# Dive Team



## Dave713

I am trying to start up a Dive Team within my PD, I obtainined all the initial PS Diver certifications on my own, with my own equipment. Until I can find grant / donation $$$ for equipment, we will be using our own personal equipment. Does anyone have any idea how to document / manage this so that if something gets damaged / someone gets hurt it will be covered... I have called MIIA several times and am getting the runaround. I have heard that there are several teams in MA that do use their own equipment. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.


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## Killjoy

Doesn't the MSP have a dive team that handles things that the taxpayers already fund?


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## rg1283

I know some fire departments in towns that have large bodies of water have dive teams. I think MSP is the only police dive team in MA.


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## Guest

rg1283 said:


> I think MSP is the only police dive team in MA.


Negative...the Quincy PD has had a dive team since the 1950's.

To the OP.....call Lieutenant Bob Gillan at the Quincy PD (617) 479-1212....he can explain the process.


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## BRION24

Why would your town even want the liability or cost of you using your own equipment for a dive when the MSP has trained divers who use job issued equipment.


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## BRION24

USMCMP5811 said:


> Maybe for the same reason why certain Departments went to the LEC's........
> View attachment 2235


I don't understand the LEC thing either.

If your department is large enough and you have the specific call volume to justify a particular unit then go ahead and create a specialized unit to handle it. The only problem that I see with "some" LECs is that why duplicate the service already offered by the MSP. If your town has a dive once or twice a year then why would you have a dive unit, if you have 1 fatal crash a year then why would you have a accident recon unit.

For example I work with a guy on the dive team. He dives at least 4-5 times a month and not just for training. So he has a ton of experience diving because he is doing it all the time. Also Accident Recon is upstairs in my barracks and those guys handle dozens of cases each every year so they are very skilled at accident recon. I would imagine that on a LEC recon team you may only have 1 maybe 2 recons a year and how sharp can your skills stay when you don't use them.

I am not trying to make this a LEC vs MSP thing but there are cases where I see the need for a LEC and others were I don't.


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## cc3915

BRION24 said:


> I don't understand the LEC thing either.
> 
> If your department is large enough and you have the specific call volume to justify a particular unit then go ahead and create a specialized unit to handle it. The only problem that I see with "some" LECs is that why duplicate the service already offered by the MSP. If your town has a dive once or twice a year then why would you have a dive unit, if you have 1 fatal crash a year then why would you have a accident recon unit.
> 
> For example I work with a guy on the dive team. He dives at least 4-5 times a month and not just for training. So he has a ton of experience diving because he is doing it all the time. Also Accident Recon is upstairs in my barracks and those guys handle dozens of cases each every year so they are very skilled at accident recon. I would imagine that on a LEC recon team you may only have 1 maybe 2 recons a year and how sharp can your skills stay when you don't use them.
> 
> I am not trying to make this a LEC vs MSP thing but there are cases where I see the need for a LEC and others were I don't.


It's a strange combination of politics, fiefdoms and MONEY!


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## 7costanza

> fiefdoms


Thats a big word, what did you get on your SATs a 1400? ,your an astronaut not a fuckin Statie.


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## cc3915

7costanza said:


> Thats a big word, what did you get on your SATs a 1400? ,your an astronaut not a fuckin Statie.


No, I'm just a fan of medieval history.


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## Guest

BRION24 said:


> I don't understand the LEC thing either.
> 
> If your department is large enough and you have the specific call volume to justify a particular unit then go ahead and create a specialized unit to handle it. The only problem that I see with "some" LECs is that why duplicate the service already offered by the MSP. If your town has a dive once or twice a year then why would you have a dive unit, if you have 1 fatal crash a year then why would you have a accident recon unit.
> 
> For example I work with a guy on the dive team. He dives at least 4-5 times a month and not just for training. So he has a ton of experience diving because he is doing it all the time. Also Accident Recon is upstairs in my barracks and those guys handle dozens of cases each every year so they are very skilled at accident recon. I would imagine that on a LEC recon team you may only have 1 maybe 2 recons a year and how sharp can your skills stay when you don't use them.
> 
> I am not trying to make this a LEC vs MSP thing but there are cases where I see the need for a LEC and others were I don't.


We don't belong to a LEC, but the whole specialized unit thing comes down to that MSP often refused to respond to incidents when requested by a local PD. That's why K-9 units from my PD are often called out to cities and towns quite far away; I'm not talking exclusively for just-happened crimes, but for "routine" things like drug/gun sweeps in schools that MSP didn't think were worth their time. At one school sweep out of our city, the supervisor of our K-9 unit called MSP to let them know we were there, inviting them to particpate. He was told not only that MSP wasn't responding, but that we were not to go. Our supervisor said we were already there, and hung up.

What seems to have happened is that MSP was the only option for so long, and now they're freaking out that everyone else got tired of being dependent on them, and looked into other options. Now that they're willing to play again, a lot of departments have moved on to Plan B, and it seems to be working just fine.

As mentioned, we're not in a LEC, I'm not (nor will I likely ever again be) in a specialty unit, and if I need a dog I don't give a rat's ass where it comes from....these are just my observations as an observer on the sidelines.


