# Thoughts on employment



## Guest

I have to admit, I'm a bit puzzled (and annoyed to be honest) when every job opening thread is inundated with questions about the pay, benefits, union status, etc.

When I first got out of the Army, I took every exam and applied everyplace under the sun; civil service, federal, campus, railroad....you name it, I applied for it or tested for it. I accumulated a lot of "thank you, but" letters (I saved them as a reminder), then when it rained, it poured, because I got a bunch of job offers in the span of a couple of weeks.

I looked at every department, and chose the one I thought offered the best opportunity to do police work and gain experience, since I still had my eyes on the brass ring (my current job). That was the Boston Housing Police, and I had no clue what the pay was until I got my first paycheck (I was pleasantly surprised). I know that at least one of the other jobs paid better in the long run (with more opportunity for OT and details), but it was a campus job, and no offense to any campus guys, the idea of working in the Roxbury projects was pretty appealing to a 22 year-old hard-charger.

My point is....if you really want to be a cop, the paycheck, benefits, whether they have the mystical Chapter 90 books, etc., doesn't matter. Especially in this economy; if you see a job opening within reasonable commuting distance, apply for it. If you get an offer of employment, TAKE IT!!

<rant off>


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## BLUE BLOOD

Amen brother!


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## DEI8

Never thought about pay or benefits prior to pursuing my current job. Honestly,the pay I recieve is about twice what I was expecting. I love the work I do. I greatly appreciate what I am paid and would do the same work if paid less. Not that I am saying we deserve less.


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## Mr Blonde

I have a family and a mortgage. Benefits and pay matter more to me than a high speed job. I'd obviously love to have my cake and eat it too, though. Just pointing out that not everyone is in the same situation.


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## Killjoy

I recently talked to a group of young people about a career in policing and every question was: "How do you get into the Gang Unit?", "What do I need to do to become a K9 officer?", "How do they select people for the SWAT team?", and, my favorite, thanks to CSI, "How can I get into Crime Scene Services?". I answered every one of them with the advice that maybe you should concentrate on _becoming _a police officer first without trying to map out your career in advance. When you actually get into policing new officers frequently find the niches in policing they enjoy are far different from their hollywood-fueled fantasies. I'm not saying don't have goals, but be flexible and open, as there are many paths in policing, and you may enjoy something you never expected. The big thing is, like Delta said, don't put the cart before the horse.


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## Tuna

I'm with Delta with this one. I did 14 years in hi-tech after the Army, took the EPO test and got on. Never once looked back at what I was leaving. Just knew where I wanted to be. 40% cut in pay compared to where I came from. You want the job there are some sacrifices one must make.


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## Guest

Killjoy said:


> I recently talked to a group of young people about a career in policing and every question was: "How do you get into the Gang Unit?", "What do I need to do to become a K9 officer?", "How do they select people for the SWAT team?", and, my favorite, thanks to CSI, "How can I get into Crime Scene Services?". I answered every one of them with the advice that maybe you should concentrate on _becoming _a police officer first without trying to map out your career in advance. When you actually get into policing new officers frequently find the niches in policing they enjoy are far different from their hollywood-fueled fantasies. I'm not saying don't have goals, but be flexible and open, as there are many paths in policing, and you may enjoy something you never expected. The big thing is, like Delta said, don't put the cart before the horse.


I have a part-time gig teaching CJ, and I would estimate about half of my students, at some point, make some sort of mention of wanting to get into CSI-type gigs like forensic sciences. I admit I get a bit of guilty pleasure when I throw the wet blanket on their fantasies when I tell them they're going to have to spend several years shagging calls in a cruiser before they get a specialist position, or if they aspire to be a civilian lab tech, they should be studying a natural science instead of criminal justice.

Likewise, it both amuses and annoys me when I see someone come on my job, and immediately start kissing ass and angling for a specialist position.....why the hell did you take the test if you think shagging 911 calls is beneath you? I did time working drugs, working in the mounted unit, and now I'm back where I started in patrol.

No regrets.....this is why I wanted to become a cop.


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## gm7988

Literally yesterday I was at a grad party and people from NJ were talking about how some of their departments make tons of money. No one seemed to understand I'm not in it for the money, it's what I want to do because I have a passion for it.

