# LTC



## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

Does any one know the specifice laws on being a police officer and carrying a gun if you are under the age of 21? I got a summer job and i am not 21 but I plan on having my own gun. Do I have to leave the gun at my station at the end of my shift or can I bring it home since I will be within the scope of my employment with the PD? Any help is appreciated.


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## csauce30 (Aug 23, 2002)

I got hired as a summer officer when I was only 20, and the department didnt ask anything about an LTC. I did however have an LTC because I obtained it prior to the 1998 change requiring a person be 21 as opposed to 18. It probably depends on the Dept. you are working for. send me a PM and Ill try to elaborate more on my exerience with this issue.


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## Tackleberry22 (Dec 21, 2002)

It's up to the department to on whether or not they will issue you a fire arm. Most likely you will have to leave your fire arm at the station at the end of your shift. Technically you can not carry a fire arm home with you after work if you do not have a LTC.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

MDCM
You should really look into your departments policy and get something in writing. I'm not 100% sure , but I think if you carry under the badge it has to be a department issued weapon. Also check your P.D's policy, if you were to use a non-issued weapon while in preformence of your duty. Some departments won't back you up, because if a law suit arises, the question of who trained you and certified you on the use of that weapon will most likely come up.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

EPD,

The department is having us qualify with our weapon the first week that we are up there. I talked to a supervisor today and he said that it is not carrying under the badge until i am sworn in, which is the second week i am at the cape. So I perception is that once i am SWORN IN then i can carry at any time.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

If anyone can help me figure this one out....

CHAPTER 41. OFFICERS AND EMPLOYEES OF CITIES, TOWNS AND DISTRICTS.

Chapter 41: Section 98. Powers and duties.

Section 98. The chief and other police officers of all cities and towns shall have all the powers and duties of constables except serving and executing civil process. They shall suppress and prevent all disturbances and disorder. *They may carry within the commonwealth such weapons as the chief of police or the board or officer having control of the police in a city or town shall determine* ; provided, that any law enforcement officer of another state or territory of the United States may, while on official business within the commonwealth, carry such weapons as are authorized by his appointing authority.
Does this mean that i can have it at my house off duty as long as the chief says its ok?


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

You can carry a firearm under your badge if the Chief allows it while on-duty. Off-Duty you can carry your water pistol until you reach 21. Hope that helps.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

When i say carry i mean just driving with it in my car from the station to my house, and then bring it into my house. i don't mean carrying on my side while i am off duty.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

MCDM
The way the law reads can be very vague. If the Department you are working for gives you the o.k., you should be able to carry at all times under the badge. Like I said earlier try to get the P.D's policies, instead of trying to interpet MGL/c's. A few years ago a buddy of mine worked down the cape and the Department would not let summer appointees take thier firearms home, they had to leave them at the station. The reason being that most of the summer appointees were rooming together an things must of got out of hand at one time or another. 
If you are sworn in by a P.D. whos policy states that you must leave your weapon at the station and thats a condition of hire, then you probably would not be covered under MGL'S/c. If there the ones who gave you the badge, thier the ones that can take it away.
Like I said earlier, I am not 100% sure of this, its just my opinion. One thing for sure is if the department requires you to leave it at the station, do it. Don't get jammed up by carrying off duty, if your not authorized to do so. Any summer app. looks great on a resume, but not if they have something like that to say about you and believe me, they will.


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## dh18 (Mar 4, 2003)

Regardless if you can or can't carry on the badge, I don't think you'll be able to buy a pistol without a valid LTC. Many dealers won't even allow you to handle a pistol without one.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

I want to get my own gun becuase i want to be able to shoot it and know that no one else has handled it. If i cant bring it home i will see if the dept will let me keep it in the station while i am off duty. I need to qualify with it so i want to practice with it before the summer. 

DH,
that is why i have someone that has an LTC buy one for me....then i am covered under the badge once i am sworn in.


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## dh18 (Mar 4, 2003)

Chapter 140: Section 131E. Purchase by residents; licenses; firearm identification cards; purchase for use of another; penalties; revocation of licenses or cards; reissuance.

