# Patrick says CORI reform needed now



## kwflatbed

*Patrick says CORI reform needed now*










BOSTON -- Governor Deval Patrick says now is the time to reform the state Criminal Offender Record Information system. 
Patrick says the effort could fail if the Legislature puts off action until next year. 
Critics say the "CORI" system prevents people from getting a second chance after they've served prison or probation terms, and even after being cleared of criminal charges. 
Employers can search CORI records to weed out job applicants. 
Patrick says a key unresolved issue is what limits should be placed on public and employer access to CORI records. 
The governor wants resolution this year. He says lawmakers will be unwilling to tackle the issue during an election cycle in 2008.

http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/BO65022/


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## CJIS

Patrick can kiss my royal A$$


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## jettsixx

Ditto!!!!


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## SOT

What exactly is the problem with searching CORI against proposed job applicants. I mean why would you want someone that is a criminal working for you? Heck if I couldn't use or search CORI, I'd be in a LOT of trouble with the ATF.
Yes my salesman has a record and can not possess firearms but I dodn't know because I couldn't run a CORI check....duh!


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## j809

I think there should be a reform. One of the officers at MCCPD that got charged criminally and then all charges were dismissed when the gun was found on the night shift officer, his BOP now shows that criminal charge and was told that it cannot be removed. Now he has to explain that for the rest of his life even though he did nothing wrong.


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## 7MPOC

j809 said:


> I think there should be a reform. One of the officers at MCCPD that got charged criminally and then all charges were dismissed when the gun was found on the night shift officer, his BOP now shows that criminal charge and was told that it cannot be removed. Now he has to explain that for the rest of his life even though he did nothing wrong.


I agree, there are situations where people have been bogusly charged and then it gets dumped in court, then they have to explain it forever. Think about those sticky situations when you had to arrest someone for a domestic even though you knew an assault probably didnt take place, it was a vindictive ex trying to get even but because he or she claimed fear, and/or an assault you had to make an arrest then it gets disproven in court and dismissed, then you always have a charge of assault on your record, not good for job applicants. Think about being in an interview and always have to say, Oh my boyfriend/girlfriend lied and it got dismissed. Wouldnt look to good.


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## BrickCop

Knowing Free 'em all Deval they aren't going after "bogus" charges with CORI "reform". You guys actually think its aimed at helping cops and other Joe Average Citizens who've been wrongly charged? LMAO...if that is truly the case I've got some primo swamp land to sell ya.

It's tailored to assist criminals by _hiding_ past criminal offenses from prospective employers. Sorry I don't want a junkie or gang banger with hidden BOP entries working in my children's school, or serving my family a meal or assisting my wife or mother with the groceries.


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## alphadog1

Here we go...this is all about the shitbags. Not cops or your average citizens.


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## Duff112

j809 said:


> I think there should be a reform. One of the officers at MCCPD that got charged criminally and then all charges were dismissed when the gun was found on the night shift officer, his BOP now shows that criminal charge and was told that it cannot be removed. Now he has to explain that for the rest of his life even though he did nothing wrong.


J-

I typically tend to agree with you on most issues, but that stops on this one....

Everyone can cite examples where someone may have been charged with scant evidence and the charges were subsequently thrown out, reduced, etc..

I know from experience (My family owns a large business and I often am called to interpret a BOP that has come in on a prospective employee) that
this happens. I might review a BOP that shows one 94c charge dating back 10 years and nothing else and tell my family that if the candidates qualified you should hire him/her.

I also know that I have reviewed BOP's that have come back 2-3 pages long and you know what my answer is there..

It's all about allowing the maximum amount of information. I want to know anything I can about an individual. This means checking references, credit checks, etc...

If your friend from MCCPD just has that one item on his record and can articulate the situation properly he should have no problem getting hired. If he gets turned down he probably didn't want to work there anyway...

All Free'em All Duval is doing is pandering to his base. Statistics show that
Blacks make up 26% of the prisoner population right now in the state.

Thats alot of votes, if you include family members relying on some form of paycheck when they get out.


