# Go North?



## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

A police officer in my town who had come over for an unrelated incident essentially jumped out of his shoes when I mentioned I was interested in law enforcement to say it basically sucks in MA. He said the municipal cops all deal with shit administration, DA's drop charges everywhere, morale is low, and he told a recounting of a story where he arrested a guy for his 5th OUI and they got let off by the prosecutor. He did say, though, that state jobs (particularly with details) are good to look for, like trial security. This was also entirely unsolicited, so it seems like some real truth.

So here's my question: would you recommend I look for a job around here or flee north? I'm not particularly sure where to start off. Campus? Hospital? There's a couple jobs like that around here but I'd rather just be on the streets. I heard through the grapevine things aren't so awful in Vermont/NH/Maine, but I'm not 100% on it. I've also looked into some of the county sheriff jobs just to get my foot in the door, but looking through the forum history, I've heard very terrible things.

Also, my old question got answered - it wasn't a commitment. So I should be good.


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Anywhere but Mass. Yeah, the pay is good IF you can get on, but your chances are so much better anywhere else. Go south, west...somewhat north, whatever.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Go south or west, that’s your best option.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Try your luck around here. If nothing happens then look out of state.

Do it while you're young.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

What do you folks think about the reserve/intermittent academies? Useful at all? I like the sound of easing into things, but I'm not so sure about a return on investment.


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## Drebbin (May 1, 2015)

Don't let other people determine your future. Make a decision on what you want to do and then take the steps to do it. 

I have worked in law enforcement both in Massachusetts and out of state. You have a better chance of getting on the job outside of Massachusetts.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Drebbin said:


> Don't let other people determine your future. Make a decision on what you want to do and then take the steps to do it.
> 
> I have worked in law enforcement both in Massachusetts and out of state. You have a better chance of getting on the job outside of Massachusetts.


This is good advice ^^^^^


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

questionguy27 said:


> What do you folks think about the reserve/intermittent academies? Useful at all? I like the sound of easing into things, but I'm not so sure about a return on investment.


They are beginning to become somewhat controversial........
They are getting expensive and longer in duration, for absolutely NO guarantee of anything in return. We are ALL required to attend the same in-service now, but if you don't have an active Reserve or P/I job now or out the gate, it doesn't matter all that much. There are a lot of self-sponsored grads of MPOC's floating around out there again. If anybody can, They should get FT MPOC or GET out of Dodge!


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

If you stick around here you'll basically have a 10 year window ( or less depeding on age ) to make it happen. Age 32 comes quick.

Move to Boston, get the residency, take the test . Check off the box for State Police ( start running ) 

Explore any possibilities up north .The key is to be proactive.

It's not a bad idea to go work at the jail . Steady paycheck , good experience, etc. The trick is not to get stuck there.

Once the wife and kids come along "You shall remain here" 

On the other hand if you take the test, come up short and then head out of town probably have a pretty good chance of getting on with a department somewhere else.

And if none of it works out don't forget the trades.

If I had to do it all over again would have been a plumber


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

Msp went down I think to 88 on the cs test scores when letters went out for the 85th. I heard they only got a 50% response rate back, so it’s not as hard as it was a few years ago to get hired. My former local Pd is constantly looking for people, and run through the entire CS list to do so, sending letters to dvets from out of town. I know a lot of towns are in the same boat. I was talking to a buddy who works for Plymouth pd he said they are struggling to find people and their numbers are down. Jobs are out there, get as much info as you can, and come up with a good game plan to either self sponsor with jobs in mind, or move to a muni that hires a lot and is CS if your a non vet. I would get the full time academy cert if your going to do it, that will give you a lot more opportunities for towns and colleges. It’s a lot of luck and timing, especially with msp, taking the CS test, scoring well enough, and having whoever your looking at to hire you.


