# Massachusetts Reciprocal Program?



## well rounded (Mar 20, 2013)

Hello folks,

I am getting mixed messages about Massachusetts reciprocal programs.

I just moved back home after working for the Florida Highway Patrol. I gave it my best as a Trooper, but realized that it wasn't the job for me; I wasn't happy. In the mean time, my first child was born and my wife became home-sick, making the decision to be closer to our families. I attended a 27 week academy in Florida, and though I can always use extra training and exercise, I really don't want to go back to academy. 

I am not aware of any programs that the state offers to accept my Florida training and certifications.
Before locating to Florida, I had attended 'Reserve Intermittent Academy' and obtained a license as a Mass State Special.

I do not want to be a Trooper in Massachusetts, I'd rather work for a city/town- or a nice paying campus job.

Let me know what you think.

Thank you!


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Better sign up for the civil crevice exam right now. They are taking additional test applications until beginning if April I think. 


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## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

Hell, depending on where you were stationed, I woulda been more than happy to swap.. Aaahhh, if only that were feasible....


On a serious note, with many people here looking to get on the job down south, you could be a valuable asset.. Welcome to Hell... Sorry, I meant aboard, welcome aboard....


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## 7MPOC (Mar 16, 2004)

If you are hired by a department here they can request a waiver for the basic recruit academy. Only the department can request it once your hired. You should have no problem with the waiver as Florida is the equivalent. (800+ hours) You would need to be up to date with cpr/first aid, con/criminal law, and firearms qual. You would probably get sent to the RI academy to cover all the bases once hired.


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

What is up with FHP? I have heard nothing but horror stories about how they treat other cops.


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2013)

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-enforce-and-cj/law-enforce/mptc/lateral-transfers-and-exemptions/


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## well rounded (Mar 20, 2013)

Oh, I'm taking the exam... This will be my 4th time around.

I have nothing bad to say about FHP. We shared our academy grounds with others from different departments, and it showed. We'd be marching to the chow hall, they'd be lazily walking. We'd be doing pushups in the hot heat (for a classmate's mess up) while they'd be smoking cigarettes, laughing. In so many ways, it was nice having that structure-- It was nice being 'Florida's Finest'. Our training was also extended 8 weeks beyond any other Florida academy (besides Fish & Wildlife). My academy instructors were exceptional, and so was the food!

I am sorry to read that some of you had issues with FHP.

They want Troopers to be the best in the state and prove it. Troopers in Florida are over-worked and under paid. Your pay depends on the county you lived and worked in. Most of the brass moved up the chain by constantly having to pack up their homes and families. For a state that has 18 million people, there were only 1,600 Troopers. Broward County Sheriff's Office has more that 1,600 deputies. You have to be tough, backup could be 50 miles away. As you all know, being tough does not include being a DICK, nor were we taught to be like that; and because backup could be so far away, why would you not want to make friends?


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

Your nephew is enjoying his new toy. Smashing the buttons and running circles.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

there was a recent posting for M.I.T.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

I think 7MPOC and Delta pretty well covered the exemption process from the Municipal side. As for the nice paying Campus PD's, (such as MIT) there is a similar exemption process through the MSP for SSPO powers. Here's the link http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-enforce-and-cj/law-enforce/prof-stds/cert-unit/spec-st-pol/


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

You're a shoe-in for, dare I say it.............SSPO!! So any campus should be glad to have ya.
But I'd be putting in for EVERY non-civil circus job too! and yes, take that dumb test for whatever good it'll do ya!


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

new guy said:


> I think 7MPOC and Delta pretty well covered the exemption process from the Municipal side. As for the nice paying Campus PD's, (such as MIT) there is a similar exemption process through the MSP for SSPO powers. Here's the link http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-enforce-and-cj/law-enforce/prof-stds/cert-unit/spec-st-pol/


Most of the bigger schools won't let you do the SSPO waiver. MIT requires SSPO academy or better. BU and BC require full time academy.