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## kwflatbed

The New Bedford Standard Times Editorial

OUR VIEW: Tread lightly on CORI law

October 25, 2007

Proposed changes to the law that makes criminal records available to the public have garnered some big-name supporters in Boston, namely Mayor Thomas Menino and Gov. Deval Patrick. While the problems they see are real, making too many changes could upset the balance of civil rights in favor of criminals and against freedom of information.
Critics say CORI background checks, performed in accordance with the Criminal Offender Record Information Act, prevent ex-convicts from getting jobs or housing. And since CORI checks include not only convictions but arrests and charges, innocent people could be caught in the same trap. Those who are trying to get their lives back on track have no chance if they can't find work or decent housing. Denying them those opportunities only makes crime look like a viable career choice.
Each month, about 200 inmates are released from the Bristol County House of Correction in Dartmouth, returning to their communities to live among their law-abiding neighbors. No one would want to drive them back to a life of crime.
But here's the flip side: The public has a long-established right to know about a person's criminal record, and that knowledge often is the only thing standing between, say, a repeat abuser and a job working with children, elders or the disabled.
Several bills have been filed to reduce the information in CORI reports. One would drop all records except convictions and pending cases from the reports. It would also mandate the sealing of felony criminal records after seven years, misdemeanor records after three; current law seals them only by request, and after 15 years for a felony, 10 for a misdemeanor.
It would be easy to suggest that charges that do not lead to conviction should be left out of CORI reports, but consider this example: If a woman is charged with half a dozen drug crimes over a period of five years, but never convicted, should she be able to get a job in a high school? Unfortunately, acquittal and innocence are not the same thing.
In a court of law, a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty, but that standard cannot be used to block access to public records.
The Boston Globe reports that Mayor Menino supports splitting CORI information into two levels of accessibility - full access for law enforcement agencies and employers who serve vulnerable populations, and more limited information for others. If access is restricted, public safety could be compromised. Journalists who seek to bring critical information to the public could be hampered in their efforts.
As with many policy issues, the root of this debate is social and economic justice. The trouble is, it's hard to know where to draw the line between the rights of people with criminal records and the right to public information.
Any changes should be minor, and must be weighed very carefully. Lawmakers would be wise to investigate alternative methods of ensuring that CORI reports are not used to block a person's access to housing or to low-risk employment.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071025/OPINION/710250314


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## BrickCop

> It would also mandate the sealing of felony criminal records after seven years, misdemeanor records after three; current law seals them only by request, and after 15 years for a felony, 10 for a misdemeanor.


What did I tell ya'? They want to HIDE felonies after (7) years. Like most of you, I've seen BOPS with literally dozens and dozens of felonies so I guess for all intents and purposes they'll suddenly "evaporate" after the (7) years. 

What about this loophole: A gang banger is just released after serving a (7+) year stint at Cedar Junction- wouldn't this mandate that his BOP be HIDDEN from prospective employers?

This is a joke.


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## mastac

So does anyone know what one of the top reason for felons re-offending? Well I think it may be the fact that they cannot get a job? Why can't they get a job? Well because the CORI system is a mess. So they have no $$$, no home, and no food hmmmmm.... what is left to do? maybe reoffend, get caught go to the clink and get a bed and 3 squares. 

For Example:

I am outside a night club after it lets out,I go behind a dumpster so I am out of sight and get caught taking a leak. Well now that I was arrested, and charged with lewd behavior, and plead out because it cost too much to fight the charge. Oh yeah and I have to register as a sex offender..... Well now I just finished college, and guess what I can't get a job??? I just cannot figure it out, could it have anything to do with the fact that my CORI has a conviction for taking a leak outside a bar?

Come on guys, theres plenty of job security, kids r graduting high school every year, there will always be work! We all know everyone has thier favorites but lets use our heads and not be sooooooooo damn sterotypical!


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## Harley387

I have to agree that some type of CORI reform is needed. As I've said before, the justice system is about rehabilitation, as well as punishment. I'm not advocating letting every dirt bag seal his felonies after 7 years, but if a BOP entry shows dismissed, not guilty, or even a cwof, then for all legal purposes, the person is NOT gulity of the crime. Now, I'm as true blue as anybody, but it really bothers me that so many of my fellow Officers have the "Fuck Em" attitude. It's very easy to acclimate to the job, and to lose your faith in people, but consider that some people are genuinely good. Some people have either made a mistake, or had a run of bad luck, misfortune, etc. Don't those people deserve an opportunity to make a decent life for themselves? I don't feel that any conviction should be removed, or even sealed after a period of time. However, if a jury of peers feels that someone is not guilty, then erase the charge! This is the very essence of a trial by jury. I understand that some cases are only dismissed on a techicallity, or by some slimy defense attorney's ability to twist the facts of a case, but by allowing that dismissed case to remain on the record of an innocent person, your still punishing that person for life. We need a better system in order to allow the innocent to move on with their lives. Just my 2 cents.


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## Unit7

Harley387 said:


> I have to agree that some type of CORI reform is needed. As I've said before, the justice system is about rehabilitation, as well as punishment. I'm not advocating letting every dirt bag seal his felonies after 7 years, but if a BOP entry shows dismissed, not guilty, or even a cwof, then for all legal purposes, the person is NOT gulity of the crime. Now, I'm as true blue as anybody, but it really bothers me that so many of my fellow Officers have the "Fuck Em" attitude. It's very easy to acclimate to the job, and to lose your faith in people, but consider that some people are genuinely good. Some people have either made a mistake, or had a run of bad luck, misfortune, etc. Don't those people deserve an opportunity to make a decent life for themselves? I don't feel that any conviction should be removed, or even sealed after a period of time. However, if a jury of peers feels that someone is not guilty, then erase the charge! This is the very essence of a trial by jury. I understand that some cases are only dismissed on a techicallity, or by some slimy defense attorney's ability to twist the facts of a case, but by allowing that dismissed case to remain on the record of an innocent person, your still punishing that person for life. We need a better system in order to allow the innocent to move on with their lives. Just my 2 cents.


