# machine gun permit



## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

so i got my class A ltc unrestricted. I've had it for over a year - never had a problem/encounter. I have an AR-15 which is pretty slick but i want an mp5..... wait..... i neeeeed an mp5. 

What's the deal with machine gun permits?


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

First get your C&R FFL, that proves that you are a bonafide collector, then apply for your machine gun lic. You may want to see if your town will even issue a MG license as many do not.

Then understand that a transferable MP5 is about $13,000.



jasonbr said:


> so i got my class A ltc unrestricted. I've had it for over a year - never had a problem/encounter. I have an AR-15 which is pretty slick but i want an mp5..... wait..... i neeeeed an mp5.
> 
> What's the deal with machine gun permits?


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

What's a CR FFL and how to i obtain one? I think my town is "will issue" but that may be just for ltc's and such. 
Yea i know those mp5's are expensive..... all i have to do it figure out how to drive it to work.. haha thanks for the help!


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## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

Drive it to work? Do you work for Wackenhut security?


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## DANIPD (Jun 30, 2003)

The FFL can be obtained from the ATF:

http://www.atf.treas.gov/dcof/index.htm


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## GMACK24 (Jun 2, 2003)

drive it to work ? ! ?

am I the only one that scratched my head and said WTF to that one ?


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

A C&R FFL is a collectors license, it allows you to get certain firearms sent directly to your house. You are not a dealer, just a bonafide collector. In MA having a C&R is one of two ways you can get a MG license, if your town issues them

A couple pluses to the C&R, you can get handguns that are "not approved" fo MA as the transfer to you would not be a "retail sale". It would be a sale from a licensee to a licensee. Many people say Ohh no that's not true...but it is.

Many online companies will sell to you with the C&R whe they normally wouldn't, as well many will give a discount with a C&R FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htmhttp://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/intro.htm More info here

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/faq.htm

And for those that didn't get it, since the price of the MP5 is so high, he's making reference to the fact that it's the cost of a car...so it's a car or MP5....get it...



jasonbr said:


> What's a CR FFL and how to i obtain one? I think my town is "will issue" but that may be just for ltc's and such.
> Yea i know those mp5's are expensive..... all i have to do it figure out how to drive it to work.. haha thanks for the help!


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## EOD1 (Mar 11, 2004)

just outta curiousity, why do you


> neeeeed an mp5.


 are you trying to ge a job at the post office? don't get me wrong MP5 are fun, especially the MP5SD.


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

i don't actually need an mp5, i'd just love to have one... and yea, a silenced one would be twice as nice.


SOT: I'm intrigued by what you said. So if i have one of these FFL's i can get restricted guns that don't pass the Mass AG restrictions. But can i carry that gun? Say i buy one of those kimber pistols - could i carry it on my person as per my LTC? thanks again


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## popo (Apr 1, 2005)

My understanding is that you cannot buy a pre-ban automatic weapon unless you are a dealer or a law enforcement agency or military. You can buy a pre-ban weapon with a machine gun license but that will cost like $13000 for an MP5. MEanwhile, our PD bought fullauto MP5s for cheap money, maybe $1000-$1500 each. SO even if you get a machine gun license(which you will not) it's useless unless you got shitload of $$$ laying around.


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## JoninNH (Jan 29, 2004)

You want to carry an MP5 with you, on your person??? I can't be the only one wondering "WTF" on that one.


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

JoninNH said:


> You want to carry an MP5 with you, on your person??? I can't be the only one wondering "WTF" on that one.


i never said that at all......


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## JoninNH (Jan 29, 2004)

jasonbr said:


> i never said that at all......





> I'm intrigued by what you said. So if i have one of these FFL's i can get restricted guns that don't pass the Mass AG restrictions. But can i carry that gun?


You then mentioned the Kimber. But you were talking MP5 before. I drew a line between MP5 and your question about carrying.


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

ooooh... nope... SOT got me thinking, he mentioned that if you got a CR FFL that i could purchase pistols that are restricted in MA (i think anyways) like kimbers and HK's. Pistols that are restricted due to not meeting the MA AG requirements.

i've always wanted a nice USP and/or Kimber carry.... but those companies said they have no interest in meeting the MA AG requirements so when i heard that from SOT i was interested...


