# Question About Motorcycle Speeding Ticket



## Guest (Jan 24, 2009)

I was pulled over for allegedly doing 86 in a 65 mph zone on the Mass Pike. I say allegedly not to insult the Trooper in any way, but because I am honestly baffled at how that possibly could have been accurate.

By way of background, I have been driving for 23 years and have been licensed as a motorcycle rider for less than a year (took the MSF course in late March of 2008). I have a completely clean driving record not because I have been "lucky" but because I don't feel comfortable operating a vehicle in a reckless manner and I cannot affort the ancillary costs of a ticket.

The specifics of this incident involved my being in the left hand lane on a motorcycle after passing through a major interchange area - for starters, I do not enjoy being on the highway on a motorcycle at all and did so this past summer and early fall due to the very high gas prices and a 100 mile roundtrip commute. But if I am forced to use the "superslab" I place myself in the left hand lane when possible and especially at merge areas so as to only have to watch one side for encroaching vehicles. I think it is also important to note that my bike has next to no wind protection so high speeds cause a tremendous amount of buffeting hitting my shoulders and head - not pleasant at all. 

Generally I am also commuting during "off" hours (into Boston by 7 AM and leaving the city by 4 PM) so don't usually have to face the challenge of rush hour traffic although even at those hours it is often busy so I never gained a good comfort level. I would not have even been in this area at this time but that morning I had a near-heart stopping experience of a rear flat while travelling at 65 MPH and managed to at least get safely to the side of the road but letting the clutch out suddenly in first gear as I was coasting to a stop threw me head first into the guardrail. Distressingly, no one stopped to even see if I was okay and it took almost an hour for the safety service truck to arrive and another hour for the tow truck to arrive. So I was already even more shaken than usual.

As I passed through the interchange I spotted the Trooper on the side of the road and instinctively let off the throttle (I think that automatically slowing down is a reflex among some of us civilians no matter what the circumstances!). He waved me over, I nodded my recognition, and I made sure I could safely merge through the middle and right lanes and pulled over. He never had to pull out but just pulled up behind me in the breakdown lane. I was polite and was honest in my answer that no, I did not know how fast I was going. He turned around to walk back to the cruiser with my information and said over his shouler "you were going 86". 

I was astonished because that would be an incredibly uncomfortable speed given my driving habits, what had happened earlier in the day, and the wind buffeting that I experience on my motorcycle. I was travelling with the speed of some of the traffic around me (there were other vehicles passing me - yes, I know, I probably shouldn't have been in the left hand lane in that case but it was the safest vantage point especially at a busy interchange with vehicles merging) and can't say I wasn't speeding because I believe I was probably going between 65-70 mph.

At the clerk magistrate hearing I made no progress and have opted for a trial. The notes from the Trooper state that he visually felt I was speeding and when I was in the middle lane hit me with Lidar and clocked 86 mph. My consternation is the fact that aside from the fact that I just don't ride or drive that fast is that he had already waved me over while I was still in the left hand lane and I was able to cross two lanes of traffic and get into the breakdown lane without him having to pull his cruiser out onto the highway. I just don't see that being possible that I was clocked in the middle lane at 86 mph when I was already slowing down (and I can assure you I was most defnitely not going so fast that this would be a lesser speed!) and could come to a safe stop within I would estimate 20 yards or so of where he was when I initially spotted him.

Can anyone offer me any advice on what to expect with my trial appearance? I'm terrified about not only the process but what will happen if I am left with this ticket on my (to date) clean record with insurance repercussions on top of the $200+ fine. 

Thank you in advance for any feedback, and to the LEOs on the board (I know this sounds like sucking up but it is a true sentiment) thank you for what you do and despite my inquiry here you are very much appreciated.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

Thanks for a well thought out and intelligent question. Why don't you simply state to the judge what you've told us all here? "I don't feel I was travelling that fast because": and go into your reasons why. Keep it brief and succinct. 

I have to be honest with you though, LIDAR is hard to beat. At 1000' feet down the road, it's beam spread is just 3' wide. They use a variation of LIDAR to help dock the Space Shuttle, it will also give you target footage as well as speed on the readout.


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## Tuna (Jun 1, 2006)

What JL said and relax you don't have to sign over your first born at the judges level.


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

I'm the unregistered OP but now logged in and just wanted to thank you both for your replies. If nothing I else I hope to settle my nerves a bit before I have to appear and this is very helpful.


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## BRION24 (Sep 19, 2008)

You can tell the judge your story but the Lidar is extremely accurate and if he was aiming at you then 86 mph was your speed. Also unless you were doing about 35-40 mph, you weren't stopping your bike in 20 yards or 60 feet. 