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## kdk240 (Nov 7, 2002)

Take all the advice your given here and make your decision based on what's best for you,.I always say get out of n.e. if you want it bad enough.
That said if you want to stay in n.e. (why would you if you could go). Alot of good options exist just a stones throw away in n.h. I know a kid on nashua they are always running a test, says its a good dept. Keeps really Busy, made 90k his 1st year on and still lives in mass w/mom and dad, no residency req. 
NHSP is hiring maybe even vtsp. 
If you go south try Orange county fla. Have a guy from my old dept. Who left to go there, makes $$$ with ot and details and a good base pay. But if I had to really do it all over I'd follow what my wife tells me all the time, I should have been an electrician or a plumber. .


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## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

Vermont is looking to hire numerous law enforcement positions


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

And that's the great thing about masscops.

There's contacts here for Vermont, LAPD , NYPD, down south, etc. You can always p.m. people .

I'm sure they'll be happy to help


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## HuskyH-2 (Nov 16, 2008)

Danusmc0321 said:


> Msp went down I think to 88 on the cs test scores when letters went out for the 85th. I heard they only got a 50% response rate back, so it's not as hard as it was a few years ago to get hired. My former local Pd is constantly looking for people, and run through the entire CS list to do so, sending letters to dvets from out of town. I know a lot of towns are in the same boat. I was talking to a buddy who works for Plymouth pd he said they are struggling to find people and their numbers are down. Jobs are out there, get as much info as you can, and come up with a good game plan to either self sponsor with jobs in mind, or move to a muni that hires a lot and is CS if your a non vet. I would get the full time academy cert if your going to do it, that will give you a lot more opportunities for towns and colleges. It's a lot of luck and timing, especially with msp, taking the CS test, scoring well enough, and having whoever your looking at to hire you.


Going to echo this sentiment. If you want to get on in MA, this is the time.

10 years ago it didn't matter what you scored because of the lay-off list. When that was finally exhausted, towns just weren't hiring due to budgets etc. Quinn was jettisoned, yet people still wanted the job.

Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Economy is better allowing hiring and being police isn't seen as desirable, post Ferguson and BLM.

Young guys I work with are getting cards and turning them down, only to get another card a few months later. Guys literally turning down transit and state to wait for Boston, etc. When I was their age, that would have been pure insanity.

Guys aren't showing up to start the process and departments are dipping down lower then ever, to get bodies. Some even having to go to the master list, after exhausting the residents. I know a Non vet who got a card from Transit. when I was looking to get on, that was unheard of.

Point being, if you want to work in MA, outside of background/medical issues, you can get on. I don't think there's much pressure to look elsewhere anymore. So if being a cop here is what you want, stick with it. If it doesn't mean that much to you, working in a better "climate" might be worth the travel. Good luck matching the money, though

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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

HuskyH-2 said:


> If it doesn't mean that much to you, working in a better "climate" might be worth the travel. Good luck matching the money, though


Lots of places around the country have the same salary as MA and more. San Jose PD starts off new hires at 102,000 dollars, base salary. I don't know of any Dept in MA that has a starting base salary of 102,000.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

I appreciate all of the advice so far. Big help, lot of experience here to work with. Trades is my fallback plan, if not that maybe I'll transfer to a 4 year school and try becoming a psychiatrist. I'm a decent enough speaker to people.

I know people out in the Bay Area. SF pays 110k starting out. But the cost of living is so bad that even that is barely enough for a one bedroom apartment. Plus the environment - trading MA for a spot like Berkeley or Oakland isn't really a big improvement. There's a couple news stories of dudes commuting or flying in and living in trailers outside of the police station in San Jose. Not that bad of a gig to be honest if you're living somewhere that costs nothing.



HuskyH-2 said:


> Point being, if you want to work in MA, outside of background/medical issues, you can get on. I don't think there's much pressure to look elsewhere anymore. So if being a cop here is what you want, stick with it. If it doesn't mean that much to you, working in a better "climate" might be worth the travel. Good luck matching the money, though


To be frank, I have a little bit of a mental health history. I'm not a nutcase, though. I won't run into specifics, I've learned not to spill my guts like that. Some people here might recall an old post from two years ago in my post history - it wasn't a commitment and I was in middle school, not highschool.

