# Female recruits pass NEW pt test



## PBC FL Cop

Saturday, November 25, 2006 
*Female recruits pass wall test*

Alteration may have fixed bias

*By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
**WORCESTER- *The three female police recruits hoping to join the local police academy recently passed a state-required physical abilities test, indicating that a changed climbing wall in the test may have mitigated possible gender bias.

Two more female police recruits may take the test soon. And with Boston police - the only other department to send recruits to the test - seeing its female recruits pass at better rates than before, concerns that the test was discriminatory seem to have been resolved.

"I think the adjustment made a big difference," Police Chief Gary J. Gemme said.

At issue was a significant disparity between men and women recruits who passed the test, which includes an obstacle course and several other physical tests meant to reflect work police do. Statewide statistics show that 92 percent of the men who took the test in recent years passed, compared to 30 percent of women. In the last Worcester recruit class, none of the six women recruits passed. In Boston, 11 of the 23 women who took the test earlier this year passed.

The statistics triggered concerns that the test discriminated against women, particularly at a time when police departments across the state are trying to diversify their forces by hiring more women police officers.

Police departments from Boston to Fall River and Worcester sent letters to the state calling for a review of the exam, and state Sen. Edward M. Augustus Jr., D-Worcester, led a legislative effort to help fund a review of the exam. Officials said they didn't want to create advantages for women, but that any test with such a disparity in results needed a review.

After the review, state officials changed the dynamics of a wall in the obstacle course. Concerns with the test had focused on the wall, and the adjustment seems to have allayed those concerns.

Previously, the 5-foot wall had a straight, smooth surface.

Women often had difficulty scaling the wall, and even those who could said it drained from them the energy needed to finish other parts of the obstacle course within the required time. Some women completed the course just seconds beyond the deadline.

Those who complained about the wall said it gave men an immediate advantage because men generally have the natural upper body strength needed to pull themselves over it. The wall required upper body strength because its straight surface allowed for no foot leverage.

Those who criticized the test, led by Chief Gemme, argued that the wall was an immediate disadvantage for women. Plus, they argued that the wall was an unrealistic reflection of police work. Rarely do officers encounter a five-foot wall with no foothold. Chief Gemme even argued that he would discourage officers from blindly scaling a five-foot wall anyway.

Chief Gemme contended that recruits shouldn't be judged on their fitness for the job solely on a five-foot wall. He said one of the female recruits in the last police class is a U.S. Army soldier serving oversees, even though she couldn't scale the wall.

The state review of the test led to a recent change in the wall. It now has two braces providing for foot leverage, making it easier to scale. A spokesman for the state administration said the wall is now a more realistic reflection of actual police work, because it is made more like a fence, something officers are more likely to encounter in their work settings.

Boston police even endorsed the test after seeing 68 percent of their female recruits in a recent class pass.

Chief Gemme has endorsed the change, saying improved statistics, after one minor adjustment, shows there was a problem with the original test.

The chief said he still has his concerns with the overall testing process, saying he should be able to train recruits before they're required to take the test, which he said should be called a graduation requirement.

He plans to express that idea at a statewide meeting Wednesday, called a "stakeholders" meeting with representatives from police departments across the state. The meeting is part of a continuing job analysis project to review the abilities test.

*If this tests proves too difficult they're talking about a new pt test, which allows the applicant to walk around the wall instead of going over it. That should eliminate the bias against lazy, fat bastards, which apparently exists now in the law enforcement profession. *


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## Wildbill

The current test too easy. They should go back to the Cooper Test. To make it any easier it just wrong. If they went back to the Cooper Standards you would not see new cops on the street, who are fat and look horrible in uniform, after just graduating from the Police Academy.


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## 94c

In related news, in order to shave time off the 1.5 mile run,
Worcester will be providing wheel chairs for what is now a downhill run.

More to follow on Eyewitness news at 5.


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## HPD104

What a joke!


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## Mitpo62

What message, if any, is conveyed to those females over the years that passed the test as it was? I think someone just opened up pandora's box.....inch:


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## Deuce

Fu**ing can't c*nt no load geek azzhOle!! That's it, typical POG nocom.. What a fu**ing PC pu**y answer, lower the standards.. No street cred, IOD loving, chairborne REMF...
Well let's see we already have a deaf guy on the job, hey chief how about a blind cop? These tests are definitely biased towards blind people, right? And it's against the law to deny a job based on age. Come on chiefy drop the biased age discrimination so my grandfather can get on the job. Hell he's only 86, he can get over the wall w/ a little help too..