I would bet that the Trooper hit you with the Lidar before you even saw him and that you hadn't slowed down yet. Also motorcycles are very powerful vehicles for their size and you can easily accelerate to a high speed without even noticing. Maybe you were doing 86 maybe you weren't. If I had to guess either way I would side with the Lidar. Sorry


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

Must have been a tail wind rather than a head wind that day on your way home.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

It can be un-nerving to appear before a judge, just remember they are human as well (I think:-k) Dress in business attire, no jeans or hats. As I suggested, keep it brief and to the point, as judges' attention spans tend to wander during these hearings. Don't engage in arguing with the officer, and don't go take the advice of those websites on how to "beat" a ticket with scientific jargon. I personally know of one judge who gets pissed when people try that and he shuts them down. Best of luck.


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

"You can tell the judge your story but the Lidar is extremely accurate and if he was aiming at you then 86 mph was your speed. Also unless you were doing about 35-40 mph, you weren't stopping your bike in 20 yards or 60 feet. 

I would bet that the Trooper hit you with the Lidar before you even saw him and that you hadn't slowed down yet. Also motorcycles are very powerful vehicles for their size and you can easily accelerate to a high speed without even noticing. Maybe you were doing 86 maybe you weren't. If I had to guess either way I would side with the Lidar. Sorry"

I appreciate your input Brion24 and also your honesty. Your message reflects my confusion. Me, my habits, my bike (a Buell XB12X in case anyone assumed I was on a sportbike) all speak to me in contrast to not knowing that I was going that fast. In all honesty, I have twisted the throttle to 75 MPH and I know that it is extremely uncomfortable due to wind buffeting - and not that it matters in this case, but I did so because a woman chatting happily away on her cell phone merged right into my lane. Scared the heck outta me.

I figure I was going 70 mph at the absolute max (again, given the feel of the bike under speed) and mayble less and as soon as I had visual of the Trooper I was off the throttle. I am fearful of giving too many identifying details, but suffice it to say that I was at an interchange where the Trooper and I could make visual contact at approximately the same time due to road curvature and where he was positioned.

And to reiterate, his statement as read by the Clerk Magistrate was that he hit the Lidar when I was in the middle lane. By that time, I had looked him in the eye, acknowledged his waving me over, and I am not exaggerating to say that he did not have to pull out on to the Pike to either convey his intention or pull up behind me. I am a lousy judge of distance, but just by observing the road that I travel daily (you can imagine how much careful attention I pay to this matter) he could not have either had visual sight of me nor clocked my speed prior to his waving me off the road. His own statement confirms he clocked me in the middle lane (I think I've thoroughly explained why I can't comprehend that I was going that fast either when he visually sighted me nor when he states he hit the Lidar in my original post so I won't rehash it) so that is why I am at such a complete loss for how this could have happened.

You are right - motorcycles accelerate quickly but the effects are not lost on a rider that is subject to other traffic or (in my case) the wind buffeting. If I was travelling that quickly, I can't imagine that I would have even seen the Trooper much less haven reacted so quickly to pull over. Was it 20 yards? Was it 30 yards? Was it 50 yards? I have no expertise to measure and I don't think it is wise to backtrack and try to measure.

I will give you this much detail in hopes that it might help me explain: this was eastbound at the Rte 9 interchange, the Trooper could not have visualized me through the curve, and I was stopped well before the Pike curves again back to the right. I just can't understand that I could have been going that fast (again, aside from my personal barriers) and have safely pulled over and come to a stop so quickly if I had been at that speed.

I am not trying to make any enemies, not trying to badmouth a Trooper who I truly believe was trying to do his job to the best of his ability (and as an almost daily commuter on the Mass Pike I very much appreciate all that the State Police do to make my drive safer), but I just can't understand - especially with the alleged accuracy of the Lidar - how this could have happened.

I have a very strong belief in personal responsibiity and feel that if you don't display the integrity that allows you to look yourself in the mirror that this is what has led our country astray in many ways. That is one of the reasons that I always measure my actions against what is right vs. wrong whether it is legally at fault or not is irrelevant to me. But when I honestly believe I have been wrongfully targeted - and this is a first for me - I am trying to understand how that could have happened and what I can do to present my case. One of the wonderful principles of our country allows me to present my defense and I am just trying to figure out how I got into this predicament, what I can do, and if it all goes wrong what the repercussions might be.

That being said, I also appreciate your feedback to my post.


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

Johnny Law, you can bet I will be in the same business attire that I wear to my account visits: a suit for sure. And all I want to do is be as honest as I have been with my post here - again, I whole-hearteldly believe in personal responsibility which has been so regretfully absent from our culture in recent years. Thank you for your input.


