# Constable Under 21 Covered by LEOSA?



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

In Massachusetts, constables are sworn law enforcement officers, but you can become one at the age of 18. According to the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act law any sworn LEO can carry a firearm off duty but it doesn't specify whether or not you have to be 21 blah blah blah you get the point. So are constables under 21 Covered under this law?


----------



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

Its a good question, I think you first need to be in state and department compliance first. You can be a fully sworn police officer under MGL Chapter 41 section 98 nothing in the law mandates you have to have a firearm to execute your duties as a police officer.
there is this also
C140 S129 (o) 
Persons in the military or other service of any state or of the United States, and police officers and other peace officers of any jurisdiction, in the performance of their official duty or when duly authorized to possess them;


----------



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

RodneyFarva said:


> Its a good question, I think you first need to be in state and department compliance first. You can be a fully sworn police officer under MGL Chapter 41 section 98 nothing in the law mandates you have to have a firearm to execute your duties as a police officer.
> there is this also
> C140 S129 (o)
> Persons in the military or other service of any state or of the United States, and police officers and other peace officers of any jurisdiction, in the performance of their official duty or when duly authorized to possess them;


So by this does it mean a constable could carry a handgun while "on duty " even if they don't have a license to carry? Because that's what it seems like from the excerpt you cited


----------



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

well, where would a constable in Massachusetts obtain any police powers from? who is the appointing authority?


----------



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

The Constable like the Sheriff derives his/her power from Common Law and Statutory Law under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 41 Section 91-95 and the Sheriff under Chapter 37 of the Massachusetts General Law. They're not attached for a municipal or county department


----------



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

SamYoung said:


> The Constable like the Sheriff derives his/her power from Common Law and Statutory Law under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 41 Section 91-95 and the Sheriff under Chapter 37 of the Massachusetts General Law. They're not attached for a municipal or county department


Then who appoints someone to constable? those are the people or persons you would need to ask.


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Aren't Constables appointed by local authorities? I'm just wondering, though I can guess it's not that simple.


----------



## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

There are two types of constables in Massachusetts. One type works directly for the City or Town that appoints them and they are restricted from serving any process that is not directly related to the government business of the municipality that appoints them. Some municipalities appoint city employees such as building inspectors as constables because they occasionally might need to serve civil or criminal process directly related to their job. I am appointed as a constable in the town I am a police officer in. I occasionally perform this duty when needed on behalf of the town. I do not have a "bond" which is required of private constables that serve private civil process such as evictions and divorces. These are private companies that are in business. I think it would be hard to stretch them into LEOSA.


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

There was a LEOSA case where a Constable from Pennsylvania while serving an ARREST WARRANT from his jurisdiction in NYC was jammed up by NYPD. Case was tossed by by Court that stated he was LEO authorized by a government agency to *carry a gun* and had *criminal arrest powers
RODRIGUEZ v. CITY OF NEW | 649 F.Supp.2d 301 (2009) | pp2d3011935 | Leagle.com*

In addition the Constable sued, which was awesome, but he ultimately lost, but made the DA's look like poop. Here in Mass, you had best be able to show clearly you are authorized to carry a gun by a governmental entity AND be making some sort of "arrest". Don't believe serving civil process is any form of apprehension, detainment, or arrest................


----------



## MPD703 (Sep 25, 2004)

I think the issue for the OP is if he could as an 18 year old constable carrry under LEOSA and I would say no. Under LEOSA the person needs to be authorized to carry a firearm and if that cant happen until you are 21 you cant benefit from LEOSA until then. The issue of the the constable position being eligible for LEOSA is a different issue. While a MA constable may be covered during the period they are active I don’t see how a MA constable would meet the retired standard.


----------



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

MPD703 said:


> I think the issue for the OP is if he could as an 18 year old constable carrry under LEOSA and I would say no. Under LEOSA the person needs to be authorized to carry a firearm and if that cant happen until you are 21 you cant benefit from LEOSA until then. The issue of the the constable position being eligible for LEOSA is a different issue. While a MA constable may be covered during the period they are active I don't see how a MA constable would meet the retired standard.


The other thing that brings up is that Military Police Officers enlisted in the national guard under 21 ARE covered under LEOSA and can carry without an LTC when off duty, and it was determined by one of the high courts in Massachusetts that even though they were under the age to carry a handgun that they could carry because of how the law is worded.


