# Pro Gun= Anti Police? Officer Safety?



## Ptac

Alright guys I need some help with this. To start, I'm a rookie. Only been on the Job for about 2 years. Although I work in a very busy city and I've had to learn quick, I'm still green. So maybe this is why I don't understand why people who are Pro Gun are anti cop. I am a very pro gun guy, always have been. I shoot alot and run a firearms training business on the side. So I frequent a few pro gun sites. My issue is EVERY gun site I've seen, there has been a LARGE population of anti-police and/or government in general. I mean absurdly so. Guys going out of their way to bash police. What is the deal?

Officer safety portion= Many of these sites (northeastshooters, opencarry, etc.) have members that are openly hostile to police and regularly state they will commit to violence. This is usually the "come take my guns and I'll use them" type of stuff. Now I get it, it's a few guys on each site that are openly violent, but the issue is the forums as a whole (including moderators) ALLOW it or encourage it.

Maybe I'm behind the curve, but it turns my stomach to see and hear what guys put up. And yes I've been banned for trying to show them our perspective.


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## Goose

I'll give you Colorado as a perfect example.,,

The Sheriffs are elected by the people and generally reflect the will of their constituents. If they don't reflect the will of their constituents, they will essentially get fired (voted out) at the next election. Almost every single Sheriff in Colorado was against the gun laws being proposed. They were vocal about it. They held press conferences, rallies, and dozens of them went down to the state capitol to testify against the proposed gun control bills.

Police Chiefs on the other hand, are appointed by the city administration - the town/city administrator/manager, the city council, etc. They essentially do what these people (either politicians themselves or damn close to it) want them to do. If they don't - they once again get fired and replaced. The Chiefs of Police Association in Colorado was one of the groups that was in favor of the proposed gun control bills.

Having Police Chiefs (once again, appointed) in Massachusetts deciding who can and cannot own firearms does not make them very popular. The system here in MA is broken and no one can pull their head out of their ass long enough to fix it. Having Chiefs concerned about liability (since there is nothing in MGL exempting them from liability for a good faith decision based on firearms licensing) and the leadership of the cities and towns being anti-gun does not help things. It trickles down, and then people don't trust police officers to be pro-gun because people above them are anti-gun.

The vast majority of police officers (as well as members on this site) are FOR the Second Amendment. I would suggest showing folks the study on police officers stances on gun control that Police One did last year. It is very enlightening.


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## Ptac

That makes sense, but you can't even talk to these guys and say that. They immediately jump on the anti stuff and go right to violent statements. I was just looking in a forum that someone was posting to leave your loaded rifle at your bedside specifically in case police serve a warrant. Went on to describe the defense they would use after firing on police. The violent undertones blows my mind. 

How do the pro gun police reach out to pro gun police haters? I know I have a different perspective about gun rights just due to the calls I go to. I'm all set with LK guys automatically getting guns because of 2A. I'm not ok MLDs getting machine guns because pro gun guys believe anyone should have any gun the .gov has. It rubs me wrong to be threatened with violence due to a political disagreement.


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## OfficerObie59

Does some of the pro-RKBA community take it over the top? Sure, I'd say on occasion they do. I think that a lot of the "more equal than others" sentiment is misdirected at the police, rather than those who actually make those laws.

But the basis for much of their discontent with LE is well-grounded. Frank nailed much of it in his second paragraph. Additionally, many gun owners feel as if they're only one small unintentional and harmless misstep from having their 2nd Amendment rights taken away, for the smallest of transgressions.

But then again, it doesn't even need to be your fault. Even if you keep your 40 guns in a vault and they all get stolen, you might get charged with manufacturing explosives if you happen to reload your own ammunition.

http://www.lowellsun.com/local/ci_19424476

There's a great deal of chiefs who break the law knowing there'd be no repercussions--for example, take Comm2A's most recent lawsuit against Dighton PD for revoking an FID card based on "suitability", which the statutory text doesn't allow. How do you claim you took the guy's permit for a 131L violation when your own reports state there was no violation to begin with? Note also, a black power rifle (for which no license is necessary, see Comm. v. Bibby) was also seized.

http://www.comm2a.org/images/cases/Plouffe_Complaint.pdf

As police officers, we should be very concerned about our Chief's discretion in revoking LTC's. Not only for the reasons that we should care that the rights of the citizenry we serve aren't being violated, but also because Chiefs can use it to abuse their termination power. Based on case law that a chief can fire an officer who does not have an LTC per policy (see Wheeler v. Town of Franklin) take for example, the recent firing of an officer from Quincy PD based upon a discretionary LTC revocation.

http://www.patriotledger.com/news/x1433775626/Quincy-cops-firing-upheld-lack-of-gun-license-cited

Additionally, correlation doesn't imply causation. I think the those gun owners who strongly dislike police do so mainly due to strong libertarian leanings gun owners hold, rather than simply by virtue of being gun owners. And that discussion opens up a whole new can of worms.

