# ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and ME ?



## EnforceOfficer

This is the way I understand how workplace safety enforcement works in the US...

State Plan states eg. Vermont, Michigan and Kentucky...These states have their own workplace safety enforcement agencies at the state level which inspect both private enterprise and public agencies such as police, city works yards to ensure safe workplaces; these states are certified by USDOL OSHA to do their own workplace safety enforcement, as part of their certification, state OSH law must include public workplaces...

Partial State plans eg. NY, NY, CT, and Illinois....USDOL OSHA enforces workplace safety laws upon private enterprise; State Dept. of Labor enforces workplace safety laws upon public agencies including municipal and state levels of government; these states are certified by USDOL OSHA to do OSH enforcement on local/state government agencies...


USDOL OSHA states eg MA, NH, ME, PA, OH etc: Workplace safety laws enforced upon private enterprise by USDOL OSHA; all other levels of government (except USPS) exempt from federal Occ. Safety and Health Act...

So who do you go to if you are assigned a patrol car in MA with bad brakes and the dept. refuses to fix them ?


----------



## Deuce

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

You serious? If so, easy answer: *no one*.....

My god, if OSHA came into my PD or saw what we drove, they'd shut us down...


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Deuce said:


> You serious? If so, easy answer: *no one*.....
> 
> My god, if OSHA came into my PD or saw what we drove, they'd shut us down...


The Ontario Ministry of Labour shut down a city's SWAT team about 10 years back because in the inspector's opinion, the the SWAT team's portable radio system wasn't good enough, thereby placing officer's safety in danger...

Ten years back, they also ordered the Ministry of Transportation to equipe Motor Carrier Enforcement Officers with provincial police radios, batons, handcuffs and body armour...

The way workplace safety enforcement works in Canada is that each province has it's own workplace safety laws and inspectors to cover private enterprise (minus railways and shipping), and public agencies such as provincial and local government...In every province, workers including Police Officers, have the right to refuse dangerous work; there are certain exceptions for Police, Firefighters and Corrections Officers(for example a police officer cannot refuse to take a dangerous call robbery call, but can refuse to drive a cruiser with bad brakes)...

The Federal government has it's own workplace safety laws and inspectors to cover federal government agencies, and the railway/shipping industry...The RCMP, Canada Border Services, Federal Park Wardens and Federal Game/Enviro. Officers are covered under these laws; again, workers including Police Officers, have the right to refuse dangerous work; there are certain exceptions for Police, Corrections Officers(for example a police officer cannot refuse to take a dangerous call robbery call, but can refuse to drive a cruiser with bad brakes)...

Canada Border Services and Federal Game Wardens have done work refusals due to (in the past) not being armed, which eventually led to both agencies...

Provincial Labour Inspectors have a lot of power, they saw some Municipal Bylaw Enforcement Officers doing stationary radar enforcement in a city in one of the territories, the inspector didn't like the colour of the Officer's jackets (red with silver reflective stripes) as it related to visibility, so he ordered the city to the change officer's jackets to lime yellow with silver reflective stripes...


----------



## Eagle13

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

I had four answers:
1. No one
2. Each other
3. Yourself
4. NOT Deval


----------



## pahapoika

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

UV lights were installed at the prison infirmaries thanks to OSHA.

pretty sad when you have to rat out your own department, but the state just won't do anything unless it's court ordered and then it takes forever if at all.

unless the inmates sue and then the DOC can't get it quick enough.

maybe it was the cons that sued for the lights, but our union is taking credit for it :shades_smile:


----------



## 263FPD

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Deuce said:


> You serious? If so, easy answer: *no one*.....
> 
> My god, if OSHA came into my PD or saw what we drove, they'd shut us down...


Don't you still drive these????


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



EnforceOfficer said:


> Canada Border Services and Federal Game Wardens have done work refusals due to (in the past) not being armed, which eventually led to both agencies...


Correction...Canada Border Services and Federal Game Wardens have done work refusals due to (in the past) not being armed, which eventually led to both agencies *becoming armed*...


