# Tuition for illegals put back on the table



## kwflatbed

Here we go again.

* Associated Press
*Monday, November 16, 2009

It seemed like a given that Mario Rodas would go to college.
The Guatemalan-born student certainly had the academic credentials, going from English as a second language classes to taking advanced placement exams for college credit his senior year at Chelsea High School.

Tuition for illegals put back on the table - BostonHerald.com


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## sean37

well judging by the picture of him he has at least one full arm, looks like the other is ok. ill assume he has 2 working legs.

I guess he could get a job to pay for college????


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## MetrowestPD

The real slap in the face here is, if someone from New Hampshire, who is an American Citizen, wants to go to a school in Massachusetts, they would have to pay out of state tuition. But these entitlement pukes want all the benefits without buying into the system.


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## justacitizen

Okay, As a student and tax paying citizen I am pissed.Why hasn't he saved enough to go while he has waited?? Why can I not transfer back to Mass.??Because I cannot afford the out of state tuition.BOO HOO tough luck.I know people who are selling their homes to pay for tuition because the sucky economy ate the savings as they waited for things to get better.If someone not born here is given more than those of us that were.........IT IS WRONG.Yet it has been the way it goes for as long as I can remember.WRONG,VERY WRONG.


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## MichaelJones

We should be encouraging legal intelligent immigrants, not illegals.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> They still have no excuse for getting a free education. We all had to pay, so should everyone else. It doesn't matter if you're the pope or an illegal immigrant! Pay up!


Actually, encouraging intelligent immigrants only improves our country when they work for American Business.

You put in a little, but get a lot in the end.


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## Eagle13

I have to pay, they should have to pay. They should also be paying the out of state fee because, well, they are from "out-of-state".


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## MichaelJones

People are so obsessed with paying "their own way" that they forget America is not just an individual but an entire population of people. The more intelligent, healthy, competent Americans helping pay taxes and keep American business above the rest, is worth it.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> I never disputed that. I was just saying everyone should pay, regardless of who they are. If the legal immigrants foot the tuition bill, more power to them.


The problem is, these immigrants are usually coming from poor countries. With little or no education, and even less funds. Which is why we help them get their start.. So they can in the end provide benefit for our country.


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## Eagle13

If it mean that I must suffer so someone else can get ahead, I am not for that! It is bull.


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## uspresident1

Wolfman said:


> If they're not citizens of the US, how can they be citizens of MA? And if they're not citizens of MA and get in-state rates, why can't a student from Connecticut get in state rates? They're just as much not a MA citizen as Guat-boy is.
> 
> Since when is someone *entitled* to a college education? Gee, student visas are good enough for everyone else from around the world. Why are we rewarding end-runs and criminal behavior?
> 
> And what is the end goal here - so the college educated Guatemalans can do the jobs that college educated AMERICANS won't do? Last time I looked we had more then enough college educated citizens who were looking for work. Why fuck them over?


As always, very well said Wolf. This really is a disgrace. I should have grown up in the 50's.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> I couldn't care less about the "entire population of people". That "entire population of people" you speak of didn't contribute one cent towards my education. Get a loan, get an education, and pay it off when you're done.


I know, this is a typical American attitude. It's all about the me, and rarely about the collective. We sink or swim together, what benefits someone else benefits us all in the end. America is sinking to the bottom, slowly but surely both Republicans and Democrats can see it. We can see india, we can see china gaining stature in the world. No one contributed to my education, but that doesn't mean I don't believe more "Americans" being highly educated and productive is worth the price. Certainly over systems that have no obvious benefits.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> You've fallen off your rocker kid.


Not really, just a business owner. Who can see the obvious failings of American culture when compared to more collective orientated countries such as Japan.

A better civilian population, that works together and is willing to sacrifice to help others.. Builds a strong country, and has been severely lacking in American values in recent years.


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## kwflatbed

If you don't like it here move the fuck to Japan.


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## MichaelJones

kwflatbed said:


> If you don't like it here move the fuck to Japan.


Incorrect, it's not that I don't like it here. It's that I want to make my country more powerful and continue our economic futures as leader.

Why is simply having an idea contrary to yours mean I don't want to be here, after all... discussion, debate is a key to our countries government working.


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## uspresident1

MichaelJones said:


> The problem is, these immigrants are usually coming from poor countries. With little or no education, and even less funds. Which is why we help them get their start.. So they can in the end provide benefit for our country.


How's about they stay in that dump country they came from and try to improve it? I am sick of this country being the world's doormat. The U.S takes in more immigrints than the rest of the world combined. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be entitled to anything.

As far as them "benefiting our country" do you want to know how much of that money they send back to their native country. I can tell you first hand that many of them do. They don't learn our language, they don't contribute to society, they could careless about our values. If they want citizenship they should go enlist for 4 years.


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## MichaelJones

uspresident1 said:


> How's about they stay in that dump country they came from and try to improve it? I am sick of this country being the world's doormat. The U.S takes in more immigrints than the rest of the world combined. As far as I'm concerned they shouldn't be entitled to anything.
> 
> As far as them "benefiting our country" do you want to know how much of that money they send back to their native country. I can tell you first hand that many of them do. They don't learn our language, they don't contribute to society, they could careless about our values. If they want citizenship they should go enlist for 4 years.


1776 we were and have always been the worlds doormat. We are a country founded and ran by immigrants. The statue of liberty, says bring me your poor your huddled masses.

Hard to change what we've always been.



LawMan3 said:


> Well consider this mr. business owner...if these people are having their hands held through everything, that encourages laziness and dependability, and it disallows one to grow and stand on their own two feet. There is a serious lack of motivation in today's society, and I'm proud of my achievements because I got myself there on my own two feet, all by myself.


