# Where does the time spend in LTC application?



## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

As I learned that MIRCS is fully computerized -- it is hard for me to believe that it could take more than 30 minutes for a computer to search all relevant records for the firearm licensing purpose. 

The town PD told me that it might take between 1 to 3 months to issue a LTC. Where does the time spend?


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## spd722 (Aug 6, 2004)

It is spent with the state running your fingerprints.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

State Police Fingerprint checking.


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## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

I did fingerprint twice. The first one was done on a paper card (all fingers). The second one was pretty hi-tech, done via a fingerprint reader/scanner type of device connecting to a PC (index finger of right hand only).

I guess the print that needs a few week to check must be that low-tech paper one.


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## HELPMe (Dec 17, 2004)

Mine took me exaclty 4 weeks to get. I got a LTC large capacity all lawfull. I had to do the stupid NRA course. But your right first its ink on a card then they scan your finger print of your index finger and they use that for your LTC now i think so that everytime you go to buy a fire arm you have to use your finger print.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Nonot at all. Not all dealers have the automated system and half the time it doesn't work anyway...
You should have gotten a pin number if the fingerprint system fails...and in a lot of cases, dealers are not set up for automated anyway...so it's good old FA-10 paper form.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

It's always that way the first time you get the license, you get a full set of fingerprints. After that you are "in the system" so it's a single print for the cards.



pcbme said:


> I did fingerprint twice. The first one was done on a paper card (all fingers). The second one was pretty hi-tech, done via a fingerprint reader/scanner type of device connecting to a PC (index finger of right hand only).
> 
> I guess the print that needs a few week to check must be that low-tech paper one.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

pcbme said:


> As I learned that MIRCS is fully computerized -- it is hard for me to believe that it could take more than 30 minutes for a computer to search all relevant records for the firearm licensing purpose.
> 
> The town PD told me that it might take between 1 to 3 months to issue a LTC. Where does the time spend?


What's the rush...although you may be a good guy, let the appropriate screenings take place so the bad guys don't get the license. A major reason why security really sucks in the U.S. is that the average citizen is sooooo damn impatient. Policies are set not to inconvenience them. You are not requesting a library card...you are requesting a license to carry a firearm, which is an AWESOME responsibility. Allow the authorities the appropriate amount of time to ensure your safety as well as the rest of the general public.


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## Curious EMT (Apr 1, 2004)

Dept of Mental Health was the big backup for a while. Things have improved slightly there. I waited 72 days for mine a year ago....


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Come on now, do you think the background checks in MA will stop a criminal from carrying a gun? 
These "polices" aren't "protecting" the general public...because the guys that are going to commit a crime with a gun aren't following the application process.

Just look at the brilliance of the Pittsfield process...very few if any people get ALP, and how much gun crime is there? (LOTS)....Are the people that are committing the gun crimes licensed? No. Is the gun crime related to illegal drugs? Yes. But oddly the law abiding citizens who take the classes, go through the paperwork process (PS Pittsfield's application is like 20 pages long...not your normal 4 pager), pay the $100 and wait to get a restricted license...are being "protected how/'

Short version...if in MA we have to go through the process...the answer should be, you pass the BC, you SHALL be issued an unrestricted license...that would be the "most fair" for a BS process.



chief801 said:


> What's the rush...although you may be a good guy, let the appropriate screenings take place so the bad guys don't get the license. A major reason why security really sucks in the U.S. is that the average citizen is sooooo damn impatient. Policies are set not to inconvenience them. You are not requesting a library card...you are requesting a license to carry a firearm, which is an AWESOME responsibility. Allow the authorities the appropriate amount of time to ensure your safety as well as the rest of the general public.


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## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

alright - I'm definitely a good citizen and I buy the concept of stricter checking making the public safer. I just hope the authority could improve the technology to make the checkings running faster.



chief801 said:


> What's the rush...although you may be a good guy, let the appropriate screenings take place so the bad guys don't get the license. A major reason why security really sucks in the U.S. is that the average citizen is sooooo damn impatient. Policies are set not to inconvenience them. You are not requesting a library card...you are requesting a license to carry a firearm, which is an AWESOME responsibility. Allow the authorities the appropriate amount of time to ensure your safety as well as the rest of the general public.


