# Butterfly Knives and Switchblades.



## Guest

*Butterfly Knives*

Are Butterfly knives illegal in Massachusetts?If they are, we can I find the law that states it? Are they considered gravity knives?
Thanks


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## stm4710

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

They are dangerous weapons per se.

*M.G.L. Chapter 269 Section 10 (b)*

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle, having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Please explain professor how butterfly knives are illegal.


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## stm4710

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Umm, look at the picture......then look at the law. Im sure with all your SJC experience you wouldn't need a lowly rookie like me to show you.


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## Guest

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> or chop up marijuana..


And after chopping, the blade will have the odor.


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## Clouseau

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Unregistered said:


> And after chopping, the blade will have the odor.


Oops, sorry. Forgot to log in.


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## Bob_A_Fett

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



stm4710 said:


> Umm, look at the picture......then look at the law. Im sure with all your SJC experience you wouldn't need a lowly rookie like me to show you.


Yes, the one pictured is double-edged so it is illegal. However, not all butterfly knives have double edges like the one pictured. Butterfly knives are not "per se" dangerous weapons, but "as used".


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> They can be used to cut open bags of cocaine or chop up marijuana. It's a fruit! An Instrumentality! Call the SWAT Team!!! Arrest that rotten SOB!!!
> 
> Oh, yeah, if they're double-edged...they're illegal.* If they are single edged but possessed during a breach of peace, they are illegal.* That's what my Trinitron service manual says, you old coot.


once again a wrong statement by a google whacker.

"Google Whacker"- a wannabe who uses search engines to pretend he knows what he is talking about. Double edged knives are illegal. 
Butterfly's are not if not double edged.

Single edged are not illegal if possessed during a breach of the peace MORON. GO FIX A TOASTER.


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



stm4710 said:


> Umm, look at the picture......then look at the law. Im sure with all your SJC experience you wouldn't need a lowly rookie like me to show you.


your picture doesn't show that it's double-edged Einstein. One side is definitely longer than the other. most double-edged knives are uniform. And the question was "butterfly knives" not double-edged ones. And how the hell can you tell if both sides are sharpened by a picture. Almost as bad as my marijuana smell. Wannabe.


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## CBayer222

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



94c said:


> once again a wrong statement by a google whacker.
> 
> "Google Whacker"- a wannabe who uses search engines to pretend he knows what he is talking about. Double edged knives are illegal.
> Butterfly's are not if not double edged.
> 
> Single edged are not illegal if possessed during a breach of the peace MORON. GO FIX A TOASTER.


We had this Monday at the academy, and the instructor specificly said this is exact same thing. Single edged butterflys are not illegal.


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## Guest

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Thank you for explaining this to me....

Butterfly knives are not illigal.

Any knife with a double edged blade is illigal.


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



stm4710 said:


> Umm, look at the picture......then look at the law. Im sure with all your SJC experience you wouldn't need a lowly rookie like me to show you.


cut and paste......cut and paste.....cut and paste.......gee I'm a COP.


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## Curious EMT

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



CBayer222 said:


> We had this Monday at the academy, and the instructor specificly said this is exact same thing. Single edged butterflys are not illegal.


 Not until it is USED as a dangerous weapon, correct? Then all betts are off....
From what I understood of the caselaw, nearly anything can fall under 269/10b if it is used or threatened to be used as a weapon, not limited to body parts (i.e. shod foot) or objects which can not be put in motion (i.e. curb, wall).
Objects specifically listed are illegal to possess, not listed requires it to be used or threatened to be used for the crime..... correct?

Here's another one. The law states "Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle". So, if I have a dagger in my trunk. That isnt "under his control in a vehicle"... Legal? Not?


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## CJIS

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Don't forget that the length of the blade also plays a roll in all of this.


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## policelaborlaw.com

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> Oh, yeah, if they're double-edged...they're illegal. If they are single edged but possessed during a breach of peace, they are illegal. That's what my Trinitron service manual says, you old coot.


This is not true - they must be used in a dangerous manner.

