# Carry weapon off duty



## Guest

This topic somehow found it's way into "Patrol: Under 21 Cops". It is an interesting one. What are your views and personal experiences on the subject of carrying off duty? Personally, I still have not made up my mind. The pro and con sides have many valid points. What are the various Dept. policies?


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## mpd61

Well..........
If you're 21 with a class A LTC, the issue is one of personal choice.
I know of lots of people who carry a Badge/I.D. off-duty but never a firearm with it. Seems to me that is a more interesting point.

I could carry anything from Smith M332 (.32 H&amp;R Mag) to Glock 23, to a Smith M58 (.41 Mag) But I hardly ever do. I think I carry off-duty maybe twice a year. I meet my daughter at T-station at nights when she comes home from college every so often. 

I remember some previous threads in which some advocate not carrying badges/I.D.s (Badges?.......we don't need no stinkin badges!!!!!!!) off-duty.
I think I'll start carrying more often though.
:rock:


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## Pancakeman

If you go drinking don't carry off duty it causes problems due to impairment.

If you are responsible than carry. My prefered weapon of choice is the beretta .380 I just found another for concealment is the new Springfied XP 3" 9MM.

Shame on the recidivist who wants to play with off duty police officers. "I don't play well with others"


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## q5_po

Off duty gun= Kimber Pro Carry II .45!

On duty F/T job= Beretta 92D Centerion 9mm

On duty P/T job= Glock 23 .40


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## DODK911

On Duty: Beretta 92F

Off Duty: Beretta 92F(personal) or Tourus PT111


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## CampusOfficer

On Duty: Taken away from us, but it was a Glock 27, .40 caliber. ](*,) 

Off-duty: .40 Caliber H&amp;K USP compact


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## union1

As far as unarmed departments off duty officers, I hope they dont carry do they?


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## mpd61

union1 said:


> As far as unarmed departments off duty officers, I hope they dont carry do they?


Why not if they have an A LTC?
:?


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## union1

Because the want and desire to pull that weapon out and defend the persons actions as "I am a Police Officer" is almost a certainty.... so its best to just not have one.

On Duty - Can of O.C., Baton and keys

Off Duty - my mind!

Isnt that funny!


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## mpd61

union1 said:


> Because the want and desire to pull that weapon out and defend the persons actions as "I am a Police Officer" is almost a certainty.... so its best to just not have one.


Ahhh Union,

1. Thats a pretty broad brush you're painting folks with!
2. Imagine being in a situation as an off-duty cop and being saved by a citizen with an LTC _*and*_ a gun, because it was best that you "just not have one"

Where are you coming from dude?
:shock:


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## John J

My Glock 27 is like my american express card, I never leave home without it.


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## John J

union1 said:


> Because the want and desire to pull that weapon out and defend the persons actions as "I am a Police Officer" is almost a certainty.... so its best to just not have one.


So let me get this straight, You are a police officer, but you think that it is better to not carry off duty? Whether or not your department is armed makes no difference when you carry off duty as long as your actions are justified. I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.


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## union1

Im gonna leave this one here. Good luck with your thread..


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## Killjoy

I carry all the time, with the exceptions of airline travel and if I go out drinking. My thought is that if you carry a badge, carry a gun, it's just that simple. I don't know how many times I have heard stories from officers/troopers who don't carry off duty, yet ID themselves as such in one situation or another. What if you ID yourself to person, for one reason or another, and he's a felon who just robbed a liquor store and has a gun on him? Or he's just some mope who hates cops? I can think of thousands of reasons to carry a gun off duty and very few reasons not too. Several times off duty I have encountered dirtbags I've arrested who decided they had something to say to me. Well, I simply walked away rather than engage in a pointless arguement; but I had a gun on my hip in case he wanted to "take it up a notch". Troopers I work with have told me that they don't carry off duty because "they wouldn't want to endanger their family." Endanger their family? Just because you carry, it certainly doesn't mean you HAVE to respond to a situation. What if someone threatens your family and you have nothing but your tin in your back pocket? I would say that endangers your family more than carrying a piece. I've said it before; I go out of my way to avoid trouble off duty. The best thing I can do off duty is if I'm observing some sort of crime to get on my cell and call the ON DUTY police. But with that said, if some shithead decides to knife his girlfriend in front of me in downtown Boston; he's getting .45 caliber lead for his trouble. I carry only to PROTECT MY LIFE OR THE LIVES OF OTHERS FROM IMMINENT DEADLY HARM. Cops who get in trouble carrying off duty are usually the idiots who show off their piece by letting their jacket "accidently" slide up; probably to show how tough they are. Or the morons who go out and toss a few back then let off a few rounds to wake up the neighborhood. Or, most dangerously, go out off duty, hoping to get "into the shit" (usually new officers). Remember, off duty you have no radio to call for backup, vest for protection, or uniform to identify who you are. You are just as likely to get shot by a cop than a criminal. The reasons cops give for why they don't carry are numerous, but probably it comes down to laziness and cheapness. Most duty guns are too big for practical conceal carry, and most cops are too cheap to buy a small carry gun. Quality holsters are also quite pricey (but well worth it). Laziness refers to the fact that most cops don't even want to go through the "trouble" of carrying. It takes me perhaps an extra 30 seconds to thread a holster and put a gun on. Still, there is some hope; more and more Troopers in my barracks have been coming to me asking what they should carry off duty. Perhaps in a post 9-11 world, security has become more of a real concern. And since everyone else is posting what they carry, here's my personal choices:

Hot weather : S&amp;W Airweight Bodyguard loaded with .38+P Winchester 125 grain Silvertips
Cold weather : Kimber Compact or Sig Sauer P245 loaded with .45 ACP Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shoks
Duty : Sig Sauer P226 loaded with .40 S&amp;W Winchester 180 grain SXT.


