# Best College For CJ



## Guest

Hi, I am a Senior in high school and am a college acceptee and I am trying to get a professional's opinion on which one of my top schools has the best reputation in the law enforcement world. Norwich University in VT, UMass Lowell, or University of New Haven in CT. I am having a hard time deciding which my two favorite are Umass and Univ. New haven but im not sure which would set me up best for post-graduation.

Thank you very much.

Kevin C.


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## Nighttrain

How did Northeastern not end up on your list? At the end of the day an undergrad degree and fifty cents will buy you a newspaper. I'd go for the one that doesn't require you to sign away your first born in order to afford it. In Mass, in my opinion, the particular school you graduated from really isn't that important. Simply having the CJ degree is what counts.

Good luck.


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## mpr4601

Especially if it's Quinn Bill accepted $$$


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## Big.G

If you plan on pursuing a job in MA, go with UMass-Lowell. It's already Quinn Bill accepted and from what I hear it has a really good CJ Program. As what Nighttrain said, here in MA it doesn't really matter which college you get your degree from. The cheapest, Quinn Bill accepted college is going to give you the same pay increases as the most expensive one.


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## Guest

nighttrain- Northeastwern didnt end up on the list because I just recently got a nice rejection leter from them haha. but hey what can you do, I figure I can do my graduate studies there...thank you for the reply


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## Tuna

I did Middlesex CC for the first 2 years and finished up at Western New England. Did it all nights though. There were a few guys in my academy class that did UMass Lowell and they were sharp. U-Lowell is also a state school which gives a break to Veterans


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## Big.G

mtc said:


> Kid - plan on a back up career to feed you while you test and wait.... It's better than flipping burgers with your $80K parchment.


Sound advice right there.


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## Guest

In Massachusetts, any school on this list is as good as the next;

http://www.osfa.mass.edu/quinnbill/approved_schools.htm

If you mean national standings, then the University of Cincinnati, University of Maryland-College Park, Michigan State, & Florida State are all top-ranked CJ/Criminology programs.


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## BartA1

if you dont want to be saddled with a plethora of student loans. I would reccomend getting an associates from a 2 year community college. Then I would reccomend finding a school to transfer and finish the Bachelors degree, but being your a senior in high school and you probably want to get out of the house and try college life. I would reccomend UMass Lowell. Its a residential school and if you get lucky enough to get a job in Mass you will be all set with collecting the quinn bill. I went to school while working full time did Massasoit for the Associates and Curry College for the Bachelors. Going back for the Masters in September if everything goes well.

Good Luck


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## Guest

BartA1 said:


> if you dont want to be saddled with a plethora of student loans. I would reccomend getting an associates from a 2 year community college.


+1

I got my Associate's degree from a two-year college for dirt cheap, then transferred all my credits to my Bachelor's program. Also be sure to take full advantage of CLEP and DANTES exams; I know there's a limit on those for the Quinn Bill, but take advantage of what you can. Getting 3-6 credits for $75 in testing fees and an hour of time can't be beat.



BartA1 said:


> Then I would reccomend finding a school to transfer and finish the Bachelors degree, but being your a senior in high school and you probably want to get out of the house and try college life. I would reccomend UMass Lowell. Its a residential school and if you get lucky enough to get a job in Mass you will be all set with collecting the quinn bill.


I did my Master's at UMass-Lowell, but I'm not sure I would recommend it for someone out of high school. During my two visits to the campus (once to copy my original DD-214, the other to pickup my diploma) I was less than impressed; it looks like someone dropped a university into a rundown ghetto area, and I wouldn't want my kids living there.

Bridgewater State College offers the same benefits (student life, Quinn Bill approved) without the dangers of flying bullets and drive-by shootings.


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## CarverD1

Currently finishing my last semester at BCC in Fall River where I will receive a Associates. I know alot of police officers that have gone there, its not a bad school if its within your area. Classes are good and the instructors are very helpful. Definitely make sure you get into a Quinn Bill approved school. I plan on attending Curry in the Fall to continue on to my Bachelors. 

Good Luck with your future plans.


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## CJmajor27

Just graduated from westfield state last year with my CJ degree. I'll recommend it if you don't mind going to a small inexpensive 4 yr school. Beautiful and quiet campus with some really good professors. It's also quinn bill certified.


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## ninety_four_c

Best bang for your buck in MA is Westfield State


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## Loyal

regarding the Quinn Bill - "Curry, if you're in a hurry" - accelerated classes..


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## Guest

Does Anyone have an opinion on University of New Haven? That is most liely going to be where I will end up next year...unless I somehow get talked out


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## PearlOnyx

CJ,

Given your list, Norwich is the best school for you to choose. It's all personal opinion, but I happen to be a fan of the school. I'm considering putting off starting grad school this summer to apply for their online masters program.


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## Chief Wiggins

You also might want to consider which undergrad programs also offer grad programs, it might be worthwhile to go for the extra year and get the extra 5% incentive (20% to 25% Mass only) right off. It will pay you back over your career.

From your list I would choose Norwich, law enforcement agencies love the idea of a four year para-miltary style education. The graduates are sqaured away and could step in and graduate from any academy. They have a great education and their alumni are extremly diverse, i.e. military, federal, state and local. Finally, it does not hurt that if you want to go military upon graduation and get your federal time (retirement)started.

