# Great Seal Of The Commonwealth



## Guest (Dec 26, 2003)

I know this topic was brought up before in the Constable forum and was debated for awhile. Tuesday I had the pleasure of meeting w/ an attorney for the Secretary of States Office, who I put the question to as to who is and who isnt allowed to use the state seal. He said the seal can only be used by fulltime state employees, I asked him about Constables using the state seal and he said they are not allowed to use it, nor are Hospital police depts, unless it is a state hospital, and private college police are not allowed to use the seal either not even on there badges.

What I also found interesting is that Deputy Sheriffs who work in the jails can have the seal on there badge, however those that work for the Civil Process/ Writ Offices for the Sheriffs Offices can not use the seal because they are not full time state employees but are private business.

Also even though some officers are sworn in as Constables/Deputy Sheriffs or SSPO"S if they do not work for the commonwealth of Massachusetts but instead a private college or hospital, there not allowed to use the seal on there badges or any other capacity, I was told it doesnt matter where the derive there police powers from if the enity they work for is not a state agency there in violation.


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## Mortal knight (Jun 17, 2003)

I didn't read the afore mention thread, but from what you wrote, auxiliary officers should also NOT wear the seal. Auxiliary are not fulltime (yet I get called at the last minute to do details, which makes it a fulltime on-call position :lol: ) 

And even though the State created the Auxiliary Position and dictates how we can be used, we get our arrest powers from the city/ town.

SOoooooooooooooo, even though you mention constables &amp; Sheriffs, Am I wrong for having the Seal on my badge? As an Aux


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2003)

Mortal knight said:


> SOoooooooooooooo, even though you mention constables & Sheriffs, Am I wrong for having the Seal on my badge? As an Aux


 Hold on tight I am sure some of the boards executioners should be answering your question soon!


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## texdep (Aug 28, 2003)

This post made me curious. So take a look at the two links I found that relate.

http://www.state.ma.us/legis/laws/mgl/2-5.htm

http://www.state.ma.us/sec/pre/presea/sealhis.htm[/url]


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2003)

Mortal-

what type of arrest powers are you mentioning? the city i work in only grants the auxiliary officers "citizens arrest" or if the aux officer is backing up another ft officer. 

i'm not flaming you, just curious  



Dooty


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## Mortal knight (Jun 17, 2003)

When we are "called to action" by the Chief of Police, and "in uniform", we have as much police powers as the regular officers of the city, But here is the disclaimer: We can make arrests, BUT it is our Auxiliry Department policy to call the regulars to make the arrest. I was told that the reasoning is *liablity*. Which makes sense to me. I am not getting paid to wrestle someone to the ground, cuff'em, book them, then take a day (some times several) days off from my PAYING job to sit in court.

So Dooty the short paper answer is same as the regulars, the actual practiced answer, NO POWERS WHAT SO EVER. But the powers are there if we need them.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

This is such drivel...I can't stand it!!!!!!!!!!
:shock: 

There seem to be only two (2) ways to put this to rest;

1. Have the Massachusetts Secretary-of-State appoint police under MGL CH.22C to go out and end the menace of state-seal abuse.
:L: 
or
2. Realize that "advertising or commercial purposes" means relative to making a profit or engaging in commerce. Security/public safety/EMS/etc. are not retail or advertising entities. So in the end, who really gives a rat's ass about this mundane topic? 
:-({|=


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## CampusOfficer (Dec 29, 2002)

mpd61 said:


> This is such drivel


I like the word "drivel."


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2003)

Hey from the way I understood what the attorney told me Regular fulltime officers are not technically suppose to use the seal. There suppose to use the seal of the city or town where there employed.

Trivial????????? this subject??? yes I go along w/that, I just thought it was an interesting piece of info though, hey any officer who charges someone w/this this offense in my opinon has serious issues.That would have to be one board cop.

Just my :2c:


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## MCOA41 (Sep 5, 2002)

*so*

So almost every cop, firefighter, emt and dispatcher in this state is breaking the law.

I know of only one community in Western MA that uses the city seal on the badges and that is Westfiled (PD and FD).

And yes this is drivel and even if it is illegal for all the above to have the state seal on thier badge I doubt the SP has the time, man power or desire to go and enforce it. Nor do the communities have the money to have the seal of their town/city made into center for all the badges. $$$$


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2003)

*Re: so*



MCOA41 said:


> So almost every cop, firefighter, emt and dispatcher in this state is breaking the law.