Ditto.


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## CJIS

Harley387 said:


> I have to agree that some type of CORI reform is needed. As I've said before, the justice system is about rehabilitation, as well as punishment. I'm not advocating letting every dirt bag seal his felonies after 7 years, but if a BOP entry shows dismissed, not guilty, or even a cwof, then for all legal purposes, the person is NOT gulity of the crime. Now, I'm as true blue as anybody, but it really bothers me that so many of my fellow Officers have the "Fuck Em" attitude. It's very easy to acclimate to the job, and to lose your faith in people, but consider that some people are genuinely good. Some people have either made a mistake, or had a run of bad luck, misfortune, etc. Don't those people deserve an opportunity to make a decent life for themselves? I don't feel that any conviction should be removed, or even sealed after a period of time. However, if a jury of peers feels that someone is not guilty, then erase the charge! This is the very essence of a trial by jury. I understand that some cases are only dismissed on a techicallity, or by some slimy defense attorney's ability to twist the facts of a case, but by allowing that dismissed case to remain on the record of an innocent person, your still punishing that person for life. We need a better system in order to allow the innocent to move on with their lives. Just my 2 cents.


Agreed


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## Duff112

mastac said:


> So does anyone know what one of the top reason for felons re-offending? Well I think it may be the fact that they cannot get a job? Why can't they get a job? Well because the CORI system is a mess. So they have no $$$, no home, and no food hmmmmm.... what is left to do? maybe reoffend, get caught go to the clink and get a bed and 3 squares.
> 
> For Example:
> 
> I am outside a night club after it lets out,I go behind a dumpster so I am out of sight and get caught taking a leak. Well now that I was arrested, and charged with lewd behavior, and plead out because it cost too much to fight the charge. Oh yeah and I have to register as a sex offender..... Well now I just finished college, and guess what I can't get a job??? I just cannot figure it out, could it have anything to do with the fact that my CORI has a conviction for taking a leak outside a bar?
> 
> Come on guys, theres plenty of job security, kids r graduting high school every year, there will always be work! We all know everyone has thier favorites but lets use our heads and not be sooooooooo damn sterotypical!


First of all "Newbie" you contradicted yourself from paragraph One to Three.

First you say the newly freed convict can't get a job because of a bad CORI,

Then you say "....there will always be work!"

Well which one is it?????

As I posted earlier CORI is all about having information. More information='s a better company and a protected client base, whether it be in a Nursing Home or in a child care center.

Everyone is not "Entitled" to a particuliar job...


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## Rock

mastac said:


> So does anyone know what one of the top reason for felons re-offending? Well I think it may be the fact that they cannot get a job? Why can't they get a job? Well because the CORI system is a mess. So they have no $$$, no home, and no food hmmmmm.... what is left to do? maybe reoffend, get caught go to the clink and get a bed and 3 squares.


I once had some libral views when I was in college but then I grew up and got a job in the real world. Ok, You ask what one of the top reasons for felons re-offending......answer - IT'S WHAT THEY DO! They are convicted felons for a reason. Most of them got break after break after break before some libral judge somewhere decided enough is enough and couldn't justify another CWOF.

You also say "Why can't they get a job? Well because the CORI system is a mess. So they have no $$$, no home, and no food hmmmmm.... what is left to do? maybe reoffend, get caught go to the clink and get a bed and 3 squares. "

So it's the CORI systems fault huh? Not the felon's fault for holding that knife to the clerks neck? Take some damn accountability! I have no pity for a convict. If they are truly sorry for what they did and are reformed then fine. Do what you have to do LEGALLY. If they have to jump through a few extra hoops to get that job, food or home then so be it. They did that to themselves...it's not the fault of the system that simply tells what they did.


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## BrickCop

mikemac64 said:


> I could care less what info private employers get so long as the don't limit my access to CORI.


Would you care if the private employer is your child's day care provider? Or the nursing home where your mother lives?


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## Duff112

BrickCop said:


> Would you care if the private employer is your child's day care provider? Or the nursing home where your mother lives?


Beat me to it, BC


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## SOT

You are an absolute tard.

The reason most re-offend is because they CHOOSE to or they are predisposed to.