".... no firearm or ammunition or ammunition feeding device therefor shall be sold to any person less than 21 years of age. Any person who uses said license to carry firearms or firearm identification card for the purpose of purchasing a firearm, rifle or shotgun for the unlawful use of another, or for resale to or giving to an unlicensed person, shall be punished by a fine of not less than one thousand nor more than fifty thousand dollars, or by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than ten years in a state prison, or by both such fine and imprisonment. A conviction of a violation of this section shall be reported forthwith by the court to the licensing authority which issued the license or firearm identification card, which shall immediately revoke the license or firearm identification card of such person. No new license or firearm identification card under section one hundred and twenty-nine B or section one hundred and thirty-one shall be issued to any such person within two years after the date of said revocation."


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## q5_po (Aug 23, 2002)

> Originally posted by csauce30:
> * I got hired as a summer officer when I was only 20, and the department didnt ask anything about an LTC. I did however have an LTC because I obtained it prior to the 1998 change requiring a person be 21 as opposed to 18. It probably depends on the Dept. you are working for. send me a PM and Ill try to elaborate more on my exerience with this issue. *


The particular agency that Chris is refering too only allowed us to carry dept issued weapon and we had to leave the weapon in station after the shift.
PS, Chris give me a buzz. Fighting 3-11!


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

You cannot have someone purchase a handgun for you if you don't have a LTC, it's illegal. If caught, you could forget about any employment with a PD and the person who bought it for you would lose his/her LTC among other things. As far as I know, carrying under the badge only applies when you are on duty. As for leaving your gun at the station, what's the big deal? You will probably be issued a locker to store your weapon and gear in anyway, so you don't have to worry about anyone messing with your stuff. I would leave your weapon at the station if I were you, don't worry about taking it home. My dept issues the summers/specials their duty weapons and requires them to leave them in their lockers at the station along with all their equipment. If you are worried about practicing/qualifying with your weapon, talk to the supervisor in charge of the summer specials- he/she may arrange extra time at the range for you.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

Ok...thanks for the info, I guess I won't do that now. Any way to get around it?


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

Well, i guess i wont be doing that now...but how far can an FID get me in the situation? anywhere?


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## tomahawk (May 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by MCDM:
> * Well, i guess i wont be doing that now...but how far can an FID get me in the situation? anywhere? *


Sure - you can go hunting next fall! 

Seriously, you will most likely end up carrying a department weapon under your badge, and leaving it at the station. What's the big deal? Less hassle, less expense... if I were you, I would definitely prefer it that way. 

-Mike


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## Irish Wampanoag (Apr 6, 2003)

No LTC no purchase of a firearm. You can carry a department issue gun on your badge and in uniform only, but you have to turn it in at the end of your shift. Like Tomahawk said keep it locked at the station less problems that way you will not forget it in the bathroom lol. Seriously if you are to bring it home make sure you are in your uniform that way some layman does not report that there is a guy with a gun etc...


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## bumc215 (Dec 1, 2002)

DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW LONG THE RENEWAL PROCESS TAKES FOR THE LTC CLASS A. I RENEWED MINE 2 AND A HALF MONTHS AGO AND MY OLD LTC JUST RAN OUT A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO. THE PD HAS NOT RECIEVED MY NEW ONE YET AND SAID THERE IS NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT, SHOULD BE IN SHORTLY. THEY HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS FOR SOMETIME NOW. I AM KIND OF WORRIED BECAUSE TECHNICALLY I HAVE AN ILLEGAL FIREARM IN MY SAFE. DOES ANYONE HAVE AN IDEA ON WHAT I SHOULD DO.


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## tomahawk (May 1, 2002)

bumc, I have been waiting for my Class A since everything was submitted back on Valentine's Day. I keep getting the "it should be in any day now..." line...









-Mike


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## bumc215 (Dec 1, 2002)

same thing is happening with me. it sucks. they tell me they dont know what is going on. should be in anytime and that they will call.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

Thanks for everyones help


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## Tackleberry22 (Dec 21, 2002)

Don't feel to bad tomahawk. I went to the police station and passed in all my paper work in for my LTC class A. This fat lady at the desk tells me to have the letters redone on a business letter head.







Now to me what's the damn difference, a letter of recommendation is a letter of recommendation. If both letters state that the person is qualified to obtain an LTC then it shouldn't matter.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

Tackle,

I plan on buying my own gun, so I will not be using one from my dept. So I do not want to leave the gun at the station. I thought that it is legal to carry under the badge, and having the gun at home is within the scope of employment.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

bumc125
Actually if your firearm is in a safe at your place of residence, it's not illegal. you do not need a LTC to have a firearm in your home. Your OK as long as you don't take it out of your house. Same thing go's for purchasing a firearm, if you can find a dealer willing to do so, you can have it delivered to your residence w/o a LTC.


