# I have a question



## screamineagle (Jul 11, 2005)

*I have a question [Self Sponsor Academy Training]*

Most Police Depts I see that are hiring require the applicants to be already academy certified. My question is, if someone wants to get into law enforcement, but has a mortgage and a family, how are they supposed to go to the academy on their own and not collect a pay check for the 25 weeks they are there.Also, dept personnel have preference on slots for they academy, so someone who is not on a list will get bumped. how in the heck are they supposed to do it?


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## JoninNH (Jan 29, 2004)

ladderman508 said:


> Most Police Depts I see that are hiring require the applicants to be already academy certified. My question is, if someone wants to get into law enforcement, but has a mortgage and a family, how are they supposed to go to the academy on their own and not collect a pay check for the 25 weeks they are there.Also, dept personnel have preference on slots for they academy, so someone who is not on a list will get bumped. how in the heck are they supposed to do it?


And thats the $50,000 question.

Work your way up from the bottom of the tottem pole. Start as an auxiliary, a special, a reserve, or even as a dispatcher. Get your R/I Academy punched (I've been told some departments send their reserves/specials thru the full-time course, although I don't know how that works with the new entry requirements, and I'm not sure if they're paid.) and bust your ass looking. How about getting on a department that doesn't require the academy as a prereq., attend thier academy, stay with 'em long enough not to burn the bridges, then leave. It is a very lucky MA Police Officer who is hired by his "dream" or "first-choice" department as his first time job.

Also there are a lot of people walking around with full-time academy certificates out there, whether they are ex-cops or those lucky bastards who were able to attend the MCJTC as a tuition student. These advertisments for f/t academy grads might be aimed towards them.

It's hard to get into Law Enforcement, and rightfully so. Its a profession held to higher standards then working at anything else. Integrity isn't just a flashy word spit out in a recruiting campaign (unless its NYPD). In some areas you make shit-for-pay, and then one day you bust a guy for driving drunk and he offers you a bribe, or you raid a place and find thousands of dollars lying around... you going to be tempted? Thats why they have all these hoops to jump thru to become a cop. You are the person John Q. Public goes to when he has a problem.

Oh, one more thing, unless I'm mistaken you can't attend a full-time academy in Mass. unless you're employed by a department, see previous threads on this topic for specifics.

That said, I think it's incredibly hard to become a cop in MA as opposed to some neghboring states. But even here in New Hampshire you can't put yourself thru an academy as a tuition student, you have to be hired first.

There are some people on this board, I suspect, have been trying for a full time slot for years now. Some of them have college, military, EMT cert., maybe an auxiliary or reserve gig, and an R/I academy under their belts and they are still waiting for that call.

I hear you on the family thing. Family comes first... I have a beautiful lady and a two-year old who rely on me to provide for them, and that's keeping me from attending any neighboring states academy as a tuition student. She doesn't even make close to the amount of money needed to support us.

Anyhow, I'll get off my soap box.


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## KozmoKramer (Apr 25, 2004)

*That's not a soap box rant Jon. You've synopsized the opinions and advice from about 100+ prior posts. Excellent job. :thumbup: 

*


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## badgebunny (Aug 17, 2005)

It sucks! I think this is one of the hardest if not the hardest state to get hired as a full timer. My husband has been trying for a long time and nothing has happened yet....yet being the opporative word. We are hopeful. Hang in there though...


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Seven years here, started in 95. Did the auxiliary gig, cell attendant, dispatcher and finally got hired. It is hard but well worth it. Keep at it!


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## extraining guy (Jul 31, 2005)

THe reason why you cannot put yourself through an academy in Massachusetts is the Liability involved. Departments such as the one I am on think only about liability. The academy directors, who are ultimately responsible for recruits will NEVER, repeat NEVER allow a recruit to enter thier academies without a full medical exam and write off from a sponsoring department. If you die during training the academy will remit back to the sponsoring agency and say "they hired him, they said he was healthy" If you are self sponsored who gets sued, THE ACADEMY, MCJTC, and finally the ACADEMY DIRECTOR. There is no chance of going to a full time, MCJTC academy without being hired by a department. The R/I academies are just classroom stuff to make money for the MCJTC. 
Good Luck and keep taking those exams.


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## extraining guy (Jul 31, 2005)

I forgot, all the EMT, Military , certs etc. MEAN ABSOLUTLY NOTHING. Military counts 2 full points on the entrance exam, disabled vets (yes Matilda, flat feet is a disabled vet) go to top of list. It is not going to get easier with the Iraq vets coming back with "sand burn" "broken toe nails" "toothaches" as a disability. They will go right to the top. It is not inconceivable to see a CC list in the future with the first 100+ names Iraq veterans with 100+ scores. Those points get added on even if they score a 100. So a score of 108 is not impossible. 
ALL that counts in order to get into the process is for your HOMETOWN, you stand a much better chance in your hometown than anywhere else, is they must be hiring and you must be in the high part of the list so you can get in the process (background checks, physicals etc). If you live in a town with a department size of 5 and is CC. You are going to have a problem. Move to a larger, older city like Lynn, Lawrence, Lowell and you get residence preference, and they hire more. Lynn just hired 7 (all Lynn residents) and are putting on 10 more in December (this a 80K-90K job) . Some of these cites, Like Lynn have a residency requirement where you must live in the city to work there.
Good luck.:razz:


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## fjmas1976 (Aug 27, 2005)

*Re: I have a question (disabled vetss).....could you be any more ignorant?*

I am a disabled vet and I feel that I and every other veteran who served their country and walked away with a injury/disablity deserve every break this state can give. I raised my right hand and swore to defend the rights that we all enjoy and dedicated 4 years of my life. While most of the people who want to be cops were having a good ol' time, living the college life and partying it up (getting a degree for CJ) myself and a lot of men and women gave a lot of themselves for this great country we live in. I have no regrets, I voluntered. I was injured during my service and I WILL NEVER be 100% of what I was before the USMC. But because I gave up 4 years of my life I am behind, and just now working on my CJ degree.

