# NOT A JOB POSTING. Bristol Comm. Coll. arming debate



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Ok, this is OLD news now, I know that and thankfully, from what I understand, BCC is armed. What lead me to post this is two pronged and to post it hear is part of one of the prongs.

I watched a PUBLIC FORUM on Bristol Community College Police being armed a short while ago. It was over an hour long and yes, I DID FF through some of it. It was so gratifying to see the college administration so eloquently state the case for arming those guys, even if they may have had reservations (which didn't seem to be the case). You should watch it. I'll make your blood boil when you hear the one OBVIOUS liberal (who simply could NOT grasp the fact that these guys were ACTUAL POLICE) get up and hog the mike for what seemed like hours, but the panel handles her bullshit wonderfully. With the exception of ONE woman who seemed to have no clue where she stood, and frankly confused the living shit out of me, the crowd was NOT on the side of rationality. It was very interesting.

So, if you're thinking of taking a job as a cop at an institution of learning, keep in mind you will be dealing with these out of touch naïve, utopian freaks on a daily basis, even at a community college (where you LIKE to think more normal people congregate) and if you work at an UNARMED department, it might never happen.

If you work at a municipality, you can watch this to see just what we have to deal with. Sure, we don't deal with the liberal loonies EVERY day, but they're always there and in larger numbers and with more in-put into our livelihood than the liberals in your neighborhoods could ever hope to be, except maybe in Cambridge and Northampton. It ain't easy.






Ironically, just a year later......


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Thanks for posting this brother, it's a very interesting video to watch.

Oh and by the way, your description of being a college police officer is 100% spot on. Anyone looking for a campus PD job needs to read this post and watch this video first.


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

Agreed, with the above and an interesting watch. The shorted haired glasses, an probably hyphenated last named, liberal academia lady, your never going to make happy. So it's not even worth trying because she can't wrap her head around violence and thinks if she doesn't see it currently, it will never happen. She said she will now have worry about bringing little kids with her to take a walk outside on campus and they will now have to "worry" about armed police being around her. That's a debate and conversation ender right there about this whole topic. All they should need to say is that, there might be a day, where an armed police officer might save one or multiple people's lives in an active shooter event by having a firearm they can deploy quickly. Maybe that day will never come, maybe it will never come because the bad guy was going to try it, but found out the police are armed there and decided against it. If that happens, you may never know how close you came to death, but it could be the day you, or someone you knows gets to see another sun rise unknowingly. So does that make having firearms worth it in the end. No offense to FRPD, but seconds count, they are minutes away. There should be no debate, they need to be armed.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

woodyd said:


> If a PD needs to purchase new firearms, they should make the purchase and deploy the equipment. It will probably take months for anyone to notice...


Absolutely right. I do NOT recall what department it was (maybe my former job long before I got there) but the cops had been carrying only at night for a while. Then, the chief just decided that 24 hrs was the only rational thing to do. It DID take months for anyone to notice and when they asked when THIS started and were told, they kind of shrugged. Come to think of it, it WAS my former job. After several years of carrying, after I got there, the debate continued though it was a moot point at that time.

Agreed, make sure you get the approval of the powers that be and JUST DO IT! No worry about 'input' from a clientele you can assume will be left wing and against reality, just DO it. It was nice to hear though that not only was the administration in favor, but the STUDENT BODY had endorsed the idea. SCREW YOU FACULTY!


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## sgtmike1980 (Jun 4, 2016)

Did they ever get armed?


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

sgtmike1980 said:


> Did they ever get armed?


Yes they are, most community colleges are now.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Joel98 said:


> Yes they are, most community colleges are now.


Exactly how many of the 14 community colleges are armed now? Are you sure it's most?


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

I believe RCC is contract security. Middlesex HAD police decades ago, but budget over safety won out and it's now contract. Berkshire is also contract.

I have POLICE patches from both Roxbury and Berkshire, but they're from a LONG time ago and how long they existed is beyond me.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

mpd61 said:


> Exactly how many of the 14 community colleges are armed now? Are you sure it's most?