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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

GMass said:


> Most of the bigger schools won't let you do the SSPO waiver. MIT requires SSPO academy or better. BU and BC require full time academy.
> 
> Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2


He has a full time out of State Academy which the bigger schools generally accept.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

7MPOC said:


> You would probably get sent to the RI academy to cover all the bases once hired.


You can now do the course work online through e-eops


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

new guy said:


> He has a full time out of State Academy which the bigger schools generally accept.


It's not really up to the school to decide, it's dependent upon the MPTC issuing a permanent waiver. I suppose a school could lower the standards for one guy (accept SSPO waiver (reserve & experience/college/military)) because he has experience elsewhere, but I don't see that actually happening.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

GMass said:


> It's not really up to the school to decide, it's dependent upon the MPTC issuing a permanent waiver. I suppose a school could lower the standards for one guy (accept SSPO waiver (reserve & experience/college/military)) because he has experience elsewhere, but I don't see that actually happening.


It's actually up to the MSP certification unit to grant the exemption for SSPO powers. A 27 week academy and recent LE experience should make him eligible for a temporary exemption and he would just need to pass the criminal law test to make it permanent. The bigger schools will generally accept a candidate with a full time out of state academy provided they are eligible for SSPO certification. They will not, as you pointed out, accept a candidate who is eligible for a waiver by way of a R/I academy.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Well the bigger schools require an MPTC academy, even though there are lesser SSPO standards available that they COULD warrant officers under. So if OP wants to go to BU, BC, Harvard, etc., those schools would require the MPTC waiver of full-time academy before asking MSP to certify him as an SSPO. 

I didn't realize he had a 27 week academy. He should be ALLLL set, as even the longest academies in this state are 26 weeks (1200hrs) and the MPTC waiver requires 800 hrs. 

It's too bad out-of-state individuals can't get the waiver without being hired. That'd be a win-win situation for employers and applicants.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

GMass said:


> Well the bigger schools require an MPTC academy, even though there are lesser SSPO standards available that they COULD warrant officers under. So if OP wants to go to BU, BC, Harvard, etc., those schools would require the MPTC waiver of full-time academy before asking MSP to certify him as an SSPO. .


Requiring a candidate with a full time out of state academy to obtain an MPTC waiver is entirely up to the hiring agency as part of their hiring standard. Obtaining the waiver from the MSP cert unit is required by the state even if if they have the MPTC waiver. Either way, the OP would be eligible for both. You may also want to check your facts about BC. I believe they now accept candidates with the SSPO recruit academy.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

GMass said:


> Well the bigger schools require an MPTC academy, even though there are lesser SSPO standards available that they COULD warrant officers under. So if OP wants to go to BU, BC, Harvard, etc., those schools would require the MPTC waiver of full-time academy before asking MSP to certify him as an SSPO.
> 
> I didn't realize he had a 27 week academy. He should be ALLLL set, as even the longest academies in this state are 26 weeks (1200hrs) and the MPTC waiver requires 800 hrs.
> 
> It's too bad out-of-state individuals can't get the waiver without being hired. That'd be a win-win situation for employers and applicants.


Just to highlight the absurdity of training standards in this state, my 1988 13-week FT MCJTC academy will trump the 20+ week SSPO academy for PD's requiring the full academy.

I know my 25+ years of experience counts for a lot, but setting rigid academy requirements is kind of stupid to me.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Delta784 said:


> Just to highlight the absurdity of training standards in this state, my 1988 13-week FT MCJTC academy will trump the 20+ week SSPO academy for PD's requiring the full academy.
> 
> I know my 25+ years of experience counts for a lot, but setting rigid academy requirements is kind of stupid to me.


Do you happen to have a copy of your academy curriculum? I'd like to compare it to modern academies' course load. I have a feeling that a great deal of it is the "hugs and love for everyone" blocks of instruction

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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

GMass said:


> Do you happen to have a copy of your academy curriculum? I'd like to compare it to modern academies' course load. I have a feeling that a great deal of it is the "hugs and love for everyone" blocks of instruction


I do somewhere, I'll take a look for it, I want to say it was 600 hours.