*Comm. v. Turner* 
Where a defendant found with a knife was charged with violating G.L. c. 269, Sect. 10(b), that conviction must be reversed on the ground that the knife could not qualify as a "dangerous weapon" under the statute. 
"After stopping the defendant in Boston's 'Combat Zone' in the early morning hours, police removed from his back pocket a folded knife with a 3 ¼ "serrated blade. When police learned that there were outstanding warrants for the defendant's arrest, they arrested him on those warrants and charged him with violating *G.L.c. 269, Sect. 10(b)*, -* possession of a dangerous weapon when arrested on a warrant. He claims that he did not possess a 'dangerous weapon' within the meaning of the statute*, and that, under the circumstances of this case, conviction for violating the statute would violate his right to due process of law. We conclude that the *evidence at trial was insufficient to prove a violation of the statute* and, therefore, vacate the defendant's conviction. ... 

"The question ... is whether the evidence permitted the fact finder to conclude that the defendant *used or handled the knife in a manner that made it a dangerous weapon*. ... It did not. *At all material times, the defendant's knife was out of sight, folded in his back pocket. It was folded in his back pocket as he distanced himself from Officer Young.* It was folded in his back pocket when he told the officers, after he was stopped, that they could search him because he had nothing 'on him.' The officers were not even aware of its existence until they encountered it during the frisking process. Whatever the knife's potential for harm at other times and in other circumstances, the *defendant did not use it in a manner that was capable of causing serious harm or even the apprehension of serious harm on the morning of his arrest.* ..." 

 Click Here for the Full Text of the Case


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> Dumbass. A single edged knife is considered a dangerous weapon and hence illegal if possessed while the subject is committing a breach of peace. Maybe it's time to get your eyeglass prescription updated, the years are getting at you. I'll put this in nice big letters to help you read it:
> 
> Violation of MGL Chapter 269: Section 10. Carrying dangerous weapons; possession of machine gun or sawed-off shotguns; possession of large capacity weapon or large capacity feeding device; punishment.


GOOGLE WHACKER!!!

go ahead DUMBASS, ARGUE WITH A LAWYER NOW!!!!!!!


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> Oh, yeah, if they're double-edged...they're illegal. If they are single edged but *possessed *during a breach of peace, they are illegal. That's what my Trinitron service manual says, you old coot.


GOOGLE WHACKER-BACK TRACKER


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> Google-whack Back-track Give a dog a bone, 94C got lost going home...
> 
> Get the Dentu-grip out of your eyes, you geriatric has-been. Read every post I have made on this thread, and you will see that in every one I have been specific about the "breach of peace" qualification.
> 
> Isn't there a Bea Arthur marathon you could be watching on the AARP channel instead of wasting precious bandwith on your dementia-induced ramblings?


 Commonwealth v. Miller, 22 Mass. App. Ct. at 696-697 (defendant's knife, which was a "heavy, oversized version of a folding pocket knife or jack-knife" that did not open easily or quickly and was found closed in the defendant's pocket, "could have been deemed to be a dangerous weapon" under G. L. c. 269, § 10(b), if it had been found open in his hand or pocket);

IF IT HAD BEEN FOUND OPEN IN HIS HAND OR POCKET. 
NOT JUST CARRYING IT, MORON


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> DId I EVER say "just carrying", dipwad? NO. Carrying in and of itself does not amount to a breach of peace. Add a risk of harm to the public and now you have a dangerous weapon, where before you had none. Carrying )possessing) + breach of peace = 269/10/B
> 
> But anyhow it's good to see you agreeing with me that a plain old folding knife could be deemed a dangerous weapon under 269/10/B, which is what I have been saying all along and you have been imbecilicly denying since day 1. "Unregistered"s butterfly knife fits the definition exactly. If he's involved in an altercation and the knife is open in his hand or pocket, regardless of whether he actually threatens or uses it as a weapon, he can be found guilty of 269/10/B. Just having it folded up in his pocket is not unlawful, provided it is not double edged.
> 
> NOW who's the moron???


This what you originally said. But once proven wrong you changed your tune:

" If they are single edged but *possessed* during a breach of peace, they are illegal. That's what my Trinitron service manual says, you old coot."

you had no concept of "per se" vs. "use" until you started google-whacking. you are the ultimate monday morning quarterback.