----------



## rg1283

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

The MNA Represents mostly all of the State Hospital (Mental Health, Public Health and Retardation Facilitates)

The USELESS SEIU represents some employees. This union is very liberal and has done nothing to work to pass laws protecting employees of their union.

Then AFSCME which is even more useless unless your a clerical worker or janitor (no offense to them)


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



pahapoika said:


> UV lights were installed at the prison infirmaries thanks to OSHA.
> 
> pretty sad when you have to rat out your own department, but the state just won't do anything unless it's court ordered and then it takes forever if at all.
> 
> unless the inmates sue and then the DOC can't get it quick enough.
> 
> maybe it was the cons that sued for the lights, but our union is taking credit for it :shades_smile:


Around here, Provincial Corrections Officers do work refusals anytime inmates are served meat with bones in it (stab danger), the white shirts have to then watch the inmates until the Labour Ministry Inspectors arrive at the prison, order that all inmates to be searched for chicken bones and that inmates are to only be served boneless chicken...The Correction officers go back to work; since provincial corrections officers aren't issued stab vests, a chicken bone with a folded toilet-paper role handle can do a lot of damage...


----------



## 263FPD

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



EnforceOfficer said:


> Correction...Canada Border Services and Federal Game Wardens have done work refusals due to (in the past) not being armed, which eventually led to both agencies *becoming armed*...


Interesting you should mention stuff like this. Several years back I had an opportunity to network with CSIS. I was very surprised by how little authority this agency actually posses. If memory serves me, one of the agents told me that theirs is strictly an intel gathering function. No firearems and no arrest authority. It was a few years back so I may be wrong


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



263FPD said:


> Interesting you should mention stuff like this. Several years back I had an opportunity to network with CSIS. I was very surprised by how little authority this agency actually posses. If memory serves me, one of the agents told me that theirs is strictly an intel gathering function. No firearems and no arrest authority. It was a few years back so I may be wrong


Still the same...RCMP does any arrests they for them...CSIS operates much like New Zealand's secret squirrels, unarmed and very much behind the scenes...You'd never see a guy with a raid jacket with "CSIS" on the back...


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



mtc said:


> I have to get across a pothole filled parking lot to get into a *building where I'm breathing God only knows what,* cross a scumbag filled lobby to go pee....


Sick building syndrome... Sick Building Syndrome | Indoor Air | US EPA


----------



## Guest

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

Huh? You are soon to join my blocked list next to CJIS and Coop. Isn't there a CannuckistanCops.com or something ?


----------



## pahapoika

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

used to think Canada was like an annex of the USA or something , but you guys have some F-up laws :shades_smile:

mentioned this before, while on vacation met some great guys from the local PD just outside Toronto and was surprised they checked their sidearms in and out everyday.

is this the case with the game wardens as well ?

seems strange the Canadian government would trust a cop to carry a pistol 8 hours a day , but not take said firearm home.


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



pahapoika said:


> used to think Canada was like an annex of the USA or something , but you guys have some F-up laws :shades_smile:
> 
> mentioned this before, while on vacation met some great guys from the local PD just outside Toronto and was surprised they checked their sidearms in and out everyday.
> 
> is this the case with the game wardens as well ?


A lot of Federal and Provincial *Game Wardens* in the remote (much of Canada) work from home, so I imagine some keep their firearms at home in a employer-provided safe...All Federal Game Wardens and Provincial Conservation Officers carry sidearms in Canada; The last province to arm it's Conservation Officers was Newfoundland, they were armed after many assaults; Provincial Police, Ministry of Justice Fisheries Officers and Provincial Conservations Officers in Newfoundland now carry sidearms, however their Sheriff's Officers do not (Uniformed, carry batons/OC spray, keep order in courts and do prisoner transfers) carry sidearms, nor does Provincial Highway Enforcement...