All are armed besides;

North shore community college - still working on it, almost there even though they've had the guns purchased and locked away for years

Berkshire - security

Roxbury - security

Middlesex - security

Northern Essex - security

Mass bay - unarmed and still working on it

Luckily ALL OTHER CC's now have guns.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

North shore has had the guns purchased and locked away since 2012, believe it or not.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

woodyd said:


> When a Police Department deploys new equipment (of any kind- firearms, cruisers, radios, medical bags), they should just do it.


Think that's what North-Eastern did. Rolled out the rifles, let Marty carry on for day and move on 



woodyd said:


> Offhand I know that Massasoit, Bristol _*and Bunker Hill are armed*_.


Bunker Hill is armed ?
Wow, the city is changing


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

Well, true story... or so I have been told by persons whom I have no reason to mistrust...

Southern Miss had security, unarmed, until the 1960's. They were armed in the mid-1960's but had little authority. In the 1980's they became a Department of Public Safety, still armed. In the 1990's there was a large overhaul of law enforcement licensing in the state, leading to a POST-type commission and certifications. 

At some point in the 1990's the current Director of Public Safety ordered that all the patrol cars be repainted to say POLICE. He also changed the badges and patches. A week or so later the following conversation reportedly took place:

UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: "How long have we had a Police Department?"
VICE PRESIDENT FOR STUDENT AFFAIRS: "What?"

Despite that, it stuck.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

Man, the "campus security" thing gets me every single time. Even after the VP did the presentation stating they are POLICE OFFICERS with the SAME TRAINING as their peers. And even after they corrected her, she still said "security police". I don't get it!


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

CapeSpecial said:


> Man, the "campus security" thing gets me every single time. Even after the VP did the presentation stating they are POLICE OFFICERS with the SAME TRAINING as their peers. And even after they corrected her, she still said "security police". I don't get it!


The problem is we are dealing with uneducated morons.


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

She knows, she's doing it on purpose to delegitimize the department as security and not "real" police. Police have guns in the US. She doesn't view them as police, and doesn't think they should have guns. Even though she has been explained multiple time they are Police. She is probably the same person who reminds everyone she has a doctorate title in her name, and gets upset if you forget it.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Joel98 said:


> The problem is we are dealing with uneducated morons.


OVER Educated morons, not uneducated. Naïve for sure.


Danusmc0321 said:


> She knows, she's doing it on purpose to delegitimize the department as security and not "real" police. Police have guns in the US. She doesn't view them as police, and doesn't think they should have guns. Even though she has been explained multiple time they are Police. She is probably the same person who reminds everyone she has a doctorate title in her name, and gets upset if you forget it.


SPOT ON!


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Kilvinsky said:


> OVER Educated morons, not uneducated. Naïve for sure.


You're right, I should've said uninformed, rather than uneducated.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Cape Cod Community is armed?
That is kinda awesome!


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

mpd61 said:


> Cape Cod Community is armed?
> That is kinda awesome!


Yes


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## me823 (Apr 15, 2009)

We went through a lot of grieve at BCC when becoming armed. Many people call us security, or asked if we are "real Police." They asked what kind of qualifications we had, what training we were going through, if were were going to carry real bullets or rubber bullets, if we could just carry tasers instead of firearms. I couldn't believe the things I heard during our "open forums" were the college community could voice there concerns. Such a lack of respect for the title of campus police officer. If the college removed "campus" from our title and referred to us as police, maybe the public mind frame would change. 
Even when it was decided we could carry firearms, the psychological test we took had an added questionnaire for "campus police," and we had to go through more training than the standard MPTC qualifications per our administration. We are the only department in the college that has to prove then re-prove our competence in our job. 
We have been armed for about 3 years now and we still have students, faculty, staff "scared of our guns."


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

I am so glad they made it illegal to carry a taser without a firearm in this state. There would be a lot of admins giving cops tasers INSTEAD of firearms if that law was not in place.