I graduated from Bridgewater in the mid 90's and from what I hear it is profoundly better. They currently offer a grad program, and from what I read they are upgrading the campus, i.e. new gym, doors, chow halls.

If you do choose New Haven see if CSP/New Haven PD/federal agency has any cadet/internship programs. It is a good idea to get your foot in the door as early as possible.

Good luck have fun, for the first time the women are away from daddy and want to have fun . The biggest part of college is eventually we all do something stupid, just don't get caught!!!


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## AdamJ1984

Original poster, what are your career goals when you graduate? Are you planning on a career as a police officer in this state. As you know, it is very difficult to obtain a position here and sometimes takes years and multiple tests to obtain an interview. Have you thought about other studies that you could fall back on incase your original plans did not work out? I don't want to be a killjoy, but I am almost finished with a degree in finance that incase my original career choice does no pan out, I know I can get a good paying job in another area. Just my 2 cents though, just don't throw all your eggs into one basket.


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## LikeIt223

Check out Worcester State as well. Between their low tuition/fees and my GI BILL I make about a grand every semester going here!!! Without vetran's benefits it will cost 3-4k a semester as a commuter and 6-7k as a resident. Pretty sure it is one of the cheapest in the state and the ever expanding CJ program has some surprisingly good prof's with decent L.E. backgrounds.

Other than that- stick with the advice above. A B.S. is a B.S. is a B.S.-- they will all help you in the long run.



Loyal said:


> regarding the Quinn Bill - "Curry, if you're in a hurry" - accelerated classes..


I heard Curry was no longer accepting applications and their CJ program was shutting down? Any truth to this or is it all BS<--- That's bull sh*t not Bachelor of Science!!


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## CarverD1

LikeIt223 said:


> Check out Worcester State as well. Between their low tuition/fees and my GI BILL I make about a grand every semester going here!!! Without vetran's benefits it will cost 3-4k a semester as a commuter and 6-7k as a resident. Pretty sure it is one of the cheapest in the state and the ever expanding CJ program has some surprisingly good prof's with decent L.E. backgrounds.
> 
> Other than that- stick with the advice above. A B.S. is a B.S. is a B.S.-- they will all help you in the long run.
> 
> I heard Curry was no longer accepting applications and their CJ program was shutting down? Any truth to this or is it all BS<--- That's bull sh*t not Bachelor of Science!!


I haven't heard anything about that. As far as I know they are still offering CJ classes. I couldn't see why they would shut down the CJ program, they seem to take on alot of CJ students from the Plymouth area.


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## Guest

LikeIt223 said:


> I heard Curry was no longer accepting applications and their CJ program was shutting down? Any truth to this or is it all BS<--- That's bull sh*t not Bachelor of Science!!


I get their alumni magazine and still keep tabs over there, and I've heard nothing about that.

It would be extremely surprising, considering how much Curry spent in order to meet the new Quinn Bill standards, and how much money they make from continuing ed CJ students. I'd be willing to bet those fancy new dorms they've built in the last few years were funded by the CJ program.


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## OPD05

My $.02 depends on what you want to do with your degree. Assuming since you are on MASSCOPS that you want to be a cop, go for Quinn bill. I was looking for a better reputation school because I did not want to narrow my options after school. Just because you have a CJ degree doesnt mean you get a badge with diploma. I went to BC and am in law school now in hopes of getting into the DA's side of LE. Not what I thought I would be doing at 18. Good luck with your choice.


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## LikeIt223

OPD05 said:


> My $.02 depends on what you want to do with your degree. Assuming since you are on MASSCOPS that you want to be a cop, go for Quinn bill. I was looking for a better reputation school because I did not want to narrow my options after school. Just because you have a CJ degree doesnt mean you get a badge with diploma. I went to BC and am in law school now in hopes of getting into the DA's side of LE. Not what I thought I would be doing at 18. Good luck with your choice.


1) That is an ironic assumtion to make when you consider that you are a member of this network and you do not want to be a cop! 2) we are on *MASS*cops- I do not think anyone believes a diploma will bring a badge. 3) I do not understand how any college degree would narrow someone's options 4) I know of 10+ individuals with degrees in C.J. who were accepted into law schools with good reputations. 5)BC is a great school- congrats on being accepted. How are the student loan bills?

Anyways, I am done ranting- hope I do not drive this forum off direction.


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## PearlOnyx

Like It,

I'm a cop, but 20 years down the road, I want to teach college. I think his point was that depending on what you're long term goals are, you may benefit from going to a bigger name school or a school with a better reputation, if you have goals beyond just getting you Quinn Bill money. I'm not knocking some of the smaller schools and community colleges, but we must be real. There are still many schools out there, which in the academic world, are looked upon as less than reputable as others. I've never attended Curry, so I can't speak on it from personal experience, but I can tell you that alot of people look at Curry as a diploma mill for cops. Personally, if I had some sort of lofty goals outside of law enforcement, I'd avoid that school due to reputation. If my goal was Quinn and only Quinn, I'd consider it along with the rest.


