# Cop out on environmental police?



## cc3915

Taxpayers will fork over nearly $9 million this year for an obscure police force to chase backyard moose, investigate roadkill and bust ATV and snowmobile scofflaws - duties that frequently blur jurisdictional law enforcement lines and yield relatively few arrests and scant fines, a Herald review found.

Recent actions involving the Massachusetts Environmental Police highlight a confusing maze of overlapping turf:

In August, Westport police arrested five people for allegedly running an unlicensed slaughterhouse infested with rats and diseased animals. Local cops led the raid while the environmental police assisted with several federal agencies and animal cruelty organizations.

Cop out on environmental police? - BostonHerald.com


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## 263FPD

Liberal media strikes again. Yes, let's get rid of Environmental Police. Hey let's get rid of the MSP and the Municipal Police agencies too. Screw it, who needs law enforcement alltogether. Let the public police itself. Judging by how all of these people out there second guess us and monday morning quarterback all that we do, they are way more capable to do the job better then any of us can.


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## rg1283

Every EPO is pretty much a working EPO in the field, even the LTs. This Herald article looks like it was written before lunch time at Panera Bread.

What is with the high salary BS? They always take Administrator's salary. 

I was reading in one of the Sport's Mans newspapers about the EPOs and it said that most of the EPOs are well over 45 and a few retirements could easily decimate the agency.


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## Piper

It was a tough article. I was an EPO for 4 years before I left for a local PD and I still keep in touch w/ quite a few guys. That agency is already decimated. They are 40-50 officers short from when I was there and we were "straight out" back then. With fewer and fewer officers its no surprise that their stats are suffering.


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## Killjoy

That article is unconscionable. The EPO's work hard at a thankless job, with very few officers for an entire state. If they did disband the agency, then the Herald would be screaming about how animals were being unfairly hunted and harvested and why doesn't the state do anything about it. A friend of mine who is a big time hunter says the mere presence of an EPO in an area keeps the hunters on the straight and narrow and prevents areas from being hunted out. Its a duty the MSP can't spare personnel for.


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## Guest

REALLY........... Who gives a fuck?


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## Lost

So, is the Boston Herald trying to say that because there are only 75 EPO's (who are underpaid, with only 6 over 100k for an agency with low turnover), most of these problems are going unsolved? Or that the State has been neutering the Environmental Police by cutting $900k out of a small budget of a cash strapped organization? That the EP has been so short on cash that they must rely upon federal grants to buy new boats, but that those grants are few and far between on account of the Sheriff marine patrols?

I know the Herald is just shit stirring til they find a broth that will boil, but WHAT THE F IS THEIR POINT. I love that the article makes it out that they just assist Feds, but then overlook who bought them there 2 new boats.


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## OfficerObie59

You gotta love the subtitle:


> Review finds force overlaps other agencies' turfs


Yeah, no shit Sherlock, they patrol the entire state.

Whatever, just another example of my not-so-nuanced position that by and large people hate police, and that the media will feed the public whatever they want to sell newspapers--because that's surely some shoddy reporting. God forbid we expect anything different.


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## jettsixx

Again someone tell me why I read the comments:stomp: I am thinking the days of EPOs giving warnings just ended.


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## topcop14

That article is a joke.


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## jettsixx

Very good reason not to look at them then.


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## Mass

Boston Herald sucks!!!!


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## Mad-Dog24

I was going to leave a long post but I am going out to get some short lobsters now that I know there won't be any EPO's around.


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## justanotherparatrooper

I cant wait to hear what tuna and boats have to say


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## Tuna

Thanks for the backing MC's, I've been asked not to make any comments as of yet, "ANYWHERE", but anytime the author of this piece of yellow journaliziam wants to ride with me, he, she , it , is welcome. Hunting season is fast approaching, lets go play with guns in the woods.


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## cc3915

Tuna said:


> Thanks for the backing MC's, I've been asked not to make any comments as of yet, "ANYWHERE", but anytime the author of this piece of yellow journaliziam wants to ride with me, he, she , it , is welcome. Hunting season is fast approaching, lets go play with guns in the woods.


