# Health Care Reform Thread



## DANIPD

Hospital prepares for Obama's health plans - NewburyportNews.com, Newburyport, MA

Published: July 24, 2009 03:57 am ShareThisPrintThis 
0 
Hospital prepares for Obama's health plans 
By Katie Curley
Staff writer

NEWBURYPORT - While Washington debates whether now is the time to reform health care nationwide, local hospital president and CEO Delia O'Connor said locally, care will not be affected and the hospital is equipped to handle the changes.
Congressman John Tierney, D-Salem, is among lawmakers who support an overhaul of the nation's health care system that includes a government-run insurance plan and a new tax on the wealthiest of Americans. 
The latest debate comes after President Barack Obama's address to Americans Wednesday night when he said now is the time to reform the health care industry.
"We're going to be heavily impacted by state reforms," said O'Connor, CEO at Anna Jaques Hospital in Newburyport. "The state and federal approach are different. The state plan is more revolutionary as far as having more reaching impacts. A lot of what the Washington plan is focused on is expanding coverage to those who don't have health insurance."
O'Connor said the focus on covering all Americans would have smaller impacts in the Bay State, where 98 percent of state residents have insurance. She believes the biggest impacts will involve insurance payments.
"It could reduce or limit payments to doctors and hospitals," O'Connor said. "That's an area of concern, as the entire country waits to see how they will pay for this (health care reforms) through taxing or having higher payments."
Tierney said the rising costs attached to the existing system are squeezing constituents, who are worried about losing the coverage they have now.
"This is the crescendo that has been building year after year," Tierney said of the intense push, led by President Obama, to reform the system. 
A key component of changes proposed by Democrats is the so-called "public option," an insurance plan offered by the federal government. Critics say it will drive private insurers out of business and threaten the quality of health care provided in this country. 
Tierney, however, said that the argument has "no basis in fact." The public plan is needed to increase competition in the insurance industry and compel private providers to become more efficient and less expensive, he said. Tierney also highlighted the Congressional Budget Office's projection that only 3 percent of Americans will be accessing the public option by 2019 to dispel the suggestion that the public plan will overtake private competitors. 
Making the health care industry, including doctors, hospitals, pharmaceutical and insurance companies, operate better is a key to driving down costs, Tierney said. The CBO estimated that more than $1 trillion in spending could be trimmed, he said. 
Insurance companies in particular need to spend more money on direct health care and less on marketing strategies and "outrageous" executive salaries, Tierney said. Insurers put 33 cents of every dollar toward overhead expenses, compared to 2 to 3 cents of every Medicare dollar, he said, again citing the CBO. 
"Both the state and federal systems will undertake major challenges," O'Connor said. "It's challenging, but we have a head start with the help of the E-Health Collaborative. We've got the infrastructure to manage a different world, but that means grouping with larger institutions to learn how they are doing data processing."
But even with increasing efficiencies, the cost of the proposed reform is extremely high. Earlier this month, the CBO estimated that it would cost $1 trillion within a decade to cover 97 percent of the legal population. Tierney acknowledged that "some type of (tax) assessment" will be necessary to cover a portion of this expense. 
The proposal he supported put a 1 percent surtax on income between $350,000 and $500,000, a 1.5 percent surtax on income between $500,000 and $1 million, and 5.4 percent on income above $1 million. House leaders have since talked about adjusting the plan to only tax income above $500,000 for individuals and above $1 million for joint filers. 
"The average person is not going to be affected," Tierney said. "Small businesses are not going to be affected." 
He also pointed out that the wealthiest Americans had their taxes cut by 27 percent over the last eight years.


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## Hush

Quickest way a hospital can prepare for Brobamas health plan is to hang a "going out of business" sign on the front door.


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## LGriffin

*Senator Thompson on the Obama Health Care bill* 
*If you want to know how the elderly would be treated under the Obama Health Care bill* 
 July 25, 2009 
Dear ,
Listen to former U.S. Senator Fred Thompson as he interviews someone who has read the Obama Health Care bill.
Click here to listen. (MP3 / M3U format)
Obama's plan would deny medical care for the elderly. This interview is 8 minutes long. Please listen and then forward it to friends and family.


Sincerely,










Donald E. Wildmon,
Founder and Chairman
American Family Association

*Please listen to all 8 min. It's a VERY scary look into why he wants to rush this through.*


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## 7costanza

*Say no to Obamacare‏*

Health care "reform" = Obamacare = Health_fare_ 
("Free" Health care welfare for illegal immigrants, the lazy, unproductive and stupid)

Sign the petition, or we will all be paying more for the losers in this country, and from other countries, as well.​ 
Tell a friend | Patients First


If you don't want UK/Canadian style government healthcare, call these numbers to register your opposition!

White House Comment Line: 202-456-1111
Congress Switchboard: 202-225-3121​


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## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

I hope that each of you will do more than just sign a petition. You need to contact your congressman and two senators by phone, fax or email. (Unfortunately due to delays for screening due to (anthrax etc.) terrorist concerns, snail mail takes too long unless you send it to their local district office, however they pay the most attention to snail mail.

For those of you that don't have time to read all 1,000+ pages here is a guide to the key bad provisions so you can read the ones that are most adverse to you and explain to your representatives why it's bad:



> The Collins Report
> 
> July 27, 2009, 7:30 am
> 
> By Kevin "Coach" Collins
> 
> http://www.collinsreport.net/2009/07/30/why-we-have-to-fight-part-four-the-final-19-specific-threats-to-our-liberty-from-obam acare/
> 
> 1) Page 16 spells out the destruction of private healthcare. Exposing it alone stopped the Marxists cold forcing a postponement of their vote until September, but there's much more.
> 
> 2) Pg 22 mandates Obama's Government to audit the books of ALL healthcare self insuring EMPLOYERS the same as individual taxpayers are audited. The IRS has hired nearly 600 new revenue officers for this task.
> 
> 3) Pg 29 lines 4-16 AND pg 30 Section 123 basically mandates rationing of health care in the fashion of the UK and Canada where it is a total failure. Every November Canada runs out of money to pay doctors so doctors are furloughed and nobody is treated until January.
> 
> 4) Pg 42: Health Choices Commissioner is empowered to pick your healthcare plan for you regardless of your wishes.
> 
> 5) PG 50, section 152 clearly states: the American taxpayer will pay for health care for the 30 million non-citizens in America including illegal aliens.
> 
> 6) Pg 58 says Obama's government will have all your health care and financial records. And you'll be issued a National ID Health card. No card, no healthcare so you can't "sneak" into another plan not approved for you by a commissar.
> 
> 7) Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives Obama's government apparatchiks direct access to your bank accounts so they can take whatever THEY think you owe for Obama's "free" healthcare and you'll have nothing to say about it.
> 
> 8) Pg 65 sec 164: Obama's government uses our tax money to fund a special subsidized plan for union thug retirees their families and community groups like ACORN. This is the $8.5 BILLION dollar payoff you've heard about.
> 
> 9) Pg 72, lines 8-14 creates a Health Care Exchange meaning all private health insurance will be nationalized like the banking, car manufacturing and student loan industries.
> 
> 10) PG 85, line 7 dictates specifically what benefits all health plans will be allowed to provide. This will increases rationing of healthcare.
> 
> 11) PG 91, lines 4-7 healthcare providers MUST hire translators paid for with our tax money for non English speakers (illegal aliens).
> 
> 12) Pg 95, lines 8-18 government paid ACORN types will knock on our doors and sign us up for the "right" Obama healthcare plan.
> 
> 13) PG 85, line 7: The push grandma down the stairs section. It dictates rationing for Medicare recipients: disguised euthanasia.
> 
> 14) PG 102, lines 12-18 mandates those reaching Medicaid age be pulled out of their plans and automatically pushed into Obama government run Medicaid with no choice.
> 
> 15) Pg 124, lines 24-25 ends our right to sue the federal government for medical price fixing. Forget about turning to the courts for help.
> 
> 16) Pg 127, lines 1-16 dictates doctors' salaries which will reduce their income and make medicine a less attractive profession. This will mean fewer doctors and more rationing.
> 
> 17) Pg 145, line 15-17 employers not already offering their employees' medical coverage must enroll their employees in a government plan. No private insurance will be allowed.
> 
> 18) Pg 126, lines 22-25 mandates employers paid health insurance include part-time workers. This will cause huge job losses.
> 
> 19) Pg 149, lines 16-24 WalMart's monopoly section; they can to pay this but others will go out of business trying. It forces employers with annual payrolls above $400,000 to either direct their employees into Obama's healthcare or pay an additional 8% payroll tax.
> 
> 20) Pg 150, lines 9-13 employers with an annual payroll between $251K & $400K either enroll employees in public insurance option or pay 2-6% extra payroll tax.
> 
> 21) Pg 167, lines 18-23 self-employed individuals either sign up for Obamacare or pay an extra 2.5% income tax.
> 
> 22) Pg 170, lines 1-3 exempts non-resident aliens from the individual health care taxes. You will pay; legal and illegal aliens don't.
> 
> 23) Pg 195 simple government bureaucrats will have access to all Americans personal financial records and accounts.
> 
> 24) PG 203, line 14-15 really says "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." ? What?
> 
> 25) Pg 239, line 14-24 directs the reduction of medical care physician for Medicaid recipients. This will end the life of many people.
> 
> 26) Pg 241, line 6-8, there will be NO pay differentiation between medical specialties. The heart surgeon will be paid the same salary as the Dermatologists. This will kill the whole medical service system just by itself. It's the type of stupidity they do in Canada.
> 
> 27) PG 253, line 10-18 lets government apparatchiks decide what the value of doctor's time and professional judgment will be.
> 
> 28) PG 265, Sec 1131 TOTALLY controls the productivity of EVERY health care provider including SURGEONS.
> 
> 29) PG 268, Sec 1141 rations POWER CHAIRS. This will kill off more old people.
> 
> 30) PG 272, Sec. 1145 RATIONS cancer hospital treatments. Cancer patients: "Go home and make a will."
> 
> 31) Page 280, Sec 1151 The government will look over the shoulder of doctors and penalize them and hospitals allowing "preventable readmissions."
> 
> 32) Pg 298, lines 9-11 Directs FEDERAL PENALTIES for doctors who treats a patient during initial admission then are later re-admitted meaning more "unnecessary tests?"
> 
> 33) Pg 317, lines 13-20 doctors may not own or even invest in a healthcare facility.
> 
> 34) Pg 317-318, lines 21-25, and 1-3 prohibits expansion of any hospital.
> 
> 35) pg 321, lines 2-13 hospitals must apply to local communities for PERMISSION to expand.
> 
> 36) Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 healthcare rationing through outcome based health care. "Get rid of grandma; she's pulling our numbers down!"
> 
> 37) Pg 341, lines 3-9 ends Medicare Advantage Plans and HMOs forcing people into Obamacare.
> 
> 38) Pg 354, Sec 1177 will restrict treatment for SPECIAL needs Americans. Hitler's dream come true!
> 
> 39) Pg 379, Sec 1191 establishes the Telehealth Advisory Committee and pays more bureaucrats to rule us.
> 
> 40) PG 425, lines 4-12 "Advance Care Planning Consultation," Orders grandma to accept death to save Obama healthcare money.
> 
> 41) Pg 425, lines 17-19 all senior patients counseled on living wills.
> 
> 42) PG 425, lines 22-25, 426 lines 1-3 approves list of end of life resources, for seniors' dying process.
> 
> 43) PG 427, lines 15 THIS IS THE BIG ONE: government says when, how your life ends!
> 
> 44) Pg 429, lines 1-9 Advance Care Planning Consultants (ACORN thug?) will "meet with" seriously ill patients.
> 
> 45) PG 429, lines 10-12 Advance Care Planning Consultant empowered to order your life ended.
> 
> 46) Pg 429, lines 13-25 your doctor might not be allowed to be with you at your death.
> 
> 47) PG 430, lines 11-15 Obamacare decides ALL of your end of life care.
> 
> 48) Pg 469 ACORN types running "Community Based Home Medical Services" totally involved in your life.
> 
> 49) PG 489, Sec 1308 taxpayer funded Marriage & Family therapy.
> 
> 50) Pg 494-498 Obama's commissars define mental illnesses old Soviet style. Don't like Obamacare? You must be sent to a sanatorium comrade.


