# Discretion



## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

Well, I figured it may happen someday. I was stopped for a red light violation yesterday morning at 6:20 a.m., in the light snow, and wet road conditions. Now even though I've been "out of the loop" for the past year, I'd still like to think that officers are using discretion. This was NOT the case here. I don't think I complain about much, but I figured some of you may enjoy this one. I was exactly 1/5 of a mile from my home when this happened. As I came upon an intersection, the light turned YELLOW. Now I know most of you are aware of 89-9, and the "stop, if safe to do so" rule. Add to the fact that to my left, there was already a crusier clearly visible at the light facing west making a right turn to go north. The cruiser that stopped me was coming from the east direction of the intersection. At this point, there was no way to stop safely with the current conditions. So, I was pulled over. "She" asked me, "Did you see the red light?" I replied, "I saw it change to yellow." She comes back, hands me my $50.00 citation and says "You need to slow down at those YELLOW lights." and walked away. That was verbatim to the extent of conversation. Thoughts and comments are welcome...I'm going to love this one! And yes, I will be appealing(automatic "four" for her).


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

You would have got off cheaper in Attleboro, they want us to write red light violations under 720 CMR 9.06 because 89-9 says nothing about a solid red light.

Hmmm... might be a reason to fight it


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## Joe B (Aug 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by Burner1:
> * And yes, I will be appealing(automatic "four" for her). *


Best of luck to you, Burner. Just illustrate the scenario in court like you did here, hopefully the judge/magistrate will see things your way. By the way, she'll only get the o/t if you go for second hearing.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

I hate to say it but you sound like the rest of the whiners in court when I hear the traffic appeals. Change your story ,because the clerk-magistrate hear the same old sob story every time, Why me, Oh me?


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

Well, well, well..JB1971. How many of those "whiners" are 5 year veterans of a local P.D. Of which, used in my humble opinion, used very good discretion during those years. Are you the type of officer that gives money citations for minor traffic offenses at the crack of dawn with no other traffic present? Not to mention the overall circumstances. If you are, I'm sure your department if benfiting greatly from your great attitude and wisdom towards the public. In my experience, Judges see this and even if I thought I was right, gave the benefit of the doubt to the violator. As an added note, after being in a combat zone and watching tracer fire whiz by my head, I have very little to "whine" about. I'll excuse the ignorance. Maybe, after I ace the April exam, get my "vet" preference, and experience points (possibly), get re-hired in my new city, I'll take your attitude and screw the public. I do not think so.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

> Are you the type of officer that gives money citations for minor traffic offenses at the crack of dawn with no other traffic present?


I stop everyone and cite the ones that earned the citation. Good pretextual stops lead to great arrests.



> I'm sure your department if benfiting greatly from your great attitude and wisdom towards the public.


Yes they are, that is why I am assigned as traffic enforcement officer.



> In my experience, Judges see this and even if I thought I was right, gave the benefit of the doubt to the violator.


Wrong, judges hear your same old sob story and then they say "I'll take it under advisement", just no to break your heart because he finds the violator responsible.



> As an added note, after being in a combat zone and watching tracer fire whiz by my head, I have very little to "whine" about. I'll excuse the ignorance.


I am not going to share my war stories of but I still obey the law as a police officer and regardless of my brushes with death experiences and other commando stories.



> Maybe, after I ace the April exam, get my "vet" preference, and experience points (possibly), get re-hired in my new city, I'll take your attitude and screw the public. I do not think so.


Good luck on the test and I hope you will be a good police officer and hope you don't become another minimalist and whiner. We have enough of them on the job already. Traffic Enforcement is an important part of community policing, because you are improving the quality of life to everyone in your community. Education through enforcement.

Well, there you go again, trying to justify your mistake by rationalizing. The law does not change between 12AM-6AM. Anyway, i still think you are "whinning".


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

Oh please...


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## Foxracingmtnridr (Feb 23, 2003)

That was a whole boatload of JB1971 sayin "Yo Momma"
















Scott


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## Macop (May 2, 2002)

Sorry to get of topic but....Actually Joe B, Most depts you get 4 hrs miniumun for court, I never head of only getting it if there is a second hearing. If its over 40 then its OT no matter how u cut it. My dpet gives us 4 Hrs OT off the top if we even step foot in the court house. I imagine most depts r like that. Didn't mean to get off topic it just didnt make sence what u said. Not to offend you.


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## 1zero7 (Aug 11, 2002)

macop,
I think what he was referring to was this; the first hearing goes to the court officer and then if it gets appealed after that the actual officer gets called in. Thus, we have OT. Don't you know this? Or does the Bernardston Highway Patrol lack a court officer?