:up_yours:


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## EBPD240

"indicating that a changed climbing wall in the test may have mitigated possible gender bias."


Yeah, its called being really fat!!!!!


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## misconceived

94c said:


> In related news, in order to shave time off the 1.5 mile run,
> Worcester will be providing wheel chairs for what is now a downhill run.
> 
> More to follow on Eyewitness news at 5.


 :L:


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## Guest

I heard the next step will be a take home PAT exam........ You just need a witness to sign saying they watched you climb the wall at home.


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## Macop

What a joke.


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## smilly217

Well considering the obstacle course is a joke anyways, it really doesn't matter that they put steps on the wall. That course is one of the easiest things I've ever seen. The way I look at it, is yeah it gets them in the academy, but it doesn't get them through the academy. It's giving people a false sense of security because then you'll fall flat on your face when you go to the academy and they have you running each day and doing PT for hours a day. They should just do the timed 1 1/2 mile run in 12:00 at the most and then some other type of little tests, this way you can't say it's biased or other garbage because it's a simple test.


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## Deuce

Sniper said:


> I heard the next step will be a take home PAT exam........ You just need a witness to sign saying they watched you climb the wall at home.


No no, chief gemme now wants the candidates to draw a wall w/ pencil and paper. But if you can't draw that's ok he'll train you *before* the test....


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## Tackleberry22

I knew this was coming. They got past phase 1. Let's see if they can survive the 6 month academy. Some how I have a feeling that the Chief will pull out most of the stops to keep the women in the academy. However, If they drop out, is the academy now biased??? [-X


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## 94c

Tackleberry22 said:


> I knew this was coming. They got past phase 1. Let's see if they can survive the 6 month academy. Some how I have a feeling that the Chief will pull out most of the stops to keep the women in the academy. However, If they drop out, is the academy now biased??? [-X


Within the first month the department has already invested too much time and money into the recruit. Short of them getting arrested, while in the academy, they will be carried through. Guaranteed.


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## 209

So what about fat males...can they use the step too. I mean I can understand a mild assistance for females but it seems as though they should just elimate the wall altogether for females.

Then again after you complete the academy what does fitness matter. There should be some sort of state standardized way to monitor Officers fitness throughout their careers. Military has the right idea. Fat out of shape cops are a liablity unless they are riding a desk.


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## Deuce

209 said:


> So what about fat males...can they use the step too. I mean I can understand a mild assistance for females but it seems as though they should just elimate the wall altogether for females.
> 
> Then again after you complete the academy what does fitness matter. There should be some sort of state standardized way to monitor Officers fitness throughout their careers. Military has the right idea. Fat out of shape cops are a liablity unless they are riding a desk.


 
I agree, unfortunately we're seeing the reprocussions of nonvet police chiefs that just don't get it...


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## extremesgs

if the job functions and requirements are the same for males and females, then the test should be exactly the same for both. There is no reason this should be otherwise.

Females (and fat males, etc. etc.- not to single them out...) are required to do the same things on this job. That being said, why would anyone get preference when it comes to testing their ability to perform certain physical tasks? They don't get preferences or accomodations made on the street. This, of course, is assuming that the "tasks" in question are relevant to the job funtions.

Interesting article relating to this topic:

http://www.policeone.com/health-fitness/articles/1192300


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## DVET1979

I agree, the test should be uniform for both men and women police applicants. I dont see how climbing a wall is discriminatory. Alot of people are kicking the age question around here as well. Frankly I dont understand why the age limit is cut off at 32 for many departments when you can stay on until you are at least 65.


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## ferus fidelitas

I went to the academy when it was required to pass pushup, sit up, run, obstacle course, weight lift etc... there was no wall or trigger pull. My question is regarding the new p a t standards... my understanding is that people under the new physical standards are required to re pass them every year... I know guys on the job for 10 yrs under the new standards that have never been required to pass the p a t again... does any police department make guys pass the p a t yearly.. ? that was suppose to be the requirement. Is it eally required, ... anywhere ?


