# 37 Boston Municipal Officers don't qualify



## Guest

*Municipal officers fail Hub screening*

*37 of 68 don't qualify to be Boston police*

By Donovan Slack, Globe Staff | December 12, 2006
Thirty-seven of 68 officers of the Boston Municipal Police have been eliminated from consideration for jobs with the Boston Police Department because they failed required background checks, did not qualify on physical exams or psychological tests, or did not submit applications, city officials said yesterday.

Just 31 of the Municipal police officers are now eligible to transfer to the Boston police as part of a controversial merger of the two departments underway this year. Mayor Thomas M. Menino had touted the merger as an economical way to quickly supply the city with much-needed patrol officers at a time of rising crime.

But the fact that so many officers failed to make it through the screening process appeared to vindicate critics of the merger who have maintained that Municipal police officers are not up to the standards of the Boston Police Department. The Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, which has been fighting the merger and is seeking a court injunction Wednesday, said yesterday that the failure of so many Municipal officers to meet basic department standards shows that their training and qualifications are less than those of Boston police and that they should not be allowed to transfer.

"How can they be an equal department, when at the same time, over half of them can't pass what we are contending is a watered-down process?" said Bryan Decker, the union's lawyer.

The city began vetting officers from the Municipal police about two months ago, when 60 submitted applications and underwent rigorous background checks, including reviews of criminal history, employment and driving records, as well as interviews with neighbors and employers. Eleven candidates failed, including three who had excessive absences at their current jobs. One failed because his record showed he had been involved in a domestic violence episode, according to an official briefed on the process who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Of the remaining officers, five were eliminated after mental evaluations, three did not pass physical examinations, and five withdrew their applications.
On Friday, five more were eliminated because they did not pass a physical agility test given to police applicants statewide. It includes an obstacle course, a trigger test, and a dummy drag in which officers must drag heavy bags simulating victims or suspects over a course in 11 seconds. The failed candidates can retake the test tomorrow, though officials say chances of passing it are slim without considerable time to train after a failure.

Those who withdrew from or failed the application process will lose their jobs Dec. 31, when the city dissolves the Municipal force, a 27-year-old agency responsible for guarding city-owned buildings, including libraries and schools.

They have been invited to apply for jobs as security guards at city-owned buildings, such as City Hall, at a lower pay rate, though city officials said yesterday that some may not be hired.

City officials said yesterday that the 37 Municipal officers who didn't make the cut will be able to reapply in the future. All will be included on a statewide list notifying them of job openings in Boston or other cities and towns.

"There's a hard part to this," said John R. Dunlap, who is overseeing the screening and merger process for the city.
In court filings, city officials say the merger will save some $2 million in salary costs and an untold amount in other costs associated with maintaining separate headquarters and equipment for the two police departments.

Officials with the Municipal police union did not return calls for comment yesterday.

Boston police union officials say the city should never have proceeded with the merger in the first place, knowing so many people would be left without jobs.
"This is irreparable, and it's going to hurt working families," said Thomas J. Nee, head of the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association. "Shame on anybody that advocated for this merger. It's what the BPPA has warned about many times before."
_Donovan Slack can be reached at __[email protected]__. __







_
© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company


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## HousingCop

*uggggggggh, don't even get me started on this. First & foremost, it's not a "merger", it's being considered a lateral transfer. In a real "merger" they would have taken everybody, faults & all. At least when the MSP merged with the Metropolitan, Registry and Capitol Police agencies, it was done right. Nobody was left behind. *

*I'd like to see EVERY Boston cop go through the same process now like the Muni's are going through. See what percentages of the current crop pass the background / 209a, drug, psyche and PAT test. *

*Now the BPPA seems to care about "hurting families" after they had been advocating the Muni's to be disbanded / abolished for the last 20 years. How about a big bowl of hypocracy, anybody? :---) *

*If anything, bringing over all the Muni's would thicken the broth. The city has been pissing in the BPD gene pool for a long time and it's come back to haunt them in a big way. I have neither time or the inclination to list all the attrocities. Maybe later tonight when I review the thread again..... HC*


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## Gil

HousingCop said:


> *I have neither time or the inclination to list all the attrocities. Maybe later tonight when I review the thread again..... HC*


I look forward to that post....


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## Guest

Could there be any more cogent example of "Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it?"

When I was a BHA cop, all I ever heard from the Muni's was how they were going to merge with the Boston PD someday. 

That day has arrived.


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## 4ransom

Just out of curiousity because I don't know much about them, what kind of academy do the Muni's go through?


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## Guest

4ransom said:


> Just out of curiousity because I don't know much about them, what kind of academy do the Muni's go through?


Regular full-time municipal academy.


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## 4ransom

Thanks.. the way I see things, the more BPD the better... 71 murders this year...


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## lawdog671

MSP "cosolidation" was done the right way?? Why should the absorbing agency be forced to suck up troublemakers and malcontents?? Talk to any pre merger trooper and get their opinion on that comment. I will say there re many good Mets, Registry, and Capitol guys but there is a substantial difference between them and "real" troopers. BPD has its own traditions, history, and espirit de corps you only get when you earn it. They should not be forced to take anyone who would not have passed their initial process because of a merger, liabilitywise, reputation wise, or for any other reasons notwithstanding. Sorry guys are out of work, but thats not BPD's fault, it's their own. They could have dissolved the whole PD, at least some have gotten in.


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## fscpd907

Do they have jurisdiction throughout Boston or just city-owned property? Does anyone know how rank and seniority transfer during a merger? Would a Municipal Lt. become a junior Boston Patrolman?


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## bbelichick

fscpd907 said:


> Do they have jurisdiction throughout Boston or just city-owned property? Does anyone know how rank and seniority transfer during a merger? Would a Municipal Lt. become a junior Boston Patrolman?


Generally in a merger, the absorbed PD's rank come over intact...so in the example of the MSP, they were handing Station Commander's posts over to RMV Lt's. Now some of them were good guys, but not being familiar with the MSP's Policies and Procedures or even their basic mission...and now they are in charge of 30-40 men and women.

Not good...


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## nirtallica

Stand by Boston for the lawsuits!! Any money on the table for new recruits will be history!!!!


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## Nightstalker

Generally... whats the difference between the 2 depts? Im not familiar with BMPD.


