# Knife carrying laws?



## ibach

I'm a 17-year-old knife collector/enthusiast. My level of annoyance with the vague nature of our knife laws (actually, most state knife laws) has gotten me wondering just how these laws are interpreted. From what I can tell in reading the laws, there is no blade limit on single-edged knives that are not gravity knives, balisongs (butterfly knives), automatics ("switch blades") or knives that don't have any other spring-loaded opening device. I usually carry a Victorinox Climber (http://www.swissarmy.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=55&page_id=1245440&query=climber&hiword=CLIMB+CLIMBED+CLIMBERS+CLIMBING+climber++) and a Benchmade Griptilian (http://www.benchmade.com/products/product_detail.aspx?model=550). Now, assuming that I am using them in a responsible, non-threatening, non-violent nature and for what they are intended, am I to assume that there is nothing wrong with carrying either of them (I'm sure there's nothing wrong with the Swiss Army Knife, not so much about the Benchmade because of the most-likely intentional vagueness of the laws. I asked an officer in person at one point, and he basically said that as long as it's not concealed and it's not double-edged, I'm all set. I also assume that having the back of the knife and clip showing defines it as unconcealed? Naturally, I don't carry it in school or places/towns with specific rules against it (eg. Boston or amusement parks).

Thank you very much!


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## DodgeRam

*Chapter 269: Section 10 *Carrying dangerous weapons; possession of machine gun or sawed-off shotguns; possession of large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device; punishment

*(b)* Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a),

And I assume your still in high school...
*Chapter 71: Section 37H *Policies relative to conduct of teachers or students; student handbooks

*(a)* Any student who is found on school premises or at school-sponsored or school-related events, including athletic games, in possession of a dangerous weapon, including, but not limited to, a gun or a knife; or a controlled substance as defined in chapter ninety-four C, including, but not limited to, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin, may be subject to expulsion from the school or school district by the principal.

Either way buddy, if your a 17 year old and I run across you carrying a concealed knife I'm not going to like that, and you give my any BS whatsoever I would find a reason to lock you up. Loose the concealed knives. Collecting is one thing, but carrying at least 2 is another.


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## ibach

> if your a 17 year old and I run across you carrying a concealed knife I'm not going to like that, and I would find a reason to lock you up.


With all due respect, you did not answer my question, and you revealed a very disturbing lack of integrity in that quote.


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## DodgeRam

My sincere my sincere apologies nit...


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## adroitcuffs

ibach said:


> With all due respect, you did not answer my question, and you revealed a very disturbing lack of integrity in that quote.


Actually, I think his reply in quoting the specific chapters that would affect you and your knife-carrying desire did answer your question. If you're looking for something more philosophical, you might have to ask the legislators how they felt when they wrote the chapter that we are authorized to enforce. Remember, we don't make the laws, we just enforce them. 
As to your carrying 2 knives on your person... _Why??_ If it''s your pleasure to collect, hey, enjoy it. But, why would you possibly need to carry 2 knives around? The Griptilian (and other similar knives) can be rapidly opened with one hand if one practices the skill, which could make it as quick to draw as a switchblade. If I came across you carrying 2 knives, I would not be too trusting of your intentions. Remember, you are walking around with 2 knives - I'm not in your brain, knowing your intentions. It's my job to make observations and take what action I deem necessary. If that means "locking you up", then so be it. Ultimately, I'd like to be able to go home at the end of my shift, safe and in one piece. If you could spend even one shift with me, with an open mind, you might see things differently...


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## ibach

The fact is that nobody has said that there is any law against my carrying this knife, and yet both of you have expressed the wish to "lock me up". This a traditional case of cops having their purpose confused. You are being paid by myself and my fellow citizens out of our paychecks to protect and serve us. Somehow, this gets lost and translation and officers forget that they are given the responsibility of upholding the law by the taxpayers for the taxpayers, not by some omnipotent being. I have the utmost respect for police officers and their work, and I sympathize, but cannot empathize, with the sense of danger in their jobs. That being said, this does not endow them with the right to step over the law or act on their gut instinct to make thesmelves feel safer. If I pull my knife out in a threatening manner, or otherwise threaten you, then by all means, smack my face on the pavement, cuff me, and throw me in the back of your Crown Vic. Otherwise, I don't understand why something can be legal but still get me detained for no reason. Could someone please explain this to me?