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## John J

union1 said:


> Im gonna leave this one here. Good luck with your thread..


 Wow, Rob is that all you have to say? :roll: You know what they say, if you can't take the heat.............


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## Guest

I agree with JohnJ on this one. You never really need a gun until you need one real bad. You go to all the pain &amp; expense to become a cop for 8 hours out of your day but the scumbags we lock up are scumbags 24/7/365.

Nothing like pushing the baby stroller with the wife &amp; kids down the South Shore Plaza when some dirtball recognizes you and asks "Offi-sa' waddap?" After the confrontation, what is LOMAC supposed to do? Take his Smokey hat off and get those rubber gloves on to staunch the flow of blood from my body? No way in on Gods Green Earth will that ever happen to me. 

My gun is for mine &amp; my familys protection. It's not meant to be shown off or accidentally seen. You carry a badge in your wallet, you should carry a gun as well. Just my opinion.


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## Macop

When i leave the house I always have a badge and gun, the only exception is when im going out drinking.

On duty Sig P229 or Sig P239 (details) AR-15 or Benelli shotgun for patrol rifles
Off duty Glock 27


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## CampusOfficer

union1 said:


> Because the want and desire to pull that weapon out and defend the persons actions as "I am a Police Officer" is almost a certainty....


I have NO want or desire to pull my weapon out ever (off-duty), unless my/my family's life is in IMMINENT danger. My actions would not be defended as "I am a Police Officer," because when I am not off duty, no one needs to know my occupation. I don't flaunt it. Unless the circumstance is such that I can not leave the area, I do not get involved. Call the on-duty police, let them do the job that they are being paid to do (as said previously).



union1 said:


> so its best to just not have one.


Until you NEED one!!

Thats my :2c:


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## ecpd402

I agree with CampusOfficer when im off duty im a regular citizen, But I also agree with the fact that the one time you don't carry off duty is the time you may need it. Guess I can't take common ground on this topic


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## mazz

Kmf294,

You are a shit magnet on/off duty. Hope you have unlimited direct connect on that Nextel :!: 

Hope the new job is going well.


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## Finding Nemo

to correct campus officer; on duty (guns were taken away) glock 22 not 27

off duty glock 19 or S &amp; W 649 2 1/2 inch .38 revolver.

as i was told in the academy by my instructors " you do not have to carry off duty, but I strongly Suggest that you do". 
I carry to protect myself, my wife and my children.


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## union1

Actualy JohnJ.. I've really got nothing good to say therefore im chosing not to participate in this thread any longer. Otherwise Ill end up starting a whole new shitstorm with what I would really like to say. 

I'm also not knocking anyone who wants to carry off duty. I just chose not to as I really dont see the reason for it. I will steal a quote from someone who I will leave anonymous " Just call the Boston Police" :roll:

Incase you need this spelled out: its sarcasm.


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## MVS

Good point John J... A POLICE OFFICER is a POLICE OFFICER regardless of whether or not they carry on duty. As long as they have an LTC they should carry off duty (if they want to).... and most have training and/or previous relevent experience. Besides it's not about being a "POLICE OFFICER" for carrying a gun off duty, its for safety. All those dirtbags you busted... someday one/some of them could come back and haunt you & try to "turn it up a notch". It's not about looking for "work" off-duty, its about protecting you and your family's safety.

My strong statement:
I wouldn't hesistate to protect my family, would you? But if you don't have a gun, what would you do if a creep starts "poppin' some caps" as he screams "you gonna pay"? 
1)Flash your badge and say "stop"? You could, but I don't think he'll change his mind...
2)Throw your Nextel at him like a girl and run like hell? Doubt you would make it very far...
3)Take a bullet for the wife? probably....
*But what about the next 9 Bullets the scumbag has left?*


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## MVS

Union1 wrote:


> " Just call the Boston Police"


 :roll: 
LOL...Don't hold your breath.... you know, the fast response time they have. :sl:


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## Muggsy09

I never leave home without it off duty. I also carry into work but have to leave it in my locker on duty, we aren't armed. I don't take it out of state either....yet....


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## ryan933

I think off-duty carry is a very good idea for obvious reasons. I will also say that off-duty cops are not the only people capable\worthy of carrying firearms(not that anyone has suggested otherwise, just my .02).

Patrick Henry: 
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

John Adams: 
"Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense."

Samuel Adams: 
"Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life, secondly to liberty, thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can."

Ryan


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## John J

union1 said:


> Actualy JohnJ.. I've really got nothing good to say therefore im chosing not to participate in this thread any longer. Otherwise Ill end up starting a whole new shitstorm with what I would really like to say.


Well lets have it, what would you really like to say? Why hold back? 
For a while there you were really pushing for your department to be armed, you obviously see the need for it so why would you choose not to carry off duty?


