# Is this speeding ticket appealable?



## Guest (May 3, 2009)

The other day I was driving to my Grandparents house on back roads and by my luck, there's a cop doing radar on the side of the road. The speed limit was 40 and supposedly I was going 54. On the ticket it has: posted, radar and estimated checked off. This is my first ticket, and I have no offenses on me for anything. I've been driving for roughly 3 years now and I want to know if I should try to fight it instead of getting points and paying higher insurance.

I think because it has estimated checked off, I might be able to appeal it and win??


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

No, the *posted* limit was 40, when the officer saw you he *estimated* your speed to be over the limit, then he used *RADAR* to confirm his estimation. Even if the officer made an error, say in the spelling of your name or street, the courts have held that it is a simple "scribner's error" and even that will not get you out of your obligation.


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## sdb29 (Jul 17, 2002)

But by all means appeal, and if found responsible by the Magistrate, ask for a Judge's hearing.


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Yes, APPEAL twice please and most importantly was the officer wearing his hat? Mass law says an officer gets his authority from his hat badge so if he wasnt wearing his hat you can beat the ticket, though that usually only works on the SECOND appeal. Im not sure of the MGL on it but Im sure one of the others on here can furnish it to be helpful.
There are many helpful sites on the internet on how to beat a speeding ticket.Please let us know how you made out. So many come on here and ask for help but never share with us the fruits of our advice.


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## Mikey682 (May 2, 2002)

Sounds like you got screwed...take it to a Judge's Appeal.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

In all seriousness, appeal, appeal, appeal. 

Even if you think you didn't do anything wrong, you have nothing to lose by appealing, and if you don't you're stuck with the fine AND three years of bad driving credits.

But above all else, the judges appeal is the most important, so make sure if you lose at first, you appeal again.


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## Mad-Dog24 (May 31, 2008)

when you were given the ticket, you should have told the copper that you were going to appeal it; You then should have asked him to look in his calendar book so he could give you dates in the future when he was available to give you the best testimony possible about the traffic stop in the nearest court of jurisdiction.


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## Guest (May 3, 2009)

1) Appeal if you think you are not in the wrong. Actually do it no matter what, as others have said, you have NOTHING to lose.
2) Dont dress like a shitbag.
3) Dont talk like a shithead. Be polite and respectful.
4) Dont be so addamant that the officer was incorrect.
5) When and IF found responsible at the magistrates appeal, BE SURE to pay the small fee and ask for a Judge's appeal where the officer will have to show up and explain to you AND THE COURT why he checked off so many boxes and what he believes you did wrong.
6) Pay close attention to 5 above. It is the most important one.


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## CJIS (Mar 12, 2005)

Appeals are great


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## lofu (Feb 25, 2006)

I can't believe everyone missed the obvious question here. Did the officer let you sign the ticket? If not you might have him there.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

lofu said:


> I can't believe everyone missed the obvious question here. Did the officer let you sign the ticket? If not you might have him there.


I never have anyone sign the ticket unless it's an agent. Fuck that, officer safety first.


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## lofu (Feb 25, 2006)

Sarcasm


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## Guest (May 3, 2009)

Johnny Law said:


> I never have anyone sign the ticket unless it's an agent. Fuck that, officer safety first.


violator...... passenger........agent........ lawyer......... doctor....... soccer mom....:alcoholi:.. drunk....:alcoholi:... junior operators........ judges......#-o. NOBODY gets my writing instrument.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

lofu said:


> Sarcasm


"Ahhhhh, I see" said the blind man. Sorry.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Johnny Law said:


> I never have anyone sign the ticket unless it's an agent. Fuck that, officer safety first.


You know, I've heard that argument before numerous times--but I've never had a problem, nor have I ever heard of one in the dozens of states that mandate motorists sign the citation or summons.

I do it for every money citation, and on the ones I want to stick--usuaully an uncooperative motorist--I make sure they print their name after the signature as well. If they take my pen and throw it into busy traffic and jeapordizing my safety and that of others, they just bought themselves a disorderly arrest.

And say I'm not quite sure of the identity of the motorist, you can always have them sign something else to compare the signatures. Remember failure to do so is good under 90/25.

Having them sign the cite can be a good tool if you use it correctly and can properly articulate all that you do.

Thanks to Foxy, my bad on the signature under 90/25. To clarify...for ID purposes only. I was thinking of an impossible hypothetical. My bad.


