# Probationary issue question



## Lookinforacopjob (Sep 9, 2008)

Hypothetical question here. Say I am on probation until August 2012 And say I am currently in the middle of an internal affairs investigation . If my department has not fired me by the end of my probationary period am I in the clear under civil service law. GO!


----------



## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

So, what dept is soon to be hiring?

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk


----------



## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

In reality, August is still a long way away. I hate hypothetical questions.


----------



## sdb29 (Jul 17, 2002)

Negative


----------



## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

LECSniper said:


> Well. There's always McDonald's. Just be careful not to get forced into prostitution !!!!!!!


Ouch


----------



## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

The answer is Alan Mcdonald , Southborough Ma.


----------



## firefighter39 (Apr 10, 2006)

maybe this link may be of help

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/careers/working_here.html


----------



## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

No, but if they really want to screw with you, they'll wrap it up the day before.


----------



## Macop (May 2, 2002)

You should have no problem unless they extend your probation before it ends, or just fire you while your still on probation.


----------



## sdb29 (Jul 17, 2002)

Unless this is an incredibly complex case it'll be wrapped up before August 2012. Or at least your portion will be.


----------



## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

sdb29 is right. Even if they accuse you of murder its all over but the trial before August.


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

from what i've seen in the past they will try and get rid of you before your probation ends because there is no recourse for termination during probation.

not a labor law expert , but my guess would be if you did finish probation your union ( hopefully you have a decent one ) would protect you and you would get the appropriate suspension for the infraction.

of course this might put a bullseye on your back and would not be pleasant working under those conditions.

it all comes down to whether they like you or not


----------



## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Your "friend" is shit out of luck, do not pass go


----------



## FAPD (Sep 30, 2007)

Resign quick!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Lookinforacopjob (Sep 9, 2008)

Lecsniper. That ass is unreal!

And it really is a friend. I am not stupid enough to post my own shit on here. 

Gmass. Hypothetically it may or could have been excessive force. Hypothetically. 

Ok so besides the McDonald's application, it's my understanding if he makes it to his probation date he is covered by civil circus and his union? 

Fapd hes not going to resign because no one will hire him because of course chiefs talk and they are going to make that off the record phone call. He's going to fight it..


----------



## Macop (May 2, 2002)

It could go a number of ways, I guess it just depends on the department and the case.


----------



## frapmpd24 (Sep 3, 2004)

I was reading an SJC case recently that addressed a similar issue in back in 2000, which is still good precedent. A Boston PD officer was placed on administrative leave toward the end of his probationary period because of a domestic and when he came back after the year probation period, he argued that his probationary period had elapsed. Civil Service and the Superior Court agreed. The SJC overruled holding that the administrative leave "tolled"' his time. 

There is no such thing as "administrative leave" under civil service (M.G.L. Ch. 31), so it amounts to a suspension.

A separate case clarified that the appointing authority can call it what they want (i.e: administrative leave, suspension, or some other fancy name) and set the terms (paid or unpaid), but it "tolls" (stops or freezes) the persons time.

So if your buddy comes back, his probationary period should be extended by the amount of time he was suspended. A suspension by civil service definition is an "involuntarily separation", from employment. Therefore if someone is out on admin leave it's difficult to argue that the time counts toward the persons service. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

it was my understanding if you went "off the books" you lost that time because you would have to work extra days at the end of your career to make up for them.

my guess would be if you went 30 days you would lose your seniority with your classmates

interesting that Boston PD case was brought up. we had a guy hired by Boston, went 11 months, got hurt, supposedly got the wrong info, stayed out too long without contacting the PD and was terminated.

he was a bit of a smart ass and me thinks that didn't help his case. far worse things have happened with Boston or any department for that matter. discipline is not always handed out evenly


----------



## FAPD (Sep 30, 2007)

pahapoika said:


> it far worse things have happened with Boston or any department for that matter. discipline is not always handed out evenly


Or even with _*just cause*_, like at Massasoit


----------



## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

GMass said:


> So under that SJC decision if two officers are hired on the same date and one party is granted seniority by test score / academy average / whatever they use, but is then put on "admin leave" for one day because he is involved in an on-duty shooting though is then immediately cleared and returned to full duty status, he looses seniority because it "tolls" his time because CS law consideres that an involuntary separation and the other hired police officer is employed for one day longer?


 Exactamundo. My place gives you a choice (dependent on the severity of your tranfsgression), either suspension or punishment tour. Most guys take a punishment day (work a shift for no compensation) rather than lose any seniority. If you went through the academy with three guys and you were top of the seniority for those guys, you'd get bumped to the bottom of the three if you took suspension time.


----------



## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

GMass said:


> Wow.
> Ok, what about a situation like an on-duty shooting? What do they do with the officer? Desk?


I can't say what they do with you, simply because I don't know anyone who has ever been involved in a shooting.

My example is for the people who get jammed up by their own hand, doing stupid things. I'm guessing in your example they send you out for debriefing or head shrinking or whatever.


----------



## Deuce (Sep 27, 2003)

Lookinforacopjob said:


> And it really is a friend. I am not stupid enough to post my own shit on here...


If it ain't you, why you sweating it? MYOB.....


----------