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## eglock72

*Off Duty Carry*

For myself I always carry a firearm(Glock 23) off duty any where I go except when I go out to have a few drinks with my pals. Carrying a firearm off duty is a persoanl choice reguardless of dept. policys or not. For myself I carry even if I going down to the local corner store to get some milk for my infant son. My thinking is this, rather be judged by twelve than carried by six. Also rather have it and not need it, than need it and not have it.

Another point on this topic is the training you conduct with that off duty weapon. Does the person shoot alot and practice concealed carry draw and dire firing excersies. And while at the range on your day off do you practice the different types of shooting techniques. Remember that shooting senarios are always different. While at the range do you think of what type of cover and concealment you will use if the shit hits the fan.

Remember train as you fight, and fight as you would train. Just my two cents worth on this topic.


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## q5_po

I forgot one. In reallt hot weather, I have one of the new Smith Titaniam .38's with Cor-bon +p+. and the .45 has Ranger SXT's.

To quote one of my estime Sgt's from my P/T gig "Be nice, be courtious, but have a plan to take out everyone that you meet!".

I never interject myself into a situation when I'm not on duty. However comma, How many times have you seen a lone cruiser with a car stop in the middle of nowhere? I have many nights. I usually slow down and tin and ask if they are all set. 90% of the time they say thanks and I go on my way. Every once and a while they ask if I can hang for a sec. till their back up arrives. Not a problem, If anything goes down I'm ready. Any yes, I qualified with all off-duty guns too.


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## MVS

eglock72


> My thinking is this, rather be judged by twelve than carried by six.


Good line!


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## mpd61

HousingCop said:


> I agree with JohnJ on this one. You never really need a gun until you need one real bad. You go to all the pain & expense to become a cop for 8 hours out of your day but the scumbags we lock up are scumbags 24/7/365.
> 
> My gun is for mine & my familys protection. It's not meant to be shown off or accidentally seen. You carry a badge in your wallet, you should carry a gun as well. Just my opinion.


Right on Housing! Another pearl-of-wisdom! Rare! but a pearl none the less!
:wink: :thumbup:

Union is a PUSSY!


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## John J

mpd61 said:


> Union is a PUSSY!


LMFAO :L:


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## union1

Union may be a pussy, but Union lasted more than 3 weeks of McCabe! :L:


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## dekk

My job requires us to be armed at all times. If were caught in a crime scene and we are found not to be armed we could take a hit from the job.

I live in Brooklyn NY so I even take the trash out with my jammy tucked in my drawers.


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## GARDA

*Re: Off Duty Carry*



eglock72 said:


> Another point on this topic is the training you conduct with that off duty weapon. Remember train as you fight, and fight as you would train. Just my two cents worth on this topic.


Indeed, eglock72! More than two cents worth of advice here...and a very pertinent point. My former department's policy required that all members who wished to carry a back-up weapon on-duty must qualify with it at the range, along with one's service weapon. (Also, there was a minimum caliber requirement of no less than .32 cal.) Off duty carry was optional, but think about the improved liability protection-aspect for both member and dept. if you chose to carry off-duty with a weapon that you have both trained and qualified with regularly on the job. Not a bad idea.

My off duty carry decisions have historically been dictated by that little voice inside us all which speaks up before stepping out for the night, or by that sixth sense we sometimes feel that trouble might find us. I know what your thinking, I'm not very religious about carrying off-duty, it's true. Fortunately, I have not yet needed Roscoe when I've had it with me (Glock 27/.40 cal.), but admittedly, on some occasions I have missed the insurance it provides when I've left it at home.


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## csauce30

I have to chime in here. I am an UNARMED hospital cop, but I do however carry off duty on occasion. Mostly due to the fact that I routinely seize fairly large amounts of narcotics from our local shitbags here in china town. We also routinely arrest the repeat offenders who are constantly shooting up, smoking crack, and banging hookers in our bathrooms, park, and garage. The best part is that as anyone working in this area can attest to, you cant walk around any given street corner without running into a junkie or dealer that youve locked up or taken his dope. So, when Im in town with my pregnant wife, or Im riding the T, or when Im walking to my car after work, there is a good chance that I will run into someone who remembers my face as being the last one that took his dope, or put handcuffs on him. It happens on a regular basis. Thus my justification for carrying a handgun. I think that any reasonable person possessing a Class A LTC should make his/her own decision regarding carrying. For the record, as most everyone has stated, I would much rather avoid a situation and call the police, than find myself in the middle of it. Thats only common sense. Oh...and as someone else stated...


> Sig Sauer P245 loaded with .45 ACP Federal 230 grain Hydra-Shoks


My setup as well...


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## Guest

union1 said:


> Union may be a pussy, but Union lasted more than 3 weeks of McCabe! :L:


I bet when you were in construction, you left your nail-gun at the job site you pussy!
:wink:


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## Brian823

*Off Duty Carry*

My friend gets out of the academy asks his dad (old school veteran cop)..."Dad, all the guys are getting off-duty guns, what should I carry?" His father advises him, "get a roll of dimes....if you see anything happen, call the police." (back when you could make a phone call for $0.10.)

I carry an airlite smith (or a glock). For self defense / defense of others [absolute last resort.] I wouldn't attempt to act unless I absolutely had to - just be a good witness.

Like a Street Survival instructor said...if you don't want to carry off-duty, thats ok...just remember...if you need your gun off-duty, you probably REALLY need it.