To get things in perspective for them, I said the LAPD (dream job) could pay me $25,000 a year and make me work a second job. I just want to get on and start doing what it is I feel I was born to do!

When I got the part time position the pay was $13.25 an hour and I couldn't careless, I was getting a chance to get out there!

In every single application or interview or hiring process I've gone through, asking for salary and benefits is truthfully the last thing on my mind.

I just want to get out there and show people what I've got and hopefully be damn good at it!

---------- Post added at 22:05 ---------- Previous post was at 22:04 ----------



Killjoy said:


> I recently talked to a group of young people about a career in policing and every question was: "How do you get into the Gang Unit?", "What do I need to do to become a K9 officer?", "How do they select people for the SWAT team?", and, *my favorite, thanks to CSI, "How can I get into Crime Scene Services?"*. I answered every one of them with the advice that maybe you should concentrate on _becoming _a police officer first without trying to map out your career in advance. When you actually get into policing new officers frequently find the niches in policing they enjoy are far different from their hollywood-fueled fantasies. I'm not saying don't have goals, but be flexible and open, as there are many paths in policing, and you may enjoy something you never expected. The big thing is, like Delta said, don't put the cart before the horse.


Thanks to this stupid piece of junk show I had to take forensic science in college. Yes, it was interesting but shit it was hard!


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## CJIS

I agree If you are fresh out of college or military and never done the job then take what you can. 

However if you are in the position of wanting to advance or move from where you are, the questions of pay and benefits are important. If you fall into the category of someone that is looking to move on from where they are and advance I think a real important question that should be asked is how is the Moral of the Dept. But don't take the word from people that have never worked there. If a member answers a job posting saying they work there and will answer any questions via PM them, do it.


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## Guest

CJIS said:


> I agree If you are fresh out of college or military and never done the job then take what you can.
> 
> However if you are in the position of wanting to advance or move from where you are, the questions of pay and benefits are important. If you fall into the category of someone that is looking to move on from where they are and advance I think a real important question that should be asked is how is the Moral of the Dept. But don't take the word from people that have never worked there. If a member answers a job posting saying they work there and will answer any questions via PM them, do it.


The thing is, about 99.99999% of MA jobs posted here are entry-level, and the inevitable questions usually come from people who I've never heard of, so it's pretty obvious they're young and looking to enter the field of policing.


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## Guest

I know that I have started a few different topics and have asked a lot of questions regarding employment, training, etc in Massachusetts. I know that I could go back down south and pick up where I left off as a deputy sheriff, however, I want to stay close to home and near family here in New England. With that said, I would be more than happy to have any full time law enforcement job offered to me here. Wouldn't matter if it was a campus or town job. Once I get my feet wet in law enforcement here, it will be 'easier' to move on to something else after I had gained more experience and training. For now I will do the absolute best job I can as a FT dispatcher. 

For all those who have answered questions for me in the past and will most likely do in the future, I very much appreciate it and thank you!

Enough sappy time. How about those Red Sox and their 14 inning adventure tonight?? :beer_yum:


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## cc3915

I started at $220./wk and was tickled pink that I got the job.


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## 7costanza

After 9/11 I sold my house, quit sales and took a job in security making 9 bucks an hr. Although they refused to send anyone anymore I haggled my way into the Reserve Academy, paid for it myself. In the Academy I searched out OC, baton and 1st responder training, all on my dime just to make myself a better candidate. In the end I got about as screwed as anyone I have ever seen but thats another thread.


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## csauce777

gm7988 said:


> To get things in perspective for them, I said the LAPD (dream job) could pay me $25,000 a year and make me work a second job. I just want to get on and start doing what it is I feel I was born to do!


Uhh...LAPD starts at nearly twice that. Just saying.

"The starting base salary for high school graduates is $45,226. If you have at least 60 college units, with an overall GPA of 2.0 or better, you will start at $47,043. If you have a BA or BS (four year) degree you will start at $48,880.

You begin earning your full salary on your first day of Academy training."


