# Dracut stops all lateral transfers.



## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

That's a bad hit for those officers that wanted to out.

Concerned About Police Staffing, Duggan Puts Moratorium On Lateral Transfers | Your Dracut Today


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Fear of staffing level issues because so many want to transfer out? Sounds like some issues there that aren't fully being addressed. That can happen a lot of places and it's VERY unfortunate.


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

I did find it funny that they were concerned about future police applicants CHOOSING to work in other towns so they would have more opportunities. Aside from laterals, the residency requirement gives them a monopoly over candidates.


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

Well, if the officers choose to transfer to a non-CS PD, the town can't do anything about it. The town administrator can't block it. Although, The Chief might MF you, to the department you want to transfer to.


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

felony said:


> Well, if the officers choose to transfer to a non-CS PD, the town can't do anything about it. The town administrator can't block it. Although, The Chief might MF you, to the department you want to transfer to.


I know a solid guy who graduated from the academy as a self-sponsor a few years ago. A local chief had a purely personal issue with the guy and the chief went on a mission to keep the guy from getting hired anywhere. Although the guy was an excellent candidate, no other chief would touch the guy for years. It probably slowed his career down by five years.


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

felony said:


> Well, if the officers choose to transfer to a non-CS PD, the town can't do anything about it. The town administrator can't block it. Although, The Chief might MF you, to the department you want to transfer to.





Edmizer1 said:


> I know a solid guy who graduated from the academy as a self-sponsor a few years ago. A local chief had a purely personal issue with the guy and the chief went on a mission to keep the guy from getting hired anywhere. Although the guy was an excellent candidate, no other chief would touch the guy for years. It probably slowed his career down by five years.


It seems more like the town manager is the one pushing for this and not the chief. But either way, these guys not transferring might mean more academy slots in the city they would've gone too.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

And this is another example of how antiquated civil service really is. Imagine that, in 2017, an employer can own you and you can't go somewhere else, trapped like a mouse in a trap. 


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Doesn't Dracut have kinda a certain "history" regarding their PD?


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

j809 said:


> And this is another example of how antiquated civil service really is. Imagine that, in 2017, an employer can own you and you can't go somewhere else, trapped like a mouse in a trap.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They could always take the test again if they wanted too. I get what you're saying but


Edmizer1 said:


> I know a solid guy who graduated from the academy as a self-sponsor a few years ago. A local chief had a purely personal issue with the guy and the chief went on a mission to keep the guy from getting hired anywhere. Although the guy was an excellent candidate, no other chief would touch the guy for years. It probably slowed his career down by five years.


There was probably something in his background you aren't aware of.


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## patrol22 (Oct 31, 2015)

woodyd said:


> Can't a civil service Police Officer switch departments by getting hired entry level again? Ie if a Dracut cop wanted to leave, and he lives in Tewksbury, he could take the CS test, get a card and be hired? It's not a lateral move, but probably most departments would treat him like a lateral, i.e. not needing to go to an academy again.
> Not an ideal situation, but if your department is unbearable and you're blocked from a lateral move, it's a way out. Of course, as a previous member said, a non-CS Department is an option as well


Yep, I've known of people who have done this.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

You lose all your civil service seniority I believe.


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

j809 said:


> You lose all your civil service seniority I believe.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As long as there's no break in service, it won't be a problem.


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

j809 said:


> And this is another example of how antiquated civil service really is. Imagine that, in 2017, an employer can own you and you can't go somewhere else, trapped like a mouse in a trap.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Its tough not to agree with the town in this situation though. They have 8 guys they invested a considerable amount of money to train just so they jump ship for a higher paying city. Imagine the red sox trading players for nothing in return. There needs to be some sort of reciprocity, like repayment of training costs from the receiving city. Otherwise smaller towns just become training grounds for bigger cities.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Repayment of training is crap only $3000 for academy you cannot make them pay their wages and medical insurance etc. Departments need to be competitive but I reiterate, how can you be owned by an employer in 2017 and how can they hold you against your will. It's crazy 


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

j809 said:


> Repayment of training is crap only $3000 for academy you cannot make them pay their wages and medical insurance etc. Departments need to be competitive but I reiterate, how can you be owned by an employer in 2017 and how can they hold you against your will. It's crazy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's not about being competitive because smaller towns just don't have the budget that bigger cities do. Also you could easily make the argument that small town cops shouldn't make the same as big city cops. And there's other costs, like the cost of the hiring process and the ot spent while finding a replacement.
And they are not held against there will. They are more than welcome to take the cs test, go to a non cs department, or leave the field entirely. You act like their held captive. 
And the training costs are way over $3000. Their academy salaries/insurance costs are over 10x that amount.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Rogergoodwin said:


> It's not about being competitive because smaller towns just don't have the budget that bigger cities do. Also you could easily make the argument that small town cops shouldn't make the same as big city cops. And there's other costs, like the cost of the hiring process and the ot spent while finding a replacement.
> And they are not held against there will. They are more than welcome to take the cs test, go to a non cs department, or leave the field entirely. You act like their held captive.
> And the training costs are way over $3000. Their academy salaries/insurance costs are over 10x that amount.


This ^^^^^

The full-time academy is NOT 3000 dollars, its around 8000-10,000 now. That's a lot of money for a town to shell out just for a guy to jump ship shortly after graduating.