And I'll be the first to admit, each one of those stories above probably has a backstory that makes what occurred make a bit more understandable. But we live in a nation of laws that have to be followed, and we as the police shouldn't be able to break the law to enforce it, or use people's gun rights as an end run to serve our own purposes.


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## 7costanza

Im pro RKBA pro LE...Anti NES as are a handful of ppl on here...Im not a Cop just smart enough to know who MAKES the laws and who ENFORCES the laws. I have said stuff like " come and take it" many times, NOT dircted at LEOs doing their everyday job but moreso our current admin and the possibility of them confiscating firearms(which has happend under Bush) and WILL NOT happen again. If I fuck up (ND,AD,arrest)and I have to forfeit my LTC I will be the first person to hand it over becasue thats the right thing to do, I think alot of us are more than worried about gun confiscation by this admin, whether its during a "crisis" storm,power loss,rioting,collapse of our economy,ebt stops or flat out gun confiscation. If you step back and look at the members of society being targetted by our Govt its US so I can understand the "come and take it" mentality but I cannot stand the everyday non stop Cop bashing on some sites its just not accurate with how my 30+ yrs of working,living,training,interracting with LEOs of all types has been. Their are stories with LEOS that come out that make me shake my head and say WTF but I see it as a societal problem as LE is a small percentage of society of course the lowering of morals is going to creep into that demo, and since the story is in the news it proves that they are dealing with it and NOT hiding it like the antis think. I truly feel for any Cop these days, the media and pols have done a great job of painting YOU guys as the enemy while they laugh at the laws they make and ask you to enforce them. If the people have such a problem they have a few paths to choose, move to Texas, get involved in poltiics and vote in pro RKBA pols or STFU.


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## Ptac

Obie, your the perfect guy to ask this, maybe in a less heated environment. Ive talked to multiple times on that site and you've always been a reasonable guy. So with that being said, you know those guys get violent. There is no other word for it. I can post many threads that are pure anti-police and have a violent posts. The last thread I was in (before they banned me) was the "litmus test, will you shoot American?" Honestly just reading the title should cause a flag to go up.

My officer safety concern is this: Your aware that alot of the pro gun (libertarian also) guys believe you shouldn't confiscate based on 209As. That is a part of our job. Not asking whether you would or do, but I know there is someone in our line of work who has or does do it. So how long before that officer goes to one of those guys houses and gets shot? I get it, it's a few extreme guys. I've gotten numerous ims from guys on there saying "ignore those couple guys we don't all feel that way", but everyone allows it. The guys who step up and say "Hey it's not cool to say your going to shoot guys in their cruisers" get banned. 

Disclaimer: Not anti NES, I'd gladly rejoin if they let me and talk to anyone and everyone. I'm anti guys getting shot because they disagree politically.


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## Joel98

Ptac said:


> Alright guys I need some help with this. To start, I'm a rookie. Only been on the Job for about 2 years. Although I work in a very busy city and I've had to learn quick, I'm still green. So maybe this is why I don't understand why people who are Pro Gun are anti cop. I am a very pro gun guy, always have been. I shoot alot and run a firearms training business on the side. So I frequent a few pro gun sites. My issue is EVERY gun site I've seen, there has been a LARGE population of anti-police and/or government in general. I mean absurdly so. Guys going out of their way to bash police. What is the deal?
> 
> Officer safety portion= Many of these sites (northeastshooters, opencarry, etc.) have members that are openly hostile to police and regularly state they will commit to violence. This is usually the "come take my guns and I'll use them" type of stuff. Now I get it, it's a few guys on each site that are openly violent, but the issue is the forums as a whole (including moderators) ALLOW it or encourage it.
> 
> Maybe I'm behind the curve, but it turns my stomach to see and hear what guys put up. And yes I've been banned for trying to show them our perspective.


It is because a lot of them have their heads up their asses, and automatically associate the police with BIG BROTHER. They do this because we are the most visible part of the government's enforcement arm. This is their big mistake, because what they don't realize, is that the MAJORITY of cops are conservative and pro-gun themselves, and that we DO NOT like big brother either.