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## rscalzo (Sep 16, 2005)

Try over at the Pelham Rifle and Pistol Club in Pelham, NH. They have Class III shoots a few times a year. They would know the pitfalls and details on getting a Class III permit. :spell:



jasonbr said:


> so i got my class A ltc unrestricted. I've had it for over a year - never had a problem/encounter. I have an AR-15 which is pretty slick but i want an mp5..... wait..... i neeeeed an mp5.
> 
> What's the deal with machine gun permits?


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## 2-Delta (Aug 13, 2003)

Do they make an inside-the-waistband holster for my Barrett .50 cal?


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

To clear all this up:
1. There are no "preban" machine guns. There are three types of machine guns transferable, presample, and post sample. refer to the explination below.

2.If a gun qualifies as a C&R and is not on any "list" and you wouldn't be able to buy it at a retail location, you can get it direct. This does not mean you can buy NEW guns, they must be C&R guns.


To answer some of the more reoccurring questions we get we have created this FAQ.

Can I own a machine gun?

The answer is a very qualified MAYBE. There are MANY factors that determine your eligibility to own a machine gun, ranging from what state you live in, local your Chief Law Enforcement Officer, your citizenship status and if you have a “clean” background. Generally if you are able to purchase a pistol and live in a state that allows private citizens to own a machine gun, you can probably buy one.

I thought silencers were illegal!

For the most part the same set of laws that govern the sale and ownership of machine guns, governs the sale and ownership of suppressors (not silencers- there’s really no such thing).

Again Federal law allows for it, it’s really up to your state and local laws as to whether or not you can own one. In MA only qualified manufacturers and law enforcement can own siencers.

I saw two machine guns that were exactly the same but one was $13,000 and the other was $1000. What is up with that?

In this world there are really three types of machine guns.

Transferable: They can be sold to any qualified individual (the expensive ones)

Pre 1986 Dealer Samples: Can only be sold to dealers, Law Enforcement Agencies, and the Military (as an institution).
Post 1986 Dealer Samples: Can only be sold to dealers with a law enforcement demo letter, Law Enforcement Agencies, and the Military (as an institution).


Basically the transferables are the expensive ones because there is only a finite number of them to go around. When they are gone…they are gone. This is one reason why people collect machine guns; they consistently out perform the stock market with regards to return on investment.

I’m a Law Enforcement Officer/Military Personnel I would like to buy one of the cheap machine guns.

Sorry we can only sell pre and post sample machine guns to Law Enforcement Agencies or the Military as an Institution. If your department wants to outfit you with a machine gun for duty use, we can help. If you want one for personal use, you’ll have to buy a transferable and go through all the background checks like everyone else.

I’m from outside the US, I would like to buy a machine gun, can you help me?

No. We do not import or export machine guns or any other type of firearms.

I would like to visit your store and see some of those machine guns anyway.

Sorry we are a manufacturing facility, we are not open to the public for tours nor do we sell retail items here. If you are interested in purchasing a gun please check with our retail partner, Avid Sports . If you are an NFA enthusiast, we will handle your transfer and make our facility available to you by appointment.

I just moved to Massachusetts and I want to buy a gun, what do I do?

First off check with your local law enforcement agency to get your FID/LTC permit package. Once done you should have a good idea of what is going to be required of you. The issuance of a firearms permit is at the discretion of your local chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) but you MUST meet certain state requirements even to be considered. We are licensed by Massachusetts to teach many of the firearms safety courses, from NRA Home Firearm Safety to our own MA approved, CQB Arms License to Carry Course (LTC-014).

Normally you will get your permit package, fill it out, take the class, submit your information and payment ($100) to your CLEO and wait about 2 months.


If you already own guns and are planning to move to Massachusetts , you have 60 days to obtain a permit that corresponds to the types of guns you own. During that 60 days, you MAY NOT transport or use those firearms outside your home.

If the assault ban ends can I buy some high capactiy magazines from you?
Even if the Federal assault weapons ban ends Massachusetts has it's own assault weapons ban that includes a ban on high capacity magazines. Any high capacity magazine sold in Massachusetts must have been lawfully possessed before September 13, 1994. Post AWB magazines will be of new manufacture and will not meet this requirement. The ONLY exemption to high capacity magazine ban is if the magazines are for Law Enforcement use.

MGL 140 Section 131M.



If you need information on classes or would like to schedule one, please email or call 413.698.2345.

Thank You
The Staff at CQB Arms


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

thanks SOT


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

NP if you are ever out this way you can shoot mine.


