# Women being pulled over at night in rural area



## tazoez (Dec 9, 2005)

Ok, so my girlfriend brought up an intelligent question that I figured I would ask here for everyone's opinion. If you were talking to her about the following what would you tell her (or the women, what would you do).

Say your wife (or for women here, yourself while not in an LE position) was signaled to pull over late at night in a really rural section where there is poor lighting and hardly any houses and she is driving alone.

Would you tell her to signal the police that she is acknowledging that she is pulling over but to a safer place like a police station or shopping center, or would you tell her to pull over immediately.

The only reason this was brought up was that there was a segment done on one of the morning news show the other day and one of the women pulled over immediately in a rural area and was sexually assaulted by the wanna be cop. What one of the woman said on the show essentially said was that even though they knew that they could get into trouble because they were not stopping immediately, the risk of being assaulted was greater.

Thank you in advance and let the intelligent debate -- and / or flamming begin.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2007)

When I light you up in the mall parking lot, all I care about is that you don't "pull over" into a HP spot or the Fire Lane......... Other than that, I could care less if you drive circles around the Sears Auto Center all night... Sooner or later she'll run out of gas while I keep running on and on with my HYBRID !!! hahahaa


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## Tango (Nov 28, 2004)

Tough situation. Although rare, there are sicko whackers out there that pull women over and assault them. More than likely it would happen in a secluded area, as the one you described. The law is what it is, but I would have a bit more understanding if a female driver did this in a reasonable manner...reasonable being the key word


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## tazoez (Dec 9, 2005)

Ok Tango I'll add in what my G/F said she would do since you brought up the reasonable factor. 

1. Call police to see if it is legitamite (sp) LEO pulling her over.
2. If no cell signal (we have issues with that where we live), turn on dome light, hazards, slow down, and give officer a thumbs up sign (stating that she is aware of the LEO presence and acknowledging she will pull over).

I didn't want to make it known but a good friend of hers was sexually assaulted in California a few years back by a REAL Police Officer at night in a rural area like I described. That and the news segment is why she asked me how I would handle it. As you put it Tango, a tough situation. The law is the law but also look at it from the other point of view too. 

My final response was don't do anything wrong to get pulled over, however most of us know while that is a great theory, in reality it doesn't always happen like that.


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## Guest (Jun 1, 2007)

If it's a marked cruiser with a lightbar, the chances are infinitesimal that it's a whacker. If it's unmarked, all sorts of danger signs should go off. I've told my wife that if she's stopped by an unmarked vehicle, to roll down the window a couple of inches, and request a marked police vehicle respond to the scene. No reasonable cop will refuse that request from a woman with young children.

I also told her that if the "cop" tries to open the door after she requests a marked unit, just drive away, put on her hazard lights, and call 911 on her cell phone. Even if the cop is legit and just has a short fuse, no clerk-magistrate, judge, or jury is going to find against her.


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## Barbrady (Aug 5, 2004)

See Wolfman's post.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

1. don't break the law and you won't get stopped. (I think)
2. don't open the window all the way and make sure your doors are locked until you are confortable that it is a real cop.
3. educate her on the whackeristics of what a real cop looks like.


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## LTJMC (Apr 2, 2007)

pull over - dial local pd on cell phone and if need be hit the send button if the situation gets questionable


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## Tango (Nov 28, 2004)

Taz, I completely see if from your G/F's view, it's a tough call. If someone put their hazards on, domelight etc, I personally would be ok with that...once I realized why it was done. Other LEO may not be so understanding, but I would be. It's just another level of discretion. 

Delta, good point about the marked cruiser. Couple of issued though, other than a light bar, sometimes at night it is difficult to make out a marked vs unmarked. Also, MSP has a good amount of unmarked cruisers out on the road.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

On another note, being a reasonably attractive guy Im concerned about being molested by a female posing as a police officer...Would those precautions work for me? And where are the places I should go(I mean avoid) ...


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

94c said:


> 1. don't break the law and you won't get stopped. (I think)
> 2. don't open the window all the way and make sure your doors are locked until you are confortable that it is a real cop.
> 3. educate her on the whackeristics of what a real cop looks like.