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Military has their own rules. For example a truck driver in the military does not need to have a CDL license to operate an 18 wheeler on public streets as long as he’s doing it in his military capacity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

If I ever get a Guard MP carrying a pistol without an LTC I’m taking him. Unless you can give me case law to the contrary.


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

The laws apparently changed. I had an LTC at 19 when I was an Auxiliary.

Hey, I wonder if my first LTC is worth something, it's signed by Theodore Roosevelt!

WTF, He never had anything to do with Mass.!!!! I WAS HAD!


----------



## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Javert said:


> If I ever get a Guard MP carrying a pistol without an LTC I'm taking him. Unless you can give me case law to the contrary.


You don't need case law. They're good to go if they meet the qualifications under LEOSA. The law was updated in 2013 so that they qualify.


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

My question would be how was it obtained (ie a pistol.) If the kid is -21 then no LTC and he could not have gotten it from a dealer. Also, a private sale would not be legal (at least in MA.) I’ll admit I’m no firearm law expert but something smells a little whackerish if we have -21 Guard/Reserve MPs running around packing heat and citing LEOSA.


----------



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

Javert said:


> smells a little whackerish if we have -21 Guard/Reserve MPs running around packing heat and citing LEOSA.


Well MPs _are _federal police officers. Doesn't really matter how young they are.



j809 said:


> Military has their own rules. For example a truck driver in the military does not need to have a CDL license to operate an 18 wheeler on public streets as long as he's doing it in his military capacity.


That doesn't really have anything to do with a federal law regarding carrying off duty.


----------



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

Javert said:


> My question would be how was it obtained (ie a pistol.) If the kid is -21 then no LTC and he could not have gotten it from a dealer. Also, a private sale would not be legal (at least in MA.) I'll admit I'm no firearm law expert but something smells a little whackerish if we have -21 Guard/Reserve MPs running around packing heat and citing LEOSA.


Issued by the appointing authority?


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

If a NG/AR MP is carrying on drill time that’s one thing of course. I thought we were discussing a situation where a kid was carrying a gun on his own time while being -21. Who would be the appointing authority? The NG? Do they get take home 9s? I would just be concerned with a 17 year old fresh out of AIT walking around with a firearm and I’m not gonna lie...I’d post him up until I knew for damn sure that everything was legal.


----------



## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Javert said:


> If I ever get a Guard MP carrying a pistol without an LTC I'm taking him. Unless you can give me case law to the contrary.


Why would you!!!!


----------



## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Here's a little more info to confuse you. I license for my department and in my opinion their covered . I'm not locking up a guy/girl serving our country for carrying when their allowed. Just my 2.

Does the LEOSA Carry Law Apply to You?


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

As I stated, I’m not a law expert and that People V Booth case in the article you posted seems to prove me wrong. At the same time something just doesn’t feel right. How would they have acquired the firearm? Is it registered and if so then to who? At the end of the day, the 17 y/o right out of AIT can’t walk out of four seasons with anything. My barracks were right next to the local friendly MPs when I was in and believe me...they were just as young, drunk and stupid as we were. Im all for carrying and can appreciate what these guys are doing but id be a little concerned if I ever get tinned by a 17 y/o MP carrying. And sorry... but he’s not leaving until I’m 100% satisfied he’s in the right.


----------



## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Javert said:


> As I stated, I'm not a law expert and that People V Booth case in the article you posted seems to prove me wrong. At the same time something just doesn't feel right. How would they have acquired the firearm? Is it registered and if so then to who? At the end of the day, the 17 y/o right out of AIT can't walk out of four seasons with anything. My barracks were right next to the local friendly MPs when I was in and believe me...they were just as young, drunk and stupid as we were. Im all for carrying and can appreciate what these guys are doing but id be a little concerned if I ever get tinned by a 17 y/o MP carrying. And sorry... but he's not leaving until I'm 100% satisfied he's in the right.


I guess they could always have borrowed the gun. I agree with the whole age thing but at the end of the day our politicians need to write the law in a clear and concise way. I have guys I work with who think I can't carry in dc or nyc. Well I'm Flying out Friday to dc so we'll see.