Main point - I've talked to a few shrinks and run the psychotropic medicine circuit. I still take medicine, but I'm reducing dosage without any issues. I grew out of a lot of shit. I know a guy who has gotten on in MA for a big department with a history of depression, so I'm not explicitly deterred, but many departments and justifiably a lot of forum members probably are skeptical of anyone with a mental health history.

I know this isn't a job you get into where anxiety gets better, but I figure it's another challenge to confront. Anxiety doesn't mean shit to me, I conquered it. I've lost 60 pounds and I'm starting college. This is something I'm committed to trying to do, but I'll keep fallbacks in mind just in case it doesn't work. Either way that's about it for my background concerns.

My plan is most probably north if not MA. I don't care so much about money as being fulfilled and finding something I enjoy doing. Money brings fulfillment, but I'm not picky. I'm not coming in starry-eyed, though, and pretty much everything here has solidified my viewpoint.


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## HuskyH-2 (Nov 16, 2008)

Joel98 said:


> Lots of places around the country have the same salary as MA and more. San Jose PD starts off new hires at 102,000 dollars, base salary. I don't know of any Dept in MA that has a starting base salary of 102,000.


Joel I was responding to OPs question about traveling north to NH/ME/VT for a better political climate in regards to policing.

That's crazy money though. What's cost of living like?

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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

HuskyH-2 said:


> Joel I was responding to OPs question about traveling north to NH/ME/VT for a better political climate in regards to policing.
> 
> That's crazy money though. What's cost of living like?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's high LOL


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

HuskyH-2 said:


> That's crazy money though. What's cost of living like?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's ridiculous. The city council in places like SF/San Jose literally won't allow new apartments to be built so 110k a year is actually lower middle class at best.


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Joel98 said:


> It's high LOL


The MEDIAN price of a home in San Jose is 1 million dollars. So yeah!


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## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

You’ll get on if you want it enough. I did it with 0 family members or close friends in LE. I’ve said it multiple times here. Wake up early, shave, take a shower, wear a nice suit, lint roll it, get a folder with a few copy’s of your resume & a letter of intent, and then knock on PD doors between 9a-2p looking for a chiefs signature to the academy. I did, and it worked out. You just need to put some money away for it and give it an HONEST try. Not just take a Police / public safety exam and hope to get pushed though the process because you have a decent 12th grade education.

State, you just have to take the test, score good (88+ now?), and hope the timing is right for you. Either way, I’d you put an honest effort and you can truthfully say to the 7th Cheif that you tried 6 other before him/ her... they will most likely take you seriously.


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## oppisetter (Mar 27, 2019)

38bigblock said:


> You'll get on if you want it enough. I did it with 0 family members or close friends in LE. I've said it multiple times here. Wake up early, shave, take a shower, wear a nice suit, lint roll it, get a folder with a few copy's of your resume & a letter of intent, and then knock on PD doors between 9a-2p looking for a chiefs signature to the academy. I did, and it worked out. You just need to put some money away for it and give it an HONEST try. Not just take a Police / public safety exam and hope to get pushed though the process because you have a decent 12th grade education.
> 
> State, you just have to take the test, score good (88+ now?), and hope the timing is right for you. Either way, I'd you put an honest effort and you can truthfully say to the 7th Cheif that you tried 6 other before him/ her... they will most likely take you seriously.


This ^. If you really have an itch for LE, get in where you can how you can. FT PT or Aux, get in and once you're in (sworn in) you are in. Work your way up. If you start as a PT or Aux somewhere, dont screw it up like some tend do. Respect the Dept, respect the FT guys, listen to them, and observe/ adapt to the subculture. With it, depending where you are you will get the road experience/details/overall idea of working for a department. Then you can determine if its for you and where you wanna go.