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## Guest

Lawdog, please spare me that "real trooper" BS because the Mets were a great regional PD. The guys who worked out of Medford, Revere and South Boston did more "real" police work then a SP trooper out in Concord who rode up and down Rt 2 all day. Ask a Met about the culture schock when the had to start using the prehistoric SP communications system or the cars that drove like Boston taxi's.

For the most part, the rank and file Registry Cop's continued to do MV and commercial enforcement and the former Capital guys were still up around Beacon Hill. All the horror stories that the "real" troopers siad would happen never did and in the long run the Commonwealth is very fine shape since the merger.

Ask anyone who lived around a Boston city park or a school yard about the job the low paid Muni's did and I am sure that they will tell you that they will be missed this summer. I find it hard to believe that the BP's will be patrolling the Boston Common the way the MPD does.


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## bbelichick

masscopguy said:


> For the most part, the rank and file Registry Cop's continued to do MV and commercial enforcement and the former Capital guys were still up around Beacon Hill.
> 
> All the horror stories that the "real" troopers siad would happen never did and in the long run the Commonwealth is very fine shape since the merger.


Spoken like someone who has no clue what he is talking about. Anyone with time on the MSP has many horror stories to share.

And no, "for the most part" those from former agencies didn't stick with what they were doing.

I do agree that the Mets were good cops, however.


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## Macop

Who cares about the MSP merger anyway, last I checked the merger happened and you can't do shit about it so why argue over it. This thread is about BOSTON POLICE and the MUNICIPAL POLICE.


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## HousingCop

*OK, getting back to the original subject here... The Boston Municipal Police Officers, Sergeants and Lieutenants are getting a royal screwing.*



> But the fact that so many officers failed to make it through the screening process appeared to vindicate critics of the merger who have maintained that Municipal police officers are not up to the standards of the Boston Police Department. The Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, which has been fighting the merger and is seeking a court injunction Wednesday, said yesterday that the failure of so many Municipal officers to meet basic department standards shows that their training and qualifications are less than those of Boston police and that they should not be allowed to transfer.


*Above statement means that ALL Police Officers in the Commonwealth are beneath the Boston Police in terms of "standards and training". These very same Boston Municipal cops who stood beside you at Day 1 at your MCJTC regional, MBTA or in some cases, Boston Police academy.* *All those who have attended an academy other than the Hyde Park Hilton should be up in arms about that statement. *



> Boston police union officials say the city should never have proceeded with the merger in the first place, knowing so many people would be left without jobs.
> "This is irreparable, and it's going to hurt working families," said Thomas J. Nee, head of the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association. "Shame on anybody that advocated for this merger. It's what the BPPA has warned about many times before."


*Oh boo-hoo. I can see the crocodile tears being shed on Shetland Street as the knife is being twisted in the Muni's back. They've advocated for the disbandment for over 20 years and constantly knock the Muni's balls off in the Pax Centurion / Pravda every month and now they have a shred of decency? C'mon, we're all cops here & can bulls#it with the best of 'em. Save it.*

*I am just glad I don't pay Tommy Taxes anymore. This s#it sandwich will eventually blow up in the city's face and most, if not all of the people who didn't make the process will eventually get on the job or be WELL compensated for their time. When was the last time you actually saw City Hall win a CS case? This just smacks of irresponsible behavior on the part of people who think they are the best & brightest. Well I have news for you. You're neither.*

*Again, take a look back at the last 6 months. They should not cast dispersions on anybody. Clean your own house before you knock others.* *More to come on that subject.*

*OK back to the MSP merge of '92. You guys (MSP) got to stay as long as you want & feed at the trough forever. What's to complain about? *


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## bbelichick

Macop said:


> Who cares about the MSP merger anyway, last I checked the merger happened and you can't do shit about it so why argue over it. This thread is about BOSTON POLICE and the MUNICIPAL POLICE.


Never heard of comparing similar situations?


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## k9sheriff

What could be the driving records that would cause an elimination for employment?I'm assuming DWI convictions.If so would they actually hold this against someone.The reason I ask is because I know a police officer who was convicted of this offense while employed as a police officer, but the chief kept him employed because he is a good officer,only human and sometimes people make mistakes.Just curious, if there are police agencies that would hire someone for this offense if it happened years ago when the person was much younger and immature.


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## bbelichick

HousingCop said:


> *OK back to the MSP merge of '92. You guys (MSP) got to stay as long as you want & feed at the trough forever. What's to complain about? *


Oh, so you mean THAT'S why we have some useless Lt's with 40+ years on that refuse to leave? That's why the promotional ranks are stagnant as the dead wood piles up in the upper ranks and hides throughout the Job?

Nothing to complain about, I guess.


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## 4ransom

*



OK, getting back to the original subject here... The Boston Municipal Police Officers, Sergeants and Lieutenants are getting a royal screwing.

Click to expand...

*How do you figure? When these guys merge, they stand to get at least a $20 grand a year pay raise to do the exact same thing they are doing now.


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## HousingCop

*4ransom,*
*I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit. All of the Muni's who actually make it over will be taking a pay cut first & foremost. They are starting off at the bottom rung of the pay scale. *
*What I am referring to is the 37 who don't qualify for various bulls#it reasons. These guys were good enough to be duly licensed by the City of Boston for their F/A and arrest powers year after year, but now aren't "good enough" for another job with the same basic functions. Before some people go off the deep end comparing jobs, remember that a murder is still a murder, weather it occured in an apartment building or in the park across the street. Same powers of arrests apply to both jobs. *
*Secondly, there are some guys that have been on that job since it's inception in 1979 and are 55+ years old with physical problems (pacemaker, bad knees, shoulders, diabetes, OTJ injuries etc... ) and now have to go do the PAT along with spry 22 year olds. *
*As it stands, there's really not much difference in base salaries between both jobs. Add in the incredible amount of OT and details, that would make up the 20K you speak of. *

*The city would have saved alot of money if they just handed each Muni 20 BPD patches and 20 yards of blue leg striping & said "see you in a week at Williams Ave".*


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## nirtallica

HousingCop said:


> *4ransom,*
> *I guess reading comprehension is not your strong suit. All of the Muni's who actually make it over will be taking a pay cut first & foremost. They are starting off at the bottom rung of the pay scale. *
> *What I am referring to is the 37 who don't qualify for various bulls#it reasons. These guys were good enough to be duly licensed by the City of Boston for their F/A and arrest powers year after year, but now aren't "good enough" for another job with the same basic functions. Before some people go off the deep end comparing jobs, remember that a murder is still a murder, weather it occured in an apartment building or in the park across the street. Same powers of arrests apply to both jobs. *
> *Secondly, there are some guys that have been on that job since it's inception in 1979 and are 55+ years old with physical problems (pacemaker, bad knees, shoulders, diabetes, OTJ injuries etc... ) and now have to go do the PAT along with spry 22 year olds. *
> *As it stands, there's really not much difference in base salaries between both jobs. Add in the incredible amount of OT and details, that would make up the 20K you speak of. *
> 
> *The city would have saved alot of money if they just handed each Muni 20 BPD patches and 20 yards of blue leg striping & said "see you in a week at Williams Ave".*


Housing cop, I agree. Munis are still sworn PO's. If the Muni's were not qualified, why were they given police powers? How is it that an applicant for the BPD has more rights than a certified PO? WHAT A MESS! BTW, I guess BPD's primadonna standards are so much higher than the MSP'S? There was no backgrounds, PT tests or pysch tests during our merge. I think the Muni's have a case.


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## MM1799

> For the most part, the rank and file Registry Cop's continued to do MV and commercial enforcement and the former Capital guys were still up around Beacon Hill.


I guess the fact that the Registry guys stayed where they belong is the reason why straight out of the_ State Police _Academy I found myself patrolling the RMV?? I mean c'mon, if you really think the registry guys who woke up and were staties didn't want to go off and explore the world outside of the RMV with their new found powers...


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## ferus fidelitas

Are the Housing Police and Municipal Police the same agency ? I thought housing police worked in the projects and that municipal police patrolled city owned buildings ...? HC, did you take the test ? Hope you did ok or make it on your re-try


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## bbelichick

MM1799 said:


> I guess the fact that the Registry guys stayed where they belong is the reason why straight out of the_ State Police _Academy I found myself patrolling the RMV?? I mean c'mon, if you really think the registry guys who woke up and were staties didn't want to go off and explore the world outside of the RMV with their new found powers...


You mean like the most incompetent state trooper EVER who went into one of the busiest CPAC Units in the State...She got bounced eventually because she couldn't even write an intelligible report.

Awful.

MM is right. The RMV and Capitol guys flew the coop and left boots fresh from 26 weeks of the SPA to handle their old duties while they explored new areas.


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## Guest

ferus fidelitas said:


> Are the Housing Police and Municipal Police the same agency ?


Totally different, the muni's work for the city, housing works for the BHA, a subtle but important difference.



MM1799 said:


> I mean c'mon, if you really think the registry guys who woke up and were staties didn't want to go off and explore the world outside of the RMV with their new found powers...


Registry inspectors had statewide jurisdiction. When I was a housing cop, I'd see them all the time in Roxbury & Mattapan hammering traffic enforcement to give the guys at B-2 and B-3 some breathing room.


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## j809

The reason the BMP are getting screwed is because they were not a powerful agency politically to begin with. On the other hand, the RMV,Mets and Capitol, were huge hacks and had huge dimes and got merged in with all the goodies. I hear that RMV guys still can get 80% even though the max for troopers is 75%. If the BMPD were hooked up this would never happen. I agree that a huge lawsuit is on the way, as we all know that there are many cops on BPD with shitty backgrounds but due to their cadets status and other hookups in BPD, they got on.


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## Guest

j809 said:


> The reason the BMP are getting screwed is because they were not a powerful agency politically to begin with.


Endorsing Jim Brett for mayor certainly didn't help.


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## ferus fidelitas

so it is the Municipal Police, who check the security of City owned buildings, and not the Housing Police who deal with disturbances and other crimes, that are going to merge with the Boston Police ... ?


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## MM1799

Delta784 said:


> Registry inspectors had statewide jurisdiction. When I was a housing cop, I'd see them all the time in Roxbury & Mattapan hammering traffic enforcement to give the guys at B-2 and B-3 some breathing room.


That isn't the point. They _could_ have continued to staff the RMV and help with traffic enforcement.. as Troopers. Instead they chose to join "neat" teams and completely leave the RMV, which obviously needed to be filled. With who? Well you have a brand new class of boots.. why dont we just throw them in there? 
Hilarious. 26 weeks of fun and sun to patrol the RMV hallway and issue licenses. Why didn't I just become a registry cop and then merge with the SP? I'm not saying that the reg/capitol officers did that purposefully.. but that is what happened. You joined the capitol police/RMV... stay there _as Troopers_.


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## Guest

ferus fidelitas said:


> so it is the Municipal Police, who check the security of City owned buildings, and not the Housing Police who deal with disturbances and other crimes, that are going to merge with the Boston Police ... ?


Yes.



MM1799 said:


> That isn't the point. They _could_ have continued to staff the RMV and help with traffic enforcement.. as Troopers. Instead they chose to join "neat" teams and completely leave the RMV, which obviously needed to be filled. With who? Well you have a brand new class of boots.. why dont we just throw them in there?
> Hilarious. 26 weeks of fun and sun to patrol the RMV hallway and issue licenses. Why didn't I just become a registry cop and then merge with the SP? I'm not saying that the reg/capitol officers did that purposefully.. but that is what happened. You joined the capitol police/RMV... stay there _as Troopers_.


Blame the MSP administration for that.


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## MM1799

Been there, done that.


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## 555low

MM remember, at least you've made it . Due to politics, you got a shit assignment. The muni guys due to politics, are gonna be out of jobs. In eighteen years I've learned two things, nothing (good/bad assignments) last for ever, and the worst job in any agency is still better than any job in the real world!


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## MM1799

I'm not comparing the MSP merger to this situation. I understand your point, but please dont try and justify the MSP merger's effects.. you sound like the administration at the time. 
As far as this situation.. it's just a big ugly mess.


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## Guest

MM1799 said:


> I'm not comparing the MSP merger to this situation. I understand your point, but please dont try and justify the MSP merger's effects.


Personally, I think that merger was the best thing to ever happen to the MSP. It injected a huge dose of personality into the agency, as well as got troopers off the highways, where they saw in-person that us icky city cops aren't the bags of shit we were portrayed to be at Framingham and New Braintree.