According to the Secretary of State, Yes they are.

City/Town I know of that use there respective seals:

Everett-Pd &Fd
Cambridge-Pd&Fd
Boston-PD&Fd
Chelsea-Pd&FD
Revere -Pd&Fd
Malden -Pd&Fd
Medford-Pd-FD

"I doubt the SP has the time, man power or desire to go and enforce it"

Think again.

Oh dont mistake what I'm saying I think its very trivial, and a waste of SP's time as well as anyone elses, I was just sharing what I heard w/ my fellow board members.


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## union1 (Sep 18, 2002)

Just my Oppinion here, I agree that Private Colleges should not wear the seal by law. I think that College Police Agencies should create something unique and put the College Seal inside the badge. 

Now lets start Blasting my oppinon people!!


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## ecpd402 (Sep 18, 2002)

I remember a certain past officer on my department, who tried to place a unique seal on his campus police badge and was shot down. I am for the use of the college seal on campus police badges


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2003)

OK I'll get the fire burning on Boston Common under my smelter. Everyone who has the Mass seal on their badge but shouldn't, can come there next Saturday and toss their tin into the hot boiling molten metal and we can start from scratch. 

Hunter, this is an interesting thread but technically unenforceable. Maybe we should get US AG Ashcroft on this matter after he is through stripping our liberties away. Better yet, get AG Rielly, he likes to make up his own laws as he goes along to suit himself or his favorite voting block.


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## Guest (Dec 27, 2003)

HousingCop said:


> Hunter, this is an interesting thread but technically unenforceable. Maybe we should get US AG Ashcroft on this matter after he is through stripping our liberties away. Better yet, get AG Rielly, he likes to make up his own laws as he goes along to suit himself or his favorite voting block.


Oh I know, some do though.I wonder how others feel about those who enforce it?


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## JohnBarleycorn (Jul 8, 2003)

What's next? Can't wear the US Flag on right shoulder without a letter from Congress?


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## Crvtte65 (May 19, 2002)

I think it's an interesting topic Hunter. There is a CMR on it but no version available online 950 CMR 34.00 and in comparison, US Code:

_Title 4 Chapter 2 § 42. - Same; custody and use of

The Secretary of State shall have the custody and charge of such seal. Except as provided by section 2902(a) of title 5, the seal shall not be affixed to any instrument without the special warrant of the President therefor_



> What's next? Can't wear the US Flag on right shoulder without a letter from Congress?


Title 4 Chapter 1 § 8

_(j)

No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart. _


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## masstoazcop (Dec 3, 2003)

*State Seal*

When I worked at M.I.T, we had the state seal on our badges and I think they are still using them.

I will never understand why politicians go out of the way to create laws that appear to alienate the different law enforcement agencies from each other.(MSP. municipal, MBTA. campus, etc) in the state.

Mass should catch up with the times and pass a bill that would allow police officers, deputy sheriffs and campus police officers who have graduated from the MPOC academy a "STATE"certified officer who has the lawful authority to make a lawful arrest any where in the state. I know this is a radical idea, but so is elliminating civil service but most will agree of getting rid of it (civil service).

I remember my one of my instructors in the Reading Academy tell the class the biggest grip between police agencies is "Jurisdiction" and boy he was right. 
I


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## Muggsy09 (Feb 12, 2003)

Is it really that big of a deal wheather or not a person is wearing a pin or not. I work at a private college and all the officers, security or police wear the MA seal and have since the department was started. To be honest I couldn't care less what pins we wear on our uniform or what the center seal of the badge is.


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

If it really is an issue then the state should address it with the Dealers/sellers....


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## Guest (Dec 29, 2003)

RPD931 said:


> If it really is an issue then the state should address it with the Dealers/sellers....


"DITTO"


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## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

*Trivial????????? this subject??? yes I go along w/that, I just thought it was an interesting piece of info though, hey any officer who charges someone w/this this offense in my opinon has serious issues.That would have to be one board cop*.

Well I can answer you. Since I am not bored and I HAVE charged someone with this offense I believe (unless someone else here meets your criteria) I am the only one qualified to answer.

