# Say good bye to civil service



## MiamiVice

Baker bill aims to streamline state oversight of cities, towns - The Boston Globe

Ch.241 of the proposed law gives the local appointing authority the right to opt out of CS at any time.

Where's masscop, the nepba, on this one??????????

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## samadam78

So this means the board of selectman or city council can just vote to remove the town or city from civil service?


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## bok

Yes


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## felony

PD's have elected to get out of CS, through negotiations during contact time, for Quinn or Education incentives. With CS gone, it will only mean more nepotism. The town administrator/ mayor can now have a greater say in who is promoted/hired and if you get passed over, too bad. 

In my city, after you have taken a promotional exam and scored at the top, you now have to interview with the mayor, who will have the final say. If the Mayor doesn't like you, for whatever reason, then you wont get promoted. I see this becoming the norm in MA without CS protections.


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## MiamiVice

To dump civil service now requires union agreement, a vote by town meeting/city council and state legislation.

Soon, the mayor or town managers signature solely 

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## Patr8726

How many municipalities have opted out of CS already? Does anyone have stats on that?


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## LA Copper

Why would a mayor have any say in who gets promoted? Why isn't it the chief or the command staff of the department? Obviously that needs to be changed.


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## Mr Scribbles

LA Copper said:


> Why would a mayor have any say in who gets promoted? Why isn't it the chief or the command staff of the department? Obviously that needs to be changed.


Mike you've been out of Boston for waaaayyy too long my friend,LOL
Around here you don't get any of the coveted jobs or assignments unless you've got a relative/friend on the Command Staff, or a call comes from "The Hall". Seniority and merit are meaningless, this is not a square peg square hole Department. And as far as the smaller towns, I don't think anyone is surprised there's cronyism and nepotism going on.


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## Bloodhound

woodyd said:


> No stats here, but there has been a wave on towns leaving in the last five years. Wellesley started the trend in 2010, many followed suit. Off the top of my head, Burlington, Reading, Westwood, Acton, Maynard, likely Framingham in the near future.
> It's unfortunate, because Unions will lose the leverage that they previously had when the town wanted to leave CS. Burlington got full Quinn funding in return for leaving CS, most got something decent. Baker should return the support that he received from Police Unions by fulling funding Quinn, and reopening it to new hires.


Norwood, Walpole


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## Bloodhound

MiamiVice said:


> To dump civil service now requires union agreement, a vote by town meeting/city council and state legislation.
> 
> Soon, the mayor or town managers signature solely
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


It would eliminate the need for state legislation but would still require union agreement.


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## Johnny Law

You guys are surprised by this? This is the same state that created legislation to remove health insurance changes from collective bargaining. One more cowardly back door move


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## samadam78

as with anything else there are pros and cons... the strict hiring of CS leaves smaller towns and cities with a very limited hiring pool of sometimes not the best candidates while a guy with 5 years full time on the job in the town next door with a bachelors degree etc. cant even be considered for the job...


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## felony

LA Copper said:


> Why would a mayor have any say in who gets promoted? Why isn't it the chief or the command staff of the department? Obviously that needs to be changed.


That's Rhode Island my friend, nepotism runs rampant. The Chief/Command staff make recommendations to the Mayor, who then picks who she wants. It's a insane system.


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## LA Copper

It's very sad (and antiquated) that these things haven't changed after all these years. It was like that when I was trying to get on the job back there in the 80's. Bummer.


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## pahapoika

Think it's always been a rigged system, but when mumbles kid got on and now flaunts his little moon lighting business as a "safety engineer" you knew it was all over


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## Edmizer1

Bloodhound said:


> It would eliminate the need for state legislation but would still require union agreement.


I'm not so sure about needing union agreement. It would be a change in working conditions but if its a state law than most likely it wouldn't be subject to collective bargaining. Its sort of like the health care changes made a few years ago. Those were not subject to collective bargaining.

If the bill passes, it will eventually doom civil service. I estimate that about 10 departments a year are dropping out already.


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## Goose

Edmizer1 said:


> If the bill passes, it will eventually doom civil service. I estimate that about 10 departments a year are dropping out already.


Yep. They'll have to start charging $150 for every test and then make the list only good for one year.

Because...the Commonwealth.


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## patrol22

woodyd said:


> No stats here, but there has been a wave on towns leaving in the last five years. Wellesley started the trend in 2010, many followed suit. Off the top of my head, Burlington, Reading, Westwood, Acton, Maynard, likely Framingham in the near future.
> It's unfortunate, because Unions will lose the leverage that they previously had when the town wanted to leave CS. Burlington got full Quinn funding in return for leaving CS, most got something decent. Baker should return the support that he received from Police Unions by fulling funding Quinn, and reopening it to new hires.


