# Should I waste my time?



## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

I plan on taking the civil service exam in April, however I received a CWOF for A&B-Domestic 11 years ago. I had no prior record at the time and have had nothing since then.
My question is: Do I have any chance of becoming a Police officer and would it be a waste of time to even take the test? My Grandfather who was a Police officer tells me to still take it, but I think he's just being nice and trying not to crush my dream.
Thoughts?


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2013)

Unless you have a dime the size of an SUV, a domestic violence charge is the kiss of death if you want to be a police officer.


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## ecpd402 (Sep 18, 2002)

Try going in the military they may be less forgiving of your cwof and you can still serve your country


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

No chance. You're only option would be to become a passive aggressive dispatcher who carries a briefcase that says "Dispatchers Tell Cops Where To Go." Sadly, that is a real person.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

x


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## Pvt. Cowboy (Jan 26, 2005)

I have no record and I still feel its a waste of time...


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> I have no record and I still feel its a waste of time...


Hey, I just gave you a very generous management offer in the PMAG thread and you threw it away. Not everyone gets the big britches right out of the gate. Sometimes you've gotta self-dunk in murky entry level bowls before you get to the shiny ones in the spa.


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## Edmizer1 (Aug 27, 2006)

Consider the Fire Service.


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## niteowl1970 (Jul 7, 2009)

LGriffin said:


> Dispatchers Tell Cops Where To Go." Sadly, that is a real person.


I tell police officers where to go all the time. It's surprising that many seasoned officers are still clueless about safe places to order food while on duty in uniform. The smiling Greek guy at the pizza parlor where you just ordered your grinder from and greeted you as "hello my friend" and "boss" may not have your best interest in mind. This is especially true after unknown to you a colleague had just locked his son up on a domestic or an OUI the week before.


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

Q5-TPR said:


> I believe (correct me if I am wrong) but a CWOF is considered a coviction for the purposes of the Laudenberg Ammendment. Therefore, you are disqualified from EVER carrying a firearm, even in the military. Therefore, you are disqualified from being a police officer or joining the military.


Not true. I know that there are Chiefs who won't issue LTC with a CWOF, but I don't believe it's a dq.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Buy one of those 10 Million $ scratch tickets you have a better chance of winning than getting hired by any Department in the Commonwealth.


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## Code 3 (Dec 28, 2012)

Securitas


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

I appreciate the feedback, I recently looked up my CORI and it doesn't mention domestic per say, just A&B/Non Conviction. Not sure if I was reading it correctly though.
It was many years ago, but I thought it was labeled as domestic...
As far as being able to obtain an FID card, I was told a CWOF was not an automatic disqualification. As Harley said, the Chief could use his discretion to deny if he felt so inclined.
I've looked into having my charges esponged, but I'm told there is a better chance of Jesus performing a Karaoke medley of Black Sabbath tunes at Sunday service.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

There are a million guys in line that have had no contact with law enforcement, wont have to explain a damned thing on their bop and are ex military with combat experience..... you might as well take Corsairs advice and buy a lottery ticket.


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

I understand the logic of the situation. Why take candidate A with a CWOF, when we have candidates B-Z without one.
It's my own personal cunundrum, I know everyone says they "didn't do it" but...wait for it...I didn't commit the crime I was accussed of. I am otherwise a very strong candidate and have been encouraged by current officers to apply (not knowing my situation).I've been an outstanding member of my community and volunteer time with individuals with disabilities. I scored a 98 on the State Police exam years ago and made it to the interview process and physical testing. I chose not to go forward with the process for fear of being rejected due to the CWOF.
I have a very respectable job, but I have always felt like law enforcement was my calling and it's unfortunate that an unfounded accusation by a bitter ex has derailed that dream.

PS...your animated avatar thing is super distracting!!! lol


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Brian82 said:


> I appreciate the feedback, I recently looked up my CORI and it doesn't mention domestic per say, just A&B/Non Conviction. Not sure if I was reading it correctly though.
> It was many years ago, but I thought it was labeled as domestic...
> As far as being able to obtain an FID card, I was told a CWOF was not an automatic disqualification. As Harley said, the Chief could use his discretion to deny if he felt so inclined.
> I've looked into having my charges esponged, but I'm told there is a better chance of Jesus performing a Karaoke medley of Black Sabbath tunes at Sunday service.


Correct. Generally it will not denote domestic, as the charge itself is the same, but another statute lists particular sanctions for defendants and gives the police more power to arrest and other requirements we must adhere to.


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

Not to give you any false hope, but I know of others on the job with MUCH worse things than an 11 yr old CWOF'ed A&B, even being a domestic. I'll leave it at that.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Bloodhound said:


> Not to give you any false hope, but I know of others on the job with MUCH worse things than an 11 yr old CWOF'ed A&B, even being a domestic. I'll leave it at that.


