# the mentally ill in elderly housing



## boghopper (Jul 26, 2009)

Hi, guys. I am a civilian. I live in elderly/disabled housing in a town that it's best that I not name.
While I am a lefty (don't shot! don't shoot!) in most matters, I do have more normal attitudes in other things.
I have had to live in a building with two paranoid schizophrenics who (unhappily for me) have opted out psychoactive drugs. The first was a smallish but rather intense little woman who had the cruisers down here nearly every night with some imaginary crime (none of which had anything to do with me nor was I ever a suspect in). It was just attention-getting behavior and the local garda had to come. However, she did rob me (bad locks) and managed a B&E in which she sprayed WD40 all over the contents of my refrigerator. In addition to blanking out her name (that law I do understand) on the incident reports, the officers never even questioned her, due, I assume, to some monstrous adminstrative nightmare that might ensue if they did. But this did not just involve me, she was terrifying all the little old ladies who lived here. The police would say that it was the housing authority's problem and the housing authorty would say that it was a police problem. This Texas two-step had worn the woman down to where they stopped calling anyone, even about the hairiest incidents.
For brevity's sake, I'll just say that they finally got her out. Incidents went from 200-plus per year to zero.
However, my other jolly deranged (downstairs) neighbor is larger. He had a history of intimidating the females prior to my moving here. He likes to hammer together stuff he drags out of dumpsters and he likes to do it between 1:00 and 7:00 a.m. I finally got sick of this and complained to the housing authority. Nothing happened. I cited tenant law;no response. I was keeping this to myself.
About ten days ago a ran into one of the old gals (who I usually avoid because they will talk you to death) and she asked me how I was dealing with the death threats. Since he has howled these out at me personally in the early morning hours (I don't want to buy a $300 tape recorder--I pay rent) but I had stayed mum, I asked her how she knew about this.
Well. Turns out that she was talking about rather fully-formed and elaborate utterance which he had (I suppose) deliberately made in front of numerous gals. These appeared to meet the critera most generally accepted as forming an utterance: who he was going to kill (me), what he ws going to use (a gun). And he formed the utterance in front of persons who would reasonably be expected to relay it to me (which is was).
What really frightened the women was not the threat to me as much as when the gendarmes showed up, they questioned the person who had made the call, but literally avoided speaking to the people who had made the threat. They did report that the officers spoke with the Big Boy, but no one knows what was said. The people who had heard the threat kept waiting for the police to return but they didn't.
Now they are all hiding as this mook attempts to find out who ratted him out. It is disgraceful. The way this has worked out is that if if guy goes truly unpunished because he's wacky, this just emboldens him to doing even scarier things. I know very specifically that it's a bitch to evict a crazy tenant because I spoke with the lawyer who had done it before.
I have raised considerable hell about this so my application to housing in another rown mysteriously went from the bottom of the pile to the top. So I'm now a short-timer in this place.
The old women aren't. This is where they are doing to die and they are going to die afraid because once I leave, there will be the appearance that he drove me out. I suggested that I could get them a reporter, but they admitted they probably wouldn't talk to one, even under conditions of anonymity. If the eviction is is process, housing cannot in any way communicate this by law.
I really do have question to throw out for your opinion, but it took awhile because the condition is so circumstantial. The guy is certifiably non compos mentis his sister is his guardian. Since the police came 200 times a year to investigate missing matchbooks and doilies (on the grave on my mother), but were perceived as rather arrogant and unconcerned at the time (again, I was not aware of any of it) when a very grave matter arose, they are not likely to call again. Once I move, all the written complaint I have made are superfluous.
What, if anything, hamstrings the police? In the previous matter, I had suggested to the chief that they just send a bright female officer down a couple of days a month just to give the appearance of concern. No go.
The fact the I will shortly have no dog in the fight (me) does not change the fact that it's been botched to the point there they dislike the police more than the guy who is terrorizing them.
While the housing authority might (in its own self-interest) be trying to boot the guy, this could take years. Is there something that makes it too big a headache for a department? I know that the mental health "community" have vested interests in defending the mentally ill and they are tough to take on, but there have been real crimes committed by these two zanies and they were not investigated. I have the reports.
Is this a systemic problem for police officers dealing with the mentally ill?