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## John J

union1 said:


> Union may be a pussy, but Union lasted more than 3 weeks of McCabe! :L:


If I see a sinking ship I get the hell off. I would rather not be a police officer than deal with the bullshit at that department. You would have to be insane to stay there for two or three years. Oh wait how long have you been there Rob? :lol:


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## John J

NACop said:


> union1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Union may be a pussy, but Union lasted more than 3 weeks of McCabe! :L:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet when you were in construction, you left your nail-gun at the job site you pussy!
> :wink:
Click to expand...

No they wouldn't give him a gun either. :lol:


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## cjm74

Gentlemen &amp; Ladies,
I remind you that people we interact with 9 out of 10 times remember our faces. They remember how they were treated and what was the end result of our interaction. We are all trained professionals who know that our weapons are our tools to do the job. It's a necessity! You may be off the clock while off duty ,but your still sworn by the state to serve and protect. Remember never be "The Blue Caneary" always protect you and your loved ones. Have a great new year &amp; Stay Safe


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## mikefo

Hi Everyone,

I've been carrying a weapon for self defense since I was 18. Never had to shoot at anyone in thirty years. But I still won't leave home without it. I don't have a preference in weapons but carry in conjunction with the way I dress. Sometimes as small as a derringer 38+P to a Sig 239 in 40 or as big as my Berretta. I don't feel comfortable with out one. Better safe than sorry.

Wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Mike


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## union1

John J said:


> NACop said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> union1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Union may be a pussy, but Union lasted more than 3 weeks of McCabe! :L:
> 
> 
> 
> I bet when you were in construction, you left your nail-gun at the job site you pussy!
> :wink:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No they wouldn't give him a gun either. :lol:
Click to expand...

I tell you what, Real men swung hammers when I did it. And im getting my second Nail - GUN this coming sunday.

As far as not having a gun, SIG 228 and Raven .25. I just happen to not be a firarms advocate and DONT believe that guns should be as widespread as they are therefor mine SIT in my safe only to come out when I go to the range.

I think only Municipal, State, Federal, and Full time Academy trained officers should carry off duty. I know too many people "many from my own dept" who dont have the knowlege of gun retention to safely carry that weapon. I really dont feel like being in that 7/11 when its getting robbed when there is an off duty Campus Police Officer who does not have proper training in retention and when he pulls the gun me or my family get's shot because of his/her lack of training.

Im not going to appoligize for my cynicism here since I have seen an ACTUAL police officer "campus" request to look at anothers weapon (Off Duty) and began to point it at other officers, then began looking down the goddamn barel asking if its loaded!

:baaa:

Lets start bashing my oppinions now!


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## John J

union1 said:


> Actualy JohnJ.. I've really got nothing good to say therefore im chosing not to participate in this thread any longer.


I knew you couldn't hold out for long.


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## John J

union1 said:


> Im not going to appoligize for my cynicism here since I have seen an ACTUAL police officer "campus" request to look at anothers weapon (Off Duty) and began to point it at other officers, then began looking down the goddamn barel asking if its loaded!


He must have been from your department. :lol:


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## Killjoy

Ladies, please...some people want to read more than your lovers quarrel.


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## cjm74

Union,
Don't know where you work, but the dept I work for has weapon qualification w/ the MBTA and one of our Sgts is a firearm instructor.We frequently visit the range. The majority of our officers are academy trained. In closing, I feel extremely confident with carrying a firearm as do many of my brothers &amp; sisters on this site. Don't know 2 many cops or victims that would deny assistance if their in the "Glue", because of where you work. :2c:


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## union1

cjm74 said:


> Union,
> Don't know where you work, but the dept I work for has weapon qualification w/ the MBTA and one of our Sgts is a firearm instructor.We frequently visit the range. The majority of our officers are academy trained. In closing, I feel extremely confident with carrying a firearm as do many of my brothers & sisters on this site. Don't know 2 many cops or victims that would deny assistance if their in the "Glue", because of where you work. :2c:


Hey CJ.. I restate my oppinion, Full time Academy trained and Federal academy trained. JohnJ AND ECPD402 Can attest to the officer/s I am talking about carrying weapons off duty calling himself/themselves Police Officers. Ide rather risk getting shot.


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## mpd61

Union1 says;
As far as not having a gun, SIG 228 and Raven .25. I just happen to not be a firarms advocate and DONT believe that guns should be as widespread as they are therefor mine SIT in my safe only to come out when I go to the range.

I think only Municipal, State, Federal, and Full time Academy trained officers should carry off duty. I know too many people "many from my own dept" who dont have the knowlege of gun retention to safely carry that weapon. I really dont feel like being in that 7/11 when its getting robbed when there is an off duty Campus Police Officer who does not have proper training in retention and when he pulls the gun me or my family get's shot because of his/her lack of training.

Im not going to appoligize for my cynicism here since I have seen an ACTUAL police officer "campus" request to look at anothers weapon (Off Duty) and began to point it at other officers, then began looking down the goddamn barel asking if its loaded!