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## topcop14

LikeIt223;273980
I heard Curry was no longer accepting applications and their CJ program was shutting down? Any truth to this or is it all BS<--- That's bull sh*t not Bachelor of Science!![/quote said:


> Not true, I am finishing my last two classes at Curry right now. They are closeing the Worcester Campus but thats it, The program is alive and well in Milton. Worcester Will be closed this summer.


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## Guest

PearlOnyx said:


> I'm a cop, but 20 years down the road, I want to teach college. I think his point was that depending on what you're long term goals are, you may benefit from going to a bigger name school or a school with a better reputation, if you have goals beyond just getting you Quinn Bill money. I'm not knocking some of the smaller schools and community colleges, but we must be real. There are still many schools out there, which in the academic world, are looked upon as less than reputable as others. I've never attended Curry, so I can't speak on it from personal experience, but I can tell you that alot of people look at Curry as a diploma mill for cops. Personally, if I had some sort of lofty goals outside of law enforcement, I'd avoid that school due to reputation. If my goal was Quinn and only Quinn, I'd consider it along with the rest.


In order to teach CJ at the college level, you need the minimum of a Master's degree from a regionally accredited (RA) college or university, and the admission ticket to a RA graduate program is an undergradute degree from another RA school. Whether it's from Harvard, Curry, or Podunk State College doesn't matter one bit.

And for a teaching job, where you got your undergrad degree is pretty much irrelevant, it's the graduate degree that counts. That's why I chose UMass-Lowell; because it's both Quinn approved and also has one of the highest rated CJ Master's programs in the country.

How do I know this? Because I already have a teaching job.


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## LikeIt223

topcop14 said:


> Not true, I am finishing my last two classes at Curry right now. They are closeing the Worcester Campus but thats it, The program is alive and well in Milton. Worcester Will be closed this summer.


I am from the worcester area, so that explains why I have heard that and nobody else has!! It's tough living in this other world called west of 495!!


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## Guest

LikeIt223 said:


> I am from the worcester area, so that explains why I have heard that and nobody else has!! It's tough living in this other world called west of 495!!


In the words of Winston Wolfe; "Move out of the sticks, gentlemen".


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## trel

Go to UMass Lowell. I got both a BS and MA in CJ from there. I also lived there for three years...and unlike some have posted I never got shot at and what not. Nice campus and they have a 5 year program which allows you to use credits for both degrees. The masters program is well known accross the country. I had ATF, FBI, Secret Service Agents as well as state and local law enforcement from all over the US in my online classes.


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## Mitpo62

You can always buy your degreea at Anna Maria!


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## Redleg13D

LikeIt223 said:


> Check out Worcester State as well. Between their low tuition/fees and my GI BILL I make about a grand every semester going here!!! Without vetran's benefits it will cost 3-4k a semester as a commuter and 6-7k as a resident. Pretty sure it is one of the cheapest in the state and the ever expanding CJ program has some surprisingly good prof's with decent L.E. backgrounds.


On a side note Worcester has many of the same professors as Westfield, it is basically a joint program.


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## fish4all

Go to a community college where it's cheaper and you'll find out if this is the field you want to invest in. If yes, then transfer into private affordable school to get the degree. State schools are good but you are forced to take alot of electives that have nothinig to do with cj. Private schools offer more classes in the field of cj but at what cost. Best of luck. Most people who go to college end up in a career field unrelated to there college degree.


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## Guest

fish4all said:


> State schools are good but you are forced to take alot of electives that have nothinig to do with cj. Private schools offer more classes in the field of cj but at what cost.


Every accredited institution of higher learning has undergraduate general education requirements, it makes no difference whatsoever if the school is public or private.


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## kttref

UNH has a great CJ program as well as a grad program. However, it would be cheaper for you to stay in MA...ultimately it's up to what you want to do...


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## PearlOnyx

Delta,

While I agree that when it comes to meeting requirements to teach, a RA degree is an RA degree, however my point is that when you stand up 2 candidates for 1 job next to eachother, the quality of the institution that person attended is bound to be a factor. When competing for a position a MS from Northeastern is bound to look better than a MS from Curry. To each their own...


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## kttref

Hey my husband is a Curry undergrad alum...


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## UncleMatt

So am I! In fact Curry's CJ program is going strong. I'm a few classes from getting my masters in CJ from the Worcester campus. Curry's official position is that they are moving out of Worcester because it came time to renew their lease at their current building and the owner wanted a 5 year agreement. Curry has been in Worcester for 11 years and decided with all of the other schools now offering CJ, it may be time to move on. 

For me, it didn't matter where I got my degree for Quinn purposes. I see it as a benefit that will pay and pay. Well unless our A-HOLE of a governor, whom I didn't vote for either, tries to take that from us as well. What a douchebag!


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## Guest

PearlOnyx said:


> Delta,
> 
> While I agree that when it comes to meeting requirements to teach, a RA degree is an RA degree, however my point is that when you stand up 2 candidates for 1 job next to eachother, the quality of the institution that person attended is bound to be a factor. When competing for a position a MS from Northeastern is bound to look better than a MS from Curry. To each their own...


I believe you missed my point; what I said was when applying for a teaching position, the source of your *undergraduate *degree is of little importance.