Thanks.


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

"Is this a systemic problem for police officers dealing with the mentally ill?"

Since I do not have all of the facts of your case I will answer to my own experience in dealing with the mentally ill.

Their anti-social behavior draws them to public areas where others do not wish to play into how "their perception is reality." Unfortunately, it is a constant problem because when we lock them up for their threats to commit a crime, the courts release them due to the lack criminal intent resulting from their diminished capacity. However, when they are homeless, the judges like to put them away for the winter so they do not die of exposure. As an aside, over 40% of the prison population are comprised of the mentally ill, however, they are imprisoned since many of the mental hospitals in this state are over populated or closed. 
What bothers us most is the revolving door system and how low income housing is comprised of elderly, mentally ill, and welfare recipients with criminal records that could wallpaper your entire house. I firmly believe that the elderly should be a separate and far removed complex as it is like putting a pack of fox in the hen house and these situations are ALWAYS the result. Ultimately, there is little that we can do to effect permanent change without a fundamental budgetary restructure which would allow for the construction or reopening of mental hospitals.

I recommend that you continue to *courteously* contact police regarding the behaviors of your match loving neighbor, if only to have the incidents logged in dispatch for added credibility in your case to have him removed from the housing complex before he burns it down. Also, obtain his sisters contact information as she may be able to calm him or contact his Doctor who can file paperwork to have him removed to the hospital for observation.

Best of luck to you.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

In my experience, the housing authority really doesn't care, either about you and your concerns or ours. To this day, the bitch who literally created a riot in one of our "projects", enough to call in mutual aid from the next city over and the state police, still lives in the same apartment she did 5 years ago when she started this shit. While I sympathize with your frustration, if we have no pull to get someone bounced who threatened the lives and safety of officers and tenants, I highly doubt someone making "threats" of bodily harm is going to motivate eviction. Just my two cents based on experience.


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## MetrowestPD (Oct 21, 2008)

Boghopper,

I have a question to pose to you. What would you have the police do in your situations. They can't evict a person, and even if they brought charges, if the person does not have the mental capacity the charges will be dismissed. 

Your problem is not with the police it is with the legislature as they closed down several mental facilities in order to pay welfare benefits.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Doghopper???? Interesting choise of screen name.


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## BrickCop (Dec 23, 2004)

Unfortunately HUD regs changed years ago that allowed the mentally ill to live amongst seniors.

If the neighbors commit any acts of violence the housing legal cousel can apply for a 121B order and eviction through Housing Court. Also if enough neighbors complain the hosuing manager can take the matter to housing court as a lease violation (chronic nuisance). In any event you need to get a paper trail and pursue it. Pontificating on everyone's personalities will do you no good. Organize the other tenants and speak with 1 voice to management- they'll have to listen.


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

> While I am a lefty


You had me until that.


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## boghopper (Jul 26, 2009)

Thanks for the replies. I didn't expect any. I've been reading this site for quite awhile and have always found the discussions intelligent and often quite funny.

Everyone (save one) seems to have hit on some aspect of this. I have read the studies of the effects in introducing substance abusers and "volatile" younger residents into elderly communities. Not very good. The elderly fought back and got the percentage of disorderly types limited. But that's all they will ever get.

I know exactly how the first unruly type was evicted because the locals told me. I raised enough hell with the authority to bring charges. They wrote up the eviction notice and it was sent to the police for review and additions. That went to a DHCD lawyer. I also spoke with him. He said quite frankly that if she had gone to legal aid, it would have dragged on another year. So I clearly know you guys don't evict people.

Johnnylaw has very accurately described the frustration of seeing this stuff happen. What he feels as an officer is what these old women feel. But they don't know the intricacies of diminished capacity. What is shop talk to police is a foreign language to an 80-year-old-woman who has been threatened. Confounding this is the fact that if there are enough old women blabbing about something, the final description of a given event usually bears no resemblance to what actually happened.