What about the fact that they "offended" in the first place? Was that because of a lack of "jobs".



mastac said:


> So does anyone know what one of the top reason for felons re-offending? Well I think it may be the fact that they cannot get a job? Why can't they get a job? Well because the CORI system is a mess. So they have no $$$, no home, and no food hmmmmm.... what is left to do? maybe reoffend, get caught go to the clink and get a bed and 3 squares.
> 
> For Example:
> 
> I am outside a night club after it lets out,I go behind a dumpster so I am out of sight and get caught taking a leak. Well now that I was arrested, and charged with lewd behavior, and plead out because it cost too much to fight the charge. Oh yeah and I have to register as a sex offender..... Well now I just finished college, and guess what I can't get a job??? I just cannot figure it out, could it have anything to do with the fact that my CORI has a conviction for taking a leak outside a bar?
> 
> Come on guys, theres plenty of job security, kids r graduting high school every year, there will always be work! We all know everyone has thier favorites but lets use our heads and not be sooooooooo damn sterotypical!


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## mastac

Duff112 I mean work for you not the con.....


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## mastac

Well its nice to get some response from you guys. "Absolute Tard!" Thats classic. I wish I had the time to go through every law on the books, and find situation in which someone could have "possilby" been involved in, where they were at the wrong place at the wrong time. But I don't, it is just a generalization, that our system maybe the best one out there but is far from perfect. And AS EDUCATED LEO's I would only expect that most would see this. Granted the law needs work, and by no means is perfect, but how long did it take to wrinkle out the U.S. Constitution and Bill or Rights? Hey like Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along?" Thanks for the response guys.


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## mastac

And let me just add this:

We make "convicted felons" an untouchable class, locking them out of normal society and worthwhile employment, making continued crime all the more attractive. Instead of facilitating prisoner re-entry, we strain to make it difficult, and almost impossible for some.

Dr.Paul Fauteck, Psy.D, DABS <- for us lay folk, I guess it means Forensic Psychologist

Just thought I would share.........


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## BrickCop

mikemac64 said:


> Agreed. But these are special circumstances and are not necessarily the situations they are talking about.


That may be the case but with Deval's record I can't give him the benefit of the doubt.

To the pro CORI reform crowd- I am not against dismissals, CWOFs and/or Possession of Class 'D' and/or certain non violent misdemeanor convictions being kept from the Wal Mart Human Resources Department. OTOH I have a HUGE problem with the felony aspect of it. I'd like released offenders to become productive members of society but that has to be balanced with public safety.

Please correct me if I am wrong but I didn't see a distinction between violent and non violent felonies...from what I understand they'd *all* be swept under the rug from an inquiring employer after the magical (7) year anniversary.

I guess it boils down to perspective. Some picture a kid who can't get a job because of a shoplifting conviction. I envision Willie Horton Part II, a violent ex-con "just seeking a second chance" who eventually reverts back to his predatory ways on an unsuspecting female co worker.

Can we all agree that as cops, the CORI reform language is too vague to support as of today (even to those who agree to it in theory)?


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## 94c

mastac said:


> For Example:
> 
> I am outside a night club after it lets out,I go behind a dumpster so I am out of sight and get caught taking a leak. Well now that I was arrested, and charged with lewd behavior, and plead out because it cost too much to fight the charge. Oh yeah and I have to register as a sex offender..... Well now I just finished college, and guess what I can't get a job??? I just cannot figure it out, could it have anything to do with the fact that my CORI has a conviction for taking a leak outside a bar?


Don't be so dramatic. You will not have to register as a sex offender.
Pissing behind a dumpster out of sight is not a crime.


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## mastac

Again, just a generalization, simply trying to make a point. Again as was said in previous posts, there needs to be a balance. I in no way want rapists and murders working at chuck e cheese, but I think there def. needs to be a balance. What about all the guys who are on the job and get charged w/ crap, cause some little puke said he was assualted or whatever, some B.S. of the such. It gets dismissed but its still on his record? Is that right? What if something happens to him and he can be on the job anymore (car accident, etc. etc), for whatever reason, and has to change careers? Would this type of CORI info cause him/her issues? It may, right?


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## Guest

> kids r graduting high school every year


I submit this for winner of the 'Best Line Ever' Category.

I have 2 little kids in daycare, and want the school to have an all-access pass to someone's criminal history. If Deval really has a problem with it, than the solution should be some sort of Equal Opportunity Appeal Panel that someone can appeal their case to if they are denied a job based on a CORI. The answer is not covering up someone's past. I have an arrest from when I was a dumb teenager, but it never prevented me from working in the Human Service field for 8 years, and then moving into Law Enforcement. If you have half of a brain, and can show a clear distinction between your mistakes vs. who you are now... You should not have a problem.


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## BartA1

the CORI reform language it too vague for me. As someone pointed out con does 10 year sentence and gets out does that mean under the timeline guidelines proposed the employer cant see that far back? From the surface this CORI reform just appears to be more of the "I did it but I dont feel I should be responsible for it because of blah blah blah"


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## 94c

I would like to know how this would affect Federal and State sentencing for career criminals.

How about OUI's?


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## MPDReserve

94c said:


> Don't be so dramatic. You will not have to register as a sex offender.
> Pissing behind a dumpster out of sight is not a crime.