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## OutOfManyOne

> I went to the academy when it was required to pass pushup, sit up, run, obstacle course, weight lift etc.


Well, which one is it, either the PAT test or the Cooper test?


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## ferus fidelitas

OMO , look up your tag in Latin... cool name..  .... I can't compare the Cooper Test to the P A T - didn't even know that it was called "Cooper".. by all accounts the so called Cooper Test was far more difficult... whatever... I know many excellent officers who took the p a t .. being a police officer obviously involves the physical, but many who passed the lesser physical standards avoid battlle with their coolness, life experience, reasonableness and ability to communicate effectively.. composure matters more than how many push up's you can do ... 6 men in a can (oc) covers most physical battles.. How can anyone compare the two standards if they only took and passed 1 of them..?


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## girlcop21

Deuce said:


> Fu**ing can't c*nt no load geek azzhOle!! That's it, typical POG nocom.. What a fu**ing PC pu**y answer, lower the standards.. No street cred, IOD loving, chairborne REMF...
> Well let's see we already have a deaf guy on the job, hey chief how about a blind cop? These tests are definitely biased towards blind people, right? And it's against the law to deny a job based on age. Come on chiefy drop the biased age discrimination so my grandfather can get on the job. Hell he's only 86, he can get over the wall w/ a little help too..
> 
> :up_yours:


First of all, is that language really necessary? Some of us just don't know how to have a mature discussion... grow up.

Secondly, I am a female officer (obviously by my sceen name) who happened to fail the PAT the first time around and then a week later passesthe test and have been a successful police officer for 5 years. I do think that the PAT is biased towards females in some areas solely because there are some elements at which a male would have the advantage based solely upon their physical skills. (ie; upper body strength) I have seen both men and women alike fail the test, but that doesn't mean that because they fail the test that they will be bad police officers. Yes, there are plenty of overweight individuals on all of our departments, but some of them (emphasis on the word some) are also pretty damn good cops too. Just because I failed the test the first time around was certainly not an indication of what type of cop I would have been, or who I am today. My last comment is that I did not see anything in that article that specifically stated that only women would be the ones to use the steps on that wall. If it is the case that men are excluded from using them, I would say that would be offering an advantage to women and that men should also be able to use them. I bet when they start giving this new format, there will be just as many men who use the steps as there are women.

The PAT is just a test for physical ability and it is not a true test of how someone will be on the job. At this point, I can think of a few people that I went to the academy with or have worked with on the street that passed the PAT but have no business being on the job... how do you solve that problem?


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## ferus fidelitas

Girl cop (Lady) is right - I know several female officers who are far more effective than some of their male, bodybuilding, military haircut colleagues... The job is about good judgement and common sense ....oc nullifies 99% of a punk's resistance... that's been my experience.. if they are obtuse... simply spray them, nail them and cuff them.. works most of the time 'til help arrives.... Being composed and reasonable avoids 80-90% of physical battles anyways.. if you want respect... show it


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## extremesgs

Keep in mind that any physical "test" is one of a battery of testing that is done to ensure the candidate can pass the generic standards that have been set.

Plenty of people can kick ass on a PAT and suck on the job, while others may suck at the PAT and be great at the job.

I think we'd all agree that any test (physical or otherwise) needs to be based on specific function (similar to the MA PAT) or standards derived from presumption of what some call "fitness" (i.e. Cooper standards). Whatever the case, testing of all kinds needs to be the same for all who are going through the process. Set a standard. They pass or fail, or its scored. If climbing over a wall is biased against shorter candidates, then look at the practical application of it- will they have a need to climb a 5, 7, or 10 foot wall on the street? I've never had to. How bout a fence instead? Been there, done that, right? Might be a good one to add. Lets look at MSP- getting over a "jersey barrier" as part of a test. Are you likely to have to get over one of those? You betcha (for SP anyway). Practical application. Pulling the trigger of a gun? If you can't do that when you get to the range, they'll make it so you can. As for being part of a test, it seems silly.