If you want it, want it for the right reasons and dont give up!

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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Bloodhound said:


> The MEDIAN price of a home in San Jose is 1 million dollars. So yeah!


Cops Living In RVs Outside San Jose Police Department

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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

SF Bay Area: Median House $805K. Rent $2.5-6 k a month.


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## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

MSP Recruit - $14.75


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

38bigblock said:


> MSP Recruit - $14.75


I did the math on this at one point, They own you from 5am till 2000, with lights out at 2100, at 825 bi-weekly, it works out to about $5.40 and hour. I remember being told don't be afraid to file for public assistance if we needed to do so.


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## TheSnowman (Aug 29, 2017)

38bigblock said:


> MSP Recruit - $14.75


This is chump change academy money you're talking about. That number increases drastically once your finally trained and on the road correct?


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## 02136colonel (Jul 21, 2018)

TheSnowman said:


> This is chump change academy money you're talking about. That number increases drastically once your finally trained and on the road correct?


Yes, and significantly Collective Bargaining Agreements (Union Contracts)


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

TheSnowman said:


> This is chump change academy money you're talking about. That number increases drastically once your finally trained and on the road correct?


Depends upon who you blow.


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## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

You’ll definitely make it back with in your first year off FTO / break-in, but thats tough. It’s like the military, 18 hour days broken down by the hour comes out to the single digits!


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

OP, one thing I've learned in all my years applying for, and then working in law enforcement, is that it sucks trying to get hired everywhere. Every region I've either applied in or inquired about told me I should look elsewhere, because the hiring situation, and the job itself, sucked there. When I applied in New England, I was told to forget it and go down south or out west. If I applied or inquired about jobs out there, I was told forget it, the jobs were better in the Northeast. . Everyone thinks the grass is greener on the other side, but every police department in every part of the country either shares some of the same problems or comes with its own series of unique problems. Figure out where you'd be willing to live, what kind of department you think you could function in, and apply to said departments if you're qualified.



Danusmc0321 said:


> I did the math on this at one point, They own you from 5am till 2000, with lights out at 2100, at 825 bi-weekly, it works out to about $5.40 and hour. I remember being told don't be afraid to file for public assistance if we needed to do so.


That's still better than Rhode Island State Police: You're paid minimum wage AND you have to purchase all your equipment and uniforms, AND all the food they serve at the academy.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

That's still better than Rhode Island State Police: You're paid minimum wage AND you have to purchase all your equipment and uniforms, AND all the food they serve at the academy.[/QUOTE]

And...they wear the UGLIEST uniforms ever. And I wear Clownshoes.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

Not gonna worry too much about it right now, to be frank. I’m going to be in school for 2 years so things could easily swing one way or another, but I’ll keep everything here in mind. I like to plan ahead.

Anyways, anyone know what other academies could be “transferred” to MA? I’d like to just get a general idea of my options. You guys have been a great resource so far.

Also, if there’s any background guys in here - my post that got buried last page had a little bit about my “circumstance”. I don’t imagine it’ll be an issue but if you want to appraise me of your anonymous department’s standards when it comes to past counseling, that’d be ideal.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

Your psych issues are a major problem for an agency. Don’t bother coming out to CA, you won’t get hired, not in today’s climate. No one wants or will take that risk,


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

CCCSD said:


> Your psych issues are a major problem for an agency. Don't bother coming out to CA, you won't get hired, not in today's climate. No one wants or will take that risk,


I'm a little confused. From what I heard most of that is subjective. I'm not a psychopath, never hurt myself. I can possess a gun. I've heard a lot of cops themselves have been medicated. I'm not entitled to a job, that'd be real stupid, but it's a real kick in the balls to hold something from when I was a 14-15 years old against me unless I had some scars or a record to show for it. Even if I had a solid work record and ten years behind me? I'd get the rhetoric if I put a barrel in my mouth or threatened myself or other people.