They were running out of shit to talk about by the end, so I have no idea what they're "teaching" these days. Then again, that was before community policing, Kumbya, EVOC was called "pursuit driving", etc.


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## Guest (Mar 23, 2013)

Just went through mine. You probably didn't have any of this crap:

Impact Program 16
One on One Communication 12
Verbal Judo 8
Crime Prevention and Fear Reduction 4
Problem Solving 4
Evolution of Community Policing 8
Beat and Community Profile Development 12
Community Communications 4
WMD (SLATT/ICS-100/NIMS) 24
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome 4
Crisis Intervention and Conflict Resolution 16
Hate / Bias Crimes 4
Elder Abuse, People with Special Needs 8
Sexual Harassment / Cultural Diversity 8
Domestic Terrorism and Hate Crimes 
4


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

GMass said:


> Just went through mine. You probably didn't have any of this crap:
> 
> Impact Program 16
> One on One Communication 12
> ...


The only one that I had from that list was Elder Abuse.

Community policing hadn't even been coined yet, we were taught the rapid response concept. Service the call as quickly as possible, then on to the next one.


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## Guest (Mar 24, 2013)

Well there's at LEAST 3.5 weeks right there.


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## Inspector71 (Sep 30, 2007)

The whole MPTC setup is gay.....Aren't they supposed to be adopting a POST-type model someday soon?


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## Irishpride (May 5, 2002)

Inspector71 said:


> The whole MPTC setup is gay.....Aren't they supposed to be adopting a POST-type model someday soon?


Lol that would require the state to fund in-service and specialized training, neither of which I see happening anytime soon


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2013)

A POST-style system will never happen in MA, since that would require a statewide peace officer statute, which means that if you're a police officer somewhere, you're a police officer everywhere within that state, with equal rights of arrest.

SPAM would/will open their coffers and call in every political favor they have to kill any sort of that legislation that grants statewide jurisdiction to ANYONE other than non-MSP people.

I get annoyed when I have to make arrests within my jurisdiction, never mind somewhere else.


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Delta784 said:


> A POST-style system will never happen in MA, since that would require a statewide peace officer statute, which means that if you're a police officer somewhere, you're a police officer everywhere within that state, with equal rights of arrest.


Not saying it would happen in MA, but not every state rolls the same way California does. As a certified peace officer and a police officer in a state that has a POST system, I could certainly make an arrest out of my jurisdiction for an in-presence crime but any such arrest would fall under the citizen arrest statute outside of my jurisdiction. Probable cause is not an element for a citizens arrest; I forget the language of the statute and I'm not going to look it up right now, but it involves being present when a crime is occurring.

Ironically there is no transfer of authority statute on the books here, but it would be damn easy to articulate any police action taken under a mutual aid agreement or the statute for duty to aid a peace officer when requested provided the proper steps are taken.


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

Pretty much the same here. Our University officers have attend the same academy as police, Sherrif, probations, parole, everyone but highway patrol. While jurisdiction is limited to property owned or controlled by the university, state law says any person may make an arrest for a crime committed in their presence. Period, full stop.


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

Inspector71 said:


> The whole MPTC setup is gay.....Aren't they supposed to be adopting a POST-type model someday soon?


there was legislation proposed this year i have no idea where it went though.

we NEED a post system so badly. How can an officer graduate the R/I academy or the SSPO academy and then work for a college or university that is sworn specials in a city or town work alongside officers who went to the full mptc, back those officers up, take details in the town and largely expected to do the same job but not have the same training? With that said i know there are plenty of officers who went to SSPO or R/I who are as good if not better cops then some who went to a full MPTC but isn't it only a matter of time till an arrest is made by someone with a less hours of academy time while working for their department off campus as a special or doing a detail and some shit bag attorney makes him or her out to be nothing more then a security guard because they didn't complete the full mptc...