Of course they won't do that.....they may have to report the TRUTH.


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## mpd61

Tuna said:


> Thanks for the backing MC's, I've been asked not to make any comments as of yet, "ANYWHERE", but anytime the author of this piece of yellow journaliziam wants to ride with me, he, she , it , is welcome. Hunting season is fast approaching, lets go play with guns in the woods.


Thanks Tuna! I'd be your wingman anytime. What kills me is I was number#3 on the EPO list in the middle of this decade (like 03-05) and they never hired one. SUCKS! I had recently got my Earth Science Degree with Environmental studies and passed the test with like a 73! It was HARD! oh well...spilt milk...
Herald SUCKS!


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## justanotherparatrooper

Tuna said:


> Thanks for the backing MC's, I've been asked not to make any comments as of yet, "ANYWHERE", but anytime the author of this piece of yellow journaliziam wants to ride with me, he, she , it , is welcome. Hunting season is fast approaching, lets go play with guns in the woods.


We gots your back...it'll cost you at the next m&g though


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## GARDA

Tuna said:


> Thanks for the backing MC's, I've been asked not to make any comments as of yet, "ANYWHERE", but *anytime the author of this piece of yellow journaliziam wants to ride with me, he, she , it , is welcome. Hunting season is fast approaching, lets go play with guns in the woods.*


It'd be a real tragedy if someone 'Dick Cheney'd' his ass with buckshot. :wink_smile:


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## OldCop

You'd THINK the author of the article would do some research through the Heralds' own archives, or a print service. Naaah - too much like work. Off hand, I could think of 20-30 major cases / SAR saves / lifesaving awards, etc. just for starters - not bad for a small agency. Maybe the Herald should interview the Bish family and share their opinion of the MEP with their reading audience????? Never let facts get in the way of selling papers................


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## OfficerObie59

The best part of the yellow journalism piece is how Mr. Wedge notes that the agency has hired 6 officers at the time of dwindling budgets. He fails to note that the agency as lost like, what, almost a quarter of the patrol force in the past five years.

By the way, I didn't know you guys were "obscure". Apparently Mr. Wedge has never ventured outside of the 128 beltway.


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## OldCop

OfficerObie59 said:


> The best part of the yellow journalism piece is how Mr. Wedge notes that the agency has hired 6 officers at the time of dwindling budgets. He fails to note that the agency as lost like, what, almost a quarter of the patrol force in the past five years.
> 
> By the way, I didn't know you guys were "obscure". Apparently Mr. Wedge has never ventured outside of the 128 beltway.


We hired 5. 2 veteran cops and 3 that are at New Braintree. That only leaves about 45-50 vacancies compared to what there was back in the 1990's. Real "obscure" agency. In 2008, the top 2 stories for the year in the Worcester Telegram were EPO stories. One about the beetle cases and the other about the theft of a quarter million dollars worth of lobster and seafood from a truck rollover. Same "obscure" agency that has investigated every fatal boat accident in the state for umpteen years. Mr "W" probably doesn't even venture outside his office, nevermind 128. Care to guess which agency is THE major player for all of the big events in Boston Harbor?What he's basically advocating is a scorched-earth policy of reducing the state budget, no matter what the consequences. I'll bet the municipalities will be real thrilled having to pick up these responsibilities as well, without funding. 3000 tickets, but how many calls for service??? Any Chief want to step up to the plate for that one?


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## OfficerObie59

OldCop said:


> We hired 5. 2 veteran cops and 3 that are at New Braintree. That only leaves about 45-50 vacancies compared to what there was back in the 1990's. Real "obscure" agency. In 2008, the top 2 stories for the year in the Worcester Telegram were EPO stories. One about the beetle cases and the other about the theft of a quarter million dollars worth of lobster and seafood from a truck rollover. Same "obscure" agency that has investigated every fatal boat accident in the state for umpteen years. Mr "W" probably doesn't even venture outside his office, nevermind 128. Care to guess which agency is THE major player for all of the big events in Boston Harbor?What he's basically advocating is a scorched-earth policy of reducing the state budget, no matter what the consequences. I'll bet the municipalities will be real thrilled having to pick up these responsibilities as well, without funding. 3000 tickets, but how many calls for service??? Any Chief want to step up to the plate for that one?


