# top 5 cities/towns for the list



## Rob720 (Aug 1, 2014)

Hi all,

I am separating from the military coming November. I will have bachelors as well as the vet preference. With the list coming out in the next few weeks, I am trying to figure out what towns/cities to put on my list. Obviously my first choice will be my home of record. As for the other four, would I have a better chance getting hired on in large departments? Any information is helpful. Thanks in advance.


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## WirePro_Joe (Jun 29, 2014)

Rob720 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am separating from the military coming November. I will have bachelors as well as the vet preference. With the list coming out in the next few weeks, I am trying to figure out what towns/cities to put on my list. Obviously my first choice will be my home of record. As for the other four, would I have a better chance getting hired on in large departments? Any information is helpful. Thanks in advance.


When I took the exam this past April, we weren't asked to pick any cities or towns. I do remember being asked if I was claiming res pref. though.


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## Rob720 (Aug 1, 2014)

yeah you don't pick the towns until you get your scores emailed to you


WirePro_Joe said:


> When I took the exam this past April, we weren't asked to pick any cities or towns. I do remember being asked if I was claiming res pref. though.


ah you


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## SouthShoreBrother (Aug 1, 2015)

Rob720 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I am separating from the military coming November. I will have bachelors as well as the vet preference. With the list coming out in the next few weeks, I am trying to figure out what towns/cities to put on my list. Obviously my first choice will be my home of record. As for the other four, would I have a better chance getting hired on in large departments? Any information is helpful. Thanks in advance.


You don't get to pick anymore. You're automatically put on your home list and that's all. It wouldn't matter anyways, even though you have veterans preference, every single resident non-vet would be above you on the list. So if you weren't a resident, you would have to wait for them to go through the entire list, which doesn't happen much. Although, some small communities with not many people on the list (like Bourne) end up sending cards out to a lot of D-Vets because their list is exhausted so easily. Your best bet moving forward: Move to a city that does a lot of hiring (like Boston) and get residency. Next time the list comes out you'll be in a much better position.


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## Rob720 (Aug 1, 2014)

thanks for the info!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phongkinhdoanh93 (Aug 16, 2016)

Thanks for the info ^^ !


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

SouthShoreBrother said:


> You don't get to pick anymore. You're automatically put on your home list and that's all. It wouldn't matter anyways, even though you have veterans preference, every single resident non-vet would be above you on the list. So if you weren't a resident, you would have to wait for them to go through the entire list, which doesn't happen much. Although, some small communities with not many people on the list (like Bourne) end up sending cards out to a lot of D-Vets because their list is exhausted so easily. Your best bet moving forward: Move to a city that does a lot of hiring (like Boston) and get residency. Next time the list comes out you'll be in a much better position.


THIS ALL OF THIS is why civil service is a fucking joke.... sorry i know a lot of you swear by it and would never vote out of it BUT the way the lists are made up is terrible... If you work for a non civil service town and wish to transfer to the larger department next door that is civil service but you live in another neighboring town you can't even get a look. So An officer with several years of training and experience, maybe a college education, military service, and obviously the full time academy can't apply for the open position but Joe Blow working at 7-11 who lives in town has zero experience never did any time in the military got a good test score and is near the top of the list.... civil service limits the applicant pool so much for almost every town in the state that there is almost zero chance they are getting the most qualified applicant for the position....


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

The first major city or town that drops out of civil service will be the beginning of a major wave. If a Cambridge or Worcester goes it will start a trend. I wish there was something in between. CS has many good things but its an all or nothing system.


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

Its like most of our politicians the usefullness has expired and its time for a change


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

I am pro-CS because it has helped me in the past, when it came to town politics. If they revamped CS and incorporated a PAT test into the score, you would weed out a lot of the weak and wastes of time. New York has a civil service system, they use throughout the state, with the exception of NYPD, that seems to work well for them. Non-CS departments are word of mouth hiring or put on a test at $100 a whack, for them to hire a internal candidate. Its not going to get any better for younger applicants out there, especially if many towns leave CS.

Worcester/Boston/Springfield, won't leave CS, due to the fact they have a large applicant pool and their officers like to use the CS test scores for promotions, to attempt to keep city politics to a minimum.


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## sgtmike1980 (Jun 4, 2016)

felony said:


> I am pro-CS because it has helped me in the past, when it came to town politics. If they revamped CS and incorporated a PAT test into the score, you would weed out a lot of the weak and wastes of time. New York has a civil service system, they use throughout the state, with the exception of NYPD, that seems to work well for them. Non-CS departments are word of mouth hiring or put on a test at $100 a whack, for them to hire a internal candidate. Its not going to get any better for younger applicants out there, especially if many towns leave CS.
> 
> Worcester/Boston/Springfield, won't leave CS, due to the fact they have a large applicant pool and their officers like to use the CS test scores for promotions, to attempt to keep city politics to a minimum.


Its not all good or bad for CS and NON CS. If places left it would be on the better side. Cleary both have thier ups and downs. As far the larger cities liking CS, don't be too sure about that. It does not keep politics out, just ask the Springfield guys.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Way back when, those with a full academy and experience were given points for every year. After the test was given, I found that I had a score of 104 between written and experience. Then, it was taken away. You couldn't, according to the pencil pusher who sent me the letter (I spoke to him. I called CS and was put through to HIM*.) and he stated that because it wasn't municipal experience, it didn't count. I asked all sorts of questions. Bottom line. You could be a full time cop at a college or university with a full academy and you were granted less worth than a part time cop from New Jersey. A former NY Transit cop had more worth getting on the T than a RR cop who worked for years dealing with Mass Law.