Helping people pay for college hardly encourages laziness or dependability. Actually it provides learning of a skill that can be translated to the work place. Encouraging laziness, is welfare in a nutshell.


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## 263FPD

Hey Mike, you must have a heck of day job. You have any work to do between posting? I am just saying, because you are obviously a civilian, so it's less likely that you work nights like most of us.


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## MetrowestPD

MichaelJones said:


> Actually, encouraging intelligent immigrants only improves our country when they work for American Business.
> 
> You put in a little, but get a lot in the end.


And this immigrant took the spot of an American who couldn't afford it, because we give the tuition breaks to immigrants.

Several of these immigrants come here get the free education from K-12, then college, and grad school all on the tax-payers dime; then they return home with the education.

*Encouraging intelligent AMERICANS vastly improves our country when they work for American Business.*


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## MichaelJones

263FPD said:


> Hey Mike, you must have a heck of day job. You have any work to do between posting? I am just saying, because you are obviously a civilian, so it's less likely that you work nights like most of us.


I run my own business, and am free to spend my day-time doing as I please. Be it work, or posting.


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## 263FPD

I find some issues with Mr. Jones' mentality. My family came here from Ukraine in 1979. I was 11. No one gave us anything. We somehow survived. We came here legally I might add. 

The illegals coming to the US are a huge problem. Every one of them comes with their hand stretched out palm up,and guess what? Our government just keeps on giving. Why is it that my parents had to work for it, and these people need only ask?


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## MetrowestPD

MichaelJones said:


> 1776 we were and have always been the worlds doormat. We are a country founded and ran by immigrants. The statue of liberty, says bring me your poor your huddled masses.
> 
> Hard to change what we've always been.
> 
> Helping people pay for college hardly encourages laziness or dependability. Actually it provides learning of a skill that can be translated to the work place. Encouraging laziness, is welfare in a nutshell.


Mike, as a family grows and you have four kids, then five, then six at some point you must stop, because you can't afford all of them and you would be neglecting the others.


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## uspresident1

MichaelJones said:


> 1776 we were and have always been the worlds doormat. We are a country founded and ran by immigrants. The statue of liberty, says bring me your poor your huddled masses.
> 
> Hard to change what we've always been.


O I am so sick of hearing "we were founded by immigrints". George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, etc etc, were not immigrants. They were British subjects who were born here. This LAND may have been discovered by an Italian but this COUNTRY was found by AMERICANS.

I remember someone on this board talking about the Statue of Liberty. I want to say it was Obie...the quote went something like this..."As far as I'm concerned the French can take that statue back." We have too many illegals here already. They refuse to learn the langauge and adapt. When my grandparents came here from Italy no one was writing billboards in Italian for them, no school gave "English as a second language" for them, the government employees didn't have Italian translators, and rightfully so. They busted their ass to work, support a family, and learn the language. That is not the case today. We have adapted to them instead of them adapting to us. Shame on people like you who can't see that or refuse to accept it.


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## Eagle13

MichaelJones said:


> Not really, just a business owner. Who can see the obvious failings of American culture when compared to more collective orientated countries such as Japan.
> 
> A better civilian population, that works together and is willing to sacrifice to help others.. Builds a strong country, and has been severely lacking in American values in recent years.


So move to Japan.

Edit:


kwflatbed said:


> If you don't like it here move the fuck to Japan.


Ooops Harry beat me to it!!


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> That message is clearly misinterpreted. Those who suck on America's teat are draining us of our independence. Too many people depend on someone else to be there to pick them up when they fall. It can't be that way. THAT is why this country in in shambles. And that moron president of ours isn't helping a damn thing.


Our country is in shambles because the people that fall stay their, and are given handouts that allow them to live, not healthy or make any attempt to better their lives.

We raise up the poor to middle class and we have a less violent, less drug addicted, ethical society. Oh we'll always have problems, but providing education and a way for the poor to break out only improves our country as a whole.

*Side-Note*
I don't plan on abandoning our country, but as a true American citizen try to improve it.

Lame to tell someone to move, because other countries are surpassing us..


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## niteowl1970

I..like most Americans came from immigrants. My family came to the United States from Italy in 1901. They registered and lived on Ellis Island for 2 months before they were allowed to go to New Jersey. They all worked hard and proudly became American citizens. They went through the hard times without the government giving them hand-outs. My families story isn't unique or special. Most of you have a similar story. They were proud to be in America and strived to be the best citizens they could be.

Too many immigrants today think U.S. citizenship is an entitlement instead of a privilege. Even more believe that becoming legal resident aliens is too much of a hassle so they sneak across the river in the middle of the night. Why would someone want to begin their life in America with a crime.

I grew up with a family of Cambodian immigrants in my neighborhood. They came to the United States in 1981. They applied for and were were given green cards and worked very hard while their applications for citizenship was being processed. My Mom used to help them learn English and they were eager to learn. They were not given special treatment and all 4 of the kids are college graduates and paid all their tuition out of pocket. They respected the law and the process and now they own 2 businesses in town and have flourished.

How can today's immigrants expect to flourish when many expect hand-outs at every turn ? How can they flourish when they are resistant to learn English because they want to "keep their culture."

New immigrants can make it in the United States, but they have to realize that they have go through a process. If you look at the immigration laws it's not hard at all to get a green card. You just have to be patient and unfortunately many don't want to be bothered.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> Typical super-liberal attitude. I'll say it again, stand up on your own two feet and do something for yourself! As Americans, we should be teaching peopl how to live independently!


I'm well past doing well.

I do for others. I agree we should be teaching people how to live independently, and the best way to do that is to end welfare and show our citizens a way to a high-paying job.


