# Estimated LIDAR (and question about points)



## Guest (Mar 18, 2008)

I just got stopped today on 495 and hit with a ticket that said LIDAR and ESTIMATED. He wrote in some stuff that was hard to read, but I think it is: "OSS ? LL 1500 FT" and the question mark was something he wrote. It said I was doing 85 in a 65 zone. 

I honestly don't know how fast I was going, but it was not 85. I have a flat windshield and it starts vibrating bad over 75. (I know this because I was driving in the South where the speed limit was 70. 74 is really the top speed I could go in this truck) It's a HUMMER H2 and I just don't speed in it.... bad gas mileage.

I was in a group of 8 cars in the middle lane. The car in front of me was going fast and slow, so I waited to get around him. Cars were flying by me in the left lane. I accelerated into the left lane and that's when I saw the trooper walking out into traffic and pointed at me to move over and another guy in the far right lane to move over. Cars were flying by me. When I accelerated to go around, can that mess with LIDAR? Why would he pull me over and not the cars flying by me? Because I have a big Yellow HUMMER? 

My other question is points. In another post Tazoez said ...

"On a side note, if this is your first ticket in this state (assuming that you live in this state), your first speeding ticket will not earn you points so long as you have a clean driving record. It will, however, freeze you at the level you are at now for the next 6 or 7 (don't remember exactly which one) years." This is my first speeding ticket in 20 years and never had an accident. Had one ticket 10 years ago for an expired inspection sticker and the judge dismissed with court costs. 

I will have to take time away from my job to fight this in court and it will cost me a fortune in missed time. Ironically enough, I own a company that makes and sells software for Law Enforcement. I did not tell the trooper that because I don't think it matters. I don't care about $100 ticket, but I don't want points on my insurance. I also know that I could not have been going 85. 

Questions: 
What does OSS ? mean?
What does LL mean?
Is Tazoez correct about points in the quotes above?


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

What the hell is up with week? 

Regardless, I suggest you sell your yellow hummer and purchase a nice black sedan...but DO NOT tint the windows, and DO NOT add anything else that makes you stand out in a crowd...oh yeah, slow down.


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## Andy0921 (Jan 12, 2006)

> What the hell is up with week?


I didn't read the post, but I saw the title and thought the same thing.

SOT hasn't been around in a while. hmmm...


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2008)

I say that we take it easy on him, and toss a little consideration. He does work on LE software... Think about the MASSCOPS.COM implications.


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

5-0 said:


> I say that we take it easy on him, and toss a little consideration. He does work on LE software... Think about the MASSCOPS.COM implications.


I just registered. This site is awesome. Lots of information. I am not trying to get out of a speeding ticket. I just have questions. I do think that the 85 mile an hour charge is not correct. I would accept 75, but I guess I'm wondering how much it really matters to go to court and challenge it? I was speeding today, while accelerating, but not as fast as they said.

I don't speed and probably won't ever get another ticket. Hope you can understand that any normal person would have questions. Thanks everyone.


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

Wolfman said:


> A normal person would not "accept" 75 and then declare that she does not speed.


And another normal person would not say "she" when the login name included the word "guy". 

Let me rephrase. I do not normally speed. The last speeding ticket I had was when I was 16, over 20 years ago. I was accelerating to go around a car that was slowing and accelerating. I wanted to get around him. Bad move I suppose.



Q5-TPR said:


> If it makes you feel any better, if the ticket was $100, then he gave you the minimum. 85 in 65 should be $200!


The trooper told me that when he handed me the ticket. I said "Thank you" to him. As you said, it could have been $200. 
Happy BDay Q5.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

I don't know too many people who do not speed...also, Wolfman wrote that before you had a login.


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

kttref said:


> I don't know too many people who do not speed...also, Wolfman wrote that before you had a login.


No he didn't. He was responding to my post where I said I would accept 75 and that I don't speed. I was logged in then. Not a big deal... I'm giving back some grief that people are so quick to give me. 

Besides giving me grief, does anyone have answers to my questions?

Questions: 
What does OSS ? mean?
What does LL mean?
Is Tazoez correct about points in the quotes above?

Don't get me wrong, I can take a little grief too. I deserve it. Unfortunately, my wife told our 4 kids what happened before I got home. So, i have 4 kids all asking me why I was speeding. They are the authority that I just don't have a good answer for. I'd rather pay the fine than have to explain it to them.


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## Big.G (Nov 28, 2006)

At least he can spell and use proper grammar...


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## wgciv (Jan 4, 2007)

HUMMER can't speed said:


> My other question is points. In another post Tazoez said ...
> 
> Questions:
> What does OSS ? mean?
> ...


You're obviously adept at searching the board and finding other posts... most, if not all, of your questions have been previously addressed.


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

wgciv said:


> If you're so adept at finding other posts, why don't you find one of the 4,632 that have already answered your questions, gripes, protests, and complaints.