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## DrPepper (Apr 5, 2016)

Joel98 said:


> North shore has had the guns purchased and locked away since 2012, believe it or not.


That's not correct, and they are armed now


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

me823 said:


> We went through a lot of grieve at BCC when becoming armed. Many people call us security, or asked if we are "real Police." They asked what kind of qualifications we had, what training we were going through, if were were going to carry real bullets or rubber bullets, if we could just carry tasers instead of firearms. I couldn't believe the things I heard during our "open forums" were the college community could voice there concerns. Such a lack of respect for the title of campus police officer. If the college removed "campus" from our title and referred to us as police, maybe the public mind frame would change.
> Even when it was decided we could carry firearms, the psychological test we took had an added questionnaire for "campus police," and we had to go through more training than the standard MPTC qualifications per our administration. We are the only department in the college that has to prove then re-prove our competence in our job.
> We have been armed for about 3 years now and we still have students, faculty, staff "scared of our guns."


So much to respond to, but I'll limit (YES, I REALLY WILL) my input.

First off, BROTHER (Sister?) I feel for you. I've been working at an educational institution for 36 years (2 different) and it still irks me when people say, "So, what do you do?" "I'm a Police Officer." "Oh, what town?" "Blah blah University." "Oh you work Security?" "Did I not just say I'm a Police Officer?" "whatever, but can you arrest people?"
and on it goes. This will take decades to change, though it IS changing. How many of us remember when Sean Collier was killed. I know I called the media to bitch and it's obvious as hell that I was far from the only one because within an hour, Security Guard was dropped and Police Officer was the only termed used*, and I know there is NO WAY IN HELL *I'M* that influential. The term POLICE seems pretty clear to the informed, but to many, EVEN A LOT OF COPS (I'm so sad to say) it's an ambiguous term that clouds when the parent employer is revealed.

You work for a PD that has not been around as long as some of the larger ones, so it's more of a struggle for you. You also, due to having been around less that 50 years, face many moronic academics who never really left the 60s and kind feel superior to 'cops'. My department, and places like BU, Northeastern, UMass are more established and people have just gotten used to us being around and grudgingly accept us. Consider yourself blessed (and I'm sure you do) that you have an administration who's collective heads actually seem to be OUT of the sand. So many college presidents and boards of trustees are still burying their heads or can't manage to get them out of their asses.
Some are so far entrenched in their asses, they run DEAN COLLEGE!

*Side note, I was pissed, I still AM pissed and I always WILL BE PISSED that the collective Campus Police contingent was seated BEHIND the State Police. I've brought it up before and by God I'll bring it up again and again, HE WAS ONE OF OURS and yet we were shoved BACK a dozen or so rows so the State could sit in front. Yeah, I'm VERY Pissed off to this day. A campus cop is murdered and a huge outpouring shows up for him and yet, the campus cops are not worthy of sitting in front. With a few honorable exceptions (people who are or have been on this board), should I ever die in the line of duty, I'd rather have the State Police SKIP my funeral rather than show up and make my own colleagues feel like second class cops. Sorry, rant over for the time being.


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## me823 (Apr 15, 2009)

Kilvinsky said:


> So much to respond to, but I'll limit (YES, I REALLY WILL) my input.
> 
> First off, BROTHER (Sister?) I feel for you. I've been working at an educational institution for 36 years (2 different) and it still irks me when people say, "So, what do you do?" "I'm a Police Officer." "Oh, what town?" "Blah blah University." "Oh you work Security?" "Did I not just say I'm a Police Officer?" "whatever, but can you arrest people?"
> and on it goes. This will take decades to change, though it IS changing. How many of us remember when Sean Collier was killed. I know I called the media to bitch and it's obvious as hell that I was far from the only one because within an hour, Security Guard was dropped and Police Officer was the only termed used*, and I know there is NO WAY IN HELL *I'M* that influential. The term POLICE seems pretty clear to the informed, but to many, EVEN A LOT OF COPS (I'm so sad to say) it's an ambiguous term that clouds when the parent employer is revealed.
> ...