If someone sees you and is "offended", it is. Happened to a friend of mine and he had to register for pissing on the side building at the bar. He was out of sight until someone walked around and tapped the cop on detail there. I forget if they charged him with lewd and lascivious or indecent exposure. I am sure the cases of this are few and far between, but it is possible.


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## 94c

naturally there would be a difference between pissing on the side of a building and pissing behind a dumpster out of sight.

Your buddy was probably waving that thing around and spraying his initials on the building to get charged like that.

Someone would have to see his private area.

I seriously doubt he had to register for this. Even Open and Gross-Felony, I think has to be a second offense.


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## MPDReserve

Your probably right. I wasn't with him when it happened, but heard about it shortly after. Perhaps he left out a few details...


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## Harley387

Rock said:


> So it's the CORI systems fault huh? Not the felon's fault for holding that knife to the clerks neck? Take some damn accountability! I have no pity for a convict. If they are truly sorry for what they did and are reformed then fine. Do what you have to do LEGALLY. If they have to jump through a few extra hoops to get that job, food or home then so be it. They did that to themselves...it's not the fault of the system that simply tells what they did.


However, the system doesn't "Simply tell what they did". Instead, it tells what they were ACCUSED OF, whether they are guilty or not. Let's suppose you have a psychotic Ex, who accuses you of rape. How would you like to have THAT follow you around forever? Every time you apply for a job.....every time you apply for housing....and every cop who stops you can assume that your really just another shit bag who fell through the cracks. Now, let's suppose that you end up in a jam some day. Do you really want that previous charge being considered, or even KNOWN when your defending yourself in court? If your NOT GUILTY, expunge the charge.


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## 94c

I really hope some of you guys are not cops


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## Harley387

94c said:


> I really hope some of you guys are not cops


Are you reffering to me? Yeah. I'm a cop.


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## alphadog1

> 94cI really hope some of you guys are not cops


They must be generation Xer's. How else can you explain their attitude of reforming the CORI law.


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## 94c

Negative.

Some people have to realize that the governor is not doing any of this with law enforcement in mind.

Maybe some people are in support of this to clean their own BOPS?

If an applicant has a couple of drug arrests on his BOP, convictions or not, I'd question whether he belongs on this job or not.

Need something removed? Pick up the phone and call a politician who knows someone on the board in charge of expunging charges. He'll help clean up some of those old OUI's.

I can see it now...



Harley387 said:


> However, the system doesn't "Simply tell what they did". Instead, it tells what they were ACCUSED OF, whether they are guilty or not. Let's suppose you have a psychotic Ex, who accuses you of rape. How would you like to have THAT follow you around forever? Every time you apply for a job.....every time you apply for housing....and every cop who stops you can assume that your really just another shit bag who fell through the cracks. Now, let's suppose that you end up in a jam some day. Do you really want that previous charge being considered, or even KNOWN when your defending yourself in court? If your NOT GUILTY, expunge the charge.


So you wouldn't mind your child attending a day care where a worker had a child rape case dismissed?

Do you know how many child rape cases are dismissed because the family refuses to put the child through that again on the stand?

The hardest thing to do is get a conviction on a crime against a child absent overwhelming physical evidence. Even then, parents do not want to go through this especially if it involves a family member.

How about a male nurse charged with raping an elderly patient in a nursing home? Would you feel comfortable with him watching over a relative even though the case was dismissed?

How about if the victim died of old age before the trial?

A similar investigation in another town two years later and no one would know.


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## Harley387

94c....There's really no need to become childish and sling shit just because you fail to articulate your cause well enough to win us all over. Frankly, with your "guilty because they were accussed" attitude, I would question your ability to ever become a Police Officer. You obviously lack the the ability to remain neutral, and act accordingly. This, in case you didn't learn it in your CJ class, is a required ability for us Police Officers. However, this attitude generally serves those who get a job because of who they know, quite well. I would strongly suggest that you discuss this with a Police Officer on your next ride along.


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## SOT

mastac said:


> "Absolute Tard!" Thats classic.


You earned it!


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## 94c

Harley387 said:


> 94c....There's really no need to become childish and sling shit just because you fail to articulate your cause well enough to win us all over. Frankly, with your "guilty because they were accussed" attitude, I would question your ability to ever become a Police Officer. You obviously lack the the ability to remain neutral, and act accordingly. This, in case you didn't learn it in your CJ class, is a required ability for us Police Officers. However, this attitude generally serves those who get a job because of who they know, quite well. I would strongly suggest that you discuss this with a Police Officer on your next ride along.


It's obvious you can't even see the value of a BOP during investigations. Guilties or not.

I question anyone on this job looking to get BOP's cleaned up.

Must have something on yours you want to get rid of.

You must have a lot of time on your hands to be doing ride-a-longs. Where do I sign up?

You write like some liberal college professor who couldn't get on the job but claims to know all about it. What was so childish about what I wrote?

