# Concealed Carry



## Dan Stark (Aug 2, 2005)

Just putting this out there because I'm launching this at my department, for when we have occasional PC detail, or VIPs coming. This past July, a concealed carry/ BUG course was approved by MPTC. I know we all have our stuff that were passionate about, and firearms training is one of mine if you haven't deduced that.

http://www.mlefiaa.org/files/MPTC_NEWS/CONCEALED_CARRY_BUG_QUAL_final_7_22_2013.pdf

If you carry concealed (or carry department gun off duty) , and don't run your actual qual in the kit that you conceal carry in, you should. Presenting from concealment, reloading from concealment, and identifying yourself properly (WITH A BADGE) are skills that are not practiced. I know I'm preaching to choir to most of you, and no one wants more shit that they have to do, but it's been on my mind lately.

Get a good holster, get a good system for handling reloads, and bug your firearms guy to run the qual for ya. It's just a CYA kind of course, but it covers a significant gap in training relative to Popow v. Margate imho.

Stuff if you're having trouble sleeping.
http://www.patc.com/weeklyarticles/uof_training-liability.shtml

TL;DR


> In addressing the City of Margate's liability with respect to firearms training the court noted that the officer involved testified in his deposition that he was initially trained on deadly force at the police academy ten years prior to the shooting. His continued firearms training with respect to firearms consisted of going to a range twice a year. The court noted that there was no training with respect to low light conditions, moving targets or firing in residential areas. The court concluded that it was entirely foreseeable that an officer from the City of Margate, a largely residential area, would have to pursue a fleeing (moving) suspect at night (low-light). The court remanded the case back to the trial court after deciding that a jury could find the training provided by the City of Margate was grossly inadequate vi


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Rule 1: Carry a backup gun.


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## Dan Stark (Aug 2, 2005)

Always a great idea, not always feasible with Chiefs stuck in the stone age.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Hush said:


> Rule 1: Carry a backup gun.
> View attachment 2897


Most folks on my department carry a back up. They strongly encourage it in the academy and we talk about it in roll calls every once in a while.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Hush said:


> Rule 1: Carry a backup gun.
> View attachment 2897


I tried that at my place. Even though I made it clear that the backup would be at the individual officer's expense (gotta sweeten the deal somehow for him) he refused flat out. Some bullshit reason like ammo interoperability between officers. Even though this is a BACKUP piece and not primary. I gave up, I'm not the officer that gets things done anymore.


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## Mr Scribbles (Jul 7, 2012)

When DHS used to issue red alerts or significant "anniversaries" (9/11,etc) I would bring my shotgun/black rifle to work. While it may stay in the locker, at least it's closer than home. With my Dept going to patrol rifles, this may no longer be necessary. No back ups by our R&R's more for image of some communities that it would be a throw down.
RE: Training. We're encouraged to fire a familiarization course with any/all firearms we own privately. If you do, this weapon can be carried when you go away under HR 218


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Better to to be fired by one, than carried by 6....right?


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## Killjoy (Jun 23, 2003)

We actually conduct a concealed carry course during firearms training for all of our RTT recruits. Includes drawing from concealment and ID'ing yourself as an LE officer, and they wear their court attire, rather than "range gear". We actually issue an off-duty holster with the our duty weapon since you may have go to court in suit rather than a uniform, depending on the case and the court, but Superior Court often requires business suits. Unfortunately, time constraints prevent us from providing similar training to SSPO's or MPTC classes.

Still a no-go on backup guns, since our management is stuck in the stone age.


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## uspresident1 (Jan 12, 2007)

Killjoy said:


> We actually conduct a concealed carry course during firearms training for all of our RTT recruits. Includes drawing from concealment and ID'ing yourself as an LE officer, and they wear their court attire, rather than "range gear". We actually issue an off-duty holster with the our duty weapon since you may have go to court in suit rather than a uniform, depending on the case and the court, but Superior Court often requires business suits. Unfortunately, time constraints prevent us from providing similar training to SSPO's or MPTC classes.
> 
> Still a no-go on backup guns, since our management is stuck in the stone age.


That's 100x better than most places. I don't know of too many places who practice drawing from concealment.

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## Dan Stark (Aug 2, 2005)

Killjoy said:


> We actually conduct a concealed carry course during firearms training for all of our RTT recruits. Includes drawing from concealment and ID'ing yourself as an LE officer, and they wear their court attire, rather than "range gear". We actually issue an off-duty holster with the our duty weapon since you may have go to court in suit rather than a uniform, depending on the case and the court, but Superior Court often requires business suits. Unfortunately, time constraints prevent us from providing similar training to SSPO's or MPTC classes.
> 
> Still a no-go on backup guns, since our management is stuck in the stone age.


Very cool to be doing that at academy level. I know you guys have your heads in the game down there.


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

We are authorized as many "secondary weapons" as we have money and patience to bother with. The only requirements are it must be approved by a range officer, you must fire a qualification course or an off duty course with it. Pretty much any handgun can be carried on duty as a backup or off duty if it meets the above. I've got three handguns and a shotgun on the books as secondary weapons right now.

This covers long guns as well, and the Chief has given blanket approval to any 12-gauge shotgun and any AR-platform rifle in .223 or 5.56mm. Duty weapon is a Glock 9mm, but lots of 1911's around as secondary weapons.

USM C-4

From the Hub City of the South

============================
"Some day I'm going to put a sword through your eye and out the back of your skull." - Arya Stark

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## Dan Stark (Aug 2, 2005)

I'm packing up to transfer now USM. Is your department looking for a good looking tackleberry? 

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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

As I have been with other stuff back there, I'm amazed that in 2013 you guys still aren't allowed to carry a back up gun, especially with all the violence that is going on in the world.

Who cares if the public thinks it might be a "throw away." As long as you register it with your department like you would with your primary weapon, what's the problem? Not to mention it might actually save your life!

For my back up, I carry a S&W 9 shot, 9mm. It's the same caliber as my primary weapon, has more stopping power than a .38, and 9 rounds is better than 5 or 6 in a .38.

We've been carrying back up guns long before I came on the job back in the late 80s. The LAPD advocates carrying one although it's not a shall. When we get in the car with a new partner, one of the first things we talk about is where we each keep our back up.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Better to beg forgiveness than ask permission. And better to have and not need, than need and not have. Springs break, pistols malfunction, and they can be dropped, snatched, or struck by gunfire.


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## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

LA Copper said:


> ..........We've been carrying back up guns long before I came on the job back in the late 80s. The LAPD advocates carrying one although it's not a shall. When we get in the car with a new partner, one of the first things we talk about is where we each keep our back up.


Once upon a time (late 70's,early 1980's,) in a land far far away (well, at least, far far away from MA, but close to _you_, LA Copper), _everyone_ carried a back-up gun, and a few guys even carried three guns: primary (4" or 6" .38 revolver, back then); a back-up, usually a 2" .38; and a handful of guys carried a small derringer type third gun as well. Plus a double edged boot knife/dagger, of course. Never knew anyone to need that third gun, though I do recall at least one shooting (early '80's, IIRC) where a back-up .38 gun was used to dispatch the miscreant.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

That's where the term "New York Reload" came from.


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Hush said:


> That's where the term "New York Reload" came from.


The quickest reload is the one you don't have to perform.

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