# bypass question



## John J

Lets say a town has a certification list with 10 names on it. Can that town hire #8 and #9 without even interviewing numbers 1-7? 

Thanks

J


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## 94c

John J said:


> Lets say a town has a certification list with 10 names on it. Can that town hire #8 and #9 without even interviewing numbers 1-7?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> J


Only if they document a legitimate reason for bypassing 1-7

Or if all 9 have a tie score.


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## soup

It is a rule of three plus one for names called for hiring. If they are hiring 2 people, they will only get five names at a time. How would they hire #8 & 9 without interviewing #1-7? If they are hiring two, the first must come from #1-3 and the second from #2-5. Bypassing is not that easy. If people are tied in score, it is not a bypass.


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## 94c

soup said:


> How would they hire #8 & 9 without interviewing #1-7?


1-4 had bad BOPS
5,6,7 got fired from their last jobs for stealing.

(Or any combination thereof...)


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## soup

Possible, but not likely. If that is what happened in this case, then there is probably more to the story on the original post. Maybe 1-7 were interviewed before and were bypassed so they could be bypassed without an interview over and over again. If that is the case, the appointing authority can request that their names be forever removed.


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## Big.G

soup said:


> Possible, but not likely. If that is what happened in this case, then there is probably more to the story on the original post. Maybe 1-7 were interviewed before and were bypassed so they could be bypassed without an interview over and over again. If that is the case, the appointing authority can request that their names be forever removed.


I think 94c would know...


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## soup

resqjyw0 said:


> I think 94c would know...


Are you saying that 94c knows specifically about this case in question or just he would know in general. I'm not claiming to know more than someone else, but I have spent the last few years dealing with civil service issues and have learned alot. If a town requests a list, they tell civil service how many people they are hiring and a list is sent. If two are being hired, they get 5 names (at a time). The bypass process is not that easy (unless what 94c said was true in this particular case, bad bops & stealing) The appointing authority must provide "sound and sufficient reasons" for bypass. If someone feels that they were bypassed unfairly, they need to file an appeal. In this case, if 1-7 were bypassed without an interview and #8&9 were hired, there is more to this story. Please say so if you are aware of the whole story here.


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## Big.G

I'm saying in general.


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## 94c

soup said:


> Possible, but not likely. If that is what happened in this case, then there is probably more to the story on the original post. Maybe 1-7 were interviewed before and were bypassed so they could be bypassed without an interview over and over again. If that is the case, the appointing authority can request that their names be forever removed.


As a candidate you can defer twice before being removed from the list.

You can't get bypassed over and over again. Once you're bypassed you're gone. Unless of course you win an appeal with civil service. By that time the academy has already started and they would place you at the top of the list.

In order to bypass the candidate a second time, you would need an entirely different reason.

The only way the appointing authority can get your name removed forever is if you have declined the job offer twice.



soup said:


> Are you saying that 94c knows specifically about this case in question or just he would know in general. I'm not claiming to know more than someone else, but I have spent the last few years dealing with civil service issues and have learned alot. If a town requests a list, they tell civil service how many people they are hiring and a list is sent. If two are being hired, they get 5 names (at a time). The bypass process is not that easy (unless what 94c said was true in this particular case, bad bops & stealing) The appointing authority must provide "sound and sufficient reasons" for bypass. If someone feels that they were bypassed unfairly, they need to file an appeal. In this case, if 1-7 were bypassed without an interview and #8&9 were hired, there is more to this story. Please say so if you are aware of the whole story here.


Your post is right on target. We must have been typing at the same time when my computer froze.


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## Goose

They could have pulled a language list instead of the regular list...


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## John J

In this case there are actually nine names on the list on the list. I was trying to be vague because you never know who is reading this, but oh well here goes. 1-3 are vets, 4 got a score of 10, and 5-9 are tied with a score of nine. The department collected apps and background packets from all nine. They then hired two people from the 5-9 group and 1-4 are in the dark. I was just looking for some insight as to what #4 could do in this situation.



soup said:


> The appointing authority must provide "sound and sufficient reasons" for bypass. If someone feels that they were bypassed unfairly, they need to file an appeal.


How long does a person have to file an appeal. This particular department will be hiring three more in the next year. Poor old #4 does not want to rock the boat BUT he dosen't want to get screwed either.


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## soxrock75

John J said:


> In this case there are actually nine names on the list on the list. I was trying to be vague because you never know who is reading this, but oh well here goes. 1-3 are vets, 4 got a score of 10, and 5-9 are tied with a score of nine. The department collected apps and background packets from all nine. They then hired two people from the 5-9 group and 1-4 are in the dark. I was just looking for some insight as to what #4 could do in this situation.
> 
> How long does a person have to file an appeal. This particular department will be hiring three more in the next year. Poor old #4 does not want to rock the boat BUT he dosen't want to get screwed either.


Are 1-4 on active duty or about to be deployed? Perhaps they withdrew because they might be getting sent overseas soon? Just a thought......


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## soup

How long does a person have to file an appeal. This particular department will be hiring three more in the next year. Poor old #4 does not want to rock the boat BUT he dosen't want to get screwed either.[/quote]

NEWSFLASH.....................#4 ALREADY GOT SCREWED.