:baaa:

Lets start bashing my oppinions now![/quote]

Oh _____!
You make it too easy. There is no need to bash your opinions.
It's your assinine PREJUDICES that elicit nausea!
:uc:

Again you've painted an entire class (campus cops) with a broad and negative brush. I'm glad you're enlightened enough to have a nice Sig 228. I can't fathom the raven though......perhaps it is to sit on, fire and clean out the impaction in your colon. Maybe you should do that, you might think clearer!
:shock:


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## MVS

Ease up on some of the Campus PO's... Many have been Police Officers with plenty of firearms training. Whether they worked Locally, Fed, or out of state.

For the guys that lack the training, they should look into getting some either with the assistance of their Campus dept. or on their own.

Take your training into your own hands...


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## MiamiVice

well on the original topic, I carry about 40% of the time. My two carry guns are a kelTec p-11 9mm, or a beretta .25 tomcat. But since most of the time before work involves the gym and errands, and post work involves miller lite, I usually don't have one with me. 

And if I am going someplace particuarlly nasty, I upgrade to my Glock 23.




Ken


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## Guest

John J said:


> union1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Im not going to appoligize for my cynicism here since I have seen an ACTUAL police officer "campus" request to look at anothers weapon (Off Duty) and began to point it at other officers, then began looking down the goddamn barel asking if its loaded!
> 
> 
> 
> He must have been from your department. :lol:
Click to expand...

Union,
You and half your department must be pussies, cuz I would have given that guy a tour of the station by his balls for pointing a weapon at others!
:shock:

WTF?


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## DODK911

NACOP I second that one, or atleast a SMACK, to UNF%CK himself!

Stay Safe.


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## John J

DODK911 said:


> NACOP I second that one, or atleast a SMACK, to UNF%CK himself!
> 
> Stay Safe.


There are a few on that department that could use a smack. :L:


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## Pancakeman

TO:RPD931

RESPONSE TIME BPD?? (BOSTON)

BE IN THE SH*T.... THAN QUESTION THE REPONSE TIME......DON'T SIT BACK AND MONDAY MORNING QUARTER BACK............YOUR REMARK REFLECTS YOUR NOT A WORKING COP OR MAYBE NOT EVEN A COP AT ALL.........ONE MILLION PEOPLE OR MORE VISIT BOSTON EACH DAY......THE JOB GETS DONE.......

BEING A COP IN BOSTON IS LIKE BEING IN A CIRCUS THAT NEVER LEAVES TOWN


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## biged86

Before joining the State Police, I was a local cop in my hometown for 4 +/- years. At first I didnt carry off duty. After speaking with some of my fellow locals at roll call, someone brought in a LE magazine (dont rememeber the name) that had a very interesting story. 

An off duty cop who worked in his hometown was out shopping off duty without his firearm. He went into a convenience store and while inside, the store was robbed. The clerk, recognizing the off duty officer as a police officer, yelled "I'm being robbed, you're a cop, do something." The robber then shot the unarmed off duty cop.

Since seeing that article, I now carry off duty 90% of the time. I usually have it with me on trips to Home Depot, the supermarket, movie theater, etc. The only time I definately dont have it is if I am having a few frosty ones. 

At the local PD, we were issued Sig P229s. Since I am a big guy and that is a medium size weapon, I could hide that well pretty much year-round. Now I carry my issued P226. It is a bit bigger but not hard to conceal this time of year. (if anyone has something nice and small for sale in a size .40 let me know)

Also, I got a NH LTC just in case I should wander over the border (my community is a border town).


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## michaelbos

I remember seeing a memo or something around Nov of 2001 where they were advising (KEY WORD) Police officers who were carrying off duty to wear their badges on a chain around thier neck in case a terrorist incident, where they were at that given time, so to quickly ID themselves at the scene if they were force to activate themselves. I guess an opition of taking your wallet out and holding your badge. It made sense at the time due to what was going on.


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## sempergumby

I would rather carry and not need it. Its just that simple for me.


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## 209

On/Off: Glock 23

Ill tell you what if it comes out i know i better have a damn good reason for it. I would much rather spray someone, but if it comes down to it you gotta do what you gotta do.


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## capepd

I carry my Glock 27 off-duty and as a backup gun on-duty....

The question is..."Are you a sheepdog...or a sheep"?

Some of you will know what that means....

Also, let me add this, if your a properly trained police officer (I mean a real police officer...), then you absolutely should have no problem carrying a firearm off-duty. If you don't feel safe doing that, then you lack skills in your ability to do the job and make intelligent decisions about using the tools you are trained in.

One of the problems are these part-timers or sheriffs with no real police experience and a minimal amount of training sounding off on this issue. If your not trained...or your not a cop, then leave your gun at home. Your probably only going to get yourself hurt or fired.

Also, if you work for a (ahem) "police department" that doesn't allow you to carry a gun but makes you wear a uniform..you should quit that job tomorrow. Not only is it dangerous...its stupid.


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## Irish Wampanoag

I am a fake cop but I play a real one when I go to work. I guess thats why I only carry a Seecamp 32 small and compact. The only problem is if I ever had to use it the suspect/s probably laugh at me because it looks a cigarette lighter!!!


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## stm4710

When the state finally mails my LTC, I plan on carrying off duty.

Probally a Glock 23 since that is my side arm on duty , cause I train with it and can load/shoot it blind. Maybe a small S&W .38 for those warmer summer evenings when I just want to relax.



> Also, if you work for a (ahem) "police department" that doesn't allow you to carry a gun but makes you wear a uniform..you should quit that job tomorrow. Not only is it dangerous...its stupid.