1) I'm working impact 6p-2a tonight in a rural town, theres gonna be alot of drivers who "think" they're not breaking any laws, but are gonna get stopped anyway because of some minor (equipment) violation that will get me up to their car.

2) Ok I agree

3) Chances are...its not gonna be a "whacker" (wannabe cop) whos raping women, it's gonna be a rapist who uses the cop ruse to contact women.

A couple years ago I was operating a fully marked car w/lightbar, and I lit up a dark colored sedan (speeding) with tinted windows, Florida plates. She continued driving like I was invisible (21:30). After a few seconds, I hit the siren. Still drove on however not evading, slowing to about 30 in a 45. Once the siren went on steady, the driver began to pull over, then continued, then began to pull over again, only to continue. At this point Im calling it in assuming there is the requisite concealing of the drugs or weapons by the operator. I hit the car with spotlight and I am able to make out through the tinted windows that its a female operator and a child in the back seat. After crossing the next town line and pulling into a shopping plaza, she parks at the front of the grocery store and is looking back at me wondering when I am gonna stroll up to her window. Once I get some help, she comes out. Her excuse after all of this?? "I wasnt sure it was a real police car so I wanted to get somewhere safe." After a few minutes talking with her, I realize shes just stupid. A check of the car reveals nothing but a young child, and I release her with a V.

The moral of the story...theres alot of dumb people.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

I asked my former wife: she said that at the first sign of untoward behavior, she'd put two rounds of .45 ACP in his face and calmly drive away.

</IMG>


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## screamineagle (Jul 11, 2005)

I live in a VERY rural area, the on duty officer is the only one on duty. The town also has an explorer with nothing more than grill lights and a little light on top. I'm not gonna pull over ever . :mrgreen:


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## frapmpd24 (Sep 3, 2004)

In many of the towns in the western part of the state, which I am sure some would argue is outside of Rte. 495 and modern civilization, the majority of some towns are "rural". 

If I make a m/v stop in the west end of my town, it is a good 3 - 5 miles with no cell phone reception heading toward the center of town until there are any businesses with lit parking lots. More than likely one of my co-workers is getting a complimentary shirt for use of the spike strips if the vehicle is not stopping or making it real obvious (with flashers, etc...) the situation described above applies. 

From my experience, just because the vehicle is not racing away, does not mean it's a driver too afraid to stop. I, as I'm sure many others here as well, have had people failing to stop at high and low speeds. The low speed ones mostly OUI's.

For me, the discretion I would employ would certainly be situational based the operators actions: making a call to the PD/hazards on/etc. versus stopping on their terms. I have had it happen a couple times and in each case the driver called 911 from the cell right when the blues went on. A message was relayed through dispatch the next well lit business/area to immediately stop. They followed the instructions provided, end of story. 

I guess the best approach in the end is to: 1) Keep officer safety in mind first and foremost. If they are not stopping and no outward signs/signals, treat it as a fail to stop and 2) Once things are sorted out for those who may not have the common sense to call/signal, ask yourself "how would I want my mother/sister/wife treated?" And for not using common sense, I would certainly be upset at my mother or sisters, so an earful is coming at the minimum...


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## tazoez (Dec 9, 2005)

On a side note -- this was posted on the Massachusetts State Police website:

The Massachusetts State Police offer these safety tips when you are stopped by police:

*If you are unsure of the legitimacy of an officer in an unmarked vehicle trying to make a traffic stop, turn on your hazards lights and slowly proceed to a well lit area or location where there are other people present before you stop.*
If the person stopping you is not in uniform or is in a uniform that does not display a badge, ask for photo identification.
Call 911 on your cell phone if there is concern about the legitimacy of the person making the traffic stop.
Report suspicious traffic stops to the police.