Where you received your graduate degree is what's going to be looked at with a critical eye.


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## kttref

So...what do you think of Norwich University for grad??? (Please tell me I made the right choice!) haha.


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## Guest

kttref said:


> So...what do you think of Norwich University for grad??? (Please tell me I made the right choice!) haha.


Norwich is a great school; very expensive compared to other programs out there, but definitely a good choice.


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## kttref

(it's free if the PD pays for it!)


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## Guest

USMCMP5811 said:


> Can't beat that with a leather sap can ya?


Sure you can....with a 25% raise when you're finished.


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## kttref

Yeah..since they pay for it we don't get anything extra when we're done...


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## Guest

kttref said:


> Yeah..since they pay for it we don't get anything extra when we're done...


Have your PD pay for the degree, then move and become a Masshole to reap the benefits.


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## Barbrady

Delta784 said:


> If you mean national standings,


John Jay College...I think.


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## Guest

Barbrady said:


> John Jay College...I think.


University of Maryland-College Park is #1;

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/crm/search


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## kttref

Delta784 said:


> Have your PD pay for the degree, then move and become a Masshole to reap the benefits.


I'd rather be a Connecticu...nevermind.


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## Guest

kttref said:


> I'd rather be a Connecticu...nevermind.


Connecticut is a lot like Massachusetts, just a slightly different accent and more Yankee fans.


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## usaf1199a

If you want a police officer job in MA - start on it from day 1. I would not wait to finish college. I would apply to everything and anything with the hopes you would either get sponsored for the full-time academy or you will get hired by a department full-time who will put you thru the academy. My advice to you is that here in MA you often times get only one chance to get on - you have the rest of your life to finish college with no age restrictions. Best of luck. In short - college means nothing in MA, the only thing that matters in veteran's preference.


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## Andy0921

Delta784 said:


> Connecticut is a lot like Massachusetts, just a slightly different accent and more Yankee fans.


We have less liberal douche bags.


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## Guest

andy0921 said:


> We have less liberal douche bags.


Just in elected office.


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## AdamJ1984

usaf1199a said:


> If you want a police officer job in MA - start on it from day 1. I would not wait to finish college. I would apply to everything and anything with the hopes you would either get sponsored for the full-time academy or you will get hired by a department full-time who will put you thru the academy. My advice to you is that here in MA you often times get only one chance to get on - you have the rest of your life to finish college with no age restrictions. Best of luck. In short - college means nothing in MA, the only thing that matters in veteran's preference.


I totally agree, in this state being a Veteran is better than having a diploma. In other states there is a difference though as I know some departments in TX for example want a candidate to have a Bachelor's Degree and there are few exceptions. So, if you plan on waiting here for a long time to become an officer, maybe look into other routes if you want a stable job after graduating.


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## Guest

I was wondering if anyone knew anything about Fitchburg State. I am about to get out of NHTI in Concord NH and I live pretty close to Fitchburg and it'd be cheaper than UMass, but I'm also looking at NEC, just your two cents ( i plan on working in NH so no quinn) Thanks


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## tacpup82

The best Cj school out there is John Jay. Northeastern is a Criminology school..they specialize in all that psych stuff, so they arent bad either. Just really expensive.
Norwich would give you an opportunity to participate in the corps of cadets...a really good deal because it gives you the chance to participate in ROTC and in a paramilitary environment. I know alot of people who came out of there, and they are all very successful. Mass Maritime is another school that has the opportunity to major in Homeland security/ emergency management while living in the paramilitary cadet environment....law enforcement loves former military, and it was the sole thing that got me to beat out a bunch of college students for a job.
I do recomment that you find a major other than Criminal Justice. Computers, Education, and Finance are the best ones as this is what the federal agencies look at as well as promotion boards.
Good luck with your endevours.


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## Guest

tacpup82 said:


> The best Cj school out there is John Jay.


Wrong.



tacpup82 said:


> Northeastern is a Criminology school


Wrong again.


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## tacpup82

Wrong? Ok, then who in your opinion is the top?

Ive talked to enough professors to know John Jay is the top Cj school because thats all they teach there. 

Criminology is what Northeastern specializes in...


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## Guest

tacpup82 said:


> Wrong? Ok, then who in your opinion is the top?


My opinion doesn't matter; it's the opinions of the experts in the CJ field you should concern yourself with. What they think is that the University of Maryland-College Park is the top ranked CJ school in the country. CUNY-John Jay is ranked #11.



tacpup82 said:


> Ive talked to enough professors to know John Jay is the top Cj school because thats all they teach there.


Ummm....no;

http://www.jjay.cuny.edu/academics/622.php



tacpup82 said:


> Criminology is what Northeastern specializes in...


Ummm.....no, again. Northeastern has a College of _Criminal Justice_, not Criminology;

http://www.cj.neu.edu/


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## Anonymous

First of all, the US News and World Report rankings are consistently controversial and notorious for the strange way in which they rank. If we are to use them, however, the rankings you've shown are for criminology programs. In the U of Maryland case, the Criminology and Criminal Justice program are the same department, but at other places they are separate. Is there a "Criminal Justice" ranking list, or is criminology as close as it gets?


