# Seattle Pd and the King County Sheriff OIS



## RodneyFarva (Jan 18, 2007)

Good all around, the communication, strategies and tactics are A+, ultimately sealed his own fate.
But watch his right hand starting to get squirrely and moving toward his belt line and inner jacket.

Seattle Police and the King County Sheriff's Office are conducting separate investigations into an early-morning homicide, and subsequent officer-involved shooting, that occurred early Thursday morning in the Northgate neighborhood.

At 3:25 AM, officers from the North Precinct were dispatched to a possible domestic violence incident at an apartment building in the 10500 block of Midvale Avenue North. Based on the information relayed to them from the SPD 911 Center and witnesses at the scene, the officers forced open the door of a third-floor apartment. As officers entered the apartment, they found a deceased woman inside. Two adults, a man and a woman, and two small children, a boy and a girl, were hiding in another room.

Police then contacted a man armed with a large knife in a bedroom. Two officers engaged the suspect, ordering him to drop the knife. During the encounter the officers fired their service weapons, fatally striking the suspect. The officers were not injured. Body worn video from the two involved officers shows them forcing entry into the area of the apartment of the deceased and engaging the suspect.
The officers escorted the uninjured adults and children out of the apartment.

Seattle Fire responded but both the victim and the armed man were declared deceased at the scene.

After the conclusion of the video, officers attempted life-saving measures on the suspect and rescued the family that had barricaded themselves in an adjacent room.

Detectives from the Force Investigation Team, CSI, and Homicide responded, as well as representatives from the Office of Police Accountability and the Inspector General.

Per the Department's agreement with King County Sheriff's Office (KCSO), and in line with Initiative 940, investigators from KCSO also responded to begin an independent investigation.

This remains an active and on-going investigation


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

There but for the Grace of God, have I gone so far.


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

good shoot. Judging from all the blood on the walls suspect hacked up the victim pretty good. Don't care what language you speak. When two uniformed officers enter the premises after you've just finished murdering somebody and have their guns pointed at you, you drop the knife.
Suspect was clearly insane, drunk , high , etc.


----------



## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

Maybe if they went in and cuffed him when he WAS on the ground, they wouldn’t have had to tell him 100x to get on the ground before they shot him?


----------



## patrol22 (Oct 31, 2015)

Roy Fehler said:


> Maybe if they went in and cuffed him when he WAS on the ground, they wouldn't have had to tell him 100x to get on the ground before they shot him?


That's a great way to get stabbed by a suspect who just killed someone and has a knife laying right next to them


----------



## Bloodhound (May 20, 2010)

I definitely heard the officer say "Her head is cut off".


----------



## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

patrol22 said:


> That's a great way to get stabbed by a suspect who just killed someone and has a knife laying right next to them


So just wait there and never go in?

Sometimes you have to do dangerous things as a cop. One officer secures the knife & cuffs while the other covers. Police Work 101.


----------



## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

The shooting itself was good, no question. The only thing missing here was less-lethal munitions. A Taser, beanbag shotgun, or 40mm would have been ideal as soon as he got up off the floor and before he came at them with the knife in his hand.

Of course these things don't always work perfectly, which is why lethal munitions should always be with less-lethal, just in case.


----------



## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Roy Fehler said:


> So just wait there and never go in?
> 
> Sometimes you have to do dangerous things as a cop. One officer secures the knife & cuffs while the other covers. Police Work 101.


Respectfully disagree 100%. While you are correct that we the police sometimes have to do dangerous things, that doesn't mean we have to put ourselves in dangerous situations unnecessarily. The way this suspect was behaving, he would have been able to pick up that knife and been able to stab or slice one of the officers as fast if not faster than they could shoot. I've seen it happen as I'm sure many others have too.

Our tactics (or lack there of) shouldn't be the reason we get involved in an OIS; it should be because of the suspect's actions, not ours. If time is on our side, take advantage of it. Make a plan and then put it into action. Unless lives are in imminent danger, there's no need to rush in.


----------



## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

LA Copper said:


> Respectfully disagree 100%. While you are correct that we the police sometimes have to do dangerous things, that doesn't mean we have to put ourselves in dangerous situations unnecessarily. The way this suspect was behaving, he would have been able to pick up that knife and been able stab or slice one of the officers as fast if not faster than they could shoot. I've seen it happen as I'm sure many others have too.
> 
> Our tactics shouldn't be the reason we get involved in an OIS; it should be because of the suspect's actions, not ours.