Great facts. Unfortunately, the public doesn't care.


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## SinePari

It's funny how the author is somehow advocating the issuance of more tickets (for revenue?). The simple fact of the matter is that there is only one state agency which is actually profitable: the lottery.

You can't win public favors on these stories. The MSP invites a writer for a ride-along with a good Sergeant for a busy mid shift down on I-195 and the story becomes a glorified day-in-the-life of a traffic cop. The comments become nauseating. You see how things just backfire.

Another Trooper takes a reporter along for video of a day shift, same thing. You could be in the busiest sector of your patrol area and get tons of hot calls. Yet you will still be judged by those in their cozy cubicles reading the story, making snide comments about how you do your job.

The truth is that I would take the EPOs into the MSP in a heart beat, but only as a separate troop. Five year moratorium for transfers in and out of the troop to minimize politicking for juicy assignments.


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## Tuna

Just finished reading all the comments. WOAH. Guess I know why I have a job and why every police dept. needs more officers out there. About 3% pro EPO the rest sound like people I have met in the field. We must be doing something right with all those idiots pissed at us.


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## OldCop

Tuna said:


> Just finished reading all the comments. WOAH. Guess I know why I have a job and why every police dept. needs more officers out there. About 3% pro EPO the rest sound like people I have met in the field. We must be doing something right with all those idiots pissed at us.


Ever since Dukakis shut down the mental hospitals the inmates have been trying to run the asylum. I read some of the comments and it made my head hurt - apparently we know where all of the MCAS failures are, sitting in mommy's basement at the computer............

Just checked, we're up to 11.6k calls for the year (3,000+ citations) that means almost 1 in 4 of the "clients" we deal with get a Happy Meal cupon. No wonder we're so "popular"!!!!!!!!!


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## Piper

Having been a local cop for almost 13 years now, I can say that my EPO days were my most dangerous and frustrating work wise in my career. Some of it was of course due to the MEP being treated as a 2nd or 3rd class agency (Tuna and I had no portables for the 4 years I worked there and our Dispatch Center in Boston closed at 10pm every night; knowing that you had no back up coming made being by yourself out in the woods, or on the water, pretty hairy at times). Not having our own lock ups made us ridiculously dependent on the altruism of other police agencies. I remember driving around for a couple hours w/ a default wms arrest trying to find a place to house him after the judge at Dedham District Court left early to squeeze in 18 holes on a friday. Issues like that cut down on your ability to make arrests, and I bet not being able to carry your sidearm now in court while in full uniform, also cuts down on the number of citations/summons you want to prosecute at your District Court. Also, just about every single person the EPO's dealt with in the field are armed in some way. Nation-wide, they have some of the highest incidents of officer assaults.

Enough comprehensive studies and audits have been done of the MEP over the years outlining the importance of their mission while documenting what was needed to give the EPO's the resources to address them, but each one eventually just went up on a shelf of some bureaucrat's office somewhere without being implemented. 

Of course the Herald was being sensational by publishing their article in some vain hope to keep print journalism relevant (I'm a former Herald employee too, but thats a different story). In times like these, where our jobs and negotiated benefits are under constant assault, its a shame to throw these hard working officers to the cop-hating wolves just to sell a few papers.


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## cpd4720

This the first time I have ever seen the Boston Herald described as " The liberal media."


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## Guest

cpd4720 said:


> This the first time I have ever seen the Boston Herald described as " The liberal media."


The Herald is no different than TMZ nowadays.

Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.


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## TopCop24

MSP75 said:


> The Herald is no different than TMZ nowadays.
> 
> Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk.


I beg to differ...TMZ is more reputable. Plus they have better pictures


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## cpd4720

I don't think I have bought the Herald in 5 years. I flip through it at the 7/11. I think the Best Buy circular has more pages then the Saturday edition


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## EnforceOfficer

"Taxpayers will fork over nearly $9 million this year for an obscure police force to chase backyard moose, investigate roadkill and bust ATV and snowmobile scofflaws"

Does this supermarket checkout paper know how many people die in North America a year in ATV and snowmobile accidents ?