Now National Capital Commission Conservations Officers do NOT carry sidearms; while they are law enforcement, carry batons and OC spray and carry out traffic stops in the National Capital area, their duties are more like City of Boston Park Rangers versus traditional provincial Conservation Officers; the National Capital Com, Conservation Officers aren't out there chasing poachers, more like arresting drunks and handling other lower level offences...

Federal *Park Wardens* are now armed; in the provinces that have Park Wardens, I don't think any are armed with sidearms, just batons/batons and OC spray, and ya provincial wardens carry out traffic stops...

To be honest, I don't even think Newfoundland and Labrador Highway Enforcement Officers even carry batons or OC spray at this point...

---------- Post added at 21:59 ---------- Previous post was at 21:55 ----------




USMCMP5811 said:


> Snipe's got a point. This is Masscops, and down here in the lower 48, we do things a little different here........


You mean like University Police in Rhode Island carrying nothing but handcuffs...lol...Reminds me of University of Toronto Police until the mid-2000s, U of T Police is made up of Special Constables with all the power of a Police Officer, could do traffic stops, etc...But management didn't let them carry anything but handcuffs until 2005 or so when they got batons...

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:59 ----------




SniperGAF said:


> Isn't there a CannuckistanCops.com or something ?


 There is a Canadian LE forum, but it's nothing more "my junk is bigger than yours"...Lots of fighting between different levels of law enforcement, a City Cop will make a joke about some of the Mountie's traditions, the Mountie will take personally and all-out shit fight happens...


----------



## vtdeputy

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

man sounds like the same shit that happens here in the states.....staties vs locals, staties & locals vs county, Feds vs everyone...hmmm


----------



## Deuce

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



263FPD said:


> Don't you still drive these????


No way, that thing is way nicer than our sleds...


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



vtdeputy said:


> man sounds like the same shit that happens here in the states.....staties vs locals, staties & locals vs county, Feds vs everyone...hmmm


Ya...In the case of Vermont, they even made a movie about it, right meow ? :teeth_smile:


----------



## pahapoika

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

any news on repealing that gun ban that went so well up there ?

heard Canada would never have the money to enforce it.

might be a bit naive here , but isn't there allot of open space up there with wild animals and long response times for LE ?

banning firearms in that kind of open country doesn't make sense.


----------



## EnforceOfficer

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



pahapoika said:


> any news on repealing that gun ban that went so well up there ?
> 
> heard Canada would never have the money to enforce it.
> 
> might be a bit naive here , but isn't there allot of open space up there with wild animals and long response times for LE ?
> 
> banning firearms in that kind of open country doesn't make sense.


The current Conservative government (although in a minority government situation) is slowing cutting off funding to the long gun registry, many Attorney Generals have told police/conservation officers not to enforce long gun registration laws on licensed gun owners...The long gun registry is dying a slow death...

Contrary to common belief, there is no gun ban in Canada; there are millions of long gun owners across the country, and a good number of legal handgun owners too (license for a handgun is harder to get then a long gun)...Long gun ownership is VERY common in rural Canada


----------



## Jess Wasseth

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

One of my greatest concerns is where does a first responder go to process the horrible/traumatic/unspeakable? Are the current programs truly confidential, safe and useful?

I was a civilian (psycho-therapist) in a MA PD (under a Fed. Grant) developing the entire DV program for the force and community. I ended up having the honor of being a safe and *confidential* resource for 'my guys' to help process the horror and stress of what happens on an all to regular basis.

My hope and goal is to have _effective strategies and tools_ in place for all departments to utilize willingly and in confidence.

I would appreciate any feedback about what you think is helpful and not (like sitting in a room for hours for CE units and not learning anything) 
Thx
Jess


----------



## Deuce

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

Well Lazarus, you asked...

Helpful:








or









Unhelpful:


----------



## Guest

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Jess Wasseth said:


> One of my greatest concerns is where does a first responder go to process the horrible/traumatic/unspeakable? Are the current programs truly confidential, safe and useful?