Furthermore, I was not asking so much for exact quotes of these chapters of law, but explanations of them. To me, the Griptilian is not at all illegal to carry in our state as long as it is visible, which it is, but nobody has been able to tell me that it is or is not legal, only that they are personally uncomfortable with it and thus willing to hassle me. I can say that *I* don't feel comfortable with the knowledge that some or most officers do not know exactly what the laws are but instead go on generalities and will act on this rather meager understanding of the law.


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## lofu

Try this on for size. You have not stated 1 legitimate reason for you having 2 knives on your person. If you can articulate 1 legitimate reason why you carry these knives then maybe we can understand. If you are in some sort of profession were knives would be necessary, then say it. Even in that case I think the Swiss Army would suffice. Otherwise, we as police officers will assume these knives are being carried to intimidate or worse, use on someone else. We will make this assumption based on our training and experience, two things that courts have stated are solid things for us to base our assumptions on.


On a side note, I am just curious, have you been trained in any knife fighting or defense techniques.

Oh, one more thing, just to let you know if you "brandish the knife in a threating manner," getting your face thrown to the pavement will be the least of your problems. Two holes in your center of mass from my double tap are a highly likely possibility.


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## ibach

First, I will say that I do not feel that I need to express any particular reason for carrying a multitool as well as a knife unless it is established that there is something wrong with that (there is not). But I will waive any initial indignant feelings for the sake of argument. The Swiss Army Knife serves as a tool for improvisation. Mainly, the two flathead screwdrivers do everything from prying and wedging to- well, turning screws . The scissors are a definite must have for cutting things that knives aren't particularly suited for cutting, which include packing tape and customer discount cards at my work (video store). The toothpick is good for reaching into small spaces and for picking teeth (when it's clean). The tweezers are extremely useful for removing splinters and picking small electronics screws out from the insides of the devices where fingers are too big to work. The edged knife blades don't see too much use, except for doing really fine slicing, as their thin blades excel at that. But the non-locking nature of these two blades in conjunction with their lack of mass make them pretty feeble tools in cutting and chopping branches, whittling, or making push cuts into fire kindling because I do not feel particularly confident of the light locking pressure of a Swiss Army Knife slipjoint. Naturally, the Benchmade locks up like a fixed blade (but is much more convenient to carry). When it's not being used for clearing/gathering, it's very good at performing other tasks such as cutting open both cardboard and plastic packaging (the Swiss Army Knife can't easily do this because a) it doesn't lock, b) it can't keep an edge as well, and c) the scissors are usually too weak and awkward to use on this material. I don't always carry the Benchmade, but it quite often finds its way into my pocket because I hold preparation in a pretty high esteem. I also carry it because it was a gift from my father and has some sentimental value, as it's been a good companion for almost three years, and because I collect/enjoy knives, and having my favorite one on me is good.

As far as any knife fighting or defense, I have not trained in any and do not plan on it. I would not see a knife as a suitable defense against a gun or another knife (knife fights aren't pretty, trying to escape, get help, or avoid the situation is probably ideal), and using a knife against an unarmed person is not something I want to make a habit of, especially since that kind of fight can be settled hand-to-hand if need be. I'm 6'3", and I'm not very easy to take down.


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## stm4710

Citys ( at there discretion) have anti knife ordinances that are even more strict and ban anything over "xx" inches for some knives. Salem is one city.


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## adroitcuffs

ibach said:


> Otherwise, I don't understand why something can be legal but still get me detained for no reason. Could someone please explain this to me?
> ...
> Furthermore, I was not asking so much for exact quotes of these chapters of law, but explanations of them. To me, the Griptilian is not at all illegal to carry in our state as long as it is visible, which it is, but nobody has been able to tell me that it is or is not legal, only that they are personally uncomfortable with it and thus willing to hassle me. I can say that *I* don't feel comfortable with the knowledge that some or most officers do not know exactly what the laws are but instead go on generalities and will act on this rather meager understanding of the law.


1. You do not pay me (or any other peace officer) out of your paycheck.
2. You having a penis might be legal, but use it in the wrong way and I will detain you.
3. If I detain you, I have a reason. You are not worth my career to detain you w/o cause.
4. My "gut feeling" has *saved my LIFE* on more than one occasion.
5. Yes, I knew the job was dangerous when I took it. That does not mean I will become complacent in order to protect YOUR feelings.
6. I said work one shift with me? Nah, I think you might need more time than that... You'd have to be prepared with an open mind...