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## Guest

galehopeful said:


> First of all, the US News and World Report rankings are consistently controversial and notorious for the strange way in which they rank. If we are to use them, however, the rankings you've shown are for criminology programs. In the U of Maryland case, the Criminology and Criminal Justice program are the same department, but at other places they are separate. Is there a "Criminal Justice" ranking list, or is criminology as close as it gets?


Both Criminology and Criminal Justice programs are ranked under Criminology....many schools on the list (SUNY-Albany, Michigan State, Cincinnati, etc.) offer strictly CJ programs, and there is little practical difference between the two.

The only real controversy with the USN&WR rankings generally comes from schools and alumni of schools who aren't happy with their own rankings. In any event, even the ACJS rankings have Maryland, SUNY-Albany, and Cincinnati in the top 5. CUNY-John Jay doesn't break the top 10 on either list.


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## Inspector71

Listen,

1. Delta is right! Start at one of the CC's and transfer to Bridgewater (Westfield)or U/Masses for the cheapest and smartest resident rates!
Delta is teaching in the field and has a finger on the pulse. quit arguing and listen. Fact is that the state CC's transfer 100% into the State college and U/Mass programs...Duh! it's a no-brainer!

Anna Maria produced a Sgt at Massasoit who isn't worth spit, stay away!


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## PearlOnyx

Delta,

Yeah, I did miss your point. Sorry about that. I know this post is a day late and a dollar short, but I lost this thread somehow.


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## tacpup82

Bottom line, John Jay is one of the top schools. They specialize in this stuff, and are internationally recognized for their research and academic programs. I have alot of family that has attended John JAy... outstanding school.
WHen I attended UMD, no one even paid attendtion to the Criminology program. They are primaril a business school...besides. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop...you learn what you need to in the academy. If you want to go somewhere in the department nowadays, they want the business degree. CJ gets you in the door, Business gets you promoted..and others get you a specialty assignment. Welcome to the new age of Law enforcement. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen.


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## Guest

tacpup82 said:


> Bottom line, John Jay is one of the top schools. They specialize in this stuff, and are internationally recognized for their research and academic programs. I have alot of family that has attended John JAy... outstanding school.
> WHen I attended UMD, no one even paid attendtion to the Criminology program. They are primaril a business school...besides. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop...you learn what you need to in the academy. If you want to go somewhere in the department nowadays, they want the business degree. CJ gets you in the door, Business gets you promoted..and others get you a specialty assignment. Welcome to the new age of Law enforcement. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen.


That post is so comically inaccurate, I barely know where to begin.

You're not related to Grasshopper by any chance?


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## PaulKersey

tacpup82 said:


> If you want to go somewhere in the department nowadays, they want the business degree..


What department is that?


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## midwatch

tacpup82 said:


> You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop...you learn what you need to in the academy.


This I agree with.



tacpup82 said:


> If you want to go somewhere in the department nowadays, they want the business degree. CJ gets you in the door, Business gets you promoted..and others get you a specialty assignment. Welcome to the new age of Law enforcement. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen.


This, on the other hand, is possibly the dumbest thing I've read today. I will say that business skills (finance, computer skills) may be helpful and sought after for promotions/administrative slots, but if you want to be a cop, get your CJ degree. And go to UMass Lowell with their 5 year Master's program...screw John Jay and Maryland. Good schools, but why bother when UML's program is pretty highly regarded, cost efficient, and Quinn Bill certified.


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## tacpup82

midwatch said:


> This I agree with.
> 
> This, on the other hand, is possibly the dumbest thing I've read today. I will say that business skills (finance, computer skills) may be helpful and sought after for promotions/administrative slots, but if you want to be a cop, get your CJ degree. And go to UMass Lowell with their 5 year Master's program...screw John Jay and Maryland. Good schools, but why bother when UML's program is pretty highly regarded, cost efficient, and Quinn Bill certified.


Absolutely wrong. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen. I know in Mass you people do things all messed up from the rest of the nation, but when you go to a non communist state they dont want CJ. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop. You learn what you need to in the academy. I remember when I was a student my department head (from the CJ depratment) even said that CJ was not a needed degree. You people are talking about MAsters programs like every cop has one. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD. A state school is a state school. More and more PDs want military first then college. And if they are plucking kids straight out of college then its because they lacked quality canidates from the beginning. Chiefs want maturity and life experience. A degree gets your foot in the door. But then again, this is the Communist's confederate republic of the socialist state of Mass that we are talking about.



PaulKersey said:


> What department is that?


Most in NH, MAine, VT, MD, VA, NC, etc... need I go on?



PaulKersey said:


> What department is that?





Delta784 said:


> That post is so comically inaccurate, I barely know where to begin.
> 
> You're not related to Grasshopper by any chance?


Youre innacurate. Im U Maryland Alumni... Business is our thing. The CJ department is a quiet department that most people dont deal with. 
CJ degrees are a joke. Everything I did when I went for my associates was covered in the academy, then I got smart and went for business. 
Because you took the easy road and went with CJ and that worked for you back in the stone age, then congratulations. Everyone I have talked to says they love Business majors... and at most minor in the CJ field. My professors in my Masters program currently say the same thing, and its the same way for these Homeland Security degrees that are coming out. They are simply extended CJ degrees with a few courses on terrorism that give basic information you can get online on a decent website. I know what I have done, and it has worked for me.