We all know a felony conviction is the legal standard to disqualify a police candidate automatically, but I can't think of a more not-automatically-disqualifying event, but still is an almost-automatic disqualifier, than a domestic A&B charge.

Right before I left my last police job to take my current, I was assigned to do background investigations. If someone had a domestic A&B *charge* on their record, I recommended disqualifying them, and moved on.

It probably wasn't fair, but there are so many other candidates with clean records that are eager to take the job, that it's not necessary to take a chance on someone who has a crime of violence charge on their BOP.

There's good crazy with women, and bad crazy. If you can't tell the difference, you shouldn't be a cop.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Bloodhound said:


> Not to give you any false hope, but I know of others on the job with MUCH worse things than an 11 yr old CWOF'ed A&B, even being a domestic. I'll leave it at that.


You are right. Don't give him false hope. That Domestic A & B is a LTC disqualifier. As Such, he stands a snowball's chance in hell.


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## CPT Chaos (Mar 1, 2006)

Sorry, Your toast! Seek employment elsewhere! The world still needs bartenders and ditch diggers!


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## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

263FPD said:


> You are right. Don't give him false hope. That Domestic A & B is a LTC disqualifier. As Such, he stands a snowball's chance in hell.


As a conviction, yes. As a CWOF no, correct? .I'm saying it would be incredibly difficult, but not impossible.


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

I can tell good crazy from bad crazy...I wasn't even involved with or living with the individual at the time of the allegation. I left a month prior because she was superbad crazy!! I tried to make it work for 4 years for the sake of our child...I think some women tend to change when they think you won't go any where.

The irony of the situation is that a couple weeks prior I had driven to the Police station asking for guidance because she was calling me 30-40 times a day, harrassing me and following me in her car. I was told I could not file a report if there were no actual threats against me.The kicker is, the same officer I reported this to was the one that cuffed me and booked me when I was arrested!...I had a voicemail on my cell phone that I checked when I was released from the Police Department following up to see if the harrassment had stopped!!...uhmm nope it hadn't!!!!

It's an allegation that has absolutely derailed and jumbled a good part of my adult life, I mean I couldn't even coach my kids little league team without an open panel discussion with the board of directors..
I can tell you the domestic violence laws are in place for a very good reason, it's just unfortunate they can be manipulated so easily for evil...one positive is I was able to at least take a new skill set from the batterers program I was ordered to attend (I refused to get nothing from something I was paying for..lol)


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

CPT Chaos said:


> Sorry, Your toast! Seek employment elsewhere! The world still needs bartenders and ditch diggers!


 I don't "need" to seek employment. I have had the same job for the past 12 years. I "want" to pursue a job as a Police officer.....
Grandfather was policeman, uncle was a fireman. Always wanted to be one or the other. If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be. I'm in my 30's now, it's now or never more or less.


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

I understand the further reaching extent of the actual background check, I wanted to see my CORI for my own personal knowledge.
I wasn't sure what specific charges were placed against me and wanted to know what I was working with, more directly, if I was even able to aquire a LTC.
I was young and scared and clueless as to what half the stuff they were throwing at me meant.
Besides briefly skimming over the police report a couple years ago when I was making a copy of my child support order for my mortgage I hadn't looked at it in over 10 years.

I'm actually leaning towards applying regardless. I figure if I get laughed at for even trying, I won't have to live with the "what ifs" for the next X amount of years.


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

263FPD said:


> You are right. Don't give him false hope. That Domestic A & B is a LTC disqualifier. As Such, he stands a snowball's chance in hell.


It's not a mandatory disqualifier.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Harley387 said:


> It's not a mandatory disqualifier.


OK. But is it a mandatory disqualifier for LTC?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

263FPD, it's not a disqualifier. A CWOF is not considered a conviction in MA. I've spoken briefly with a lawyer regarding this, it even clearly states "Non Conviction" on my record.

Again, could the police chief say "No" based on his judgement...sure. Is it an automatic disqualification..no. It's what I was told anyway.


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

Brian82 said:


> I scored a 98 on the State Police exam years ago and made it to the interview process and physical testing. I chose not to go forward with the process for fear of being rejected due to the CWOF.


Brian,

There isn't a person on this forum who hasn't had a brush with a vengeful ex but you really need to do a little introspection. Based on what you've posted, you sound like a well-meaning guy but you've got a huge fear of rejection that appears to have crippled you.

The fact that you don't have an LTC at your age speaks volumes and reading through your posts, i'm hearing firefighter (Type B personality), not cop (Type A). A cop would know exactly what he was charged with and probably would have memorized the docket number. I don't know how you could go through all of that and not know exactly how you were charged but being ordered to complete a batterers program pretty much spells it out.