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## 7costanza

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Thank You LongKnife!! ..If you guys think that oBamas legions are signing a petition to do the opposite think again...I get the emails...


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## LGriffin

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Thanks guys, I have both signed the petition and sent off a few obamagrams.
Anyone too tired to come up with a story copy / paste mine if you wish:

*Please note my opposition to President Obama's health care plan. I firmly believe in the old adage that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and while I believe that the current system could use some grease, it is certainly not as broken as it would be under Obama's plan.

As an educated American, I do not require a "Health Choices Commissioner" to choose my health care (p.42). I would also prefer to pay for my own health care rather than the 30 million non-citizens in America, i'm just not that wealthy(p.50 sec. 152). Accordingly, I do not want the Gov't to have direct access to my bank account (p.59 line 21-24). These are merely a few examples as I know that you are pressed for time but I am particularly offended by the plans assault on the elderly via restricted care, and you should be too.

I certainly hope that you read every since page of this plan before you rush to any decision. I have relatives in the UK who have stated that their system is a complete failure. I do not wish for my family to experience that failure first hand in the United States of America. *


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## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Many of the provisions may not mean much to many of us - at least right now. But there are already shortages of doctors in certain parts of the country or in certain specialties. It is clear that doctor's income is going to be cut. How many will take early retirement? How many or our best and brightest will choose another profession?

It is clear the health care plan is not a good one since the House Democrats have chosen to exempt themselves from it. Federal employees have 17 great plans from which to choose. One simple comment to your congressman could be: Please don't vote for this plan unless you and your staff are going to have to be covered by it and only it.

Polls or the census show 91% of Americans have health care and 84% of them like it.

There are 47 (+/-) million uninsured. Of this, 10 to 20 million are non-citizens including illegal immigrants. 10 million earn more than $75,000 a year (18 million earn more than $50,000) and both probably could afford to buy insurance if they chose. 18 million of the uninsured were under 34 (8 million of them under 24) and some iof these may have simply determined that they are young and healthy and thus can do without coverage. There are 6 million that are on Medicare, Medicaid, S-CHIP but say they are uninsured and are erroneously included in the 47 million as they do not understand those are insurance. A large number are between jobs and COBRA may have run out but will have insurance once they get a new job. At the end of the day it is estimated there are about 10 million that may be "entitled" to health care but don't have it and can't afford or get it (perhaps due to pre-existing conditions).

300 million have it. The 10 million that don't are not a crisis. Why ruin the world's best health care for the vast majority when there are simpler less costly ways to care for the needy. For instance, why not determine criteria that applies to these 10 million and simply make them eligible for the existing medicare system or just buy them a health insurance policy? This might cost $30 to 100 billion but that is far less than the low ball $1 trillion estimated cost for the proposed reform and it would not affect the current private system.

Here a chart from IBD

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=330914221104750

showing a breakdown of the unisured:


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## 7costanza

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



> If you guys think that oBamas legions are signing a petition to do the opposite think again...I get the emails...


Durr...obviously I meant if you think they arent signing a petition for his healthcare....you know what I meant...sign the dam thing.


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## LGriffin

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Longknife & 7 - We really need to change your masscops titles from "member" to "Masscops Health Care Advocates." Good work.

I have seen this issue from both sides. What the Dems make out to be a horror is really not so as I once had no insurance while waiting for it to kick in on a new job and had an ER visit ("Comin' to join you Elizabeth!") where I later negotiated with the hospital for payment. Same with Doctors and Dentists, they'll provide lower fees for those who are uninsured, you just have to ask. Maintained my "grills" for about 20% less ;-))

I have seen many of these losers interviewed with a smoke hanging out of their sucks while complaining that the have no insurance. A clear cut misapplication of funds, and I don't want to pay for their possible stomach stapling or iron lung under Odrama's plan!


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## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

As for titles, I kinda like yours: "rightwing extremist."

Not having health insurance can be very worrisome. We had that situation with my son who after completing grad school and before the benefits for his first job kicked in, was no longer covered by our plan for a short time.

Unfortunately because of the WWII wage freeze, we now have a situation in which most private health insurance is provided by employers and is therefore not portable. It would better if everyone bought their own, just like food, clothing, shelter, life and auto insurance and as much or as little of it as they wanted. My son for instance would not have needed a policy that provides the botox treatments that Pelosi gets in hers, nor hair transplant ones that other politicians get and if he could get a plan that didn't have to include all the government mandated extras, it would actually be affordable.

I mentioned above my idea of just making certain worthy (i.e., not illegal immigrants or the wealthy) uninsureds eligible for medicare or just buying them a health insurance plan, but another idea in these tough economic times would be to extend the mandated COBRA benefit (and include an allowance for it in unemployment compesation) - but also aloow or require someone to opt out of all the mandated or non-life threatening sub-coverages such as botox to reduce the cost.

There have got to be ways of taking care of the 10 million uninsured without ruining it for 300 million happily insured Americans forever.


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## Kilvinsky

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

As I mentioned in another thread, I sent an e-mail to the White House. Well, it's come back to haunt me. I got an e-mail from them asking for my support of Health Care Reform.

I hit 'Reply' and typed at the top these simple words: "Nope. Don't like it one bit."

My reply won't be read anyway so why make it long. I just now fear I'm on the 'mailing list'. God Help ME!


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## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Got the same email for the same reason. Thank God they're required to provide an "unsubscribe" feature.

I still continue to get his campaign emails (for intelligence purposes) and recently got one saying how important is was to contact Snowe and Collins. needless to say I had already contacted them several times using my Maine summer address contact info as they pay a lot more attention to constituents.


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## 7costanza

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*








sean --

You've probably seen the headlines: Opponents of change are doing everything they can to delay health insurance reform. As a Republican strategy memo concluded, "If we slow this sausage-making process down, we can defeat it."

They're betting that as time goes by, our energy will flag, our movement will weaken, and they'll ultimately be able to block any change.

But they just don't get it -- thanks to the regular Americans who are reaching out in neighborhoods nationwide, our movement is expanding every day. *In fact, over the weekend, we surpassed our big goal of 1 million people taking action for health insurance reform.* And with your help, we'll keep growing and prove that our opponents' strategy of "delay, delay, delay" simply won't work.

So I want to ask you for something unusual: *Can you chip in $1 each day until we pass real health insurance reform?* A huge response will show the insurance companies and their allies in Congress that their delay tactics will only make our movement stronger.

​
Here's how it works: We'll bill your credit card for 30 days' worth of donations now and once a month until the President signs real health insurance reform into law.

*The cost of inaction on health insurance reform is astounding.* Every day, 14,000 more Americans lose their coverage. Premiums continue to rise at three times the rate of wages. And each day, more small businesses are forced to choose between covering their employees and keeping their doors open.

But that doesn't stop our opponents from trying to bog down the process with legislative tricks. And at the same time, they're attacking the President for "moving too fast," even though Washington has been talking about the need for comprehensive health insurance reform since the days of Harry Truman!

What they don't realize is that outside of Washington, our campaign keeps growing. We've reached our "million" milestone, but the stories behind that number are even more impressive: grassroots press conferences with small-business owners in Missouri, more than 1,200 people at an organizing meeting in Minnesota, huge events outside local Senate offices in Florida, and so much more.

That's why our dollar-a-day campaign is so important: If the few senators and representatives who are opposing reform understand that dragging their heels makes us stronger every day -- and that the grassroots pressure on them will increase -- they'll be far less willing to keep slowing down the process.

*Can you help? Please donate $1 per day until we pass real health insurance reform:*

*https://donate.barackobama.com/dollar*

Thank you,

Mitch

Mitch Stewart
Director
Organizing for America

​
You believe this effin @%uche.....asking people to donate....and some dumbasses will...


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## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Here's what one email says the OFA organizing for America) is doing:



> Less than three months ago, OFA launched our campaign for health insurance reform. In that short time, hundreds of thousands of Americans have joined in by:
> 
> sharing a personal health care story
> calling their representatives
> going door-to-door talking with their neighbors
> calling neighbors in all 50 states
> publishing letters to the editor in local newspapers
> donating
> hosting or attending a local event, and much more.


Here's the one on calling Maine:



> <img alt="Organizing for America"> Chester --
> 
> With the health care debate coming down to the wire in Congress, we need every vote we can get. Both of your Massachusetts senators are fighting hard for reform, but the two senators from nearby Maine -- Senator Olympia Snowe and Senator Susan Collins -- are under tremendous pressure to cave to special interests. They need to hear from constituents who want them to stand with the President -- and you can help.
> 
> Using our simple online tool, you can call voters in Maine, let them know how crucial their senators are, and ask them to speak up.
> 
> Making these calls is surprisingly easy. We'll provide a list of like-minded voters in Maine and give you all the information you need -- including the Maine senators' phone numbers. If the folks you call want to add their name as a Mainer for health care reform, you can sign them up with one simple click.
> 
> *Make calls to Maine today.*
> <img alt="Call Maine today">
> 
> By calling these crucial senators' constituents and asking them to sign on in support of the President's principles for reform -- and then call their senators -- you'll be making a vital difference in the fight for reform.
> 
> With special interests pouring millions of dollars every day into lobbying Congress to block progress, Senators Collins and Snowe must hear loud and clear that their constituents are counting on them to stand up for reform.
> 
> *No prior experience is required, and you can call from anywhere you have a computer and a phone.* We always hear back from callers about what a rewarding experience it is.
> 
> There are voters in Maine who want to fix our health care system as much as you do, and they may not know how much power they have to make it happen. Let them know, and help bring our country one big step closer to the reform we need.
> 
> Please start calling Mainers today:
> 
> *http://ma.barackobama.com/CallMaine*
> 
> Thanks so much,
> 
> Jeremy
> 
> Jeremy Bird
> Deputy Director
> Organizing for America
> 
> <img alt="Donate">


I wonder if they monitor the calls or whether I could use their facilities to call people about how bad this will be for us and how unnecessary?


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## GeepNutt

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

I just can't figure out why we haven't heard more of an uproar from the medical community, doctors in specific.

And to a larger extent there are a lot of groups that are suprisingly in favor which I don't get either, AARP for example. They are against mandatory testing for elder drivers, but let the gov't tell you to just go off and die instead of getting medical care and they are all for it ???