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## ibach

I already established that I was not/don't plan on using the knife in an unlawful manner. Of course you'll detain me if I use anything unlawfully-even a Bic pen, but that is not the topic at hand. I never asked you to be complacent, I am demanding that police officers work within the law and do not punish or harrass those acting lawfully because of their own ignorance of the law.


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## lofu

You claim the police officers have an "ignorance of the law." Sure maybe the way you have interpreted it. If the law is so clear and unambiguous, why did you come here to post your question? In other words if you already knew the answer, why did you ask it? Many laws are vague and open to interpretation. That is why police officers have a great tool called discretion. I can decide when and how I am going to enforce the laws and do my job, of course I speaking about when the elements of a crime are met. I feel I must caution you however and let you know that a subject's demeanor plays a role in an officer's discretion. You might want to take a little "humble pie" and realize some officers may "harrass" you for carrying these weapons, however I do not believe an officer will randomly stop you because you have a knife clipped into your pocket. The only way this knife is going to get you jammed up is if you are stopped for some other reason and are Pat Frisked, or worse for you, searched incident to an arrest.


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## MARINECOP

Mods ban this tool, I don't think he can read. This anti-police child is wasting our time.


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## SOT

Look if you think it's legal to carry then carry it, you'll find out if you are wrong. If you are worried about if it's legal to carry, hire a lawyer and get them to explain it to you.

If cops are so unaware of the laws, then asking one must be a waste of time...so why even bother?


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## tomcats

> I am demanding that police officers work within the law and do not punish or harrass those acting lawfully because of their own ignorance of the law.


Your demanding??????.......Who are you but a seventeen year old kid and why do you feel it necessary to carry a knife? Are you compensating for your lack of something? Sounds like it. How do you carry the knife when your pants are hanging down below your ass anyway. Just remember the guy who brings a knife to a gun fight usually loses.


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## texdep

I still don't understand why as happens so often in the "ask a cop" section an individual asks an articulate question and is gets a response which is sarcastic, intimidating and plain old rude.

Someone went through the trouble of posting relative statues, then why not click on the links the kid provided and actually answer his question. i.e. that per se there is nothing illegal about the knives he questions.

But nooooo, let's threaten to lock him up, tell him he has to explain himself.

Do you behave like this o the streets or only here where you hide behind a made up screen name??


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## tomcats

He got several legit answers but he still keeps pissing and moaning about cops. How many chances should he be given?????????


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## texdep

tomcats said:


> He got several legit answers but he still keeps pissing and moaning about cops. How many chances should he be given?????????


Now this is a response that is coming from some one who hasn't read the thread or can't comprehend what he reads.

The kid was never given his first chance before the folks on here started flexing their testosterone.

The kid had a very polite attitude until the respondents hassled him.


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## lofu

texdep said:


> I still don't understand why as happens so often in the "ask a cop" section an individual asks an articulate question and is gets a response which is sarcastic, intimidating and plain old rude.
> 
> Someone went through the trouble of posting relative statues, then why not click on the links the kid provided and actually answer his question. i.e. that per se there is nothing illegal about the knives he questions.
> 
> But nooooo, let's threaten to lock him up, tell him he has to explain himself.
> 
> Do you behave like this o the streets or only here where you hide behind a made up screen name??


Yes I do ask people carrying multiple weapons on their person to explain themselves "o the streets." Usually when I find a 17 y.o. kid with knives, his intentions are not pure for carrying them. If he has a good reason and the knives are legal, fine but this is highly unlikely, from my experience. BTW I work in a large city and there isn't much need for something other than a Swiss Army. It's not like there is a jungle that we have to cut our way through. If this kid needs it for work fine but something tells me he's talking about carrying it at other times as well.