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## Joe B (Aug 21, 2002)

Thank you *1zero7*, that was exactly what I meant. Most departments have a prosecutor that handles initial hearings.


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## Macop (May 2, 2002)

I dont read hidden meanings wise asses. And yea we have a court officer. Anyway Punk zero, hahaha when you working up this way again? Friday, If so gimme a ring. Im back to my regular days off sun mon and tues


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## rpdmounted (Jan 3, 2003)

Hey Burner, what are you complaining about? You ARE whining about a silly little traffic citation! I would think that a "combat zone" veteran would have a little more honor than you display in your rant about being stopped. So what if she gets four hours of OT, she probably deserves it. What do you care?

Your post has all the tell-tale signs of a wanna be. Real officers don't moan about such things. Did you tell her you were a former police officer? If I stop an officer (either retired or active), I always cut them a break, unless they are doing something REALLY stupid. Also, people's attitudes are what sometimes earn them a citation. If I get attitude from a citizen, they get a citation from me. If they pay me a little respect, then that factors into my consideration of giving them a warning or a money citation. I get the feeling your mouth got the better of you (as it seems in your posts too), and you probably earned yourself that ticket.

Lastly, why are you putting "she" in quotes? Are you offended that a female police officer pulled you over? For someone who claims to be a 5 year police officer, you don't show many signs of being professional. I have a female Sgt, and she is an outstanding police officer, and a good friend.

If you make it to a department, I wish you luck. But lose the attitude first. We deal with enough nitwits on the road, we don't need them on the inside.


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## rpdmounted (Jan 3, 2003)

Between the attitude and the spelling, maybe it should be Burntout1......


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## rmauro95 (Nov 22, 2002)

You know what, if you are a former cop then you must know people. Just take the ticket and call someone and maybe they might know the officer and ask for consideration, If you had been an OUI would you have wanted her to let you off or give you a ride home.


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## q5_po (Aug 23, 2002)

Just curious, why aren't you a cop anymore???


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## Irishpride (May 5, 2002)

Why Burner1 is no longer a Police Officer


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

I knew this post would get it going. 

As for rpdmounted, have you seen some of the spelling, grammar and sentence structure used on this board? Respect? Since when is it given and not earned? As far as the "she" comment, if you have read my previous posts on female police officers, you would understand. In this case, not only was "she" approximately 45-50 pounds overweight, her uniform looked like crap (did not dry clean, dryer fuzz ball covered), and a tactically unsound approach/retreat of stop. As for 4 hours of O.T., I do not need to remind people of the current economic crisis. In Woburn District Court, the appeals are called first. So, your in there tops, 1/2 hour, with an automatic "4" at appx. $20/hr(conservative for patrolman)= $80. If I'm a tax payer of that community, I would care. If it's the difference between the homeowners taxes being raised or laying off police and fire, what way do you think the taxpayer is going to vote? Even when I was full-time, I still voted "no" on the 2 1/2 overide. Finally, "wanna be", please explain to the audience what that is. I know there are people on this board who "want to be" hired, or hired to full-time status. 

rmauro95, the call has already been made. "She" did not give me time for any conversation. I don't think she even noticed the MPA sticker on the front windshield. If I read your profile correctly, your in Waltham? How's Florio and Dave doing?

Irishpride, thanks for keeping the archives!

q5_po, "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!" Spend anytime with the 3707th?

To conclude, the original post was meant to be humorous. Obviously, I struck a nerve with some. As with most of my posts, I try not to degrade anyone. What I try to do is encourage independent thought. Trying to help make a better police officer. The old school days are over...


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## q5_po (Aug 23, 2002)

No I did not spend any time with that unit. 

Second, why do you have an MPA sticker on your windshield if you are not a Police Officer?

Ch 266 s 69: "The sticker is the official insignia of the Ma Police Assn as registered in the Office of the Secretary of State. In this form the insignias will be known only to police officers, and are for use on the rear window of automobiles registered to members of the Massachusetts Police Association only."


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

It is a 2002 sticker, which at the time I was registered and an active member.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

Why didn't you something right there u know better..

If you have been a PO for 5 years you have seen Massholes in their SUV always going through the Yellow light... Well that yellow light doesn't care about my kids with my wife going through the Green light..

Nothing worse than slowing down to the actual "speed limit" and when weather affects the roadway you are supposed to have enough control of your vehicle to stop for lights in any weather even if you have to drive 10 mph

Unfortunately MPA stickers are almost worthless now they have given so many out. I make em scrap them off alll the time and yes it's all about the attitude

u r a wierd dude either way after reading your posts...