I cannot give too much information which will most likely work to my disadvantage with some here because the entire story is not disclosed. The reason? This case goes to trial in the Spring. Yes, trial. It has already passed the Showcause stage, the arraignment stage, the pre-trial hearing stage and is set for trial. This particular charge is just one of 4 filed. After a six week investigation involving six agencies in three cities, all charges including this were presented to the District Attorney himself by his First Assistant. After a few days, the answer was the charges are well worth prosecuting and deemed appropriate for the case. If a conviction is reached, I belive it may be a first. Again, I can't divulge more details and I am sure rumors and specualtion will abound about what the case involves.

I would just like to point out two examples of significant criminal prosecutions that used little known or trivial laws to take down major criminals. Compare murder and crimes of violence et al to income tax evasion. Which one is prosecuted more? Yet it was the latter, a trivial paper crime.....that took down Al Capone.

Compare murder and crimes of violence et al to mail fraud. Mail fraud. I would bet most if not all would say they have never charged someone with that and it is trivial if not unknown by most departments. Yet an entire cartel drug operation in 1993 was taken down because someone found that charge in a law book and applied it...to a successful conviction.

You could argue that the cops who found those charges and saw the light may have been bored......or sharp enough to realize that there is more than the obvious way to catch a criminal.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2003)

USMC,

Well thank you for mentioning you can only tell half the story since it has yet to go to trial. As we all know, 1/2 a story fuels rumor &amp; speculation as to what really happened. I am not privy to the case so I will refrain from making any type of comment on it......................................for now. 

I can see the state seal for what it is, a bunch of Latin inscriptions and some poor downtrodden Native American who we stole land from. The seal is so generic on it's surface that I think it's use by agencies other than than those employed by the state itself is not such a harmful thing. 

I could see if a state agency took the seal and tweaked it a bit to make it unique to them and them alone, and then someone used it, then that should be a violation. But as it stands now, being so plain, I think private colleges and institutions should be able to use the version as it stands now. I don't think LOMAC should be seen wearing it on his Smoket hat though. 

I do remember reading somewhere that Al Capone had a courtesy badge issued to him and it had the Mass seal applied. Too bad they probably didn't have that law back then huh? He would have done alot more time on the "ROCK" for that crime too. 
:L:


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2003)

USMC,

Atleast you mentioned 1st before you went on about who and why you charged someone w/the aforementioned trivial chrage. I think we all know to well how some things get distorted here.

But nevertheless you do agree it is a trivial charge? Right? Granted it was used as an end to a means or should I say as a tool/key to open doors to really see whats going on and get the bad guy. Hoorah for you.

But at face value it really isnt much of a charge thats what I was saying, I wasnt even thinking on the lines you described but I guess if your after a big fish youre right it is a tool to get in the door.

And more so I found it ironic how sooooo many depts and individuals use the seal everyday and have no idea there not suppose to, but it has become so common place.


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## Irish Wampanoag (Apr 6, 2003)

*Re: State Seal*

I will never understand why politicians go out of the way to create laws that appear to alienate the different law enforcement agencies from each other.(MSP. municipal, MBTA. campus, etc) in the state.

I think its other police agancies and their unions who go out of their way to alienate other law enforcement agencies. If you have read other threads you would see that. (Please dont think I am being a wise ass I am just making a point)
From the, I have the best training and no one trains better then we do. To the, what are they doing in my jurisdiction we did not asked them for their help we are the only LE Deptment in this town/city/state attitude, Oh please! Unfortunately we are our far worst enemy then some fruit cake politician.

Now back to the topic. I believe what HousingCop said the State Seal should be allowed to be used by any licensed police officer city, private or state. Police need to have some kind of universal identification insignia and the State Seal is perfect. If I pull you over and you are a police officer and you pull out a badge that has a private college or city or town insignia on it I might mistake you for a security officer or something. That same thing might happen if an off duty officer response to a felony I am responding to (believe me it has happen to me on serveral occassions) I would like to see a universal insignia so I can immediately determine who is a police officer and who is not. If I see a city or private college insignia I might not recognize it immediately. A State Seal on your badge would be a better identification tool to use.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2003)

*Re: State Seal*



BHCCPD said:


> I will never understand why politicians go out of the way to create laws that appear to alienate the different law enforcement agencies from each other.(MSP. municipal, MBTA. campus, etc) in the state.
> 
> I think its other police agancies and their unions who go out of their way to alienate other law enforcement agencies. If you have read other threads you would see that. (Please dont think I am being a wise ass I am just making a point)
> From the, I have the best training and no one trains better then we do. To the, what are they doing in my jurisdiction we did not asked them for their help we are the only LE Deptment in this town/city/state attitude, Oh please! Unfortunately we are our far worst enemy then some fruit cake politician.