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## LGriffin

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



> So I want to ask you for something unusual: *Can you chip in $1 each day until we pass real health insurance reform?* A huge response will show the insurance companies and their allies in Congress that their delay tactics will only make our movement stronger.


Seriously? Odrama must need cash to support his pizza deliveries...


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## LGriffin

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

*Political Cartoons by Chip Bok*


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## Killjoy

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

The fight against this abomination of a plan will determine the future course of our nation. I'm not trying to be melodramatic, but what kind of country will we live in when the federal government will tell you _exactly _what to do with your body and health? Its about two steps away from the kind of eugenics Hitler wanted to practice!

Even relatives of mine who had supported Obama are now thinking that this plan is a very, very bad idea. I'm not one to say I told you so but......


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## LGriffin

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

*Obama trims sails on health reform*

*White House alters pitch in bid to reinvigorate president's signature issue*








Video
​ Reality of health reform battle hits home 
Aug. 1: As the campaign for a health care overhaul moves out of Washington, members of Congress are preparing to fight the spread of misinformation among their constituents back home. NBC's Mike Viqueira reports. 
Nightly News








Video: White House

​*Reality of health reform battle hits home*
Aug. 1: As the campaign for a health care overhaul moves out of Washington, members of Congress are preparing to fight the spread of misinformation among their constituents back home. NBC's Mike Viqueira reports.

http://javascript<b></b>:vPlayer('32248622','e676ac5d-a0f9-4035-87c9-1a5b91958000')
By Ceci Connolly
updated 5:36 a.m. ET, Sun., Aug 2, 2009

WASHINGTON - From the start of his presidency, Barack Obama made clear that his plan for enacting comprehensive health-care reform came down to three words: fast, broad and bipartisan. 
That was then. 
Now, as lawmakers begin to flee Washington for a month-long recess, the White House team is retooling its message and strategy, hoping a more modest approach will reinvigorate Obama's signature domestic policy initiative and give him a first-year victory for Democrats to carry into the 2010 midterm elections. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32256884/ns/politics-washington_post/#storyContinued
Legislative wrangling, a well-coordinated Republican opposition and the sheer complexity of an issue that consumes nearly one-fifth of the nation's economy have taken a toll on the president and his bold ambitions. Polls show that support for Obama's handling of health reform has declined as anxiety deepens about its effect on middle-class, insured Americans. 
"There was a view that because of the recession this could be sold as an economic fix," said Howard Paster, President Bill Clinton's legislative affairs director in 1993. "That's not selling. The public has spoken loudly." 
With the debate shifting from partisan-charged Capitol Hill to the kitchens, diners and churches of America, Democrats are under pressure to counter the GOP's "risky experiment" story line. 
Four congressional committees have approved bills, largely on party lines, that would require that every person carry health insurance, would offer credits to families and small businesses that have trouble affording coverage and would begin to realign financial incentives toward performance-based care. 
A key fifth committee in the Senate is negotiating a more centrist bill, which could pave the way for a less-ambitious compromise. 
"Over the next few weeks, we must build upon the historic consensus that has been forged and do the hard work necessary to seize this unprecedented opportunity," Obama said Saturday. 
*Eyeing success*
By leaving the bill-writing up to Congress, Obama is better-positioned to claim success no matter which bill is adopted. Already, *he has abandoned his opposition to the proposed requirement that everyone have insurance, known as an individual mandate, and signaled a willingness to consider financing schemes -- including tax increases -- that originally were not on his agenda.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32256884/ns/politics-washington_post/
*


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## Kilvinsky

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

I think, at least for a while I'm going to stay on the list and simply reply now and then. None of it will be supportive, but I'll feel good about it. Isn't feeling good all that matters?


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## OfficerObie59

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



LongKnife56 said:


> There have got to be ways of taking care of the 10 million uninsured without ruining it for 300 million happily insured Americans forever.


I like Severin's position. Give those 10 million free healthcare, a free mortgage, and $50,000 cash. The result would be 1000 times less detrimental to our country than Obama's plan.


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## HistoryHound

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

13) PG 85, line 7: The push grandma down the stairs section. It dictates rationing for Medicare recipients: disguised euthanasia.

25) Pg 239, line 14-24 directs the reduction of medical care physician for Medicaid recipients. This will end the life of many people.

30) PG 272, Sec. 1145 RATIONS cancer hospital treatments. Cancer patients: "Go home and make a will."

36) Pg335, lines 16-25, Pg 336-339 healthcare rationing through outcome based health care. "Get rid of grandma; she's pulling our numbers down!"

3 Pg 354, Sec 1177 will restrict treatment for SPECIAL needs Americans. Hitler's dream come true!

40) PG 425, lines 4-12 "Advance Care Planning Consultation," Orders grandma to accept death to save Obama healthcare money.

So, the party that is against the death penalty for people who rape & murder children thinks they are going to reserve the right to tell senior citizens when it's time to die. Unbelievable, the same people who think cop killers deserve to live are going to tell WWII vets who helped make this country great "thanks for playing, game over." I'm getting so sick and tired of all of obama's garbage. I was hoping that we could weather 4 years and come out of it a little bruised & battered but able to recover. Now I'm not sure we will even survive 1 year of this clown. The country is going to end up on life support before we know it & under obama's plan they will simply pull the plug. This whole thing is making me ill. Thank God I still have good health insurance.


----------



## rireserve

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

I just read this story online about a young girl on a waiting list to have surgery. A waiting list! That is what we will be in for. There will be more useless paper pushers then doctors. Girl (15) faces permanent disfigurement as cutbacks delay vital spinal operation - National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie


----------



## OfficerObie59

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Anyone else see this? People are standing up...this is awesome...make sure you watch the videos. Surprisingly, FoxNews is the only media outlet--other than Phil Hendrie and Imus--who I've even seen mention this. Well...other than the Huffington Post, who's portraying everyone as crazy right-wingers who are "wreaking havoc".



> *Audience Shouts Down Sebelius, Specter at Health Care Town Hall in Philadelphia*
> 
> *Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Sen. Arlen Specter got a preview Sunday of the tough sell lawmakers will face over health care reforms.*
> 
> FOXNews.com
> Monday, August 03, 2009
> 
> Click here to see the video of the town hall meeting
> 
> Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and Sen. Arlen Specter got a preview Sunday of the tough sell lawmakers will face over health care as audience members booed and jeered them during a town hall meeting in Philadelphia.
> 
> Among those at odds with the officials touting the $1 trillion, 10-year plan was a woman who earned loud applause when she said she doesn't want Washington interfering with her health care choices.
> 
> "I look at this health care plan and I see nothing that is about health or about care. What I see is a bureaucratic nightmare, senator. Medicaid is broke, Medicare is broke, Social Security is broke and you want us to believe that a government that can't even run a cash for clunkers program is going to run one-seventh of our U.S. economy? No sir, no," she said.
> 
> While supporters offered courteous applause to the officials, Sebelius didn't earn any fans when she said that if lawmakers say they don't understand the legislation voters should urge them to go back and read it.
> 
> Specter was shouted down when he said that lawmakers divide up the bills into sections and have their staffs read portions because, "We have to make judgments very fast."
> 
> He then said he will have read the Senate bill before he votes on it, which Sebelius pointed out hasn't been written yet.
> 
> "The Senate bill isn't written so don't boo the senator for not reading a bill that isn't written," she said.
> 
> That explanation, which undermined an earlier failed argument that the legislation should be passed quickly, didn't satisfy many of the more than 400 people estimated in attendance.
> 
> Dozens in the back shouted at Sebelius when she said the bill would stop the system of rationing that insurance companies use. Sebelius then scolded the audience who jeered her, saying she would take questions if people could stop shouting at each other.
> 
> The anger is just a sample of the reaction lawmakers are bracing for as they try to sell the massive plan wending its way through Congress. The House Energy and Commerce Committee passed its version -- one of five in Congress - late Friday before the House broke for the August recess.
> 
> They are using that month's time to sell the plan to voters. For those Democrats who haven't read the 1,000 pages of legislation, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has handed out cards with talking points to address constituents' concerns.
> 
> The card, labeled "health insurance reform to hold insurance companies accountable" drives home two points -- one, that the health care bill is good for consumers, and two, that Congress will hold the insurance industry accountable.
> 
> But while insurance companies are low on voter opinion polls, Congress is viewed even less favorably. And Republicans are seeking to capitalize on the intense scrutiny President Obama is facing over his top priority, issuing a new ad out Monday that tries to make light of the situation.
> 
> "Like the old joke goes, President Obama isn't a doctor, but he plays one on TV," said House Minority Leader John Boehner, calling the ad lighthearted but pinpointing a serious issue.
> 
> "Americans want lower health care costs -- not a trillion-dollar government takeover of health care that increases costs and lets Washington bureaucrats make decisions that should be made by doctors and patients."
> 
> Audience Shouts Down Sebelius, Specter at Health Care Town Hall in Philadelphia - Political News - FOXNews.com


Blog post with the entire town hall meeting; video of lesser quality:
Philly Obamacare Townhall | Panzramic

The Huffington Post's liberal take:
Denise Dennis: Right Wingers Wreak Havoc on Philadelphia Town Meeting



> From AtlasShrugs:
> Atlas Shrugs: Town Halls Grow More, Hostility too: Arlen Specter and Kathleen Sebelius Heckled, Jeered at Town Hall
> 
> Here are photos provided by Rich of some of those who oppose Specter for supporting this socialist medicine.
> 
> 
> 
> Rich Davis, Great American, leader of the West Chester Victory Coalition
> 
> 
> This woman kept getting in our faces, shaking her pamphlets at us and screaming, "You're just mad because Sarah Palin lost and is going to get a divorce." The anger of the "tolerant liberals" is astounding, and their reasoning is bizarre.


More from Michelle Malkin:
Michelle Malkin Grass-roots revolt in Austin, TX: "Just say no!" to Obamacare; Pennsylvanians boo Sebelius & Specter, "How can you manage health care when you can't manage Cash For Clunkers?"


----------



## MetrowestPD

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

*Specter was shouted down when he said that lawmakers divide up the bills into sections and have their staffs read portions because, "We have to make judgments very fast." 
*
He then said he will have read the Senate bill before he votes on it, which Sebelius pointed out hasn't been written yet. Anyone in any other profession corporate or public service would be considered negligent for acting on something before even reading it.

I agree there should be some restructuring of the insurance industry, but no way do I want government handling my insurance, no way.

It is amazing that politicians go out on these Town Hall to promote the health care proposal when they don't even know what exactly is in it.