I disagree, you have one confirmed homicide with an unknown amount of other victims inside, possibly needing urgent medical care.

The suspect initially complied with the officer's orders, then the officers were waiting for......what I don't know, but it could have cost more lives.

I don't care that the guy was shot, good riddance, my concern would be for the other victims inside.


----------



## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Understood. We'll agree to disagree on this one.


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

*Roy Fehler* and* LA Copper* are both right in that they are arguing this from totally different types of experience. What would I do? I cannot say as I have not dealt with it. We must all pray we DO NOT have to ever deal with it, but hope and pray harder that if we do, whatever we do.....WORKS! That means, keeps US safe, keeps OTHERS safe, DOES NOT get us sued or worse, prosecuted.


----------



## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

One of the extremely rare cases of swift and 100% effective justice. He got what he deserved before the courts could fuck it up. 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

Hush said:


> One of the extremely rare cases of swift and 100% effective justice. He got what he deserved before the courts could fuck it up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


I don't thing many could argue that statement. For those whose hearts bleed, it's sad it came to this, but who's fault is it? The perpetrators, no if's and's or buts.


----------



## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Roy Fehler said:


> So just wait there and never go in?
> 
> Sometimes you have to do dangerous things as a cop. One officer secures the knife & cuffs while the other covers. Police Work 101.


Completely disagree. Police Work 101 = Going home safe at the end of your shift....not putting yourself in harms way unnecessarily. We enforce the law and protect people, in a SAFE AND TACTICAL manner,


----------



## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Roy Fehler said:


> I disagree, you have one confirmed homicide with an unknown amount of other victims inside, possibly needing urgent medical care.
> 
> The suspect initially complied with the officer's orders, then the officers were waiting for......what I don't know, but it could have cost more lives.
> 
> I don't care that the guy was shot, good riddance, my concern would be for the other victims inside.


You're arguing with an LAPD officer who's been on the job 30 years and has BTDT way more than you.


----------



## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Joel98 said:


> You're arguing with an LAPD officer who's been on the job 30 years and has BTDT way more than you.


True!
However, he's never been an SSPO.........just saying


----------



## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

Joel98 said:


> You're arguing with an LAPD officer who's been on the job 30 years and has BTDT way more than you.


+1


----------



## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Joel98 said:


> Completely disagree. Police Work 101 = Going home safe at the end of your shift....not putting yourself in harms way unnecessarily. We enforce the law and protect people, in a SAFE AND TACTICAL manner,


If your number 1 goal is to go home every night....you really picked a terrible career! There's guns, fast driving, people who want to kill you....things you'll never have to worry about if you sell insurance or real estate. I agree with being as well trained and tactically sound as possible and not taking unnecessary risks, but sometimes the job calls for up to, and including, self sacrifice in defense of others. I wouldn't give mouth-to-mouth to a junkie, but pulling up to an elementary school solo and charging in alone following the sounds of gunfire might be the RIGHT , but most tactically unsound thing to do.

I do get what you're saying, but the job is inherently dangerous. The "go home safe" mantra is a little dated and I think sets the wrong mindset. You have to be technically and tactically sound enough to know WHEN you need to go all in...or you end up like deputy peterson in Florida

As for THIS story, what better gift all wrapped up with a bow (despite the horrible circumstances) Responding to a call find a woman with her head CUT OFF. The doer is still there, covered in blood, and holding a knife...and refusing to comply! You get to put him down. Nobody wants to have to take a life, but if life puts you in that position you should know in your soul it was a sound and righteous decision. I hope that officer slept like a baby, had some good sex with his wife, and his only regret is that he couldn't have been there sooner to save the victim.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

mpd61 said:


> True!
> However, he's never been an SSPO.........just saying


Oh yes of course! How could I forget?


----------



## Joel98 (Mar 2, 2011)

Hush said:


> If your number 1 goal is to go home every night....you really picked a terrible career! There's guns, fast driving, people who want to kill you....things you'll never have to worry about if you sell insurance or real estate. I agree with being as well trained and tactically sound as possible and not taking unnecessary risks, but sometimes the job calls for up to, and including, self sacrifice in defense of others. I wouldn't give mouth-to-mouth to a junkie, but pulling up to an elementary school solo and charging in alone following the sounds of gunfire might be the RIGHT , but most tactically unsound thing to do.
> 
> I do get what you're saying, but the job is inherently dangerous. The "go home safe" mantra is a little dated and I think sets the wrong mindset. You have to be technically and tactically sound enough to know WHEN you need to go all in...or you end up like deputy peterson in Florida
> 
> ...