I'm not going to say I'm clean of issues. I had some real rough times as a teen. I was brought to the hospital in middle school for mental health related issues. But I figure I've grown out of it. I lost 60 pounds over a 1 year period. I dropped all of my meds for the most part.

End of the day my opinion means dick anyways. But it's a little bit of a letdown.


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## oppisetter (Mar 27, 2019)

questionguy27 said:


> I'm a little confused. From what I read in the CA POST manual most of that is subjective - are you telling me departments themselves would say no? I'm not a psychopath, never hurt myself. I can possess a gun. I've heard a lot of cops themselves have been medicated. I'm not entitled to a job, that'd be real stupid, but it's a real kick in the balls to hold something from when I was a 14-15 years old against me unless I had some scars or a record to show for it. Even if I had a solid work record and ten years behind me? I'd get the rhetoric if I put a barrel in my mouth, but the only thing that's wrong with me is I worry about locking the doors a little bit more than other people. It's not like I made a conscious decision to commit a crime, and people in that position are hired on even with a record provided they're not felons. I'm not gonna bring up the stupid stuff that's happened in our state lately, those are isolated instances.
> 
> I've never really understood this position. All over the place people have a different answer for this - there was a dude on Reddit who said he got hired even with a suicide attempt on his wrap sheet, not that I'd personally go that far - that's a disaster in the making. Is it the stigma? A large number of my generation has been medicated at one point or another. That's no excuse for it, plenty of people do fine without it, but plenty of cops use it too.


Cops medicated AFTER they've been hired and on the job most likely. Either way, depends on a ton of circumstances. I'm sure if you keep trying and prove yourself, you're bound to land something.

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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

Here’s what you do...

Take all the info these guys have given you and start applying to auxiliary, reserve, or full time postings around here. Or decide to move elsewhere and try there.

You’re not going to figure out the answer to your background question here. Save it for a background investigation and see where it goes. That’s the only real answer you’re going to get. Unless you apply to a department that’s far away like Florida where they might conduct a remote background interview. Mental health is still a touchy subject to delve into.

Being able to carry a firearm doesn’t hurt but it also doesn’t guarantee you anything either.

If you get your foot in the door, even as a dispatcher, you can get to know the girls and guys in the department. That might be your best bet to dance around this question and tilt the scales in your favor. You had this issue growing up, but people know you for who you presently are and they feel it outweighs the risk. You’d be surprised how realistic and understanding higher ups are if you are straightforward and humble.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Oh believe me . They'll want to know what you did as a kid.

They'll want to know who your kindergarten teacher was ! 

The juvenile history will be a key component in the background check.

Unless . . . . You tick off the right box. Then they tend to overlook things.

Having the right connections is the other thing that can get you through the process.
Politics is a big part of government here in Massachusetts. 

Of course nowadays you're going to have to be a close friend of the family to get any juice.

As a caveat this is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions

They're like a-holes. Everyone's got one and they all stink 

Good luck !


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

questionguy27 said:


> I'm a little confused. From what I heard most of that is subjective. I'm not a psychopath, never hurt myself. I can possess a gun. I've heard a lot of cops themselves have been medicated. I'm not entitled to a job, that'd be real stupid, but it's a real kick in the balls to hold something from when I was a 14-15 years old against me unless I had some scars or a record to show for it. Even if I had a solid work record and ten years behind me? I'd get the rhetoric if I put a barrel in my mouth or threatened myself or other people.
> 
> I'm not going to say I'm clean of issues. I had some real rough times as a teen. I was brought to the hospital in middle school for mental health related issues. But I figure I've grown out of it. I lost 60 pounds over a 1 year period. I dropped all of my meds for the most part.
> 
> End of the day my opinion means dick anyways. But it's a little bit of a letdown.


I'll give you a ray of hope.

