# Why not OnStar that can disable a car?



## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Ok so OnStar can open your locks, report an accident, help locate stolen vehicles...why not have make it so it can disable the fuel lines or something?
It would seem to be a very simple thing.


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## Jeep (Aug 19, 2004)

There was something similar developed in the late 90's ( I don't remember what it was called). It was chip that was designed to be added to the computer systems of automobiles at the factory. A device in police cruisers could be activated, which would shut down the engine of the vehicle being pursued. Basically a good idea, but the pursued vehicles lost their power steering &amp; power brakes in the process. Ford briefly considered it, until the testing showed the above failures. No manufacturer ever put it in a production vehicle.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

I think the latest version can prevent the car from being re-started. The trouble with the system is that it communicates coordinates of the vehicle: all this whining about the 'big brother' patriot act, but the lemmings sign-up in droves for a system capable of reporting there travels! :?!

Besides which: if your vehicle is stolen...why would you want it back? Some kid has been out doing '4 grand hole shots (8 grand if they have 2blue4u's car...oh wait: it's not a mopar, so 6 grand  ), j-turns, donuts and running from the man.'! Do you really want it back? I don't: let the insurance company total it...I'd rather spend a couple of bucks and get a car I knew wasn't abused then wonder when the transmission in my stolen/recovered vehicle was going to go...just a thought. :shock:

Posted Sat 25 Sep, 2004:

Jeep, just a thought: in our litigious society, how far would an idea get that killed the brakes/steering...civil-city!  Not far!


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## stm4710 (Jul 6, 2004)

It is a huge liability haveing a LEO shutting down a vehicle in pursuit where he/she would have tunnel vision and the target vehicle loseing its critical functions like brakeing............
I always liked the road patriot my self, or the stop sticks with the HV shock technolgy that fry the ignition.

Aint no one going to put a computer in my car that can track me (I dont even like it when my father or GF asks me where I am going) or slow me down. I the consumer will control the manufacters and indirectly the goverment via lobbyiests by not purchaseing the vehicle with that technology------Detroit and Washington will listen. 

Remember, the politicans and companys that seek to control how and what each of us may drive or watch or listen too are a far greater danger to America and our tresured freedoms than any suspect,talk show host or shock jock will ever be.


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## Dan H (Sep 22, 2004)

When the vehicle is shutdown your power brakes will only work well until you run out of vacuum in the brake booster. You will also loose your power steering. That wouldn't be too safe at most any speed.' From the tech standpoint it would be much better if by way of onstar they could dump the vehicle into "limp in" mode. That's what happens in most modern cars if it sees certain sensors way out of range, so every schmo knows something is wrong and can still get it to the dealer. Usually limits the car to about 30mph and takes forever to accelerate to there. If that doesn't get them to stop at least you can easily PIT the fool at 30 instead of ludicrous speed.


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## Jeep (Aug 19, 2004)

I agree that the chip was a bad idea. I'm sure that's why it never progressed beyond the testing stages. 

As far as the government being able to track us, I doubt that they'd need OnStar to do so. If we aren't already hardwired into society enough, we have cell phones w/ GPS chips built into them (they've always been able to be tracked via triangulation anyway), and credit &amp; debit cards have been tracked for years. More than likely there's technologies that we don't even know about tracking many of us on a daily basis.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Ok what about this...why not OnStar that can limit the MPH a car can go or have a smart chip OnStar that will slow the car to a crawl.
It could be ground activated by police so that THEY know when to do it, each OnStar chip has a unique SSID and the police could carry around a disable transmitter.

Cars ripping down the highway and through streets at breakneck speeds are more dangerous than a car running down slowly to 5 miles per hour and then losing all power.


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

See quite a few theories here.

Working in a position that has me a a a liasion with the Onstar Organization as well as GM I will offer the following. 

Onstar would never provide the services as outlined above. Although it is technically possible to do so, There service is a consumer based model, with that being the case if they provided these services to LE then I would bet you would have less subscibers opting for the service for obvious reasons. 

More importantly, In order to locate a Onstar equipped vehicle, You must provide Onstar with a vehicle Identifier, VIN # or Onstar account Info. in order for them to find it, Since you do not have either they would be unable to assist.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

If someone is carjacked or of their car is stolen and equiped with OnStar, they sure do know their VIN or can get their OnStar ID.

Cop pulls up to the driveway, "Officer my car was stolen" 
Do you know your VIN or OnStar ID,?
No.
To whom was the car registered and was it at this address?
Yes
Checks RMV records, gets the VIN, calls OnStar.

