# Looking for promotional experience advice



## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

I currently sit first on my Sgt. promotional list and the appointing authority requested a list on 04/24 and the list is good till 5/1 and the injunction is still in place, will CS have to issue current list since request was prior to the expiration?


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

They are going by one list right now. The OLD list.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

Thank you. Any idea how long it usually takes once the request goes in for CS to send out the list and or cards? I appreciate your help.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

Is there a number one can call and get a HUMAN to answer to find out things there?


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## Rock (Mar 20, 2005)

I have some promotional advise for you. Once you get promoted and continue climbing the latter don't become a douche and forget where you came from.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

fra444 said:


> They are going by one list right now. The OLD list.


Has the 08 exam been placed on hold because of the banding dispute?


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

The list I was on was active when the request was made to CS. My list is good until 5/1/09 or until the next list is certified.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

qback275 said:


> The list I was on was active when the request was made to CS. My list is good until 5/1/09 or until the next list is certified.


Your list can't have a predetermined expiration date.

The date the new list is certified is the date the old one expires.

I was personally involved in blocking a promotion under your conditions. Unless the appointing authority signs your promotion before the date of the new certification, you're considered hired off an expired list. It doesn't matter when they made the request.

In other words, they can't call for a list on April 24 and decide to appoint you on May 2nd or whenever, if it comes after the new certification.


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

Yes its all on hold. I just checked and there is still no list for my exam. Not shocked. I figured they would hold on the new list because they lost the first battle about banding.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

That makes no sense to me. I would think that when they have a request for a list, the request would be dated when received and the current active list would be sent to fill that position.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

qback275 said:


> That makes no sense to me. I would think that when they have a request for a list, the request would be dated when received and the current active list would be sent to fill that position.


Here's an example.

A request is made to promote you on April 24th. At the last minute on April 30th they decide not to sign off on the promotion due to temporary budget cuts. The new list is certified on May 1st.

Does that mean they can still promote you in June when the money becomes available?

There has to be a cutoff. The cutoff is the appointing authority has to sign off and promote you before the new test is certified.

In this case since the exam has been placed on hold, you have nothing to worry about. Make sense?

It happened to me where I was number one on the upcoming new list and they tried to sneak in a promotion to take care of somebody at the last minute. The paperwork snag meant the mayor was signing off on a promotion on the same day the new list was certified.

I jumped in my car and drove straight to Boston. I didn't get promoted for another year but neither did he at all.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

My situation is that the list was requested on 4/24 and has been sitting at the whim of CS. I have been waiting for them to send out the list since last Thursday. I was told that they had to send it out within 5 to 7 days. Today was day seven and nothing. There is no question here that I will get made off of the list once it is sent. The question is which list is going to be sent. Wishfully I want the one that was current at the time of the request.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

qback275 said:


> My situation is that the list was requested on 4/24 and has been sitting at the whim of CS. I have been waiting for them to send out the list since last Thursday. I was told that they had to send it out within 5 to 7 days. Today was day seven and nothing. There is no question here that I will get made off of the list once it is sent. The question is which list is going to be sent. Wishfully I want the one that was current at the time of the request.


I hear what you say. But on the flip side, I would be upset if I was number one and you got promoted after the date of the new certification.

But as others have said, it appears your safe for now since the last test has been placed on hold because of the banding controversy.

Another unfortunate scenario could be that civil service is sitting on this requisition until they clear up the mess created by the latest exam. If that's the case, the requisition may never come.

There's a reason Chapter 31, and all the accompanying cases, is the size of the bible.

There are lawyers that make a career out of civil service law alone.

Good Luck. Been there more than once.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

How does CS have the "right" to sit on a list? It isn't fair for the people who are still sitting on "active" lists and requests have been made to fill positions. If one were to go to Boston like you did would CS be required to release the current active list?


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

The decision did not force them to make this exam active from what I have been told. And your on the job in a Civil Service community, you know better than to ask, "How does Civil Circus have the right!" They do what they want and don't explain themselves.

For example, the time it took for them to release the exam scores. It was a while after they were required to be released but they did it anyway. Because they can!


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

And for the rest, do they have to release a list when "confronted" in person and/or sent by the appointing authority to pick it up that day?


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

qback275 said:


> How does CS have the "right" to sit on a list? It isn't fair for the people who are still sitting on "active" lists and requests have been made to fill positions. If one were to go to Boston like you did would CS be required to release the current active list?