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## pahapoika

the muni's were called the "ghost busters" ( courtesy of howie carr , i believe )
and it was said guys took the job waiting to get on the BPD.

perhaps it was these past slights that has created a bad image for the Muni's

was told there's a law on the books that says there can only be one police department for the city and after the Municipal guys pushed the issue they kind of screwed themselves.

i say do the merge and let these guys keep their jobs. if there are any trouble makers i'm sure they'll surface and be shown the door


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## BSP268

> [/was told there's a law on the books that says there can only be one police department for the city and after the Municipal guys pushed the issue they kind of screwed themselves.
> QUOTE]
> 
> what about the other two agency's (bha and school police)


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## BrickCop

I think the Munis have a great case. It's of obvious importance to note that *the City of Boston is the employer for ALL personnel of BOTH agencies. *

The same employer (City of Boston) that has given each and every Muni academy training, firearms and police powers is saying they're not qualified to do pretty much the same job. It defies logic.


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## BSP1

school police is not a police dept.


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## Inspector

Brickcop said something defies logic...Almost everything we deal with defies logic, especially in the Commnwealth. Take this example, where does logic lead one to believe that "School Police" is not a "police dept."


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## rlay84

just curious about the merger. Do the muni's get the Quinn Bill now. Ps my father was a met cop, and my uncle was a mdc"trooper" Lt, @old colony and they both still say that the mdc was the best job ever created.


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## bbelichick

rlay84 said:


> just curious about the merger. Do the muni's get the Quinn Bill now. Ps my father was a met cop, and my uncle was a mdc"trooper" Lt, @old colony and they both still say that the mdc was the best job ever created.


My dad says your dad was wrong.

Anyone else's dads want to weigh in?


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## mikeyd1313

BSP1 said:


> school police is not a police dept.


Obviously you do know more about boston school police than I do, but if it is not a dept, who do you work for, the schools?


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## MM1799

Delta784 said:


> Personally, I think that merger was the best thing to ever happen to the MSP. It injected a huge dose of personality into the agency


Ya, a lot of personality.. especially from all the clerks at the RMV who lateralled to the police division of the RMV and then were merged with the MSP. I love knowing that when I am in desperate need of backup.. I can count on a RMV clerk. Also, as BB eluded to.. "_the worst state trooper in history", _I think its more like the worst police officer, ever. But she spoke at an RTT so she must be good, right? Thank god for the merger. 


Delta784 said:


> where they saw in-person that us icky city cops aren't the bags of shit we were portrayed to be at Framingham anNew Braintree.


That's still being debated.. 

And because this _is_ masscops and someone will take offense to that statement.. I am just busting balls.


rlay84 said:


> Ps my father was a met cop, and my uncle was a mdc"trooper" Lt, @old colony and they both still say that the mdc was the best job ever created.


So in their anger that they lost "the best job ever created" and were forced to merge with the MSP.. they quit the State Police, right?


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## bbelichick

MM1799 said:


> YAlso, as BB eluded to.. "_the worst state trooper in history", _I think its more like the worst police officer, ever. But she spoke at an RTT so she must be good, right? Thank god for the merger.


Oh my God, I had such douche chills when she was..."speaking".

And then there was the time one of her relatives was stopped and the subject advised the Trooper that his relative was "the best Trooper ever"...and that she had just receieved the "Trooper of the Year" Award. :2up:


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## Pinkos307

The reality of the "merger" is with the increasing crime rate, Boston just cut its police force (Boston, Muni, Housing). Smart thinking on the Mayor's part.

Bring them all over. Now I wonder how the Mayor plans on "cleaning" up the Boston Common without the Munis help.


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## BrickCop

bbelichick said:


> Oh my God, I had such douche chills when she was..."speaking".
> 
> And then there was the time one of her relatives was stopped and the subject advised the Trooper that his relative was "the best Trooper ever"...and that she had just receieved the "Trooper of the Year" Award. :2up:


HHhmmmm...I'll have to google "MA trooper of the year recepients" to find the dirt...you guys piqued my curiousity.:mrgreen:


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## Clouseau

MM1799 said:


> . Why didn't I just become a registry cop and then merge with the SP? .


Because you failed the Registry Inspector test. :mrgreen:

MM, I've been hearing that clerk to trooper story for years. No one has been able to confirm it. I think it's just a rumor, it has to be. I do believe some inspectors were promoted to Sgt just before the merger and then became SP Lt's. Clerk to cop...no way.

Housing, what's the real deal on BPD not wanting the merger? I'm sure there's more to it. I figure they wanted something for it during bargaining but didn't get it...$$$.


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## bbelichick

Clouseau said:


> MM, I've been hearing that clerk to trooper story for years. No one has been able to confirm it. I think it's just a rumor, it has to be.


There was one in B Troop.


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## Clouseau

bbelichick said:


> There was one in B Troop.


8O

Don't get me started. Was this investigated and confirmed? The Registry job was civil service. One had to take the Registry Inspector civil service test, pass, and then attend a police academy. No way did a civilian clerk become a full fledged armed cop overnight. Even reserves and part timers need an academy, never mind a civil service police job... It's illegal. There must be something we don't know about, or it's rumor.

Sorry to take this off topic guys, but this is outrageous.


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## Crvtte65

bbelichick said:


> My dad says your dad was wrong.
> 
> Anyone else's dads want to weigh in?


Diji's might have something to say in the matter


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## Guest

It appears the Coach Belicick is still in a sour mood after last weeks loss. I have also noticed that he never resists the opportunity slam someone who has rookie or cadet above their post. Maybe, it is justing his winning "real" Trooper personality shining through.

Obviously, there was some movement after the merger but all I know is I saw the same guys on Beacon Hill in SP uniforms who were former Capital cops. I saw the same Registry guys doing truck inspections in Chelsea and I was not aware of a major exodus of Mets out of the Upper and Lower Basin to "regular" SP Barracks. And we all know why that didn't happen.

The Boston Housing Authority is one of those quasi government agencies like Massport, and the MBTA. I belive the Mayor names the Director but I am not certain. They receive Federal, State and some local funding and at one time there was a requirement from the Feds Police presence on the property.

I respect the Muni's but you had to have some political juice to get the job. I never saw a test posted and the joke was that you had the jobs were reserved the sons and daughters of Meter Maids. 

They endorsed Brett back 92 or 94. You mean to say that Mennio was out to get them and he took him this long to do it.


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## female p.o.

I am not nor ever was politically connected. There was a Muni test and it was harder than the civil service test. I want to wish all the Munis the best!!!!!!