----------



## kwflatbed

*Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

 

Play Video AP - Grassley: 'i'll let Pres. Obama defend himself'



Slideshow:Health Care

 

Play Video Video:Fact-checking claims about health care reform *AP*



Play Video Video:Crowds get rowdy outside health care forum *AP*

By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer Mike Glover, Associated Press Writer - 10 mins ago

PANORA, Iowa - Sen. Charles Grassley, a Republican who is a key bargainer on health care reform, played to packed crowds across the state who left little doubt that they are not happy with what's on the table. The questions were tough but respectful, and there was little of the shouting that has dominated similar meetings in other parts of the country.
"It seems to me that people are expressing, not just on health care, but people are just very scared about the direction the country is taking," said Grassley, who emphasized that he hasn't signed off on anything.
Grassley is the ranking Republican on the Senate Finance Committee and he's been deep in bargaining seeking a compromise health care plan that could get some Republican votes. He made it clear there are portions of the current measure he can't swallow.
The boisterous forums held by many federal lawmakers have emphasized the challenge for President Barack Obama's administration as it tries to win over skeptical voters to an expensive plan to overhaul the nation's health care system.
Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter and Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill were among those who hosted raucous town halls on Tuesday. Speaking Wednesday in Harrisburg, Pa., the Democrat said that the protesters are "not necessarily representative of America" but should be heard.
"There's more anger out there now than I have ever seen before," he said. "And I think the anger is caused by so many people having lost their jobs and (being) worried about losing their health insurance."
Some meetings Wednesday were less combative. In Kansas, Rep. Lynn Jenkins faced a friendly crowd of more than 200 people, drawing applause as she listed flaws she sees in the legislation before Congress.
Several audience members at Topeka's Holiday Inn Holidome said they believe Jenkins is listening to them - when the Democrats controlling Congress are not.
"I think that's where the yelling comes in," said Jerry Aller, a 55-year-old farmer and postal worker who drove 70 miles from his hometown of Hiawatha.
In Iowa, nearly 500 people jammed a sweltering community center meeting room to see Grassley, with virtually all describing health reform as a government takeover of the nation's health care system that's a prescription for disaster.
Charlotte Fett manages a local clinic, and she said doctors are already forced to fight their way through a blizzard of bureaucracy.
"I'm concerned about the layers of regulation that health care has now," she said. "This will make it worse I think and I've been in health care for 40 years."
"I don't want the government or a bureaucrat working for the government to come between you and your doctor," said Grassley. "I think the stakes are very, very high."
Grassley has opposed Obama's call for creation of a public option that the president says would drive up competition and force private insurers too reduce their rates. Grassley says only people in the country legally should be covered by a government-funded health care program, and opposes any plan that "determines when you're going to pull the plug on grandma."
None of the bills in Congress would provide health insurance to illegal immigrants, but it didn't keep people from expressing concern about it.
Obama has declared that the provision causing the uproar over end-of-life care only authorizes Medicare to pay doctors for counseling about end-of-life care. He says it would not "basically pull the plug on grandma because we decided that it's too expensive to let her live anymore."
National Republicans have seen an opportunity in the health care debate to target vulnerable Democrats. The National Republican Campaign Committee plans to run television and radio advertisements throughout August targeting at least seven members of Congress in competitive races.

The first advertisement, targeting Rep. Steve Kagen, D-Wis., will run this week in the Green Bay, Wis., television market. The ad seeks to tie Kagen to health care legislation. 
Other Democrats being targeted by the NRCC with paid advertising this month include Reps. Zack Space, D-Ohio; Michael Acuri, D-N.Y.; Harry Teague, D-N.M.; Ike Skelton, D-Mo.; Chris Carney, D-Pa. and Bill Foster, D-Ill. 
GOP officials would not say how much they were spending on the advertisements or how often they would air. 
___ Associated Press Writers John Hanna in Topeka, Kan. and Marc Levy in Harrisburg, Pa. contributed to this report.

Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care - Yahoo! News


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

Anybody that votes for this sweeping communist takeover had better have their bags packed. Hook or crook, they're out of office.

There is a great supply of unoccupied lamp posts...


----------



## LGriffin

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*



dcs2244 said:


> Anybody that votes for this sweeping communist takeover had better have their bags packed. Hook or crook, their out of office.
> 
> There is a great supply of unoccupied lamp posts...


Are you suggesting that the voters should start making good decisions? Given the results of the last election, i've lost a great deal of faith in the power of those of us who are not offered a bus ride to the polls.

This country is being taken over by brainless cockroach welfare cases who are the only ones benefiting from this administrations otherwise unconscionable decisions therefore they will continue to vote democrat. Let them live off the rotting carcass they created, it may be time for the TAXPAYERS to set sail for a new land and start over. Something tropical would be nice.


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

Something in another star system would be better. We wouldn't have to worry about the "entitled classes" following us and ruining the new place; they are too lazy to master any technology...other than, say, a kitchen meth lab or the like...

I figure another country may try the Founders' model...heck, it might be the chicoms. Better brush-up on your Mandarin...


----------



## BB-59

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

I see something more, I see the middle class starting to get off the couches and making themselves heard.

People are starting to realize that the ride they side up for is named the "Titanic".

Even the younger generation is begining to see that their chance to work and get ahead is being replaced by everyone but the elites having to muck along dependent of the goverment.


----------



## LGriffin

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*



BB-59 said:


> I see something more, I see the middle class starting to get off the couches and making themselves heard.
> 
> People are starting to realize that the ride they side up for is named the "Titanic".
> 
> Even the younger generation is begining to see that their chance to work and get ahead is being replaced by everyone but the elites having to muck along dependent of the goverment.


Sure but it's disgusting how the lib media has portrayed the middle class. One whoop in the group and that's all you see.


----------



## niteowl1970

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*



LGriffin said:


> Sure but it's disgusting how the lib media has portrayed the middle class. One whoop in the group and that's all you see.


The Middle-Class will pay for their insolence.


----------



## CJIS

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

*Tough questions, frustrations continue in town halls*

CNN - ‎11 minutes ago‎
(CNN) -- Town hall meetings continued Thursday with more members of Congress facing an onslaught of tough questions about health care reform plans.
Fate of Obama's Health-Care Effort May Boil Down to Cost Washington Post

Big ad buy for Obama's health care program USA Today


----------



## LGriffin

*Re: Jam-packed crowds press Grassley on health care*

Wouldn't it be great if Harry could bus us into the polls.


----------



## LongKnife56

*Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*

Welcome to ObamaCare!

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqD-nMpsYAY&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)[/nomedia]


----------



## BB-59

*Re: Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*

Maybe that should be sent to Keith Olberman over at MSNBC, see if that makes his leg twitch like Obama does.


----------



## LongKnife56

*Re: Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*

I actually have been thinking of flooding "something's fishy @ white house dot guv" with all the liberal lies about the health care reform. I mean the point of "flags" is so Obama will know when someone is not telling the truth about the bill, right?


----------



## kwflatbed

*Re: Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*

Obama invokes grandmother's death in health debate











By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer Liz Sidoti, Associated Press Writer - 1 hr 2 mins ago
GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. - Now, it's personal.
President Barack Obama invoked his own anguish over the death of a loved one as he challenged the debunked notion that Democratic efforts to overhaul the nation's health care would include "death panels."
"I just lost my grandmother last year. I know what it's like to watch somebody you love, who's aging, deteriorate and have to struggle with that," an impassioned Obama told a crowd as he spoke of Madelyn Payne Dunham. He took issue with "the notion that somehow I ran for public office or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma."
"When you start making arguments like that, that's simply dishonest - especially when I hear the arguments coming from members of Congress in the other party who, turns out, sponsored similar provisions," Obama said.

Full Article:

Obama invokes grandmother's death in health debate - Yahoo! News

By LIZ SIDOTI, Associated Press Writer Liz Sidoti, Associated Press Writer - 1 hr 2 mins ago

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. - Now, it's personal.

President Barack Obama invoked his own anguish over the death of a loved one as he challenged the debunked notion that Democratic efforts to overhaul the nation's health care would include "death panels."
"I just lost my grandmother last year. I know what it's like to watch somebody you love, who's aging, deteriorate and have to struggle with that," an impassioned Obama told a crowd as he spoke of Madelyn Payne Dunham. He took issue with "the notion that somehow I ran for public office or members of Congress are in this so they can go around pulling the plug on grandma."
"When you start making arguments like that, that's simply dishonest - especially when I hear the arguments coming from members of Congress in the other party who, turns out, sponsored similar provisions," Obama said.

Full Article:

Obama invokes grandmother's death in health debate - Yahoo! News


----------



## kwflatbed

*Re: Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*

Aug 16, 2009 7:20 pm US/Eastern 
*White House Appears Ready To Drop Public Option*

*Sebelius Says Government-Run Plan Could Be Dropped From Bill*

GRAND JUNCTION, Colo. (CBS) ― President Barack Obama's administration signaled on Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run health insurance as part of his ambitious health care proposal.

Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives. Such a concession is likely to enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.

Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess.



*Video: *Obama Calls Out Health Insurance Companies
*Story:* Health Care Town Hall Meetings Getting Ugly
*Video:* Obama, Pharmaceuticals Strike Back Room Deal?


Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured, but Republicans remain steadfast in arguing against it.

Full Story:

Sebelius Signals White House's Readiness To Drop Public Option For Health Care Reform Plan - wbztv.com


----------



## cpd4720

*Re: Obama Health Reform and Wait Times Visualization (In Lego!)*



BB-59 said:


> Maybe that should be sent to Keith Olberman over at MSNBC, see if that makes his leg twitch like Obama does.


It was actually Chris Matthews who said he got a chill up his leg when speaking with the President


----------



## kwflatbed

*Voters air health care rage*









Photo by AP 
HEATED DEBATE: Last night Rep. Barney Frank led a Dartmouth forum on health care.

*Take Barney Frank to task over Obama health care plan*

*By Richard Weir
*Wednesday, August 19, 2009

DARTMOUTH - U.S. Rep. Barney Frank took the heat from angry voters last night at a town hall-style meeting on President Obama's controversial health care overhaul in a clash reminiscent of others that have broken out across the nation.
"Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy?" asked Rachel Brown, 28, of Boston, referring to end-of-life counseling sessions, dubbed "death panels," mentioned in a provision of the House's health care reform legislation.
"Ma'am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table," Frank lashed back at Brown as she held a picture of Obama defaced with a Hitler moustache.
Frank, speaking at the Dartmouth Democratic Town Committee, continued to defend the controversial public insurance option, telling several hundred people who packed the senior center here that the plan would provide competition to private insurance firms and improve their service.
"People fear (the public plan) will be too restrictive. If it is, rational people will not join it," Frank said

Full Story:

Voters air health care rage - BostonHerald.com


----------



## LGriffin

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

This idiot is such a frickin' fool. These libs have their backs to the wall and they're trying to claw their way out but it's *too late*. 
Yeah, were all stupid for not accepting your latest bleeding heart scam...


----------



## OfficerObie59

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

CNN is so biased it's crazy:


> *Watch Frank slam "vile, contemptible nonsense" »*
> 
> Story Highlights:
> 
> Rep. Frank's town hall turns raucous as attendees attack "Nazi" health care plan
> "On what planet do you spend most of your time?" Frank asks critic
> "I have no interest" in arguing with critics comparing Obama to Hitler, he says
> Frank also notes illegal immigrant coverage is not mandated in bill




On top of it, he expressed his unwavering favor for single payer.
Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall - CNN.com

Greta on the Barney Town Hall:
[nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NchGpZ8jesQ[/nomedia]
From Fox 25:
Outbursts at Barney Frank's Town Hall meeting

*Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall*








Rep. Barney Frank argues with a man after a town hall meeting Tuesday night in Dartmouth, Massachusetts.










*(CNN)* -- Most Congress members conducting town hall meetings this month have chosen a noncombative posture to deal with angry participants who disrupt the proceedings. Not Rep. Barney Frank.

High emotions were evident as Frank passed protesters before a town hall meeting on health care reform.