 Amen tothat Capepd!!!! I keep telling a buddy of mine at MGH pd, dont bring pepper spray to a knife fight.


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## topcop14

stm4710 said:


> When the state finally mails my LTC, I plan on carrying off duty.
> 
> Probally a Glock 23 since that is my side arm on duty , cause I train with it and can load/shoot it blind. Maybe a small S&W .38 for those warmer summer evenings when I just want to relax.
> 
> Amen tothat Capepd!!!! I keep telling a buddy of mine at MGH pd, dont bring pepper spray to a knife fight.


Ok let me get this strait, you are carry a glock 23 on duty, but you don't carry off duty because you don't have a LTC. If you are a cop you don't need a LTC to carry.


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## stm4710

I was told by my superior I can only carry while on duty. The gun is kept at the station.


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## kttref

stm4710 said:


> I was told by my superior I can only carry while on duty. The gun is kept at the station.


That seems dangerous to me.


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## Killjoy

Nothing like trust in your officers...did the chief issue you a big-wheel for patrol?


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## Irish Wampanoag

stm4710 said:


> I was told by my superior I can only carry while on duty. The gun is kept at the station.


 R/Os suck


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## kttref

Anyone have any of the following:

S&W
*Model 638 Revolver*
 *Model 642 Revolver*
*Model 37 Revolver*
*Model 637 Revolver*
*Model 442 Revolver*


If so, what do you think? I'm most likely going to purchase one of these for off-duty, just want some feedback.


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## SOT

Ya know this is one of the most f'd up stories I have ever heard. By F'd up I mean 
1. What department wouldn't let their officer carry off duty on their badge?
2. Why the hell are they making you wait for your LTC and what happens if restricted?

Jesus you're a cop for christ sakes...most of us want more cops on the street on or off duty carrying. Did they miss the freaking memo about the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act?



stm4710 said:


> I was told by my superior I can only carry while on duty. The gun is kept at the station.


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## SOT

I have just about all of them, but by far the fav is the 638. It's light ans small and easy to coceal..When loaded ahs a enough wieght for recoil...I use +p ammo in it.
I like the fact that it has the partialy concealed hammer. If your out this way you can try it or most of them out.



kttref said:


> Anyone have any of the following:
> 
> S&W
> *Model 638 Revolver*
> *Model 642 Revolver*
> *Model 37 Revolver*
> *Model 637 Revolver*
> *Model 442 Revolver*
> 
> 
> If so, what do you think? I'm most likely going to purchase one of these for off-duty, just want some feedback.


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## Killjoy

The Smith & Wesson 638 is also my "summer carry" gun....it's lightweight, compact, and fairly powerful. I carry it in a a Desantis mini slide a Bianchi Speed Strip with spare rounds in my pocket completes my ensemble.


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## stm4710

SOT_II said:


> Ya know this is one of the most f'd up stories I have ever heard. By F'd up I mean
> 1. What department wouldn't let their officer carry off duty on their badge?
> 2. Why the hell are they making you wait for your LTC and what happens if restricted?
> 
> Jesus you're a cop for christ sakes...most of us want more cops on the street on or off duty carrying. Did they miss the freaking memo about the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act?


Whats even more spectacular is I got my class A ltc with a NO CONCEALED CARRY restriction. Thats after a letter's from both LE departments and squeaky clean record. Yet a guy from Saugus that drives a chair car at the EMS job has 3 Misdemeanors and gets a unrestriced class A ltc. My hometown said its all I need for my purposes........ so I basicly got a glorified class B.

New Hampshire, ye look better and better everyday!!!!


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## SOT

A class B would not allow you to own high capacity handguns...just saying....but yeah that F' up.
One option is that you can get your license in the town you live OR the town you work in.
Theory is I would get it at the dapertent here you work...plus some towns have adopted a "local option" whereby the LTC is free to police officers.



stm4710 said:


> Whats even more spectacular is I got my class A ltc with a NO CONCEALED CARRY restriction. Thats after a letter's from both LE departments and squeaky clean record. Yet a guy from Saugus that drives a chair car at the EMS job has 3 Misdemeanors and gets a unrestriced class A ltc. My hometown said its all I need for my purposes........ so I basicly got a glorified class B.
> 
> New Hampshire, ye look better and better everyday!!!!


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## sh460

Just thought I would put my 2 cent too...
My thought on the subject is whether your in law enforcement or not, ANYONE carrying a firearm should have the appropriate training. by appropriate training I mean that the individual should be educated on proper weapon retention, use of force, and regulary visit a range. The citizen with a LTC and basic hangun safety course is definetely in my opinion Not Suitable to conceal carry. in my opinion the State needs to re-evaluate and make higher standards for conceal carry. Most not all people involved in an "off Duty" situation tend to bring it upon themselves by trying to be supercop instead of involving the On duty officers, although I do understand that some are beyond their control. They also tend not to de-escalate a situation. Remember...most people involved in a shooting incident get shot or killed by their own weapon. Sad but true.
Myself, I carry a Glock26 and a small can of O.C. remember the "Use of Force Continuum" and DT. 
To all On or Off duty be safe..that's what count's!!

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/lawenforcement/policeintegrity/chapter1.htm


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## REILEYDOG

stm4710 said:


> I was told by my superior I can only carry while on duty. The gun is kept at the station.