I know some state colleges who send people to the academy, and they have a stipulation that you serve a certain amount of time (3 years maybe?) before leaving, otherwise you will be responsible for paying back the academy costs. I don't blame them at all, they don't want to lose money or lose their investment.


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

I see both sides but if a PD makes an investment in you, they are under no obligation to help you leave by approving the transfer. Everyone knows that going in. You are also not required to stay there if you find another way to leave.
Guys will leave no matter what if you make working conditions such that they want out. I work at a non-CS PD. We have hired guys from CS PDs that were bailing from a negative work environment.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

My buddy was already trained when he went to a civil service PD and he tried to lateral out and was denied. And it's not that easy to move somewhere and take the test trying to get on. If you don't have any preference it's almost impossible. You shouldn't lose everything and be held back by a vindictive chief. If I was a chief and someone wasn't happy to be here I would be more than happy to sign their paperwork. I also have an academy classmate that hired a lawyer and was going to sue the department he was working for until they signed his paperwork to transfer. Like I said the only thing they can get back is uniforms and that might go away after one year plus academy tuition. There's a federal case law that says you get paid for wages and cannot be made to payback the wages. As more departments are leaving civil service, they are becoming or will have to become more competitive to keep and recruit people. We are seeing that now where some towns continue to pay full Quinn for new people and others that do not have a difficult time retaining and recruiting.


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## Rogergoodwin (Feb 15, 2016)

j809 said:


> My buddy was already trained when he went to a civil service PD and he tried to lateral out and was denied. And it's not that easy to move somewhere and take the test trying to get on. If you don't have any preference it's almost impossible. You shouldn't lose everything and be held back by a vindictive chief. If I was a chief and someone wasn't happy to be here I would be more than happy to sign their paperwork. I also have an academy classmate that hired a lawyer and was going to sue the department he was working for until they signed his paperwork to transfer. Like I said the only thing they can get back is uniforms and that might go away after one year plus academy tuition. There's a federal case law that says you get paid for wages and cannot be made to payback the wages. As more departments are leaving civil service, they are becoming or will have to become more competitive to keep and recruit people. We are seeing that now where some towns continue to pay full Quinn for new people and others that do not have a difficult time retaining and recruiting.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


On one hand you say that it's virtually impossible to get on a CS dept by taking the test and then in the same breath you say that depts need to be more competitive to retain officers. Which one is it? Because it seems that departments have no problem getting/retaining officers. And getting on another department if your already trained is not that difficult. With only residency preference, i've received a card every year for the last 3 years from my municipality. If your academy trained and have no disciplinary issues, you could walk on some bigger depts without a problem. 
And why do you think the chief is vindictive? He's not the appointing authority, it's the town manager who is responsible for maintaining the budget/staffing. 8 People wanted to leave a Dept with about 40 officers on it, with each transfer costing the city 120k-160k. Any town manager that allowed that to happen would/should be found in the unemployment line the very next day
As far as your friends lawsuit, he didn't have a chance at winning that case. Civil service law is clear that he would not have the right to skip over everyone else who paid and took the test, without authorization from his department. Plus he wouldn't have lost "everything" if he took a test for another PD. 
I have to say, if you were a chief that let 20% of his staff leave and cost the town hundreds of thousands of dollars, I can't imagine you would be chief for very long.


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## rammp45 (May 14, 2016)

Joel98 said:


> This ^^^^^
> 
> The full-time academy is NOT 3000 dollars, its around 8000-10,000 now. That's a lot of money for a town to shell out just for a guy to jump ship shortly after graduating.
> 
> I know some state colleges who send people to the academy, and they have a stipulation that you serve a certain amount of time (3 years maybe?) before leaving, otherwise you will be responsible for paying back the academy costs. I don't blame them at all, they don't want to lose money or lose their investment.


All state schools that fall under the AFSCME umbrella require length of service after graduating the academy. I know plenty of agencies that have a similar requirement. I have family on non civil service municipal PD's that have a service requirement. Basically for state schools it is 24 months/$8k for SSPO type academy or 42 months/$10k for full MPTC.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

rammp45 said:


> *All state schools* that fall under the AFSCME umbrella require length of service after graduating the academy. I know plenty of agencies that have a similar requirement. I have family on non civil service municipal PD's that have a service requirement. Basically for *state schools* it is 24 months/$8k for *SSPO *type academy or 42 months/$10k for full MPTC.


*THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCK SSPO and AFSCME both *(at state schools)
Like SSPO is going to get you onto a municipality anyway, HA!!! Thanks AFSCME! A union for Boiler Plant Operators, Clerks, and Janitors. Always looking out for the cops...........BWAH HA HA HA!!!!!! Losers parading around that Cordeiro kid from Bristol CC ten years ago! That kid was a traitor before the LRC


REMEMBER MASSASOIT MASSACRE 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

They had AFSCME in VT. They are not a true police union. Had numerous problems before changing to the NEPBA.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

AFSCME BLOWS 


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## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

j809 said:


> AFSCME BLOWS
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not as hard as NAGE


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## patrol22 (Oct 31, 2015)

Dracut police brass blasted

The article is a little old but I'm guessing it's still very applicable.


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## theunknown (Aug 10, 2017)

I think what a lot of folks has failed to understand is that lateral transfer has to be mutually agreed upon by both agencies. A small department, such as a Dracut, who are already understaffed can't afford to lose their officers to another agency. Dracut has always had a history of denying laterals for this reason.


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