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## lpwpd722 (Jun 13, 2006)

Look at the post "Fake Cops pull over Real Ones" As a woman, I don't know what I would do. There are several news articles and television shows that advocate for waiting until you are in a safe environment, calling 911 etc. But, I also work at a P.D. and wouldn't want to get in trouble for not pulling over.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2007)

lpwpd722 said:


> Look at the post "Fake Cops pull over Real Ones" As a woman, I don't know what I would do. There are several news articles and television shows that advocate for waiting until you are in a safe environment, calling 911 etc. But, I also work at a P.D. and wouldn't want to get in trouble for not pulling over.


As long as you make it clear you're not trying to flee and have acknowledged the officer (hazard lights), I can't think of any cop who would make a big stink about it.

Well, maybe one or two.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

Over the winter I remember there being an incident where an Acura with blue lights and wig-wags pulled a woman over on Rt 1. She pulled over but was suspicious and kept an eye out the rear-view. She noticed 3 individuals step out of the car and immediately drove off, while the Acura made a U-turn and sped off. She made her way to a parking lot, dialed 911 and notified the SP. 
She was able to stay safe by using her intuition and staying vigilant. She didn't need to waste everyone's time by driving miles and miles with the hazards on. 
I agree with Wolfman, pull over. If you're nervous, lock the door and keep the window up. Ask for badge/ID.. if none are provided drive off. If the vehicle tries to pull you over again dail 911. Chances are the car isn't going to stay behind you knowing you did (are going to) call the real POLICE and will speed away.


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

Wolfman said:


> How many cops would give the same leeway to a 20-year-old black male with cornrows and a do-rag who just kept roling slowly with his 4-ways on when signalled to stop?
> 
> There needs to be a level playing field. Until the law is changed, you get signalled, you stop, end of story. If you're concerned about your safety, only roll the window down a crack and know how to defend yourself. Unless you subscribe to the moonbat mantra that it's noble to be a victim.
> 
> Women are probably at much greater risk going to an ATM, shopping in a convenience store, or going on a blind date than getting stopped by a sex-crazed maniacal fake cop in the dark of night. But guess which one sells more newspapers?


Unbelieveable







Wolfman are you ever concerned for your safety when you are at work or making a vehicle stop, I would think yes, If so, then why would you deny the same to the citizens that you are sworn to protect. If you are a police officer I hope my Wife or Daughters never have the unfortunate opportunity of being signaled to stop by you in an unmarked vehicle on a rural stretch of road. You will need to exercise some patience as they will not be stopping until they reach a well lit populated area.



MM1799 said:


> Over the winter I remember there being an incident where an Acura with blue lights and wig-wags pulled a woman over on Rt 1. She pulled over but was suspicious and kept an eye out the rear-view. She noticed 3 individuals step out of the car and immediately drove off, while the Acura made a U-turn and sped off. She made her way to a parking lot, dialed 911 and notified the SP.
> She was able to stay safe by using her intuition and staying vigilant. She didn't need to waste everyone's time by driving miles and miles with the hazards on.
> I agree with Wolfman, pull over. If you're nervous, lock the door and keep the window up. Ask for badge/ID.. if none are provided drive off. If the vehicle tries to pull you over again dail 911. Chances are the car isn't going to stay behind you knowing you did (are going to) call the real POLICE and will speed away.


No such thing as a Fake Badge or Fake ID?


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

Wolfman said:


> How many cops would give the same leeway to a 20-year-old black male with cornrows and a do-rag who just kept roling slowly with his 4-ways on when signalled to stop?


Unless you wear night vision goggles, I seriously doubt you even know the gender of the people you stop at night.



Wolfman said:


> There needs to be a level playing field. Until the law is changed, you get signalled, you stop, end of story. If you're concerned about your safety, only roll the window down a crack and know how to defend yourself. Unless you subscribe to the moonbat mantra that it's noble to be a victim.


So, you disagree with the advice posted on the MSP website?



Wolfman said:


> Women are probably at much greater risk going to an ATM, shopping in a convenience store, or going on a blind date than getting stopped by a sex-crazed maniacal fake cop in the dark of night. But guess which one sells more newspapers?