Having received treatment in the past, or even being on medication now, is not going to necessarily disqualify you from being a cop. I've been on medication for depression for years, and I got jobs in both corrections and police. I disclosed it both times, obviously, and both times I was given the thumbs up by the psychologist, who didn't feel it would be a problem. I've known countless other guys who got on the job with mental health histories. It is, thankfully, not as much of a taboo in law enforcement as it once was. 10 years ago, I would have told you to prepare for a major uphill battle, because that's where I was. But times have changed.

That said, while having a mental health history likely won't, in and of itself, kill your chances at law enforcement, I can't say it won't be a stumbling block at some departments. Also, the fact that you were hospitalized, even as a kid, is going to be looked at more closely than just someone who had outpatient treatment. There's a reason they do a psychological evaluation: Everyone has baggage, however great or small. Everyone has dealt with, or needs to deal with it, in one (healthy) way or another. The psychologist will have the job of determining whether or not your past issues are going to be an your ability to safely be a LEO.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

PG1911 said:


> I'll give you a ray of hope.
> 
> Having received treatment in the past, or even being on medication now, is not going to necessarily disqualify you from being a cop. I've been on medication for depression for years, and I got jobs in both corrections and police. I disclosed it both times, obviously, and both times I was given the thumbs up by the psychologist, who didn't feel it would be a problem. I've known countless other guys who got on the job with mental health histories. It is, thankfully, not as much of a taboo in law enforcement as it once was. 10 years ago, I would have told you to prepare for a major uphill battle, because that's where I was. But times have changed.
> 
> That said, while having a mental health history likely won't, in and of itself, kill your chances at law enforcement, I can't say it won't be a stumbling block at some departments. Also, the fact that you were hospitalized, even as a kid, is going to be looked at more closely than just someone who had outpatient treatment. There's a reason they do a psychological evaluation: Everyone has baggage, however great or small. Everyone has dealt with, or needs to deal with it, in one (healthy) way or another. The psychologist will have the job of determining whether or not your past issues are going to be an your ability to safely be a LEO.


Real big help. Key thing about the "hospitalization" in and of itself was I was never actually admitted to any sort of facility, they let me go from processing at the hospital after determining I was stable. I've been told it wouldn't even appear on a record. Maybe I'm wrong.

You guys have all been an excellent help. I appreciate the direction. I wish you all the best of luck in the field.


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## gm7988 (Jul 18, 2010)

I've been a cop up north in New Hampshire since 2012. 

I can tell you every agency up here is dying for cops and has a lot of trouble keeping them. Not different than any where else but I think New Hampshire struggles a little bit more because there's nothing to offer people up here. The heroin epidemic is worse than what you read about. In my opinion, no state tax = no rehab. I literally just found someone overdosing in a bush in my city downtown an hour ago.

I was told when I got hired "the grass is always greener at a different agency, the trick is to make your grass just as green." 

I tried to keep that mentality but New Hampshire winters suck, so my wife and I looking for a move south. I would never tell anyone not to do it, so follow your dreams. If it takes you up here, best of luck to you. With the candidate pool as small and awful as it is now, I think it's pretty easy to get hired just about any where.


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

gm7988 said:


> I've been a cop up north in New Hampshire since 2012.
> 
> I can tell you every agency up here is dying for cops and has a lot of trouble keeping them. Not different than any where else but I think New Hampshire struggles a little bit more because there's nothing to offer people up here. The heroin epidemic is worse than what you read about. In my opinion, no state tax = no rehab. I literally just found someone overdosing in a bush in my city downtown an hour ago.
> 
> ...


It's eas*ier* than it was 5-10 years ago, but still not easy. Jobs in general in every field, up to and including entry level jobs, are competitive. Also, a lot PDs are still a bit greedy, and they're as picky today with the smaller field of candidates as they were a decade ago when they had half as many openings and quadruple the applicants. Those that aren't as picky still have more qualified applicants than openings. We've gone from 500 applicants for a single position to 50 applicants for that job, but 50 to 1 odds are still not great.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

While we may be short, we look at things like this as the LIABILITY they are. Hire someone with a psych history, and when they step out of line, that’s all she wrote... Millions.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

CCCSD said:


> While we may be short, we look at things like this as the LIABILITY they are. Hire someone with a psych history, and when they step out of line, that's all she wrote... Millions.