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## ibach

Texdep, I thank you very much for your understanding and for actually taking the time to read the post, consider what I was asking, and not skimming what I wrote and jumping to conclusions like most of the others who have responded to this thread. I see in your profile that you are retired, which is unfortunate, because knowing that there are people like you wearing badges and keeping our communities together is a good feeling. To those who have said I am anti-cop, I can only respond that you are anti-reading and anti-comprehending, and I hope that you reconsider my position: I respect nothing more than an honest, fair, and reasonable police officer, and despise nothing more than those who have power-hungry and corrupted views about their occupation. I don't think that anybody in this thread- or least I hope that nobody in this thread- is corrupt, but I think that many forget that laws, not officer's feelings or senses of security, are the standard by which they need to judge. Proof of this is that knives are being called weapons. Knives are strictly tools, and like any tool from an allen-wrench to to a sledge-hammer, knives can be misused. It just so happens that knives are more effective at their most common form of abuse- causing physical harm. If you think that I asked about the laws to start an argument, you are mistaken- and I think that it was evident that I was trying to be very polite until I saw a pattern of ignorance developing. I never said the law was clear-cut, but without giving any reason why the knife was illegal (it fits none of the criterion as far as I can tell), I was told that I could be locked up. If someone can provide a good reason why the knife is illegal, I will definitely consider that. From the beginning of this thread, however, the carrying of a pocket knife has been degraded into nothing short of an action with maligned intentions toward others. I disagree strongly with this sentiment, and perhaps, on a subconscious level, I carry a knife to excercise a right provided by law in spite of all of the negativity toward knives as much as I do to cut boxes, tape, and branches. Whether I agreed with your position or not, I thank everyone for at least participating in this thread. Texdep has answered my question, and I greatly appreciate that.


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## Curious EMT

Isnt this an 18+ forum?


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## SOT

What exactly is his question of legality going to do for him?
The appropriate response in this situation (especially to a minor) it to cite the law and tell them to ask mom or dad or get a lawyer.

Do you think if this kid gets jammed up his response should be " Well so and so on Masscops.com told me it was OK?" Is that really going to help him?

He was actually given a couple good answers by (what seem to be) current LEO's.
I would think that being told by a cop, "yeah leave that stuff at home"...or "if it were me I'd jam you up and let you do the explaining"...is pretty damn honest for cops.
Maybe they are right and maybe they are wrong...but I bet more than a couple cops coming up on a 17 year old with two knives are not going to be real friendly to the idea.
He's gotten a slight verbal example of what might go down in real life. 
Examples include: Kid hanging out on the block at 11PM, cops get called because some batshit neighbor who doesn't like kids complained. Cops roll up on the knife collector, see an unconcealed knife...do you think good or bad things might come of this?

What he really should take from this is, cops are going to have different opinions, but in the end if they think you are a problem...they are going to make a problem for you (as exibited by the thread). I think it's a perfect life lesson.

So the answer stands, read the law, if you think it's OK you have to deal with the consequences if it's not. If you really care, ask a lawyer but understand that even what they think might not be what the judge that might hear your case thinks.
I'd say a kid walking down the block has no real need for concealed or unconcealed knives, if you are using it for work, or hunting, or camping or something...hey you MIGHT get a pass. Being a knife enthusiast has no real bearing on this thread at all. I think most are thinking you are carrying a knife because you are a "kid that likes knives" and when PoPo rolls up on you and asks why are re you carrying two knives...the "i'm a knife enthusiast and I carry because I like them, is not going to be a sufficient answer".

That all said, I'm not a cop...and this is the internet and the advice is about worth what you paid for it.



texdep said:


> Now this is a response that is coming from some one who hasn't read the thread or can't comprehend what he reads.
> 
> The kid was never given his first chance before the folks on here started flexing their testosterone.
> 
> The kid had a very polite attitude until the respondents hassled him.


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## texdep

SOT_II said:


> What exactly is his question of legality going to do for him?
> The appropriate response in this situation (especially to a minor) it to cite the law and tell them to ask mom or dad or get a lawyer.


It answers his curiousity. Why even have this section called "Ask a Cop " if not for folks to ask questions they are curious about,



> Do you think if this kid gets jammed up his response should be " Well so and so on Masscops.com told me it was OK?" Is that really going to help him?


Based on his writing he's smarter than that.



> He was actually given a couple good answers by (what seem to be) current LEO's.


Just because I'm retired doesn't mean I'm senile!!!



> He's gotten a slight verbal example of what might go down in real life.
> Examples include: Kid hanging out on the block at 11PM, cops get called because some batshit neighbor who doesn't like kids complained. Cops roll up on the knife collector, see an unconcealed knife...do you think good or bad things might come of this?


Read the kid's posts, This is not the hang on the street corner type. Again take the trouble to read, the kid clearly explained he knew what the wrong actions on his part could get him. He simply asked asked as to the legality of two models of pocket knifes.


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## Guest

I had spent 24 years in federal law enforcement and I always tried to remember one thing I was employed to serve 24/7. And I shouldn't act stupid when I was representing myself as an officer ever if I was not on duty.