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

What you FEEL, and what the law SAYS, are two different things. Feelings aren’t law. While I understand and agree, it’s case law now.


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

In order to be covered under LEOSA you need to be in state compliance, I.e, no hollow points in NJ, or no more than 6 rounds in NYC (not sure on NYC comment, just an example) and every state has a 21 year old age restriction on handguns. So I’d say not until your 21 bud. It’ll come before you know it. Don’t get jammed up under 21 in a gray area, especially in New England with the G word (gun....) because then you’ll never get on the job.


----------



## AS4 (Apr 5, 2014)

SamYoung said:


> In Massachusetts, constables are sworn law enforcement officers, but you can become one at the age of 18. According to the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act law any sworn LEO can carry a firearm off duty but it doesn't specify whether or not you have to be 21 blah blah blah you get the point. So are constables under 21 Covered under this law?


You would have to work directly for the city, not just be licensed by the city (i.e paying a couple hundred bucks and getting thrown a constable badge).

Furthermore, in this state, constables don't have the best reputation (use the search engine). Much respect for the ones who stay within their bounds, but a quick google search will show countless MA constables dressed up like tactical boogeymen. All in all, I think LEOSA coverage is a stretch--and a P.O who stumbles across your path might not agree with your interpretation. Just a thought


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Once again we have people willing to eat their own young. LEOSA is the law. Javert Please stop putting your arm-chair layer + personal feelings into efforts to make "whackers" out of citizens soldiers who may have to go deploy to lay THEIR LIVES on the line to defend YOUR Constitutional rights and freedoms. Whatever your feelings LEOSA is, in the practicum, a FEDERAL LTC for government appointed/sworn LEO's. Municipal, County, State, Federal, Military whatever. Regardless of pimples, skin tone, or gender. I'm too disappointed right now to cite you the case law that SPECIFICALLY answers your question. It relates to a Coast Guard reservist arrested for possession of a Glock handgun in his vehicle. The Courts threw it out, even though the kid was a bit of a dink when stopped, because of..........LEOSA.

If I ever come across this, If they don't have warrants or open felony charges, what's the big deal even?


----------



## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

There are numerous Mass General Laws granting constables the power of arrest and the appointment of constables is clearly established through statue as well. Constables ARE sworn law enforcement officers under both statutory and common law therefore if they have qualified with their weapon and are carrying their law enforcement credentials what would be the argument that they are NOT covered under LEOSA?
General Law - Part I, Title XVII, Chapter 120, Section 13
General Law - Part I, Title VII, Chapter 41, Section 91
General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 272, Section 54
General Law - Part IV, Title I, Chapter 266, Section 120
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleVIII/Chapter56/Section57


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Great info, but in all those cases the “accused” (which I use lightly) were all over 21.


----------



## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

Requirements of all Student Officers
According to Mass.gov a student officer has to be 18 years old to attend the part-time police academy. Is there a statute preventing persons under the age of 21 from becoming a police officer or deputy sheriff?


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Good point. But if they are under 21, they must leave their firearm at the agency headquarters or barracks. Where would a constable do that?


----------



## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

Does LEOSA prevent an officer under the age of 21 from carrying their firearm? If not a sworn LEO would be allowed to carry their firearm anywhere regardless of their age under the Federal Statute. There are states which allow persons to become police officers who are under the age of 21.


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

MPD the case you are referring to is People V Booth. I was directed to that earlier in the thread and reversed my “arm chair lawyer” legal opinion upon reading it. You should have been able to pick up on that. While, as I also already stated, I appreciate what these kids do, please spare me the whole “putting their lives on the line” thing. I did it 3 times and still may have many more until retirement. How many times did you get orders?

As I stated, I would simply be very interested where said firearm would have came from.


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Javert said:


> MPD the case you are referring to is People V Booth. I was directed to that earlier in the thread and reversed my "arm chair lawyer" legal opinion upon reading it. You should have been able to pick up on that. While, as I also already stated, I appreciate what these kids do, please spare me the whole "putting their lives on the line" thing. I did it 3 times and still may have many more until retirement. How many times did you get orders?
> 
> As I stated, I would simply be very interested where said firearm would have came from.


Or why it's not stored there when they are not on official duty.


----------



## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

Kilvinsky said:


> The laws apparently changed. I had an LTC at 19 when I was an Auxiliary!