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## Guest (May 3, 2009)

Is the hat thing really true??.. I don't know whether you guys are joking about it or not haha... Because he really wasn't wearing his hat.. His hair was gelled and short, a young cop.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

This may be a conflict of interest and dont want to give away too many secrets. I took the test last weekend, so I should be hired sometime in 2025.

First, I have sucessfully won MANY appeals in traffic court. I have never once been asked to sign a citation, and have never brought that up at a hearing.
-ALWAYS APPEAL even if you are 100%wrong, a fighting chance is better than no chance at all. True story, I was cited at age 18 in 1999 in Burlington for going 60 in a marked 10..which turned out to be an unposted 40 (Network Drive for the locals) I actually told the officer I was late for a movie...I now know that goes right on the back of the ticket. The day of my appeal, I woke up an hour late. I called the magistrate of Woburn court and told them I was running late. Got there, and the PD Rep was visibly pissed, I was positive I wouldnt have a shot in hell. As I open my mouth to tell my side of the story, his pager goes off. He had an emergency and left, the magistrate found me not responsible...ticket dismissed. I had no arguement, no excuse, I diddnt even know what I planned to say. I diddnt have to say a word. ALWAYS APPEAL. I appeal a ticket even when I KNOW I am in the wrong, not because I feel the ticket is invalid, but because I think the insurance system in this state is flawed and unfair. I would pay the fine 5times over than get stuck with a surcharge (dont offer to pay in cash at the time of the citation). Even if you ARE found responsible at a hearing, your fine will usually be cut at least in half, even tho you will STILL be hit with a surcharge that can total thousands.

-Dress appropriately! Shirt and tie at minimum, its court its not a respect issue, but everyother ass will be in sweatpants you might as well stand out in a good way. I just had jury duty and was the ONLY person in a suit. One guy had a tank top on....and that was CONCORD! Try Lynn..showed up in a suit and I got waved thru the metal detector and asked for my bar card.

- I bring folders and folders of papers...usually all nonsense. Court people see a lot of paperwork and suddnely start looking at the clock. Photos of street signs, even if they have nothing to do with your case...just let them peek out of your folder.

-Have at least some kind of arguement. Be prepared to confidently and concisely defend why you think you should not be at fault. Be prepared to lose. Be polite, and spend the $20 bucks to appeal to a judge. The officer has to show up for this one, and Ive run 50/50 on that. But they dont always show = not responsible.

-Learn from your mistakes; traffic school, fines, and high insurance sucks.

-ALWAYS APPEAL

-If you really want to be a dick, send subpoeas the the PD for radar certifications, calibrations, model no's etc..but to be honest, I havent had the balls to pull that one yet. Maybe if I was in danger of losing my "privilege" to drive a MV...but Id leave that to a lawyer.

-And on that point It is CONSTANTLY pounded into our heads that driving in MA is a "privilege" not a right. Its even in the handbook. So when I got my licence suspended at 20 I got a letter in the mail stating that my "right to operate a MV in MA had been revoked" Damn right I brought that up at the hearing. Funny story, even tho this post is getting long winded.....
At 1 month shy of age 21, I got a fake revoked by a bouncer in Boston. 6 months later, while I am happily over the legal drinking age, I get a letter informing me that my licence is being suspended for Fake ID. I appeal....Im 21..SURELY that couldnt be me. I lose, so I appeal to a registry panel. I scrutinized the form and realized it was filled out and signed by 2 different people. I figure Ive got a great arguement to get it dismissed. I sit in a little room with 5 registry members and 15 dirtbag OUI cases looking for cinderella licenses. One guy gets up to argue his case, they cut him short because he is DRUNK. Drunk trying to argue about getting his license back for OUI. They call my name next. This lady takes off her glasses and sighs and said people have been lying to us all day, what do you have to say? I took a deep breath....and told the truth. It was my ID, it was a stupid mistake, and Im very sorry. They mull it over and decide to reduce the suspension to 3 months, which it already had been...I walked out time served. As Im about to leave, one guy looks over the paperwork and announces "this was filled out improperly" and lets me know that would have invalidated the whole case. I felt good about being honest, but at the same time...if I stuck to my guns I would have gotten the whole case dismissed. Oh well, lesson learned.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Hush said:


> This may be a conflict of interest and dont want to give away too many secrets. I took the test last weekend, so I should be hired sometime in 2025.
> 
> First, I have sucessfully won MANY appeals in traffic court. I have never once been asked to sign a citation, and have never brought that up at a hearing.
> -ALWAYS APPEAL even if you are 100%wrong, a fighting chance is better than no chance at all. True story, I was cited at age 18 in 1999 in Burlington for going 60 in a marked 10..which turned out to be an unposted 40 (Network Drive for the locals) I actually told the officer I was late for a movie...I now know that goes right on the back of the ticket. The day of my appeal, I woke up an hour late. I called the magistrate of Woburn court and told them I was running late. Got there, and the PD Rep was visibly pissed, I was positive I wouldnt have a shot in hell. As I open my mouth to tell my side of the story, his pager goes off. He had an emergency and left, the magistrate found me not responsible...ticket dismissed. I had no arguement, no excuse, I diddnt even know what I planned to say. I diddnt have to say a word. ALWAYS APPEAL. I appeal a ticket even when I KNOW I am in the wrong, not because I feel the ticket is invalid, but because I think the insurance system in this state is flawed and unfair. I would pay the fine 5times over than get stuck with a surcharge (dont offer to pay in cash at the time of the citation). Even if you ARE found responsible at a hearing, your fine will usually be cut at least in half, even tho you will STILL be hit with a surcharge that can total thousands.
> ...


Green...err...gold, pure gold.

Thanks, Hush!! Nice assist...

And remember, not all "rights" are absolute. You can loose them by committing crimes or if society deems your exercising of that right a risk to the rest of society.

Take for example another "right" such as in "any way to which the public has a right of access as invitees or licencees"; that would include say a Wal Mart parking lot. If you shoplift and Wal-Mart trespasses you, and you are no longer an invitee and have no right to operate there any more. Take also the right to vote with convicted felons while incarcerated.

Likewise, convicted felons or someone who is obviously mentally unstable would not be granted a LTC and the right to exercise his/her 2nd AMD rights. Arguably one could consider that an "infringement", but I've never seen anywhere in MGL's or the Mass Declaration of Rights that "one's right to operate a motor vehicle shall not be infringed".


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## Maj. Dick (Dec 21, 2005)

sdb29 said:


> But by all means appeal, and if found responsible by the Magistrate, ask for a Judge's hearing.


And if the Judge finds you responsible ask him if you can appeal his decision, they really like that!! I had a few speeding tickets before I was a cop actually all were before I was 20, Muscle cars. I never appealed any of them, even back then I figured if the cop said I was speeding I was speeding. I now realize I was wise beyond my years. Though now I think everybody should appeal my tickets. Court time=$$$$$$$


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## tomahawk (May 1, 2002)

dirtbike, definitely appeal. The magistrate hearing is your first shot. If you don't like those results, you are afforded the opportunity for a Judge's hearing. Don't let that opportunity slip away. Appeal, appeal, appeal!

Just follow the instructions on the back of the ticket. Don't waste time, request a hearing now. The time limit is not a joke, the RMV would love to take your reinstatement fee after they suspend you for payment default because you didn't mail the ticket in time.

Appeal, appeal, appeal!


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## lawdog671 (Sep 20, 2005)

Hush said:


> This may be a conflict of interest and dont want to give away too many secrets. I took the test last weekend, so I should be hired sometime in 2025.
> 
> First, I have sucessfully won MANY appeals in traffic court. I have never once been asked to sign a citation, and have never brought that up at a hearing.
> -ALWAYS APPEAL even if you are 100%wrong, a fighting chance is better than no chance at all. True story, I was cited at age 18 in 1999 in Burlington for going 60 in a marked 10..which turned out to be an unposted 40 (Network Drive for the locals) I actually told the officer I was late for a movie...I now know that goes right on the back of the ticket. The day of my appeal, I woke up an hour late. I called the magistrate of Woburn court and told them I was running late. Got there, and the PD Rep was visibly pissed, I was positive I wouldnt have a shot in hell. As I open my mouth to tell my side of the story, his pager goes off. He had an emergency and left, the magistrate found me not responsible...ticket dismissed. I had no arguement, no excuse, I diddnt even know what I planned to say. I diddnt have to say a word. ALWAYS APPEAL. I appeal a ticket even when I KNOW I am in the wrong, not because I feel the ticket is invalid, but because I think the insurance system in this state is flawed and unfair. I would pay the fine 5times over than get stuck with a surcharge (dont offer to pay in cash at the time of the citation). Even if you ARE found responsible at a hearing, your fine will usually be cut at least in half, even tho you will STILL be hit with a surcharge that can total thousands.
> ...


Good luck with the test...hopefully this post doesn't surface during your interview about your ability to operate your car within the scope of Massachusetts laws...I'm sure your background investigator will be happy to see the remorse...


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## kttref (Oct 5, 2004)

Def. appeal....should have made sure you told the cop too - we love when you waste our days off....er I mean, fight for what you think is right....yeah that's it.