Any cop that has a problem with a woman (especially with kids) taking steps to protect herself has some serious self-esteem issues. If my wife were ever arrested/cited for not immediately stopping for an unmarked vehicle, I'd make that cop look like an absolute fool in court, then he & I would have a very nice chat afterwards.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

Wolfman said:


> Now that the disclaimer is out of the way...I have spoken with police officers who say that when using takedowns, spotlights, and high beams at night, you can frequently see who is in the car. Using your argument however, how would one know if it was a female - or a 20-year old black male with cornrows and a do-rag? One thing the officer would know for sure, the person ain't stopping.


I don't drive an unmarked vehicle, and even if I did, we're prohibited from making traffic stops with them unless there is an immediate public safety emergency. Trust me....when I turn on the LED light bar, it looks like the final battle in Star Wars. There's no doubt it's a real police car.



Wolfman said:


> You are correct, I disagree 100%. They are advocating a direct violation of Massachusetts General Law, and while it is advice given no doubt with the best intentions, it is still unlawful to do anything except immediately pull to the right and stop upon being signalled by a police car (or upon the approach of *any* emergency vehicle whose warning devices are activated), marked or unmarked. No exceptions are in the law, and while the suggested actions may represent a defense to the violation it is by no means an excuse....and the cop who takes a round through the squash because the female felon he was stopping bought time to load a weapon or drive into a parking lot populated by her fellow gangbangers deserves less? Sorry, I doubt that any department issues crystal balls with a V book and a badge.


Are you for real? If I enforced every violation of the law I saw, I wouldn't make it 200 yards out of the police station parking lot before I was back inside on a report.

D-I-S-C-R-E-T-I-O-N



Wolfman said:


> If women are scared to drive at night, they can stay home. If they expect special treatment because they have a vagina, they are mistaken. If an officr is giving different or preferential treatment because a motorist is phallically challenged, he is wrong.


Barefoot and pregnant, right buddy? 



Wolfman said:


> Why can't a male use the argument that he felt he may have been about to be robbed? Why can't a black guy say he felt he was going to be profiled and tuned up? It is incumbent on the officer to select a safe place to light up the vehicle, and then there is *no* excuse for the car not to pull over.


If someone I was attempting to stop with an unmarked vehicle activated their hazard lights then called 911, it wouldn't matter what their gender or race is. If they said "Sorry officer, I've seen too many stories of fake police officers and I got scared", I wouldn't treat them any differently. As I mentioned before, one of our off-duty GUYS was stopped by a fake cop who had a very real 9mm in his waistband. Bullets work against young black males with cornrows, trust me.



Wolfman said:


> Can someone find statistics pointing towards the number of sexual assaults against women and see where in the scale "Being pulled over by a fake cop" is positioned? My guess it would be somewhere between "groped in a library" and "abducted by space aliens."


I'll get to work on that if you start researching the number of cops who got shot on traffic stops by people who activated their hazard lights, called 911 on their cell phone to ask the legitimacy of the officer, then stopped in a well-lit/populated area.


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

why do the letters "c m p s a" keep poping in to my head when i read this post?


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2007)

RodneyFarva said:


> why do the letters "c m p s a" keep poping in to my head when i read this post?


Careful....you might get named in the lawsuit.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

You can keep yourself safe while pulling over immediately. Everyone has intuition, use it. Something doesn't feel right? Ask for badge/ID. Still not convinced? Either ask for another cruiser to respond or tell the officer _at the point after you are stopped_ you would like to go to a populated area. If the officer didn't oblige, drive off and call 911.

I wouldn't ever penalize someone for following those MSP guidelines but I personally think that you can go about it a much safer way for yourself and the officer.


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## OutOfManyOne (Mar 2, 2006)

I drive an unmarked traffic car but it lights up like a christmas tree and I am always in uniform during stops. They'll have a hell of a hard time saying they didnt think my cruiser was a police vehicle with 40 different LEDs on it with police plates and procupine lojack antennas on it.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

dcs2244 said:


> I asked my former wife: she said that at the first sign of untoward behavior, she'd put two rounds of .45 ACP in his face and calmly drive away.
> 
> </IMG>


'Nuff said.