The law must have changed because I had my LTC in MA when I was 18. While I couldn't purchase a handgun until I was 21, per federal law, however I could lawfully carry a handgun concealed. I could also carry a firearm as a deputy sheriff prior to turning 21.


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

I’m concerned that the OP may be trying to self-Constable. Can it be done in MA?


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Javert said:


> MPD the case you are referring to is People V Booth. I was directed to that earlier in the thread and reversed my "arm chair lawyer" legal opinion upon reading it. You should have been able to pick up on that. While, as I also already stated, I appreciate what these kids do,* please spare me the whole "putting their lives on the line" thing. I did it 3 times and still may have many more until retirement. How many times did you get orders?*
> *As I stated, I would simply be very interested where said firearm would have came from*.


Oh so you "did it three times"? Soooooo that makes you better than them , or me? Makes you more justified in jamming them up? What bug crawled up your shorts? What difference does it make where said firearm came from? LEOSA doesn't say you have to carry a department-issued firearm off-duty does it? Does it? As a veteran you're sworn to defend the constitution right? Try doing that and not worrying about getting so deep in the weeds to put the twist on somebody didn't ask for it.


----------



## 9319 (Jul 28, 2008)

Better? No. But I just personally don’t care for the romanticized “putting their lives on the line” John Wayne recruiting office crap anymore. I never met a kid while in who when asked why he joined answered “to defend the constitution” and I don’t think I ever will.

Am I not supposed to ask questions? I stop a NG/AR MP whose -21 and packing and I’m just supposed to give him the secret handshake and send him in his way? I wanna know where the gun came from. Who in their right mind tosses a kid a gun because he’s got a badge (that’s literally on sale for like $30 at Army Barracks on Rt. 1) and would let him hop around town with it. WHAT COULD GO WRONG??


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

AH HA GOTCHA! !!
So you're one of those guys who raises his hand at every training makes us all get out late
BLUE FALCON!!!


----------



## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)

Javert said:


> Better? No. But I just personally don't care for the romanticized "putting their lives on the line" John Wayne recruiting office crap anymore. I never met a kid while in who when asked why he joined answered "to defend the constitution" and I don't think I ever will.
> 
> Am I not supposed to ask questions? I stop a NG/AR MP whose -21 and packing and I'm just supposed to give him the secret handshake and send him in his way? I wanna know where the gun came from. Who in their right mind tosses a kid a gun because he's got a badge (that's literally on sale for like $30 at Army Barracks on Rt. 1) and would let him hop around town with it. WHAT COULD GO WRONG??


Who cares where the gun came from? If their covered by LEOSA(which they are) then let them be. Please don't try and twist the law to fit your logic.


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

SamYoung said:


> In Massachusetts, constables are sworn law enforcement officers, but you can become one at the age of 18. According to the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act law any sworn LEO can carry a firearm off duty but it doesn't specify whether or not you have to be 21 blah blah blah you get the point. So are constables under 21 Covered under this law?


LEOSA stipulates that you be authorized by your agency to carry a firearm on duty. You also have to be employed by a law enforcement agency, not simply have power of arrest. So, no.


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

Javert said:


> If I ever get a Guard MP carrying a pistol without an LTC I'm taking him. Unless you can give me case law to the contrary.


Be prepared for a lawsuit then. The military is issuing LEOSA creds now and it is in compliance with the law.


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

mpd61 said:


> AH HA GOTCHA! !!
> So you're one of those guys who raises his hand at every training makes us all get out late
> BLUE FALCON!!!


I used to be that guy.

Sorry


----------



## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

The concept of Constables in MA is an interesting one. They have powers of arrest in both civil and criminal cases. Constables are either elected by popular vote or appointed by a Mayor or Select board. Like a elected sheriff, an elected constable answers to the public who elected them. Elected constables are an independent law enforcement officers similar to a sheriff as they do not have a per se boss other than the voting public. Appointed constables are accountable to their appointing authority. The Office of Constable like the Office of Sheriff are considered the agency head of their agency (even if it is an agency of one) and are authorized to carry firearms. Constables like Sheriffs can "authorize" themselves to carry firearms in the performance of their duty.