Someone needs to come up with standards based on Tasks, and every candidate should be able to either pass or fail, based on a single pass or fail standard. Not age categories, not sex categories, not fat and skinny categories. That's not to say any standards should be lowered, but pick things that any officer may have to do on any day. A dummy drag is a good instance of this; the average male supposedly weights 180 lbs. Statistically, more cops are male than female. If an officer gets injured (more likley male based on statistics), someone _may_ need to drag them to a safe area. Things like that...


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## MM1799

girlcop21 said:


> Secondly, I am a female officer (obviously by my sceen name) who happened to fail the PAT the first time around *and then a week later passes the test* and have been a successful police officer for 5 years.


Exactly, you failed and worked harder (or whatever you did) and came back and passed. You didn't need some step ladder to help you. You are a prime example of my point; many, many females have passed and went on to become great cops _without_ the step.



girlcop21 said:


> I do think that the PAT is biased towards females in some areas solely because there are some elements at which a male would have the advantage based solely upon their physical skills. (ie; upper body strength)


I agree, to some extent. But like many others have said in different threads.. *Not everyone is cut out to be a police officer.* If you cant cut it, go be an accountant. I cant hit a 100mph fastball if my life depended on it; so I didn't try to be in the MLB. I'll be more realistic, when I was young I used to dream of being a pilot. Well my vision wasn't perfect and I am over 6'... _it aint going to _happen and I accepted that and chose a different career path. While everyone grows up wishing to be something.. not everything is meant to be. *It's a fact of life.*



girlcop21 said:


> The PAT is just a test for physical ability and it is not a true test of how someone will be on the job. At this point, I can think of a few people that I went to the academy with or have worked with on the street that passed the PAT but have no business being on the job... how do you solve that problem?


I honestly believe it works one way: people who pass the PAT and are fat bodies on the job. I dont think it works the other way. Anyone can work hard to pass a test and stay in shape for 6 months and then let themselves 'go' for the rest of their careers; that's easy. If you cant get over a wall in PAT.. how can you sit there and tell me I can count on you to be my backup if I chase a suspect over a wall over 4'? "The PAT.. test.. physical ability" While a lot of being a PO requires intelligence and logic.. if you work the road then physical ability is a BIG part. This isn't a desk job (for most) nor is it a non-stress minimal-excersize job.. I dont stay in shape just because I dont want to look like a fat slob.. I stay in shape so I can perform my duties on the road effectively.


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## 94c

When I came on you used to be able to have to know how to swim.

And guess what? People who wanted the job learned how to swim...


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## ArchAngel2

this is sad, very, very, sad. The next thing you know they will have three different test
1) Males only
2) FEMALES only
3) FAT, LAZY, OUT OF SHAPE COPS WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT THEMSELVES OR THEIR PARTNERS WHAT A JOKE :jestera:


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## DVET1979

Someone here asked about forced PAT retesting once you are on the job. The rule is that you are *SUBJECT* to be retested every year, however it does cost alot of time and money to restest personell. You know they arent going to only retest for one person or even one department. All depts' will have to pay overtime for the employees to show up and retest. Theoretically, if you failed a PAT retest, they have to give you 6 months to train and get back into shape. If you fail again, I believe they even give you another shot. Since the retest law was put into effect, no department, police or fire, has retested veteran officers/firefighters to the best of anyone's knowledge that I have talked too.


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## Deuce

girlcop21 said:


> First of all, is that language really necessary? Some of us just don't know how to have a mature discussion... grow up.
> 
> Secondly, I am a female officer (obviously by my sceen name) who happened to fail the PAT the first time around and then a week later passesthe test and have been a successful police officer for 5 years. I do think that the PAT is biased towards females in some areas solely because there are some elements at which a male would have the advantage based solely upon their physical skills. (ie; upper body strength) I have seen both men and women alike fail the test, but that doesn't mean that because they fail the test that they will be bad police officers. Yes, there are plenty of overweight individuals on all of our departments, but some of them (emphasis on the word some) are also pretty damn good cops too. Just because I failed the test the first time around was certainly not an indication of what type of cop I would have been, or who I am today. My last comment is that I did not see anything in that article that specifically stated that only women would be the ones to use the steps on that wall. If it is the case that men are excluded from using them, I would say that would be offering an advantage to women and that men should also be able to use them. I bet when they start giving this new format, there will be just as many men who use the steps as there are women.
> 
> The PAT is just a test for physical ability and it is not a true test of how someone will be on the job. At this point, I can think of a few people that I went to the academy with or have worked with on the street that passed the PAT but have no business being on the job... how do you solve that problem?