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

The above post is exactly what I have been stating for a long time..."res ipsa loquitur"


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Hey Burner,

Like you said at the beginning; you welcome all comments. Too bad some like to jump all over you about a CMVI and then start "pissing and moaning" about your "whining"

Like I always say "You can't make everybody happy"


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## female p.o. (Sep 29, 2002)

BUT YOU SHOULD LEARN TO SPELL....


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by female p.o.:
> * BUT YOU SHOULD LEARN TO SPELL....
> 
> 
> ...


Ahhhhhhhhh.........
who was that snippet directed at?


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## female p.o. (Sep 29, 2002)

IT WAS DIRECTED TO THE "COPS" OUT HERE WHO CAN'T SPELL. I SHUDDER TO THINK OF WHAT THE REPORTS LOOK LIKE...


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

Burner my dear Brother, you've been hosed by the dreaded "Female Cop in a bad uniform". You're very lucky to have spotted such a rare & beautiful creature at such an early morning hour. Mostly they don't show up until the 8AM roll call and even then, they are usually late & disheveled in appearance. 
Finding one on the 12-8 shift is a rare thing indeed. Most aren't even seen in vehicles and or around the macadam (Street). Most are "Formica Warriors" who's best talents are typing or imputting some forms of Chief's memorandum. 
I feel bad that some clueless cop can't even see a 2002 MPA sticker on your windshield. I bet if Osama Bin Laden walked right past her with a bomb strapped to his waist, she'd say "good day sir"
I feel bad that the MSP academy didn't work out for you. I hope you left the S/P academy before the "Frontal Lobotomy Week". Maybe you can get back on the list of your former department. Hope that your child is doing better.
As for starting a light hearted thread in here, forget about it. Some people in here wait for the chance to throw daggers at people who happen to be in a bad position. Full contact in here. They play by Prison Rules if you ask me. 
As some people stated, "A C.90 crime is a crime no matter what time" or something foolish like that, just get a grip. A little leniency goes a long way in the public's eye. You're only making the town,state & insurance companies rich by wacking people with outrageous fines. You just happened to be in a bad spot at the wrong time in the early AM & didn't catch a break. 
Hey JB1971, as for C.90 being community policing, it couldn't be farther from the truth. C.90 is an enforcement tool, nothing more. You want to meet people, drop your radar gun / Town $$ maker and go downtown & shake a few hands instead of handing out tickets like a C. 90 meter maid.
That being said, Burner, good luck on the next Civil Circus test. Hope you score high and use those well earned experience points. Come on all you whiners, bash me now. Peace out


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

WOW! Your pretty daring Used2Be. I'm sure your response will tickle a few. At the very least, you arrived to the conclusion I hoped some would...the irony and humor of it all. As for the well wishing, thanks. He recently past his one year mark, a subtle reminder of my professional career going off track (but a happy one)! We'll see with the exam. Possibly a new thread, but I think it's in bad taste not to accomodate active duty military this year. Even though I will benefit, I still think it's wrong. July will be the determining factor for anyone looking to get on full-time. That is when towns will see the exact dollar amount of their budgets being cut. Hopefully, some are in a community that is financially secure; mine is $14 million in debt!


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Hey Used2BeaCop



> *Hey JB1971, as for C.90 being community policing, it couldn't be farther from the truth. C.90 is an enforcement tool, nothing more. You want to meet people, drop your radar gun / Town $$ maker and go downtown & shake a few hands instead of handing out tickets like a C. 90 meter maid.*


Sounds to me like you are a 14 percenter. Thank God you used to be a cop. Another whiner!


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

Hey JB, what's a 14 percenter? If you are refering to the amount I put into the City / State / County / Municipal Retirement system, it's 8%. Been around since 1987 and on the job since 1989. Can you say the same?
Still a cop but sick of all the B.S. Bad enough I have to listen to these young guys whine about different things that I have rehashed through the years. I tune into this and other posts on here and I find the same screaming idiots who don't show an ounce of sympathy to a fellow officer who get's stopped for one of your "Community Policing" C. 90 stops. Remember the hand you write a ticket to today may be attatched to the ring you have to kiss tomorrow. What goes around, comes around. I am a firm believer in that. 
No need to shit on Burner for his mistake so early in the morning. Maybe your motto is "On the job, you're a guest, off the job, you're a pest." Not mine. You wear blue and put your life on the line, you're my brother. Something you should think about during your C.90 downtime.


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## q5_po (Aug 23, 2002)

I believe to clarify something. Burner1 is not on the job.