The lack of uniformed training standards for constables in Mass is a major sticking point, as it should be. Mass should either mandate minimum training standards for constables and deputy sheriffs prior to authorizing either to enforce the laws of the Commonwealth or remove their common and statutory powers of arrest.

Interesting story on constables:
Constables armed and on duty, no training required


----------



## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

CapeSpecial said:


> LEOSA stipulates that you be authorized by your agency to carry a firearm on duty. You also have to be employed by a law enforcement agency, not simply have power of arrest. So, no.


This hits it right on the head. There are tons of jobs where you can have some sort of power of arrest but would not be law enforcement officers. School staff who are supervisors of attendance have full powers of arrest while they are investigating child labor law violations. If I am a school guidance counselor sworn in as a supervisor of attendance and I go out and get a gun permit and the school principal says its OK would I be covered under LEOSA? Working for a PRIVATE company as a constable is not being a law enforcement officer. Me thinks that in order to be covered under LEOSA you would have to be working directly for a law enforcement agency would authorizes you to carry a gun.

I was a campus police officer years ago and there was debate at the time whether or not we could carry high capacity magazines. There was talk at the time that we were going to be restricted. The argument was that we were "authorized" to have powers of arrest but that we were not law enforcement officers.


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

PBC FL Cop said:


> Requirements of all Student Officers
> According to Mass.gov a student officer has to be 18 years old to attend the part-time police academy. Is there a statute preventing persons under the age of 21 from becoming a police officer or deputy sheriff?


Yes the law was changed under Rome y where you have to be 21 to become a police officer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

j809 said:


> Yes the law was changed under Rome y where you have to be 21 to become a police officer.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Maybe for civil service but there are plenty of non-cs departments hiring kids under 21


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

No person shall be eligible to take an examination for original appointment to the position of firefighter or police officer in a city or town if the applicant will not have reached 19 years of age on or before the final date for the filing of applications for the examination, as so stated; provided, however, that an applicant who reached 19 years of age while serving on active military duty, who was not 19 on or before the date of an original examination, shall be eligible for any subsequent make up examination that is offered.

No person shall be eligible for original appointment to the position of police officer in a city or town until that person has reached the age of 21.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Also can’t attend full time academy until 21 on the mptc website


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

CapeSpecial said:


> Maybe for civil service but there are plenty of non-cs departments hiring kids under 21


Not full time as they can't attend academy. And they can't have an LTC, so they must carry under the badge which many Pds refuse to do anymore.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

j809 said:


> Not full time as they can't attend academy. And they can't have an LTC, so they must carry under the badge which many Pds refuse to do anymore.


Careful Yimmy,
Your blood pressure!


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

j809 said:


> No person shall be eligible to take an examination for original appointment to the position of firefighter or police officer in a city or town if the applicant will not have reached 19 years of age on or before the final date for the filing of applications for the examination, as so stated; provided, however, that an applicant who reached 19 years of age while serving on active military duty, who was not 19 on or before the date of an original examination, shall be eligible for any subsequent make up examination that is offered.
> 
> No person shall be eligible for original appointment to the position of police officer in a city or town until that person has reached the age of 21.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, that's civil service


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

j809 said:


> Not full time as they can't attend academy. And they can't have an LTC, so they must carry under the badge which many Pds refuse to do anymore.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How long ago did it change to not allow under 21 to the full time academy? My info was current as of 2014


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Let’s apply a little common sense for a second.. Ready? 

For some reason you end up dealing with somebody who is 18 years old and has a firearm on them. They show you some badge that says they are a constable in another state, or even MA for that matter. They do not have a license to carry, and when you ask him who his department head or boss is, so you can varify the credential of course because this is very odd and never seen before, and he says “me”. Your going to say “Okay, stay safe brother.” And just gonna let him drive or walk away????


----------



## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

No I’m gonna lock him up because a badge doesn’t mean anything under LEOSA, lol


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Touché. LOL


----------



## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

CapeSpecial said:


> How long ago did it change to not allow under 21 to the full time academy? My info was current as of 2014


I think they did it because it created problems with student officers and bringing firearms when they could not be licensed and they could Not carry under the badge as they were student officers. My academy, Milton had three guys in there and one was under 21. His classmates had to carry his gun and bring it back for firearms week.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Tuna (Jun 1, 2006)

Sam, just make sure you're wearing your hat when you carry. That should make you legal.