That having been said, once the lemming stops "at a safe place": *FULL BOAT GIG.* No {fight club}. Period. Mommy and Junior are safe: pay the fine and pay the insurance surcharges. Or train your PIG (see above). Period. And no, I do not "care" about your baby-momma or whelp. The law is the law and discretion is discretion: fail to stop when signalled: no discretion...only LAW.

Sorry, ladies: "baby-daddy or whelp" above, as well.  
</IMG></IMG>


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## OutOfManyOne (Mar 2, 2006)

Sorry Delta, no discretion for fail to stop for PO.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2007)

OutOfManyOne said:


> Sorry Delta, no discretion for fail to stop for PO.


Get over yourself....taking safety precautions isn't a threat to your authority or manhood. Anyone who takes those precautions and is cited needs only to print out the safety tips from the MSP website, and away the ticket goes. If you want to waste your time and piss-off the public, go for it.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

*Police impersonators preying with ease*

(By Michael Levenson, Globe Staff)

Their tools -- blue lights, badges, batons -- are easier than ever to buy on the Internet, law enforcement officials say. And their methods are frighteningly effective. Police say it takes very little to persuade motorists and others to obey commands from someone they believe is a police officer.








Safety tips for people who are stopped by police


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

kwflatbed said:


> Safety tips for people who are stopped by police


That's fine, Harry: when they feel it is safe to pull over, there will be no warning. Just a money gig. Regardless of who they are.

Additionally, they had better follow those instructions *to. the. letter. *Failure to do so will result in being arrested for failure to stop. Period. No matter who they are or think they are.

Happy BOP.

</IMG>


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2007)

dcs2244 said:


> That's fine, Harry: when they feel it is safe to pull over, there will be no warning. Just a money gig. Regardless of who they are.
> 
> Additionally, they had better follow those instructions *to. the. letter. *Failure to do so will result in being arrested for failure to stop. Period. No matter who they are or think they are.
> 
> Happy BOP.


After all your years on the job, I'm honestly quite surprised you would take something like that personally.

I can just see the headlines..."Woman with newborn baby arrested for following safety tips on state police website".

We really are our own worst enemies when it comes to public relations.


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## tjdeputy (Jun 7, 2007)

Delta784 you could not have said it any better


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

I guess I shouldn't have been as "absolute" in writing that statement, but I was trying to make a point. One had better think before they attempt "not stopping". There can be abrupt consequences for not stopping, regardless of what some website advises. Further, I would suggest to you that suggestions like those posted at such websites are composed by those whose last fleeting contact with "the road" was just after their break-in period...when they made a "break" for the nearest non-field/non-uniform unit as soon as they were able.

There are few amongst us who would endure the "ever-lasting-gobstopper" pain in the a$$ of locking up a female, and more especially one with a whelp in tow. But a money gig? Bank on it. Two days wasted at court, babysitters and OT for the cop.

I've made a lot of stops over the years...and I've had a lot of people who didn't stop when signalled to do so, but continued and stopped when they wanted. When asked, they say "...I was looking for a safe place to pull over...". I am the sole arbiter of "safe places to pull over": that's why I signalled them to stop when I did. I've mostly (except for 2 years: semimarked) operated a fully marked car and have always been in full uniform: including the hat (that's right, kids...there was a time when the hat was required).

I can just see this leading to some bolshevik bastard pulling over when they want to just so they can "question your authority" and then cite the ramblings posted at the website. I assure you, such a case will almost certainly end in an arrest. What may be reasonable when a person is confronted with an unmarked car/plainclothes officer is certainly not reasonable when facing a fully marked car/ officer in uniform. But people will try it because they believe it's their "right"...just because it was posted on an "official" website. I can just imagine how much fun traffic stops will become in Cambridge, Amherst and Northampton.