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## chief801 (Dec 8, 2004)

SOT_II said:


> Come on now, do you think the background checks in MA will stop a criminal from carrying a gun?
> These "polices" aren't "protecting" the general public...because the guys that are going to commit a crime with a gun aren't following the application process.
> 
> Just look at the brilliance of the Pittsfield process...very few if any people get ALP, and how much gun crime is there? (LOTS)....Are the people that are committing the gun crimes licensed? No. Is the gun crime related to illegal drugs? Yes. But oddly the law abiding citizens who take the classes, go through the paperwork process (PS Pittsfield's application is like 20 pages long...not your normal 4 pager), pay the $100 and wait to get a restricted license...are being "protected how/'
> ...


You are taking the example to the extreme. I realize hard core criminals aren't applying for licenses. But there are still people whose backgrounds show a history of poor judgement or minor criminal infractions that would lead a reasonable person to not want that individual to carry a weapon. Those are the one's we are screening for.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

No you are "screening" all people, not just those that have committed minor infractions of the law. You are putting the burden of licensure on all people, not just those that might not be desirable.So what happens when one does meet the requirements of the background check, one can still be denied the ability to carry concealed...to what end? To protect them from whom?

Why not test everyone's DNA for the good of the people? Why not incarcerate all the good people for their own protection and let the criminals run free unencumbered by restriction and licensure.

Short version, In MA most gun crimes in are committed by people with no license and during another illegal act. That is the majority not the minority...that is the average not the extreme. A reasonable person would expect to be able to protect themselves without undue interference from the Gov't.



chief801 said:


> You are taking the example to the extreme. I realize hard core criminals aren't applying for licenses. But there are still people whose backgrounds show a history of poor judgement or minor criminal infractions that would lead a reasonable person to not want that individual to carry a weapon. Those are the one's we are screening for.


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## Curious EMT (Apr 1, 2004)

pcbme said:


> alright - I buy the concept of stricter checking making the public safer.


I've got a few other things you can buy too.....


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## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

What's that?



Curious EMT said:


> I've got a few other things you can buy too.....


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## dave7336 (Mar 25, 2006)

SOT_II said:


> No you are "screening" all people, not just those that have committed minor infractions of the law. You are putting the burden of licensure on all people, not just those that might not be desirable.So what happens when one does meet the requirements of the background check, one can still be denied the ability to carry concealed...to what end? To protect them from whom?
> 
> Why not test everyone's DNA for the good of the people? Why not incarcerate all the good people for their own protection and let the criminals run free unencumbered by restriction and licensure.
> 
> Short version, In MA most gun crimes in are committed by people with no license and during another illegal act. That is the majority not the minority...that is the average not the extreme. A reasonable person would expect to be able to protect themselves without undue interference from the Gov't.


In MA, there is an appeals process if you are denied a LTC...not saying you will win the appeal, but you do have that right.


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## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

This is more or less like taking road test for a driver license. Will you appeal if you failed? I won't waste time.



dave7336 said:


> In MA, there is an appeals process if you are denied a LTC...not saying you will win the appeal, but you do have that right.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

The "appeals" process in MA is a joke. It only addresses a small portion of the actual problem and MANY of the disqualifires are not covered.

End all is MA sucks for legal firearms ownership, and somehow more and more gun crimes are commited. Now MA blames NH, VT, ME etc for all the gun crime.

What is even more interesting, the AG in MA is doing NOTHING to actually crack down on "dealers" in MA that don't have state licenses and still have FFL's and sell guns.
Wanna fix some of the gun problems in MA. Get a list of all dealer FFL holders in MA from the ATF, then compare that list to the list of state issued gun sales licenses....the difference of those that have an FFL and don't have a state license = a crime.
Then compare the list of FFL's address on file with home addresses where the two meet = crime.

But back to the point, all the checking and all the paperwork and all the appeals mean nothing because the CRIMINAL does not participate in the process. Even if a criminal was denied a permit, do you think that's going to stop them from getting a gun?



dave7336 said:


> In MA, there is an appeals process if you are denied a LTC...not saying you will win the appeal, but you do have that right.


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## MA218 (Sep 30, 2005)

> But back to the point, all the checking and all the paperwork and all the appeals mean nothing because the CRIMINAL does not participate in the process. Even if a criminal was denied a permit, do you think that's going to stop them from getting a gun?


Very well said


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