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

Damn Tuna! I forgot about the hat. Legit, yo.


----------



## Mcgarret (Mar 26, 2018)

So this may or may not be the right forum to post this question, but with regards to LEOSA and Massachusetts cops carrying off duty. Are they restricted to the "10 round limit" with their personal firearms when not "on duty" either in or out of state?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


----------



## 38bigblock (Nov 22, 2015)

Mcgarret said:


> So this may or may not be the right forum to post this question, but with regards to LEOSA and Massachusetts cops carrying off duty. Are they restricted to the "10 round limit" with their personal firearms when not "on duty" either in or out of state?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


I'd post it as a new thread in this section


----------



## SamYoung (Aug 13, 2018)

So what I've gathered is yes... but no. 
*
Yes*
Constables in the state of Massachusetts _are _covered by the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, but might be held by Officers until they can ensure they're complying with state/federal laws.

*No*
Being under the age to legally carry a firearm (although this is a grey area especially with MPs, as they're sworn federal officers) prohibits LEOSA from applying to you.


----------



## AS4 (Apr 5, 2014)

No, I will fix it for you:



SamYoung said:


> So what I've gathered is yes... but no.
> *
> NO*
> Constables in the state of Massachusetts _are *not *_covered by the Law Enforcement Officer's Safety Act, *and will be* held by Officers until they can ensure they're complying with state/federal laws.
> ...


----------



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

This would make great case law.


----------



## pctony (Oct 2, 2019)

SamYoung said:


> Well MPs _are _federal police officers. Doesn't really matter how young they are.
> 
> They are allowed to carry per the LEOSA
> Law lets certified troops carry concealed handguns
> ...


----------



## BxDetSgt (Jun 1, 2012)

A. If you are a 19 Y/O Mass. Constable you probably should NOT be carrying (just saying). There is not going to be ANY municipality that appoints a 19 y/o to be a Constable, and the private company constables are a whacker's wet dream, and you are going to viewed as suspicious until proven otherwise. Even if you think you can argue that you are covered under LEOSA I can think of no reason WHY you need to carry off duty other than you want to. It goes back to the age old question, why does a dog lick its balls?

B. I am probably going to spend more time checking on a 19 Y/O constable than a credentialed MP carrying.
But if either raises my suspicions I am going to dig in and check it out.


----------



## pctony (Oct 2, 2019)

BxDetSgt said:


> A. If you are a 19 Y/O Mass. Constable you probably should NOT be carrying (just saying). There is not going to be ANY municipality that appoints a 19 y/o to be a Constable, and the private company constables are a whacker's wet dream, and you are going to viewed as suspicious until proven otherwise. Even if you think you can argue that you are covered under LEOSA I can think of no reason WHY you need to carry off duty other than you want to. It goes back to the age old question, why does a dog lick its balls?
> 
> B. I am probably going to spend more time checking on a 19 Y/O constable than a credentialed MP carrying.
> But if either raises my suspicions I am going to dig in and check it out.


It goes without saying that not all of the officers across the country are going to be aware of the full details and legalities regarding LEOSA, and it's may not prudent to simply let someone go. It more than likely will end with gun confiscation and a court date at a minimum so a judge can make a ruling.


----------



## pctony (Oct 2, 2019)

This article is informative, but as stated elsewhere there is still much to learn.
NRA-ILA | Who Qualifies for the LEOSA Privilege?


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

pctony said:


> This article is informative, but as stated elsewhere there is still *TOO* much to learn.
> NRA-ILA | Who Qualifies for the LEOSA Privilege?


Fixed it for ya! LOL!!!!

This, coupled with the fact that too many of US are still looking to jam up folks as evidenced by the three revisions so far.
It needs to be kept simple on the prongs of Government entity/agency, authorized to arrest, authorized to carry while doing it. I am a LEOSA instructor, have experience with this in reviewing case law pertaining to Military Title 10 LEO's, Civilian Title 5 LEO's, (DoD) FEDs ranging from 1811's to Park rangers, VA Police, Postal inspectors, Amtrak and other RR Cops, Campus Cops, reserves, Sworn Auxiliaries, and yes, even Constables (in states like Texas and Pennsylvania)
Guess what? I still don't know much more than basics, and case law will continue to be made from LEOSA. Peace out!