??

Cops have been saying 'get home safe' for generations. It still applies today just as it always did, probably even more so.


----------



## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

Joel98 said:


> ??
> 
> Cops have been saying 'get home safe' for generations. It still applies today just as it always did, probably even more so.


It is a goal, but it shouldn't be the number ONE goal. Again, I get the sentiment and agree but I think it doesn't support the hunter mindset that is sometimes called for. There are different "priority of life" lists, some places put the officer first (not wrong), some put the offender higher than the officer (VERY wrong) but I think the innocent victims/hostages should be the top, then yourself or fellow officers, then bystanders ...with offender all the way down the bottom. Now that has started me down a rabbit hole that not all "innocent" victims are innocent, and on and on. 
I'm trying to say that "get home safe" isn't wrong, but there's times when it just might not be possible and the mental and moral fitness to make that decision on the spot has to be prepared for beforehand. Having to adjust your priorities on the fly leaves you open to a hasty and possibly dangerous situation, or vulnerable to severe emotional trauma and PTSD afterwards.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk


----------



## LA Copper (Feb 11, 2005)

Joel98 said:


> Completely disagree. Police Work 101 = Going home safe at the end of your shift....not putting yourself in harms way *unnecessarily.* We enforce the law and protect people, in a SAFE AND TACTICAL manner,


The key word here is "unnecessarily." There are obviously some instances where we as officers have to run into harm's way, however those are thankfully few and far between. An active shooter or an armed suspect running towards civilians come to mind.

Apparently our training is different around the country thus leading to a differing of opinions. In that spirit, it's always good to see the way others think and hopefully be able to learn from each other. My department conducts a debrief there at scene after every tactical incident (except an OIS) whenever possible so we can all learn something from that incident for when the next one happens because as we all know, there will be a next one.


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

My time to truly go home safe will be after a shift at the local grocery store where I bagged groceries; well after retiring from this damn job, which I still love even though I HATE my current job. (see many previous posts)


----------



## CCCSD (Jul 30, 2017)

LA Copper said:


> The shooting itself was good, no question. The only thing missing here was less-lethal munitions. A Taser, beanbag shotgun, or 40mm would have been ideal as soon as he got up off the floor and before he came at them with the knife in his hand.
> 
> Of course these things don't always work perfectly, which is why lethal munitions should always be with less-lethal, just in case.


I'm going to tread on this slightly...LAPD has this thing about ducking around for hours getting teamed up with LL, perimeter, Sgts, Air Support, etc, when shit needs to be handled NOW! I watched a recent BWC OIS video of the suspect who stabbed a victim who was hiding in the house bleeding, while they dicked around. They allowed the suspect to dictate every move, even though they KNEW there was at least one still alive inside.

I'm just saying that relying on BS LL etc instead of taking on the suspect and finding the victims before they died is more important RIGHT THEN.

I am not trying to start a fight, just pointing out that there ARE times we GO. That's what you're paid for...


----------



## Roy Fehler (Jun 15, 2010)

Joel98 said:


> You're arguing with an LAPD officer who's been on the job 30 years and has BTDT way more than you.


First, I'm not "arguing". Disagreement isn't arguing.
Second, you have absolutely no idea about me, my job, my training, or what I've experienced. 
Try disagreeing with me on the substance of what I've posted, not on your baseless assumptions.


----------



## Kilvinsky (Jan 15, 2007)

I honestly believe that, we just don't know exactly what we'll do in a given situation until we are IN that situation; and every single situation is different, maybe in a huge way, maybe in a tiny minute way. It's easy to second guess anyone when you're not the one there at that moment. And I'm not talking about those instances where Helen Keller could clearly see where someone screwed up, I'm talking MOST situations, where someone does something that turns out good, yet 1/2 the world has 20K opinions as to what SHOULD have been done.

I just always pray I do the right thing and can justify it.

Dead body, nutjob waving around a machete, I can't find a reason to condemn these guys at all. Could it have been done differently? Sure, I suppose it's possible. Who cares? Not me.


----------