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## HousingCop

*There was no test when I got on the Muni's but there was one instituted after I left in '96 for greener pastures. (?) It was definately harder than the CS test, but a bit easier than the McCann 100 test. *

*When I left for Housing it was basically a $100 raise and no residency so I jumped on it. At the time, I used to taunt my former workmates about making more $$ and living in the burbs, but within 2 years they had eclipsed my paycheck by $80/wk and differential pay. Sucks when you have to eat crow.*

*Yeah, to get on was a bit political under Flynn but alot of guys got on who had no juice and the job was ALWAYS posted at City Hall and other gov't buildings. Just because it's not in the Herald or the Globe every Sunday doesn't mean it was a bag job as some people on here seem to make it out to be. Once you got on and were deemed "normal" they sent you to an academy.*

*In hindsight, it was not the best move for the union to endorse Jim Brett but back then, who would have thought Menino as Mayoral stock? Hell, I still don't. And him being there as Mayor proves the old addage..... Right Place, rIGHT *

*Well I was a Muni way back in the day and I can tell you first hand. There was a bit of politicking to get on the job. After I left for greener pastures (maybe) in '96, they instituted a test which was way harder than the CS but a bit easier than the McCann 100 test. Test was posted in both the Globe and Herald and local city / neighborhood papers so don't anybody tell me it was a bag job to get on. Pure bullshit. *

*I left for 2 basic reasons. $100 pay raise and no residency. I used to jab my ex-coworkers about the size of my check to theirs but within 2 years, the Muni's were making $80/wk more plus differential. Tables were turned and crow is best when served cold. *

*In hindsight, it was not the best political move to endorse Jim Brett for Mayor back then, but who thought of Menino as Mayoral stock? I didn't, and still don't but it proves the old addage true. Right Place, Right Time. *

*Menino could step in and salvage this whole mess but I await that to happen. With no Muni's to handle the nuisance calls, you'll definately see B&E's rise and havoc being wreaked on city property. 37 less Municipal cops means the city is safer? How so??*


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## Curious EMT

If they're taking two agencies and making them one, why are only some required
to undergo the hiring process again? 

How many cops after 5 years could pass the PAT? Im willing to bet less than half...


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## Macop

Who gives a shit about the MSP merger that was FOURTEEN YEARS ago, get over it.


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## bbelichick

Macop said:


> Who gives a shit about the MSP merger that was FOURTEEN YEARS ago, get over it.


If people are still pissed off then it might be a good reference as to the success of these things.


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## pahapoika

want to see something amazing ? sit at the dunk'n doughnuts in Andrew square some weekday afternoon and you will see , state , boston , amtrack , mbta , housing , muni's , school , sheriffs , park ranger , postal , hospital , port authority , umass , etc.

there's more blue lights and pistol pack'n mommas than you can shake a stick at 

every square block has it's own police force, now if they could just merge everybody..................... 
</IMG></IMG>


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## bbelichick

Wolfman said:


> I think there *is* one in B Troop.


The one I was referring to retired a few years back.


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## MM1799

Macop said:


> Who gives a shit about the MSP merger that was FOURTEEN YEARS ago, get over it.


I didn't realize the world revolved around you, Sir. Apparently forget the thousands who the merger _did_ effect... it didn't effect you so why in the world would anyone talk about it? How could I be so stupid. Next time I'll ask if it is ok to talk about something. Tool.


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## Guest

MM1799 said:


> Ya, a lot of personality.. especially from all the clerks at the RMV who lateralled to the police division of the RMV and then were merged with the MSP. I love knowing that when I am in desperate need of backup.. I can count on a RMV clerk. Also, as BB eluded to.. "_the worst state trooper in history", _I think its more like the worst police officer, ever. But she spoke at an RTT so she must be good, right? Thank god for the merger.


Hey, we're just enjoying the show.


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## Curious EMT

bbelichick said:


> If people are still pissed off then it might be a good reference as to the success of these things.





MM1799 said:


> Sir. Apparently forget the thousands who the merger _did_ effect...


How often do any municipal employers make decisions that are to benifit the individual employees?

The state merged because, for whatever reason, they felt it was the best idea for the state, not the troopers or RMV guys.

I can completely sympathisize for the guys that did earn the french & blue only to have members of another department, which may or may not have had it so difficult, join them at every rank. I completely understand why you guys feel your traditions and bonds were broken by people who got on the job differently and were now side by side with you, supervising you, and using seniority to bump guys out of good spots. But when it comes to business, and that's all cities and states are, businesses, it comes down to what's best for the entire business and their customers. Employee satisfaction has never been guaged in any merger in the private sector, and will be no different in our world as being slaves to the citizens.

I know for example if my dept absorbed the fire dept dispatching that I'd be PISSED if one of those whackers came in to MY station and had senority over me.

But, saying "the BPD merge is a bad idea because 14 years later, some troopers are still angry about their consolidation" is a dead end point.

Also, guaging success based on how happy people are about the consolidation is another moot point. The city is making a move, and keeping the cops happy isn't one of their goals, and that is very understandable.

It's not about the line guys, it's not about the troopers. It's about the state.

It's not about the line guys, it's not about the BPD guys. It's about the city.

Like I said, I can sympathize with everyone effected, but unfortunately, it's never about us little guys....


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## nevrehc

BB, do clerks have to put on ties and drive these silly cars? Or only in front of the Commandant one caught. She did retire, she did jump over from an interior security style post. No formal training.


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## bbelichick

nevrehc said:


> BB, do clerks have to put on ties and drive these silly cars? Or only in front of the Commandant one caught. She did retire, she did jump over from an interior security style post. No formal training.


That's the one!

What a classic "oh sh*t" moment, especially with that particular Commandant.


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## Guest

Curious EMT said:


> But, saying "the BPD merge is a bad idea because 14 years later, some troopers are still angry about their consolidation" is a dead end point.


The current situation with the Boston Police is NOT a merger. They're taking some lateral transfers from the Boston Municipal Police, and they're also picking & choosing who gets to transfer. A true merge would mean they would take everyone.

A point everyone seems to be missing is that no CS police department in the state will be able to hire anyone after 12/31/06 without first offering the positions to the muni's who failed to make the BPD cut.


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## mpd61

Delta784 said:


> A point everyone seems to be missing is that no CS police department in the state will be able to hire anyone after 12/31/06 without first offering the positions to the muni's who failed to make the BPD cut.


Excellent point!


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## new guy

mpd61 said:


> Excellent point!


