# 4th Amendment (Illegal Search) Question



## NuLook (Dec 12, 2010)

Is there any government agency exempt from this rule for example; DMH, DMR, DCF, what I mean is do they have the right to enter your home and ask to search your personal belongings, closets, drawers without probable cause or a warrant? I'm thinking if we as officers have to abide by this law then shouldn't everyone else. This question was posed to me by someone who works for one of these agencies and are getting annoyed by their agencies requests to check their home.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

Did they give up their rights as part of a condition of employment?

Otherwise, no go.


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## trueblue (Jan 21, 2008)

Sure, they can ask but my answer would be NFW


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

WTF? *clarify please*...Are DMH/DMR officers being asked to search OTHER persons homes, or are they themselves being subjected to having their own residences searched? And if so by whom? This sounds like BS rumor to me...


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Only govt agencys that I know of that can be searched at will are the military on post....unless something has changed since I got out.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

mpd61 said:


> WTF? *clarify please*...Are DMH/DMR officers being asked to search OTHER persons homes, or are they themselves being subjected to having their own residences searched? And if so by whom? This sounds like BS rumor to me...


+1

Show an example of a DMH officer searching peoples homes. Im calling BS.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

DMH and DMR?

Are yo sure it's not the patients that keep requesting to search your friend's home?


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## USM C-2 (Oct 27, 2010)

The general rule is that in order to search an area where one has an expectation of privacy the police need one of three things: Warrant, Consent or Exigent Circumstances. Every search can be placed into one of these three categories, though sometimes the USSC has had to sorta squeeze them in to make them fit.

The only thing I know that falls outside of this category are border (or functional equivalent) searches... those are based upon the sovereign authority of a nation to control its borders.

From the original post, the word 'ask' was used. Can you say 'no?'


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## MetrowestPD (Oct 21, 2008)

263FPD said:


> Did they give up their rights as part of a condition of employment?
> 
> Otherwise, no go.


I can't see any reason or government interest where a governemnt/state agency could require an employee to give up this right. A blanket requirement that they can search your personal home without any reason at any time would be found to be an unconstitutional search. IMO


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## NuLook (Dec 12, 2010)

mpd61 said:


> WTF? *clarify please*...Are DMH/DMR officers being asked to search OTHER persons homes, or are they themselves being subjected to having their own residences searched? And if so by whom? This sounds like BS rumor to me...


This family has a DCF worker coming out to there home and from what they told me, they said that the worker told them he has to look in their closets and dresser drawers , I am aware of the elements to satisfy a search, I just wasn't sure if they had some type of rule, regulation, policy or procedure that allowed them to look. I think that DCF take liberties that are not exactly constitutional and take advantage of people that don't know any better, and we as officers have to work with some of these workers. I think social workers should be required to take constitutional law.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

MetrowestPD said:


> I can't see any reason or government interest where a governemnt/state agency could require an employee to give up this right. A blanket requirement that they can search your personal home without any reason at any time would be found to be an unconstitutional search. IMO


When I was working on a TF, I had to sign a Memorandum Of Understanding that I, my desk, and my vehicle were subject to search at any time. It did not extend to my home. It is a price you pay when you have a security clearance and have access to sensitive information.


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## HousingCop (May 14, 2004)

263FPD said:


> When I was working on a TF, I had to sign a Memorandum Of Understanding that I, my desk, and my vehicle were subject to search at any time. It did not extend to my home. It is a price you pay when you have a security clearance and have access to sensitive information.


*Good thing it didn't extend to under your mattress V, cause of all the spank material you've hoarded over the years must make your mattress very uncomfortable. *


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## MetrowestPD (Oct 21, 2008)

NuLook said:


> This family has a DCF worker coming out to there home and from what they told me, they said that the worker told them he has to look in their closets and dresser drawers , I am aware of the elements to satisfy a search, I just wasn't sure if they had some type of rule, regulation, policy or procedure that allowed them to look. I think that DCF take liberties that are not exactly constitutional and take advantage of people that don't know any better, and we as officers have to work with some of these workers. I think social workers should be required to take constitutional law.


If DCF is at a person's home their is a reason for it, i.e. someone reported abuse and/or neglect. People can refuse to open closets and drawers for them, but they can have their kids taken if they do not cooperate. As MTC said they are checking to make sure the children have adequate clothes and things. I have had many people refuse to let the DCF worker into their house, then they call us and they refuse to let us in. Nothing else you can do unless a child is in immediate danger.



263FPD said:


> When I was working on a TF, I had to sign a Memorandum Of Understanding that I, my desk, and my vehicle were subject to search at any time. It did not extend to my home. It is a price you pay when you have a security clearance and have access to sensitive information.


Cars, desks, and anything else that goes to work can be searched without it being an issue, I am specifically saying a person's home. Especially if you live with someone, because you can't sign away their rights.


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## csauce777 (Jan 10, 2005)

mtc said:


> *THEY LIE !!*
> 
> And they do it with regularity and they do it to bolster their caseload.


I'm not disagreeing with the fact that they may lie, and I'm not saying I have ANY sort of confidence in DCF, but...There is no shortage of DCF cases. I dont think they really need to bolster anything. The number of DCF involved families and ongoing cases are astronomical. They may lie, but I dont know if the motivation is to ADD work.


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## Sam1974 (Apr 8, 2009)

Go ahead and search my house, car, person. Just DON'T touch my "collection" or I'll kill you!


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

HousingCop said:


> *Good thing it didn't extend to under your mattress V, cause of all the spank material you've hoarded over the years must make your mattress very uncomfortable. *


Ain't nothing compared to the collection that belongs to our mutual friend, B.P.

You know that I am right, bro.


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## NuLook (Dec 12, 2010)

Thank you everyone for your help:teeth_smile:.


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