This 100% ^^^^^^^^^^^^

In this day and age of 'metoo movement' and Ferguson and states like CA limiting police use of force, do you honestly believe police departments can afford the liability of hiring someone with a past mental issue that is discoverable when a lawyer sues the department???


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## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

questionguy27 said:


> I'm a little confused. From what I heard most of that is subjective. I'm not a psychopath, never hurt myself. I can possess a gun. I've heard a lot of cops themselves have been medicated. I'm not entitled to a job, that'd be real stupid, but it's a real kick in the balls to hold something from when I was a 14-15 years old against me unless I had some scars or a record to show for it. Even if I had a solid work record and ten years behind me? I'd get the rhetoric if I put a barrel in my mouth or threatened myself or other people.
> 
> I'm not going to say I'm clean of issues. I had some real rough times as a teen. I was brought to the hospital in middle school for mental health related issues. But I figure I've grown out of it. I lost 60 pounds over a 1 year period. I dropped all of my meds for the most part.
> 
> End of the day my opinion means dick anyways. But it's a little bit of a letdown.


Quick question. I see in your post your received treatment as a teen. If you were "involuntary " committed you cannot posses a firearm in MA. Unless a doctor signs off and a judge. I know because I had to deny a 70 something yr old guy for a commitment when he was 15 and 16. I didn't agree and tried helping him but the state will not issue.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

Treehouse413 said:


> Quick question. I see in your post your received treatment as a teen. If you were "involuntary " committed you cannot posses a firearm in MA. Unless a doctor signs off and a judge. I know because I had to deny a 70 something yr old guy for a commitment when he was 15 and 16. I didn't agree and tried helping him but the state will not issue.


It wasn't involuntary, and I wasn't committed - voluntary or otherwise. I was driven to the hospital where they then released me at processing. I was never formally brought into a facility or institutionalized, they just had me wait in the pediatric area until they could bring me to processing where they cut me loose. From what I read voluntary/involuntary requires some sort of adjudication. If it was involuntary, the courts are required to send you a letter saying you can't possess a firearm and need to appeal it. I had had been curious so I looked it up in the M.G.L. So I can legally possess a gun and I don't need to appeal anything. I checked with two different psych people and they both agreed this didn't even count as a commitment or hospitalization, just a mental health evaluation. But I was still brought to the hospital, so it's worth a lot of scrutiny either way.

As for the officers here saying it's a liability for departments to hire me, I can certainly recognize that, but it's also a liability for departments to hire people with criminal records in their past and crimes of moral turpitude, or a fucked up traffic record. It's obviously a different circumstance entirely than those other things and the stigma is clearly still there. My psychiatrist and therapist would both be willing to probably give testimony to my stability. I'm not claiming to be perfect. I didn't have trouble in high school just because of highschool, either - it wasn't like I was weak because of everyday shit, I lived with an abusive person who had a mental illness that made his mood swing every which way and I had a messy childhood. I get the perspective, though. I've heard cops come in with perfect mental health and come out messed up. I've heard war stories but it's an entirely different thing to experience it. I won't know how it'll go until I get on the job. I appreciate that side of the coin because it's something I'll probably hear in a theoretical job search.

I'm going to give it a shot either way and I've got fallbacks in mind. I can tell you Generation Z, from personal experience, is probably less willing to become LEOs - everyone my age doesn't even entertain the concept. It's a shame.


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## alonzo401 (Dec 1, 2018)

Treehouse413 said:


> Quick question. I see in your post your received treatment as a teen. If you were "involuntary " committed you cannot posses a firearm in MA. Unless a doctor signs off and a judge. I know because I had to deny a 70 something yr old guy for a commitment when he was 15 and 16. I didn't agree and tried helping him but the state will not issue.