At a lively two-hour meeting Tuesday night in Dartmouth, Massachusetts, Frank gave as good as he got in confronting opponents of overhauling the nation's health care system.

Full Story: Barney Frank goes toe to toe at health care town hall - CNN.com


----------



## Big.G

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

An email I got...



> Rep. John Fleming from Louisiana has introduced a resolution requiring any member of Congress who votes for the healthcare bill to sign up for the government plan instead of the comprehensive, separate plans they all currently have. So far and to no one's surprise, no democrats have agreed. He's encouraging everyone to go to his web site and vote in the poll about this.
> 
> > Rep Fleming's web site: http://Fleming.house.gov/
> Go to his site, vote and forward to everyone you know!! Congress needs to know that we think it's unacceptable that they want to force us into a program they are unwilling to use for themselves and their own families!
> This looks like it might get counted since it goes directly into Rep. Fleming web page. Take the time to do this! SIGNING THIS MAKES sense...it isn't rocket science...they vote for a bill saying they believe in it...then they should participate in it!
> 
> Yaaa right, like that will ever happen.


----------



## LongKnife56

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

It's actually not true that (at least temporarily) no Democrats have agreed to put themselves in the new plan per an amendment introduced by Sen Tom Coburn (R).

A Prescription for the Goose&#8230; - WSJ.com

Short fair use excerpt:



> By a 12 to 11 margin, the Senate Health Committee agreed. Senator Chris Dodd, the committee's acting chairman, and Senator Kennedy were absent from the committee but sent in proxy votes in favor. Maryland Senator Barbara Mikulski was the only other Democrat to back the measure. Every Republican save for New Hampshire's Judd Gregg voted in favor of the Coburn mandate.


I can understand Dodo agreeing because he is in big trouble, but what's really incredible is that Fat Teddy agreed.

It was widely rumored that the provison would be pulled in a back, smoke filled room deal


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Longknife, why should the Hero of Chappaquidic(tm) care? He can afford to pay for his healthcare out-of-pocket!



Too bad he didn't catch that syphillis infection in time, though.


----------



## LongKnife56

*Outbursts at Barney Frank's Town Hall*

Fair use excerpt:

DARTMOUTH (FOX25, myfoxboston) - Rep. Barney Frank lashed out at protester who held a poster depicting President Barack Obama with a Hitler-style mustache during a heated town hall meeting on federal health care reform.

Outbursts at Barney Frank's Town Hall meeting

Here are some of Bwarney's comments to his constituents:



> "On what planet do you spend most of your time?" Frank asked the woman, who had stepped up to the podium at a southeastern Massachusetts senior center to ask why Frank supports what she called a Nazi policy.
> 
> "Ma'am, trying to have a conversation with you would be like trying to argue with a dining room table. I have no interest in doing it," Frank replied.
> 
> He continued by saying her ability to deface an image of the president and express her views "is a tribute to the First Amendment that this kind of vile, contemptible nonsense is so freely propagated." [/QUOTE}


----------



## CJIS

*Re: Outbursts at Barney Frank's Town Hall*

He got burned


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

I have to go looking for the comments at Hotair...should be pretty funny. He's a pompous a$$. Vote Sholley.


----------



## jettsixx

*Re: Voters air health care rage*



kwflatbed said:


> "Why do you continue to support a Nazi policy?"


When I read this line I thought it read "why do you continue to support a Nancy Pelosi?" Do you think there is a reason for that??????


----------



## LGriffin

*Re: Voters air health care rage*



dcs2244 said:


> I have to go looking for the comments at Hotair...should be pretty funny. He's a pompous a$$. Vote Sholley.


Wrong guy to send out to win "hearts and minds."


----------



## NewEngland2007

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

Apparently the CEO of Whole Foods Markets had some negative things to say about the health care proposal. Hilarious watching the libs lather and boycott because they heard an opposing viewpoint. Can't wait to load up a cart or two at WFM, free of the hairy legged Birkenstockers.


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

Nothing like insulting your constituents to earn their votes!


----------



## Guest

*Re: Voters air health care rage*



dcs2244 said:


> Nothing like insulting your constituents to earn their votes!


They'll re-elect him anyway.


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

Then they deserve him. I voted for Heckler...


----------



## uspresident1

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

Shut up Barney you idiot, The only thing I would vote for Barney in is a "Menino Look A-Like Contest."


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

He always reminded me of Porky Pig. Apologies to Porky.


----------



## LongKnife56

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

Does everyone know that the woman that accused Bwarney of being Hitler was actually a far left wing Lyndon LaRouche Democrat?

Fair use excerpt:



> . . .
> CNN left out the fact that this woman is a Lyndon LaRouche Democrat.
> 
> In the full video . . ., the woman says, "This policy is already on the way out. It already has been defeated by LaRouche." She also underscores her crazy LaRouchite beliefs by claiming that the U.S. has "30% real unemployment". No one disputes that LaRouchites are on the fringe -- but it's indisputable that they are fringe Democrats. They oppose Obamacare because they want a single-payer plan.
> 
> While Nancy Pelosi and liberal talk-show host Bill Press have been smearing protesters as fascists and Nazis, left-wing bloggers have been attacking protesters for comparing Obama to Hitler. It seems townhall attendees just can't win.
> 
> . . . . it's a cheap trick to pretend that the few people who show up with Obama as Hitler signs are representative of the protesters (especially when many of those people are Lyndon LaRouche Democrats).


The full video is here:

Rep. Frank condemns those comparing Obama to Hitler | NECN


----------



## KozmoKramer

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

LaRouche? I thought that pinko died in prison years ago.


----------



## dcs2244

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

I'm still waiting for the fusion reactor powerplants that Lyndon promised us were imminent...


----------



## kwflatbed

*Re: Voters air health care rage*

It's RI turn in the barrel tonight.


----------



## justanotherparatrooper

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



Wolfman said:


> He probably won't live long enough to be affected.


 We can only hope....


----------



## 7costanza

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



> We can only hope....


We should start a thread about when his time is up...hmmm


----------



## OfficerObie59

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

As I was brainstorming for my recent blog, I just thought of Obama's recent proposal for private HMO's to carry the burden of veteran's service and combat related injuries.

Anyone else find this interesting, considering how his base has been slamming private insurance recently as uncaring profit mongers? Apparently he wants to give combat vets what he feels is shitty coverage, and save the good government plans for the welfare cases.


----------



## jettsixx

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

This guy's douchebag-ness gets more and more everyday.


----------



## Nuke_TRT

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

The actual bill for your reading pleasure.

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf


----------



## OfficerObie59

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*



Nuke_TRT said:


> The actual bill for your reading pleasure.


I suppose I could get a leg up on my congressman and read the damn thing...


----------



## Nuke_TRT

*Re: Say no to Obamacare‏*

Congressman Mike Rogers' opening statement on Health Care reform in Washington D.C., great video.

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G44NCvNDLfc&feature=player_embedded"]YouTube- Congressman Mike Rogers' opening statement on Health Care reform in Washington D.C.[/nomedia]


----------



## LongKnife56

*Excellent overview of Health reform issues*

Here is a great overview of the health insurance reform issues. So good I wanted to be able to post it in its entirety without getting Gil in trouble. So I wrote the author on another forum for his permission:



> Re: Re: Debunking the Misinformation Misinformation About Health Care
> From aaronopine | 08/20/2009 7:17:18 PM PDT new
> 
> Thanks for replying. It is acceptable to post the information elsewhere - the more information out there the better! I appreciate the attribution.
> 
> Regards,
> Aaron
> FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
> FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson


Here's the link to the blog::

Aaron Opine: Rebutting the Misinformation Misinformation About Health Care

Here's the blog:



> Rebutting the Misinformation Misinformation About Health Care
> 
> Accusations are flying about misinformation in the health care reform debate. President Obama, Democrats, and the drive-by media accuse Republicans, talk radio hosts, and "ignorant" conservatives of spreading lies about the House Bill (HR 3200) and their efforts to "reform" the system. Who's telling the truth? A quick examination of motives could easily answer the question, but doing so would not give the truth much more credibility as the argument would invariably turn back to baseless accusations. Instead, I'll go point-by-point through the talking points and reveal the truth more concretely.
> First, let me address the issue of Health Insurance. Health Insurance, or sickness insurance, didn't appear in this country until about 1911. Therefore, we have not always had Health Insurance; but we haven't always had much in the way of healthcare either. I doubt anyone would have purchased insurance for the rare instances they went to a doctor to be bled out. Nonetheless, we talk about Health Insurance as being inextricably linked with Health Care. However, this is a mischaracterization. Absent Health Insurance one can still get Health Care - they just have to pay for it directly. Doing so is quite feasible as long as you are not beset by a major illness or injury. Even with the high cost of Health Care, paying out of pocket can be achievable for many people as doctors and medical facilities offer discounts to people paying directly and they will arrange for payment plans.
> Still, many people have medical issues come up that are extremely expensive. Just having a baby can rack up a 5 digit bill. Therefore, we buy Health Insurance to offset the risk exposure to expensive Health Care costs. Contrary to the view of the President, Health Insurers do not (and cannot) exist to pay exorbitant Health Care costs for everyone. They hedge their bet by insuring large numbers of people. The gamble is that more insured will remain healthy and use less Health Care than will be unhealthy and require large sums of Health Care. If insurers don't make money (even non-profits) then they won't exist. In spite of their profit motive there is a symbiotic relationship between insurers and insured; if there wasn't, they wouldn't have any customers. Insured benefit because they mitigate their Health Care cost exposure while insurers benefit by making money - this is the impetus behind every business.
> Now let's start debunking some myths:
> (A) You get to keep your private health insurance
> I attended the Obama Town Hall in Grand Junction, Colorado on August 15th. During that event, President Obama said twice that Americans would get to keep other private Health Insurance plan and their doctors. He further criticized opponents for suggesting otherwise. A woman behind be, an ardent Obama fan, repeated the mantra before and after the event. I finally turned to her and told her that was a lie. On what basis did I say that? Am I an ignorant fear mongering Nazi?
> It turns out that I have read the entire House Bill. Section 102 specifically states that you can only keep your existing Health Insurance the shorter of 5 years or when any term or condition changes. Terms and conditions are defined in the bill as co-pays, co-insurance, premiums, etc. Therefore, when your insurer raises premiums to offset the additional financial risk imposed by the "consumer protection" sections of the bill, e.g. "free" preventive care, no lifetime caps, no refusal for pre-existing conditions, your Health Insurance plan must become a qualified plan. The Bill doesn't expressly define a qualified plan. It provides some minimum standards of coverage, but it leaves the details to the Health Choices Commissioner. Section 142 established the Health Choices Commission who is to be appointed by the President. This new unelected official is aptly named because he or she will get to decide what your health choices are. Specifically, the duties assigned to the Commissioner include defining and enforcing the benefit standards for qualified health plans.
> Could your Health Insurance plan remain in place as a qualified plan? Perhaps, we don't know, but it's not going to be your choice or your employer's choice&#8230;it's the choice of the Health Choices Commissioner - ultimately the President's choice. If you Health Insurance changes it's also entirely possible your doctor will not accept that insurance plan; therefore, per the bill, you will not be able to keep your Health Insurance plan as it exists today and your ability to keep your doctor (other than paying out of pocket) is in jeopardy. But don't worry, the government will decide for you.
> (B) Rationing
> All the King's helpers and all the King's men claim that the Health Care Bill won't let government rationing begin. (Sorry for the knock-off of a Children's fairy tale, but I think all fairy tales should rhyme) Meanwhile, Republicans, conservatives, and talk radio says quite the opposite. Who's right?
> It doesn't say anywhere in the Bill that the government is going to ration care, but no one in their right mind would write it that way. However, the authority and mechanisms for rationing Health Care are rampant throughout the Bill. As mentioned above, Section 142 establishes the Health Choices Commissioner to define covered benefits in public AND private Health Insurance plans. If the government determines colonoscopies for people over the age of 70 aren't cost effective, then guess what's not covered?
> Section 123 establishes the "Health Benefits Advisory Committee," chaired by the Surgeon General (also appointed by the President), to "&#8230;recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans." Section 124 provides the process for "&#8230;adoption of recommendations; adoption of benefits standards&#8230;" by the Secretary of Health and Human Services (appointed by the President).
> If you took the exact words from Section 3121 and put them in a document describing China's Health Care system our State Department would be issuing grievances against China for trying to manipulate their population through Health Care. China's plan would be called sinister and controlling. Apparently when it appears in our Bill it is going to promote better health and efficiency and lower costs. This section describes the development of a "&#8230;national strategy that is designed to improve the Nation's health through evidence-based clinical and community prevention and wellness activities&#8230;" The strategy will be implemented by the "Task Force on Clinical Preventive Services" described in section 3131.
> Throughout the Bill there are sections (the above sections included, you can also check out section 1401, "Comparative Effectiveness Research") describing research with the intent of determining the best quality of care and best medical outcomes. While this sounds great on a purely philosophical level, the words "cost" and "effectiveness" appear as qualifiers for the research conclusions. Therefore, the Bill is promoting the coverage for procedures or treatments that are the most cost effective. This is no different than the exclusions found in Canada and the United Kingdom wherein their government's decided certain drugs or procedures were not "cost effective." Although this may seem reasonable, you have to realize these decisions will result in rationing on an economic basis. For example, Drug A might extend, on average, Grandma's life 3 years but it costs four times what Drug B costs which will extend Grandma's life 1 year on average. The entire population will be reduced to averages and the government will decide how much 2 years of your life are worth.
> As long as resources are scare - money and Health Care - there will be rationed health care. It's unavoidable. President Obama and his ilk content that private insurers already ration care, which is true. However, the difference is that private insurers have an incentive to provide better coverage and offer more options: they want more customers and the bigger profits that come with more customers. The Government only has incentives to limit options and coverage. Furthermore, the government will generalize its research to all Americans regardless of geographic or cultural differences that impact health care outcomes.
> Finally, regardless of your position on rationing, it is expressly apparent that HR 3200 would grant a massive amount of new control over our Health Care to the Federal Government. This cannot be disputed. I challenge anyone to find the section in the Bill that explicitly says the Government will not ration our Health Care.
> (C) We will pay the costs of the Health Care Bill through savings in Medicare.
> I lost count of how many times President Obama has said this. He wraps it together in a nifty package that includes a statement with some element of truth. He claims that our country's massive deficits are exacerbated by Health Care costs, specifically the cost of Medicare/Medicaid. That's where the truth ends in his monologue.
> Obama contends we can reign in deficit spending by improving efficiencies in Medicare. This is a lie for two reasons: 1) The CBO estimates the savings in Medicare via HR 3200 will amount to less than $219 Billion over 10 years (read it for yourself at http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10464/hr3200.pdf) and 2) Medicare has an unfunded liability in excess of $60 Trillion.
> No amount of modification of the Health Care Bill will overcome the massive fiscal black hole of Medicare. While efficiencies in Medicare are needed, the reason behind the unfunded liability is the rapidly growing disparity between those who are working and paying FICA to those who are retired and drawing benefits. This disparity is going to increase dramatically as the Baby Boomers retire in droves in the next decade. Even if impressive efficiencies were garnered from Medicare (laugh) the sheer number of people on Medicare will outpace the revenue. The only ways to resolve the financial disparity is to cut benefits (ration), cut the number of insured or increase the age requirements, and/or increase taxes. All of which the President claims will not happen.
> Compounding the issue is the fact that the Trust Fund established for Medicare is a joke. For decades FICA revenues have been sufficient to pay the cost of our social programs and the surpluses were put into a trust fund. The money in the trust fund was "invested" in Treasuries. This sounds like a good idea - earn some interest on the surplus. However, the money paid to purchase the Treasury Securities was then spent by Congress to fund its deficit spending in the General Budget. In theory, there is a massive Trust Fund to pay for Medicare, but in reality there is no money to pay back those Treasuries. The Government must either raise taxes or borrow more money to pay back the Trust Funds.
> No matter how you spin it, Medicare is BROKE. Claiming that we will pay the cost of the Health Care Bill with savings from Medicare is like telling the bartender you're going to pay for your tab with savings from happy hour on all your future drink purchases. It's illogical and irrational.
> (D) The Public Insurance Option is needed to keep private insurers honest / Level playing field
> You would have to be the biggest economic ignoramus to believe this argument. In addition, it is belied by this inconvenient little thing called the truth. Recently, President Obama has backed down from his staunch support for the Public Option in the Health Care Bill. However, he now appears to be backing a co-op plan. To borrow from Shakespeare, a pile of donkey poop by any other name should smell as horrid.
> First, let's talk about a level playing field. While HR 3200 does state that a public option must conform to the requirements for a "qualified" health plan, this requirement is hardly enough to equalize the public and private plans. President Obama claimed in Grand Junction that the public option would have to negotiate rates with doctors just like the private insurers do. However, the Government currently pays 47% of the Nation's Health Care costs; it has tremendous negotiating power. The 1,200 private insurers together pay about 35% of the Nation's Health Care costs. Medicare pays $0.55 on the dollar for reimbursements to doctors while private insurers pay an average of $0.85 on the dollar. One would expect similar results with a public option. Therefore, the public option immediately has a cost advantage.
> Obama also claimed the public option would have to collect premiums. Fine, but what happens when the public plan's expenditures exceed revenue? A private insurer would have to make changes, cut costs, raise rates, negotiate better deals. A public insurer can borrow money from America's grandchildren and deficit spend. Just because you collect premiums doesn't mean you're subject to the same rules and have the same resources.
> Finally, the Bill expressly defines a disparity in the playing field. Section 116 mandates a "loss ratio" (which translates into a mandated profit ratio) for private insurers. This ratio will be determined by the government. However, section 222 allows the public option to maintain a "contingency margin" to offset unforeseen outlays. These are two distinctly different ratios for public versus private insurers and both are determined by the government. Thus, the Bill obviates any chance at a level playing field.
> What about keeping private insurers honest? Well, the bill already mandates a maximum profit per Section 116. The bill also provides several coverage requirements private insurers must meet throughout the 100s sections. In addition, the Bill gives the Health Choices Commissioner the power to determine what benefits each private insurer must provide. What more could a public option possibly do to "keep private insurers honest?"
> The truth is the public option functions as a fall-back when all the private insurers go out of business - it is the doorway to a single-payer system. With the provisions in this Bill the private insurers will be unable to compete. Premiums will necessarily increase to offset the cost of "free" preventive care, no lifetime maximums, lower co-insurance, and preexisting condition exemptions. If any insurers remain following the implementation of the Bill, the Health Choices Commissioner can finish them off with more draconian requirements. This may sound like far flung conspiracy theorizing, but we know Obama wants a single payer system per his campaign speeches to the SEIU and the vehement support for the public option among liberal Dems is further evidence. Several Democrats have said there is no reform without the public option. Such a statement is so incongruous that it clearly evinces the true motivations behind the public option.
> (E) The Health Care Bill will provide Health Care for all Americans.
> Talk about setting your goals low - all Americans already have Health Care, they might not be able to afford it, but they absolutely have it. The real issue is the affordability of Health Care, not its availability. However, the Bill addresses Health Insurance and does nothing to change the fundamental problems in the system that drive up Health Care costs. If you disagree then tell me which sections in the Bill will improve the trajectory of Health Care costs.
> Aside from the Bill being a misplaced hernia of massive government, the Congressional Budget Office released a report on July 17, 2009 that said 17 Million Americans would remain uninsured if the House Bill was signed into law. Therefore, even the ill conceived goals of the Bill will be ineffective. Despite the breathy sales pitch from our politicians and media, the Bill fails to even meet their tantamount claim - that it will provide Health Care for all. Want more proof? Section 1112 provides the Bill's definition for significant reduction in uninsurance as a reduction in the number of uninsured by 8%. Check my math, but 8% doesn't seem very close to 100%.
> (F) Medicare recipients won't be affected.
> Considering 63%, by page count, of HR 3200 consists of modifications to the Social Security Act (Medicare), this contention is hard to believe. The entirety of Division B of the Bill concerns Medicare. Just by the sheer complexity of the Act and this Bill there are bound to be unintended consequences, but from reading the Bill it is apparent there are intended consequences as well.
> As referenced above, the CBO reported there would be a $219 Billion reduction in Medicare. That's not all because of efficiency either, it's because they are cutting parts of the program out. Furthermore, the Bill contains numerous "Pilot Programs" designed to test pay for performance incentives to participating Medicare providers with the intent to implement those programs at a later date. Like a few things in the Bill, this sounds good upon initial review, but pay careful attention to the success criteria.
> In one program, the providers with a lower per capita utilization rate will be compensated better than those with higher utilization rates. While you might be inclined to think this is a great way to incentivize doctors to reduce waste, there is a more dire consequence. If you compare utilization rates between Fort Collins, Colorado and Buloxi, Mississippi the doctors in Fort Collins will almost assuredly have lower utilization rate because the population is very active and healthy compared to Buloxi with its highest-in-the-Nation obesity rates. Therefore, this program would take resources away from an area that is more likely to need those same resources. The Bill states that no more money can be spent in the pilot programs than otherwise would have been spent without the program; therefore, some will get more and some less.
> Additionally, Section 1401, "Comparative Effectiveness Research," is in Division B of the Bill. This section, among many others, describes research intended to determine more cost effective treatments. While being cost effective is important, this section is a guarantee the government will reduce covered benefits for Medicare recipients.
> (G) Small businesses will benefit from the Bill.
> &#8230;and drinking a six beers a day is good for your liver. Both of these statements are patently false.
> Section 313 of the Bill describes the increased payroll taxes on small businesses with total annual payroll outlays of $250,000 or more. In a CBO analysis on the preference for private versus public Health Insurance (which is flawed because it assumes private insurance premiums will remain unchanged) the CBO uses $40,000 as an average worker's salary. Given that assumption, this Bill will start imposing additional taxes on companies with 6 or more employees. I'm not sure about you, but in my book a company of six (including the owners) is still a small business. Even those small businesses currently providing some form of Health Insurance to their employees may be subject to the tax if the government decides, at its discretion, that the employer's coverage is not "sufficient."
> Section 312 would again penalize small businesses with a minimum contribution requirement if the government deems the employer is not contributing enough money to the employee's Health Insurance.
> Finally, Section 441 imposes a surcharge on high income individuals (those making $350,000 per year or more). This ignores the fact that most small businesses are partnerships or LLCs. The member owners of these type of business formations pay taxes on their percentage of the profits from the business as if it were personal income (i.e. they are taxed on their salaries from the business AND their profits from the business). They pay these taxes even if all the profit is reinvested in the company. Therefore, this provision will effectively tax small businesses making more than $350,000 per year; it's not just about individuals.
> Section 421 provides a tax credit to small businesses providing Health Insurance to its employees&#8230;provided they have fewer than 10 employees (prorated for each employee beyond 10)&#8230;and provided the employees don't make more than $80,000&#8230;and provided they employees don't make more than $20,000 (prorated beyond that). At best, the employer gets a tax credit for 50% of the cost of providing the insurance. In Grand Junction, Obama told a woman who owns a small software company in Colorado Springs that he wasn't sure, but she would probably be better off. However, his statement completely ignores Sections 312, 313, 441, and the caveats of Section 421; not to mention the fact that most software engineers make more than $80,000 per year.
> The Bill well illustrates the mentality in Washington DC that employers owe their employees Health Insurance. Our Federal Government treats business as its personal check book as if there is an unlimited balance available for their unabridged use. This ideology forgets that employers provide Health Insurance to their employees as a competitive advantage - to attract the top talent. There are industries where employment is not as competitive and the company may have no incentive to provide Health Insurance.
> Wal-Mart is a common mark for liberals who despise free markets. They absolutely loathe Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart doesn't provide Health Insurance to its normal hourly workers, but let's examine the facts. 1) A full-time, minimum wage worker at Wal-Mart will make about $17,000 per year. 2) Providing individual insurance for that worker would cost about $3,000 per year ($11,000 for a family plan). 3) Wal-Mart has a backlog of employment applications. Given these facts, why would any sane manager at Wal-Mart spend 18% (65% for a family plan) of an employee's salary on a Health Insurance plan? To lure the hundreds of other people who already dropped off an application? If Wal-Mart is required to provide insurance to all its employees, or else face an additional 8% tax on its payrolls, to whom do you think the additional costs will be passed? Everyone, including the Wal-Mart workers. This is effectively a tax on all Americans through higher consumer prices. Even those who don't shop at Wal-Mart will experience higher costs at other retail centers because the same laws apply to other stores and retailers that benchmark against Wal-Mart will commensurately raise their prices.
> (H) The Bill will make Health Care more Affordable
> There is no reason to believe this is true. While some Americans may get Health Insurance that didn't have it already, thereby cost shifting to other Americans, nothing in the Bill addresses the root causes of our high health care costs. In fact, the CBO said the July 14th version of the Bill would increase Health Care costs.
> The primary drivers behind our high cost of Health Care are:
> 1) Medical Malpractice - insurance for malpractice costs in excess of $150,000 per year per physician. Furthermore, doctors often perform more tests than necessary to insulate themselves from malpractice suits. There is no malpractice/tort reform offered in the Bill.
> 2) Illegal Aliens - Illegal aliens use a disproportionate share of our emergency rooms but don't pay for their treatment and don't pay taxes. The Bill excludes them from Government insurance coverage (as it should) but also doesn't mandate they purchase their own insurance (in contrast to the requirement for citizens to purchase it). Likewise, there is nothing in the Bill to address the porous border with Mexico.
> 3) Innovation - Up to 50% of our increase in Health Care costs can be attributed to advancements in medical innovations. The Bill does not address innovation in any way - and it shouldn't. Turns out, I'm willing to pay higher costs for advanced treatments.
> 4) Moral Hazard - Americans with insurance, private or public, do not make decisions about their Health Care based upon costs. Because insurance insulates individuals from the actual costs of the services provided there is no incentive to spend less. Health Savings Accounts address this in part by making the individual responsible for managing the funds available to pay for their Health Care. However, the House Bill makes Moral Hazard worse by mandating "free" preventive care and trying to further insulate the consumers from the costs. Instead, the Bill shifts the cost decision making to the government, i.e. government rationing, and provides incentives for doctors to cut costs - decisions that should be made by the patient in consultation with the doctor.
> (I) Death panels for Grandma
> No&#8230;the Bill doesn't have a section with the words "Death Panel." However, it must have a section that effectively means the same thing because the Senate leadership said that section (1233) would be dropped in the Senate version of the Bill.
> Section 1233 authorizes Medicare to reimburse doctors for providing consultative sessions to patients on end-of-life planning. It's not that end-of-life planning shouldn't be discussed - it's the existence of this section in the Bill juxtaposed against President Obama's speeches wherein he lectures on the benefits of taking a pill to ease your pain over elective surgery that may not extend your life very long. Furthermore, conflate the Bill with Presidential advisor Ezekiel Emmanuel's writings noting that our Health Care dollars are better spent on individuals aged between their teens and 40s because investing in small children may not pay dividends and old people have a diminishing value to society. Taken in context, Section 1233 is disturbing. Furthermore, a physician should not be given the responsibility of explaining living wills, healthcare proxies, and medical powers of attorney. Those are documents an attorney should be discussing with people.
> Moreover, what doctor needs a special session to explain to a patient the benefits of palliative care? Do you think a doctor wouldn't explain pain management to an elderly person writhing in pain from cancer treatments unless it was in the Health Care Bill? Do doctors really not tell you about your treatment options, and chances for success of each, unless they're given a special consultation fee? If they don't that is a bad doctor, not a lack of government incentive.
> When you look at section 1233 in the context of the rest of this Bill it is remarkably obvious the intent is to "sell" seniors on the benefits of dying instead of trying to extend their lives. Extending your life isn't very cost effective.
> (J) Special interest groups are trying to prevent passage of this bill.
> This is about 50% true. I represent a special interest group&#8230;my family&#8230;and they're pressuring me to oppose this bill because my 2-year-old doesn't want to work the rest of his life just to pay for the government's takeover of this country. However, there are a lot of special interest groups that want the Bill to pass.
> Some insurance companies and pharmaceuticals are in bed because they get inked into the plan with sweetheart deals. Insurers want the plan because it mandates people to buy insurance (not realizing or being willing to admit the government has it in for them too). Big Pharma pledged its support and didn't get completely shafted in the Bill. The American Medical Association signed on after Congress cut it a sweetheart deal worth $250 Billion.
> However, section 2251, "Cultural and Linguistic Competency Training for Health Care Professionals," offers some insight into another special interest group that's very interested in the Bill's passage. Subparagraph (3)(d) says that, "In awarding grants and contracts under this section, the Secretary [of Health and Human Services] shall give preference to entities that have a demonstrated record of the following: (1) Addressing, or partnering with an entity with experience addressing, the cultural and linguistic competency needs of the population to be served through the grant or contract. (2) Addressing health disparities. (3) Placing health professionals in regions experiencing significant changes in the cultural and linguistic demographics of populations, including communities along the United States-Mexico border. (4) Carrying out activities described in subsection (b) with respect to more than one health profession discipline, specialty, or subspecialty."
> Hmm&#8230;I wonder what kind of organization has that type of experience? Oh! I got it! Service Employees International Union! Let's see&#8230;SEIU is directly linked to ACORN (same office and same founders) which is directly linked to President Obama (who he used to work for). In addition, we know that SEIU has been actively involved in crafting the Health Care legislation and its representatives have visited the White House on numerous occasions to discuss Health Care. The SEIU website is replete with "information" as to why we should support the Bill and counters to "conservative lies." And who has been sending busses of people to Town Hall meetings around the country? I'll give you a hint, they wear purple shirts and it rhymes with Ess Ee Eye You. Their website also lists all the ways you can support the bill including, shocker, protesting at Town Hall Meetings.
> But surely mention in one little section of the Bill isn't enough to garner so much support, right? Well, in addition to section 2251, the same language appears in sections 2531, 1222 (includes a direct provision for "Community Organizations"), 1302 (The SEIU represents Home Care providers and the Bill's language would give them preference), 2213, 2214, 2215, 2232, 2252, and 3151. I may have missed a few sections where the preferences are in clear favor of the SEIU.
> Thus, the record is set straight. The real impetus behind special interest support comes from the President's buddy list - the very organizations that are literally writing themselves into the Health Care Bill.
> Parting thoughts
> The Health Care Bill is a mechanism to realize the goals of Socialist Liberals in their efforts to put control of our lives in the hands of government. While some liberals may be genuinely ignorant about how the World really functions, most are hungry for power. Their supporting constituents fail to understand the implications of massive government expansions, despite an ample history of failures throughout the World - they pay no taxes and therefore have no reason to oppose a handout at the cost of the "rich" whose success they despise in light of their own failures. When the health care bill results in higher consumer costs and undermine their purchasing power they will again blame the free market.
> Do not succumb to the liberal spin machine. They are on the run. Unable to defend their plans with facts and data they are resorting to calling their opponents names and accusing them of resorting to tactics they openly promote for advancing their agenda. Remain calm and continue to dispel their myths with facts and logic. Someone unable to defend themselves will lash out in an attempt to intimidate their opponents, but it turns out President Obama and Nancy Pelosi need to do better than "nyana nyana boo boo" to convince America it should impale its future on the sword of Socialism.
> Posted by RantBlog at 4:35 PM