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## PaulKersey

*


tacpup82 said:



Absolutely wrong. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD.

Click to expand...

*


tacpup82 said:


> *Most in NH, MAine, VT, MD, VA, NC, etc... need I go on?.quote]*
> 
> Yes, there's something wrong with making an extra $250 a week for having this degree.
> 
> The entrance exam gets you on the job. The promotional test gets you promoted. The CJ degree gets you a raise. That's how it works in Mass, but don't listen to the guys that actually do the job.


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## tacpup82

PaulKersey said:


> *
> 
> 
> tacpup82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely wrong. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *
> 
> 
> tacpup82 said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Most in NH, MAine, VT, MD, VA, NC, etc... need I go on?.quote]*
> 
> Yes, there's something wrong with making an extra $250 a week for having this degree.
> 
> The entrance exam gets you on the job. The promotional test gets you promoted. The CJ degree gets you a raise. That's how it works in Mass, but don't listen to the guys that actually do the job.
> 
> 
> 
> Im well versed on how you do it in Mass thank you, but in a real state where they dont have to bribe their officers to get educated, it doesnt matter what your degree is in. So yea, in the Communist Commonwealth of Mass, maybe you do need a CJ degree. In NH for example, you dont just take a test, its based upon your merit, education, and resume. Having a Masters degree actually means something in the rest of the country, and not only promotion. What ever happened to best man for the job? Oh, thats right, Mass works on the civil circus program, so its every minority and resident to the top. Still funny how Mass residents still try to run up into NH for jobs though.
Click to expand...


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## Guest

galehopeful said:


> First of all, the US News and World Report rankings are consistently controversial and notorious for the strange way in which they rank. If we are to use them, however, the rankings you've shown are for criminology programs. In the U of Maryland case, the Criminology and Criminal Justice program are the same department, but at other places they are separate. Is there a "Criminal Justice" ranking list, or is criminology as close as it gets?


You're correct! In many (if not most or all) freshman research methods or statistics classes, the validity of the index used (and the survey data it's predicated upon) is torn to shreds. It's commonly used as a cautionary tale of when pop culture masquerades for validity. I'm a little rusty on my validates (face, content, discriminant, predictive, concurrent, convergent...) but during several classes (both undergrad as well as graduate) professors would tear to shreds the validity of measurement within the indexes of the U.S. News and World Report Rankings.



Delta784 said:


> Both Criminology and Criminal Justice programs are ranked under Criminology....many schools on the list (SUNY-Albany, Michigan State, Cincinnati, etc.) offer strictly CJ programs, and there is little practical difference between the two.
> 
> The only real controversy with the USN&WR rankings generally comes from schools and alumni of schools who aren't happy with their own rankings. In any event, even the ACJS rankings have Maryland, SUNY-Albany, and Cincinnati in the top 5. CUNY-John Jay doesn't break the top 10 on either list.


"The only real controversy with the USN&WR rankings generally comes from schools and alumni of schools who aren't happy with their own rankings."

That would actually be fairly inaccurate since if I were to look at the rankings of my schools, then I would really have nothing to complain about.



tacpup82 said:


> PaulKersey said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im well versed on how you do it in Mass thank you, but in a real state where they dont have to bribe their officers to get educated, it doesnt matter what your degree is in. So yea, in the Communist Commonwealth of Mass, maybe you do need a CJ degree. In NH for example, you dont just take a test, its based upon your merit, education, and resume. Having a Masters degree actually means something in the rest of the country, and not only promotion. What ever happened to best man for the job? Oh, thats right, Mass works on the civil circus program, so its every minority and resident to the top. Still funny how Mass residents still try to run up into NH for jobs though.
> 
> 
> 
> "so its every minority and resident to the top"
> 
> Easy there. That's not exactly factual either. You had my support until that one.
Click to expand...


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## tacpup82

Sorry, but thats what Ive seen in the Mass system. When you have people who have been told that if they were a minority they would have had a job, then thats wrong. Whats wrong with working your ass off, building a resume to be marketable and working that way. I tested once in MA, and am glad I got away from it...I was a canidate that was told that I wasnt a minority so it didnt look good, alot of good people are sent packing that way and it is wrong. The MA state civil service test is a joke.


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## Guest

tacpup82 said:


> Sorry, but thats what Ive seen in the Mass system. When you have people who have been told that if they were a minority they would have had a job, then thats wrong. Whats wrong with working your ass off, building a resume to be marketable and working that way. I tested once in MA, and am glad I got away from it...I was a canidate that was told that I wasnt a minority so it didnt look good, alot of good people are sent packing that way and it is wrong. The MA state civil service test is a joke.


I'm sorry it didn't work out as well for you in Massachusetts. It would seem you're doing much better elsewhere now I hope? If you look at the demographic makeup of departments, minority preference has very little if anything to do with the hiring process. Some major departments had even taken themselves off the list in compliance with the federal decree after precedent was sent, thereby having no minority preference at all.