If someone doesn't sign an infraction down here we have to write a backer as to why the person was rude....otherwise (at least in my pd) I have to explain to my LT why someone didn't sign (give me a break)...on PTA's they have to sign or it becomes custodial....so my pen leaves my pocket all the time..



Hush said:


> This may be a conflict of interest and dont want to give away too many secrets. I took the test last weekend, so I should be hired sometime in 2025.
> 
> First, I have sucessfully won MANY appeals in traffic court. I have never once been asked to sign a citation, and have never brought that up at a hearing.
> -ALWAYS APPEAL even if you are 100%wrong, a fighting chance is better than no chance at all. True story, I was cited at age 18 in 1999 in Burlington for going 60 in a marked 10..which turned out to be an unposted 40 (Network Drive for the locals) I actually told the officer I was late for a movie...I now know that goes right on the back of the ticket. The day of my appeal, I woke up an hour late. I called the magistrate of Woburn court and told them I was running late. Got there, and the PD Rep was visibly pissed, I was positive I wouldnt have a shot in hell. As I open my mouth to tell my side of the story, his pager goes off. He had an emergency and left, the magistrate found me not responsible...ticket dismissed. I had no arguement, no excuse, I diddnt even know what I planned to say. I diddnt have to say a word. ALWAYS APPEAL. I appeal a ticket even when I KNOW I am in the wrong, not because I feel the ticket is invalid, but because I think the insurance system in this state is flawed and unfair. I would pay the fine 5times over than get stuck with a surcharge (dont offer to pay in cash at the time of the citation). Even if you ARE found responsible at a hearing, your fine will usually be cut at least in half, even tho you will STILL be hit with a surcharge that can total thousands.
> ...


BTW...I really hope you didn't do well on the test. No offense.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

kttref said:


> BTW...I really hope you didn't do well on the test. No offense.


None taken Kate, your post made me laugh out loud.


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## Hush (Feb 1, 2009)

lawdog671 said:


> Good luck with the test...hopefully this post doesn't surface during your interview about your ability to operate your car within the scope of Massachusetts laws...I'm sure your background investigator will be happy to see the remorse...


Thank you, and I hope it doesnt either. Any ideas what to expect when that time comes? And maybe it wouldn't hurt to start writing "fiction" or be even smarter and just not write all together...


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## LongKnife56 (Sep 9, 2008)

The "Ask a Cop" sub-forum should really be moved to a sub-forum under "Shooting the Breeze." Y'all have so much fun with it.

It is difficult to know a poster's true thoughts.

I have never had to appeal so I don't know what are actually the rules under an appeal. Does the actual officer have to show up? Or can it just be a police representative?

If the actual arresting officer has to show, do you guys prefer attending the appeal versus being out on your beat - is that why you are recommending appeals?

A long time ago, I was once stopped in Maine for going the permanent PSL on a divided highway but exceeding the special lower construction site speed. (It was a Sunday afternoon and I had just gone by and knew no one was working and was coming back.) Rather than just mailing my money in, I showed for the hearing. In Maine they don't use magistrates. I met with the DA before the hearing and offered to pay court costs if my case was continued without a finding and dropped after a time if no future incidents. Anyway they called the actual arresting officer on the radio and he drove over and he made a case for me by saying there was a lot of confusion about the the signage. Anyway, it was dismissed.


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## 263FPD (Oct 29, 2004)

ESTIMATED is ALWAYS checked off.

Please Appeal!!! The officer and his family will thank you for the overtime. I know I would. Appeal Early Appleal Often.


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## LGriffin (Apr 2, 2009)

With a name like dirtbikerider, your credibility is lacking right from the start, so drop the "*supposedly* I was going 54" if you want any respect here. 
In any event, we love it when you appeal, as we are happy to meet with you as often as you like. Those of us still writing tickets on back roads aren't interested in having days off anyway.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

263FPD said:


> The officer and his family will thank you for the overtime.












Great, now he might not appeal. If you hadn't noticed, we were playing a game of subtlety.


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## Guest (May 5, 2009)

LGriffin said:


> With a name like dirtbikerider, your credibility is lacking right from the start, so drop the "*supposedly* I was going 54" if you want any respect here.
> In any event, we love it when you appeal, as we are happy to meet with you as often as you like. Those of us still writing tickets on back roads aren't interested in having days off anyway.


What does it matter what my user name is? If I put it as George Bush or Obama would you give me all the respect in the world? Kinda pathetic you judge me by a name.


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Enough from this asshole, he is gone and the thread is closed


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