Do you drive to work in uniform unarmed? If so - you might want to change your routine.


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## SOT

Yes I remember reading this in the constitution. Police are the only ones allowed to own and carry guns.



sh460 said:


> Just thought I would put my 2 cent too...
> My thought on the subject is whether your in law enforcement or not, ANYONE carrying a firearm should have the appropriate training. by appropriate training I mean that the individual should be educated on proper weapon retention, use of force, and regulary visit a range. The citizen with a LTC and basic hangun safety course is definetely in my opinion Not Suitable to conceal carry. in my opinion the State needs to re-evaluate and make higher standards for conceal carry. Most not all people involved in an "off Duty" situation tend to bring it upon themselves by trying to be supercop instead of involving the On duty officers, although I do understand that some are beyond their control. They also tend not to de-escalate a situation. Remember...most people involved in a shooting incident get shot or killed by their own weapon. Sad but true.
> Myself, I carry a Glock26 and a small can of O.C. remember the "Use of Force Continuum" and DT.
> To all On or Off duty be safe..that's what count's!!
> 
> http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/lawenforcement/policeintegrity/chapter1.htm


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## Killjoy

> The citizen with a LTC and basic hangun safety course is definetely in my opinion Not Suitable to conceal carry. in my opinion the State needs to re-evaluate and make higher standards for conceal carry.


While I do agree that the regular LTC course is not really sufficiant to train people in all of the tactical aspects of concealed carry, I'm not convinced that keeping firearms from people is any solution. If someone is genuninely interested, there are number of firearms training courses available.



> Remember...most people involved in a shooting incident get shot or killed by their own weapon.


I also don't agree with the above statement...it reeks of gun banning propaganda...according to consumer safety statistics, many more children a year drown in pools then are killed by privately owned guns..but no one calls for the banning of pools.


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## SPINMASS

> I also don't agree with the above statement...it reeks of gun banning propaganda...according to consumer safety statistics, many more children a year drown in pools then are killed by privately owned guns..but no one calls for the banning of pools.


Although I have been wrong once or twice, I believe what he was attempting to say was that when a shooting occurs it usually involves that persons personal weapon. I took it as reference to Officer Involved Shootings and Lay persons being disarmed by attackers not really kids with daddies gun.


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## Killjoy

> Although I have been wrong once or twice, I believe what he was attempting to say was that when a shooting occurs it usually involves that persons personal weapon. I took it as reference to Officer Involved Shootings and Lay persons being disarmed by attackers not really kids with daddies gun.


Well, maybe we should all just disarm like Bobbies. The second amendment is more than just about militias and fighting the invading hordes; its about self determination. It says that as a citizen of this country I have the right to defend myself...in many countries, you have no right to self defense, your only recourse it to run away. Countries that monopolize the right of defense take a chunk of their people's civil liberties away. Unfortunately it seems that in this state, many towns and cities use the process of obtaining a LTC as a de facto ban on possession of firearms, a tactic to reduce violence that has never worked. Look to the blood-drenched streets of Boston, then try to walk into Boston PD and beg for a LTC...they'll laugh you out the door.


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## SOT

He was trying to quote a false statistic...

That people that try and defend themselves are more often killed by their own gun than not. Which is then twisted into people who try and defend themselves, end up dead more often than not.

1. The actual statistic is a manipulated "fact" from the anti-gun lobby, they even include criminal actions in the account. An example would be a drug dealer "defending himself" from another drug dealer and being shot by his own weapon.

2. If it actually happens, consider that these people were already in a position where they felt they needed a gun to protect themselves.

3. Consider how many people that do defend themselves and are "the champions" of the event, a much higher percentage survive than are killed (by their own weapons or that of the bad guy).



SPINMASS said:


> Although I have been wrong once or twice, I believe what he was attempting to say was that when a shooting occurs it usually involves that persons personal weapon. I took it as reference to Officer Involved Shootings and Lay persons being disarmed by attackers not really kids with daddies gun.


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## Belker

I am a firm believer in better to have and not need than need and not have. Most shit bags and even the common citizen can pick out a police officer out of a crowd(State,Local. University etc.) So I would agree and have it with you off duty.
On Duty Sig 226 DAK 40. Cal.
Off Duty Glock 27


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## Irish Wampanoag

SOT_II said:


> A class B would not allow you to own high capacity handguns...just saying....but yeah that F' up.
> 
> Class B would also restrict you from carrying a firearm on your person in a MV.??????? WTF


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## justanotherparatrooper

About 10 years ago I was at a mall in NH with a good friend and his family. He was a full time sworn officer.He didnt like carrying a weapon off duty . Werre hanging out at the food court and this guy is eyeing us for a good 3o minutes. He finally comes up to Ted and ask him where he knows him from. Ted tells him from the jail (he had arrested him for A&B with a weapon about a year earlier).The guy says "Oh yeah, what were you in for?". Next day Ted went and bought a off duty pistol and ALWAYS had it with him.


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## Inspector

Sig 40 cal, our issue is too big to carry off duty (even too big to wear under suit jacket...our usual attire) but that's another story. Policy says carry only weapon we qualify with....agency will allow altenative qualification with personal weapon but it is something I've done only once and it had to be done again every six months. As constant practice with personally bought ammo can get quite expensive I've returned to only carrying while working.