Didn't take long to find this one...
At least he pled guilty. Many are simply *dismissed*.

http://www.mvtimes.com/news/2007/10/25/larue_assault.php

David A. LaRue pled guilty in Edgartown District Court Friday to three charges of indecent assault on a six-year-old child.

Prosecutors told the court there is evidence that the assaults took place over a period of more than seven months, beginning in January 2007.

Mr. LaRue, 59, of Tisbury, was sentenced to a total of five years in jail. But in a plea agreement intended to spare the child and her mother further harm, Judge C. Brian McDonald, a Superior Court judge who presided over District Court for that day, suspended all but 30 days of the sentence.


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## mastac

94c said:


> It's obvious you can't even see the value of a BOP during investigations. Guilties or not.


Not digging on you here... Just curious do you mean for employers or police investigations? I dont think you will find anyone here who has a problem leaving BOP's the way they are for LEO's only?



SOT said:


> You earned it!


You know that mentally challenged people are considered by some to be the happiest people on earth!


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## Harley387

94c said:


> It's obvious you can't even see the value of a BOP during investigations. Guilties or not.
> 
> I question anyone on this job looking to get BOP's cleaned up.
> 
> Must have something on yours you want to get rid of.
> 
> You must have a lot of time on your hands to be doing ride-a-longs. Where do I sign up?
> 
> You write like some liberal college professor who couldn't get on the job but claims to know all about it. What was so childish about what I wrote?
> 
> Didn't take long to find this one...
> At least he pled guilty. Many are simply *dismissed*.
> 
> http://www.mvtimes.com/news/2007/10/25/larue_assault.php
> 
> David A. LaRue pled guilty in Edgartown District Court Friday to three charges of indecent assault on a six-year-old child.
> 
> Prosecutors told the court there is evidence that the assaults took place over a period of more than seven months, beginning in January 2007.
> 
> Mr. LaRue, 59, of Tisbury, was sentenced to a total of five years in jail. But in a plea agreement intended to spare the child and her mother further harm, Judge C. Brian McDonald, a Superior Court judge who presided over District Court for that day, suspended all but 30 days of the sentence.


*Mr. LaRue, 59, of Tisbury, was sentenced to a total of five years in jail. *

How exactly does this back up your statements? He was found guilty. He's serving time. It goes on his BOP. I have no problem with that. Had you taken the time to digest what I wrote, you would fully comprehend that I am not in favor of erasing CONVICTIONS from a BOP. However, I AM strongly in favor of erasing false accusations, ie; NOT GUILTY, etc.


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## 94c

mastac said:


> Not digging on you here... Just curious do you mean for employers or police investigations? I dont think you will find anyone here who has a problem leaving BOP's the way they are for LEO's only?


see above



Harley387 said:


> *Mr. LaRue, 59, of Tisbury, was sentenced to a total of five years in jail. *
> 
> How exactly does this back up your statements? He was found guilty. He's serving time. It goes on his BOP. I have no problem with that. Had you taken the time to digest what I wrote, you would fully comprehend that I am not in favor of erasing CONVICTIONS from a BOP. However, I AM strongly in favor of erasing false accusations, ie; NOT GUILTY, etc.


How is a NOT GUILTY a false accusation?

You've never had a jury come back with a NOT GUILTY that left you scratching your head?


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## Unit7

i guess its a good thing DISM is not a conviction then.


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## Harley387

94c said:


> see above
> 
> How is a NOT GUILTY a false accusation?
> 
> You've never had a jury come back with a NOT GUILTY that left you scratching your head?


I've also seen a few posts that leave me scratching my head. Namely, YOURS. NOT GUILTY means just that. NOT GUILTY. In THIS country, we have a justice system, however imperfect it may be. If a jury of one's peers finds that they are not guilty....then so be it. WTF part of the court system do you not understand?? Why even bother with a trial? Why not just give YOU a gun, and a list of names? Why do you think that YOUR perception should supercede the authority of a court, a Judge, and a jury? Have you any knowledge, or respect for constitutional rights whatsoever??? For God's sake bro, relax. Not everyone you meet is a child rapist.


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## kwflatbed

Harley387 said:


> I've also seen a few posts that leave me scratching my head. Namely, YOURS. NOT GUILTY means just that. NOT GUILTY. In THIS country, we have a justice system, however imperfect it may be. If a jury of one's peers finds that they are not guilty....then so be it. WTF part of the court system do you not understand?? Why even bother with a trial? Why not just give YOU a gun, and a list of names? Why do you think that YOUR perception should supercede the authority of a court, a Judge, and a jury? Have you any knowledge, or respect for constitutional rights whatsoever??? For God's sake bro, relax. Not everyone you meet is a child rapist.