The name of the forum is "Ask A Cop". That's what I am doing. I have searched the site and cannot find anything about LL, OSS etc. If you don't know, no biggie. If you do know, but don't want to tell me, then I'm at a loss.


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2008)

LEOSoftwareGuy said:


> The name of the forum is "Ask A Cop". That's what I am doing. I have searched the site and cannot find anything about LL, OSS etc. If you don't know, no biggie. If you do know, but don't want to tell me, then I'm at a loss.


LL: Left Lane.
OSS: Operator Stated Speed

What town were in you on 495 ?


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

Sniper said:


> LL: Left Lane.
> OSS: Operator Stated Speed
> 
> What town were in you on 495 ?


Thank you very much!
I was in Milford. They were pulling lots of cars over. From the Pike all the way down to 95 along 495. They were everywhere. I've never seen State Police pulling so many cars over. Along route 3 in Plymouth County, I almost never see any cars pulled over for speeding. I was in Hopkinton on business today and don't normally travel 495.

Thanks again for answering those questions.


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## KEVDEMT (Feb 20, 2008)

lidar is an incredibly accurate way of measuring speed. if the gizmo said you were doing 85, you were doing 85. i dont care about vibrating windsheilds, humming from the tranny or any other bs wasy people use to measure speed. average motorists are supposed to use the speedometer. cops use either radar, lidar, or visual speed estimation and usually two of the above. if he only wrote you for 10 over, put him on your christmas card list, pay your fine and move on with your life. go to court adn i'll bet the magistrate only offers to knock it down to the minimum, which its already at so no gain there. your still going to get the points on your insurance as i dont believe there is any excemption for "first ticket in xx years" as far as i know. i very well could be wrong on that though


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

KEVDEMT said:


> lidar is an incredibly accurate way of measuring speed. if the gizmo said you were doing 85, you were doing 85. i dont care about vibrating windsheilds, humming from the tranny or any other bs wasy people use to measure speed. average motorists are supposed to use the speedometer. cops use either radar, lidar, or visual speed estimation and usually two of the above. if he only wrote you for 10 over, put him on your christmas card list, pay your fine and move on with your life. go to court adn i'll bet the magistrate only offers to knock it down to the minimum, which its already at so no gain there. your still going to get the points on your insurance as i dont believe there is any excemption for "first ticket in xx years" as far as i know. i very well could be wrong on that though


Although I still think that it was an inaccurate read, I think I'm tending to agree with you. It's a $100 ticket. Thanks again to everyone who offered information. To those who just gave me crap, well........ 

To all you guys (and ladies) who are serving..... thank you.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Not sure about the LL but a few things come to mind for the OSS...

Office of Strategic Services
Office of Supportive Services
On-Site Sewage
One Sixth Sense 
Open Sound System 
Open Source & Standards
Open Source Staffing 
Open Source Systems
Open Source software
Operational Support Services
Operational Support System


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

Gil said:


> Not sure about the LL but a few things come to mind for the OSS...
> 
> Office of Strategic Services
> Office of Supportive Services
> ...


Now, you're talking my language. Most of my work is for DOJ ATR, but am trying to get some work at DOI MMS. Almost all of my work at DOJ requires SCRs. I will be performing a PDI on a new RV next week.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

LIDAR is vehicle specific. It is also the most accurate speed measurement in the world. Those are facts. You seem like a decent person who is somewhat intelligent. I am sure you can see why "a normal person" (as you put) can side with the LIDAR instrumentation over your word saying you weren't going 85mph.
Either way, you said you would settle for 75. Well you were cited (based on the monetary fine) for going 75. Since you seemed to accept the responsiblity of at least speeding, I'd say pay the fine.
Be advised you WERE cited for 85. If you appeal it, it can bumped up to $200. Take that into consideration before appealing a ticket in which you received a break.


> When I accelerated to go around, can that mess with LIDAR?


Yes, when you accelerate you go faster therefore the LIDAR reading will be higher. And just because you were passing doesn't mean it is legal.

I will thank you for not being an asshole and spelling correctly. Good luck.


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## LEOSoftwareGuy (Mar 18, 2008)

MM1799 said:


> LIDAR is vehicle specific. It is also the most accurate speed measurement in the world. Those are facts. You seem like a decent person who is somewhat intelligent. *I am sure you can see why "a normal person" (as you put) can side with the LIDAR instrumentation over your word saying you weren't going 85mph.*
> Either way, you said you would settle for 75. Well you were cited (based on the monetary fine) for going 75. Since you seemed to accept the responsiblity of at least speeding, I'd say pay the fine.
> Be advised you WERE cited for 85. If you appeal it, it can bumped up to $200. Take that into consideration before appealing a ticket in which you received a break.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. I bolded a section from your reply above. I have a degree in Computer Oriented Mathematics, so I am quite used to hard facts and evidence. At the time I was driving, I was in a pack of vehicles, so I admit I did not see my speedometer. I honestly believed I was not going 85. Some of you have quite an advantage over me in that you have either used or seen LIDAR in action. To someone with no experience, I rationalized it by thinking that the officer must have clocked one of the cars that passed me and not my vehicle.