Holy shit I'm so fucking sorry about my potty mouth.. Mae culpa..

I'm sure you are a successful DARE officer(SRO??), good job kicking ass. And don't fret, those of us that realize this job is cerebral *and* physical (the PAT there for a reason,not just a biased/inappropriate test) will continue chasing,fighting and arresting the bad guys...

No man worth his salt will use those assists...


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## 209

Just took the PAT today at hudson. The "step" is not a step. The wall now has two (maybe 3 I can't remember) 1"x3" boards screwed horizontially onto the wall. EVERYONE can use these as a footing to get over the wall.

Needless to say everyone got over the wall.


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## Guest

hahahahahahahaaa


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## girlcop21

Deuce said:


> Holy shit I'm so fucking sorry about my potty mouth.. Mae culpa..
> 
> I'm sure you are a successful DARE officer(SRO??), good job kicking ass. And don't fret, those of us that realize this job is cerebral *and* physical (the PAT there for a reason,not just a biased/inappropriate test) will continue chasing,fighting and arresting the bad guys...
> 
> No man worth his salt will use those assists...


Don't know why I waste my time responding to people like you... I am actually NOT a DARE or a SRO, I am a full time police officer working on the streets. And so what if I was an SRO? Does that make me any less of a cop? KMA!

:up_yours:


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## Mongo

Are u shitting me.

Simple physical abilities test that someone can't pass then you have no buisness being on the job.

There is no test that could ever be given that would* perfectly* simulate a fight for your lif*e.*

Good luck if you can't pass the PAT for entry or you can't currently pass it.

Keep fooling yourself with the attitude of saying it is just a stupid test.

It does'nt come close to exerting yourself during the real thing.

You may never get in the shit in your entire career for a physical confrontation depending on where you work, but if you do you should hope you are in shape enough to survive.

If you can't pass the PAT I doubt that you are.


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## ferus fidelitas

it should go back to the old standards - plenty of motivated females got in sufficient condition to pass it.. I think the physical part takes a back seat to the motivation, dedication and heart... many women passed the test and the academy which was much more challenging back in the day ... the dumbing down of police standards -


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## Deuce

girlcop21 said:


> Don't know why I waste my time responding to people like you... I am actually NOT a DARE or a SRO, I am a full time police officer working on the streets. And so what if I was an SRO? Does that make me any less of a cop? KMA!
> 
> :up_yours:


Is that language necessary??

Why do you? Why are you getting so worked up and why do you care what I say? 

And yes, it does...


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## lawdog671

Do female officers do anything different, well, does the JOB description change from male to female? Guys.. youre responsible for ABC on patrol and ladies XYZ?? Hardly. Nobody is asking you to bench press a tractor trailer like some of the guys on this job can do. You're being asked to lift YOUR OWN BODY WEIGHT over a friggin wall. WTF!!?!? If im rolling around on the ground with some muff, WHICH I HAVE, waiting for back up, I want them to have the ability to get over the wall to me. GET TO ME!! Or get another job. Don't get me or someone else hurt because you always dreamed of being a cop but can't do the job. I can assure you that Joe Dirt isn't going to take it easy on you. 
*The PAT is just a test for physical ability and it is not a true test of how someone will be on the **job**. At this point, I can think of a few people that I went to the academy with or have worked with on the street that passed the PAT but have no **business** being on the job*
Spoken like someone who has failed the test...God forbid you train up to established measured standards ....change the system for me. I'm pretty sure you know whats coming up, becuase Civil Service gives you the program, and a diet/pt suggestion booklet last I knew. NOT a big secret conspiracy to prevent women from being cops. As a matter of fact I work with a lot of qualified women who I am proud to serve with, who passed the test. I don't hear anyone crying for the fat, uninitiated guys who don't pass the test. You want fair, change the standards for them too. HELL you wanna be a cop, heres the badge gun and cruiser. You don't need to earn it, or prove your proficiency anymore. 
Oh and those tests also measure more than just how fast you get around the track..Do you have the desire to train to fight?..When it's cold,wet, not convinient for you are you gonna be the person who quits? Are you willing to train for your health and physical fitness, or are you going to take a medical retirement for bad heart, bad knees or whatever other excuse you use to get out. I think that the overweight great cops that you reference, on the mean streets of the university you work at, are an incredible EXCEPTION, and not a rule. How many foot pusuits have they had...or how many have they lost because they had no physical ability to pursue. How well you going to be able to fight to cuff someone who just ran on you, and youre still sucking wind. Scumbags know this the second they encounter you. Or youre the person that gets on the radio and lets someone else catch your perp?? And yeah I can backup everything I say with personal experience as a trainer before anyone slams me as anti female. I want universal standards. Toe the line or sell me my coffee.
*THERE IS NO ROOM FOR CHIVALRY WHEN IT COMES TO SELECTION, TRAINING OF, AND ACTUAL POLICE WORK. LIVES DEPEND ON IT, WHETHER IT BE OTHER COPS OR WORSE MY FAMILY*. No offense intended but this really pisses me off.