Sorry to get everyones knickers in a twist, but I'll not afford the lemmings a chance to play "the victim" at our expense: there will be a price to pay. Period.
</IMG>


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

dcs2244 said:


> I guess I shouldn't have been as "absolute" in writing that statement, but I was trying to make a point. One had better think before they attempt "not stopping". There can be abrupt consequences for not stopping, regardless of what some website advises. Further, I would suggest to you that suggestions like those posted at such websites are composed by those whose last fleeting contact with "the road" was just after their break-in period...when they made a "break" for the nearest non-field/non-uniform unit as soon as they were able.
> 
> There are few amongst us who would endure the "ever-lasting-gobstopper" pain in the a$$ of locking up a female, and more especially one with a whelp in tow. But a money gig? Bank on it. Two days wasted at court, babysitters and OT for the cop.
> 
> ...


The argument is not about stopping for Marked Cruisers and it is not about "You" deciding that a desolate stretch of road at midnight is the best place to pullover for an "unmarked" cruiser. It is all about safety, could be yours or could be a lone female.

Descretion is the better part of stupidity, and your comments about arresting people or issuing a ticket are plain stupid, tie it together with your comment about court time and $ in your pocket........That is plain extortion of the public.


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## MM1799 (Sep 14, 2006)

For the record "we" do decide what is safe (radio, light, etc) place to pull someone over. I drive a greybird. When I light you up; pull over. To reiterate what I've said take safety precautions then (see above). 

If you have some 1980 buick with a flashing blue light and some guy in a hawaiian shirt.. that's different.


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## Guest (Jul 14, 2007)

dcs2244 said:


> I can just see this leading to some bolshevik bastard pulling over when they want to just so they can "question your authority" and then cite the ramblings posted at the website. I assure you, such a case will almost certainly end in an arrest. What may be reasonable when a person is confronted with an unmarked car/plainclothes officer is certainly not reasonable when facing a fully marked car/ officer in uniform. But people will try it because they believe it's their "right"...just because it was posted on an "official" website. I can just imagine how much fun traffic stops will become in Cambridge, Amherst and Northampton.


It really seems like you're more pissed-off about possibly having your authority questioned than anything else. Any cop with half a brain can tell the difference between an ACLU troublemaker driving the latest trendy hybrid and the frazzled mother driving a Honda Odyssey.

If I stop, as you say, a bolshevik bastard who started quoting his "right" to stop when he felt safe, he's getting the bonus package. However, do you honestly think that's warranted when it's a woman with young kids in the car who immediately apologizes and explains she was concerned for her and her children's safety?

As I said before, we're our own worst enemies when it comes to public relations. If more cops didn't perceive every little thing as a questioning of their authority/manhood, we'd have a lot less trouble overall.


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## Mitpo62 (Jan 13, 2004)

Must I write this again............*compassion, common sense, and a sense of humor. *


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Delta784 said:


> If I stop, as you say, a bolshevik bastard who started quoting his "right" to stop when he felt safe, he's getting the bonus package. However, do you honestly think that's warranted when it's a woman with young kids in the car who immediately apologizes and explains she was concerned for her and her children's safety?


Delta, I think my post made it clear...maybe not in so many words...that my intent is not to target "mommies with babies"...but should the event occur, then yes, gig and goto court and have it adjudicated by a judge. Nobody knows what they are stopping: Honda Odyssey or whatever...it could be anything, regardless of who is driving the car and the number of kids in said car.



ghostrider said:


> The argument is not about stopping for Marked Cruisers and it is not about "You" deciding that a desolate stretch of road at midnight is the best place to pullover for an "unmarked" cruiser.


Ghost, good point about the "marked cruiser"...I did not make that distinction when I read the article: we understand what we WANT to understand. My mistake and I apologize for sounding off and winding everyone up.

However, I did not mention anything about "desolate stretches of road at midnight"...nor did I posit the cruiser as being unmarked (which the post addresses).

As far as "extorting" the public: No. They must pay for their transgressions. If you choose to "relax" because it is a woman with children in a mini van, that is your deal. I pray that we won't have to travel to your funeral. I choose to be a sceptic...women/children/mini van: terrorist, drug mule, innocents or bank robbers...could be anything.