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## gm7988

Why don't you go ahead and re-read what i wrote before trying to make me look like an idiot.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------

Hmm that was harsh, I apologize. I wrote could pay for a reason, I know the starting pay and all that jazz about the LAPD. I was figuratively speaking.


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## Guest

I hear it all the time from a good friend who bitches about new kids on the job that want days/weekends off right from the get-go... I would choke those people until they turned BLURPLE.


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## Johnny Law

5-0 said:


> I hear it all the time from a good friend who bitches about new kids on the job that want days/weekends off right from the get-go... I would choke those people until they turned BLURPLE.


Hells yeah!!!


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## csauce777

gm7988 said:


> Why don't you go ahead and re-read what i wrote before trying to make me look like an idiot.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------
> 
> Hmm that was harsh, I apologize. I wrote could pay for a reason, I know the starting pay and all that jazz about the LAPD. I was figuratively speaking.


Ha ha...I was about to blast back cuz I wasn't trying to make you look stupid, I was just posting it for the hell of it. Then I saw your retraction. My apologies too, wasn't trying to bust balls. I got what you meant. Lol


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## Pvt. Cowboy

5-0 said:


> I hear it all the time from a good friend who bitches about new kids on the job that want days/weekends off right from the get-go... I would choke those people until they turned BLURPLE.


Wait... You mean I'd have to work Sunday's? I'm out...

Blurple... Where do you get some an awesome vocabulary??


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## Guest

5-0 said:


> I hear it all the time from a good friend who bitches about new kids on the job that want days/weekends off right from the get-go... I would choke those people until they turned BLURPLE.


I like (not) the ones who think they should automatically get Christmas Eve off because they have children.


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## gm7988

Posting from ny iphone so i can't quote i don't think. But anyways i had to take forensic science because of csi. It was added to rwu's cirruculum because kids want to do what that clown in the show does. My teacher was one of the top forensic scientists for the DEA rhode island lab so he had some great photos and good stuff to teach. 

I've read stuff on officer.com about people getting on the job and quitting because of forced ot and working holidays. How do you go through such an exhausting process and not realize what it is you're signing up for?? 

I love that quote from the starsky and hutch movie

Sorry i'm late
Its ok crime called in sick it got a late start too


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## Guest

gm7988 said:


> I've read stuff on officer.com about people getting on the job and quitting because of forced ot and working holidays. How do you go through such an exhausting process and not realize what it is you're signing up for??


It's because TV and the movies very rarely show the non-glamourous aspects of the job, such as kissing your kids goodbye on Christmas Eve because you have to work. The TV show _Third Watch _came pretty close, but no one is going to sit and watch a cop trying to stay awake at 3:30am in the parking lot of a closed business.


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## csauce777

Delta784 said:


> a cop trying to stay awake at 3:30am


Lmao...BS. I'm calling shenanigans.


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## Guest

csauce777 said:


> Lmao...BS. I'm calling shenanigans.


From the sounds of it, our midnight shift isn't getting much down time these days....going almost all night.


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## csauce777

Delta784 said:


> From the sounds of it, our midnight shift isn't getting much down time these days....going almost all night.


Ugh.


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## Herrdoktor

Delta784 said:


> From the sounds of it, our midnight shift isn't getting much down time these days....going almost all night.


Welcome to my world


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## SinePari

My fav is when the crime scene expert is portrayed by the edgy chick with the tight lycra shirt and suit blazer wearing a badge and a gun. For some strange reason, yougins think a forensics scientist is a sworn position and chases the perp through back alleys and slaps the cuffs on them, all wrapped up in a 60 minutes. However, I am encouraged to see interest by noobies in the field of crime scene. I'd just steer them toward a degree in forensic science or chemistry and to seek employment for a state crime lab, rather than a degree in CJ and humping shitty calls all night.


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## honor12900

Delta784 said:


> From the sounds of it, our midnight shift isn't getting much down time these days....going almost all night.


I know how they feel.


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## LA Copper

Delta784 said:


> From the sounds of it, our midnight shift isn't getting much down time these days....going almost all night.


That sounds good to me. Going all night is what I live for; it makes the night go by faster, it's more fun, and it makes me feel more like I earned my paycheck.