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## Ptac

Again, not bashing them or claiming heads are anywhere. It's just disconcerting to read it. Literally just about everyday someone makes a comment that has an undertone of violence. So much so that they've commented before about being on "watch lists" and remind guys to watch what they post. Like I said that kind of mentality is new to me and I can't wrap my head around it. I'd hate to work in a town where they have a rally or an event.

The sad part is there's actually a lot of really smart good guys on there and we'd get alot more accomplished if it wasn't so abrasive.


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## kwflatbed

Ptac I am not a LEO and have also made statements here on MC that if anyone comes to my house to take my firearms they will be met with force, I am 71 years old and have owned firearms all of my life with never a problem. My question to you is if your chief ordered you to come to my house and forcibly take my firearms for no reason are you going to follow those orders or are you going to stand up to your chief and not enforce the order? We have had LEO's say that they will not enforce this and we have also had them say if it is ordered they will. I am also a Life Endowment Member of the NRA on the board of the NRA-ILA belong to GOAL and a number of other gun rights groups and will defended the 2nd amendment to the end like our forefathers did.


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## Ptac

KW, no I wouldn't just walk into your house and take your guns because someone told me and there was no other reason.

There's a million reasons why I could agree with someone going into someones house and taking their guns, but "just because someone told me to" isn't one of them.

My issue is with extremes on either end. The guy who says "I will enforce anything my Chief says..." and the guy who says " I'll never give up my guns even if you have a warrant" are both wrong. Neither side will win. It takes common sense thinking, which alot of guys I know actually do. Your wife calls and says you beat her and threatened to kill her, your guns are coming and probably you as well. The Chief says, "Go get his guns just because I said so" then no, have someone else doing it because I know that's wrong.


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## Hush

Its not the confiscation of guns for no reason....its the "murky but lawful" orders that are the problem. Lapsed license because the PD takes 8 months to renew it, unsubstantiated 209A, "suitability", etc. There are plenty of lawful reasons PD's seize guns, doesn't make them right.


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## Ptac

Agreed. It's LE. Not many things are perfectly clear cut hence discretion. 

Perfect example though, so if a guy has a lapsed license and the PD comes to take it (how they would even know or have the time to do that no idea). I assuming the firearms would be stored somewhere until his LTC was completed and would be returned. Does that suck? Yes. But what's the proposed solution? Refuse and get arrested? Or worse shoot the cop at your door step?

209A stuff sucks and I've never met an officer that WANTS to take stuff. Is the solution we don't agree so let them keep the guns and shoot their wife? We error on the side of caution for a pure safety reason.


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## kwflatbed

Hush I have been fighting for national lic and taking it out of the hands of the states and local PD's as long as I have been on the NRA-ILA board. I really though we had a good shot at it this year until all of the mass shootings and the rest of the crap. We need one set of laws that all have to abide by not different laws for every state, city, town, etc. and we need the a$$hole out of the White House.

Ptac I am talking about the legal duly lic firearm holders that Obama and company wants to strip of their rights.


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## Hush

Have your guns confiscated, stored in a bonded warehouse at usurious rates, tens of thousands in legal fees, the possibility of never getting them back.....all for something that's not your fault in the first place. 
The threat of broad confiscation is very real. Its happened all over the world, and we're just a few votes one way or the other from potentially seeing it here. When its done, it will be enacted sneakily. Everyone on BOTH sides needs a firm red line that they won't cross. Without that, it will be too late. Look at NY and CT. Now NY is arresting people for loading one too many bullets into a magazine. The flip side is CO, where gun grabbers were yanked out of office. Its troubling times ahead, for sure. I hope neither side moves towards violence.


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## Ptac

That's my point Hush, it seems one side is already heading towards violence. I've seen so many comments "when I see the police going to my neighbors I'm getting my guns", "sleep with an loaded rifle by my bed in case they do a home invasion (warrant)". I don't see guys on this website talking about shooting dogs or how much fun no knock warrants are. So why is the other side so quick to call for violence and pin it on "fighting for rights". Comparing yourself (not you per se Hush) to guys that actually fought in the Rev. doesn't make them cool. Guys throw words around like "patriots" and "freedom fighters" around and wouldn't know one if it slapped them in the face.

I also agree I hope neither "side" moves towards violence, but again I can clearly see the side that's foaming at the mouth and picturing the glory of it.