9 million sounds like a deal for the size of agency, sounds like the agency is stretching each dollar given to them to the max...


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## Adrian

first the courts dissed EPOs by forbidding them to enter courts, even if on duty and in uniform, with a gun...yet allow part time officers who work for small towns and never went to a full time police academy and have zero jurisdiction in the municipality the court is located in, to carry weapons in, now the media is on their backs....how long before seasonal park rangers replace them...? let them merge with MSP as an environmental law enforcement unit...streamline and save $


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## EnforceOfficer

Adrian said:


> first the courts dissed EPOs by forbidding them to enter courts, even if on duty and in uniform, with a gun...


Why can't they enter a courthouse with a gun ? Can they carry their expandable and OC in the courthouse, or are the Judges afraid of those too ?


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## jettsixx

Adrian said:


> first the courts dissed EPOs by forbidding them to enter courts, even if on duty and in uniform, with a gun...yet allow part time officers who work for small towns and never went to a full time police academy and have zero jurisdiction in the municipality the court is located in, to carry weapons in, now the media is on their backs....how long before seasonal park rangers replace them...? let them merge with MSP as an environmental law enforcement unit...streamline and save $


I too think it is rediculous not to allow the EPO in court with their firearms, although I really dont see the need to sh*t on part timers while doing it.


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## Tuna

Adrian said:


> first the courts dissed EPOs by forbidding them to enter courts, even if on duty and in uniform, with a gun...yet allow part time officers who work for small towns and never went to a full time police academy and have zero jurisdiction in the municipality the court is located in, to carry weapons in, now the media is on their backs....how long before seasonal park rangers replace them...? let them merge with MSP as an environmental law enforcement unit...streamline and save $


YO adrain, get your facts straight. It's only a few courts that have an issue with EPO's carrying. As far as the herald, and that piece of yellow journalizim, read it, then check your facts. There's more bullshit in that STORY than there is most of your past posts. I'm sure the Mods will agree that your welcome here if your intention is to add to, and learn from this site. You just come here to stir the shit than maybe you should stick to the herald comment section where you will be better received.


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## notacop

An interesting report/review of the office of Environmental Law Enforcement (Ma. Environmental Police) may be found here:

http://www.massaudubon.org/PDF/advocacy/FinalReport.pdf

The review is from 2005 and outlines many internal problems with the Ma. EP from budgetary and morale issues all the way up to the need to obtain a qualified Director... It makes for interesting reading and I'm sure it found it's way into the circular file.

For the record, as long as there are hunters and people who fish (these numbers decline every year in Ma.), there needs to be F&W officers.


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## EnforceOfficer

Do we need to watch "A Civil Action" again to remind us why we need a well-staffed and equipped Environmental Police/LE Agency...


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## fra444

I dont know. I dont want the disbanded I just dont want them taking my details either, (and they are).


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## notacop

My point being... If the Governor (Romney) had taken action on just the points of the review that didn't require additional funding, the agency wouldn't have half the problems it has today.

As a civilian, I always find it interesting that the people in charge always want to save money by threatening to cut police, fire and education budgets... The very last place any thinking person would go looking to save a buck.


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## Tuna

fra444 said:


> I dont know. I dont want the disbanded I just dont want them taking my details either, (and they are).


????????????????????


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## Adrian

Tuna, take a breath. I was not insulting anyone; I was defending you guys. Sure I've teased people who seem to take the job way too seriously in the past, but not this time. I was not dissing municipal part timers either; just pointing out that some courts apparently consider them to be more of a police officer than you...they can carry into courts that you can't. I feel no need to carry into court but support your right to since you have state wide law enforcement jurisdiction and have more training than part timers ...I support their right to carry too..just pointing out how the courts and now the media appear to think of MEP as a sad sack agency...hence the court's disrespect and the Herald's article

---------- Post added at 08:49 ---------- Previous post was at 08:40 ----------

Jetsixx, no intent on dissing part timers...just pointing out that EPO's have more training than part timers yet are apparently not considered to be competent enough to carry a gun in court houses, like part timers can...the disrespect is from the court , not me...sure I've stirred the pot when I feel it is needed to slow down people here who take the job way too seriously, but this was not the case in this instance...some people here are too sensitive, for whatever reason..