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## csauce30 (Aug 23, 2002)

Last time I checked, you must have a LTC to have a handgun in your home. To purchase one, you must have a LTC, or you used to be able to have an FID and a "permit to purchase." Im not sure if that still stands. But I am pretty sure that you still need to have a LTC in mass to keep a handgun in your home. The fact that it is locked in a safe is completely separate from the LTC requirement. The firearm must be locked in a secure depository within your home or must have a trigger lock to prevent unauthorized access. again, I am not positive, but thats the way I understand it...anyone else hear anything different??


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## csauce30 (Aug 23, 2002)

BUMC125,

by the way, I had the same experience with my LTC renewal. I submitted all the paperwork...and was told to check back in 4-6 weeks. 6 Weeks later, I called and was told, oh, our clerk broke her arm, so it will be delayed another 2 weeks. Finally after 8 weeks, it was ready. Dont stress, they all take their sweet time...as far as my previous post, I am pretty sure that the LTC requirement has been satisfied by you to keep your gun in your home. You were in possession of a current LTC, and submitted your renewal, it has taken longer than expected, not your fault. I wouldnt sweat it.


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## Vino5SJ (Dec 25, 2002)

EPD124,

So I am able to get one as along as I go from home to work....but if i get my own i would plan on locking it at the station anyways. how would i go about having it delivered to my house?


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2003)

> Originally posted by csauce30:
> * Last time I checked, you must have a LTC to have a handgun in your home. To purchase one, you must have a LTC, or you used to be able to have an FID and a "permit to purchase." Im not sure if that still stands. But I am pretty sure that you still need to have a LTC in mass to keep a handgun in your home. The fact that it is locked in a safe is completely separate from the LTC requirement. The firearm must be locked in a secure depository within your home or must have a trigger lock to prevent unauthorized access. again, I am not positive, but thats the way I understand it...anyone else hear anything different?? *


I maybe mistaken but from what from the way I understand MGL on firearms you can own/posess a handgun in your home with an FID card. However you can purchase a handgun if you hold a current FID and are given a permit to purchase (thats the way I understand the law). But obviously to carry it you need an LTC.

Also I beleive you only need the permit to purchase if your buying from a licensed dealer, if it's a private sale you dont nee the permit to purchase, but must register the weapon with the local pd.I'm not 100% sure on that one but my first statement I'm 99% sure of.


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## LeadDog17 (May 3, 2002)

I'm with Hunter on his first statement - the second sounds kind of shady to me.

Also, a couple of interesting things from chap 140:

sec 131 (e) says: "The licensing authority shall, within 40 days from the date of application, either approve the application and issue the license or deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing; provided, however, that no such license shall be issued unless the colonel has certified, in writing, that the information available to him does not indicate that the possession of a firearm or large capacity firearm by the applicant would be in violation of state or federal law."

also, 
131 (l) says: "The executive director of the criminal history systems board shall send by first class mail to the holder of each such license to carry firearms, a notice of the expiration of such license not less than 90 days prior to such expiration and shall enclose therein a form for the renewal of such license"

Section 129C. No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition unless he has been issued a firearm identification card by the licensing authority pursuant to the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine B.
No person shall sell, give away, loan or otherwise transfer a rifle or shotgun or ammunition other than (a) by operation of law, or (b) to an exempt person as hereinafter described, or (c) to a licensed dealer, or (d) to a person who displays his firearm identification card, or license to carry a pistol or revolver.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

MCDM
Im not sure about the FID requirement to keep a firearin your home. The laws have changed over the last couple of years. However, I think you do need a permit to purchase, if you do not have a LTC, I'm almost pretty sure you have to be 21. 
You seem to be pretty determined on obtaining this firearm. Without getting into your personnal business, if your thinking of having a friend or family member getting a firearm for you, forget it. It's not worth the jeopardy you put them and yourself into. If that firearm is stolen or is someway misused, the person who bought it and registered it, can be held accountable for it. I don't think thats something you would want to put on someone. 
If I were you i would take some of the advise that other people have already posted. Let the P.D. you are going to work for handle it. Plus you will be 21 before you know it.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

God save us all.