Same could be said for any stolen car...in fact the OnStar commercials run where they find the stolen car and the lady has NO IDEA about any of her info...she infact calls OnStar first and just gives them her SSN and they pull up her account.



ghostrider @ Wed 29 Sep said:


> See quite a few theories here.
> 
> Working in a position that has me a a a liasion with the Onstar Organization as well as GM I will offer the following.
> 
> ...


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

Hey, how about 'keep the car'...I don't want it back after somebody has beat-the-shit out of it or hit something! Give me a new car, and shut-up! 8)


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

dcs2244 @ Wed Sep 29 said:


> Hey, how about 'keep the car'...I don't want it back after somebody has beat-the-shit out of it or hit something! Give me a new car, and shut-up! 8)


I was thinking the same thing.... I sure the hell don't want my car back after it's been trashed and beat on... Unless it's going to be in the exact or better shape than it was when they took off with it...


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

1. That's what insurance is for
2. Being able to stop a car without doing a high speed chaces is more important than one persons car.



RPD931 @ Thu 30 Sep said:


> dcs2244 @ Wed Sep 29 said:
> 
> 
> > Hey, how about 'keep the car'...I don't want it back after somebody has beat-the-shit out of it or hit something! Give me a new car, and shut-up! 8)
> ...


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

SOT II

My point is they will not disable the car for you. Onstar has many ways of pulling up a vehicle record to iniatiate a track of a reported stolen vehicle as requested by LE in efforts to recover it, Once they locate it they will inform LE of its location, assuming it is not in a garage or a shiiping container headed to South America.

Plate # ( If in account file )
Phone number of Account holder
VIN 

They do not collect SS # so I can not comment on that.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Sure they collect SS#'s I had to provide one with the service and if I don't have my card...I can get OnStar to pop my locks.

And again, the issue is WHY NOT...I know they don't now...but it would seem like the next logical step. We've address the liability...just slow the car down, we've address the commercial aspects...you are being tracked everywhere you go with Onstar in the car...so who cares...slowing the vehicle down would not be as bad as shutting it off if thats what so many are worried about...so it would seem to be technically feasible, legally practical, and safer all around for all parties concerned.



ghostrider @ Fri 01 Oct said:


> SOT II
> 
> My point is they will not disable the car for you. Onstar has many ways of pulling up a vehicle record to iniatiate a track of a reported stolen vehicle as requested by LE in efforts to recover it, Once they locate it they will inform LE of its location, assuming it is not in a garage or a shiiping container headed to South America.
> 
> ...


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

SOT II

Good Luck with your theory. You obviously do not see the Why not reasons. 

Additionally, if you think that Onstar is tracking you, you have no idea on how the system works or what it's capabilities are.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Please it has location service built in, press the button it knows where you are. Make a call it knows where you are, airbags deploy, it knows where you are, report the car stolen it knows where it is...

So yeah it knows where you are, just as digital phone GPS and older analog "trakker" triangulation knows where you are. So big secret, GSM in call (with vin and account number as identifiers) and GPS in non call mode.

And again if it's a service and "privacy" issue that's one thing, but the safety issue is a non starter. The real problem is Chet just wasn't that creative, the focus of the product was to make it in car AOL when it could have a much broader safety impact. 
IBM's product can do it, can do it safely... Vonage can do it, heck ven TriaGnoSys GmbH has a product that will do it.

So don't tell me the technology doesn't exist, if the parent company GM doesn't want to play because they are banking on this junior telematics system turning into in car AOL..well that would be a "real" reason...not that it can't be done and can't be done safely.



ghostrider @ Fri 01 Oct said:


> SOT II
> 
> Good Luck with your theory. You obviously do not see the Why not reasons.
> 
> Additionally, if you think that Onstar is tracking you, you have no idea on how the system works or what it's capabilities are.


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## bosoxmanny (Sep 29, 2004)

Here guys here's a program thats been working great in my area that started in Arlington and has worked its way all over VA.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...ode=&contentId=A62681-2002Apr16&notFound=true


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

A company called S3 makes the exact same system for TANKER trucks and has used it to stop gas tankers in CA and AZ...I guess a tanker truck full of gas is less dangerous than a car...right...
Good find manny.



bosoxmanny @ Fri 01 Oct said:


> Here guys here's a program thats been working great in my area that started in Arlington and has worked its way all over VA.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/w...ode=&contentId=A62681-2002Apr16&notFound=true


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## ghostrider (May 29, 2003)

These systems have been in use in Canada for several years. Different application and differrnt BIZ model from Onstar is after at this stage.


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