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## OfficerObie59 (Sep 14, 2007)

Johnny Law said:


> It can be un-nerving to appear before a judge,


I'll agree...even as the cop. Down this-a-way, the hearings occur during the hustle and bustle of first session when there is a full courtroom of people waiting to be arraigned. I was quite nervous myself until I did it a couple times.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

I like to open with "Good afternoon your Honor (Mag. appeals are always in the afternoon here) my name is Johnny Law, I have been a police officer in the City of ______ for 16 years. On such and such a date and time, blah blah blah. Those are essentially the facts your Honor." I always remember to articulate and enunciate, can't be too careful!


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

Johnny Law said:


> I like to open with "Good afternoon your Honor (Mag. appeals are always in the afternoon here) my name is Johnny Law, I have been a police officer in the City of ______ for 16 years. On such and such a date and time, blah blah blah. Those are essentially the facts your Honor." I always remember to articulate and enunciate, can't be too careful!


I guess I can only hope that the Trooper who appears in contrast to me isn't quite so articulate (and considering I'm on for the AM maybe I'll have some fortune on my side?? ;-) (hey, hey y'all...I'm just trying to make light of what is a sobering situation for me and that is in no way to be construed as an insult to anyone here in law enforcement)


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## Guest (Jan 25, 2009)

Johnny Law said:


> I like to open with "Good afternoon your Honor (Mag. appeals are always in the afternoon here) my name is Johnny Law, I have been a police officer in the City of ______ for 16 years. On such and such a date and time, blah blah blah. Those are essentially the facts your Honor." I always remember to articulate and enunciate, can't be too careful!


haha... Does the judge have his own screen name?


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

If I was a judge, things would be different, that's for sure.


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## fra444 (Nov 23, 2008)

MARiderGrl said:


> And all I want to do is be as honest as I have been with my post here - again, *I whole-heartedly believe in personal responsibility* which has been so regretfully absent from our culture in recent years.


OK that is one of the most mature and refreshing things I read or heard here or anywhere in a *LONG TIME!*


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## justanotherparatrooper (Aug 27, 2006)

Best of luck, youve got nothing to lose but some time and I know the Trooper will appreciate it.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Hey not picking on you but...

A Buell xb12x is a naked street fighter (sport) bike. Even with some bags on it, it a torquey bastard that does 86mph without much fuss.

Good luck and focus on being sincere and apologetic.


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## dcs2244 (Jan 29, 2004)

I had a kid on a Buell xb12x whack a tri-beam GR and several pipe fence posts...his foot was off and he was DRT. The Buell needed a new shift lever and it would be back in service. His speed was about a buck when he biffed the GR... :alcoholi:


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

mpd61 said:


> Hey not picking on you but...
> 
> A Buell xb12x is a naked street fighter (sport) bike. Even with some bags on it, it a torquey bastard that does 86mph without much fuss.
> 
> Good luck and focus on being sincere and apologetic.


My intention is to always to conduct myself in a sincere manner and I have no difficulties with being apologetic. That whole personal responsibility thing, ya know?

Pick away, one opens the door by posting in an internet forum. But at least in the Buell marketing world, the XB12X is their sport adventure bike (FWIW, I can't even pop a wheelie on my dirt bike much less the Buell...well, ok, I'm too chicken to even try the latter and the consequences of failure too harsh even if I was doing it in an off-road environment.)

The street fighters and sport bikes fall under the 1125 and other models of the XB12. My dream purchase would have been a BMW GS or a KTM 990 but the Harley dealer that carried the Buell line made me a deal I couldn't refuse and the BMW and KTMS are way $$$$$.

And the Buell rides nicely although not as adept in off-road conditions as the afore-mentioned models. I especially have difficulty standing on the pegs as I am tall (with all of my height in my legs) and the ergonomics of the bike put my weight too far forward. So I can stand on off-road uphills but have to sit in and let the bike roll on downhills. Its also hampered by being geared a little too high and 17" wheels don't offer much choice in a more off-road worthy tire.


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## Harley387 (May 1, 2002)

I don't know what the hell you were doing on a motorcycle in January.......but I like it.


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

Harley387 said:


> I don't know what the hell you were doing on a motorcycle in January.......but I like it.


Oh boy do I hate to disappoint but this happened during the summer. I actually would try to be out on a motorcycle now that I have some heated gear but with the incredibly lousy conditions, the devastation salt wreaks on a bike, and still healing from a nasty dirt bike accident (I can at least appreciate the irony that I was on a trail that I've mountain biked innumerable times and had a slow speed fall backwards with just the right amount of "luck"  to land head first on rocks) at the end of November that I will likely wait til Spring arrives.