True, but if these guys got passed over by BPD, than they can probably be passed over again by other agencies. Hopefully they are not going to be stigmatized.


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## Guest

new guy said:


> True, but if these guys got passed over by BPD, than they can probably be passed over again by other agencies. Hopefully they are not going to be stigmatized.


It's one thing to be refused a lateral transfer, it's another thing altogether to be on the CS laid-off list.


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## j809

> A point everyone seems to be missing is that no CS police department in the state will be able to hire anyone after 12/31/06 without first offering the positions to the muni's who failed to make the BPD cut.


Doesn't quite work like that. All you get is an interview and a background packet. Ask all the Springfield PD guys that were getting turned down everywhere. I graduated with two guys from the academy and they got layed off a month later. They were getting cards like crazy and they were signing lists, completing backgrounds and nothing, all thanks but no thanks. The same reason BPD bypassed them could be used from the other PDs. I think it's safe to say they are screwed and only a lawsuit will fix this.


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## new guy

Delta784 said:


> It's one thing to be refused a lateral transfer, it's another thing altogether to be on the CS laid-off list.


Delta, you've got fast fingers. So basically what your saying is that other agencies have to hire them unconditionally, if they want the gig ?


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## lawdog671

*


Macop said:



Who gives a shit about the MSP merger that was FOURTEEN YEARS ago, get over it.

Click to expand...

*Nice Bernardston patch....maybe less time bitching about MSP mergers and more time in town and you wouldnt be getting evicted from your station.....

And since it bothers some so much, "real" as I placed in quotes refers to troopers hired by the MSP that graduated from an RTT, not that they're better or worse, just real troopers.

Oh and maybe its just a coincidence.....LtCol of Enfield..Enfield MA one of the towns flooded to make the Quabbin...Quabbin covered by the Belchertown barracks...Belchertown one of the last major holdouts of the old MET barracks post consolidation.....someone got an axe to grind?...kinda comical..

BB...does this best Tpr..is that anything like the person who was going to pick up Major during consolidation but couldn't because of the stipulation that you must have 10.5 years on job to attain that rank? However there was no time restraints on LtCol...and therefore became the "first" Fem Lt.Col in MSP history?..NOTICE QUOTES !!! Too many abusers and garbage we HAD to absorb who became nuisances on this job and left with bigger paychecks than if we had some discretion as BPD is getting...good luck BPD


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## Guest

j809 said:


> Doesn't quite work like that. All you get is an interview and a background packet. Ask all the Springfield PD guys that were getting turned down everywhere. I graduated with two guys from the academy and they got layed off a month later. They were getting cards like crazy and they were signing lists, completing backgrounds and nothing, all thanks but no thanks. The same reason BPD bypassed them could be used from the other PDs. I think it's safe to say they are screwed and only a lawsuit will fix this.


That's what I said...they would have to be offered the positions. There's no guarantee they'd be hired.

The big difference is that on 1/1/07, the BMP will no longer exist. Any CS department won't have to worry about new officers bolting back to their original PD's (like the Brockton PD people who were hired by the MBTA in the early 90's), because there will be no job to return to.


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## patrolman244

_Typical Menio bull sh-t. Good luck to you Muni's you all will land on your feet and when you do you wont miss the Bull shit that you have had to put up with for many_ years.


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## Macop

I didn't realize the world revolved around you, Sir. Apparently forget the thousands who the merger _did_ effect... it didn't effect you so why in the world would anyone talk about it? How could I be so stupid. Next time I'll ask if it is ok to talk about something. Tool.

Waaaaaaaaaaah, get it over it baby.

Nice Bernardston patch....maybe less time bitching about MSP mergers and more time in town and you wouldnt be getting evicted from your station.

Evicted from the station, what the hell are you talking about, maybe you can elaborate, I havent worked there in three years. Oh and when I was in Bernardston I used to love going out to 91, most of the Troopers werent so arrogant to make waves and were fun to work with, but the older guys did, but they couldnt do shit about it.


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## Out2lunch

A little Birdie said BPD union is asking a judge or submittedd paperwork to block the merger... based on 37 people not being able to be hired...have a merry christmas everyone.


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## Macop

I hope so, argue about juristiction, details and other stuff, but don't fuck a brother or sister officer out of a job.


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## HousingCop

*They (BPPA) filed an injunction to put the whole thing on hold. It has nothing to do with the 37 people not being able to be hired. They don't want it, plain & simple. The "only" police seem to think they're above every other cop in the state. Unless they shopped around and found the right judge with a sympathetic ear, I doubt it will happen.*


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## ferus fidelitas

never even heard of "Bernardston" - where is it ?


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## PBiddy35

Way west and way north. 91 goes through it to VT.


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## Macop

Ferus I used to work there. It is a small town which borders Greenfield, Gill, Leyden and Northfield, Ma, And for the life of me I forget the Vt towns it borders. It is in the northwestern corner of the state.


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## Irish Wampanoag

kmf294 said:


> I took the test that was posted in the Herald in 1996. I got a 96 if I remember correctly and was actually told by Capt. McGuire that the job was mine if I was willing to move into the city for like $10.00 an hour. I had no political connection at all.


I took that same test and was called also. While giving me the offer the pay was 150 dollar cut a week so I had to decline! However, I knew nobody politically at all and was offered the job. I dont know if all the Muni were hack free but I know the test at that time I took it was legitimate. Boston Police I know for a fact has many many hacks. At one time in history 80s and early 90s if you did not have a residence in South Boston or your father was not a brass officer or you were not a minority you were sure not to be hired. Over 20 years I have seen people who are drunks druggies, wife beaters as well as other seedy type get on Boston Police. I can remember sitting next to a people at the civil service exams that were known to be trouble folk in the neighborhood and be called and get hired. Now the BPD is claiming these poor officers dont meet their standard oh please!!! Instead they will hire an individual who has no experience in police work over an officer with 10, 15, or 20 years experience and a full time academy are you kidding me!!!! 
The Munis will win their law suit big time and rightfully so, unfortunately the tax payer is going to have to pay for the arrogance of what we call the Boston Police Administration.


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## Guest

Irish Wampanoag said:


> The Munis will win their law suit big time and rightfully so,


I don't think so. I can't think of a single instance of successful lawsuit because a PD didn't take a lateral transfer, which is exactly what this "merger" is.


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## Macop

No, its not the same thing.