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## Guest

texdep said:


> Read the kid's posts, This is not the hang on the street corner type. Again take the trouble to read, the kid clearly explained he knew what the wrong actions on his part could get him. He simply asked asked as to the legality of two models of pocket knifes.


I, too, am sorry to hear you're retired. You seem to be the only rational voice on this thread, other than the original poster ibach, who I happen to know from another forum as a thoughtful, responsible, and very intelliganet kid.

To the rest of you: you have yet to give ANY legal basis for the supposed harassment you threaten to inflict upon ibach. He's read the law, he's quoted it chapter and verse, and asked you specifically what laws he might be violating; yet rather than draw on documented case law, you just make threats.

So, if you happened to roll up on him on the street, see the pocket clip of his Griptilian, smack him up against a wall and pat him down and find the Grip *and* a Swiss Army knife, and haul him in; under what statute? Which code has he violated? Where is it written in the MA law book that thou shalt not carry *two* otherwise legal knives?

He asked a valid question. Your answers have been rude, belligerent and downright embarassing. Put your egos aside for a bit, and just answer his damn question already.


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## Guest

Ok question, I am a second degree black belt in MMA, and carry a case XX in one pocket and a BM Griptillian in the other. The Case is basically there for when people ask me to borrow a knife because I am not going to trust people with my BM if they are not responsible enough to bring their own.

having cross trained over a few martial arts I have knife fighting under my belt. I would never use this knife for knife fighting if I could avoid it and the first words out of my mouth if a law enforcement officer where to try to arrest me would have something to do with the fact I have knives in my pocket.

so assuming I have no intent of using it in a violent manner or for anything other than slicing cardboard. is this Griptillian legal for carry, I carry a benchmade with an Axis lock for a few reasons first off is that its safe. second is that it opens easily with one hand. and god forbid I had to defend myself with a knife I could get to it quickly, so there is a "protection" part of me carrying a knife but nothing offensive is this ok


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## SOT

He doesn't seem "smarter than that" because he is asking for a legal opinion of knives from a police website. Want a real legal opinion, ask a lawyer and even then, it's MAYBE worth what you pay for it or it could be dead wrong.
Again His quote
"Furthermore, I was not asking so much for exact quotes of these chapters of law, but explanations of them."


HTML:


If he wants an explanation of the law, where should he go...ask a cop or ask a lawyer?

"To me, the Griptilian is not at all illegal to carry in our state as long as it is visible, which it is, but nobody has been able to tell me that it is or is not legal, only that they are personally uncomfortable with it and thus willing to hassle me. "

Ok so you have your answer, you think it's legal and you are not comfortable with the answers you got? Why? because really they don't confirm what you think...and you see that "some or most" police are going to react poorly to your carrying a knife because they "don't know exactly what the laws are but instead go on generalities and will act on this rather meager understanding of the law". Thems the breaks, just wait until you can pay for the privilege of owning a handgun. You think police aren't the all knowing about knife laws, the gun laws make it even worse.
Ok he wins, he was given the chapter and verse of the law, and three or four answers on the Internet is representative of "some or most police" in MA. He's a knife enthusiast who, I guess, likes to carry knives and when given what seem to be real world answers, basically saying that he's probably going to get hassled if he's stopped for another reason, somehow that's the cops fault.

I've read the posts, and again I think you need to read the answers, Ask a Cop isn't Ask a Lawyer, if a couple cops say he might get hassled, I'd take that to heart. It's the best he's going to get. 
Here's the best advice he's ever going to get:
If you want to know if something is legal or illegal, contact the DA in your area or the AG's office. Depending on the situation, they will be the ones that will be "going after you" if the police decide to detain you. More than likely your DA or the AG will not give you a legal opinion, but you can try. They will refer you to the law (as was done) and tell you to hire a lawyer. I've been down this road over a dozen times with gun laws in the state, it's the way it woks (or doesn't work).
More sage advice:
If you don't have an immediate need for carrying a knife (like camping, work, hunting) you will invite more trouble by carrying than not carrying...it's a basic fact of life. I know tons of guys that carry knives every day, they are in little pouches on their belts, you can not see the knife...but you have an idea that a knife is there. Is that legal? I would say no...have they ever been called on it? No.  Would that work for you? I don't know but I would say don't do it.