AS FOR THE IRAQ VETS......WHILE WE ARE ALL HOME BEING FAT AND HAPPY AND GOING ABOUT LIFE AS NORMAL THOSE MEN/WOMEN ARE PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FOR US EVERY DAY AND COMING HOME BUSTED UP PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY. THEY DESERVE EVERY SINGLE BREAK THEY GET AND I CAN'T EVEN BEGIN TO IMAGINE HOW YOU COULD MOCK THAT AND EVEN SAY THEY DON'T DESERVE. THOSE BOYS ARE FIGHTING FOR US AND FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE. THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU TYPE FOR NOW ON AND WHO IT WILL OFFEND


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

Thank you Pakcman for bringing this post back to where it started. 

Ladderman - It is tough, especially if you don't have Vets. points. But working your way up, like Gil and many others did is the way to do it. Like Jon stated earlier you cannot put yourself through, so the only way to do it is to get hired. 

My husband moved to CT to get a job (hired, then academy) because it is very difficult to get on in MA. My suggestion, work your tail off if it's what you want or seriously consider moving.

Either way, most of us are here to help, not ridicule the system.


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## extraining guy (Jul 31, 2005)

People wonder why it is hard to get on police departments and those are just the facts of life in this state. I have nothing against the military or those who choose to serve or whether the system is right or wrong. It is just reality. I am just trying to educate people about how it works. Not whether I agree or disagree, that is irrelevent. Don't be so sensitive and take things so personally. 
Relax , you'll live longer.


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## Crvtte65 (May 19, 2002)

extraining guy said:


> People wonder why it is hard to get on police departments and those are just the facts of life in this state. I have nothing against the military or those who choose to serve or whether the system is right or wrong. It is just reality. I am just trying to educate people about how it works. Not whether I agree or disagree, that is irrelevent. Don't be so sensitive and take things so personally.
> Relax , you'll live longer.


It seems apparent in your posts you have something against vets (and d-vets). So, which is it (hypothetical)? If you were _just_ trying to educate, you would have not included personal opinions.


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## extraining guy (Jul 31, 2005)

Nothing at all against vets, disabled or otherwise.I could be a vet myself, I have several very close friends who are vets from a war that saved civilization,(fewer and fewer sad to say) and several wars since. You are all way to sensitive about this vet thing. Just be real. The entrance exam score means everything. In order to become a police officer in Massachusetts you must get at least a 99 on the entrance exam, and have large, old departments, that hire on your preference list (it helps if you live in these cities) . Having all these certs in EMT, and high level degrees, working as matrons, or dispatchers do not mean anything if you do not get into the hiring process. Your competition is veteran's preference, very much like affirmative action in Boston and special lists for Spanish and Khmer speaking applicants. If people really want to get preference on an exam and are not vets this is where they should put their efforts, learn and become fluent in as many foreign languages as possible (Spanish, Khmer,Haitian Creole, Russian for starters, Arabic and Farsi later), that is real good advice. I'm sure that I'll get a reply that says this is an English speaking country ,blah blah blah. That's not reality. My department has 5 officers that were hired strictly because of their language abilities. 2 spanish speaking, 2 Khmer speaking and 1 Russian speaking. None got higher than a 95 on the entrance exam and none are vets and all are caucasian and put the time in to get the job.
Whether I agree or disagree with vet pref is irrelevant, whether anyone else agrees or disagrees is also irrelevant, it's the way it is. If you get an 80 on the entrance exam and are not a vet (disabled or otherwise) or have language skills you *will not* get into the process, it don't matter if you are a dispatcher, matron, aux, special, have 3 PHd's in physics-chemistry and biology, are a lawyer, EMT-B,EMT-A, Paramedic, Nurse, Medical Doctor or all of the above. You have to get into the process to get hired and that takes a 99+ or above, vet pref, or language skills, on the Municipal/MBTA Police Officer Civil Service entrance exam.


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## screamineagle (Jul 11, 2005)

wow, I didnt mean to open a can of worms with this question.#-o I am starting the reserve academy on sept 12. I am a army veteran ( screaming eagles air assault!) And if I NEVER get a job as a police officer because the slot went to a veteran of any war, then I will gladly never be a p.ur veterans deserve anything and everything our country can do to repay them for what they have done. And if anyone bitches about losing a spot to a vet, then sign up and stand watch on the wall along side them.


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

ladderman508 said:


> wow, I didnt mean to open a can of worms with this question.#-o I am starting the reserve academy on sept 12.


Good luck in the reserve academy! :smile:


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

extraining guy said:


> (yes Matilda, flat feet is a disabled vet) go to top of list. It is not going to get easier with the Iraq vets coming back with "sand burn" "broken toe nails" "toothaches" as a disability. They will go right to the top. Good luck.:razz:


extraining guy,

No way you backpeddle out of this. You're obviously a bitter person who would rather diss an entire class of persons, than accept that a score in th 80"s won't cut it.


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## screamineagle (Jul 11, 2005)

Good luck in the reserve academy! 

Thank you! I am looking forward to it.:thumbup:


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## extraining guy (Jul 31, 2005)

](*,) Wow


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