# Holy shi$



## Treehouse413 (Mar 7, 2016)




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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

I don't know what to say on this one. I truly wonder what was going through this officer's mind to allow himself being taken hostage like this. I hope the officer is ok and is able to get through this, both physically and mentally.

On another note, this is another classic case for a beanbag shotgun or better yet, a 40mm from the beginning; along with a designated cover officer of course. (Not a Taser in this case.)


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Tried watching the video but it it was taken down off YouTube by the person that posted it. If you get a new link can you repost it? Thanks


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Let's see if this will work


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## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)




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## MPD703 (Sep 25, 2004)

I am surprised that the first round was fired over 2 minutes in. They backed up a long way. I think the officer who was involved in the struggle was trying to go hands on. After the suspect was shot you can see the knife on the ground before the suspect gets up and goes after the officer. This guy wanted to die and went from a knife attack to a gun grab to make it happen. Glad the good guys are ok.


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

Is this the South Bend shooting that Buttplug called in the DOJ to investigate before issuing an Obamaesque "Police acted stupidly" statement to press?


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## MPD703 (Sep 25, 2004)

This was out of Athens, GA. Here is a brief blurb:
On Monday, July 1, 2019, at approximately 12:45 PM, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation was requested by the Athens Clarke County Police Department (ACCPD) to investigate an officer involved shooting. Preliminary information indicates that 2 ACCPD officers responded to a scene after receiving a 911 call about a male, later identified as Aaron Hong, age 23, causing a disturbance with a butcher knife at the River Club Apartments on Macon Highway, Athens, GA. Hong was using the knife in an aggressive manner and appeared to be injured himself. When police made contact, Hong immediately confronted them and began to walk towards officers with the knife in hand. 

During the incident, officers provided numerous verbal commands for Hong to drop the knife. Instead, Hong charged one of the officers with the knife and the officer fired his weapon multiple times, striking Hong. Hong managed to get back up and during the confrontation attempted to grab one of the officer’s weapons. The second officer fired at Hong multiple times, striking him. Nearby medics responded and Hong died at the scene. One officer sustained minor injuries and was treated on scene.


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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

Tough situation. They’re obviously trying to exercise extreme restraint by distancing themselves from him for what ends up being a pretty long, tense period. 

But then once he fires, it looks kinda like the officer becomes complacent and allows the suspect to get a hold of him which could’ve been fatal. 

Why wasn’t taser considered earlier? One with taser, one with lethal. Give multiple verbal commands and then zap his ass. Especially since he isn’t wearing heavy clothing.


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

The sad truth is they took too long to deploy the taser. I don't like criticizing other officers but from the video, they should have communicated better. If they deployed the taser, they could have subdued him long before it turned into a near beheading.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

Why are you using a taser against an armed suspect who is non compliant?


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## patrol22 (Oct 31, 2015)

CCCSD said:


> Why are you using a taser against an armed suspect who is non compliant?


There were multiple officers there. One could've deployed his Taser while the other covered with lethal. That way they could try to subdue him but if things went south they would still have the option to shoot. Only works with multiple officers obviously


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

This is NOT a Taser situation, this is a beanbag shotgun or a 40mm situation. The Taser wires only go out 25 feet max; that's too close for a guy who is hellbent on attacking you with an edged weapon. The beanbag shotgun is good to at least 45 feet. The 40mm is good to at least 110 feet and is an excellent weapon, although not perfect. 

They knew before they arrived this guy was armed with a knife. If they had either of the above mentioned less-lethal weapons, one officer should have immediately deployed with that weapon while the other became the designated cover officer with a lethal weapon This is the immediate benefit of having two officers on-scene at the same time.


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## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Just how close does one have to be to use a taser effectively? Fuck the taser. Unless you could sneak up on him from behind, it's not an option.

These guys showed ENOURMOUS amount of restraint and I applaud them. It probably shouldn't have gotten as far as it did (the highway?) but there is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL anyone can question their actions after all that.

And sadly, not every department has those non-lethal weapons. Because a handful of people have died due to non-lethal weapons (ironic, ain't it?) some places are just very squeamish about them. It's absurd, but we're taking people 'in charge' who have never EVER confronted ANYONE who could be a danger. They're clueless and we've all seen evidence of that in real life and through stories on this site.

Mr. Hong wanted to die. Mr. Hong died. Community Policing in it's most tragic form (well, any of the cops being hurt would be the MOST tragic). Case Closed.


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## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

patrol22 said:


> There were multiple officers there. One could've deployed his Taser while the other covered with lethal. That way they could try to subdue him but if things went south they would still have the option to shoot. Only works with multiple officers obviously


Tasers are a dangerous crutch. More failures than not. It's a worthless toy that got sold so people can say how humane they are. Cops are injured and killed relying on crap like that.


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## AB7 (Feb 12, 2019)

I lean towards the initial encounter utilizing a taser for multiple reasons. The first being optics. How does this look to the general public? Most cops see their careers end in the court of public opinion nowadays. I am in no way suggesting that both officers use tasers. I am suggesting that one of them could’ve drew the taser first. And fired it a lot sooner after the subject’s refusal to follow verbal commands, without worrying about ending their life with all the associated consequences. 