AMEN

Now welcome to MassCops.Com BHCCPD now make sure you dont go patroling the 99 parking lot or riding up and down the prison point bridge and god forbid you park to close to Boston Sand and Gravel, you might piss off another agency.

It does get pretty caddy around here sometimes, just make sure you have high boots on because it does get deep.


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

Bunker Hill / Charlestown area has TOO many damn agencies patroliing the area.

State
Boston
Municipal
Boston Housing?
NPS Park Rangers


The Navy Yard alone has:
State
NPS Park Rangers
Boston
Municipal
MGH Police

But yet they still have a ton of issues.... They gotta get rid of that housing project, its bringing down the neighborhood. Most of the Criminals are from that 'hood. Am I right Thimios??


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## masstoazcop (Dec 3, 2003)

*Valid Point*

Everyone has presented a valid point about the issue at hand but from the onset one could misconstrue the topic. Example:

Campus cop patrolling their area in a fully marked cruiser and getting pulled over to have charges filed against them for unauthorized wearing of the state seal. To me, that's crazy, but as MC trooper had pointed out, it is another tool we as police officer can used to charge a dirt bag with.

THis has been a very interesting topic to discuss.


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## Guest (Dec 30, 2003)

*Re: Valid Point*



masstoazcop said:


> Everyone has presented a valid point about the issue at hand but from the onset one could misconstrue the topic. Example:
> 
> Campus cop patrolling their area in a fully marked cruiser and getting pulled over to have charges filed against them for unauthorized wearing of the state seal. To me, that's crazy, but as MC trooper had pointed out, it is another tool we as police officer can used to charge a dirt bag with.
> 
> THis has been a very interesting topic to discuss.


How do you enforce something when most PD and PO's violate it? and how rare of an instance is this, is MSP going to go around to the private colleges and charge the PD's for using it, probably not. But would a municipal cop charge someone w/ it if they themselves where in violation of this law? Probably because most dont think anything about it.

I dont know the context in which USMC Trooper applied this violation, he claims its an ongoing case so we have to resepect that he cant speak much to it.Although I hope when it is said and done he will fill in the blanks for us, or give us what he can present day to help us understand.

But I would venture to say it must be a rare occasion when this law is applied..


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## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: Valid Point*



Hunter said:


> How do you enforce something when most PD and PO's violate it? and how rare of an instance is this, is MSP going to go around to the private colleges and charge the PD's for using it, probably not. But would a municipal cop charge someone w/ it if they themselves where in violation of this law? Probably because most dont think anything about it.


Would anyone here vested with Ch 90 and writes for it care to answer this? How many times do we stop each other off duty for speeding-but write people for....speeding? How many local cops here have ever been stopped for speeding in their own car in uniform to and from work? Red light? Expired inspection stickers?? I don't know about out East but it happens here weekly. Is this also a case of "enforcing something when most PD's and PO's violate it"? If such a charge involving the Great Seal is trivial, I would venture to say then speeding, red light violations, et al are more important. So why do cops who themselves violate those laws, write others who do?? Simple-it happens everywhere, everday in all facets of life. Doctors charge us, but not each other? Resturant workers eat for free, but charge everyone else? Employees of one company get freebies or deep discounts on products while the regular consumer doesn't?

I would bet to say some departments have given breaks in criminal matters (OUI, etc) for another cop. So it is a double standard but that shouldn't prevent you from doing your job and using whatever laws you have available to do it......


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Jeezus!

I hope that the Filing of the charge was the last of a series of more SERIOUS types. Too bad we can't know more eh?


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

If this case is similiar to Al Capone then I will be waiting with baited breath each time I step out to get the paper I will be waiting to see the case of the century on the front page :shock: . 6 weeks. 6 agencies, tax payers $ and a partridge in a pear tree later :roll: I will hope to see nothing less then several major felonies connected to this "seal caper". I don't know of any drug dealers that flaunt the state seal on their fubu jackets and if so how does that connect them to the drugs? 
What I mean is how does the state seal relate to mail fraud et al. Many of the violators are officials, law enforcement etc. This seems to be a discression issue more then anything else. Where do you draw the line with the discression? Mall Security on their badge is bad but Part-time Ptl. Joe is ok. Speeding is wrong and, your right officers extend the better half of their discression to other officers. Since this issue deals with mostly officers where does the discression come into play.