I only waded into these politically-hot waters because I am leaving. I just don't like the town. It is a measure of how chaotic things are here that I get a bribe (I go to the town I applied to live in a number of years ago) and they get nothing. And were I to even make it known that this is what happened, they will sink even further into helplessness.

I wish that I could say that they could get together and mount a formalized protest. They won't. I've tried that. As long as The Goon is picking on some other woman, that's fine with everyone else. (It must be something in the water.)

There is no trolling or baiting here. And I am not presuming that the cops should do anything. I just asked if there is anything, given the system, that they can do.
It's about public perception, a subject that comes up in these forums quite often.

Thanks to those who responded.

Now, as to the matter raised by Deputy Chief:

The term "Boghopper" was a pejorative term for the Irish and was bandied about by the Yankees who ran Boston until women such as my own dear departed mother whelped enough of us to seize the city.

However, your reading of it as "Doghopper" may have some psychic basis. If they have seen as much aged female human flesh as I have, you too might be tempted to grab a bag of snauages and wander off with an eye toward some comely poodle or bsaaset-hound.


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## Boston Irish Lass (Feb 13, 2009)

boghopper said:


> However, your reading of it as "Doghopper" may have some psychic basis. If they have seen as much aged female human flesh as I have, you too might be tempted to grab a bag of snauages and wander off with an eye toward some comely poodle or bsaaset-hound.


You were doing so well too....right up until this....I'm sorry sir....but there have been too many odd fetish links recently for me to give any more empathy now....


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## Crvtte65 (May 19, 2002)

Call the state's Elder Affairs bureau and make a report with them.

Elder Affairs


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Jeez, I made a mistake on a keystroke, and typed Doghopper instead of Boghopperp. Of course i immediately realized my mistake, but since it takes an undetermined amount of time for the posts to clear on this forum, I really did not feel like sitting around and waiting to edit it. Boghopper on the other hand decided to justify why he would hop on a dog. That is just wonderful. My Jack Russell Terrier was horified by that.


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## boghopper (Jul 26, 2009)

Everyone, please, calm your curs!

Part of my release specifies that in the upscale the town I'm being sent to, only cats are allowed.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

boghopper said:


> Everyone, please, calm your curs!
> 
> Part of my release specifies that in the upscale the town I'm being sent to, only cats are allowed.


*Are You*


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Only dogs should hop on dogs.

This is OK









This is not OK


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## boghopper (Jul 26, 2009)

Your point is taken, sir.

But the cat appears to really love the dog.


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## Rooster Cogburn (Mar 23, 2009)

I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."
- *Hunter S. Thompson*


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## Guest (Aug 4, 2009)

boghopper said:


> Once I move, all the written complaint I have made are superfluous. . . .
> 
> I only waded into these politically-hot waters because I am leaving. I just don't like the town.


*
WHAT THE F*CK??? *If this person's leaving the situation described in such great detail then why in the Hell did he or she waste so much time writing that nonsensical, run-on-sentence-filled, grammatically-incorrect, unpunctuated piece of crap of a post in the first place?

I'm still nauseated from glancing at that garbage, and I didn't even read it.

I'm thinking perhaps *boghopper* is really *asshopper*.


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## boghopper (Jul 26, 2009)

Charmed, I'm sure. . .


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## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

Unfortunately a lot of mentally ill were sent to "private health care" and "homes" when the state started shutting down those major state hospitals (Metro in Waltham, Danvers in..Danvers and so on) A lot of those went homeless, ..idk, just a fun fact


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## rg1283 (Sep 14, 2005)

Mainly the fact also is the HUGE amount of red tape before someone gets into a State Hospital and one of those long term homes to take care of them. 

That person will be in and out of psych hospitals multiple times. Schizophrenics always will scare me.

Also the court process (Section 12 beyond 3 days involuntary), etc. to get some locked up beyond 3 days, you have to be like you read about mentally ill, not just an annoyance and different judges interpret this different ways.


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