Ohhh yeah here come the unregisturds, go figure.... :BNANA:

[QUOTE=texdep]It answers his curiousity. Why even have this section called "Ask a Cop " if not for folks to ask questions they are curious about,

Based on his writing he's smarter than that.

Just because I'm retired doesn't mean I'm senile!!!

Read the kid's posts, This is not the hang on the street corner type. Again take the trouble to read, the kid clearly explained he knew what the wrong actions on his part could get him. He simply asked asked as to the legality of two models of pocket knifes.[/QUOTE]


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## ibach

Although my previous post was supposed to be my last, it appears that SOT_II still is not understanding me.



> He doesn't seem "smarter than that" because he is asking for a legal opinion of knives from a police website. Want a real legal opinion, ask a lawyer and even then, it's MAYBE worth what you pay for it or it could be dead wrong.


I will admit that I was probably being overly optimistic when I assumed that police officers, whose job it is to uphold the law, would actually know and understand the law. Although you think that others answered the question, the fact is that none of them stated whether or not the knife is legal to carry and why, and essentially only presented me with their own personal biases and feelings about knives. I wanted to know if a police officer would give me trouble if he saw me using the knife in a responsible manner, but instead I got people telling me that they would arrest me and giving no reason as to why the knife would violate any laws. Remember, it started out as an innocent question, and a few misguided officers (if they all are) decided that instead of answering a yes or no question, they would tell me about how they would use the power that has been given to them with no justification.



> Ok so you have your answer, you think it's legal and you are not comfortable with the answers you got? Why? because really they don't confirm what you think...and you see that "some or most" police are going to react poorly to your carrying a knife because they "don't know exactly what the laws are but instead go on generalities and will act on this rather meager understanding of the law". Thems the breaks, just wait until you can pay for the privilege of owning a handgun. You think police aren't the all knowing about knife laws, the gun laws make it even worse.


I was not taking my own interpretation of the law as a definitive answer, I was trusting law enforcement officers to give me an answer. Unfortunately, with the exception of TexDep, none of them even gave as much justification as I did for why it was legal or not. I was not at all comfortable with these "answers"- you're right about that much. Would you feel comfortable as a citizen if you were being told, in response to a very polite and clear question, that without the officer knowing whether or not it was legal, you would be treated like a criminal? If I felt anything but disgusted by that kind of a response, I would not be a good citizen of my country. If those are "real world" answers, then there is a real problem plaguing our law enforcement system.

While I thank you for the DA advice, I am also again disheartened by the way you say that I will be inviting trouble by carrying a knife. Nobody has established that it's illegal, but if I'm remaining within the realms of my legal rights, I'm still inviting problems? My intent or actions in this matter, assuming the knife is legal and my actions are legal, have nothing to do with how I should be treated. If that invites trouble, then the problem isn't the person carrying the pocket knife, but the one carrying the badge, and unfortunately, a loaded gun.


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## Pacman

ibach,
In one of your posts on the front page you made this statement..."If I pull my knife out in a threatening manner, or otherwise threaten you, then by all means, smack my face on the pavement, cuff me, and throw me in the back of your Crown Vic." 

I just wanted to correct you in proper Police Use of Force. If what you suggest happens, you won't be smacked, cuffed, or thrown into a Crown Vic. You'll be dead. If you pull a knife on an Officer, please by all means prepare yourself to meet the Almighty. 

I would suggest you not try this. Thank you, from your friendly Local Police Officers.


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## Otto

texdep said:


> I still don't understand why as happens so often in the "ask a cop" section an individual asks an articulate question and is gets a response which is sarcastic, intimidating and plain old rude.
> 
> Someone went through the trouble of posting relative statues, then why not click on the links the kid provided and actually answer his question. i.e. that per se there is nothing illegal about the knives he questions.
> 
> But nooooo, let's threaten to lock him up, tell him he has to explain himself.
> 
> Do you behave like this o the streets or only here where you hide behind a made up screen name??


Texdep, I am with you on this one. I think some of these replies and attitudes only cause distrust and resentment toward police by law abiding citizens. His question was well written and poorly answered.


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## GeepNutt

_I'm a 17-year-old knife collector/enthusiast. My level of annoyance with the vague nature of our knife laws (actually, most state knife laws) has gotten me wondering just how these laws are interpreted. _

Here was his original question, how would these laws be interpreted? He got his answer. He was told how it would be interpreted. He didn't ask for a definitive "yes or no". Unfortunately, it seems it wasn't the answer he was seeking.