Can I be so bold as to ask to who was charged? An officer...part time, auxilliary, cadet etc...or was it a citizen playing make believe?

P.S. (NO seals were injured in the production of this post) :L:


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

Look at what my dligent research found, hold on to your Boot Straps this ones a doozy.

C268 S35

CHAPTER 268. CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC JUSTICE

Chapter 268: Section 35 Unauthorized use of town seal; making or possessing badge of town officer

Section 35. Whoever, without being duly authorized thereto, prints, stamps, engraves or affixes, or causes to be printed, stamped, engraved or affixed to any paper or other article a representation of the seal of a town in the commonwealth, with intent to give to such paper or article an official character which it does not possess, or, without being duly authorized thereto, and with intent to assume an official character which he does not possess, casts, stamps, engraves, makes or has in his possession a badge or thing in the likeness of an official badge of a police officer, member of a fire department, or other officer appointed by a town in the commonwealth, or by any department of such town, shall be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars.

Note: the whopping fine a whole $ 50 dollars :shock:

But if you really want to put them in the poor house you could opt not to let them go for that C89 S9 :L:

P.S. Watch out you campus guys and muni's MSP is going to start garnishing your wages until you remove the seal off your badges, :L:


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## MVS (Jul 2, 2003)

*Re: Valid Point*

USMCTrooper Quote:



> If such a charge involving the Great Seal is trivial, I would venture to say then speeding, red light violations, et al are more important.


The great seal?..It's hideous.... nothing great about it in my eyes...

Like housingcop said:


> I can see the state seal for what it is, a bunch of Latin inscriptions and some poor downtrodden Native American who we stole land from. The seal is so generic on it's surface that I think it's use by agencies other than than those employed by the state itself is not such a harmful thing.


 USMCTrooper quote:


> I would bet to say some departments have given breaks in criminal matters (OUI, etc) for another cop.


 :x Shame on the PO's that give others breaks in Criminal matters. PO's are supposed to be "Role Models", and need to behave as such. Especially for OUI, letting someone go because they're a PO is bogus... same with covering up by giving them a ride home.. And remember the Beverly Cops son Domestic later turned murder suicide? The dear father (cop) didn't log the call, covering up for his son...Hold them accountable at a higher standard.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

*Re: Valid Point*

[/quote]

:x Shame on the PO's that give others breaks in Criminal matters. PO's are supposed to be "Role Models", and need to behave as such..[/quote]

I agree to a point, officers are given discretion for a reason. Cops are people too and should be subject to the same standard as one would give to any other person especially in a criminal matter. ie if you would let a citizen go for OUI then you should let the cop go for it too. There shouldnt be two catagories one for citizens and one for cops. The same discretion you show the public is the same you should show other officers who find themselves in embarrasing situations.

t: lets try and stay on track here.


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## USMCTrooper (Oct 23, 2003)

Hunter said:


> P.S. Watch out you campus guys and muni's MSP is going to start garnishing your wages until you remove the seal off your badges, :L:


Hunter,
I get the distinct impression you are portraying the MSP as some agency out to get the rest of the world on this technical offense. Since I seem to be the only one here who has used this law and I am a Trooper, I further believe you are directing such inference at me. Now opinions are fine and good debate is better. However, since you don't walk in my boots, do not know a thing about this case, nor will you until it is over, you have absolutely no clue about why this law was used and in what application. I would also venture to say as a constable, you have never ever conducted an actual CRIMINAL investigation in your life. By your own past admissions, you serve civil process. That is a so far removed from investigating criminal enterprises you might as well be performing brain surgery.