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## Guest

Anyone have a problem with their firearm when "taking a shit" ?


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## Mongo

Nahhh it is never up my bum.


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## Guest

DirtyHarry said:


> Anyone have a problem with their firearm when "taking a shit" ?


well there was this ONE time............ LOL


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## JoninNH

If she wanted to take a hot load in the mouth that badly...


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## Irish_Cop_In_Va

There are times I find it a pain in the arse to loop a holster on my belt and find a good shirt to put over me to conceal my weapon. Especially with the hot weather we get in VA it can be a real chore to carry off duty. But then I imagine myself driving down I-64 and seeing a Trooper or Deputy getting his ass handed to him and me pulling over to assist my brother with no defensive weapon whatsoever. When I'm on duty my main goal is to go home to my family very much alive and to ensure my fellow officers do the same. I have found since raising my right hand 5 years ago that as a Police Officer I'm never really off-duty, oh sure almost 100% of the time I'll be the best witness you ever could have if something happens in my presence off duty; however if life is imminent danger I have a moral obligation to intervene. I'm trained, I know the law, and I have a sense of Honor that I must uphold. So anytime I gripe about not being able to tuck in my shirt because I have to conceal my weapon, or not being able to wear shorts on 95 degree day because of my ankle holster - I just play that nightmare in my mind of that Trooper or Deputy needing my assistance and me responding with nothing but a pocket knife or a pen. We are cops 24/7/365 whether we like it or not, and whether on or off duty our first job is to come home to the wife and kiddies in one piece and help that Trooper or Deputy do the same.

On duty- S&W 4586
Off Duty- Rossi .357 Snub Nosed Revolver


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## topcop14

If one wants to carry off duty they can always find a way to do it. A couple different holsters and maby two different firearms make it possible for me to carry no matter what. I ussally carry a Glock 27 but if that dosn't work for whatever reason, I carry a smith .38 snuby. It has an aluminum frame, and a titanium cylender so its really light. Stoked with Speer gold dot +Ps carried in a unckle mikes or galco pocket holster.


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## Duff112

topcop14 said:


> If one wants to carry off duty they can always find a way to do it. A couple different holsters and maby two different firearms make it possible for me to carry no matter what. I ussally carry a Glock 27 but if that dosn't work for whatever reason, I carry a smith .38 snuby. It has an aluminum frame, and a titanium cylender so its really light. Stoked with Speer gold dot +Ps carried in a unckle mikes or galco pocket holster.


Topcop-

You carry a .38 snubnose in a pocket holster????

The girls must love you....


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## justanotherparatrooper

Ive used a crotch holster when I was in Ga. it hangs from the inside of your trousers on a couple of buttons. you access it by dropping your zipper.only small pistols though, I used a freedom arms .22 mag. beats carrying nothing .


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## Duff112

justanotherparatrooper said:


> Ive used a crotch holster when I was in Ga. it hangs from the inside of your trousers on a couple of buttons. you access it by dropping your zipper.only small pistols though, I used a freedom arms .22 mag. beats carrying nothing .


Para- I'm not gonna touch that one with a ten foot pole....I guess if it works for you..

I carry off duty a Beretta Model 950 BS .25 and I look like John Holmes when I've got shorts on.

I've actually had people ask me "What's that...thats not your wallet is it..."

Fortunately it's all been females


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## justanotherparatrooper

said ive used it, not prefered it.I like a glock 23 in a GOOD inside the waistband holster.


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## LA Copper

I know that the majority of our guys (myself included) carry off-duty. I don't go anywhere out here without my gun. We have quite a few off-duty shootings out here.
On-duty: Beretta 92F
Off-duty: Beretta 92F
I carry my duty weapon off-duty so that I can have more than a 5 shot .38 and so that I have a little more stopping power than a .38. While on duty, my back-up weapon is a Smith & Wesson 9mm, 9 shot. Never can have enough rounds, especially after the '92 Riots and the North Hollywood Bank Robbery and shootout.

When I'm visiting back there in Mass, I don't carry. I trust all of you guys to watch my back for me!


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## JoninNH

LA Copper said:


> When I'm visiting back there in Mass, I don't carry. I trust all of you guys to watch my back for me!


Why are you not carrying back here, Sarge???


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## LA Copper

I feel a heck of a lot safer back there than I do out here. Besides, it's a big hassle transporting it on the plane (in the luggage).


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## justanotherparatrooper

LA Copper said:


> I feel a heck of a lot safer back there than I do out here. Besides, it's a big hassle transporting it on the plane (in the luggage).


 Im shocked, you dont feel very safe in LA? I thought that was the land of enlightenment


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## LA Copper

justanotherparatrooper said:


> Im shocked, you dont feel very safe in LA? I thought that was the land of enlightenment


And it certainly is... I've been enlightened to the point that I know I wouldn't go anywhere without a gun!


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## Killjoy

I thought places that had a virtual ban on guns like NYC, LA, Detroit, Chicago and Washington DC were peaceful paradises....or thats what the gun-banners would have you think.


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## brkfldpo

I carry off duty. I have an assortment of holsters. Most of the time I carry my 40 cal. baby glock on my ankle. I also carry the same gun in a velcrove, nylon belly band. The gun fits right under the armpit. Its a good fit and very undetectable. The only problem would be trying to reach for it in a hurry. The ankle hold seems to be the best for me.


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