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## CJIS

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Wow... How long are you guys going to argue over this? I belive the question asked by the unregistered person has been answered, as they have not posted since. Don't get me wrong this little battle is amusing, but I think it's time to give it a rest.


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## screamineagle

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

I can't stop laughing my ass off.:thumbup:


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## copcop

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

94c and Wolfman....can you two just fuck each other and get it over with.....it's quite obvious you love each other.....


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



copcop said:


> 94c and Wolfman....can you two just fuck each other and get it over with.....it's quite obvious you love each other.....


I would fuck him the first chance I got.


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## CJIS

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Wow such harsh langauge...


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## 94c

*Re: Butterfly Knives*



Wolfman said:


> Don't ask, don't tell...
> 
> Maybe my "Bea Arthur" comment should be replaced with a "Rock Hudson" comment...
> 
> Apparently the concept of witty banter is beyond c's scope of comprehension. Now he's getting upset. Don't have a stroke there, Gramps. It's only the internet, after all.


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## CJIS

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

OO I can think of a bunch of people I could award that too.


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## copcreamer

*Re: Butterfly Knives*

Can you arrest the knife if it smells like marijiana?


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## Guest

*Switchblades*

The discussing came up at work the other day about switchblades. Now as far as I have been told Police/Fire can have them in the state. I know galls will ship them to you if you have a dept ID and letter head. Is there and exception for police/fire written into the MGL's? Someone was saying that police and fire are not exempt from the law, so I'm just looking for some info online about this. Thanks for any info.


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## stm4710

*Re: Switchblades*

Again look at C 269 S 10 b. :!: It makes NO exemptions for police and fire. [-X
*M.G.L. Chapter 269 Section 10 (b)*

(b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, *any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle,* having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.


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## dcs2244

*Re: Switchblades*

And switchblade butterfly knives are strictly forbidden...


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## kwflatbed

*Re: Switchblades*

Didn't we just go through this ?????????

http://www.masscops.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13047


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## copcar65

*Re: Switchblades*

I believe MGL Ch 41 s 98 which authorizes police officers to carry any weapons designated by the Chief would allow them to carry switchblades if the Chief approves it. It is much the same as carrying a fully auto weapon on duty if the Chief approves it.

I'm not saying any Chief would approve but who knows.



stm4710 said:


> Again look at C 269 S 10 b. :!: It makes NO exemptions for police and fire. [-X
> *M.G.L. Chapter 269 Section 10 (b)*
> 
> (b) Whoever, except as provided by law, carries on his person, or carries on his person or under his control in a vehicle, any stiletto, dagger or a device or case which enables a knife with a locking blade to be drawn at a locked position, any ballistic knife, or any knife with a detachable blade capable of being propelled by any mechanism, dirk knife, *any knife having a double-edged blade, or a switch knife, or any knife having an automatic spring release device by which the blade is released from the handle,* having a blade of over one and one-half inches, or a slung shot, blowgun, blackjack, metallic knuckles or knuckles of any substance which could be put to the same use with the same or similar effect as metallic knuckles, nunchaku, zoobow, also known as klackers or kung fu sticks, or any similar weapon consisting of two sticks of wood, plastic or metal connected at one end by a length of rope, chain, wire or leather, a shuriken or any similar pointed starlike object intended to injure a person when thrown, or any armband, made with leather which has metallic spikes, points or studs or any similar device made from any other substance or a cestus or similar material weighted with metal or other substance and worn on the hand, or a manrikigusari or similar length of chain having weighted ends; or whoever, when arrested upon a warrant for an alleged crime, or when arrested while committing a breach or disturbance of the public peace, is armed with or has on his person, or has on his person or under his control in a vehicle, a billy or other dangerous weapon other than those herein mentioned and those mentioned in paragraph (a), shall be punished by imprisonment for not less than two and one-half years nor more than five years in the state prison, or for not less than six months nor more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction, except that, if the court finds that the defendant has not been previously convicted of a felony, he may be punished by a fine of not more than fifty dollars or by imprisonment for not more than two and one-half years in a jail or house of correction.


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## Buford T

*Re: Switchblades*

w.t.f. do you need a switchblade for anyhow? Isn't there enough toys on your belt?


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## 2-Delta

Just get a SOG Flash II. Assisted opening and it's a pisser knife.


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