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## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

So what kinds of transferables are available these days? I've had my green card for 10 years. Not because I needed it, but because I was eligible for it and got it right around the time Brady was being discussed. I never got a curios & collectibles FFL but hey what the hell, might as well now....


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## cjmajor (Feb 3, 2006)

Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

To go quail hunting with Dick Cheney


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


have you ever shot a machine gun?


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## jasonbr (Feb 9, 2006)

to follow up..... if you have you'd need one too


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

What a stupid question, it's not a matter of need it's a mtter of right and enjoyment.
Why do you surf the web, why do people collect things, hobbies are not about the why, they are about the can.



cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


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## JoninNH (Jan 29, 2004)

cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


Bill of Rights
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Apparently you haven't got to that part of your CJ degree yet.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


What a fart-sack!:NO:


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


Kinda like the condom theory...
I'd rather have one and not need it, than need it... and not have one...:GNANA:


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## cjmajor (Feb 3, 2006)

Excuse me for asking a "stupid" question. I guess i am looking to far into it


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## KozmoKramer (Apr 25, 2004)

*CJMAJOR* - an overwhelming majority of this sites membership is pro-gun and protective of our 2cd Amendment right. Pro-gunners, especially in Massachusetts; where law abiding firearm owners have been under an onslaught of legislation by the anti-gun crowd get irritated by the "Why would you need.." scenario. Thats exactly the type of approach that is used to push more stringent and anti-Constitutional restrictions by the likes of Kennedy, Meehan, Markey, and McGovern..

Hopefully your question was an innocent misstep and you havent been indoctrinated by the the leftist professors in your CJ journey...


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## msw (Jul 19, 2004)

cjmajor said:


> Why would a civilian need a machine gun??


Why does a civilian need a 180 mph Ferrari when a 1988 Chvey Impala will do? Why does a civilian need a semi auto pistol when a revolver will do? Does a family of four need a 14,000 square foot mansion when a 3 bedroom, two bath tract home would suffice just fine? Remember, this is still America, where it is not (or at least, it SHOULD not) be the government's business to tell its law abiding citizens what they NEED to have. If you want it, and can afford it, and do not intend to use it (nor do you use it) to harm others, and your wife will let you buy it, then why should you not have it?


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## Curious EMT (Apr 1, 2004)

Hey if all the lierals say I dont need 12+1 rounds, why do they need suv's? 
Back on topic. I wanted to get one just to have one, I think they're great. I'm just afraid to go to my CLEO to ask. Dont want to get labled, ya know?


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

hey people make mistakes, drive on.



cjmajor said:


> Excuse me for asking a "stupid" question. I guess i am looking to far into it


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## EOD1 (Mar 11, 2004)

I still say jason wants to get a job in the Post Office !!! hey we should have a mass cops shoot & BBQ!!


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

Hey I would be up for that, we could have it at my range
http://www.cqbarms.com/photos/thumbnails.php?album=54

http://www.cqbarms.com/photos/albums/userpics/10001/DSC00494.JPG


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## pcbme (May 2, 2006)

*Waiting for C&R FFL*

Regarding C&R, please correct me if my understanding is wrong:

(1) If a handgun appears in ATF C&R list, but not in Mass AG's list, a Mass resident with C&R and LTC-A can still "import" it from another state;

(2) A gun bought via C&R license must be registered with ATF "bound book" and Mass Form F.A. 10.

I am applying a C&R -- sent the application out last week. Could someone tell me usually how long I have to wait ATF to process it?


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## JoninNH (Jan 29, 2004)

I got my C&R in less then three weeks.


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## SOT (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: Waiting for C&R FFL*

1. Yes. The lists ONLY apply to dealers at retail sales. It does not apply to a licensee who is not a dealer. That being said, many places won't sell C&R to MA...because MA is known to be a PITA.

2. It must be added to the bound book. As to the FA-10. Some say yes, some say no. 
Essentially you are a licensee, not a person when using the FFL. As a dealer I do not list every gun that comes into my inventory on an FA-10 until I sell it. As the gun is not being sold out, one could say no FA-10. On the other hand the C&R is a "personal" FFL. There is a sale to you as a person who owns a license...so it is hard to say.



pcbme said:


> Regarding C&R, please correct me if my understanding is wrong:
> 
> (1) If a handgun appears in ATF C&R list, but not in Mass AG's list, a Mass resident with C&R and LTC-A can still "import" it from another state;
> 
> ...


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