A soda jerk had equal pull with ANY full time cop in Mass who didn't work for a transit authority or municipality.
About 400 people from across the state joined in a class action law suit. We won. We got a few points back on the NEXT test. I had given up by then and was simply grateful to have a good job already. Not a fan of CS beyond the protections it offers.

*It seemed clear that I was far from the ONLY one who had called and the women answering the phones were sick of trying to give answers that that clown should have been offering. Comical really.


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

There are a few towns (I think there are 3) that are non-cs to get hired an promoted but have cs discipline protection. I know Wilbraham is one of them.


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## patrol22 (Oct 31, 2015)

My dept got out of civil service a few years ago, all guys who were hired under CS stay in it unless they promote. So far I haven't really noticed any negative changes. It's much easier and quicker to hire and we've been able to get "more qualified" new officers. So far they've been hiring good guys and politics don't appear to be a factor, I realize we're lucky in this sense though. The admin still plays shenanigans with other things however it's usually remedied via the CBA so CS hasn't really been used in any appreciable way.

I do agree that's it's silly for every town to give it's own test though. I wish you could just take one test and have the score sent to all participating towns, kind of how parts of NH and CT do it


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

sgtmike1980 said:


> Its not all good or bad for CS and NON CS. If places left it would be on the better side. Cleary both have thier ups and downs. As far the larger cities liking CS, don't be too sure about that. It does not keep politics out, just ask the Springfield guys.


This has been discussed many times, however I feel with departments leaving CS it will only hinder applicants. The new norm will be self sponsorship and candidates shelling out money for pointless tests, where departments hire who they want. CS helped me with interference from a selectwoman who wanted a certain candidate. I had the higher score, without a reason to bypass, thus I was hired. Non-CS towns will have to rely more heavily on Masscop attorneys, to sort out BS from the town or internal matters, when it comes to promotions and specialty positions. My current department is in negotiations to leave CS, for education incentive for non-Quinn Bill members. The pro is that we hire who we want, the con, is that we are now more susceptible to interference from the town government. The town can't wait for us to leave CS and we are essentially bending them over the barrel, to get what we want. Unless your department gets every possible thing in the contract for a possible grievance, the town will find a way to insert itself.


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

felony said:


> This has been discussed many times, however I feel with departments leaving CS it will only hinder applicants. The new norm will be self sponsorship and candidates shelling out money for pointless tests, where departments hire who they want. CS helped me with interference from a selectwoman who wanted a certain candidate. I had the higher score, without a reason to bypass, thus I was hired. Non-CS towns will have to rely more heavily on Masscop attorneys, to sort out BS from the town or internal matters, when it comes to promotions and specialty positions. My current department is in negotiations to leave CS, for education incentive for non-Quinn Bill members. The pro is that we hire who we want, the con, is that we are now more susceptible to interference from the town government. The town can't wait for us to leave CS and we are essentially bending them over the barrel, to get what we want. Unless your department gets every possible thing in the contract for a possible grievance, the town will find a way to insert itself.


Lets be REALLY HONEST HERE..... yes CS CAN SOMETIMES HELP keep politics out of the hiring process but EVERYONE here knows someoen, and I'd bet last weeks pay check some are even here on this site, that knew someone in their city/town/state gov't who made sure no matter where they were on the CS list they got hired.... politics are a part of life EVERYWHERE not just here in Mass.... I honestly believe CS hurts the hiring process for most cities and towns a lot more than it helps...


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

felony said:


> This has been discussed many times, however I feel with departments leaving CS it will only hinder applicants. The new norm will be self sponsorship and candidates shelling out money for pointless tests, where departments hire who they want. CS helped me with interference from a selectwoman who wanted a certain candidate. I had the higher score, without a reason to bypass, thus I was hired. Non-CS towns will have to rely more heavily on Masscop attorneys, to sort out BS from the town or internal matters, when it comes to promotions and specialty positions. My current department is in negotiations to leave CS, for education incentive for non-Quinn Bill members. The pro is that we hire who we want, the con, is that we are now more susceptible to interference from the town government. The town can't wait for us to leave CS and we are essentially bending them over the barrel, to get what we want. Unless your department gets every possible thing in the contract for a possible grievance, the town will find a way to insert itself.


That already IS the norm. Self sponsor, test in non-CS town, get hired. Been like that for a long time now.


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> That already IS the norm. Self sponsor, test in non-CS town, get hired. Been like that for a long time now.


HAHA true to a certain degree. However, with more departments leaving, you will see even greater numbers of self sponsors. That will be the golden ticket, not Vet Pref or D-VET status.


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

I believe that Fitchburg State is already up and running with their "Police Science" major in which graduates will leave with an MPTC basic recruit certificate. I understand that at least two other state schools are in the process of gearing up and several more looking into the program. Wait until there is a 1000 grads a year coming out with MPTC full time certs.


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

Edmizer1 said:


> I believe that Fitchburg State is already up and running with their "Police Science" major in which graduates will leave with an MPTC basic recruit certificate. I understand that at least two other state schools are in the process of gearing up and several more looking into the program. Wait until there is a 1000 grads a year coming out with MPTC full time certs.


There's gonna be a lot of disappointed graduates lol...


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## sgtmike1980 (Jun 4, 2016)

Not too big of a surprise, its not exactly a new concept.


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