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## Guest

LA Copper said:


> That sounds good to me. Going all night is what I live for; it makes the night go by faster, it's more fun, and it makes me feel more like I earned my paycheck.


The ideal night for me is a string of hit & run calls with minimal paperwork....next thing you know, it's 10:30pm.

As for earning the paycheck, an old-timer once said to me "We don't get paid for what we do, we get paid for what we might have to do".


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## LA Copper

Delta784 said:


> As for earning the paycheck, an old-timer once said to me "We don't get paid for what we do, we get paid for what we might have to do".


I've heard that many times over the years. I'd prefer to be doing it more often than not, which is one of the reasons I like working the big city. To each their own I guess.


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## Deuce

LA Copper said:


> Going all night is what I live for; it makes the night go by faster, it's more fun, and it makes me feel more like I earned my paycheck.


Wait wait wait.. Aren't you a sgt?? Stop the nonsense, we all know you ain't doing shit, so stop playing....


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## gm7988

Actually i sent LA a text last friday and he was walking a beat in gang territory.


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## 263FPD

Delta, truer words have never been spoken. I just had a very similar conversation with a friend who is still waiting to hear on the outcome of his process with the MSP.

I tried and I tried to get on in the early 90's. There were contless "Thanks, but no thanks letters." I even lost out on a position back in 1995 due to faililng the sit-ups portion of my PAT.... TWICE!!! I was still fresh from a pretty bad car wreck that messed up my back but good. And then..... Holy crap, three job offers all at once. Two were from Campus PD's and one from the job that I ultimately took and been at ever since. I was at that time living in Boston right on Williams Avenue in Hyde Park. People here know what that means. Those who do not, it is the same road that the Boston Police Academy is on.

I took that year's test anyway, though it looked like that the job was finally mine. I was not taking chances, I was going cover myself.

Two months out of academy, I moved back in to the town that employed me. I then got a card from Boston, I had a 99 on that test. I was ranked in the top 200 or so, that almost certainly meant an interview. Being just out of the academy, I had no desire to repeat the process again, so I declined. Do I regret it? In a way I do. It isn't that the pay in Boston was better. It was and still is. It is a simple fact that there are more opportunities in a big department.

I too get annoyed when people start posting inane questions on the employment threads. It's a cop job, people. Do you really give shit how much it pays if you are entry level? I can see questions like that coming from someone who already has a job but simply wants a change. 

To all you aspiring LEO's, don't worry about the pay just yet. Worry more about getting your foot in the door. Money is secondary when you are going after a dream. And let's face it boys and girls, it is a dream in this state. LE jobs are few and far in between these days, but these things run in cycles. I know thatg between early 1990's to about 2005, my PD hired like mad. We were hiring latterals and new officers in batches, the last time we hired, we only put on one.

The other thing I will say to all you who are looking, at some point you may come to a conclusion that it simply will never happen for you. It doesn't always mean that you are worthless or not worthy. Sometimes you are just overlooked. In a lot of cases though, there are those ho should not be allowed to wash the hub-caps on cruisers, let alone be cops. In many cases, these same shit-bags, somehow squeeze through the process making some of us say, "What the fuck?"

Going back to the original message, don't worry too much about the pay. That can come later. For every asshole who decides not to apply for a job that may pay a bit bellow their standard, there will be 20 assholes who will eagerly take their place if an opportunity is presented to them.


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## Guest

263FPD said:


> The other thing I will say to all you who are looking, at some point you may come to a conclusion that it simply will never happen for you. It doesn't always mean that you are worthless or not worthy. Sometimes you are just overlooked.


I worked with a guy at a Boston SPO job who I would still rank in the top 5 people I would want having my back on a hot call. He got on a railroad PD, eventually got laid-off, and couldn't get on another PD in this state. Very intelligent guy who was a fantastic cop, but he just didn't do well on standardized tests, so he got bypassed. He's now a supervisor for a sheriff's department in Florida.


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## 263FPD

Delta784 said:


> I worked with a guy at a Boston SPO job who I would still rank in the top 5 people I would want having my back on a hot call. He got on a railroad PD, eventually got laid-off, and couldn't get on another PD in this state. Very intelligent guy who was a fantastic cop, but he just didn't do well on standardized tests, so he got bypassed. *He's now a supervisor for a sheriff's department in Florida*.