Did he state that on his application or did you find out somehow? I find it hard to believe there would be paperwork available from thes 50s or 60s lying around that would prove John Doe was depressed for 2 weeks. If he told the truth about that and thats the only way you found out. That's honestly on him.


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## alonzo401 (Dec 1, 2018)

If you did find it I guess all those hardworking employees at places like the belchertown state school did a great job archiving records in between their long cigarette breaks and primary duty of beating the students.

I guess when they destroyed all the state hospitals and got rid of DMR (before everything went digital) they just moved the records to the Danvers State Hospital grounds for safekeeping


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

You are STILL taking meds for this. Don’t throw the “other people with criminal history” BS. That’s an agency decision, not yours. I explained WHY you have issues. Don’t like it? Too bad. That’s LIFE.


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## questionguy27 (Dec 24, 2017)

CCCSD said:


> You are STILL taking meds for this. Don't throw the "other people with criminal history" BS. That's an agency decision, not yours. I explained WHY you have issues. Don't like it? Too bad. That's LIFE.


You'll have to excuse my wording. Never said I didn't like it. Didn't mean to present my prior statements as an argument against what you said, I'm absolutely sure what you're saying rings true for departments. I just said I can appreciate it and I know very well it's not my decision either. I know full-well departments probably want to cover their own ass. This is the same stuff I'll more than likely hear from some departments, maybe most, if I go through the process. I was just explaining my thought process. In my mind, I'm thinking that I could get into a department if they hire other people with similar conditions, and some of the other posters here have given me some hope/guidance in that regard. If it's a liability for departments, understandable, and I'll do work in the meantime to prove my ability to handle the heat and get off meds. The adage "if you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen" applies. Wasn't a dig at anyone. If I can't get on, that sucks, but I've got backup plans in case things don't work out. I know I'll probably join a union or pursue a postgraduate degree.

Like I said, what you said still helps. I'm not looking for a specific answer here.


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## PG1911 (Jul 12, 2011)

Just apply where you're qualified. If you make it to the psych eval, be honest about what happened. What the psychologist determines is beyond your control. Mental health issues in your past are almost always going to be case by case, unless it's an auto DQ for involuntary commitment or something along those lines.

The general rule for backgrounds is this: If the same thing is a stumbling block over and over with every department, it's often a sign that police work is just not in the cards for you. If you keep failing the psych eval for this issue, you might want to consider a new career. But give it a shot. Arguing about what will hypothetically happen when you apply is not going change anything. Prove your naysayers wrong, or find out they're right. It's up to you.


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

If it’s what you said, and happened exactly like you said, I wouldn’t think it would be an issue. But if it gets brought up and instead of plainly telling the facts and circumstances you go in there and do the “I swear I’m sane guys, meet my phycologist and physiatrist, they can vouch for me”, that is probably not gonna help your cause.


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

The psych test back in the 1980's in Massachusetts for the department that hired me was... I don't recall. There was an older lady with a heavy accent that "interviewed" me during a civil service physical for less than five minutes. That's about all I recall.

Then in 2005 to get on the job in Mississippi I took the MMPI and had a half-hour chat with a licensed psychologist. 

Nowadays we put prospective hires through a 4-6 hour battery of tests and interviews. Our School of Psychology does it for us (for a fee!) and we made the change since they said this enhanced testing was now considered to be the minimum requirements in their field for proper testing of persons in law enforcement. 

They produce a 3 to 5 page single-spaced report with lots of comparisons to both "persons who are applying for law enforcement positions" and "persons currently holding law enforcement positions" (to the best of my memory that's the wording.)

So, depending on what processes are in place, your history might be placed in a broader context and compared to the broader population of those you are competing with, and those you are hoping to join. This could be good or bad, I'm not sure how to judge. Of course, you would have to reach the psych eval portion of the hiring process, which is one of the final steps since we have to pay for it!

Either way, your chances may be impacted by the method used to evaluate. Worth looking into. 

Good luck.


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