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## Adrian

simply explaining a post; like i care what you or anyone else thinks...no apology from me or backing down


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## Boats

> I dont know. I dont want the disbanded I just dont want them taking my details either, (and they are).


Really?, I am assuming that you are referring to FRHSP. FRHSP is a DCR facility that was previously a DEM facility. We have first right of refusal for all private details on these properties. How are we taking your details? We, actually I, as the detail Officer for the past 5 years have requested that we do one and one (EP and FR) on these details if it is more than one Officer and if we don't fill them they go to you. The amount of details that occur at this facility a year is probably half of the total details that FR gets a week. Are you really going to bust balls over 8-10 details a year??


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## kwflatbed

Adrian said:


> simply explaining a post; like i care what you or anyone else thinks...no apology from me or backing down


Sounds like you are on your way to a permanent trip on the bus.


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## fra444

Boats said:


> Really?, I am assuming that you are referring to FRHSP. FRHSP is a DCR facility that was previously a DEM facility. We have first right of refusal for all private details on these properties. How are we taking your details? We, actually I, as the detail Officer for the past 5 years have requested that we do one and one (EP and FR) on these details if it is more than one Officer and if we don't fill them they go to you. The amount of details that occur at this facility a year is probably half of the total details that FR gets a week. Are you really going to bust balls over 8-10 details a year??


YUP!!!!!!! Seeing as how you wanna come across as an ass about this I will indeed bust balls about this! First YOU don't answer the calls for suspicious persons or activities down there!! SECOND I never saw you there when I was taking break reports for 15 to 30 motor vehicles on a weekend night when the Regata was open, third I'm fairly sure I have yet to see you answer fight call there either!!

MSP has a rule as do local officers, whoever takes the calls gets the details. I notice you weren't so all fired up about those details when FRCA was going on! What?! Was it too much work POLICING down at the festival?!

Another thing that needs to be corrected, you get them, if you cant fill them then MSP gets the call, THEN FRPD gets it.

OH!! And as far as your usual piss poor attitude goes go screw yourself!!


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## 31Aret

Environmental police cases end up in district court. They can be complex cases that require advance preparation, like bringing in a state biologist and eliciting testimony somewhat beyond "what happened next?" Most district court prosecutors are both young and sometimes not in a position to do alot of preparation; the case gets passed around and eventually dumped. Probably doesn't do alot for EPO motivation if that is happening regularly. 

Long time ago, but I did once see an EPO coordinate a fairly complex investigation with federal fisheries, another state's fisheries and the USCG. The case involved some long, cold surveillance and, eventually, a five day jury trial after hearing on a suppression motion. A conviction resulted and the defendant lost a 60ft fishing boat in the subsequent civil forfeiture. 

If their cases were handled a little more effectively they might be more aggressive.


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## rg1283

The Vote Yes on Question 3 page links to the Hearld's Article on this.

Question 3 I am concerned about.. If it Passes it will make Prop. 2 1/2 look like nothing.


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## EnforceOfficer

31Aret said:


> Environmental police cases end up in district court. They can be complex cases that require advance preparation, like bringing in a state biologist and eliciting testimony somewhat beyond "what happened next?" Most district court prosecutors are both young and sometimes not in a position to do alot of preparation; the case gets passed around and eventually dumped. Probably doesn't do alot for EPO motivation if that is happening regularly. .


Each of our Ministries in Ontario have their own Prosecutors...The most feared are the Labour Ministry's Prosecutors, as they have a conviction rate in the %90 area...I've heard of them getting an $18 000 fine against an employer for the offence of taking down a mandatory poster outlining minimum wage and holiday pay laws after it was posted in the workplace by an inspector...


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## fra444

Oh, and for the record I absolutely dont believe that the Enviro Police should be disbanded. Like most agencies in this state they are under staffed and frankly are far better suited to do their job then anyone else in LE.


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