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## 263FPD

263FPD said:


> I find some issues with Mr. Jones' mentality. My family came here from Ukraine in 1979. I was 11. No one gave us anything. We somehow survived. We came here legally I might add.
> 
> The illegals coming to the US are a huge problem. Every one of them comes with their hand stretched out palm up,and guess what? Our government just keeps on giving. Why is it that my parents had to work for it, and these people need only ask?


Still waiting for your response to this earlier post. Tell me, why did no one give my family anything and yet we as many others that came here at the same time with NOTHING, were able to make a life here without public handouts. Look at the welfare system. There are generations of people sitting on public assistance perfectly happy with getting freebies. You and people like you want to give them more. You run your own business. How many illegals do you employ? Not that you would tell us because employing an illegal, is after all against the law.

You want us to pay for their education and their health care? I have two kids and one on the way. Who is going to pay for those things for them?
Oh Yes, that would be me and my wife. WTF should I have to pay for other people? Hey Michael, Go Fuck Yourself.


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## MetrowestPD

MichaelJones said:


> Our country is in shambles because the people that fall stay their, and are given handouts that allow them to live, not healthy or make any attempt to better their lives.
> 
> We raise up the poor to middle class and we have a less violent, less drug addicted, ethical society. Oh we'll always have problems, but providing education and a way for the poor to break out only improves our country as a whole.
> 
> *Side-Note*
> I don't plan on abandoning our country, but as a true American citizen try to improve it.
> 
> Lame to tell someone to move, because other countries are surpassing us..


Your argument is without merit: You suggest our country is failing because of handouts (on this we agree); however your solution is to educate immigrants. The solution to this is restrict welfare, have an enforcement division to properly monitor the new welfare, only allow legitimate people into the system i.e. injured persons, spouse died suddenly, etc... and make it a short term assistance and not a lifestyle.


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## MichaelJones

263FPD said:


> Still waiting for your response to this earlier post. Tell me, why did no one give my family anything and yet we as many others that came here at the same time with NOTHING, were able to make a life here without public handouts.


And people used to be able to get a job that pays well without going to college. I suggest all citizens be able to get affordable healthcare and education.



> Look at the welfare system.


 My exact reasoning for my ideas. Welfare has no benefit but keeping people living off the system.



> There are generations of people sitting on public assistance perfectly happy with getting freebies. You and people like you want to give them more.


 No I want to end welfare, save a lot of money and provide those citizens willing and able to better their lives have an opportunity that they may not have been afforded or be able to afford. Keep our work force healthy, and educated. Not dependent of the government to eat or buy their drugs.



> You run your own business. How many illegals do you employ? Not that you would tell us because employing an illegal, is after all against the law.


 This is a very distasteful thing to say. I don't hire people that aren't eligible.



> You want us to pay for their education and their health care? I have two kids and one on the way. Who is going to pay for those things for them?
> Oh Yes, that would be me and my wife. WTF should I have to pay for other people? Hey Michael, Go Fuck Yourself.


Your a wonderful parent, whose made it in the world and is willing to help your child on his/her way. I shall pay for my children as well. But what about those struggling parents, or those struggling children with shit for brains parents? We already pay for them, would you not rather have a system that provides education for our countrymen than a handout of money system that welfare is? With no obvious benefits?

Why do you have to be rude? Why can't we discuss without saying, go fuck yourself?


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## Pvt. Cowboy

My lord. I'm trying to punch your screen name from my desk... It's just not working. 

MJ... This isn't too difficult to figure out, yet for some reason you epically fail. We, the guys who bust their asses at work on a daily basis to be supporting and contributing members of society, DO NOT want illegal immigrants gaining a free education that is paid by our tax dollars. 

That's IT. SIMPLE CONCEPT. We are the people paying taxes, WE DETERMINE HOW IT GETS SPENT. If you were born in the USA, or if you are here LEGALLY, apply until your heart is content for federal grants and tuition assistance. If at any junction, you had to run from the U.S. Border Patrol, came over via banana boat/modified life raft, or gained entry in any shady/illegal manner... Do not ask for a damn thing. You're entitled to SHIT.

I'm so enraged that people can't figure out that this is one of the most socially inept programs available. Here's our fucktard of a leader, Obama, FLAT OUT LYING(thanks Rep. Joe Wilson, for calling the douchbaggery to the carpet) that illegals won't be included in his healthcare reform. They get welfare, SSI/SSDI(which AMAZES me because... Well... Don't you have to have a social security number to get that? I mean, it says it RIGHT in the damn name...)food stamps, WIC, and here we go now... Bitching that they can't get in-state tuition. 

If anyone gains anything from the money that gets ripped from our weekly paychecks and gets thrown into the G's pockets, it will be the contributing Americans who need the help. Not some retard illegal.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> Because apparently your head is thicker than the Earth's outer crust.


Still no excuse for behavior like that.

PVT. COWBOY I DON'T WANT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS BEING FUNDED EITHER! MAYBE YOU SHOULD READ WHAT I'M SAYING.


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## kwflatbed

MichaelJones said:


> Our country is in shambles because the people that fall stay their, and are given handouts that allow them to live, not healthy or make any attempt to better their lives.
> 
> We raise up the poor to middle class and we have a less violent, less drug addicted, ethical society. Oh we'll always have problems, but providing education and a way for the poor to break out only improves our country as a whole.
> 
> *Side-Note*
> I don't plan on abandoning our country, but as a true American citizen try to improve it.
> 
> Lame to tell someone to move, because other countries are surpassing us..


Why don't you go crawl back into bed with Patrick and Obama and continue your circle jerk.