_I disagree strongly with this sentiment, and perhaps, on a subconscious level, I carry a knife to excercise a right provided by law in spite of all of the negativity toward knives as much as I do to cut boxes, tape, and branches._

He knew what he was getting into here. The above quote just solidifies the fact that he is one of those wacko, non-conformists that will try and push the envelope with regards to the law, but then will retreat and try to hide behind the law when the situation warrants itself.


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## kwflatbed

Mods Time To Lock It Up


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## dfc2502

Ibach
First off, they are both legal to carry. Secondly, as a PO I would never know you were carrying them unless I had a *reason* to stop you. The presence of two weapons in your pocket, although legal could sway me in the use of discretion regarding the reason for stopping you in the first place. Mind you the presence of the edged weapons will not be the only factor in the use of discretion, but rather add to the totality of the incident. Remember, I would not be dealing with you or know of the weapons unless there was a problem in the first place.


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## SOT

I understand you completely...you seem to again miss the point on many levels.

Let's recap:

Upholding the law and knowing the law are two different things much of the time. If they were not there would be 100% conviction rate.

As to the rest, it happens every day. You think the knife laws are ambiguous, try the gun laws in MA. 
Here's an example:
The MGL does not specify how a non large capacity rifle or shotgun must be stored for transportation. That being said you could transport that thing in a rack in the back of your pickup truck. There was an incident here about 4 years back where a fellow did that. He was stopped, arrested, gun was taken. After much ado, he was either found not guilty or the charges were dropped. A week or so later, he received a letter about how he was found to be "not a suitable person" to own firearms by the CLEO (issuing authority) in his town. He had to turn in all his firearms. Now for what? Was he doing anything illegal? No, was he found guilty of anything? No.

I am not a police officer but it is a fact of life that a kid carrying two knives for no real "reason" might get jammed up. It was true when I was a kid, it will be true when you have kids.

Consider this: Let's say you are driving in your car, you are carrying your knife, or knives...you get pulled over. The knife is on the right side of your belt and not able to be seen by the police officer. Would you say that is now concealed? If the officer sees the knife when you step out of the car, what happens then? Police are going to take steps to protect themselves. If that means giving you, me or joe blow a hassle because something doesn't seem right...that sort of sucks but that's the way it was, is and always will be...welcome to the real world.


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## ibach

> _I'm a 17-year-old knife collector/enthusiast. My level of annoyance with the vague nature of our knife laws (actually, most state knife laws) has gotten me wondering just how these laws are interpreted.
> 
> _Here was his original question, how would these laws be interpreted? He got his answer. He was told how it would be interpreted. He didn't ask for a definitive "yes or no". Unfortunately, it seems it wasn't the answer he was seeking.


Acutally, that wasn't my question at all. That was a fact: I was wondering. This was my question:



> Now, assuming that I am using them in a responsible, non-threatening, non-violent nature and for what they are intended, am I to assume that there is nothing wrong with carrying either of them


So you essentially proved my point that you never really read or understood my original post.



> He knew what he was getting into here. The above quote just solidifies the fact that he is one of those wacko, non-conformists that will try and push the envelope with regards to the law, but then will retreat and try to hide behind the law when the situation warrants itself.


I'm not sure how wanting to know and understand a law and wanting to exercise my right as a United States citizen is being a "wacko", but after your previous difficulty with reading comprehension, I'm going to have to take your comments with a grain of salt.



> Mods Time To Lock It Up


And for what reason, might I ask?

dfc2502: Thank you for confirming what TexDep said. I do realize that having a knife on me while committing any violation of the law will make the situation worse, but as I said, I am not going to be committing any crimes with or without the knife.


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## Guest

I think that guy saying to lock it up was simply trying to get this massive stupidity to stop. having said that I am not attacking anybody simply stating that the thread has degenerated into bickering and the same points have been adressed five times or so.


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## KozmoKramer

All right, enough BS.
The question has been answered sufficiently.



ibach said:


> I will admit that I was probably being overly optimistic when I assumed that police officers, whose job it is to uphold the law, would actually know and understand the law.


Ibach - nobody here is interested in being lectured to by a 17 yo kid.
And consider quotes like the one above as you're first step towards getting banned from the site.
If you don't like the answers you've been given thus far; call a lawyer and have them explain the law to you.
*Thread Closed.*​


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