# Questions about civil service rules



## ntvs (Jan 23, 2003)

Being new to the Massachusetts police hiring game, I am struggling to understand the rules.

Just when I thought I was understanding the rules, BAM!

I am referring to the recent postings of Police officer in Newton and Swampscott.

Could somebody please enlighten on whats going on?

Basically if I have a full time academy (MCJTC- waiver out of state) I can apply to Newton? Without even being on thier list? 

Also what is keeping people from changing thier prefrences and all jumping on these two towns.

Is it possible in the future to be able to apply to a region? Not just four towns? 

thank you.


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## Mitpo62 (Jan 13, 2004)

As a copper from out of state that returned 10 years ago I can tell you that the system here is convoluted and political. If the city/town you are interested in is civil service then you MUST take the exam first. Your training/experience/background will not come into play until much later when the city/town decides to appoint. For example, if a city/town utilizes an intermittent or reserve list then they can appoint from that list as they wish AND at that moment your academy training could come into play. Most politicians understand that it is far cheaper to hire someone with the academy than someone completely green. In the meantime to garner the police experience look for a non-civil service job or a good college to work at until your preferred city/town comes through. Take a deep breath because it could be awhile.


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## ntvs (Jan 23, 2003)

:lol: Oh I took the exam. I'm just trying to understand the system a little better. I was unfortunetly an out of state resident last April.

So is Newton taking people from thier list? That are certified?

If so, that brings my other question into play. Why have town prefrences when all I have to do is goto HRD and switch prefrences.

It should be regional. Western, Metro Boston, NE and SE.

Don't mind me I'm just venting. :x


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## Dr.Magoo (May 2, 2002)

You need to get civil service status before you can be appointed. Example: Town Y appoints you off of their civil service list. Town Z is accepting laterals. You can lateral from Town Y to Town Z with the permission of both departments. If Town Y says no, you can only get on by taking another test and getting appointed from that list (just like a new employee). 

If I am mistaken, please correct me. This is my understanding.


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## Dr.Magoo (May 2, 2002)

*New Question*

How does the layoff list come into play during any of these laterals?[


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## CampusOfficer (Dec 29, 2002)

Thats the way I understand it as well.


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## ntvs (Jan 23, 2003)

ahh ok thank you.


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

ntvs,

Do not sweat it trying to understand Civil Service law. As one of the prior posts stated, it is political. Civil Service law is fluid. Fluid in the sense that even though a city or town accepts Civil Service, there are many laws that the individual city or town can circumvent through a vote by a Mayor, Board of Selectmen, etc. In Massachusetts, your certification does not do anything for you in a Civil Service community. Again, as a prior post stated, if it is a Civil Service community, you had to have taken the exam. Laterals apply to other Civil Service communities. As for preference and rankings...Yikes! There are divisions, to along with sub-divisions. "Pension Reform" v. Non-Pension Reform, Residency, Vets Preference, three (3) catagories of age requirements, the list goes on. I too, as a former Civil Service P.O. have become frustrated. My reserach skills are getting a work-out. I figure I'll be done with law school before I hold the Golden Fleece again. I'm already thinking of an angle just in Civil Service law. Just from the posts I read on here, I could have a bounty of clients! As for all of you still reading this post, I never intended on practicing law. I can't stand lawyers. I'm doing it for one, to protect myself from those other lawyer bastards. Secondly, even though I still want back in law enforcement, the reailty is I may not be able to. I may need it (J.D.) to put food on the table...and I will never go in as a defense attorney.


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## PATS246 (Jun 19, 2003)

Pat Rogers just came out with a book on Civil Service Law and Procedure. http://www.commonwealthpolice.net/book/civil.html

Maybe it helps to answer those Civil Service questions that everyone has. For example when you contact Civil Service and you get bounced around on the phone to ten different people and everyone has a different answer.


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