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## mpd61

I'm pro-gun as hell. I'm also a green-member over at NES. There are a tangible portion of the membership over there that are, at first glance, cyber hard-guys. As a matter of fact they sound like angry children. There probably are a very, very, very few who are actually committed to murdering us when we show up lawfully at their door with valid warrants or 209A situations. Don't worry about it Ptac,


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## 7costanza

Good video on this subject.

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2013/01...o-refuse-to-enforce-gun-bans-or-registration/

Oath Keeper Officer Calls on Brother Cops to Refuse to Enforce Gun Bans or Registration

In this video, Oathkeeper151, a New Jersey Police Officer who has been a member of Oath Keepers since 2009, makes it clear that he will not obey orders that violate the Bill of Rights. In particular, he says he will not be used as a tool of oppression against the American people who resist and refuse to comply with infringement on their right to bear arms, such as legislation or executive orders that decree they must register, get finger printed and photographed, like a criminal.
He asks his fellow officers what they are going to do if that happens. Will they keep their oaths? Here is his own description of his video:
In this video I ask my fellow Police Officers what they would do, if they were given an unlawful order. I also touch on the Assault Weapons Ban introduced by Senator Feinstein, and how this bill has the potential of putting us Police Officers in a very bad/even fatal predicament.​I spoke to him on the phone and he made it clear that he is not afraid to take this public stand because this is what needs to happen. He says the peace officers across America need to stand up and let the people know that they are on the side of the Bill of Rights, and that they will protect the rights of the people. In one of the comments on his video, another officer had this to say:
I'll lay my badge down, stop doing what I love if someone tries to make me do something immoral or unconstitutional. Good video, take care​Oathkeeper151 agrees. He told me that if there were door to door raids for guns against Americans who refused to comply with registration or bans, he would either defend the people with his badge on, stepping between them and the oath breakers doing the raids, or he would lay his badge down on the table and then go join the people in resisting. He loves his work as a police officer, but his oath, and his responsibility to protect the people of his community, is more important than his job. His oath comes first. The rights of the people come first&#8230;. and he is not alone.
Molon Labe,
Stewart Rhodes
Founder of Oath Keepers


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## Ptac

That doesn't address the scope of it though. It makes sense to say he would lay down his badge and "resist" if there was all out ban on any and every firearm and if the .gov was going door to door in "raids". What about if they passed the CA law against semi autos? Better questions is what if the states passed an amendment scrapping 2a? Then what leg does anyone have to stand on? It means the oath they took would now mean they would have to confiscate weapons. So would they immediately pick up their badges and confiscate guns?

This is what I mean about the lines in the sand. It doesn't work.


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## Harley387

http://www.policestateusa.com/2013/...tudent-faces-prison-for-owning-gun-magazines/

Here's a good example of what is driving the anti LEO sentiment. I do agree that the majority of us are pro 2A. However, policing is to some extent, politics. We all know that politicians are whores. I have spoken with my chief. He knows where I stand. Did I risk my job in doing so? Yes. But I'm not a whore. I take pride in doing my job and maintaining my integrity. I wish that more of my brothers and sisters felt the same.


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## Harley387

Ptac said:


> That doesn't address the scope of it though. It makes sense to say he would lay down his badge and "resist" if there was all out ban on any and every firearm and if the .gov was going door to door in "raids". What about if they passed the CA law against semi autos? Better questions is what if the states passed an amendment scrapping 2a? Then what leg does anyone have to stand on? It means the oath they took would now mean they would have to confiscate weapons. So would they immediately pick up their badges and confiscate guns?
> 
> This is what I mean about the lines in the sand. It doesn't work.


I don't know about anyone else's oath, but mine was to uphold the constitutional rights of citizens. One of those is the right to keep and bear arms. This is not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic. This means that even if 99.999% of the public wants to ban guns, without changing that constitutional amendment, my individual RIGHT is protected. But again.....there are those who "need that pay check", and will sell out.


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## Ptac

That was my point Harley. If they changed that amendment, then there goes that leg to stand on. Then you would have to follow your oath and be the first guy in the door to confiscate weapons. Everyone is so worried about the .gov stealing guns all they would have to do is push an amendment that clarifies it. 

Again, my concern is officer safety. To include your own. When you wear a uniform your a target even if you are pro 2a.


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## Hush

From an officer safety perspective, I'd worry more about the real criminals, and not the loudmouth internet tough guys.