----------



## pctony (Oct 2, 2019)

The fun never ends. A universal all state LTC would be nice! I’m not holding my breath. But you can drive your car in every state with one license. So it goes.


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

mpd61 said:


> Fixed it for ya! LOL!!!!
> 
> This, coupled with the fact that too many of US are still looking to jam up folks as evidenced by the three revisions so far.
> It needs to be kept simple on the prongs of Government entity/agency, authorized to arrest, authorized to carry while doing it. I am a LEOSA instructor, have experience with this in reviewing case law pertaining to Military Title 10 LEO's, Civilian Title 5 LEO's, (DoD) FEDs ranging from 1811's to Park rangers, VA Police, Postal inspectors, Amtrak and other RR Cops, Campus Cops, reserves, Sworn Auxiliaries, and yes, even Constables (in states like Texas and Pennsylvania)
> Guess what? I still don't know much more than basics, and case law will continue to be made from LEOSA. Peace out!


Yeah...but is your resume three pages long?


----------



## Inspector71 (Sep 30, 2007)

Ron Glidden, the retired chief (NOT a lawyer) is still spreading his anti-LEOSA BS everywhere to Mass Chiefs too!


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

If he comes out here, I’ll hook him up for you,


----------



## Joe1231913 (Jun 5, 2007)

I think in the case of a -21yo constable, LEOSA would be successfully applied as an affirmative defense. I believe they are covered, based on the Rodriguez case law out of NYC. In that case, it states that constables are "independant contractors" which is, if I am not mistaken, the same as Mass...

The issue of where an under 21 constable may have gotten the gun is separate, IMO. I mean, if you determine that the constable is legally allowed to possess it under LEOSA, why would the "where did he get it" factor come into play? I would be generally curious myself, as an FFL and a gun guy, but I dont think I would be willing to hang someone up on it just because I may be curious.


----------



## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

Javert said:


> If I ever get a Guard MP carrying a pistol without an LTC I'm taking him. Unless you can give me case law to the contrary.


 I believe they can. I know for USAF Security Forces, they tell you that you can carry under leosa.


----------



## MPD703 (Sep 25, 2004)

FindLaw's New York County Court case and opinions.
I don't know of any cases that involved MPs but the Booth case involved a USCG boarding officer who was arrested for carrying a firearm and the court found that he met the requirements under LEOSA to lawfully carry. I think the issue with MPs will be the required credential. I know many of the services have rolled out LEOSA ID cards so I guess it is possible that the MP could have one and be covered under LEOSA. Without the ID card the MP is SOL.


----------



## pctony (Oct 2, 2019)

They amended LEOSA in 2013 to include military police, national guard, etc. Being safe comes first and local PD's need to be aware of what's required. They have been sued for substantial amounts of money for false arrest, weapon confiscation, and court costs.

LEO Officers Safety Act Allows Military Police to Concealed Carry


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Speaking as a PRIVATE POLICE OFFICER, I can honestly say that I would NEVER arrest a member of our military who was carrying while in uniform. I'm a life long civilian and have way too much respect for ANYONE who dons that uniform, regardless of the branch or section to give them a hard time. That's just me talking for me.

As for in plain clothes, I can't think of a reason I'd lock 'em up even if they were off duty. I may catch hell for it from my inferiors (superiors? Whatever) but I'd be quicker to say, "Hey, could you not carry on campus and put a lot of us at ill ease?" than "Hands against the wall, dirtbag!"


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Kilvinsky said:


> Speaking as a PRIVATE POLICE OFFICER, I can honestly say that I would NEVER arrest a member of our military who was carrying while in uniform. I'm a life long civilian and have way too much respect for ANYONE who dons that uniform, regardless of the branch or section to give them a hard time. That's just me talking for me.
> 
> As for in plain clothes, I can't think of a reason I'd lock 'em up even if they were off duty. I may catch hell for it from my inferiors (superiors? Whatever) but I'd be quicker to say, "Hey, could you not carry on campus and put a lot of us at ill ease?" than "Hands against the wall, dirtbag!"


Was going to echo these sentiments exactly Maybe we're a different generation .
Hell , I've even taking care of recruiters


----------