And, no, I don't write gigs for court time: I mentioned that to make the point that the police do not "lose". Regardless of the court decision, it's a win for the cop...hence my suggestion that one think carefully about not stopping.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

dcs2244 said:


> As far as "extorting" the public: No. They must pay for their transgressions. If you choose to "relax" because it is a woman with children in a mini van, that is your deal. I pray that we won't have to travel to your funeral. I choose to be a sceptic...women/children/mini van: terrorist, drug mule, innocents or bank robbers...could be anything.


Who said anything about relaxing? If anything, I'm more cautious when someone doesn't immediately stop. I just withold my final decision until I see the totality of the circumstances. As I said, if it's someone itching to throw their "right" in my face, or a carload of punk kids who are obviously busting my balls, then their tread-depth is getting checked in addition to the original violation.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...I don't believe a woman by herself (or with kids) taking steps to insure her safety is a "transgression" that must be paid for.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

I have to agree with Delta on pretty much everything. Discretion is huge in our business. If you don't use it, then you are our own worst enemy. Not everyone has to be cited. Be honest with yourself, if that lone woman being pulled over by an unmarked car on a lonely stretch of road were your mother or daughter, wouldn't you want her to be safe? If the official publication of the Massachusetts State Police, are telling women to use discretion, then maybe we as police officers should be doing the same thing.

I agree, warning bells should be going off if the car doesn't stop right away. For those of you who are thinking that the female or the male black with corn rows are loading a handgun while they continue to drive and will shoot you as you walk up on them... Why are you walking up on a car where you can't see the person's hands in the first place? If you've got concerns about the occupants inside a car, especially after they haven't stopped right away, then either have everyone show their hands prior to walking up on the car, or, have the driver step out and meet you on the sidewalk. These are just basic traffic stop tactics.

We stop cars full of Bloods, Crips, MS-13, 18th Street, etc, all the time. If we feel somethings wrong, then appropriate measures are taken. I guarantee you these people are much more of a threat than that lone woman in the car at night but we can still use discretion. 

I guess some of you will take issue with me too as you have with Delta so feel free to have at it!


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## JF5 (Aug 23, 2005)

The one thing that someone not pulling over right away does that will benefit a Police Officer is buy some time for a backup unit or 3.

Yes it does make the adrenaline pump and BP shoot up a few points but having that extra unit or two respond with you( providing the availability) will solidify the whole "safety in number concept"

I'll tell you right now, if my wife doesn't feel safe pulling over especially with my kids in the car then she will do what is needed. If she runs into an idiot with a power trip that feels he/she needs to get infuriated over "lack of compliance" in light of what has recently transpired in the news then so be it. Better safe than sorry.

I just hope ( as Delta mentioned) that the officer(s) will make the correct assessment of the situation.

I sincerly hope that a female family member of yours don't run into someone like you in this type of instance. If they caught you on a bad night...wow! I would only hope that all they get is a violation.

You are tough man!



Wolfman said:


> *I have never said I stopped anyone at night, nor have I represented myself as being affiliated with a partuicular agency. I am a TV repairman.* Now that the disclaimer is out of the way...I have spoken with police officers who say that when using takedowns, spotlights, and high beams at night, you can frequently see who is in the car. Using your argument however, how would one know if it was a female - or a 20-year old black male with cornrows and a do-rag? One thing the officer would know for sure, the person ain't stopping.
> You are correct, I disagree 100%. They are advocating a direct violation of Massachusetts General Law, and while it is advice given no doubt with the best intentions, it is still unlawful to do anything except immediately pull to the right and stop upon being signalled by a police car (or upon the approach of *any* emergency vehicle whose warning devices are activated), marked or unmarked. No exceptions are in the law, and while the suggested actions may represent a defense to the violation it is by no means an excuse....and the cop who takes a round through the squash because the female felon he was stopping bought time to load a weapon or drive into a parking lot populated by her fellow gangbangers deserves less? Sorry, I doubt that any department issues crystal balls with a V book and a badge. If women are scared to drive at night, they can stay home. If they expect special treatment because they have a vagina, they are mistaken. If an officr is giving different or preferential treatment because a motorist is phallically challenged, he is wrong. Why can't a male use the argument that he felt he may have been about to be robbed? Why can't a black guy say he felt he was going to be profiled and tuned up? It is incumbent on the officer to select a safe place to light up the vehicle, and then there is *no* excuse for the car not to pull over.
> 
> Can someone find statistics pointing towards the number of sexual assaults against women and see where in the scale "Being pulled over by a fake cop" is positioned? My guess it would be somewhere between "groped in a library" and "abducted by space aliens."