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## Guest

I'll have to agree with Delta's response. The puzzle palace of Framingham and its political masters have made "No" or "Can you wait 5 hours" the more than frequent response to request for assistance. That in conjunction with the political power plays of some LEC supporters have marginalized the MSP. The troopers want to help and to do it quickly, but unfortunately, road dawgs do not run the show. 
Scan all the 800 or local channels frequently enough and you'll see the pattern. 

Sent from my ADR6300


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## Guest

MSP75 said:


> I'll have to agree with Delta's response. The puzzle palace of Framingham and its political masters have made "No" or "Can you wait 5 hours" the more than frequent response to request for assistance. That in conjunction with the political power plays of some LEC supporters have marginalized the MSP. The troopers want to help and to do it quickly, but unfortunately, road dawgs do not run the show.
> Scan all the 800 or local channels frequently enough and you'll see the pattern.


Thanks, I should have mentioned that's the attitude from the PTB, not the road troopers. I imagine it's much like us....our K-9 officers need approval from the brass before they leave the city on a mutual aid call. The MSP people on the road are always glad to help out, but often seem handcuffed by politics.


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## cj3441

The MSP needs to get a few grant writers on the payroll. I think we are missing the boat on some serious money that could be used to significantly beef up some units like K-9 which could improve the availability/response time. I look around and see other departments and Sheriffs making significant strides in training and equipment and the MSP just not keeping up.


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## cc3915

When I was a P/S, I got in the glue on several occasions for using a local or, God forgive, a sheriff's K9. Why should I wait for a K9 to come from Stoneham, when I need him in Dennis right now? The mission is to capture the bad guy, not worry over what pencil pusher's feelings get hurt.


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## cj3441

cc3915 said:


> When I was a P/S, I got in the glue on several occasions for using a local or, God forgive, a sheriff's K9. Why should I wait for a K9 to come from Stoneham, when I need him in Dennis right now? The mission is to capture the bad guy, not worry over what pencil pusher's feelings get hurt.


It's not about a pencil pusher's feelings, it's about a cash grab.


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## Guest

cj3441 said:


> The MSP needs to get a few grant writers on the payroll. I think we are missing the boat on some serious money that could be used to significantly beef up some units like K-9 which could improve the availability/response time. I look around and see other departments and Sheriffs making significant strides in training and equipment and the MSP just not keeping up.


I wish the fix was simply grant writers. There are numerous things that are the problem. One was a certain major that was finally asked to retire recently. Another is an unfriendly EOPSS for at least the last few administrations. Another is that the Federal government rules for grants are more to suitable southern style county divisions. Another is that the MSP is run by officers who haven't worn a class B uniform in thirty years. Another.... and the list goes on.

Sent from my ADR6300


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## mjg0519

Delta784 said:


> Negative...the Quincy PD has had a dive team since the 1950's.
> 
> To the OP.....call Lieutenant Bob Gillan at the Quincy PD (617) 479-1212....he can explain the process.


Salem Police also has a dive team. Lt. Prosniewski would be the commanding officer. 978-741-0171 ext. 200.
Salem Police Department Dive Team


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## Big.G

cc3915 said:


> When I was a P/S, I got in the glue on several occasions for using a local or, God forgive, a sheriff's K9.


Don't get me wrong. Just because the sole responsibility of the sheriffs is the care, custody, control and transport of prisoners doesn't mean they can't have a K9 to aid in that effort (drugs behind the wall, a prisoner escapes, etc). If I need assistance, I don't really care where it comes from. I really won't fault anyone calling for a sheriff's K9 unit if a K9 is needed and time is of the essence. What bothers me about the sheriff's office is when they invest in things primarily to assist PDs attempting to play a law enforcement role while neglecting their own problems with the jail/HOC. Yes, the sheriff's have limited powers. But, they are tools that may help them do their jobs as COs. Just like the DOC COs are sworn SSPOs to help them do their jobs, not to expand their job description to include law enforcement duties (in a policing/patrol sense outside the walls). I don't have a problem giving CO's at the HOC and state prison the authority to enforce immigration law behind their walls. Although, not everyone makes it to the HOC/state prison. Getting PD's on board with the Secure Communities MOA would be more effective. But, Dbag Deval won't let it happen...


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## firefighter39

Depending on where you are some of the FD District dive teams also have police on them too
View attachment 2243


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## Guest

firefighter39 said:


> Depending on where you are some of the FD District dive teams also have police on them too
> View attachment 2243


Around here, the fire departments mostly refused to get involved in anything but fighting fires, and now that their fire preventon efforts have paid off (very few big fires), they're looking for a seat when the music stops, but nearly all the seats are now taken by police and EMS.


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## rdmj72

Taunton has/had one the last time I looked. Although with all the pink slips going out soon, they may be "bye-bye" along with vice ect............:sad_smile:


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## harleyboss

Boston PD has a fully equipped dive team with 16 members with mobile command post and fill stations. Dive Team Commander: Sgt. Matt Kervin, BPD Special Operations Division, 617-343-5651.


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