Just like OJ was Not Guilty


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## alphadog1

> Harley387
> I've also seen a few posts that leave me scratching my head. Namely, YOURS. NOT GUILTY means just that. NOT GUILTY. In THIS country, we have a justice system, however imperfect it may be. If a jury of one's peers finds that they are not guilty....then so be it. WTF part of the court system do you not understand?? Why even bother with a trial? Why not just give YOU a gun, and a list of names? Why do you think that YOUR perception should supercede the authority of a court, a Judge, and a jury? Have you any knowledge, or respect for constitutional rights whatsoever??? For God's sake bro, relax. Not everyone you meet is a child rapist.


Just because a person is found NG, one should not assume that it was a false accusation. How many OUI arrests you made during your career was a NG? But, the person was absolutely guilty of OUI. The jury got it wrong because of all the roadblocks a police officer faces at trial trying to get a conviction. I must have falsely accused every person who got a NG during my career. If that was the case I would have been sued and fired a long time ago.


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## SOT

kwflatbed said:


> Just like OJ was Not Guilty


Nice one!


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## Harley387

This is the attitude that causes the public to hate cops. I don't know why you all became cops, but for me, it was a sense of being able to contribute something. More than that, it was the thought that I could somehow help people, perhaps even make someone's life better. It seems that there is a serious social gap between Police and Public. Do you guys really spend every day of your lives hating, fearing, and being suspicious of everyone around you? If so, then I think we all need to seriously rethink our game plan. I shudder to think that my kids must someday deal with a Police Officer who would love nothing more than to lock them up for littering. I'm not attempting to start a flaming war here, but seriously folks....do constitutional rights have any weight any more? Has everyone become so paranoid that we have to convict people based upon accusations and suspicion? Is anyone even capable of forgiveness anymore? I am not advocating the mass pardoning of serial rapists and axe murderers. I am suggesting that if a person is found not guilty, then let it be so. I am actually appalled to know that so many Officers seem to share this seeming lack of regard for human dignity and integrity.


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## SOT

I guess the difference is for some of you cops is knowing that not guilty means maybe just plain lucky...as well as sometimes guilty means railroaded.

The point to all of this is that if you let people have all the information they can have, it will be easier for them to make an INFORMED decision. Hiding information, deleting information, keeping it out of the public eye, is not really in the best interests of anyone.

Lastly we must all know that this is really an "end run" around what Patrick considers to be the unjust legal system that imprisons more minority males (read:African Americans). This is not about what's "right", this move is entirely about pandering to the African American constituent base.

From the perspective of an employer, if I plan on hiring someone, I am going to do a full background on them. That includes CORI, multi-state, credit, school, etc. In my industry and due to MA and Federal Laws, there are certain people that CAN NOT be hired by me. If they now start hiding information that may be critical to my staying legal as an employer, where does that put me?
Up the fucking creek, right?
By hiding things and letting things "expire" is diminishes what may be a pattern of behavior. Where I might now make a judgment call on a guy who got a 209A due to a vindictive wife during a divorce, now I won't make that call. Anyone with anything on their record will be immediately disqualified because I will not be comfortable that this isn't one in a long list of things that may be now "hidden" from view.

Give the people information, let them make the most informed decisions.


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## 94c

Harley387 said:


> This is the attitude that causes the public to hate cops. I don't know why you all became cops, but for me, it was a sense of being able to contribute something. More than that, it was the thought that I could somehow help people, perhaps even make someone's life better. It seems that there is a serious social gap between Police and Public. Do you guys really spend every day of your lives hating, fearing, and being suspicious of everyone around you? If so, then I think we all need to seriously rethink our game plan. I shudder to think that my kids must someday deal with a Police Officer who would love nothing more than to lock them up for littering. I'm not attempting to start a flaming war here, but seriously folks....do constitutional rights have any weight any more? Has everyone become so paranoid that we have to convict people based upon accusations and suspicion? Is anyone even capable of forgiveness anymore? I am not advocating the mass pardoning of serial rapists and axe murderers. I am suggesting that if a person is found not guilty, then let it be so. I am actually appalled to know that so many Officers seem to share this seeming lack of regard for human dignity and integrity.


I'm dying to find out what's on your BOP you need to get rid of.

I used your same speech above for my interview 20 years ago. I then threw it away.


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## Harley387

94c said:


> I'm dying to find out what's on your BOP you need to get rid of.
> 
> I used your same speech above for my interview 20 years ago. I then threw it away.


....all of that, and a handfull of lint is all he could pull out of that tiny cranial cavity.


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## 94c

what lint?


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## Macop

Hey Chuck, don't waste your time.


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## alphadog1

Ask the Governor for a pardon. Keep CORI as is.


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## Guest

Harley387 said:


> Has everyone become so paranoid that we have to convict people based upon accusations and suspicion? Is anyone even capable of forgiveness anymore? I am not advocating the mass pardoning of serial rapists and axe murderers. I am suggesting that if a person is found not guilty, then let it be so. I am actually appalled to know that so many Officers seem to share this seeming lack of regard for human dignity and integrity.