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## niteowl1970

MichaelJones said:


> Still no excuse for behavior like that.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> Hey Michael, I worked fulltime overnights while putting MYSELF through college, as have countless others on this board. It's not easy by any means but I got it done. There is NO work ethic left in this country. Moral of the story, GET OFF YOUR ASS AND DO SOMETHING FOR YOURSELF!


My moral.. Not everyone was instilled with these values. Others physically or mentally can't. When the workforce for unskilled laborers with little education dwindles so does the fulltime jobs that can help you put yourself through college.

Just saying it's a natural reaction to our changing work environment. People at the bottom barely scrapping by can't afford school.


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## Pvt. Cowboy

MichaelJones said:


> The problem is, these immigrants are usually coming from poor countries. With little or no education, and even less funds. Which is why we help them get their start.. So they can in the end provide benefit for our country.


You're not saying that huh?? Typical back-peddling liberal.


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## 263FPD

MichaelJones;502141]And people used to be able to get a job that pays well without going to college. I suggest all citizens be able to get affordable healthcare and education.

My exact reasoning for my ideas. Welfare has no benefit but keeping people living off the system.

No I want to end welfare, save a lot of money and provide those citizens willing and able to better their lives have an opportunity that they may not have been afforded or be able to afford. Keep our work force healthy, and educated. Not dependent of the government to eat or buy their drugs.

_*This is a very distasteful thing to say. I don't hire people that aren't eligible.*_

Like I said earlier,you wouldn't tell us if you did.

Your a wonderful parent, whose made it in the world and is willing to help your child on his/her way. I shall pay for my children as well. But what about those struggling parents, or those struggling children with shit for brains parents? We already pay for them, would you not rather have a system that provides education for our countrymen than a handout of money system that welfare is? With no obvious benefits?

You don't have to tell me I am a good parent. You don't know me. You have an ability to pay for other's kids because earlier you said you were WELL BEYOND DOING WELL. Good for you. I have to struggle, because while the cost of living went up, our Governor is cutting the pay and incentives to the police. So, no, I do not want to pay for the Lazy. 

Why do you have to be rude? Why can't we discuss without saying, go fuck yourself?

Because the freeloaders are a huge pet peeve of mine but the people that try to champion for the freeloaders are even lower on the food chain. I love how the WELL OFF people the ones telling us,the working class who we should and should not pay for, and what laws are and are not good for us.


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## MichaelJones

LawMan3 said:


> Have you read everyone's posts on here? You really are thick headed. Allow me to spell it out for you:
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> APPLY FOR LOANS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Denied.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> APPLY FOR GRANTS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Denied
> 
> 
> 
> 
> GET A JOB!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> *Lets say... Work two already, pays rent on car, house(apartment), food, health insurance, car insurance, and with no children. Have about 5 dollars left at the end of the week, especially two 8$ an hour jobs.
> 
> Some people work their ass off and still can't afford college, either from past mistakes, or bills that don't allow them to spend money on an education.


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## niteowl1970

With all this backpeddling MJ must of graduated from


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## MetrowestPD

MichaelJones said:


> LawMan3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read everyone's posts on here? You really are thick headed. Allow me to spell it out for you:
> 
> *
> Denied.
> 
> Denied
> 
> Lets say... Work two already, pays rent on car, house(apartment), food, health insurance, car insurance, and with no children. Have about 5 dollars left at the end of the week, especially two 8$ an hour jobs.
> 
> Some people work their ass off and still can't afford college, either from past mistakes, or bills that don't allow them to spend money on an education.*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> They're denied because we will give it to them for free instead.*
Click to expand...


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## 263FPD

MichaelJones said:


> LawMan3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read everyone's posts on here? You really are thick headed. Allow me to spell it out for you:
> 
> *
> Denied.
> 
> Lets say... Work two (Details) already, pays car loan on car, house , food, health insurance, car insurance Have about 5 dollars left at the end of the week,
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> Yes Yes Yes Michael!!!! You do get the point. Above, Is My Life. So once again GFY!!!!!!*
Click to expand...


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## niteowl1970

I grew up in a middle-class family and both of my parents worked in a factory. They made decent money but our cup certainly DID NOT runneth over. When I graduated High School in 1989 I had applied and was accepted to Westfield State College. I remember asking my Dad how we were going to pay for it. He told me "not to worry about it" and I spent the next 4-years getting an education. At night I worked at Stop N Shop in Westfield saving money like crazy. It was not until years after I graduated that I found out that my Dad had taken a second job to pay for my education. He made that sacrifice for me and told me he didn't regret it one bit I'll never be able to repay him.

So there is another way to pay for college. It's called hard work.


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## Eagle13

MichaelJones said:


> Our country is in shambles because the people that fall stay their, and are given handouts that allow them to live, not healthy or make any attempt to better their lives.
> 
> We raise up the poor to middle class and we have a less violent, less drug addicted, ethical society. Oh we'll always have problems, but providing education and a way for the poor to break out only improves our country as a whole.
> 
> *Side-Note*
> I don't plan on abandoning our country, but as a true American citizen try to improve it.
> 
> Lame to tell someone to move, because other countries are surpassing us..


I am all for the opportunity to be there for everyone. But I am not for having to support others , especially when it impacts the quality of the life I am living. I don't need a guilt trip or be given reasons why it be a better world. It is ridiculous to think that our country aides countries around the world to help with their hunger issues and medical issues, but have a hard time caring for all those in need here. Then to top it off, there are always the people saying how the illegals need help to and need help now. It is insulting when a kid from a working family is having a hard time paying for school or doesn't go to school because the family can't afford it, but let's just pay for the illegals.

You want this country to be a better place? Let's start by focusing on the people that have been here for years and here legally. Start by helping those that pay taxes and obey the laws.