Oh well...how many more days???? And please, no reminders of all the March/April snow that's been seen up here. P:


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## Guest (Jan 26, 2009)

MARiderGrl said:


> I guess I can only hope that the Trooper who appears in contrast to me isn't quite so articulate


In actuality you SHOULD be hoping that the Trooper doesn't show up AT ALL !!!!!!! Might be your saving grace if he couldn't be there for some reason. Good luck.



dcs2244 said:


> I had a kid on a Buell xb12x whack a tri-beam GR and several pipe fence posts...his foot was off and he was DRT. The Buell needed a new shift lever and it would be back in service. His speed was about a buck when he biffed the GR... :alcoholi:


a) what is a tri-beam GR ?
b) I love saying DRT.


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## mpd61 (Aug 7, 2002)

Sniper said:


> In actuality you SHOULD be hoping that the Trooper doesn't show up AT ALL !!!!!!! Might be your saving grace if he couldn't be there for some reason. Good luck.
> 
> a) what is a tri-beam GR ?
> b) I love saying DRT.


Tri-beam Guard Rail
DRT fails me though...:-k


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## pahapoika (Nov 5, 2006)

DRT- Dead Right There

good luck. maybe your clean driving record , a short and sweet story, no-show trooper and the judge getting some action the night before might get you a win 

have ridden many years and it's a 50/50 chance of getting a break.


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## Guest (Jan 27, 2009)

Is it me, or does she post like Grasshopper...


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## Goose (Dec 1, 2004)

5-0 said:


> Is it me, or does she post like Grasshopper...


She's too wise to be Grasshopper...and not in that fake BS kind of way.


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## Johnny Law (Aug 8, 2008)

5-0 said:


> Is it me, or does she post like Grasshopper...


Naaah, way too nice for that!


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

Grasshopper? I don't get it...

Can someone explain so I can respond on my own behalf! 



pahapoika said:


> DRT- Dead Right There
> 
> good luck. maybe your clean driving record , a short and sweet story, no-show trooper and the judge getting some action the night before might get you a win
> 
> have ridden many years and it's a 50/50 chance of getting a break.


Thanks for the positive vibes, I suppose I can use all the luck I can get coming my way. Although phrasing it that way makes me a bit uncomfortable. I don't quite know how to split hairs in the semantics as I'm not trying to beat the system in any way. It is truly my belief that I was not travelling at that rate of speed for the reasons already covered. Otherwise I wouldn't have even appealed in the first place. I would have taken what I deserved and learned from that lesson how to behave going forward.

But being at a loss for how I have found myself in this situation makes that quite difficult. That's a major factor in my posting in this forum - trying to understand how this might have happened. My profession preaches identifying root causes and taking corrective action and that's the message I am continuously sending to my clients. So it is only natural that I apply it to my own behavior. I have been nothing but honest and sincere in all my posts on this topic and have no intention of altering that course. Not looking for the easy way out or tips to skate on something that I should rightfully own up to as being at fault.

Responsibility starts at home, each time you look yourself in the mirror. How much better would our society be if we each took that to heart? And I can only imagine the weight that would be lifted from the shoulders of the LEOs that are out there serving and protecting.


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## Bostonblackie (Jan 27, 2009)

Chippy?


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## kwflatbed (Dec 29, 2004)

Just do a search for grasshopper and all of your questions will be answered


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## MARiderGrl (Jan 24, 2009)

kwflatbed said:


> Just do a search for grasshopper and all of your questions will be answered


I tried, but without reading through all of the threads nothing obvious jumped out other than the one entitled was Grasshopper missed. So that coupled with Frank and Johnny Law's appreciated responses leads me to understand it is not a flattering depiction.

In any case, from what I gathered I can say this on my behalf: I certainly do not hold myself to be above others or a pinnacle of perfection*. Far from it. But I do strive to maintain integrity in my professional and personal lives. So FWIW, all that I have posted has been with that in mind.

*heck I drink, I engage in adrenaline junky sports (running the spectrum from mountain biking to dirt biking to road riding of the pedalling and motorized kind), and I have been known to <gasp> swear on occasion. OMG, I think I'm human! :lol:

I'm sure I could add quite a bit to such a short list but suffice it to say that there are things that I refuse to compromise on and I think that to repeat them is beating a dead horse. (where's that cool smiley I've seen on other sites when I finally have a chance to use it in an appropriate context!). So I hope my participation, especially in this personal (to me) thread, is held up to that standard.


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