He needs to file asap if the other two have been hired, I don't know the exact time frame he has to do it in, but the sooner the better. There could be other circumstances though, like the previous poster said. If #1-4 are going to be activated soon, that may not be a reason for bypass or not accepting. I can't see why 1-4 are in the dark. They need to give a reason and once they give a reason they own it. They cannot change it as they go along. They should ask the appointing authority and then ask Civil Service what reason was given. At some point an attorney that is familiar with Civil Service appeals should be called.


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## soxrock75

Getting deployed or called up for active duty cannot be reasons for a bypass as, I believe, it is against the law. What I was referring to was that maybe the vets on the list voluntarily withdrew their names so as not to "inconvenience" the town by tying up a slot when they might get shipped out during the academy. I am sure once they return, they will get on...........


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## okie317

I know of a similar situation were 1-5 are vets and #5 never even got an interview or a bypass just a "you are not being considered at this time letter". Then come to find out number 6 had medical issues but number 7-10 got hired then they skipped down a few more to a relative of a current officer. So because #5 wasn't officially bypassed what would be the appropriate course of action? Oh and I have just heard that someone else who was skipped over to get to the relative is filing an appeal.


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## Officer Dunngeon

John J said:


> How long does a person have to file an appeal. This particular department will be hiring three more in the next year. Poor old #4 does not want to rock the boat BUT he dosen't want to get screwed either.


You have 60 days from the date of the bypass notification from Civil Service to file an appeal.

ALWAYS file an appeal if you are bypassed.


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## emerlad

Side note:
"rocking out with your glock out"
Interesting......
Didn't the alleged murder engineer guy have that plastered all over his my space page...
Nothing like associating yourself with that.....


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## CJIS

A bunch of people will be pissed when the new list that will be established from the test in June screws up all sorts of things. 

No matter how you slice it MA civil service has advantages, disadvantages and flaws.


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## soxrock75

emerlad said:


> Side note:
> "rocking out with your glock out"
> Interesting......
> Didn't the alleged murder engineer guy have that plastered all over his my space page...
> Nothing like associating yourself with that.....


What? That has been on my signature line since 2005 or so and I actually took it from "American Wedding" where Stiffler says he is "Gonna Rock out with his C**K out" and switched it up a little. Get a life..........


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## Guest

emerlad said:


> Side note:
> "rocking out with your glock out"
> Interesting......
> Didn't the alleged murder engineer guy have that plastered all over his my space page...
> Nothing like associating yourself with that.....


Yes.....just because a mentally unstable engineer murdered his wife, those mere words will now cause otherwise sane individuals to go on completely random murder sprees.


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## misconceived

Delta784 said:


> Yes.....just because a mentally unstable engineer murdered his wife, those mere words will now cause otherwise sane individuals to go on completely random murder sprees.


SOT?


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## emerlad

Who better than me to look out for those sane individuals!


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## emerlad

By the way, your darn right, you most definitely had to give me that explanation.
Stiffy.


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## soxrock75

emerlad said:


> By the way, your darn right, you most definitely had to give me that explanation.
> Stiffy.


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## Boston24

soxrock75 said:


> Are 1-4 on active duty or about to be deployed? Perhaps they withdrew because they might be getting sent overseas soon? Just a thought......


This is true as this was the reason I had to defer in my process. But the Det. said that when another class comes out, those that deferred, like myself, would receive another card and pick up where the process left off dealing with the background invest. I also heard that there is a class that's going in Nov. and another next June. They are suppose to be sending cards for the Nov. class during the summer.


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## mikeyv7712

Boston24 said:


> This is true as this was the reason I had to defer in my process. But the Det. said that when another class comes out, those that deferred, like myself, would receive another card and pick up where the process left off dealing with the background invest. I also heard that there is a class that's going in Nov. and another next June. They are suppose to be sending cards for the Nov. class during the summer.


Did the Det. tell you about the fall class?
I keep hearing there is one too


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## Boston24

mikeyv7712 said:


> Did the Det. tell you about the fall class?
> I keep hearing there is one too


My Det. didnt, but a friend of mine who took their pt test yesterday, and unfortunately did not pass, was told by their Det. that they would receive another card in the summer for the upcoming Nov. class, which is when I assume I will get another as well...hopefully.


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## rigrig22

Question to all Mass Civil Service experts. I was tied for 1st in my town for the Police and my town is appointing 8 guys from the list so they went through interviews and medical and everything and I made it through the whole process. Myself and one other guy who I was tied with are the only two Vets the other 6 are non vets that have residency in the town. Over the next two years all of us are supposed to go to the academy as the openings on the force become available the first 2 will be attending the academy in Sept. I was recently told that I was to be appointed somewhere towards the end of the list so 5 non vets will be appointed before me. I have no problem with the other Vet being appointed before me but my question is, is it legal for them to appoint these other guys before me. No offence to these guys but they are just kids that went to college and have a little political pull in the town, little to no LE experience at all and not a single arrest between all of them. As where I did everything I was told in order to be hired as a Mass Cop I went in the military for LE, I served overseas, and now I am a federal police officer. Do I have to grin and bear this or can I fight the decision?


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## 7MPOC

If they hired all of you then they can pick and choose who and when they send guys to the academy. More info could be helpful in trying to answer your question.


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## wpd518

_I was tied for 1st in my town for the Police and my town is appointing 8 guys from the list_ 

The Veterans Points got you to this point of the list. The appointing authority can pick whoever he or she wants from the tied group. It is not considered a bypass if all 8 are actually tied. They can also not even appoint you if there are "background issues". Good Luck.


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