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## HousingCop

*Municipal officers to join force in Boston*

*Judge's ruling allows merger*

By John R. Ellement and Suzanne Smalley, Globe Staff | December 21, 2006
The Menino administration said yesterday it will shift 33 Boston Municipal Police officers into the ranks of the Boston Police Department after a Suffolk Superior Court judge threw out an effort by the Boston Police Patrolmen's Association to immediately stop the bitterly fought merger.
Article Tools

In a 26-page ruling, Judge Raymond J. Brassard said the city needs more police on the street now and that transferring the municipal officers will accomplish that goal in about four months, while hiring new officers through the traditional route could take as long as 18 months.
"The city has advanced a strong argument that an injunction preventing the transfer will harm the public interest, given the need for more BPD officers," the judge wrote.
Dot Joyce, Menino's spokeswoman, said the city will now send the 33 municipal officers for 12 weeks of training and will close the Municipal Police Department Dec. 31.
"It was an unfortunate waste of time and money," she said of the police union's challenge.
But union president Thomas J. Nee, pointing to other parts of Brassard's ruling, said the fight will continue before the state Civil Service Commission and the Human Resources Division, the state agency that oversees the civil service process in Massachusetts.
"This is not over," Nee said.
The judge wrote that the police union's key complaint, that municipal officers are not similar to Boston police officers, may be valid.
But the judge also said the courts should first let the administrative agencies weigh in, before the courts step in again.
The union contends in court papers that the municipal officers were hired without taking a civil service test, while every Boston police officer has taken and passed the exam.
Mark McKeown, president of the Boston Municipal Police Patrolmen's Association, welcomed the ruling, but noted that only 33 of his 68 members will still have jobs. The remainder will retire or be laid off, as the city shutters the department.
"Some will retire and some, unfortunately, will be collecting unemployment," said McKeown, who is one of the 33 selected. "I'd prefer that every Municipal Police officer had a job with the Boston Police Department."
According to city officials, the other municipal officers did not pass a background screening, failed mandatory physical tests, or decided against moving into the larger department.
Joyce said the city is looking to place those officers in unarmed security guard positions.
_John Ellement can be reached at __[email protected]__. Suzanne Smalley can be reached at __[email protected]__. _

*Well, isn't this a new development. Seems that the BPPA likes to throw money away. First with radio ads and CS hearings and now with court injunctions. Think of all the homeless people that money could have fed.  *

*Gee Irish, I was hired in the very late 80's there and didn't live in Southie or have minority status or have brass in my lineage. There goes that argument right out the window. Think of the small pay cut (made up by OT or details every week) you & KMF would have taken as opposed to the pay boost you will have recieved as of 1-01-07. Sometimes you got to take a step back before the big leap forward. :baby21: *

*Sometimes in this thread, the 1992 merger has come up. It was only used for comparison purposes but the thread gets hi-jacked by members (well intentioned?) and it goes off topic once again. You've got your own section on here for Chrissake. Does it always have to be about ME ME ME over and over again? Stay on topic and at least post ONE SENTENCE about these Boston Municipal cops who are being royally screwed here. Your merge was 14 years ago. Some of the members who post on here about the topic probably weren't even on the job or shiny pennies at that point. Get over it. The bell has been rung already. These guys are in the fight for their careers. At least in 1992, everybody was taken, good or bad. Nobody lost their jobs.*

*Delta, they call it a Lateral Transfer when in fact they just wanted to pick & choose. The city WILL lose on appeals and other shenanigans pulled. CS says that if one PD is abolished and another assumes it duties, then all members will be taken on, with no loss of pay, time in grade or rank. *


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## Irish Wampanoag

*Gee Irish, I was hired in the very late 80's there and didn't live in Southie or have minority status or have brass in my lineage. *
*LOL I guess thats why your working for Boston Housing instead of Boston Police!!! *

*Sometimes in this thread, the 1992 merger has come up. It was only used for comparison purposes but the thread gets hi-jacked by members (well intentioned?) and it goes off topic once again. You've got your own section on here for Chrissake. Does it always have to be about ME ME ME over and over again? Stay on topic and at least post ONE SENTENCE about these Boston Municipal cops who are being royally screwed here. Your merge was 14 years ago. Some of the members who post on here about the topic probably weren't even on the job or shiny pennies at that point. Get over it. The bell has been rung already. These guys are in the fight for their careers. At least in 1992, everybody was taken, good or bad. Nobody lost their jobs.

Delta, they call it a Lateral Transfer when in fact they just wanted to pick & choose. The city WILL lose on appeals and other shenanigans pulled. CS says that if one PD is abolished and another assumes it duties, then all members will be taken on, with no loss of pay, time in grade or rank. *

Dam dude calm down!!!


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## Guest

HousingCop said:


> *Delta, they call it a Lateral Transfer when in fact they just wanted to pick & choose. The city WILL lose on appeals and other shenanigans pulled. CS says that if one PD is abolished and another assumes it duties, then all members will be taken on, with no loss of pay, time in grade or rank. *


The argument could be made that the BPD was doing that job all along.


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## lawdog671

Sorry to the guys who lost your jobs...Im sure there were reasons...and Im sure BPD had their legal dept let them know if they could do this, so Im sure theyre not really too worried at this point about lawsuits. 
Regarding Bernardston...go west to Springfield then north till Vermont and just before the line youll go through Bernardston..lol...
Oh and MACOP...#1 The Bernardston PD was condemmed and the PD was evicted because of a crappy building. #2 I worked B-2 for a little over 4 years and saw Bernardston PD once on Rte 91. The guy was falling all over himself in apologies for being there and my response was "There are plenty of douchebags for us all." Is that arrogance?


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## Macop

Dude, Housing Cop makes good points!!!

Glad to hear it Lawdawg, I think you misunderstood what I said, I was saying that most of the troopers (like 99%, cause I only ran into 1 that pissed and moaned at me) were just good guys and NOT arrogant to say get off my highway and knew there were dirtbags to go around and we were all on the same side. That place was a shithole and the town, just after I left the Board of Selectmen, (at the time were fucking clowns) blocked the chief's attenpt to get a DONATED building from a local buisness that was leaving town. It would have made a great station with a minimal amout of renovations. It is a blessing in disguise that it was condemed, and the curent BOS are very good. When I was there I spent a lot of time on 91 depending on what else I had going on, and the Troopers would have fun on Rte 10 in town because it was a drug factory. And I was more than glad to see em. I forget the names of the guys out there but they were great, they were recwent academy graduates, with the year anyway. They were especially welcomed when at 2 or 3 a.m I was bagging OUI after OUI on Rte 10 near the on ramps, SP was always there to lend a helping hand and would come back to the station with me if I had a jackass, those guys loved my crusier, an unarked, black smoked out Ch 90 monster. I even had a few guys tell me I should join em under the bridge to do some lidar, but never got the chance, I do miss those guys they were fun to work with. I wonder if you and I ever crossed paths?

