# Bachmann Silent on Allegations Her Clinic Offers Gay Conversion Therapy



## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

Bachmann Silent on Allegations Her Clinic Offers Gay Conversion Therapy ABC News - ‎39 minutes ago‎
Republican presidential candidate, Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn., speaks to employees and guests at the Cemen Tech, Inc. plant in Indianola, Iowa, July 11, 2011. 
Clinic tied to Bachmann questioned over therapies Huffington Post

Michele Bachmann's clinic accused of trying to straighten out gays Los Angeles Times


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

So what?

I'm assuming that the clinic people aren't out there kidnapping gay people and trying to "convert" them against their will.....if someone doesn't want to be gay, whose business is it if they want help to "convert"? A friend of mine admitted to me a few years ago he was gay (he's still not completely "out"), and I asked him if he could flip a switch and be straight, would he do it, and he said "I'd give anything to be able to do that".


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## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

Delta784 said:


> So what?
> 
> I'm assuming that the clinic people aren't out there kidnapping gay people and trying to "convert" them against their will.....if someone doesn't want to be gay, whose business is it if they want help to "convert"? A friend of mine admitted to me a few years ago he was gay (he's still not completely "out"), and I asked him if he could flip a switch and be straight, would he do it, and he said "I'd give anything to be able to do that".


I think you hit it right on the nose. These people want to go, they a seeking the help. No one is forcing them to go or forcing them to choose the treatment. I am sure many of the people going could be already married and are seeking a way to perhaps suppress the feelings in order to stay married and not break up the family. This is something that should be encouraged.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

CJIS said:


> I think you hit it right on the nose. These people want to go, they a seeking the help. No one is forcing them to go or forcing them to choose the treatment. I am sure many of the people going could be already married and are seeking a way to perhaps suppress the feelings in order to stay married and not break up the family. This is something that should be encouraged.


I didn't even think about the marriage factor, great point (my friend is single).


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

This not something she should be ashamed of and has to respond that she's offering a service to those that think it's in their best interest to try because of their conflicted feelings. You know the liberal media will beat up on her for this, but if she handles it properly maybe it will shut her critics up.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

cc3915 said:


> This not something she should be ashamed of and has to respond that she's offering a service to those that think it's in their best interest to try because of their conflicted feelings.


Exactly....if someone is gay and is happy with it, then more power to them. If they're not, there should be help available to them, either to help them deal with those conflicted feelings, and if they can't, to try to change.


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## Herrdoktor (Jun 23, 2010)

You condemn such "therapy" because its bullshit.

You don't blame the guy buying the snake oil hoping it will cure his "ailment" you blame the asshole trying to sell it to him.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Herrdoktor said:


> You condemn such "therapy" because its bullshit.
> 
> You don't blame the guy buying the snake oil hoping it will cure his "ailment" you blame the asshole trying to sell it to him.


Ummm.....what?

Is "gay conversion therapy" effective? I have no idea, even though I have advanced training in psychology, simply because there doesn't seem to be much empirical research in the area, which I speculate is due to pressure from the gay lobby and the mainstream media.

I remember years ago reading (I can't remember where, so I unfortunately can't cite a source) that homosexuals have different brain chemistry than heterosexuals, something that could be theoretically "cured" (I hate to use that word, because it implies that homosexuality is a disease, which I don't think it is) through drug therapy.

Heard of it?

Yeah, most people haven't, because it's been suppressed.

What I find most ironic about this whole thing is that the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, and Transgender) community fully embraces people who feel like they were born the wrong gender to "convert" (have SRS-Sexual Reassignment Surgery....a sex change), which is something I fully support. I did a major research project at school about the whole concept of Transgender, and developed a lot of sympathy/respect for them. I can't even imagine what it's like to feel like you were born the wrong gender.

However, this same group appears to vehemently oppose Gay/Lesbian people from "converting"....in essence, in their view, it's okay for a male who feels like he should be a woman to have major urilogical/plastic surgery to change gender, but it's absolutely unacceptable for a man who is attracted to men, or a woman who is attracted to women, to undergo non-surgical, non-invasive psychotherapy, in order to "convert".

Sorry....but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.


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## Herrdoktor (Jun 23, 2010)

If you can find a respected medical article showing that this type of therapy is effective I will gladly read it, but imo this all seems like some hardcore religious indoctrination false science bs.


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## HistoryHound (Aug 30, 2008)

Herrdoktor said:


> If you can find a respected medical article showing that this type of therapy is effective I will gladly read it, but imo this all seems like some hardcore religious indoctrination false science bs.


Even if it is "hardcore religious indoctrination" (which I don't know if it is or isn't) it's a service that is being sought by the people receiving it. I've always been comfortable with who I am, so I don't have the slightest idea what it feels like for someone who is not comfortable with who they are. I don't see why offering this type of therapy is a problem as long as the participants are informed and consenting. The people seeking this treatment are obviously not happy with something about themselves, whether it's being conflicted about their sexuality or something else that they haven't figured out yet. Why deny them a service that may help them find happiness with themselves? I don't think homosexuality is a disease or disorder, but that doesn't mean that if someone is unhappy with their sexual orientation they should only be offered services that will allow them to accept their homosexuality. As Delta pointed out, you wouldn't ban gender reassignment surgeries so why ban conversion therapy? The simple truth is that no matter how accepting society becomes or how many services are available, there will likely still be people who are gay who for whatever reason don't want to be gay. Why should those people suffer in silence? If heterosexuality is normal and heterosexuals have the right to be happy and homosexuality is normal and homosexuals have the right to be happy; then, don't the people who want to change that aspect of themselves entitled to be happy?