Harley387, Let us say there is a guy w/ 3 A&B PO, 4 poss of class "something", several A&Bs, a 209A, etc, all in different court districts and, of course, all CWOF/Dismissed w/ court costs. Is there a grand conspiracy by unrelated people trying to ruin his life? Maybe, he has a propensity towards violence and other criminal acts. Unfortunately, the court system coddles criminals. The CORI/BOP history is all there is to go one. I would more likely support CORI changes if judges actually punished the bottom dwellers. Also, less esquires in the General Assembly would help.


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## Duff112

SOT said:


> I guess the difference is for some of you cops is knowing that not guilty means maybe just plain lucky...as well as sometimes guilty means railroaded.
> 
> The point to all of this is that if you let people have all the information they can have, it will be easier for them to make an INFORMED decision. Hiding information, deleting information, keeping it out of the public eye, is not really in the best interests of anyone.
> 
> Lastly we must all know that this is really an "end run" around what Patrick considers to be the unjust legal system that imprisons more minority males (read:African Americans). This is not about what's "right", this move is entirely about pandering to the African American constituent base.
> 
> From the perspective of an employer, if I plan on hiring someone, I am going to do a full background on them. That includes CORI, multi-state, credit, school, etc. In my industry and due to MA and Federal Laws, there are certain people that CAN NOT be hired by me. If they now start hiding information that may be critical to my staying legal as an employer, where does that put me?
> Up the fucking creek, right?
> By hiding things and letting things "expire" is diminishes what may be a pattern of behavior. Where I might now make a judgment call on a guy who got a 209A due to a vindictive wife during a divorce, now I won't make that call. Anyone with anything on their record will be immediately disqualified because I will not be comfortable that this isn't one in a long list of things that may be now "hidden" from view.
> 
> Give the people information, let them make the most informed decisions.


 SOT- Very well said. I'm impressed.


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## SinePari

Harley387 said:


> *This is the attitude that causes the public to hate cops*. I don't know why you all became cops, but for me, it was a sense of being able to contribute something. More than that, it was the thought that I could somehow help people, perhaps even make someone's life better. It seems that there is a serious social gap between Police and Public. Do you guys really spend every day of your lives hating, fearing, and being suspicious of everyone around you? If so, then I think we all need to seriously rethink our game plan. I shudder to think that my kids must someday deal with a Police Officer who would love nothing more than to lock them up for littering. I'm not attempting to start a flaming war here, but seriously folks....do constitutional rights have any weight any more? Has everyone become so paranoid that we have to convict people based upon accusations and suspicion? *Is anyone even capable of forgiveness anymore?* I am not advocating the mass pardoning of serial rapists and axe murderers. I am suggesting that if a person is found not guilty, then let it be so. I am actually appalled to know that so many Officers seem to share this seeming lack of regard for human dignity and integrity.


This is what causes POs to hate everyone else  . Not owning up to, and taking responsiblity for your mistakes. Always looking for excuses, handouts, shortcuts, instead of just realizing your mistakes and move on.


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## 94c

Macop said:


> Hey Chuck, don't waste your time.


For once I agree with this guy. Don't waste your time Chuck. Your BOP isn't going away any time soon.


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## BrickCop

SinePari said:


> This is what causes POs to hate everyone else  . Not owning up to, and taking responsiblity for your mistakes. Always looking for excuses, handouts, shortcuts, instead of just realizing your mistakes and move on.


Well said Sine... +1.

Harley-

No one is against the public or the concept of forgiveness. However in regard to CORI reform, the burden of proving that one is rehabilitated should not fall on the uninformed employer. I just don't think hiding violent felonies after (7) years is the wisest move in ensuring public safety. Would you want a loved one working alongside a "former" violent offender?


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## Harley387

94c said:


> For once I agree with this guy. Don't waste your time Chuck. Your BOP isn't going away any time soon.


Why do you have to keep on with the insults and personal attacks? Stop acting like every other anonymous internet Pussy, and try to have a civil conversation. Now, go back to waxing your crotch and pulling the wings off of house flies.


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## 94c

Harley387 said:


> 94c....There's really no need to become childish and sling shit just because you fail to articulate your cause well enough to win us all over. Frankly, with your "guilty because they were accussed" attitude, I would question your ability to ever become a Police Officer. You obviously lack the the ability to remain neutral, and act accordingly. This, in case you didn't learn it in your CJ class, is a required ability for us Police Officers. However, this attitude generally serves those who get a job because of who they know, quite well. I would strongly suggest that you discuss this with a Police Officer on your next ride along.


yes sireee



Harley387 said:


> Why do you have to keep on with the insults and personal attacks? Stop acting like every other anonymous internet Pussy, and try to have a civil conversation. Now, go back to waxing your crotch and pulling the wings off of house flies.


stop talking to the mirror.


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## Duff112

:l: :l:


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