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## Big.G

MichaelJones said:


> Lets say... Work two already, pays rent on car, house(apartment), food, health insurance, car insurance, and with no children. Have about 5 dollars left at the end of the week, especially two 8$ an hour jobs.


Shit.... They're only paying you $8 an hour to glorify and lie about yourself?

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woG-J27-C2A"]YouTube- Mike Jones - Mr. Jones[/nomedia]

And you get an hourly rate to sling dope?


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## justacitizen

My father worked two jobs to pay the bills.My Mom had a brain tumor and was not able to work.My first job was a paper route,then a greenhouse then Market Basket........I always worked.I went to High school and held two jobs and graduated.I never felt overworked as my Dad taught us a great work ethic.THAT IS THE WAY IT SHOULD BE.


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## 263FPD

LawMan3 said:


> Nice. MJ finally STFU.


Blunt Break. Puff puff pass


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## grn3charlie

Michael correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't your position infer that if you are a US citizen (born or naturalized) you are sh!t out of luck solely based on your citizenship? You either have the resources or should already have the the resources? If you want to raise this country up, start with the local talent that are already here as citizens.



MichaelJones said:


> My moral.. Not everyone was instilled with these values. Others physically or mentally *won't*. When the workforce for unskilled laborers with little education dwindles so does the fulltime jobs that can help you put yourself through college.
> 
> Just saying it's a natural reaction to our changing work environment. People at the bottom barely scrapping by can't afford school.


*FIFY*



niteowl1970 said:


> I grew up in a middle-class family and both of my parents worked in a factory. They made decent money but our cup certainly DID NOT runneth over. When I graduated High School in 1989 I had applied and was accepted to Westfield State College. I remember asking my Dad how we were going to pay for it. He told me "not to worry about it" and I spent the next 4-years getting an education. At night I worked at Stop N Shop in Westfield saving money like crazy. *It was not until years after I graduated that I found out that my Dad had taken a second job to pay for my education. He made that sacrifice for me and told me he didn't regret it one bit I'll never be able to repay him.*
> 
> So there is another way to pay for college. It's called hard work.


Man enough to admit it, almost welled up on that one. THAT'S a DAD! Your Dad must know mine! Michael, please don't use the "well at least you have a Dad as a resource." Plenty of people without either or both parents made it. It all comes down to what are you willing to do for yourself. That's why immigrants used to tout how America is the land of opportunity. You can do whatever you want if you work hard at it.


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## EMTFORHIRE

We in a time when Americans are still getting laid off, when Americans are on the streets and strugling to pay for college, when hard working American familys are wondering if there going be laid off or keep there job tomorrow a job that they need to pay for there familys. and are American goverment is trying to pay for illegal imagrants to go to college in America what the hell!

What about the sons and daughters of families with a parent who was laid off why dont we offer free tuition to those families.


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## uspresident1

LawMan3 said:


> Should have been the message you received when you registered on MassCops.


Haha. BA-ZINGGGGGG. That one actually made me laugh out loud. :lol:


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## CJIS

I do not understand why people want to coddle illegal immigrants. What have they done for our country? They don't pay taxes. Many horde the money they make and send it back to the motherland. Not many I have encountered have even bothered to learn English or speak it.

Meanwhile citizens of this country that make many sacrifices and work hard to help their communities don't get very much if any reimbursement for doing so. These people work their ass off, spend their money here, speak the language and what do they get for doing it right? Uncle Sam every year rapes them on Taxes.


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## LGriffin

I don't agree with welfare in any form and I certainly don't agree with allowing anyone into this country who does not plan to work toward their own betterment AND that of this country.


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## Sam1974

*WE ARE* American Citizens. *WE* have been here our whole lives and *WE* have been paying taxes our whole LIVES.
If you come to this country,* BECOME* a citizen *THEN* apply for a college education *WHILE WORKING* and *PAYING* taxes LIKE an American Citizen does!

IF you are an illegal and come to this country looking to leech off the system and get everything handed to you, *GO FUCK YOURSELF* and Get the fuck out!!!!!!

That is the American WAY!


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## jettsixx

*When I dont see this site anymore then maybe I will listen to your bullshit *about how America should help other countries. Even then I still dont think we should, when the hell did America become the parent of the world? I really dont care if the country you came from was poor too bad, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. If you are run by a dictator then overthrow them. Our forefathers did it here they were a few colonies that took on England. When I was 21 I lost my father, I applied with a trucking company, got my license and worked 70 hours a week to make sure that my mom was taken care of. No one gave me a handout and I never asked for one. If I cant get something on my own then I dont need it. For the record, As far as I am concerned the only people that should get free health insurance or education are the veterans,(even then it wasnt free they earned it)

BTW Michael read my sig line and learn from it.


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## MichaelJones

MichaelJones said:


> We should be encouraging legal intelligent immigrants, not illegals.


Just for the people that missed my first post.. I never said we should be paying for illegal immigrants. You misunderstand and jumped to incorrect conclusions. This is on page 1.


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## Eagle13

MichaelJones said:


> Just for the people that missed my first post.. I never said we should be paying for illegal immigrants. You misunderstand and jumped to incorrect conclusions. This is on page 1.


The main focus of the story is on ILLEGAL immigrants. Thus the outrage.


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## kwflatbed

*MichaelJones why don't you have a cup of*










*and give us all a break and*










*your crap.*


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## Eagle13

Mikey,

I found some websites where you can share your not so unique views:
Liberal Forum is a hard core political forum & political chat room - "insurance for freedom"
LiberalOasis
http://www.aclu.org
http://www.aclum.org

Or go stir the pot here:
http://www.volconvo.com/
http://www.debatepolitics.com/
http://www.greatdebateforum.com/


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## GeepNutt

So basically Deval has cut the educational incentive for police officers who enforce the laws and risk their lives on a day to day basis.