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## Nighttrain

You're right tacpup, we've all been bribed into getting an education. We've also been bribed into keeping all of our teeth in our mouths. I'm glad to see law enforcement in NH hasen't been bullied into that one! As for being on patrol with a master's degree why can't someone work the street but have desire to learn, to better themselves? Not everyone on the job wants to make rank.

Grasshopper gets banned for using big words yet this tool is basically calling us all corrupt and that our educations aren't real. I'm far more offended by my character being questioned than by them big ole' college words. This kid is a stooge.


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## Guest

tacpup82 said:


> Absolutely wrong. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen. I know in Mass you people do things all messed up from the rest of the nation, but when you go to a non communist state they dont want CJ. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop. You learn what you need to in the academy. I remember when I was a student my department head (from the CJ depratment) even said that CJ was not a needed degree. You people are talking about MAsters programs like every cop has one. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD. A state school is a state school. More and more PDs want military first then college. And if they are plucking kids straight out of college then its because they lacked quality canidates from the beginning. Chiefs want maturity and life experience. A degree gets your foot in the door. But then again, this is the Communist's confederate republic of the socialist state of Mass that we are talking about.


I didn't think it was possible to see someone on this board more smug, sanctimonious, and arrogant with no reason to be than Grasshopper, but I think you might have topped her.

Here's a hint.....when you come onto a board that is designed for MASSACHUSETTS POLICE officers (not New Hampshire security guards), at least know what the hell you're talking about.



tacpup82 said:


> Youre innacurate. Im U Maryland Alumni... Business is our thing. The CJ department is a quiet department that most people dont deal with.


No, I am not inaccurate. I have a part-time gig that requires me to be on top of these things, and you couldn't possibly be more wrong. Besides the USN&WR rankings, the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences and the American Society of Criminology (I'm a member of both) rank Maryland in the top 5 of CJ/Criminology schools in the country.



tacpup82 said:


> CJ degrees are a joke.


Not as much of a joke as someone who is allegedly a Maryland alumni working as a security guard.



tacpup82 said:


> Everything I did when I went for my associates was covered in the academy, then I got smart and went for business.
> Because you took the easy road and went with CJ and that worked for you back in the stone age, then congratulations. Everyone I have talked to says they love Business majors... and at most minor in the CJ field. My professors in my Masters program currently say the same thing, and its the same way for these Homeland Security degrees that are coming out. They are simply extended CJ degrees with a few courses on terrorism that give basic information you can get online on a decent website. I know what I have done, and it has worked for me.


It's worked for you because........you're a security guard?


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## redsox03

Grasshopper said:


> minority preference has very little if anything to do with the hiring process.


Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.


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## midwatch

tacpup82 said:


> Absolutely wrong. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen. I know in Mass you people do things all messed up from the rest of the nation, but when you go to a non communist state they dont want CJ. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop. You learn what you need to in the academy. I remember when I was a student my department head (from the CJ depratment) even said that CJ was not a needed degree. You people are talking about MAsters programs like every cop has one. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD. A state school is a state school. More and more PDs want military first then college. And if they are plucking kids straight out of college then its because they lacked quality canidates from the beginning. Chiefs want maturity and life experience. A degree gets your foot in the door. But then again, this is the Communist's confederate republic of the socialist state of Mass that we are talking about.


I'm sorry. I figured since we were on Masscops, we would talk about Massachusetts based benefits. Silly me, I didn't realize we were actually dealing every police department in every state in the country. Therefore, given your anit-Massachusetts bias, I suppose your points may have some merit. However, in Massachusetts police officers should get their CJ degrees. A business, accounting, teaching, or whatever degree might be nice on the resume, but they don't put extra cash in my paycheck each week. Also, there is nothing wrong with a patrolman/woman working the streets with a Masters degree. Some officers have no desire to supervise others or get promoted into a desk jockey slot. Some guys actually like getting their hands dirty every night. So why wouldn't that same guy want to get a raise to do so?

Whether you agree or disagree with officers being "bribed" to become educated, it is what it is, so why wouldn't you set yourself up so that your family will benefit from it?


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## chief801

tacpup82 said:


> Bottom line, John Jay is one of the top schools. They specialize in this stuff, and are internationally recognized for their research and academic programs. I have alot of family that has attended John JAy... outstanding school.
> WHen I attended UMD, no one even paid attendtion to the Criminology program. They are primaril a business school...besides. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop...you learn what you need to in the academy. If you want to go somewhere in the department nowadays, they want the business degree. CJ gets you in the door, Business gets you promoted..and others get you a specialty assignment. Welcome to the new age of Law enforcement. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen.


All of my professors, colleagues, and fellow faculty members advised my to steer clear of John Jay for doctoral work. It doesn't carry the respect that you think it does. The academic rigor of their program is questioned by many in academia. 
As far as not needing a CJ major, well, check the chief's job listings. An overwhelming majority require a bachelors in CJ (or related field), Masters preferred. 
I will agree with you in part. I recommend a bachelors in CJ and an advanced degree in another discipline. The only downside is that you don't get paid for the masters unless it is CJ. 
You are entitled to your slanted rantings, but to say that someone who get's a masters degree and doesn't get promoted is just way off. I will join you in your criticism of civil service, which I have not been shy about elswhere on this board, but your one-dimensional and unjustifiable elitist view of the police officers who hold a master's degree and do not seek promotion is just plain garbage!