The active list and the requisition are two different things even though the results are the same.

They'll give you the active list but the requisition only goes to the appointing authority. (Since it's they that are doing the hiring of course.)

As far as sitting on a list, CS does whatever they want to do, and forces you to fight them.

Unfortunately, if your department/town/city is not pushing to get this promotion done, there is little you can do.

The other thing to keep in mind is that once someone files an injunction with an exam, it can shut down the entire process.

I've seen people promoted off of expired lists from several exams ago because they had an injunction in place and they finally won.

What I'm saying is that this recent banding injunction may or may not be bringing everything to a halt.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

How does one "push" to get the requisition sent out in a "timely" fashion? Like I said earlier all of the appointing authority paperwork was faxed and sent out last Thursday and has been "sitting" at CS for action. Our dept. historically will not requisition for a list until there is an actual vacancy. Since it's sitting in "their" hands am I stuck to just have to wait? Seems I could be doing more to help my cause.


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## 94c (Oct 21, 2005)

Again, I don't know the particulars involved but section 25 says...

*Persons on an eligible list shall be eligible for certification* from such list for such period as the administrator shall determine, but in any event not to exceed two years, *unless* one of the following exceptions applies: (1) such eligibility is extended by law because such persons are in the military or naval service; *(2) the administrator is temporarily enjoined by a court order from* *certifying names from an eligible list*, in which case eligibility of persons on such list shall be extended for a period equal to the duration of such order; or (3) no new list is established, in which case eligibility of all persons on such list shall be extended until a new list is established for the same position for which the original list was established; provided, however, that the administrator may revoke the eligibility of the entire list or of any persons on such list subsequent to said two-year period if he shall determine that the effective maintenance of the merit system so requires such revocation and, provided further, that a written notice and explanation for said revocation is sent to the clerks of the senate and house of representatives.

(The Million dollar question is whether the problems with this new exam is also affecting movement on the previous exam)

Don't know....


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

My understanding of the 11 page decision regarding the injunction is that the only thing holding up the issuance of any lists would be HRD. As long as lists are in whole number format all is good, but it "should" not hold up current active lists so ordered by the judge. My dept. just promoted 3 Capts., 3 Lt's and 3 Sgts. off of a Lt. list set to expire 3/30. The list was requisitioned by the appointing authority on 3/26 and all of the Sgts on that list were made, just about 2 to 3 weeks ago.


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

I dont believe that they have to activate the new list until the exhaust their appeals. Not what I want to happen at all! I'm not on the old list and while I wont be high enough to get made off of this list I am currently loosing out on acting time! It will all be worth it if the stop this banding SH!T!!


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

Well I'm on the flip side and the longer for this list the better. Not for banding either, but did not do as well on the new exam. Can only hope things work out.


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

Does anyone know of any CS department(s) who have requested a certified list from CS for a promotion from an active list NOT involved in the banding process and were told by CS they were not issuing lists until the banding issue has been resolved?


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

Is that what your job was told?


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## qback275 (Oct 21, 2008)

Yes. Mayor called for a list back on the 24th of April and as of this past Monday he was told no lists were being issued until the banding issue was resolved. I believe that is in violation of the court ordered injunction and this list has no bearing on the other list.

My understanding is that the current list is active until the new list is certified, now they are sitting on the current list and it has been over 11 days. Was told by CS it only takes 7 to 10 days to get a list sent out. So does that mean the people on the current list get screwed when the new list gets certified or do they go back to the date of the request and the list that was active when it was requested?


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## deltaunit18 (Jan 23, 2008)

Our department promoted one Lt. and one Sgt. off the '08 exam. They were promoted on or about 03/01. I was not invovled but it didn't seem to be a problem.


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## O-302 (Jan 1, 2006)

From the Boston Police Superior Officer's Federation website:

Our attorneys, Leah Barrault and Harold Lichten, have recently informed the Federation that the Civil Service Commission has decided not to fight the recent injunction imposed upon them regarding the banding of promotional scores from the October 2008 promotional examination. Scores are currently posted numerically on the Civil Service website and we are told that a numerical list will be posted shortly and used for future promotions as it has been done in past promotions.

We would once again like to thank our attorneys for all of their hard work in securing such an important victory ensuring that the promotional process will remain fair and impartial and in keeping with the original impetus for the creation of Civil Service.

http://www.bpsof.org/


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

What about the BPD Patrolman's Association?? They also have a stake in this.


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