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## OfficerObie59

*Re: Excellent overview of Health reform issues*

Hey Harry, a humble suggestion: can we merge the dozen or so healthcare threads thet we have floating around? It's getting a little crowded around here...

Good post Longknife.


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## Crvtte65

I think I got them all....


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## Nuke_TRT

*Sentenced to death on the NHS*

*Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely under an NHS scheme to help end their lives, leading doctors warn today. *

By Kate Devlin, Medical Correspondent
Published: 10:00PM BST 02 Sep 2009

In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.

Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.

But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.

Full Article


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## Hush

I had to take my puppy to the vet last week. Over talking with the vet (and avoiding a $3000 MRI) I learned she was originally from Canada. We got into a discussion about medicine and health care and I asked her...as a medical professional and a person from Canada, what is YOUR opinion of the Canadian Model for health care. She looked at me and said "Its awful." I asked if she would like to see it in this country, and she said "absolutely not." Not like I needed any more convincing, but found it interesting how strong her opinions were.


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## kwflatbed

*John Kerry town hall focused on health care overhaul*



By Associated Press

BOSTON - Sen. John Kerry is holding a town meeting to take the public's... 









8 Comments


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## KozmoKramer

Interesting ebomb.

One word: Marxism
One Phrase: Death Panels
One fact: Unaffordable

Government Success Record:
The U.S. Post Service was established in 1775 - they've had 234 years
to get it right; it is broke, and even though heavily subsidized, it
is not able to compete with private sector FedEx and UPS services.

Social Security was established in 1935 - they've had 74 years to get
it right; it is broke.

Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - they've had 71 years to get it
right; it is broke. Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - they've had
39 years to get it right; it is broke. Together Fannie and Freddie
have now led the entire world into the worst economic collapse in 80
years.

The War on Poverty was started in 1964 - they've had 45 years to get
it right; $1 trillion of our hard earned money is confiscated each
year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked.

Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - they've had 44 years
to get it right; they are both broke; and now our government dares to
mention them as models for all US health care.

AMTRAK was established in 1970 - they've had 39 years to get it right;
last year they bailed it out as it continues to run at a loss!

