) must now register with the Dept. of Consumer Protection. He hasn't...I mentioned it recently to my neighbor and she is in the process of talking with the DCP and the state's attorney general. It just seems like too much of a hassle to me. Once our lawsuit is settled we're moving, plain and simple.


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## Guest (Nov 3, 2007)

A guy who smokes AND bought a DLP......... Strike 2 !!!!!! haahhaa


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

This is a perfect reason why some should only rent and never try and own.

I never had a problem with my association, any of them, and oddly the people that did...probably should have been living someplace else...this point continues to be proven here.

The fact that your condo fees include hot water and electricity just kills me, for $325? that's freaking AWESOME and I wish I was that lucky...fuck my condo fees ran like $800-1200 a month and that was for the club house, CAM, pool, and not much else.

Have you seen the price of heating oil and electricity and water lately? It's doubled or tripled over the last 3-4 years...so you can expect your costs to do the same. How about taxes? Is that included or do you have to pay them separately? or did you roll your taxes up into your mortgage?

FYI: The owner of the condo is responsible for all fees, if that owner has a tenant, and that tenant doesn't pay...that the problem of the owner of the unit...nothing to "cry" about and not a scam, just the way it is.



I love it!


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## Guest (Nov 4, 2007)

SOT said:


> This is a perfect reason why some should only rent and never try and own.
> 
> I never had a problem with my association, any of them, and oddly the people that did...probably should have been living someplace else...this point continues to be proven here.
> 
> ...


I'm one of the lucky ones who was smart enough to rent. I pay only $700 a month for my condo. Everyone I've talked to has said that their condo fee is above $300. The owner of my condo owns about 15 units here (there are about 250 units in 13 different 3 story buildings. Each building is divided in half, so there's 2 seperate entrances with no connectivity between the two halfs from the inside.) Yea I got a good deal on my place, but the whole place has fallen apart and the guy who fixes things for my owner is none other than the prick maintanence guy who also works for the management company. There is no way in hell my owner is paying anything close to $300 for the condo fee a month. These condo's go for between $130K-$225K. $700 a month - $300 for the condo fee = $400 - repairs/taxes = Big Loss.

By law everyone has to pay the same condo fee per square footage, discounts on condo fees are illegal. There is no way my owner isn't losing money on this place unless he is getting a big discount on the condo fee...

I can tell you that my parents pay less than $325 a month for Heat/Hot Water/Electricity in their house, which has 10+ rooms in it. My place only has 2 rooms... All the big appliances in my apartment (fridge/2 in wall air conditioners) are run off of a seperate 230V power source which is more efficient than standard 115V. Every condo has identical air conditioners in them (built into the wall running off of 230V.)

The plumbing blows here, my neighbor said she's had water and suds pouring down her cubards. Her ceiling is spongey from all the water leaks (although we suspect it's her neighbor above her using a portable laundary machine which is only adding to the problem.) The water has to get shut off for repairs atleast once a week for the past couple months. They installed a new hot water pump a few weeks ago and then the idiot who installed it forgot to turn it on when he left around 930pm. I had no water all during the day that day and then all night (i was up until around 11am the next morning.) Finally when he left the cold water worked a little bit but was nasty. Even worse, the toilet wouldn't flush at all because of the hot water pump being off. I called the maintanence department at 10pm and he told me he'll be by in the morning to look at it. Gee, thanks buddy, 10 more hours until I can take a crap/piss/shower/wash hands! I had no car at the time either so i couldn't go to mcdonalds or something, only had one bathroom, there was no water in the toilet either to just leave him a present for the morning...

A few days before that I had the most foul smelling water that leaked all over my floor, my neighbor's place was completely flooded way worse than mine and had to get a hotel for a week. After it all dried they replaced all the rugs as well as the rugs in the hallway and now months later it still smells pungent.

The Maintanence nazi also threatened me about 6 months ago because my girlfriend parked her car on the side of the parking lot near the building (she was maybe a foot on the grass which was already completely dirt from people parking there before her.) The reason? Our parking lot was full because people who didn't live there enjoyed parking there. She could've parked in another buildings parking lot further away if she didn't have a fricken' broken back, which was caused by slippery stairs without proper railings in her building at her condo in North Andover, which is managed by the same pricks as my place. There's no handicap parking spots here so she couldn't park in one of those with the temporary handicap thing she had got because of her back... The guy still had the balls to tell me "I don't care what's wrong with her, if she parks there again we'll fine you and have you evicted." I don't think I've met a more bitter person in my entire life...

The management company is Essex Management Group from Haverhill if anyone's wondering...


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Dude, as you do not own the condo and are a renter, then you have no rights at all. Jesus, you could have saved us a lot of effort saying that you didn't own anything and were just a renter.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

Shit...again I agree with SOT. Dude - you don't own. You have very little, if any, rights. Go own something and then complain. Thanks for visiting.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2007)

kttref said:


> Shit...again I agree with SOT. Dude - you don't own. You have very little, if any, rights. Go own something and then complain. Thanks for visiting.


The satelite dish law applies to both renters and owners. Furthermore, the owner cannot put something in the contract/lease agreement that states you cannot have a satelite dish that follows a valid installation. Now if you there is no place that you have exclusive rights to on the exterior of the building (ie porch/balcony) then they could prevent you from installing a dish and put it in the lease agreement stating that.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

At this point I am calling troll, well played sir...well played.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Put an egg in your shoe, Hutch...when you own something, perhaps members of this board will sympathize with you...heck, once you're a property OWNER, you may even be allowed to VOTE in local, state and federal elections! Imagine that!

Absent ownership, however, merely fade into the anonymity of Section Eight.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

What does that mean? Put an egg in your shoe?


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

dcs2244 said:


> Put an egg in your shoe, Hutch...when you own something, perhaps members of this board will sympathize with you...heck, once you're a property OWNER, you may even be allowed to VOTE in local, state and federal elections! Imagine that!
> 
> Absent ownership, however, merely fade into the anonymity of Section Eight.


My money is on Section twelve.


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