As for a medical article proving the effectiveness of conversion therapy, I think you're asking for something that won't be available for many years. I know that there has been various types of "conversion therapy" for decades, but I don't think you can look at programs where the participants were there against their will. I could be wrong, again I'm no expert here, but I would venture to guess that conversion therapy for willing participants is a fairly new therapy. If you truly want a report based on a valid study; then, it is going to take years. We're talking about a therapy that relies on the subjected feelings of the individuals, so it would have to be a large study to hold any real value. I caution anyone who denies the efficacy or validity of any treatment just because they don't believe or understand the principles behind it. As medicine has evolved there are many treatments that were once thought to be a bunch of garbage that have shown to be effective. The two that have been making their way into the mainstream lately are chiropractic and accupuncture therapy. I've had several different medical doctors recommend both as part of my course of treatment.

Delta, I remember that brain chemistry study you mentioned. I can't remember where I saw it, but I'll take a look through some of my daughter's books and see if they mention it. She just finished a sociology class that spent a significant amount of time on GLBT issues.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2011)

Herrdoktor said:


> If you can find a respected medical article showing that this type of therapy is effective I will gladly read it, but imo this all seems like some hardcore religious indoctrination false science bs.


The whole concept of psychotherapy was once regarded as BS, until empirical research showed its effectiveness, when provided in the correct manner in the correct setting. I'm speculating here, because there is no empirical evidence I've seen either way, but IMO research into gay conversion therapy will be severely restricted, if allowed at all, due to pressure from the gay lobby and the mainstream media, which will limit or eliminate funding for research.

Is being homosexual "wrong"? Absolutely, positively not. However, and I'm once again offering my opinion, the gay lobby perceives this whole concept as treating homsexuality as a disease or a mental disorder, and will fight it, tooth & nail to the bitter end.

However, I find it breathtakingly hypocritical that the GLBT community on one hand will condemn gay conversion therapy because some people feel uncomfortable with their sexual preference, while at the same time they fully support those who want to have major surgery, because they feel uncomfortable with their gender.

I would say you can't have it both ways, but with the full backing of the liberal media, apparently you can, regarding this subject.


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## cc3915 (Mar 26, 2004)

*Michele Bachmann hubby's anti-gay crusade strikes media funnybone*

Politicians and pundits told the Herald this week that the media unfairly targets Michele Bachmann because she's a woman.
Respectfully, I'd say we target her because she's a nut.
But she's a telegenic, charismatic, ultra-right and gorgeous nut who's leading *Mitt Romney* in almost every Iowa Caucus poll. (Barack Obama's 2008 Iowa win propelled him to stardom and eventually the White House). In two national polls released Friday, Bachmann's running fourth.

Wow.
It's Sarah Palin Part II with all the Palin-esque drama and soap opera.

Michele Bachmann hubby's anti-gay crusade strikes media funnybone - BostonHerald.com


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## cpd4720 (Oct 16, 2008)

The American Psychological Association published a comprehensive report reputing the effectiveness of ex-gay (or reparative therapy) ministries. The governing body of the mental health organization examined 83 studies on sexual orientation dating back to 1960 and found no substantial evidence that homosexuality can be cured through therapy or any other means as many ex-gay ministries claim. The report urged mental health professionals not to advise clients that they can become straight through therapy or other treatments. Every other reputable Psychological group has also debunked the notion that someone can convert from Homosexual to heterosexual.

If a man or woman wishes to use prayer to surpress thier same sex attraction, I say fine, I hope they are happy. Marcus Bachman appears to quite happy living in the closet.

The probelm is that teenagers are brought to these Christian Counseling Centers and reparative camps and the idea that they are defective and need to change are drilled into them. This leads to severe depression and suicide amoung gay teens.

If prayer and conversion therapy can change a person from Gay to Strait. Can prayer and Christian based conversion counseling turn a Strait person into a Gay Man or a Lesbian?

I find it quite hyprcritical that Bachman rails about government funding but she is happy to take both State and Federal funding for her unlicensed Christian Counseling Clinic.




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## Guest (Jul 30, 2011)

cpd4720 said:


> The American Psychological Association published a comprehensive report reputing the effectiveness of ex-gay (or reparative therapy) ministries. The governing body of the mental health organization examined 83 studies on sexual orientation dating back to 1960 and found no substantial evidence that homosexuality can be cured through therapy or any other means as many ex-gay ministries claim. The report urged mental health professionals not to advise clients that they can become straight through therapy or other treatments. Every other reputable Psychological group has also debunked the notion that someone can convert from Homosexual to heterosexual.​




Psychotherapy is very much a moving target....Freud's Psychoanalytic Theory was once considered cutting-edge, but the fathers of cognitive therapy (Albert Ellis and Aaron Beck) figured out that it wasn't effective, and went on to develop REBT and CBT, respectively.

Just because something now doesn't seem to be effective, it shouldn't be permanently cast aside and forever dismissed. Not too long ago, Electro-Shock Therapy was considered barbaric and was used as a "punishment", but in reality it's been proven to be very effective in treating severe clinical depression.

As I said before, is "gay conversion therapy" effective? I don't know, but if there's a chance it can help people in pain who want to change their sexual preference, it should at least be seriously looked at and refined.​


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