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## Mr Scribbles

Hush said:


> From an officer safety perspective, I'd worry more about the real criminals, and not the loudmouth internet tough guys.


 The dreaded "Keyboard Kommando"


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## Ptac

So that's basically the consensus of everyone? That it's just hard talk? I obviously hope so, but wouldn't want to dismiss something that could get someone hurt.


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## Hush

It's a lot of bluster...by people that spend a lot of money on licenses, and follow purchasing and storage laws to a T.


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## Ptac

Have you or anyone been hassled by these guys? I'm in the south east so there aren't many this way. I noticed alot of guys posting videos from encounters while they open carry. They will purposely open carry in an area that they know will freak out the neighbors so they call the PD, then they immediately ask "AM I BEING DETAINED!". I get video tape at least a few times a week (if not shift) but that's because the area I work is very "tight knit", we'll call it. So every time you put the bracelets on, 6 dudes whip phones out hoping you say something. Every stop has small groups forming to watch the whole process. But I haven't been trolled (hate that word) yet.


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## Joel98

Ptac said:


> Have you or anyone been hassled by these guys? I'm in the south east so there aren't many this way. I noticed alot of guys posting videos from encounters while they open carry. They will purposely open carry in an area that they know will freak out the neighbors so they call the PD, then they immediately ask "AM I BEING DETAINED!". I get video tape at least a few times a week (if not shift) but that's because the area I work is very "tight knit", we'll call it. So every time you put the bracelets on, 6 dudes whip phones out hoping you say something. Every stop has small groups forming to watch the whole process. But I haven't been trolled (hate that word) yet.


Just stay professional, and do your job like you do on every other stop, it's not a big deal.


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## OfficerObie59

Ptac said:


> Obie, your the perfect guy to ask this, maybe in a less heated environment. Ive talked to multiple times on that site and you've always been a reasonable guy. So with that being said, you know those guys get violent. There is no other word for it. I can post many threads that are pure anti-police and have a violent posts. The last thread I was in (before they banned me) was the "litmus test, will you shoot American?" Honestly just reading the title should cause a flag to go up.
> 
> My officer safety concern is this: Your aware that alot of the pro gun (libertarian also) guys believe you shouldn't confiscate based on 209As. That is a part of our job. Not asking whether you would or do, but I know there is someone in our line of work who has or does do it. So how long before that officer goes to one of those guys houses and gets shot? I get it, it's a few extreme guys. I've gotten numerous ims from guys on there saying "ignore those couple guys we don't all feel that way", but everyone allows it. The guys who step up and say "Hey it's not cool to say your going to shoot guys in their cruisers" get banned.
> 
> Disclaimer: Not anti NES, I'd gladly rejoin if they let me and talk to anyone and everyone. I'm anti guys getting shot because they disagree politically.


 Listen, I'm not going to defend anyone or their specific comments, or attempt to rationalize what anyone else has said. Who knows if they actually mean what they type. And to be clear, I've never heard anyone there specifically talk about an instance as clear cut as a 209A, other than to have a plan in place to have your guns transferred before you get served.

What I will say is that this Saturday will be my fifth NES shoot up at Monadnock, and no one has ever uttered an unkind word to me. To the contrary, some of the guys with whom I disagree the most and set threads ablaze with are some of the nicest, stand up dudes you'd ever have the chance to meet. That includes Derek, who I'm privileged to be on a first name basis with and who has been kind enough to welcome me into his home for a beer or two. And we've disagreed on stuff, sure. But rational men of intelligent thought will do that.

I think on occasion a thread will devolve into an anti-cop circle jerk, and I've said as much. When it has no basis in fact and is founded in prejudicial animus, I call it out.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...en-search-it?p=3159566&viewfull=1#post3159566

And that "out yourself" BS goes up my ass sideways.


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## pahapoika

Had to leave one site after being a member for a long time. A bad element had taken over and the anti-cop rhetoric become absurd.

Since most peoples exposure to police is usually a traffic citation it was hard to believe where all that crazy talk came from ?

Told them if they didn't like the firearm laws they should vote for new politicians, but arguing with a bunch of toothless hllbillies proved hopeless.


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## Ptac

I'd love to have gone to shoot, got banned for disagreeing way before I had the chance.

Obie I'd never expect or ask you to defend anyone. I know your good friends with alot of the guys, and I don't mean to bash anyone. I'm not trying to call any guy on there out or even giving any links to a bunch of examples. I'm talking in general about the site itself. I already said it's a only a few guys that take it to the extreme, but like I said the rest of the site just lets it be. And at any given time, it seems there's just as many "look at what this dumb cop did, look at how they are violating your rights" threads on there as there are actual gun threads.