I do love a happy ending.

That reminds me, To all you who are seeking LE employment, and are being rejected.....

MOVE SOUTH, people. The are still hiring there!!! EVERY DAY!!!


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## Deuce

gm7988 said:


> Actually i sent LA a text last friday and he was walking a beat in gang territory.


Huh? A "working" sgt?? Wow, it really is bizzaro world out there... Good on ya LA..


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## csauce777

Deuce said:


> gm7988 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Actually i sent LA a text last friday and he was walking a beat in gang territory.
> 
> 
> 
> Huh? A "working" sgt?? Wow, it really is bizzaro world out there... Good on ya LA..
Click to expand...

Yeah, he's good people.


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## LA Copper

Deuce said:


> Huh? A "working" sgt?? Wow, it really is bizzaro world out there... Good on ya LA..


22+ years and still love being out there in the middle of it.


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## gm7988

I don't mean to be rude but why don't you travel and look for other departments?


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## Herrdoktor

Waiting 9 years for a law enforcement job is about as New England as you can get.


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## LA Copper

Herrdoktor said:


> Waiting 9 years for a law enforcement job is about as New England as you can get.


Time doesn't change some things. I waited almost 6 years back in the 80s before I finally headed out here to Los Angeles.


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## Herrdoktor

LA Copper said:


> Time doesn't change some things. I waited almost 6 years back in the 80s before I finally headed out here to Los Angeles.


I waited about that before going to VA.

They must brainwash us as kids or something


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## Guest

Holbrook said:


> To get to where I needed to be, as a senior in High School, I entered into an internship with the PD I am trying to get on. Upon graduating in 2002, I joined the Marines to help my chances of becoming a police officer. After returning from active duty including a deployment, I entered the security industry while I wait. Test after test, with residence preference and veterans status, nothing. All I could and can do is network and take in all of the advice I can get.
> 
> As a recent college grad with a B.S. in Criminal Justice, I am more frustrated than happy, as Governor Patrick withdrew the Quinn Bill. Even if I did get the position, I have lots of debt that the Quinn bill will not help me pay off. I graduated the reserve/ intermittent Plymouth police academy while working full-time as a Security Manager and attending college full time. I am 5[SUP]th[/SUP] on the list for this town and since the test I moved to another town. I have had two official phone calls from the department and I have no room for negative thoughts. I have tried to get on this department for nearly nine years&#8230;what's another 3 months?
> 
> On paper, I am what they want all day all night. But if I cannot effectively present myself in the manner that they are looking for, I will not make the cut.


I "liked" your post, only because I sympathize with you, and admire your desire to stay "home", not because you haven't been able to get a job.

---------- Post added at 02:59 ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 ----------



LA Copper said:


> Time doesn't change some things. I waited almost 6 years back in the 80s before I finally headed out here to Los Angeles.


When I got out of the Army and started testing/applying everywhere, I set my limit at age 28; if I didn't get on somewhere here by then, I would have gone out-of-state (Florida or California most likely).

I was *EXTREMELY* fortunate (which I realize more and more as I read the employment section) that I got hired at age 22, then got my dream job at age 28, with the option (which I took) of rolling over my pension contributions, so I can pull the pin at age 55.


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## mpguy

Holbrook, 
have you ever thought of moving to Boston for a year? If your a vet, and your having a tough time getting in, and your that determined to get in, then maybe a move to Boston would be beneficial. My cousin moved there about 2 years ago and i'm pretty sure he's well on his way. Just a suggestion... Also if your a vet with a 4 year degree, maybee you should take a look at the feds. Good luck bud


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## LGriffin

Well said, Delta! My first "LE job" was non-compensatory and required at least 16 hours weekly but they sponsored for RI and that's a foot in the door. These whipper snappers now a days think they can just walk into the PD and get a job without earning it


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## LA Copper

Holbrook,

Do you want to meet up? I'll be near Pembroke next week. In fact, I'll probably be playing golf at Pembroke Country Club pretty soon if you want to head out for a round. Maybe talking to someone who has "been there, done that," will help.


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