Of course, denial is a wonderful thing too. I just find it hard to accept that I made a mistake. I'm sure many people rationalize that it must be faulty equipment or user error. The more I read about LIDAR, it does seem that my large vehicle most likely made a very nice target for the trooper. That explains why he pulled me over and not the cars that had passed me. At 1500+ feet away, they were lower profile than my vehicle.

Sucks to be me. But on the bright side, my new RV will be delivered in a couple weeks!


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Did you get the memo about the TPS reports?


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

And I ain't givin' you your stapler back either biotch...


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## 78thrifleman (Dec 18, 2005)

LEOSoftwareGuy said:


> No he didn't. He was responding to my post where I said I would accept 75 and that I don't speed. I was logged in then. Not a big deal... I'm giving back some grief that people are so quick to give me.
> 
> Besides giving me grief, does anyone have answers to my questions?
> 
> ...


OSS means (O)perating at (S)lower (S)peed

LL means (L)ying (L)aw enforcement officer.

In ther words, to decipher cop speak, it means that he knows you were going slower than 85, but he lied about it because there was something about you or the vehicle he didn't like. They're just simple notes to refer back to at court.

Too bad for you, he didn't put OSL whch means (O)perator suplies (S)oftware for (L)aw Enforcement because you could have then appealed over the internet and not had to miss any work.

By the way, those LIDARS use a series of high pitched noises to guage speed, so if there were any birds in the area, you should be all set at the judge's appeal.


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## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

LEOSoftwareGuy said:


> Thanks for your input. I bolded a section from your reply above. I have a degree in Computer Oriented Mathematics, so* I am quite used to hard facts and evidence*. At the time I was driving, I was in a pack of vehicles, so *I admit I did not see my speedometer.* I honestly believed I was not going 85. Some of you have quite an advantage over me in that you have either used or seen LIDAR in action. To someone with no experience, I rationalized it by thinking that the officer must have clocked one of the cars that passed me and not my vehicle.
> 
> Of course, denial is a wonderful thing too. I just find it hard to accept that I made a mistake. I'm sure many people rationalize that it must be faulty equipment or user error. *The more I read about LIDAR, it does seem that my large vehicle most likely made a very nice target* for the trooper. That *explains why he pulled me over and not the cars that had passed me. At 1500+ feet away*, they were lower profile than my vehicle.
> 
> Sucks to be me. But on the bright side, my new RV will be delivered in a couple weeks!


Hard Fact:
LIDAR stands for Light Distance and Ranging. Its used by engineers, surveyors and law enforcement (in different applications) around the world. In our application it uses a time distance formula (Newton's laws-ring a bell?)
If it was a faulty technology or easily misused by the operator, the Chunnel would have ended up connecting England to Spain.

Admission Fact:
You didn't look therefore you have no idea how fast you were going at that instant in time, do you.

Size Fact:
Despite what you may read SIZE doesn't matter............

Selective Enforcement:
Take a nickel's worth of free advice. Don't make this claim at your hearing. If you're lucky you will get the "if everyone else drove off a bridge then what" lecture and a fine.


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

Just a word of advice:

I wrote a lawyer for speeding utilizing my own observations and LIDAR. When he appealed it, he made a long, extensive argument against the ticket. He said, in so many words, that I was blind, inexperienced and a boob who couldn't operate LIDAR. He said that he was "absolutely certain" his speed was under the legal limit. He threw everything but the United Nations charter at the Judge saying why he was not, could not and was physically not capable of speeding. 

The judge simply looked at him as said "LIDAR doesn't lie" and found him responsible. 
I have never lost a LIDAR ticket on judge's appeal.


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## lawdog671 (Sep 20, 2005)

*Although I still think that it was an inaccurate read, I think I'm tending to agree with you.*

Big flat surface....distinguishable vehicle....straight away....PASSING another vehicle on 495 which we are sure they were going 65mph or under....*laser speed measuring device with an inch wide beam at 1000 ft*...certified Lidar operator...you admit you werent sure how fast you were going but you KNOW the trooper was wrong...yuppie vehicle operator with entitlement smartassed attitude in SUV that screams I am compensating for something...I make your equipment (pay your salary...don't you got any bad guys to catch...Ill complain to your superior about how mean you are..)attitude.....I'm smarter than all you guys who stop a hundred people a week for the same thing...
*PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*
Paying the $100 minimum speed violation the Trooper was nice enough to hit you with, versus the full boat gig....
*$100 dollars and a day outta work....*
You're your own boss...take the break the guy was kind enough to cut you or suffer the potential consequences at court...


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