If the taser failed to end the situation, then so be it. The officer can take a few steps back, draw their firearm and squeeze off two rounds. How many officers are trained to do this? I’m willing to be anyone here has. And you also have the support officer who is able to unleash multiple rounds as well in between the taser deployment and any follow-up action. 

I just feel like the cops in this had no plan. We respond to the call, we draw our firearms, and then what? Demand he put down the knife while we endlessly back up until he charges?


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Fire truck was staged... should have charged a line and blasted him


Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Suspect clearly insane.

Gets shot , pops back up, takes hostage !

Good thing they had body cams.


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## Danusmc0321 (May 21, 2012)

LA Copper said:


> This is NOT a Taser situation, this is a beanbag shotgun or a 40mm situation. The Taser wires only go out 25 feet max; that's too close for a guy who is hellbent on attacking you with an edged weapon. The beanbag shotgun is good to at least 45 feet. The 40mm is good to at least 110 feet and is an excellent weapon, although not perfect.
> 
> They knew before they arrived this guy was armed with a knife. If they had either of the above mentioned less-lethal weapons, one officer should have immediately deployed with that weapon while the other became the designated cover officer with a lethal weapon This is the immediate benefit of having two officers on-scene at the same time.


Now monday morning here, but If 5 shots didn't stop him from getting up, beanbag wouldn't have done anything. Tasers atleast, when working with good contact provide the involuntary muscle lockup. Cops do rely on them too heavily. The "crazed" individual that ends in lethal force, I have only seen (video) of tasers working a small percentage of times. I've never seen a beanbag shotgun incapacitate a person when deadly force was an option. But I've also never seen or used one in person, have you seen them end a deadly force situation and do you favor them over a taser....minus the officer safety 40ft vs 25ft.


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## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

I’m getting tired of seeing more and more videos of cops backing up several blocks when approached by someone with a knife or other weapon. This is similar to the San Diego PD bodycam video where the officer backed up 5 blocks before finally shooting the guy who was coming at him with a chain.

As far as I’m concerned, these two officers are a danger to themselves and other cops and their employment needs to be re-evaluated.

21 FOOT RULE, or the more current 30 FOOT RULE. If someone comes within 30 feet of you with a knife, then you shoot them to stop the threat, you don’t back up for miles and miles, it’s ridiculous. We have no duty to back up for miles or blocks, we have a duty to protect ourselves and protect the public.....and allowing a guy with a lethal weapon to back you up down a long driveway and onto a busy road is not fulfilling either of those duties.

And yes, I agree that less lethal weapons would have been ideal.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Dan, as a general rule, if a beanbag shotgun or even better a 40mm is available, and I realize it's a big if in other parts of the country, then they should at least be deployed if possible, but only if there is more than one officer at scene who would be the lethal cover officer.

You are correct that the beanbag shotgun doesn't always work but at least it's from much farther away, giving the officer more time to react if need be. The Taser fails as often as the Beanbag shotgun and it has to be closer, giving the officer less time to react.

I've seen the Beanbag shotgun work about 80 times and not work about 20 times. Pretty much every LAPD black and white has a beanbag shotgun it it. The 40mm is a far better, less-lethal weapon. The majority of LAPD black and whites (though not all yet) have a 40mm. I've seen them work very well about 30 times and not work about 4.

I've seen the Taser work about 150 times and not work about 20 times. Every LAPD patrol officer has a Taser on their Sam Browne. No less lethal tool is perfect, especially on suspects under the influence of PCP, Meth, (any central nervous stimulant), sometimes alcohol, and significant psyche patients. But, we should try when appropriate.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Have to be honest didn't know what the 40 millimeter was.

Guessed it might be this









Familiar with the launcher but didn't consider it a less than lethal option . More crowd control than anything else.

Then found this device.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Hi Pahp,

The picture you have above is not the 40mm I'm referring to. The 40mm can be used for crowd control but it's mainly used for tactical incidents such as we have here. The 37mm looks similar and is for crowd control only. At lease that's how it is with my department.


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## felony (Oct 24, 2014)

I prefer the M203.....


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

I am trained in the 40mm, and I have yet to see it not be effective.


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## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Bloodhound said:


> I am trained in the 40mm, and I have yet to see it not be effective.


I think it's a pretty good tool, definitely better than the beanbag shotgun. The only people I've seen it not be effective on are suspects under the influence of meth and PCP; and a couple of folks who had serious mental illness. Otherwise, it works pretty darn good. The other good thing about it is it's accurate to at least 110 feet away, especially with the optics on it.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Well you guys got me. Have no idea what you're talking about 

Norfolk County had the pepper ball gun. ( forgot what caliber it was )

Basically a glorified paintball marker shooting paintballs full of OC.

Tragically it proved to be lethal . Don't think anyone use them anymore.


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## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

pahapoika said:


> Well you guys got me. Have no idea what you're talking about
> 
> Norfolk County had the pepper ball gun. ( forgot what caliber it was )
> 
> ...


To be fair, that was the Boston PD.

Shooting of Victoria Snelgrove - Wikipedia


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Roy Fehler said:


> To be fair, that was the Boston PD.
> 
> Shooting of Victoria Snelgrove - Wikipedia


Rodger that.


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