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2013)

frank said:


> Not saying it would happen in MA, but not every state rolls the same way California does. As a certified peace officer and a police officer in a state that has a POST system, I could certainly make an arrest out of my jurisdiction for an in-presence crime but any such arrest would fall under the citizen arrest statute outside of my jurisdiction. Probable cause is not an element for a citizens arrest; I forget the language of the statute and I'm not going to look it up right now, but it involves being present when a crime is occurring.
> 
> Ironically there is no transfer of authority statute on the books here, but it would be damn easy to articulate any police action taken under a mutual aid agreement or the statute for duty to aid a peace officer when requested provided the proper steps are taken.


The standard of proof for a citizen's arrest in MA is "did in fact commit", which anyone with half a brain is going to avoid at all costs.

The only way I'm going to take action while off-duty outside of my jurisdiction is to stop a serious felony (where I do have the regular right of arrest) such as armed robbery, to help a police officer being assaulted, or to help someone I consider defenseless (children, the elderly).

If I see 2 idiots fighting each other, I will cheerfully drive by without stopping and "report & observe". If the state doesn't trust me to make a misdemeanor arrest outside my city, even though probable cause and the rights of arrest are the exact same everywhere in the state as within my city, then I don't care enough to get involved.


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## Guest (Mar 29, 2013)

Inspector71 said:


> The whole MPTC setup is gay.....Aren't they supposed to be adopting a POST-type model someday soon?


There is a legislative committee formed to deal with this topic. They're currently focusing on where the money will come from.


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

The only benefit we have with the stae wide authority is during investigations, when we travel upstate to Albany or Buffalo. It makes it a lot easier and does not inconvienence the local P.D.


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## Guest (Mar 30, 2013)

BxDetSgt said:


> The only benefit we have with the stae wide authority is during investigations, when we travel upstate to Albany or Buffalo. It makes it a lot easier and does not inconvienence the local P.D.


I don't want to make about 90% of the arrests I make while on-duty, does the Legislature seriously think I'm going to be trolling in other municipalities on my own time to make arrests while off-duty?

It's a CYA safety cushion, but as I said, if the Legislature (which sinks every statewide peace officer bill) doesn't trust me to make a misdemeanor arrest outside my city, then so be it. I will cheerfully apply the blinders and go about my business.


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## Newton Savage (Jan 27, 2013)

Correct me if I am wrong, but under the current MPTC structure, there is no committee or panel of trustees that can pull your certification if you are fired because of a crime committed or have been found to be unethical, etc right? 

However, under a POST system, there would be such a committee that could hold a hearing to determine if a violation of statewide policy/procedure has been broken or a felony/misdemeanor has been committed and the person has been convicted, that they could then vote to revoke your training certification and you will no longer be allowed to work as a police officer..

Perhaps the individual town selectmen/city councilmen don't want to lose their authority to hire or fire, or maybe a chief or sheriff wants to have the authority to appoint whomever they wish? 

Also, maybe all the SSPO campuses, especially state level ones or private campuses that have a lot of political pull are afraid that if everyone is at the same standard of training, they would be threatened that their officers would jump ship to go work for a town agency?


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

samadam78 said:


> *How can an officer* graduate the R/I academy or the SSPO academy and then *work for a college or university that is sworn specials in a city or town work alongside officers who went to the full mptc, back those officers up, take details in the town and largely expected to do the same job* _*but not have the same training?*_ _*With that said i know there are plenty of officers who went to SSPO or R/I who are as good if not better cops then some who went to a full MPTC*_ *but isn't it only a matter of time till an arrest is made by someone with a less hours of academy time while working for their department off campus as a special or doing a detail* *and some shit bag attorney makes him or her out to be nothing more then a security guard because they didn't complete the full mptc*...[/quote]
> 
> Okay lot to look at here perhaps....... Seems to be an allusion to campus cops working details or helping out off-campus being less legit because of their academy. As if their making legitimate arrests will somehow lead to their being accused of being "security guards" in subsequent court proceedings. Am I reading you right here Sam?
> Well, there are plenty of MUNICIPAL folks out there working with R/I academy. No concern there? Conversely, there are plenty of "college or university" cops who DO have the full MPTC. So that makes them again ahh, what, Real Cop versus Security Guard?
> Come on now. You want to worry about what a defense attorney is going to attack? It won't be the lawful arrest itself in most cases.. If arrest causes an injury=how many hours of Use of Force/DT?. If the pursuit ends in a crash, it will probably be=how many hours of EVOC? It's all about liability when something/someone suffers damage, and is it defendable/justified/etc.....


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

MPD i agree 100 % about the use of force/ EVOC hours being brought into question by an attorney. As far as Campus PD goes i was just using that as one example, i think EVERYONE working the street/campus/wherever who has police powers should be receiving the same initial training. Also like i said in my initial post I know cops who have the R/I who are better cops than people with full mptc I understand fully that its not just the academy that makes the cop


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

samadam78 said:


> but isn't it only a matter of time till an arrest is made by someone with a less hours of academy time while working for their department off campus as a special or doing a detail and some shit bag attorney makes him or her out to be nothing more then a security guard because they didn't complete the full mptc...


Have you ever testified in a trial or a motions hearing ? Defense attorneys have been trying to make Campus Police Officers look like incompetent fools on the stand since the begining of our existence. It's a right of passage in this field.


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## samadam78 (Nov 10, 2007)

new guy said:


> Have you ever testified in a trial or a motions hearing ? Defense attorneys have been trying to make Campus Police Officers look like incompetent fools on the stand since the begining of our existence. It's a right of passage in this field.


I have and this is exactly my point. If everyone received the same initial training it would make campus law enforcement a lot more difficult for an attorney to attack. I can't blame the attorney if i was the attorney and knew that some officers on ANY agency had less initial training than the rest of the dept. i would attack that in court too


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2013)

There is nothing in a POST system that requires every single police officer be trained identically. Yes, the colleges have a legitimate concern about losing bodies and thus keep the SSPO training less than full-time. I don't agree with it, but from their stand point it is very understandable. 

California has a POST system and they have a three-tiered training system. 

The establishment of POST isn't the establishment of training requirements, it's simply an establishment and funding of organization who is then tasked with setting training requirements. To a point, we already have that. The state funds the MPTC, who then develops training requirements and codifies them in the CMRs. 

The most important point with the POST system that the legislative committee is working on right now is FUNDING. I spoke with a member on the committee about a month ago and he indicated they all agree that they're not going to follow through with a POST system unless they can get it adequate and guaranteed funding. They're tossing around RMV surcharges right now, as apparently that's how other states fund police training. 

Regarding the POST de-certification list: you get on the decertification list for two reasons: Lying or felony conviction, both of which even the most simple of background investigations will uncover. There were comments in the MPTC meeting minutes that, in theory, a recruit could get bounced out of Academy A for a Class-1 violation, then sneak into Academy B because there's no centralized database. It is my understanding that that issues has been resolved due to the new training records database that the MPTC is using which even "authorized academies' " (Lowel, Boston, T, etc.) recruits are entered into upon application.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

samadam78 said:


> I have and this is exactly my point. If everyone received the same initial training it would make campus law enforcement a lot more difficult for an attorney to attack. I can't blame the attorney if i was the attorney and knew that some officers on ANY agency had less initial training than the rest of the dept. i would attack that in court too


Sorry but when you said that it's "_only a matter of time," _I just had to ask. Attorney's always have and will continue to try and discredit campus PO's on the stand regardless of what academy they went to and that's not going to change. I've seen plenty of solid cases go down the tubes for no valid reason, but I've yet to see one get tossed based on the length of the arresting officers recruit academy. Then again this is MASS, so who knows. God Save the Commonwealth.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

GMass said:


> There is nothing in a POST system that requires every single police officer be trained identically. .