Both the Boston Police and MSP have peer support units that are available to police officers from any department. The peer counselors have the same confidentiality rights as any credentialed mental health provider, thanks to the Supreme Judicial Court; a peer counselor from the MSP was ordered by a judge to reveal the substance of his counseling sessions with a trooper who was on trial, and he refused. He was sent to jail for contempt, and the SJC ruled in his favor;

BERNARD vs. COMMONWEALTH, 424 Mass. 32


----------



## chief801

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Jess Wasseth said:


> One of my greatest concerns is where does a first responder go to process the horrible/traumatic/unspeakable? Are the current programs truly confidential, safe and useful?
> 
> I was a civilian (psycho-therapist) in a MA PD (under a Fed. Grant) developing the entire DV program for the force and community. I ended up having the honor of being a safe and *confidential* resource for 'my guys' to help process the horror and stress of what happens on an all to regular basis.
> 
> My hope and goal is to have _effective strategies and tools_ in place for all departments to utilize willingly and in confidence.
> 
> I would appreciate any feedback about what you think is helpful and not (like sitting in a room for hours for CE units and not learning anything)
> Thx
> Jess


We use a confidential public safety employee assistance program specifically for police, fire, and ems personnel. Employees contact them via a toll free number and get set-up with a counselor (substance abuse, marriage, finances, health and diet, whatever...). The only access I have to information is the number of inquiries made every year, and I don't even know which agency they were from. I know it has been used from the reports, which I only check yearly to make sure what we are paying for is being used. When I notice a dip in usage, I just assume it is time to remind everyone that it is out there for use. The cost is based on agency size, and is very reasonable...


----------



## Deuce

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Wolfman said:


> Same but different: Who's the only guy in a construction setup with no hardhat?


The hack cop bankrupting the state.....


----------



## justanotherparatrooper

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*

"I gots yer back"


----------



## csauce777

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



Delta784 said:


> Both the Boston Police and MSP have peer support units that are available to police officers from any department. The peer counselors have the same confidentiality rights as any credentialed mental health provider, thanks to the Supreme Judicial Court; a peer counselor from the MSP was ordered by a judge to reveal the substance of his counseling sessions with a trooper who was on trial, and he refused. He was sent to jail for contempt, and the SJC ruled in his favor;
> 
> BERNARD vs. COMMONWEALTH, 424 Mass. 32


I took the basic and advanced courses for the peer/group critical stress management teams. There were several BPD officers in my class who had volunteered for their stress team, as well as officers from numerous other departments. The whole idea behind it is that cops (and other responders) generally have little trust or interest in civilian book-worm types that profess their ability to help "us" cope with the stresses of the job. No offense to those "types," but if your knowledge of the job is from watching COPS, and reading psych journals, if it was me, I'd take my chances with another cop.


----------



## Guest

*Re: ok...who looks out for Police and other gov. workers in states like MA, NH, and M*



csauce777 said:


> I took the basic and advanced courses for the peer/group critical stress management teams. There were several BPD officers in my class who had volunteered for their stress team, as well as officers from numerous other departments. The whole idea behind it is that cops (and other responders) generally have little trust or interest in civilian book-worm types that profess their ability to help "us" cope with the stresses of the job. No offense to those "types," but if your knowledge of the job is from watching COPS, and reading psych journals, if it was me, I'd take my chances with another cop.


That is a perfect summation of the need for police peer support units, and also one reason why I'm in the process of becoming a "book-worm" credentialed mental health professional....I'll have the instant credibility of being a street cop for 20+ years.


----------



## csauce777

Delta784 said:


> That is a perfect summation of the need for police peer support units, and also one reason why I'm in the process of becoming a "book-worm" credentialed mental health professional....I'll have the instant credibility of being a street cop for 20+ years.


Right...I don't say "book-worm" as an insult, but more to indicate the lack of any practical experience in the LE field with which to base their sessions with cops on. YOU getting your "book-worm" credentials will give you credibility with main stream MH professionals, and serves to round out your abilities. You've already earned it with our folks. The MH people teaching/participating in the public safety peer/group stress courses understand the concept and support it.


----------