And now he's going to offer a tuition break to who? Lawbreakers???

Makes sense to me, NOT!!! :letitall:


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## Guest

MichaelJones said:


> LawMan3 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Have you read everyone's posts on here? You really are thick headed. Allow me to spell it out for you:
> 
> *
> Denied.
> 
> Denied
> 
> Lets say... Work two already, pays rent on car, house(apartment), food, health insurance, car insurance, and with no children. Have about 5 dollars left at the end of the week, especially two 8$ an hour jobs.
> 
> Some people work their ass off and still can't afford college, either from past mistakes, or bills that don't allow them to spend money on an education.*
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> If they are AMERICAN citizens, I have no problem with modest, responsible government funding of education. Other than that they can go home.
> 
> btw Mike, you can chalk up 2 deportations to my homeboy in the city. Citizens 2, Leeches 0
> 
> 
> 
> EDIT: And if you really want to get down to brass tacks. There are over 100 of our brothers and sisters that got laid off from their jobs because we are supposedly in a 'crisis', yet we see the Government spending $$ on the most RIDICULOUS bullshit on a daily basis. I don't give a fuck about someone who isn't an American citizen at this point. I would rather $$ goes to an alcoholic homeless person on the street corner. If you think that sending ILLEGAL immigrants to college on our dime is the answer to bringing our country back from the edge, you are soooooo mistaken. It comes down to rekindling the American Spirit that rocketed this country to the top of the food chain in 200 years. Our Government spending is out of control, and it's people with your mentality that spending other peoples $$ is the answer to problems. Liberalism has NEVER been able to understand the human condition in my opinion. Whatever you subsidize, you will get more of. It's not complicated.*
Click to expand...


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## 263FPD

GeepNutt said:


> So basically Deval has cut the educational incentive for police officers who enforce the laws and risk their lives on a day to day basis.
> 
> And now he's going to offer a tuition break to who? Lawbreakers???
> 
> Makes sense to me, NOT!!! :letitall:


Well, if you were a liberal, cop hating POS, would you do anything at all for the cops?


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## sean37

couple of points michaeljones.

#1 we dont need to encourage legal intelligent immigrants, you know why....they get by just fine without whining and asking for handouts.

#2 you said that you are a business owner; do you provide healthcare to your employees? if not, what are you going to do when you are forced to cover your employees or face a fine?

i think your bogus and just trying to tick everyone off but i expect your response to be entertaining anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *MichaelJones*  
_We should be encouraging legal intelligent immigrants, not illegals._

Just for the people that missed my first post.. I never said we should be paying for illegal immigrants. You misunderstand and jumped to incorrect conclusions. This is on page 1.


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## REILEYDOG

Legal immigrant? Legal US citizen? Can't afford college? All branches of the US Military offer excellent educational benefits.


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## kwflatbed

From todays Globe:

*Tuition, driver's licenses urged for illegal immigrants*

By Maria Sacchetti

Globe Staff / November 17, 2009

Governor Deval Patrick today will unveil a state-commissioned report that urges him to push for driver's licenses and in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, as well as English classes for foreign-born Massachusetts residents who need them.

In-state tuition, driver's licenses urged for illegal immigrants - The Boston Globe


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## uspresident1

kwflatbed said:


> From todays Globe:
> 
> *Tuition, driver's licenses urged for illegal immigrants*
> 
> By Maria Sacchetti
> 
> Globe Staff / November 17, 2009
> 
> Governor Deval Patrick today will unveil a state-commissioned report that urges him to push for driver's licenses and in-state tuition for illegal immigrants, as well as English classes for foreign-born Massachusetts residents who need them.
> 
> In-state tuition, driver's licenses urged for illegal immigrants - The Boston Globe


Licenses? Tutions? English classes?........How many cops are on the lay off list again??

The term "Rock Bottom" will NEVER apply to this state. 23 years till I retire to Florida


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## sean37

time to start writing state reps again! we must be heard!


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## 263FPD

uspresident1 said:


> Licenses? Tutions? English classes?........How many cops are on the lay off list again??
> 
> The term "Rock Bottom" will NEVER apply to this state. *23 years till I retire* to Florida


You just sent a shiver down my spine. I have 12 years in, and about 21 years left.


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## uspresident1

263FPD said:


> You just sent a shiver down my spine. I have 12 years in, and about 21 years left.


I'll make the tee time in Fort Lauderdale and you bring the Grey Goose on the rocks. Save the date: December 27th 2032.


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## Boston Irish Lass

LGriffin said:


> I don't agree with welfare in any form and I certainly don't agree with allowing anyone into this country who does not plan to work toward their own betterment AND that of this country.


I agree and have no problem with a welfare system that provides *citizens* a hand UP, not a hand OUT. The system in place now provides no help to those just needing a temporary crutch to get them selves back on track.

This country was built on so many immigrants coming here that it amazes me how someone can look at history and not realize that the country is what it is today because they worked their arse's off.

They learned the language and they did without the extras. Most of them had little to no college education so they struggled at suck ass jobs to make sure their children could have a better life. They didn't drive fancy cars, wear expensive trendy clothing or take lavish vacations.

I think it's great that this is a country where people can come to and make a good life for their families. This should never be misconstrued as the right to a free ride. It is so very wrong that anyone should come here and get benefits of any kind in any way, shape or form.

We have veteran's on the streets with substandard medical care and there are still homes that don't have running water in them. There are hard working citizens struggling to make ends meet, keep food on the table and keep warm clothes on their kids.

I forget who posted it, but they were spot on. No need to worry about the intelligent immigrants - they already know how to become citizens, work hard and support their own families without taking a dime from the system. 