When scores come out, only a certain number are allowed to proceed. Don't take up someone else's slot and drop the ball again. Honor your Uncle and go the way of the hose.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

I don't know about that. There are a lot of instances that a CWOF is considered to be a conviction for the purposes of charging a subsequent offense. I am aware that in cases of domestic abuse, we do not charge subsequent.

You are getting two very different answers from people here. I know for a fact that my department would bypass you. Some people here, seem to think you have a chance. 

What I do know, is that if I was charged with Domestic A & B, I would not have a job unless the outcome in court was either Nole Pros, Dismissed, or Not Guilty.

You say that you were wrongfully accused, but you chose to admit to sufficient facts, and accepted a CWOF. 

I am not stupid. I know that people are accused of doing things they did not do all the time. And I also know that people opt for a CWOF quite often, just to make things go away. The sad reality here is that a CWOF does not equal Not Guilty. While it may be true that a CWOF does not immediately disqualify you from this job in theory, no Police Department is required to overlook it either.

I guess we are down to opinions here. My opinion is, that if you make it to the back gound portion of your process, this thing will stop you dead in your tracks.

I should probably have stuck to answering your original question. And that was "Should I waste my time?"

What is and isn't a waste of time, is something that only you can decide at this point. What is the worst thing that can happen if you try? The worst thing that can happen is that someone will tell you "No".

You are in your 30's. By now, you have had to deal with rejection once or twice in your life. You said this yourself, you don't need a job. You want this job. We all want something that we may not get, but if we don't try to get it, we will never know. Will we. 

Spend the $100.00 on the test. It's only money. You could blow through a $100.00 on a dinner date. Take a day out of your life, and take the test. I have seen people do it all the time. 

This job is full of people who should have never been cops. Be it due to their back ground, or be it due to the fact they are horrible at it. Somehow, these people squeaked by. May be you will too. May be you will be great at it given a chance. May be you will absolutely suck at it. Or may be, you will not get the job.

If you don't try, you have no one to blame. If you do try and don't get it due to your CWOF, you can always blame the system, the courts, your lawyer, or you can take the blame yourself for even placing yourself in the situation.


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## 7costanza (Aug 29, 2006)

This site has had its share of........ahhh nvmnd.


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

263FPD said:


> OK. But is it a mandatory disqualifier for LTC?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Negative.


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## militia_man (Mar 27, 2005)

I'm a little surprised that some here don't think that Brian has a decent chance. Any officer that has been to their share of domestics knows that guys are often on the losing end of false accusations. Hell has no fury like a woman scorned. Some people are just ruled by their emotions and will say anything when they are angry. That goes for men and women. I'm sure most on this site that are on the job have arrested men involved in domestics, even though they had some serious doubts about the accusations. But the allegations are made and you do what you feel like you should do, or are required to do, despite your personal feelings about the situation. I think any fair background investigator would evaluate Brian's situation carefully and compare it with their own experiences dealing with what they suspected were false accusations. A good background investigator would seek out other women he has been in a significant relationship with and find out if he was ever violent or controlling. If other women vouch for him as a good guy, then it would be easy to conclude that the problem was with the accuser and not the accused.


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## GARDA (Dec 30, 2003)

Brian82 said:


> I plan on taking the civil service exam in April, however I received a CWOF for A&B-Domestic 11 years ago. I had no prior record at the time and have had nothing since then.
> My question is: Do I have any chance of becoming a Police officer and would it be a waste of time to even take the test? My Grandfather who was a Police officer tells me to still take it, but I think he's just being nice and trying not to crush my dream.
> Thoughts?


Some of our colleagues have been hired with a worse background.
Others inexplicably linger on the job long after they have irreparably tarnished the badge.
And don't think there aren't those who've given their departments a black-eye in the past,
only to be promoted up the career ladder anyway.

_"An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory"_ ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Take the friggin test, but be prepared to answer some probative questions about your incident during the hiring process. Just remember, background investigators usually don't ask questions they don't already have the answer to, and/or plan on getting... so answer accordingly.

Good Luck.


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## TopCop24 (Jul 11, 2005)

Just put Lawrence PD down and no other city/town. You don't need a gun to work there as set by recent precident.


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## Guest (Jan 15, 2013)

Brian82 said:


> I can tell good crazy from bad crazy...


Obviously you can't, as evidenced by a domestic violence charge on your BOP.

Someone I know who works in the public safety field (not a police officer) has a penchant for ending up with women who are bad crazy, and he's been locked up at least four times I know of for bogus domestic violence charges, all with different women. The charges are always dismissed when the "victim" sobers up and refuses to cooperate with prosecution, but they've forever poisoned his chances of becoming a police officer, because even though the charges are totally false, he demonstrates an extreme lack of good judgment in choosing his romantic partners.