This year, a trillion dollars was committed in the massive political
payoff called the Stimulus Bill of 2009; it shows NO sign of working;
it's been used to increase the size of governments across America, and
raise government salaries while the rest of us suffer from economic
hardships. It has yet to create a single new private sector job. Our
national debt projections (approaching $10 trillion) have increased
400% in the last six months.

"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009 - -
after 80% of the cars purchased turned out to be produced by foreign
companies, and dealers nationwide are buried under bureaucratic
paperwork demanded by a government that is not yet paying them what
was promised.

So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that each
and every "service" shoved down our throats by an over-reaching
go vernment turns into disaster, how could any informed American trust
our government to run or even set policies for America's health care
system - - 17% of our economy?

Maybe each of us has a personal responsibility to let others in on
this brilliant record before 2010, and then help remove from office
those who are voting to destroy capitalism and destroy our
grandchildren's future.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the
government from wasting the labours of the people under the pretence
of taking care of them."

-- Thomas Jefferson


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## Killjoy

:thumbup:Fine post, Long Knife; two thumbs up!:thumbup:


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## Nuke_TRT




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## Guest




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## csauce777




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## Penguin

How many people in this country are uninsured because they are drug dealers or thieves? I don't see them in the breakdown of the uninsured. 
Any good estimates on the number of criminals on the street today? Granted we do get to pay for them as soon as they meet one you  but that is different.


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## OfficerObie59

Great editorial by Geroge Will...

*Mitch McConnell Smiled? **The President is CPR for the GOP.* 
By *George F. Will* | NEWSWEEK 
Published Sep 12, 2009 
From the magazine issue dated Sep 21, 2009

Mitch McConnell, the taciturn Kentuckian who leads Senate Republicans, usually resembles Samuel Beckett's character Watt, who "had never smiled, but thought he knew how it was done." Last week, however, careful observers detected a trace of a hint of a shadow of a smile. Congressional Democrats were still at daggers drawn with one another, and the president's rhetoric was becoming CPR for the Republican Party.

On the 233rd day of his presidency, Barack Obama grabbed the country's lapels for the 263rd time-that was, as of last Wednesday, the count of his speeches, press conferences, town halls, interviews, and other public remarks. His speech to Congress was the 122nd time he had publicly discussed health care. Just 14 hours would pass before the 123rd, on Thursday morning. His incessant talking cannot combat what it has caused: An increasing number of Americans do not believe that he believes what he says.

Full Editorial: Why No One Believes Obama | Newsweek George F. Will | Newsweek.com


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## 7costanza

The U.S. Postal Service was established in 1775 - you have had 234 years to get it right; it is broke.









Social Security was established in 1935 - you have had 74 years to get it right; it is broke.









Fannie Mae was established in 1938 - you have had 71 years to get it right; it is broke.









The "War on Poverty" started in 1964 - you have had 45 years to get it right; $1 trillion of our money is confiscated each year and transferred to "the poor"; it hasn't worked and our entire country is broke.









Medicare and Medicaid were established in 1965 - you've had 44 years to get it right; they are broke.









Freddie Mac was established in 1970 - you have had 39 years to get it right; it is broke.









Trillions of dollars were spent in the massive political payoffs called TARP, the "Stimulus", the Omnibus Appropriations Act of 2009... none show*any*signs of working, although ACORN appears to have found a new bitch: the American taxpayer.

And finally, to set a new record:









"Cash for Clunkers" was established in 2009 and went broke in 2009! It took good dependable cars (that were the best some people could afford) and replaced them with high-priced and less-affordable cars, mostly Japanese. A good percentage of the profits went out of the country. And the American taxpayers take the hit for Congress' generosity in burning three billion more of our dollars on failed experiments.









So with a perfect 100% failure rate and a record that proves that "services" you shove down our throats are failing faster and faster, you want Americans to believe you can be trusted with a government-run health care system?

20% of our entire economy?

With all due respect,

*Are you crazy?*


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## Guest

see if you can stomach THIS:

[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e2ItadrrL0"]YouTube- healthcare[/nomedia]


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## KozmoKramer

Do you know what is most stomach-turning about that vid Sniper?
That our Chairman Obama believes the "costs" she mentioned are the real problem, not that there is an illegal scumbag is being cared for.
It's the hospital and doctors that are charging too much, not that Mexican & Guatemalan refuse are seeking care.
Makes me f'ing sick.


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## OfficerObie59

*Florida judge rules health care law unconstitutional*

*Florida judge rules health care law unconstitutional*

A federal judge has ruled that the health care reform bill signed into law by President Barack Obama in March is unconstitutional.

Judge Roger Vinson, a Reagan appointee serving in Pensacola, Florida, ruled that key components of the law are unconstitutional and that the entire law "must be declared void."

Full Story: First Read - Florida judge rules health care law unconstitutional-

The first four pages of the decision are like a class in Con Law:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/S..._Politics_Today_Stories_Teases/PPM153_vin.pdf

Notice thins thing was bounced on summary judgment...means the side pushing for the ruling didn't even have to present their side of the case...


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## Eagle13

Fla. judge strikes down Obama health care overhaul - Boston.com

Fla. judge strikes down Obama health care overhaul
By Melissa Nelson
Associated Press / January 31, 2011

PENSACOLA, Fla.-A federal judge ruled Monday that the Obama administration's health care overhaul is unconstitutional, siding with 26 states that sued to block it


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## flintlockglock

Judge Rules Health Care Law Is Unconstitutional - FoxNews.com

:wavespin:


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## CJIS

Looking at this and the Virginia ruling means Massachusetts Healthcare law is Unconstitutional as well which I believe is true.


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## Eagle13

CJIS said:


> Looking at this and the Virginia ruling means Massachusetts Healthcare law is Unconstitutional as well which I believe is true.


I was thinking that too. These cases are setting a strong precedent.


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## kwflatbed

*Fla. judge in Obama health suit has own med story*



Play Video ABC News - Obama on Health Care Repeal: 'Granny is Safe' 

 
Slideshow:Health Care

 
Play Video Video:House 'Obamacare' Repeal Vote: Serious, Not Symbolic *FOX News*
By MELISSA NELSON and RICARDO ALONSO-ZALDIVAR, Associated Press Melissa Nelson And Ricardo Alonso-zaldivar, Associated Press - Tue Feb 1, 6:52 am ET

PENSACOLA, Fla. - The judge who ruled the Obama administration's health care overhaul unconstitutional questioned whether the government was reaching beyond its power by requiring citizens to buy health insurance because everyone needs medical care.
Under that logic, U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson said, the government could force Americans to buy clothes or food. Vinson, who sided with 26 states fighting the much-maligned measure, revealed his own health care story during arguments several weeks ago, an example that helped shed light on his ruling Monday.
When Vinson was a law student and his wife gave birth to their first child, he paid a doctor in cash.
"It amounted to about $100 a pound," the 70-year-old jurist joked in December.
Vinson, an ex-Navy pilot appointed to the federal bench by President Ronald Reagan in 1983, is known for maintaining control of his courtroom while letting everyone have their say. He loves camellia flowers and has handled cases from abortion clinic bombings to veterans rights to racial discrimination.

Full Story:
Fla. judge in Obama health suit has own med story - Yahoo! News


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## kwflatbed

*Alaska Snubs 'Obamacare,' As DOJ Asks Judge's Help*



After governor refuses to enact health law, Justice Dept. asks federal judge to enforce law on other states

*Alaska Rejects Health Care Law*


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## Guest

Note to D.C. politicians.......WE DON'T WANT THE DAMN HEALTH CARE LAW!!!!!!


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## kwflatbed

*Bachmann Demands Congress Cut
'Hidden' $105B From ObamaCare *



_Fox News_


Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann says she wants to use 
the fiscal 2011 budget process to slash what she claims is 
an extra $105 billion that's hidden in health care law funding.

*TAXPAYER CALCULATOR: **How Much Are Mandatory Funds Costing You?*
*Key Votes on Spending Today in Senate*
*Bachmann on Budget Compromise*








*ROVE: Budget Whopper From Obama Admin*
*OPINION: ObamaCare *


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## DEI8

I am shocked that the dems put in hidden fees.


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## cc3915

*Obama pulls plug on part of health overhaul law*

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Obama administration says it is unable to go forward with a major program in the president's signature health care overhaul law - a new long-term care insurance plan.
Officials said Friday the long-term care program has critical design flaws that can't be fixed to make it financially self-sustaining.
Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told Congress in a letter that she does not see a viable path forward at this time. By law, implementation of the program was contingent on Sebelius certifying it financially sound.

News from The Associated Press


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## Pvt. Cowboy

Holy shit... You mean that, it's not mathematically possible to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare, when only 50% of the people living in the US pay taxes?? 

Damn, whoever figured out THAT brainbuster must have an advanced degree in math... Or probably finished 8th grade algebra.


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## Guest

Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Holy shit... You mean that, it's not mathematically possible to pay for EVERYONE'S healthcare, when only 50% of the people living in the US pay taxes??


That's 53%, you radical, racist, teabagger.



Pvt. Cowboy said:


> Damn, whoever figured out THAT brainbuster must have an advanced degree in math... Or probably finished 8th grade algebra.


Try 4th grade mathematics....the other day I went to 7-11 to get milk, and my son tagged along. I gave him $5 to buy whatever he wanted, and he said "Daddy, I wanted to buy a magazine, but it was $7".

Even a soon-to-be 10 year-old understands that you can't spend money you don't have.


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## cc3915




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## CJIS

I LOLed at that pic!


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## kwflatbed

Health overhaul law suffers first major casualty

WASHINGTON (AP) - The Obama administration's signature health overhaul law, under relentless assault by Republicans, has suffered its first major casualty - a long-term care insurance plan.
The program, expected to launch in 2012, had been dogged from the beginning by doubts over its financial solvency.
Proponents, including many groups that fought to pass the health care law, have vowed a vigorous effort to rescue the program, insisting that Congress gave the administration broad authority to make changes. Long-term care includes not only nursing homes, but such services as home health aides for disabled people.
"This is a victory for the American taxpayer and future generations," said Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., spearheading opposition in the Senate. "The administration is finally admitting (the long-term care plan) is unsustainable and cannot be implemented."
Known as CLASS, the Community Living Assistance Services and Supports program was a long-standing priority of the late Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass.

Health overhaul law suffers first major casualty - Yahoo! News


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## CJIS

AFP


US Supreme Court to decide Nov 10 on health care case AFP - ‎24 minutes ago‎

WASHINGTON - The US Supreme Court will decide on November 10 whether or not to take up the case of President Barack Obama's historic health care law, court sources said Wednesday.


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## Guest

CJIS said:


> AFP
> 
> 
> US Supreme Court to decide Nov 10 on health care case AFP - ‎24 minutes ago‎
> 
> WASHINGTON - The US Supreme Court will decide on November 10 whether or not to take up the case of President Barack Obama's historic health care law, court sources said Wednesday.


With so many conflicting circuit court rulings, how can they possibly not take the case?


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## OfficerObie59

It'll go, probably this term, considering the lack of an en banc appeal petition to the 11th Circuit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CJIS

Politico


Kaiser poll finds drop in Democratic support for law Politico - ‎17 hours ago‎

The health care reform law's popularity hit an all-time low this month, largely driven by Democrats' eroding confidence in the historic overhaul, according to a new poll released Friday.


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