You are correct. The current director of the MPTC comes from a POST State (Wyoming) where all LEO's go through a basic training program together for a certain period of time before they move on to additional training that is more specific to their particular discipline, e.g. State, Municipal, Wildlife and Fisheries, etc... Kind of sounds similar to a FLETC system to me.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Here in Califronia from what I've seen, POST can "de-certify" an officer if they don't have the minimum amount of in-service hours per year, which right now is at 24; if I remember correctly, it used to be 40 when I first came on the job.

As for the academy, POST mandates a certain ciriculum and minimum amount of hours of specific topics be taught statewide. It's up to the individual academy how much extra they want to add after that. LAPD adds quite a bit of hours on most topics, especially tactics.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

LA Copper said:


> Here in Califronia from what I've seen, POST can "de-certify" an officer if they don't have the minimum amount of in-service hours per year, which right now is at 24; if I remember correctly, it used to be 40 when I first came on the job.
> 
> As for the academy, POST mandates a certain ciriculum and minimum amount of hours of specific topics be taught statewide. It's up to the individual academy how much extra they want to add after that. LAPD adds quite a bit of hours on most topics, especially tactics.


Very true.

I can speak from experience on the CA POST waiver process. As LA Copper said, POST establishes the minimum number of hours for each "legislatively mandated" subject. As for waivers and exemptions, CA requires the set number of hours I mentioned above for approximately 2 dozen topics, without exception. If you're missing any of those hours, you are not eligible for a waiver or POST certification. The individual academies may add to those topics, but those hours, on those topics SHALL BE taught, and if applying for a waiver, the waiver applicant shall have completed those hours in those same topics.


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

new guy said:


> Have you ever testified in a trial or a motions hearing ? Defense attorneys have been trying to make Campus Police Officers look like incompetent fools on the stand since the begining of our existence. It's a right of passage in this field.


 Drop the campus and it is even more true...


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

Wyoming? Wow that's pertinent to Mass.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2013)

That's par for this career. If you can't handle that, stop making arrests and work more road jobs. 

I've never been belittled because I work at a college, only simply because I was wearing a badge. 

Not a single fuck is given though, because I've never lost in court. That's right! Not once have they ever failed to pay me for going. Regardless of any decisions, I always win.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2013)

BxDetSgt said:


> Wyoming? Wow that's pertinent to Mass.


I'm sure they say the same about us or any other state.

Police training models vary, but they're all relative to states regardless of population, department size, or tooth count.


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

I disagree, urban law enforcement training needs to be different from Wyoming F&G. When you patrol a large, rural area with backup possibly an hour away you need to have a different mindset from an urban street cop. Discretion is used in different ways in both areas. Community interaction is different, and percieved diferently. It is not the same job, and should not be trained the same way.


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## Guest (Apr 2, 2013)

At least 50% of massachsuetts is "Rural" with limited and delayed backup, and there are urban parts of Wyoming and every other state. Should there be two academy curriculum in every state: city life and wildlife?


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

No. but the overall demographics of Wyoming are completely different from Mass. I am just questioning WTF this guys background is to run a large Northeastern LETC after running a small, western LETC. There is no comparrison between "rural" Mass. and "rural" Wyoming.


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## new guy (Sep 16, 2005)

BxDetSgt said:


> Drop the campus and it is even more true...


Very true. I was going to mention that as well but in the spirit of brevity I stayed on point.


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

BxDetSgt said:


> No. but the overall demographics of Wyoming are completely different from Mass. I am just questioning WTF this guys background is to run a large Northeastern LETC after running a small, western LETC. There is no comparrison between "rural" Mass. and "rural" Wyoming.


He's got more practical and relevant experience than many of the other Governor appointees...and even some Sheriffs.


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## Inspector71 (Sep 30, 2007)

frank said:


> He's got more practical and relevant experience than many of the other Governor appointees...and even some Sheriffs.