The measure of a law is not the penalty. Anyone familiar with 85-16 is aware of it's nominal fine. Yet confident, sharp Police Officers have used this successfully to obtain the names of vehicle occupants which led to more significant charges or their arrest. This simple original law is key to establishing the platform for the subsequent charges. That's basic knowledge for any sharp Police Officer. You call 268-35 a "doozy". I say the fine is a "doozy". Make it tougher. The first glaring thing that strikes me is the Post 9/11 world we live in. Who wouldn't want it to be a crime for someone to fake an official looking document? To convict for impersonating a Police Officer you must have the act of the defendant claiming to be just that. Absent that, that particular charge won't stick. However, if someone waves around a badge or a patch on a jacket, wears a badge with the word Police and the Commonwealth seal, flashes a homemade ID showing them in uniform with the State Seal on it, what do you propose the Police do? Do you think they should be given a pat on the head and a cookie and told don't do it again??? Especially nowadays?? Again, how many criminal investigations into these type scenarios have you done? As a constable I would say none. I didn't write the law nor did I make a ruling on it. I simply use what I had. I also have used 90-7N 1/2 and 90-7N 1/4 to stop vehicles resulting in 94C and warrant arrests. Does anyone here even know what they are and have they ever used them? Each is a "whooping $25" in case you ask.

Two interesting stories for everyone's reading pleasure:

http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/localnews/20031217badge1217p5.asp

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-96/04-03-96/1morse.htm


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## Macop (May 2, 2002)

So if you use the seal what the hell are they gonna do!! Nothing all kinds of private PDs use the seal, I doubt anyone even notices. I worked for a few private colleges and we had the seal, and i'm quite sure many other colleges use the seal, oh well.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

Two interesting stories for everyone's reading pleasure:

http://www.pittsburghpostgazette.com/localnews/20031217badge1217p5.asp

http://www.s-t.com/daily/04-96/04-03-96/1morse.htm[/quote]

OKAY and the relevence of those stories means what?????? here, are you trying to make a point, because I dont see it. And I dont think you want me to venture as to what point your trying to make because that would be speculating. And as you and your cohort MT know all to well what the media does to a story.

Didnt one of your co-workers recently chase down an innocent photographer recently and scare the bejeezus out of him, ya thought SO.

So lets leave the media out of this one, becuase if you like I go dig up some interesting articles on some of your coworkers embarrasing moments and post them so others can refresh there memories.

Nice attempt at a diversion though, those articles have nothing to do with what where talking about here, but you get an A for effort










USMC:
I get the distinct impression you are portraying the MSP as some agency out to get the rest of the world on this technical offense.

HUNTER:
Your distinct impression is wrong

USMC:
you might as well be performing brain surgery.

HUNTER:
Will you please be my 1st patient? I'm having a discount on frontal labotomies this week, call me we'll set up an appointment for you.

USMC:
I further believe you are directing such inference at me.

HUNTER:
I wasnt, but I'am now, you need a tissue?

HUNTER:
Cmon seriously look at the ROTFLMAO smiley face next to what I said, get real.

Oh and by the way (I should probably say this before either you USMC or one of your defenders steps in here to defend your honor) I dont have any issues w/ MSP in general, I do happen to know a few great guys that are Troopers and they do great service to this state and my community.You on the other hand I'm begining to have my doubts.

USMC:
I get the distinct impression

HUNTER:
Distinct impression about what?????? that you dont read the whole posts or answer to it, but only part of it.Becuase thats all I have ever seen you do, even in the last debate we had (in case you dont remember go read the Constable forum) you dont answer anything, you select what you want to answer hence avoiding the true discussion, it classic USMC TROOPER all 40 something posts, so dont give me any shit until you step up to the plate, STICK TO THE QUESTIONS <-- can you read that!!!! or are your breeches to tight?

HUNTER:
:L: :L: :L: :L: <-------oh there he is. Is there something in the water out there in Eastern NY


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## masstoazcop (Dec 3, 2003)

*Oh boy*

I was not directing my reply to any officer or their agency, I was just trying to find out further information about the law and how officers are applying it.

I am a believer of citing someone for a less known law isn't a bad thing. We have to be creative during criminal investigations to help us solve a crime, because believe it or not people lie to the police.(pun intended)

Apprently TrooperMC felt he needed to cite this person because "he felt" he needed to do so and I am not questioning him on that one. As for TrooperMC case, we have no clue what the circumstances were 
nor would I speculate as to them. I would hope he would tell us when the case has been taken care of so we can better understand the who, what where and when of it all. We all have opinions about everything.


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

Let me tell you those two articles were intriguing! Hunter you don't see how they relate to this issue? Those articles had the word constable in it and so does this topic! Wow! it even includes periods and, so does this topic! 