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Well UsedtobeaCop, a 14 percenter is the percentage amount of officers that are dead weight in a police department. These are the minimalists. Has nothing to do with your retirement, but you would have learned this if you attended New England Institute of Law Enforcement Command School.



> Still a cop but sick of all the B.S. Bad enough I have to listen to these young guys whine about different things that I have rehashed through the years


You know, we deal with BS on the job everyday but I love my job and I love coming into work. Everyday I come in to work I know that I can do something better and better myself. It is this type of philosophy and mentality that US younger guys have. If you are sick of the BS and want to give up then good for you. We don't need anymore whiners, we need thinkers and strategists. We need officers that will make a difference and not whine every second. By the way, I never cited a PO, but your whining just irritated me.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

JB1971 writes ........"a 14 percenter is the percentage amount of officers that are dead weight in a police department. These are the minimalists. Has nothing to do with your retirement, but you would have learned this if you attended New England Institute of Law Enforcement Command School."
Attending "Command School" at the NEILE is like being named the "Marshal" of Buzzy's Roast Beef. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me or the other 14% of us so called dead weight. 
I might be dead weight now but back in the day, I used to count myself among the 86 percenters you choose to lump yourself in with. Try walking a mile in my mocassins before you go shooting your mouth off.
Anyone on my job who goes to command school or any type of extra training must first pass below the chief's desk. Maybe if you moved over, some of us 14% ers might be able to fit under there as well. 
As for burner being a former LEO, I extend courtesies to all active and retired LEO's out there. Remember, these are the guys you used to work with. Just because you move out of your parents house doesn't mean you shouldn't show them the same respect you had when you lived there, now does it? Smarten up people.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by Used2BeCop:
> *
> Attending "Command School" at the NEILE is like being named the "Marshal" of Buzzy's Roast Beef. Doesn't mean a damn thing to me or the other 14% of us so called dead weight.
> Anyone on my job who goes to command school or any type of extra training must first pass below the chief's desk. Maybe if you moved over, some of us 14% ers might be able to fit under there as well.
> *


I think you "Used2BeunderDesk" yourself back in the day! I think you should change your name to BOFFAW (Burnt-out fart-faced ass-wiffer)

Maybe you didn't go to "any type of extra training" because you have always known it all anyway. You sound like a bitter old shit-bird with nothing but droppings to spread around.
Go slip and fall and make room for somebody else you flatulent fool!


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

MPD61,

Once again your big fingertips make you out to be such a fool. 
As I hear it "It's better to keep one's mouth shut and be thought the fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Well in my book, you've removed all doubt and dropped your pants and showed your true colors once again.
Any truth to the rumor that your family hails from Quebec by way of Lyon France?? Just wondering...............


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Used2BePig have a nice life. It's people like me that go to Command school and other specialized training to make sure that minimalists like yourself and other dead weight whiners never make it back on the NEW AGE police departments. I think PINKERTON SECURITY is hiring. And MPD61 has more police in his fingernail than you'll ever have. Ooh by the way, he will be attending the Command School this year as well. This arguement is getting old and your stupid comments are boring me. Good luck in your life and please do us all a favor and stay out of law enforcement. Weren't you going to law school or something?

Take care.


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## Gil (Jun 15, 1998)

Come on guys, 

I work with a few "Used2BeCop" type officers. They are a great bunch of guys who like Used2BeCop has said, "been there done that" and now they are a little more level headed and yes a lot more lax. Maybe from being burned too many times by there own department, who knows but I am sure there are many reasons why one just steps aside and blends in with the woodwork. But it is like this on all departments. We all need to realize that the go-getters attending command schools etc... are not going to change the attitudes of the so called "14%'s" Name calling is definitely not the solution and will just lead into the infamous pissing match.

Some say "lead, follow or get out of the way" well Used2BeCop has gotten out of the way so lets just move on and have a little respect for out elders.


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## Burner1 (Jul 30, 2002)

Certainly not the direction I wanted this thread to go. It was originally posted to get a chuckle out of some, which unfortunately only a few understood. Hopefully this is the end of this thread, it's old now. 

As for UsedToBe, I'm sure you will be the one laughing last; when a lot of the young, superior intellects on the board are out of jobs this summer. Which I do not wish on anyone. If I were still on my department, I would be out! My "partner" just called and said six(6) are out in July, including him! It is clearly tough times ahead...