North Attleboro, Seekonk and Franklin have all somewhat recently opted out too. Speaking from experience it makes hiring much easier and faster but certainly opens things up for nepotism. It's nice to have a bigger pool to choose from


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## felony

Also, Foxboro will be opting out soon, along with Milford, Medway, Millis and Medfield in the near future. I am friendly with one of the Chiefs and asked why they were to leave CS. His response "So we can hire who we want." Franklin sold their soul to the devil to get out of CS for Quinn for those already hired and not new hires. From the guys I know that work over there are already regretting it.


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## Joel98

Civil Service is an antiquated system, it's time has come and gone.

Time for Massachusetts to join the rest of the country, where you DON'T have to take a ridiculous test every two years just to be a cop.


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## LA Copper

Joel98 said:


> Civil Service is an antiquated system, it's time has come and gone.
> 
> Time for Massachusetts to join the rest of the country, where you DON'T have to take a retarded test every two years just to be a cop.


To get on a list for a _*chance* _to become a cop.


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## Joel98

LA Copper said:


> To get on a list for a _*chance* _to become a cop.


Good catch, you are correct my friend.


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## LA Copper

Joel98 said:


> Good catch, you are correct my friend.


You bet, it's the least I could do to help out a brother on the job.


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## patrol22

felony said:


> Also, Foxboro will be opting out soon, along with Milford, Medway, Millis and Medfield in the near future. I am friendly with one of the Chiefs and asked why they were to leave CS. His response "So we can hire who we want." Franklin sold their soul to the devil to get out of CS for Quinn for those already hired and not new hires. From the guys I know that work over there are already regretting it.


Foxboro is going to be a popular test when that happens. Those guys make out very well. Tons of detail opportunities as you would expect. The town itself is very nice and seems like it would be somewhat quiet


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## Kilvinsky

Mr Scribbles said:


> Mike you've been out of Boston for waaaayyy too long my friend,LOL
> Around here you don't get any of the coveted jobs or assignments unless you've got a relative/friend on the Command Staff, or a call comes from "The Hall". Seniority and merit are meaningless, this is not a square peg square hole Department. And as far as the smaller towns, I don't think anyone is surprised there's cronyism and nepotism going on.


It can happen at the college level too, but NO ONE gives a damn outside the department because, 'who gives a crap' what happens at a private college?


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## felony

patrol22 said:


> Foxboro is going to be a popular test when that happens. Those guys make out very well. Tons of detail opportunities as you would expect. The town itself is very nice and seems like it would be somewhat quiet


Foxboro isn't that busy, they are a department of about 20 full time and they have about 30 reserve officers, that basically only work during the home games at the stadium or other events. They will be the same as the Walpole test, except they have plenty of internal candidates. Foxboro PD, is secret squirrel when it comes to hiring, it will be interesting to see how they transition to non-cs in the near future.

Those bitching about Civil Service are on the outside looking in. If they updated the test, added a physical requirement besisdes the joke of a PAT, it will weed out more candidates. Think of all those lovely tests your going to have to take, spend probably $100 each and still hear back nothing, just like the Walpole test, Westood Test, Reading Test etc. This message board will explode with bitching.


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## felony

woodyd said:


> I would hope that FPD would promote their R/I Officers to full-time, and conduct a test to hire new R/I to backfill the vacancies. Hiring new FT Officers from the outside doesn't seem fair to the people already working there part-time.


I agree, however a lot of their internal candidates are either retired chiefs/officers, court officers, firemen etc. That got on, due to political patronage.


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## MiamiVice

woodyd said:


> I would hope that FPD would promote their R/I Officers to full-time, and conduct a test to hire new R/I to backfill the vacancies. Hiring new FT Officers from the outside doesn't seem fair to the people already working there part-time.


The Fpd's reserves aren't civil service Reserves. Specials would be a more correct terminology, so the hiring will be from outside. 

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## patrol22

MiamiVice said:


> The Fpd's reserves aren't civil service Reserves. Specials would be a more correct terminology, so the hiring will be from outside.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


This is true, I think they only have two true CS R/I guys left but I don't think either want to go FT. They have a ton of specials


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## j809

Pretty soon you will have to attend a full time academy coupled with a degree in order to get hired. 


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## Bkav97

Does anyone know whether or not the town of Stoughton is still on the CS system?


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## felony

Bkav97 said:


> Does anyone know whether or not the town of Stoughton is still on the CS system?


Don't think so....but who knows, it seems its that time of year again, where every department is in negotiations.


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