Bottom line, I didn't tell you to come here. I don't give a hoot if you have a place to live, health insurance, food to eat or a bed to lie your head on. If you're not a citizen you can go piss off a cliff or hop on a plane back to your "home land."

I personally have worked some of these ridiculously self esteem lowering jobs. I've emptied trash barrels, swept floors, scrubbed toilets, folded boxes, washed dishes et cetera. I put myself through college, own a home, 2 cars with no payments and will eventually be in a great position to retire with the mister.

So, in an outrageous display of emotion I will also add, and not apologize for, a big *go fuck yourself* MJ if you think I'm paying for an illegal immigrant's education. If you're so well off - YOU pay for it.
:up_yours:


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## uspresident1

Boston Irish Lass said:


> I agree and have no problem with a welfare system that provides *citizens* a hand UP, not a hand OUT. The system in place now provides no help to those just needing a temporary crutch to get them selves back on track.
> 
> This country was built on so many immigrants coming here that it amazes me how someone can look at history and not realize that the country is what it is today because they worked their arse's off.
> 
> They learned the language and they did without the extras. Most of them had little to no college education so they struggled at suck ass jobs to make sure their children could have a better life. They didn't drive fancy cars, wear expensive trendy clothing or take lavish vacations.
> 
> I think it's great that this is a country where people can come to and make a good life for their families. This should never be misconstrued as the right to a free ride. It is so very wrong that anyone should come here and get benefits of any kind in any way, shape or form.
> 
> We have veteran's on the streets with substandard medical care and there are still homes that don't have running water in them. There are hard working citizens struggling to make ends meet, keep food on the table and keep warm clothes on their kids.
> 
> I forget who posted it, but they were spot on. No need to worry about the intelligent immigrants - they already know how to become citizens, work hard and support their own families without taking a dime from the system.
> 
> Bottom line, I didn't tell you to come here. I don't give a hoot if you have a place to live, health insurance, food to eat or a bed to lie your head on. If you're not a citizen you can go piss off a cliff or hop on a plane back to your "home land."
> 
> I personally have worked some of these ridiculously self esteem lowering jobs. I've emptied trash barrels, swept floors, scrubbed toilets, folded boxes, washed dishes et cetera. I put myself through college, own a home, 2 cars with no payments and will eventually be in a great position to retire with the mister.
> 
> So, in an outrageous display of emotion I will also add, and not apologize for, a big *go fuck yourself* MJ if you think I'm paying for an illegal immigrant's education. If you're so well off - YOU pay for it.
> :up_yours:


+10000. CHECK-MATE. Amen.


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## sean37

governors email. Fill it up, can't hurt.

Contact us - Office of the Governor


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## OfficerObie59

A little late to the party...but....


MichaelJones said:


> I know, this is a typical American attitude. It's all about the me, and rarely about the collective.


Exactly as it should be.

There should be never be any shame in selfishness, as long as you don't outwardly steal or break laws in the process of exercising that trait. Selfishness and greed in the colloqiual sense are always panned as evil and detrimental to society by the left when they should be embraced as the motivation for a productive society. The human condition should be embraced, not looked upon with shame as it is with a mostly collectivist society. The bottom line is that a free market with some very minor regulation ensures that the most industrious parts of the human condition are allowed to thrive and those that are inherently detrimental are limited by those regulations.

When it comes to me and my family, I am unabashedly selfish. If I want to drive a big SUV and put my home's heat up to 75 degrees, I will. And as demand for those things rises, I will pay more as a result. That's the trade off.

Thats not to say I will not aid my fellow man out of the goodness of my heart, but that action of goodwill will not be forced upon me by my government. One should embarce the ego, because when the ego of the individual is given the ability to flourish via free enterprise and limited government intrusion, most of society benefits in the process.



> "Those who want slavery should have the grace to name it by its proper name. They must face the full meaning of that which they are advocating or condoning; the full, exact, specific meaning of collectivism, of its logical implications, of the principles upon which it is based, and of the ultimate consequences to which these principles will lead." - Ayn Rand, 1946


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## Robert35

*Take away the Quinn, but give out our Money to the* * illegals. Another great move by the Gov.*


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## uspresident1

OfficerObie59 said:


> A little late to the party...but....
> 
> Exactly as it should be.
> 
> There should be never be any shame in selfishness, as long as you don't outwardly steal or break laws in the process of exercising that trait. Selfishness and greed in the colloqiual sense are always panned as evil and detrimental to society by the left when they should be embraced as the motivation for a productive society. The human condition should be embraced, not looked upon with shame as it is with a mostly collectivist society. The bottom line is that a free market with some very minor regulation ensures that the most industrious parts of the human condition are allowed to thrive and those that are inherently detrimental are limited by those regulations.
> 
> When it comes to me and my family, I am unabashedly selfish. If I want to drive a big SUV and put my home's heat up to 75 degrees, I will. And as demand for those things rises, I will pay more as a result. That's the trade off.
> 
> Thats not to say I will not aid my fellow man out of the goodness of my heart, but that action of goodwill will not be forced upon me by my government. One should embarce the ego, because when the ego of the individual is given the ability to flourish via free enterprise and limited government intrusion, most of society benefits in the process.


Well said +1000


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## trueblue

I'm all for helping someone out. I may need it someday. The problem here is we as a society have redefined the word "temporary"........it now seems to mean "take as much as you want for as long as you want"


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## 8MORE

I forgot where I first heard this, A childhood friend's grandfather had a sign in his basement "Mancave"(Before there was such a term). "Each according to his deeds, Not his needs". If they would just keep this in mind up on Beacon Hill ,(D.C. as well), We would all be better off. (Rant is over, Thanks for listening.)