Thanks for the reply. And yes its Brother lol. I know it will take a long time before we will be recognized as police. Just today there was an email sent out by a VICE PRESIDENT referencing the "See something, say something" campaign that campus security is doing....really? But in saying that, we have progressed in a positive direction and continue to progress. There is a new president taking the reigns this year so we will see where we go from here.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

me823 said:


> Thanks for the reply. And yes its Brother lol. I know it will take a long time before we will be recognized as police. Just today there was an email sent out by a VICE PRESIDENT referencing the "See something, say something" campaign that campus security is doing....really? But in saying that, we have progressed in a positive direction and continue to progress. There is a new president taking the reigns this year so we will see where we go from here.


Best of luck. God Speed John Glenn...er, *me823*.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

DrPepper said:


> That's not correct, and they are armed now


That's great to hear they are finally armed, they were one of the last hold-outs.

As far as having the guns for several years, yes that is correct and was confirmed.


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## JD02124 (Sep 20, 2014)

Next up a purposal to arm Boston School PD… and its gone…


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

woodyd said:


> AFAIK, campus Police/SSPOs are not allowed to carry Tasers in MA. 501 CMR 8.00 governs the use of Tasers by law enforcement. Under this regulation, an "authorized officer" is defined as
> "A federal, state or municipal law enforcement officer, or member of a special reaction team in a state prison or designated special operations or tactical team in a county correctional facility."
> Given that only authorized Officers may carry Tasers, and Tasers may only be carried in accordance with 501 CMR 8.00, I don't see a way for campus Police to carry Tasers.
> 
> http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/taser-regulations.pdf


And no rifles. It's bad ju-ju for some people.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

woodyd said:


> AFAIK, campus Police/SSPOs are not allowed to carry Tasers in MA. 501 CMR 8.00 governs the use of Tasers by law enforcement. Under this regulation, an "authorized officer" is defined as
> "A federal, state or municipal law enforcement officer, or member of a special reaction team in a state prison or designated special operations or tactical team in a county correctional facility."
> Given that only authorized Officers may carry Tasers, and Tasers may only be carried in accordance with 501 CMR 8.00, I don't see a way for campus Police to carry Tasers.
> 
> http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/taser-regulations.pdf


I would argue that officers employed by a state owned institution would be considered a "state law enforcement officer" under that CMR. But, it's all up for interpretation and that's just my opinion.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

CapeSpecial said:


> I would argue that officers employed by a state owned institution would be considered a "state law enforcement officer" under that CMR. But, it's all up for interpretation and that's just my opinion.


That is where this state is so far behind the real world. I cannot for the life of me see where the Capitol Police were MORE cops than UMass, Bridgewater State or Massasoit Community College and that is in NO WAY a slight to the Capitol Police (RIP). You are employed by the State in the capacity of a law enforcement officer, why in the HELL are you treated like a second class cops. "Oh, you can arrest HERE, but cross the street and, well, you're NO BODY!" and sadly it's often other cops that are often fucking them over! It's like the THIN BLUE LINE has a hell of a lot gray in it. If any cop in the Commonwealth has lost their job because there's a campus pd in your city or town, or if your pay has been low* because* of this, post on this thread, PLEASE.

With that said, I am glad and I hope and PRAY that the state colleges and universities DUMP SSPO (you're welcome Woody!) once and for all, fall under a uniformed state law governing ALL public institutions of higher learning (not the three currently in existence, and ignored) and NOT EVER be sucked into the Massachusetts State Police. NO MORE MERGERS! UNLESS, there is ONE, UNIFIED STATE UNIVERSITY POLICE. Similar to New York State but more unified and streamlined. They have ONE law covering them, and ONE uniform but each school has it's own chief and the cruisers are marked entirely different.
ONE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY for all universities and colleges, ONE agency with regional directors (captains or deputies) and so forth. THAT would be workable, but will never happen.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

Kilvinsky said:


> That is where this state is so far behind the real world. I cannot for the life of me see where the Capitol Police were MORE cops than UMass, Bridgewater State or Massasoit Community College and that is in NO WAY a slight to the Capitol Police (RIP). You are employed by the State in the capacity of a law enforcement officer, why in the HELL are you treated like a second class cops. "Oh, you can arrest HERE, but cross the street and, well, you're NO BODY!" and sadly it's often other cops that are often fucking them over! It's like the THIN BLUE LINE has a hell of a lot gray in it. If any cop in the Commonwealth has lost their job because there's a campus pd in your city or town, or if your pay has been low* because* of this, post on this thread, PLEASE.
> 
> With that said, I am glad and I hope and PRAY that the state colleges and universities DUMP SSPO (you're welcome Woody!) once and for all, fall under a uniformed state law governing ALL public institutions of higher learning (not the three currently in existence, and ignored) and NOT EVER be sucked into the Massachusetts State Police. NO MORE MERGERS! UNLESS, there is ONE, UNIFIED STATE UNIVERSITY POLICE. Similar to New York State but more unified and streamlined. They have ONE law covering them, and ONE uniform but each school has it's own chief and the cruisers are marked entirely different.
> ONE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC SAFETY for all universities and colleges, ONE agency with regional directors (captains or deputies) and so forth. THAT would be workable, but will never happen.


I've always thought ONE "Massachusetts State Campus Police" agency or similarly titled would be the way to go. Everybody works for the same agency, and is simply assigned at one of the various public campuses. And everyone can work at the other campuses if needed. And everyone has state wide law enforcement authority. But, like you said, it will never happen.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Every administration needs CONTROL!


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## pjsweat1 (May 8, 2007)

Which administration are you talking about? I presume you mean the College Administrations, but have you considered that the legislature would block it? Our unions don't work with each other, they work against each other to protect their members interests, not the interests of the citizens of the Commonwealth. Why wouldn't municipal or state police unions work against a State College PD with more than 250 officers? With statewide jurisdiction? Able to get details across the state? It makes sense to some, but not the ones in control with political clout.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Well, I essentially was focused on the individual administrations at the individual institutions, but you make a good point. As far as details statewide, that's already a moot point, as far as UMass goes anyway. They've been working each other's campuses for decades.

Each union SHOULD look out for it's individual members, that's the purpose and I for one would never advocate any college pouncing on another jurisdiction's jobs. If a city, town or state agency OFFERS extra details, well, that's fine and already happens in many locales, but to be standing up saying, "It's not on our campus, but it's OUR detail" is just wrong anyway.


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## RROD (Jul 3, 2008)

To add to the college pd as pd. If all goes well QCC will be awarded Accreditation, yes Acceditation not just certification with the Mass Police Accreditation Commision on October 12th. It is an example of equal footing with municipal pds.


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## CapeSpecial (Nov 1, 2013)

RROD said:


> To add to the college pd as pd. If all goes well QCC will be awarded Accreditation, yes Acceditation not just certification with the Mass Police Accreditation Commision on October 12th. It is an example of equal footing with municipal pds.


What?


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## sgtmike1980 (Jun 4, 2016)

Who gives two shits about accreditation, how much do I make and how many details are available and how many vac days can I get!


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

sgtmike1980 said:


> Who gives two shits about accreditation, how much do I make and how many details are available and how many vac days can I get!


I fully see your point and I DO NOT totally disagree, but the point where I DO disagree is in that, accreditation is not all it's cracked up to be. But it does add to credibility. OUTSIDE of LE, no one has a clue what it means, but to be able to wave that in the faces of anyone who doubts the agencies legitimacy, is priceless.

But yeah, essentially I have the attitude of the Mob in "Goodfellas" "Fuck you, pay me." Damn, I LOVE That line!

Now the guy's got Paulie as a partner. Any problems, he goes to Paulie. Trouble with the bill? He can go to Paulie. Trouble with the cops, deliveries, Tommy, he can call Paulie. But now the guy's gotta come up with Paulie's money every week, no matter what. Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me.


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