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## kttref

A co-worker of mine just got into John Jay for his PhD....not my cup of tea, but clearly it is his.


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## Guest

chief801 said:


> All of my professors, colleagues, and fellow faculty members advised my to steer clear of John Jay for doctoral work. It doesn't carry the respect that you think it does. The academic rigor of their program is questioned by many in academia.
> As far as not needing a CJ major, well, check the chief's job listings. An overwhelming majority require a bachelors in CJ (or related field), Masters preferred.
> I will agree with you in part. I recommend a bachelors in CJ and an advanced degree in another discipline. The only downside is that you don't get paid for the masters unless it is CJ.
> You are entitled to your slanted rantings, but to say that someone who get's a masters degree and doesn't get promoted is just way off. I will join you in your criticism of civil service, which I have not been shy about elswhere on this board, but your one-dimensional and unjustifiable elitist view of the police officers who hold a master's degree and do not seek promotion is just plain garbage!


You and the experts are wrong chief....clearly, a security guard at a nuclear power plant knows the ins and outs of academia better than those of us actually involved in it.


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## 94c

redsox03 said:


> Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.


You're better off buying a $500 clunker, flooring the thing, and smashing into one of the old mills in most towns...



chief801 said:


> All of my professors, colleagues, and fellow faculty members advised my to steer clear of John Jay for doctoral work. It doesn't carry the respect that you think it does. The academic rigor of their program is questioned by many in academia.
> As far as not needing a CJ major, well, check the chief's job listings. An overwhelming majority require a bachelors in CJ (or related field), Masters preferred.
> I will agree with you in part. I recommend a bachelors in CJ and an advanced degree in another discipline. The only downside is that you don't get paid for the masters unless it is CJ.
> You are entitled to your slanted rantings, but to say that someone who get's a masters degree and doesn't get promoted is just way off. I will join you in your criticism of civil service, which I have not been shy about elswhere on this board, but your one-dimensional and unjustifiable elitist view of the police officers who hold a master's degree and do not seek promotion is just plain garbage!


Not that I would ever think of becoming a chief but, I'll take politics over any degree, from any place, you can up with.

Where a degree comes from has absolutely nothing to do with becoming a chief.


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## O-302

tacpup82 said:


> Absolutely wrong. CJ degrees are a dime a dozen. I know in Mass you people do things all messed up from the rest of the nation, but when you go to a non communist state they dont want CJ. You dont need a CJ degree to be a cop. You learn what you need to in the academy. I remember when I was a student my department head (from the CJ depratment) even said that CJ was not a needed degree. You people are talking about MAsters programs like every cop has one. If you are still patrolling the streets and have a masters degree there is something wrong. You better be in the higher echelon of your PD. A state school is a state school. More and more PDs want military first then college. And if they are plucking kids straight out of college then its because they lacked quality canidates from the beginning. Chiefs want maturity and life experience. A degree gets your foot in the door. But then again, this is the Communist's confederate republic of the socialist state of Mass that we are talking about.
> 
> Most in NH, MAine, VT, MD, VA, NC, etc... need I go on?
> 
> Youre innacurate. Im U Maryland Alumni... Business is our thing. The CJ department is a quiet department that most people dont deal with.
> CJ degrees are a joke. Everything I did when I went for my associates was covered in the academy, then I got smart and went for business.
> Because you took the easy road and went with CJ and that worked for you back in the stone age, then congratulations. Everyone I have talked to says they love Business majors... and at most minor in the CJ field. My professors in my Masters program currently say the same thing, and its the same way for these Homeland Security degrees that are coming out. They are simply extended CJ degrees with a few courses on terrorism that give basic information you can get online on a decent website. I know what I have done, and it has worked for me.


...and many patrolmen in Mass are making more than most Chief's in NH....must be the price of doing business...


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## Guest

Nighttrain said:


> You're right tacpup, we've all been bribed into getting an education. We've also been bribed into keeping all of our teeth in our mouths. I'm glad to see law enforcement in NH hasen't been bullied into that one! As for being on patrol with a master's degree why can't someone work the street but have desire to learn, to better themselves? Not everyone on the job wants to make rank.
> 
> Grasshopper gets banned for using big words yet this tool is basically calling us all corrupt and that our educations aren't real. I'm far more offended by my character being questioned than by them big ole' college words. This kid is a stooge.


Well put as usual! Hey, I'd rather have your words than mine any day and twice on Sunday! "Stooge" I love it! I'm shamelessly going to steal that one.


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## Guest

94c said:


> Not that I would ever think of becoming a chief but, I'll take politics over any degree, from any place, you can up with.
> 
> Where a degree comes from has absolutely nothing to do with becoming a chief.


Two mutually exclusive issues at work here;

1) What school for doctoral study - nothing to do with being a chief.

2) Education requirements to be a chief as seen in classified ads - almost always a Bachelor's at minimum, nothing to do with doctoral study.


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## Sleepmed

Franklin Pierce in Ringe, NH and Ana Maria College in Paxton, MA are two of the best schools for Criminal Justice.


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