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## BscBandit09

wow, i just read this article,it makes me sick...so i get laid off and i ask financial aid to defer my loan and lower my interest rate since i have great credit, and they say no.(ill deal with it, get new job)... i go to college for four years for a degree which is no longer giving incentive to officer, (ill deal with that, ill earn more my own way)...
but what really tweaks my bell is while i know many good students who couldn't afford a college education and are working 40+ hr jobs to go to a communitty college and this shmuck gets a nice ride..wow, just..wow


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## CPT Chaos

Since when is out of country different from out of state?



REILEYDOG said:


> Legal immigrant? Legal US citizen? Can't afford college? All branches of the US Military offer excellent educational benefits.


Salem State for next to nothing! Twenty years in the National Guard retired!


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## OfficerObie59

Bsc, just for the record and not to take away from your completely valid point, but there is a bill on the table that would grandfather layoffs.

Not sure on the status; it's built into the sup budget.

http://www.masscops.com/forums/pay-...nn-bill-cut-other-pd-money-26.html#post492750


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## MichaelJones

Liberals don't hate cops, drink the kool aid?

Labeling and stereotyping nonsense doesn't help your cause of supporting law enforcement.


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## MichaelJones

Flame me all you want.. It really doesn't prove anything.


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## MichaelJones

So nothing of value.

I'm not liked oh no.. I better go tell the principal.


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## MichaelJones

No, thanks for the offer though. This is the last post I'm going to make in this topic unless someone has something to actually say.


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## sean37

michaeljones, 

go back to page 9 on this thread. i posted some questions for you and id like to know your stance.


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## MichaelJones

sean37 said:


> couple of points michaeljones.
> 
> #1 we dont need to encourage legal intelligent immigrants, you know why....they get by just fine without whining and asking for handouts.


 My point was to help all citizens of this US attain a higher education, as to not be left behind in the dust of the rest of the world.



> #2 you said that you are a business owner; do you provide healthcare to your employees? if not, what are you going to do when you are forced to cover your employees or face a fine?


 Already do, and benefits. I feel that along with a nice salary, health insurance, vacation and sick time make a lot of difference in keeping your full time employees loyal and hard working.


> i think your bogus and just trying to tick everyone off but i expect your response to be entertaining anyway.


I don't really want to tick anyone off, merely discuss.


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## BscBandit09

OfficerObie59 said:


> Bsc, just for the record and not to take away from your completely valid point, but there is a bill on the table that would grandfather layoffs.
> 
> Not sure on the status; it's built into the sup budget.
> 
> http://www.masscops.com/forums/pay-...nn-bill-cut-other-pd-money-26.html#post492750


did not know about the grandfathering, thank you for the info


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## niteowl1970

I was watching WWLP TV-22 with my liberal wife tonight and they had a news story about Gov." Patricked us into voting for him's." immigration legislation. They featured 2 hispanic women in the story who are legal immigrants

. One of them has been in the United States for 15 years and was unable to speak basic English to comment on the story. The other lady had been here for about the same time and spoke very good broken English and told the reporter that she thinks immigrants need to learn English so they can have a better life in America. I support people who want to come to the United States to make a better life. I will support them in learning English, going through the legal process of becoming a U.S. Citizen and understanding the laws of the Commonwealth.

I will not support folks that sneak over the border in the middle of the night and live a lie through false and forged documents (obviously not a crime in liberal circles). I will not support people that remain illiterate because they don't want to be bothered learning English. 

What Deval Patrick is doing is spitting in the face of any immigrant that came into the United States legally and worked hard to make a life for them self and become a citizen. I hope he's a one-term Governor for everyone's sake.


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## MetrowestPD

Ask almost every immigrant that came here legally what they think about illegal immigrants. They have a big problem with them, because with so many illegals they are limiting the amount of legal immigrants to come in (they are taking the places of legal immigrants); 

Michael Jones, you said back a few pages something to the effect that the US has always accepted immigrants and shouldn't stop now; however the immigrants that came here, came to be american citizens and learn the American culture. They did not come here and try to change the American culture as they do now, this is why there is the need for policy changes to limit legal immigration and enforce illegal immigration.


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## 7costanza

> i was watching wwlp tv-22 with my liberal EX wife tonight


fify NO


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## niteowl1970

7costanza said:


> fify NO


I love her anyway.. Besides she likes Family Guy.


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## 263FPD

MetrowestPD said:


> _*Ask almost every immigrant that came here legally what they think about illegal immigrants*_. They have a big problem with them, because with so many illegals they are limiting the amount of legal immigrants to come in (they are taking the places of legal immigrants);
> 
> Michael Jones, you said back a few pages something to the effect that the US has always accepted immigrants and shouldn't stop now; however the immigrants that came here, came to be american citizens and learn the American culture. They did not come here and try to change the American culture as they do now, this is why there is the need for policy changes to limit legal immigration and enforce illegal immigration.


Yeah, you can ask me, I'll tell you:letitall:


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## MichaelJones

MetrowestPD said:


> Michael Jones, you said back a few pages something to the effect that the US has always accepted immigrants and shouldn't stop now; however the immigrants that came here, came to be american citizens and learn the American culture. They did not come here and try to change the American culture as they do now, this is why there is the need for policy changes to limit legal immigration and enforce illegal immigration.


American culture is nothing but a combination of every culture around the world.. I agree on enforcing illegal immigration and obviously limiting immigration we don't have unlimited space.


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## EMTFORHIRE

Every time I read the thread title I vomit a little in my mouth. it just doesnt make sence to me the key word here is "illegal" I mean come on there F&^$ing illegal why should hard working Americans have to pay for them? kick them the hell out of here ill spend my tax money on that!!!


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