Actually Law dawg here was on guy whose name I remember, he was not too long out of the academy and was an older guy, well older for a recruit I guess he was 37 at the time, I only remember his first name, Dan. This was back in 03.


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## BrickCop

The Muni thing is not a lateral in the true sense of the word in that they're not going to and from different city/towns. This isn't like a Milton cop trying to lateral to Weymouth...

As I mentioned in a previous post, the City of Boston is the employer, they sign the checks. What argument can Boston use in court to say the Muni's were qualified to attend and complete f/t academies, carry glock 40's, make arrests, etc in countless areas of the city yet were not "qualified" to perform the exact same function elswhere in the city? 

BTW Could this open up the city to lawsuits from scumbags claiming that they were falsely arrested or otherwise violated by "unqualified" Munis in the past?! The city can't have it both ways (or can they)?


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## Macop

Good point.


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## female p.o.

Curious EMT said:


> If they're taking two agencies and making them one, why are only some required
> to undergo the hiring process again?
> 
> How many cops after 5 years could pass the PAT? Im willing to bet less than half...


*Nevermind taking the PAT test while still being on maternity leave.... *


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## BSP268

4 hours to till all 37 mui become boston police officers


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## Guest

The Boston Municipal Police no longer exist......


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## ferus fidelitas

they went to a full time municipal academy, did the job, passed the tests required... WHY does the BPD want to ostricize them..? Would they really want some inexperienced 21 yr old that has never been a police officer instead of these guys who have proved themselves ? if so, why....? Best wishes to the new BPD officers.. It is up to the employer, the City of Boston, to make these decisions.. The Munis will do fine.


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## policelaborlaw.com

*For municipal police, it's the end of the line*

*City merges division with Boston department*

By Maria Cramer, Globe Staff | January 1, 2007
Sergeant Karen Ahern had turned in her gun, her baton, and her riot gear. She saw no reason yesterday to don the navy uniform she had worn for 10 years as a Boston municipal police officer.
It no longer had any meaning.
Her last shift was to end at midnight yesterday , the same time the armed division of the Boston Municipal Police Department, a 25-year-old institution headquartered in Dorchester, would close. Ahern and about 30 other officers would be out of a job, while 33 of their colleagues would head to the Boston Police Department, which accepted them last month after they passed background checks and physical and psychological exams.
Yesterday, Ahern, dressed in jeans and sneakers, spent her shift turning in other officers' equipment to her managers and hugging colleagues as they left. Her time on the obstacle course in a physical agility test had been 13 seconds too slow.
"It's just a really gloomy day," she said.
The city's police department has been forced to absorb the officers after Mayor Thomas M. Menino ordered a merger with the municipal police as an economical way to supply the city with patrol officers. The human resources division of the Executive Office for Administration and Finance approved the transfer of the 33 officers, according to a Dec. 28 letter to the city's department of human resources.
The Boston Police Patrolmen's Association, which also opposes the merger on the basis that municipal officers were hired without taking the civil service test every Boston police officer has had to pass, plans to appeal that decision, a lawyer for the union said yesterday.
Joe Coppinger , a leader of the Boston Municipal Patrolmen's Association, said he would call on the state Civil Service Commission to transfer to the police department the 31 officers who were not accepted. Coppinger , who failed the psychological exam, said the background checks and tests administered were unfair and that the union has hired a lawyer to fight the city's decision.
He said the union plans to obtain the support of the city council and the public by telling community leaders that Boston streets will be less safe with 31 fewer armed police officers. Other union members vowed to fight Menino's decision.
"I'm ready for the long haul," said Patrolman Ric Alfred Jr. , who said he had been rejected because of a restraining order filed against him in 2003 that was later rescinded. "It's going to get nasty. It's going to get hot."
Dorothy Joyce , Menino's spokeswoman, defended the decision to merge.
"The city will be as safe," she said. "The duties that were done by the municipal police are now the responsibilities of the Boston police force. We did this as an effort to put more money into the Boston Police Department instead of sharing the resources."
She said those officers who failed the tests and background checks could reapply in April or take jobs as unarmed security officers in the city.
"There will be no one unemployed unless they choose to be," Joyce said.
But becoming an unarmed officer is unappealing because they make about $200 less than armed patrol officers, whose top weekly pay is $891 , said Coppinger , who was set to become president of the municipal officers' union at midnight. He said he would accept a security position because he needs health insurance.
"It's either that or collect unemployment," he said.
He said the union hired a psychologist who had evaluated the municipal officers who failed the Boston Police Department's psychological exam. The union psychologist determined that the officers are fit to serve, Coppinger said.
The physical agility test discriminated against older officers, he said.
"If the roles were reversed, half of the Boston Police Department wouldn't have made it to the Boston municipal department," he said.
Joyce said the municipal officers had months to prepare for the tests. "Boston police officers who go on leave for any type of injury have to retake the same type of physical examinations, including people who are older," she added.
She noted that the rejected municipal officers are at the top of hiring lists the state has sent out to other police departments. But Coppinger said they could be rejected again if they fail those departments' tests or background checks.
"You're guaranteed to go through the hiring process," he said, "but you're not guaranteed to get hired."
Ahern, 35, suggested other departments might stigmatize those who failed the city's criteria, saying: "Are other departments going to say, 'You didn't make it to Boston police. You think we're going to take you?' "


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## 94c

so if this puts more cops on the street, who is going to protect the public buildings?


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## new guy

Best of luck to all the former muni's. They didn't always get the respect they deserved but the ones that I've crossed paths with over the years were pretty solid cops.


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## Macop

Im not so sure how big of a dent 33 cops will make in a pd of a couple thousand, but I suppose its better than none.


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## BrickCop

94c said:


> so if this puts more cops on the street, who is going to protect the public buildings?


I was thinking the same thing, are they going to give their calls to the already overworked/understaffed BPD? Hey, maybe they'll assign the new Muni BPOs to do it...oh wait a minute....


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