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## Mongo

Well said Lawdog.


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## Mitpo62

No matter what the circumstances, *the squeaky wheel will always get the grease.....*


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## Vader

Well spoken, Lawdog...

If you have an interest in LE, whether you are a male or female, and you show up to take a PAT and fail...my opinion, you are probably not taking it serious enough and you should probably find another occupation. There is plenty of notice that you will be required to take a test and perform X,Y and Z. Of course you are going to fail when you start training 2 days before you show up. And the fact that you aren't ready now, is an precursor that if you do get hired, and the "bell" does go off, you WON'T be ready then. 

I also agree that the PAT is not an indicator of what type of police officer you are going to be. I know overweight guys and girls that are awesome cops. I also know guys and girls that look like machines and are afraid of their own shadows.


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## Tango

Lawdog, perfectly put....can we end this thread now??


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## kelley1138

I have waited too long to comment on *THIS* issue. For the record, I am *NOT* a Police Officer, however, I am the wife of one so let me give all of you a *DIFFERENT* point of view on this subject.

I have always been a believer of the fact that there are certain jobs a woman *CAN* do that a man *CANNOT *and vice versa. Although there are a great many female police officers, as well as military and firefighters, it greatly disturbs me that certain factors can alter what should be equal testing. If you cannot climb a wall then you fail *PERIOD*. Altering the wall does *NOT* change real life situations, just that particular test. Rather than cry about it (_like a girl would_) and force changes that disrupt the course of future trainees, accept that you did your best and move on-maybe being a police officer is *NOT* in the cards for you.

In *MY *opinion the day I find out that I have passed the initial exam to begin my journey to become a police officer I would start training immediately, as much as possible. Do you think that Olympic Medalists just train the week before and win? *NO*-they are constantly training to make themselves the best they can be.

The physical tests are *NO* surprise and therefore you should be prepared for them. If you cannot lift your own body weight over a 5 foot wall (_assuming you are at least 5 feet tall_) then maybe you should fix *YOURSELF*. In reality you will *NOT* run into a wall that has footholds, or something to grab onto-you may face a rusty barb-wired fence, a rickety wooden fence, a flat concrete wall, a crumbling wall etc. with God-knows-what waiting for you on the other side. Are you prepared for that????? I will tell you what I am *NOT* prepared for: I am not prepared for the knock on my door of police officers telling me that my husband was killed because he was part of a foot pursuit and his backup, a female cop, was unable to help him because she could not lift herself over whatever obstacle was in her way. Timing=life or death in this profession and there is no pretty way to say that. You females looking for *MORE* points in your favor (_since you already have the fact that you *ARE* a female in your favor for beginning with more points than the average male_) need to get off your high horses, stop thinking about yourselves and start realizing that *YOUR* weaknesses may be the cause of another police officers demise. Are you ready to live with that?. 
*FOOD FOR THOUGHT:* Would you feel comfortable if the tables were turned and *YOUR* backup was an overweight, 15 year veteran who cannot walk from the station to his cruiser without having to catch his breath???? Oh you would be the *FIRST* to complain.