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## Herrdoktor (Jun 23, 2010)

LawMan3 said:


> Fear of being rejected? That "tail between the legs" attitude could get you or someone else hurt or killed.
> 
> Take this analogy for example: You somehow make it onto the job, and you're at a domestic dealing with a subject who all of the sudden pulls a screwdriver out of his pocket and charges at you or the victim .....You don't take out your gun and shoot him because of your fear of being called on the carpet in the chief's office because he didn't actually have a gun. Now someone is either dead or seriously injured because of your so-called fear.
> 
> Take Baldwin's advice........


Brutal


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## Brian82 (Jan 14, 2013)

Some productive dialogue in here, it's good to get both sides of the equation. It's appreciated.
I'll tell you, as a young man in my very early twenties it was just a serious shock as to what was happening.
The court appointed lawyer at no point said "Hey kid you know this CWOF is basically going to stick with you until your balls shrivel off."
It was more like "It's better than being in jail isn't it."..Seemed like a no brainer at the time. Had I known, or been educated on the cons of accepting a CWOF, my choice would have been different.
I did get a chuckle from the courtroom when the Judge asked (i'm paraphrasing) "Do you admit that there is significant evidence to prove you struck Miss Blah Blah?"..Me: "NO!"..My lawyer then whispered to me "It's part of the agreement."...
All we can do is learn and grow stronger from the adversities we are faced with. I think I have done that, certainly not with my tail between my legs!


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## bok (Mar 28, 2009)

Brian82
- Consult with your attorney on the following MGL's for your Ex situation;
265-43A
269-14A
H.P.O. Harassment Prevention Order,,,
Good luck !


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

Brian82 said:


> The court appointed lawyer . . . .


Once I read that part I realized why you got hosed in this case. You get what you pay for. Most of them suck and don't give two shits about the clients whose folders are in their pile of folders for the day. They are in it to make cases go away as quickly as possible.

In my opinion, the Moral of the Story (for all of us): NEVER TRUST A COURT-APPOINTED LAWYER. They suck.



Brian82 said:


> I can tell you the domestic violence laws are in place for a very good reason, it's just unfortunate they can be manipulated so easily for evil...


I'm really sorry about your situation and I think you stated an important fact above. This is just one of the hundreds of thousands of reasons that I purposely stay single. I wish you well in whatever career you pursue. . . ,


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

Jeepy said:


> This is just one of the hundreds of thousands of reasons that I purposely stay single.


Mrs. Delta784 and I have had our rough spots (like any married couple), but in the end, I hit the jackpot when I married her. I would have been perfectly content to stay single if we never met.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

Delta784 said:


> Mrs. Delta784 and I have had our rough spots (like any married couple), but in the end, I hit the jackpot when I married her. I would have been perfectly content to stay single if we never met.


It sounds like you both hit the jackpot. I read the other day that the best gift a father can give to his children is to love their mother. I thought of several happily married couples with kids whom I know, and you two were one of the couples that crossed my mind. So congrats, Delta, 'cause all that good work on the marriage will benefit your children tremendously and -- ultimately -- the rest of us in society.


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## lofu (Feb 25, 2006)

Delta784 said:


> Mrs. Delta784 and I have had our rough spots (like any married couple), but in the end, I hit the jackpot when I married her. I would have been perfectly content to stay single if we never met.


I was significantly involved with my wife before I got on the job and married within 2 years of being on. At times the thought has crossed my mind "what if I had been single on this job? (I was 23 when I got hired)" then I go to a domestic and see some crazy woman using the system against a guy and I thank God I found my wife when I did.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

lofu said:


> I was significantly involved with my wife before I got on the job and married within 2 years of being on. At times the thought has crossed my mind "what if I had been single on this job? (I was 23 when I got hired)" then I go to a domestic and see some crazy woman using the system against a guy and I thank God I found my wife when I did.


I was 22 when I entered the police academy, and got married when I was 32.

I had my fun in-between...I used to work "The Tent" details whenever I could.


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

take the test and you won't have to live with, "what if ?"

took a s**tload of tests, never made the Fire or PD. that's just life.

you got a job, spend the $100

good luck


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## Code 3 (Dec 28, 2012)

Delta784 said:


> I was 22 when I entered the police academy, and got married when I was 32.
> 
> I had my fun in-between...I used to work "The Tent" details whenever I could.


I would like to request a contact for this said position


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2013)

Code 3 said:


> I would like to request a contact for this said position


Oh, the stories I could tell..........


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## PBC FL Cop (Oct 22, 2003)

Take the test, unless you have something more important to spend your three hours on that Saturday doing...What do you have to lose...Like others have said, there are cops on the job who have done much worse...Good luck!!


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