But would he waiver out of SSPO???? Just wondering?


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## NEPS (Aug 29, 2006)

frank said:


> He's got more practical and relevant experience than many of the other Governor appointees...and even some Sheriffs.


Amen! I say, thank goodness the guy is from way out of state.

Besides, what decent, experienced Massachusetts candidate that you would want in this job would take this job? It is a state job in the pension system, so no sane, long serving cop would take the job because that officer would have to leave group 4 and go into group 1 and add 10 more years of service until he/she could pull the pin. There are probably some in private (campus) law enforcement in the state who could do well in the job, but then municipal cops would be saying, "What is a wannabe doing in charge of training for _real_ cops in Massachusetts."


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## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

_"There are probably some in private (campus) law enforcement in the state who could do well in the job, but then municipal cops would be saying, "What is a wannabe doing in charge of training for real cops in Massachusetts."_
I doubt we will be hearing that from anyone for a long time...RIP Sean, you made us all proud.


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2013)

NEPS said:


> Amen! I say, thank goodness the guy is from way out of state.
> 
> Besides, what decent, experienced Massachusetts candidate that you would want in this job would take this job? It is a state job in the pension system, so no sane, long serving cop would take the job because that officer would have to leave group 4 and go into group 1 and add 10 more years of service until he/she could pull the pin. There are probably some in private (campus) law enforcement in the state who could do well in the job, but then municipal cops would be saying, "What is a wannabe doing in charge of training for _real_ cops in Massachusetts."


I don't care what agency someone works for, I care about their EXPERIENCE (NOT training) with the subject matter that they're presenting to me.

For example, I wouldn't have much use for a state trooper lecturing to me about domestics, or a city anti-crime cop lecturing to me about traffic enforcement. You have to be selective about your audience......one of the things I liked about my police academy is that the people teaching about domestics during the day actually went to them at night.

I can learn something from any other cop, but there has to be some credibility when they're in an official training position if I'm expected to take them seriously.


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## NEPS (Aug 29, 2006)

BxDetSgt said:


> _"There are probably some in private (campus) law enforcement in the state who could do well in the job, but then municipal cops would be saying, "What is a wannabe doing in charge of training for real cops in Massachusetts."_
> I doubt we will be hearing that from anyone for a long time...RIP Sean, you made us all proud.


My post was before the cowardly murder of Off. Sean Collier. I can only _hope_ that all of Massachusetts law enforcement recalls Off. Collier's death as evidence that any person in the state wearing the word "police" on a badge or patch can be murdered _just_ for that word.

I meant, of course, that an experienced campus police executive could, in theory, do a good job as the state's director of police training and might even take the job because he would not be sacrificing a group 4 pension to do so.

My fear is that, in this state, cops are too oriented towards crapping on other "lesser" cops to tolerate a campus cop as the executive director of the MPTC.

Yeah, some of us have more experience with terrible crimes than others, and, yeah, this often reflects the geographic (campus or municipal) we happen to patrol, But we are not inherently better merely because we are appointed a "City of Boston" or "Massachusetts State" police officer than we are because we are appointed an "Town of Alford" or "MIT" police officer. What matters to begin with is that we went to a regular police academy and then what devotion to duty we exhibit and last what experience we have and how well we understand our personal strengths and limitations.

Spoken by a proud municipal and proud former campus police officer (a couple of pops in, perhaps).


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2013)

NEPS said:


> My post was before the cowardly murder of Off. Sean Collier. I can only _hope_ that all of Massachusetts law enforcement recalls Off. Collier's death as evidence that any person in the state wearing the word "police" on a badge or patch can be murdered _just_ for that word.


4:02-4:14


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## Inspector71 (Sep 30, 2007)

[quote="BxDetSgt, post: 750250, member: 18887
I doubt we will be hearing that from anyone for a long time...RIP Sean, you made us all proud.[/quote]

Amen to that!


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