Sounds like the word discretion isn't in your library.

It is either black or white with you.......or should I say white?



Delta784 said:


> Get over yourself....taking safety precautions isn't a threat to your authority or manhood. Anyone who takes those precautions and is cited needs only to print out the safety tips from the MSP website, and away the ticket goes. If you want to waste your time and piss-off the public, go for it.


Delta,

This is apparently an individual who doesn't see much overtime. Writing tickets that are going to get appealed will ensure his court time. He should at the very least be investigated.


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## Guest (Jul 15, 2007)

Wolfman said:


> Is it still discretion when someone else dictates when it shall be used?


How do you figure?

It's the officer's sole discretion as to what enforcement action is taken during a traffic stop. To decide ahead of time that a civil infraction is appropriate, without knowing any possible mitigating circumstances as to why the person didn't stop immediately, is just pig-headed and smacks of a power trip, IMO.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Delta,

This is apparently an individual who doesn't see much overtime. Writing tickets that are going to get appealed will ensure his court time. He should at the very least be investigated.

By all means, investigate me. I write more warnings than anything else...in fact, there is no overtime to be had...unless you get ticket appeals on your day off. I work days...when do you think they will schedule my hearings? Too, writing tickets to dead people doesn't result in much court time. Since they consume the lions share of my time, I guess I'm not writing many tickets that will result in "court time".

JF 5, thanks for dropping by and gracing us with your opinion, no doubt gleaned from several decades of experience in law enforcement. 

Look, this topic can be parsed to the enth degree, regardless of opinion and anyone can be shown to be wrong in a specific instance. This is the "what if" game..."What if your "great aunt" had testicles...would she be your "great uncle"?


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## spdawg0734 (Nov 25, 2004)

Not to belittle the subject but it is amazing how paralized people get over one event. I may be wrong, but this istance is the first not counting the worcester incident that I have heard in several years. I think women stand a greater risk jogging in the charles or drinking and walking home at night or better yet getting into a cab intoxicated, and I believe they still do it without this awsome fear. If you are being stopped by an UNMARKED...(Marked ones do not count) and you choose to drive a few miles so be it.. if you get giged after so be it, if you are going to appeal the ticket you will do it weather the officer gave you the original violation or added the fail to stop. So what is the difference. If the judge/clerck is going to nulify he will do it anyway. If it was your family member, you would know what to do, so why the arguments. I drive an unmarked because of the unit I am in, for me to stop someone it takes a lot... I dont sweat any of the laws unless it has placed someone else in danger. The reason being is that I can understand how A some people would not recognize the car as a cruiser right away on top of which I have more important things to deal with. B if the person decides to run, the others have troble getting out of my way, so it is not worth it at all. But on the rare occasion, if for a REAL EMERGENCY I decide to stop you, the fail to stop would pail in comparison to the reason for which I will stop you, so I will follow you until you stop and take the stop from that point on as the individual that you are. Stay Safe


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2007)

dcs2244 said:


> Delta,
> 
> This is apparently an individual who doesn't see much overtime. Writing tickets that are going to get appealed will ensure his court time. He should at the very least be investigated.
> 
> By all means, investigate me. I write more warnings than anything else...in fact, there is no overtime to be had...unless you get ticket appeals on your day off. I work days...when do you think they will schedule my hearings? Too, writing tickets to dead people doesn't result in much court time. Since they consume the lions share of my time, I guess I'm not writing many tickets that will result in "court time".


I think you have me confused with someone else, I never mentioned OT.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Delta784 said:


> I think you have me confused with someone else, I never mentioned OT.


Delta, sorry...I did a copy quote of JF 5...The first part was to address him, the last paragraph was for everyone else...I addressed it to you as we had been posting back and forth...

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