I understand the strong desire to be a part of something great. Being a police officer is mentally, emotionally and physically challenging-I see it every day with my husband. It takes a certain person to handle being a police officer and there are many, many factors involved that a person needs to at least consider or mentally touch upon. Questions needs to be asked: Can I live with the consequences of my actions? Am I prepared to take the life of another if I am faced with that situation? Do I trust my fellow officers? Am I being the best police officer that I know I can be? Am I mentally and physically up to the challenge of this career? Answer *NO *to any of those questions and I think you need to re-think your career choice!!!

That is all I have to say about that...for now...........


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## BrickCop

The gender issue aside this subject reminds me of something I once heard in a similar debate. It has to do with firefighters but it applies here...

You are trapped on the second floor of your burning house and have become overwhelmed by smoke inhalation. 

Do you want the firefighter who is able to carry you down the stairs and out to safety.

OR

The firefighter who drags you by the ankles down the stairs as your head bounces off each step on the way down.


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## LKat20

Is it just me...or is the same thing being said over and over and over and over again? Every person that comes on here thinks that they have the end-all comment...and every single person keeps saying the same thing... Good. God.


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## lawdog671

LKat...I don't think everyone has any end all answer for the thread but you have to honestly ask yourself, if SO many people have the same opinion, are working in the field or has personal knowledge of the job (WELL SAID KELLEY), then maybe this is a big issue. attitudes like that are the reason these people can get standards changed in the frst place. I don't know who are cops here and who aren't anymore so Ill say this. I AM A COP, MY JOB IS NOT A JOKE TO ME, AND I TRAIN HARD IN THE GYM/THE RANGE/THE CLASSROOM BECAUSE THIS IS A *LIFE AND DEATH PROFESSION. *I really don't care if you always dreamed about being one. TRY EARNING IT!!! I don't do this for the pretty uniform or cool cars. If you want a cool uniform, volunteer as a firefighter somewhere ten do eveyone a favor (firefighters included) and don't showup. EVER. Because I don't want you as a cop. 
Whatever happened to the surgeoun general prowling the decks in Framingham sending people home cuz you weren't 6ft tall??..lol 
Ill try to not say anything else on this thread not matter how pissed you people make me....GOOSEFABAH....


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## Guest

kelley1138 said:


> In *MY *opinion the day I find out that I have passed the initial exam to begin my journey to become a police officer I would start training immediately, as much as possible. Do you think that Olympic Medalists just train the week before and win? *NO*-they are constantly training to make themselves the best they can be.
> 
> The physical tests are *NO* surprise and therefore you should be prepared for them. If you cannot lift your own body weight over a 5 foot wall (_assuming you are at least 5 feet tall_) then maybe you should fix *YOURSELF*. In reality you will *NOT* run into a wall that has footholds, or something to grab onto-you may face a rusty barb-wired fence, a rickety wooden fence, a flat concrete wall, a crumbling wall etc. with God-knows-what waiting for you on the other side. Are you prepared for that????? I will tell you what I am *NOT* prepared for: I am not prepared for the knock on my door of police officers telling me that my husband was killed because he was part of a foot pursuit and his backup, a female cop, was unable to help him because she could not lift herself over whatever obstacle was in her way. Timing=life or death in this profession and there is no pretty way to say that. You females looking for *MORE* points in your favor (_since you already have the fact that you *ARE* a female in your favor for beginning with more points than the average male_) need to get off your high horses, stop thinking about yourselves and start realizing that *YOUR* weaknesses may be the cause of another police officers demise. Are you ready to live with that?.
> *FOOD FOR THOUGHT:* Would you feel comfortable if the tables were turned and *YOUR* backup was an overweight, 15 year veteran who cannot walk from the station to his cruiser without having to catch his breath???? Oh you would be the *FIRST* to complain.
> 
> I understand the strong desire to be a part of something great. Being a police officer is mentally, emotionally and physically challenging-I see it every day with my husband. It takes a certain person to handle being a police officer and there are many, many factors involved that a person needs to at least consider or mentally touch upon.
> 
> 
> 
> Kelley,
> You might think that your husband is training at the gym everynight, but really he is just doing me...Don't worry...I help him mentally, emotionally and physically.
Click to expand...


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## The Mentor

This is to all the girls that could have climbed the wall the way it was, and now have to be put down because this was the year the they added steps...

:rose::baby13:


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