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

Burner,

Some people see the world for what it is, others don't. BJ 1971 and MPD61 Command School Graduates / GED program earners make me sick. All they do there is teach you how to screw with the Patromen on the job. We have a pair like them on my job, we call them "Putz & Shmuck". They are like lapdogs at the Chiefs feet, begging for scraps to be thrown to them like specialized training and command school. Pavlovs dogs make these two look good. Hoping against all hope to become Sergeants. 
I know Burner that this isn't where you thought the thread would lead but Supercop and Boy Wonder brought it to this level. They obviously have a dry sense of humor but they can buy one at Best Buy for $19.99 Blue Light Special. These wackers probably never had a real job in the real world before they became cops. Burner, you are an alright dude on and off the job & I like your sense of humor. These jackoff's only have cop friends I bet. Hanging down JJ Foleys telling their war stories....


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## Foxracingmtnridr (Feb 23, 2003)

> Originally posted by Used2BeCop:
> * They obviously have a dry sense of humor but they can buy one at Best Buy for $19.99 Blue Light Special. *


Actually Best Buy unfortunately doesn't sell sense of humor although they do have Comedy videos and cd's, and the Blue Light Special is at K-Mart and they might possibly have senses of humor there.







You should pick one up.

Scott


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## j809 (Jul 5, 2002)

Used2BeaCop you are a bigger loser very time you respond. Actually I have a Master's Degree and worked for four departments, from auxiliary to special, reserve and full time. I was blessed enough to work for four different departments and see numerous losers like yourself. The funny thing is that all "14 percenters are the same". My goal is to become a better police officer and a better person as each day passes. I learn new things and implement them. I absorb the good things and ignore the bad things such as your attitude. I really don't think you are on the job, I just think you hang out with a lot of losers that are on the job and drink their life away at your local pub and you just hang with them and absord their attitudes. You probably work for the Highway department or School Department Janitor. And yes, Command School does teach us how to eliminate waste such as yourself from departments. People like you area diservice to the hard working officers on the job, yes the 86 percenters and you are a waste to the communities they are supposed to serve. Good thing is they taught us allot, such as dealing with civil service and reprimanding wastes such as yourself through proper documentation and early paper trails.


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## Anonymous (Jan 1, 1970)

What you just wrote proves what you are........a company man. I bet you are made out of the same mold as most Chief's are. Stepping on everyones heads to get above them on the career ladder. Every head you step on may be attached to the ass you have to kiss later on in your career. Bum smoochers like you are unfortunately in every segment of society. Blanket parties were invented for people JUST LIKE YOU. I bet the first guy you arrested was the kid who kicked your ass on the way to high school every morning. 
Your attitude is what drives people away from policing and makes them 14%ers. Try Internal Affairs, it might suit your style a bit better. Care for some Swiss cheese??


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

And what you just wrote proves you're a "last-word, i'm right-you're-wrong" Joker.

Have a nice "nyah-nyah" with your next post you insecure freak!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Joe B (Aug 21, 2002)

> Originally posted by JB1971:
> You probably work for the Highway department or *School Department Janitor.*


First off, let me just say I'm not getting involved in this pissing contest, but...Jimbo, I know *exactly* who you're refering to, one of our old Sergeants, right?


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## 40th MPOC#309 (Aug 7, 2002)

What effective Chiefs/Brass need to do is analyze their respective Officers strengths, weaknesses, and interests, and blend them into a efficient force. Not everyone wants to be in management just like not everyone wants to hide in the shadows for 8+ hours. The key is to communicate your Depts. goals and direction-seek input all the way down to the bottom levels and empower your people to put their strengths to work....Some people won't cooperate though, just like in any group......


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

> Originally posted by 40th MPOC#309:
> * What effective Chiefs/Brass need to do is analyze their respective Officers strengths, weaknesses, and interests, and blend them into a efficient force. Not everyone wants to be in management just like not everyone wants to hide in the shadows for 8+ hours. The key is to communicate your Depts. goals and direction-seek input all the way down to the bottom levels and empower your people to put their strengths to work....Some people won't cooperate though, just like in any group......
> 
> 
> ...


OH MY GOD!!!!!


What a breath of fresh air! A voice of reason! Did I ever tell all you Mass-netters how absolutely fan-freakin-tastic this particular town cop is? Well, he's the seeds man! Volunteers for Northern Watch, puts his own mug through the MPOC, raising three(3)kids, keeps F-15's flying over our heads. and still manages to be positive and upbeat. You should see his haircut!









How many of you people out there can claim to be half the person that 40thMPOC#309 is? huh?


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## PearlOnyx (Jun 28, 2002)

Well guys, I hate to be the heavy, but I think this topic has served it's purpose. We now have that happy flame fest forum. If anyone wants to carry on this topic there, feel free. Carry on


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