> Again, how many criminal investigations into these type scenarios have you done? As a constable I would say none.


What type of scenario? State seal that led to..............what...? Even if he had more experience then anyone on this board he has nothing more to go on. Say what you really wanted to say
"As a constable how do you think your qualified to comment on anything in life period" :L: 
Have you ever done any constable work? Many here haven't but really seem to have intense feelings and views about their place in society and in "law enforcement".

Ok improper use of the state seal. I can see how defective equipment can get you into a car, how mail fraud is a daily crime committed by a variety of different people but I can not see how the state seal could open the door to major criminal activity so I too would like to see how this case unfolds. Hey, if your sharp police work and knowledge of the law led you to a major arrest through a "technicality" as you call it then I salute you.

I can not see your average criminal committing this violation in the course of more serious crimes. I CAN see them having numerous ch.90 violations, participating in mail fraud etc.

My issue with this topic: Is this a way to break balls since most of the violators are police officers, pt, seasonal etc. If someone who isn't an officer is using the state seal wouldn't they be charged with some form of impersonating a public official?

Is this something I will read on the front page? I mean 6 agencies and weeks of police work? I can only imagine what type of story I will read. 8)


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## Guest (Dec 31, 2003)

Seagull said:


> Is this something I will read on the front page? I mean 6 agencies and weeks of police work? I can only imagine what type of story I will read. 8)


I agree with you there, after this debate this better be good and or news worthy.

USMC:

I double checked my posts and unless I missed something I never made reference to you per se'. I was speaking in general your the one whos making this about YOU and the MSP, I was joking I thought the rotflmao smiley face gave that away (obviously not :shock: )But if you are offended I will remove it.

I hate to disillusion you but this topic is not about you or directed at you, YOU are making this about you and more than it needs to be I might add.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

I can't believe that this topic has actually gone on for this long....... :roll:


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Some of you guys have way too much free time on your hands. Think of all the things you can accomplish if you diverted this energy you use on this nonsense towards something constructive. P:


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Moved the badge discussion to the constable forum.....


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2004)

My ASP baton that I got from Galls has the "Comm. of Mass" seal on the endcap. Since I am considered a "part time affiliate of a law enforcement agency" (AKA a wannabe), can someone please give me the address for the State Police so I can send it out ASAP to be destroyed? 

Thank You :wink: 


PS: Hunter, thats a sharp looking badge!


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks Heavy.


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## Guest (Jan 2, 2004)

I'm still waiting to hear from USMC on his last comments here in this post, what does he have to say for him self.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

> Chapter 268: Section 35 Unauthorized use of town seal; making or possessing badge of town officer
> 
> Section 35. Whoever, without being duly authorized thereto, prints, stamps, engraves or affixes, or causes to be printed, stamped, engraved or affixed to any paper or other article a representation of the seal of a town in the commonwealth, with intent to give to such paper or article an official character which it does not possess, or, without being duly authorized thereto, and with intent to assume an official character which he does not possess, casts, stamps, engraves, makes or has in his possession a badge or thing in the likeness of an official badge of a police officer, member of a fire department, or other officer appointed by a town in the commonwealth, or by any department of such town, shall be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars.


I think some people do not comprehend this law. This law was made, as a tool for enforcing the law against people that use the seal of the COmmonwealth and try to use it while not in an official capacity. For example, I send out a letter to my town people with state seal on it and say I am raising money for a charity. This law does mean at all what is implied in this post. Frankly i don't understand how this was misinterpreted as it was. Remember the first line



> Whoever, without being duly authorized thereto


Are you duly authorized to carry a badge as campus police officer if you are sworn. YES. And if you actually read the law it states TOWN SEALS not Commonwealth Seal. Yes this is a great law, like USMC Trooper said to use as a tool. I get someone with a badge and he is not what he claims to be, you charge him with it. Although it's only a $50 fine, that on your BOP ,you can kiss Law Enforcement Career Bye Bye.


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## Nick (May 2, 2002)

H50 actually posted this link in another section: http://www.madrunkdrivingdefense.com/ but if you open it up, you'll see that the private defense attorney is using the state seal as part of his website. I don't know if it's a violation of the state seal law, but it definitely looks like he snagged his image from the ma.gov website!

NICK


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