Don't have anybody else buy you a handgun!!! You will make them a "straw purchaser" in violation of Federal Law. Check out ATF Form 4473. Why? You can't legally purchase one for yourself. Therefore they can't legally transfer one to you on an FA-10 State form!

You cannot have a Handgun at home unless you have an LTC OR an FID w/permit to purchase! Why?
Because you can't legally walk into Fred's Fine Firearms and buy one yourself.(yet)

Unless your chief specifies by either existing policy, or a letter authorizing you to possess an off-duty weapon, DON'T!

Carrying on the badge is great. If you're not wearing one on duty, under 21, and have no LTC DONT!


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## Joe B (Aug 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by csauce30:
> * To purchase one, you must have a LTC, or you used to be able to have an FID and a "permit to purchase." Im not sure if that still stands...I am not positive, but thats the way I understand it...anyone else hear anything different?? *


I believe the gun control act of 1998 nixed the old "permit to purchase" loophole. Also, you need either a class A or B LTC to possess a handgun, either in your home or on your person, so an FID won't fly either.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2003)

> Originally posted by Joe B:
> *
> 
> 
> ...


I believe thats incorrect Joe, I'm 99.9% sure that if you hold a valid FID and obtain a permit to purchase for a handgun and are the home owner (where the handgun will be kept)you can legally purchase a handgun and posses it in your home.

I wouldnt be walking around doing yard work with it on my hip looking like Wyatt Erp







.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Hey look what I found:

*if you possessed an FID card TOGETHER with a handgun which you obtained with a permit to purchase PRIOR to October 21, 1998, your FID card allows you to validly possess this handgun in your residence or place of business

www.state.ma.us/eops

I take this to mean that Chapter 180 of the Acts of 1998 did away with the "permit to purchase" provison. It doesn't exist anymore. So it looks like Joe is right. The only way to lawfully possess a handgun in your home is to have a Class "B" LTC. (unless you had FID/Permit t/purchase/handgun prior to October 21, 1998)

This holds true for your large capacity rifles and shotguns also. You could legally own them after October 21, 1998 on your FID until it expired, then you must apply for a Class "B" LTC to keep your AR-15's & 9 shot Remington 870's


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2003)

OK I stand corrected,my bad. I thought it was the opposite, sorry JOE.
















Thanks for ending the speculation MPD61


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## Joe B (Aug 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by Hunter:
> * OK I stand corrected,my bad. I thought it was the opposite, sorry JOE.
> 
> 
> ...


No problemo.


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## tomahawk (May 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by csauce30:
> *I had the same experience with my LTC renewal. I submitted all the paperwork...and was told to check back in 4-6 weeks. 6 Weeks later, I called and was told, oh, our clerk broke her arm, so it will be delayed another 2 weeks. Finally after 8 weeks, it was ready.*


I *finally* got my Class A earlier this week. The clerk who brokeher arm works for the state, apparently she takes care of the mental health checks - so I imagine what department you applied through is irrelevant, they all go through her.

-Mike


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## bpd145 (Dec 1, 2002)

Tomahawk... You think waiting for your LTC was bad, how about your own Department issuing an LTC with the wrong information on it. I think you know me pretty well, but did you know I was a blond-haired, 5'8", "unemployed driver?" 

I ended up tossing in the towel. The name and DOB are correct. That's all I needed.


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## Crvtte65 (May 19, 2002)

As soon as I turn 21 I am goin to apply for my A. That and get a new driver's license....this picture will haunt me forever if I don't


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## tomahawk (May 1, 2002)

> Originally posted by BPD145:
> * Tomahawk... You think waiting for your LTC was bad, how about your own Department issuing an LTC with the wrong information on it. I think you know me pretty well, but did you know I was a blond-haired, 5'8", "unemployed driver?"
> 
> I ended up tossing in the towel. The name and DOB are correct. That's all I needed. *










Why am I not surprised... good luck over there, you are definitely going to need it! 

5'8? Sweet, now you are suddenly shorter than me.

-Mike


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## mikefo (Jan 15, 2003)

Hi,

It's also a federal violation, under the Straw man act to have someone purchase a firearm for someone other that the buyer.

Mike


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

mikefo said:


> Hi,
> 
> It's also a federal violation, under the Straw man act to have someone purchase a firearm for someone other that the buyer.
> 
> Mike


Thats Right Mikey!!!!! Good boy! but it's actually "straw purchaser" a term, not an act. (look back exactly 10 entries)
:wink:


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