So many of the guys have posted that the site runs off any police except for a few that they are buddies with, because it's a constant bash fest. And for a while there, especially after sandyhook and all the gun leg. came out, there was a surge of violent responses. The very thread you posted shows what I mean, you were getting lit up and bashed for trying to talk sense. Not the mention, the sole point of the entire thread was anti-cop.

I appreciate the outlook Obie, I honestly wish more guys on there or who run the site were calmer and didn't ban guys for dumb things. When you cull the herd to only have guys who either agree or disagree quietly (except for a few) then you get a site that seems seems anti-cop and pro-gun. Hence my Anti-cop = Pro-gun question.


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## Ptac

Actually Obie, and interesting fact. I'm reading through a past thread and I can see they sanitize them and take out some of the posts after they have been posted. I didn't know that till now.


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## kwflatbed

*The Obama Wish !!!*


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## pahapoika

_*And at any given time, it seems there's just as many "look at what this dumb cop did, look at how they are violating your rights" threads on there as there are actual gun threads*_

Could be the jealousy factor as well. There are guys at the range who take pride in out shooting cops and always ask,

why you don't carry 24/7 ?
practice being a better shot
carry 2 guns, etc


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## mpd61

Joel98 said:


> Just stay professional, and do your job like you do on every other stop, it's not a big deal.


Again Ptac,

It is indeed the consensus here...You NEVER know what you might run into out in this _profession_ on any given day, week, or year. So rely on you training and be _professional._
Leave the worrying to the paranoid folks. Stay safe and have a decalf.....


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## OfficerObie59

Ptac said:


> Actually Obie, and interesting fact. I'm reading through a past thread and I can see they sanitize them and take out some of the posts after they have been posted. I didn't know that till now.


No one has ever deleted my posts.

Are you sure it's what you're saying rather than how you're saying it? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am kindly encouraging you to engage into some empathy (in the strict sense without the colloquial sympathy component) into how your posts may be perceived.


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## 7costanza

Ptac said:


> Actually Obie, and interesting fact. I'm reading through a past thread and I can see they sanitize them and take out some of the posts after they have been posted. I didn't know that till now.


Meh, I got banned also over there it happens on every site. I wouldnt worry to much about those guys the 27% that act like that think their heading for that mysterious Google barge for re education. If you want a job where your loved lateral to the Fire Dept and start practicing holding a sign that reads "Clinton/Warren 2016".


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## Ptac

OfficerObie59 said:


> No one has ever deleted my posts.
> 
> Are you sure it's what you're saying rather than how you're saying it? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I am kindly encouraging you to engage into some empathy (in the strict sense without the colloquial sympathy component) into how your posts may be perceived.


They haven't deleted my posts, I'm saying they've deleted posts from other guys that were violent. Remember the "we will shoot you in your cruiser " conversation? Not sure if you were part of that one, it was interesting. Or the " we know where you live, work, and sleep, but you won't ever know us or see us coming".

I realized they are deleted because I checked an old thread, and you can see myself and some other guys referencing these posts, but the posts themselves are mysteriously gone. They never deleted anything I said, they just deleted me period. If it was "how I said it", I wish I knew how better to put something. I never swore at guys, tried to follow the forum rules and still got called a "troll" for disagreeing.

Again, not trying to bash anyone. After the posts I read, I was legitimately concerned if it's all just talk or what the deal was. Most of the guys on here seem to take it as just talk. Not sure if that's ignoring a threat or if it's just being smarter then me. (not hard to do)

It's a moot point anyways. It appears they cull the herd for anyone who openly and maybe "aggressively" disagrees with what they say. So be it, I've moved on and I've sure their happy not to have anyone disagree with them. Just hope everyone stays safe on both "sides".


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## Ptac

7costanza said:


> Meh, I got banned also over there it happens on every site. I wouldnt worry to much about those guys the 27% that act like that think their heading for that mysterious Google barge for re education. If you want a job where your loved lateral to the Fire Dept and start practicing holding a sign that reads "*Clinton/Warren 2016*".


Never. I'm content in life, I sleep just fine at night.


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## mpd61

Ptac said:


> Never. I'm content in life, I sleep just fine at night.


Except for the occasional nightmare where a group of NES'ers sneak up on your cruiser and drill you like Sonny Corleone in the Godfather


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