# Female cadets fail test



## Nachtwächter

Mar 10, 2006

*Female cadets fail test*

Obstacle course a time problem

* By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
*

Female police cadets have failed a state-required physical test at a much higher rate than men, triggering concerns among Boston and Worcester police leaders. They have called for a review of parts of the exam, saying it could be discriminatory.

The statistics come at a time when police chiefs across the state are pushing for greater female representation in their departments, and some have questioned whether the design of an obstacle course as part of the physical exam indirectly discriminates against women.

Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen M. O'Toole has expressed concern, and Worcester Police Chief Gary J. Gemme said the test has excluded candidates who otherwise are well-qualified to be police officers.

"That type of system needs to be looked at closely, particularly because it is affecting a particular group," Chief Gemme said yesterday.

"Unfortunately, one test seems to negatively affect females. It seems to be the only obstacle preventing otherwise acceptable candidates from becoming police officers."

A recent Worcester recruit class saw all six of its female candidates fail. Of the six, two dropped out of the class before taking the final exam because they could not pass at practice and couldn't afford to waste the $150 fee, the chief said.

The remaining four candidates all failed the test after paying the fee. Of them, three women have taken a retest but still failed, losing a total of $300 each on test fees. The final candidate is expected to retake the test today.

The results are similar to those of a recent class out of Boston. Of 17 female candidates, 13 failed, Boston police spokeswoman Elaine Driscoll said.

She said the results are alarming, particularly because Commissioner O'Toole has pushed for a greater female representation on the Boston force.

"Any portion of a test that eliminates greater than 50 percent of female candidates is something we have to take a look at," Ms. Driscoll said. "Commissioner O'Toole is committed to creating diversity within the department. Therefore, one can reason if a portion of the test is eliminating a percentage of candidates, we feel that would warrant review."

The exam is part of the Physical Abilities Test required under the state Civil Service rules. Any potential police officer seeking to attend a training academy must first pass the Civil Service requirements, including the physical test.

As part of the test, candidates are required to do a "dummy drag," an event simulating dragging a victim or suspect. Candidates must drag a dummy over a course within 11 seconds.

A trigger pull event requires candidates to squeeze a handgun trigger six times with each hand within 7.1 seconds.

A separation event has candidates in a crowd-control situation, where they have to learn to control individuals. In the event, a candidate must pull a hanging bag backward to the ground across a marked line within 14.2 seconds.

And in the obstacle course, candidates learn to chase and take down a suspect. They must climb up and down stairs, go through an open window, climb over a wall and negotiate a series of cones arranged in a zigzag pattern, according to a description of the test on the state Human Resources Division Web site. The obstacle course must be completed within 130.4 seconds.

Chief Gemme said all of his candidates completed the obstacle course, but just seconds beyond the deadline. He questioned the fairness of a course that could disqualify a candidate by only a few seconds, when an applicant is well-qualified in all other areas of a review. Chief Gemme noted that, besides the state test, cadets training for jobs in Worcester must participate in a 25-week city course in which they compete in other physical tests.

Many have said that the climbing wall in the obstacle course has created the biggest concern. In the Worcester recruit class, only one of the six women could scale the wall without significant difficulty. The wall has proven difficult for candidates from other departments, as well.

"We are finding the wall has been an issue for some time, and we have brought that to the (Human Resources Division's) attention," said Ms. Driscoll, the Boston police spokeswoman.

Indeed, statewide results show women across the state have had difficulty passing the obstacle course. State statistics show that from July 1, 2005, to Feb. 28, 71 of the 110 female candidates failed the test, or 64 percent. In comparison, 92.5 percent of the 510 men who took the test during that period passed.

In 2004, 104 of the 172 women who took the test failed, or 60.5 percent. The failure trend has gotten progressively worse over the years. In 2003, 39 percent of the 121 female candidates who took the test failed. In 2002, only 36.4 percent of the 143 cadets failed, and in 2001 only 32.1 percent of the 140 cadets failed.

No one can say why the test results changed so dramatically since 2003. The test has remained the same.

Felix Brown, a spokesman for Gov. Mitt Romney's office, said yesterday that the Human Resources Division next month will request proposals for an outside agency to review and update the test. He said the recent concerns that the test is biased did not trigger the move to update the test, but it will be considered as part of the review.

He said Human Resources Division officials are willing to consider any police department's concerns, including having cadets take the test again if it has been updated. He stressed the test has remained the same for several years, while the failing statistics are only recent.

Many can have opinions, he said. But, "I don't think there's an agreed upon reason for the shift."

Nevertheless, the latest statistics are creating new obstacles for police departments looking to better diversify their departments.

"If you're eliminating a percentage of candidates, you're eliminating the applicant pool moving forward," Ms. Driscoll said.

Chief Gemme said that all six of the female cadets are Hispanic, which would have helped the department better represent Worcester's diversity. He said that he asked his recruitment team to search for minorities and women to join the new recruit class.

And of 100 applicants, 30 were selected to move on to the Civil Service process. That process has already eliminated what the chief called six qualified candidates who had passed his own department's vetting process. Of the 30, 11 were minorities. Now there are only five minorities.

"All I can do is look at what's in front of me," the chief said. "If I have six candidates take the test, and six fail, then I have to challenge the test.

"This would have been a great opportunity to hire six Hispanic females that would be role models in the community."


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## Irishpride

The PAT is not hard, plain and simple. It does not require any great amount of strength or athletic ability. Just about anyone who does not have some type of physical impairment or is morbidly obese should be able to easily pass the PAT with just a few months of training. If a applicant (they are not cadets if they can't get into the academy) can't pass the PAT they probably will be a total disgrace during the academy PT. I don't think any special accommodations should be made because their are no gender specific accommodations on the street. Its just my opinion but if men and women are going to be doing the same job they should be held to the same standard.


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## spdawg0734

I agree Wolfman, it is pathetic, but it is systematic of our society today, dumb down the schools, nutter male role models, feminise everything. It always amazes me the quick call to reduce the standards and then their false claim that they are equal in everything to men. I have nothing against females on this job if they hold their own, and that goes for men too, we have far to many wimps in that department also. Either you are qualified or you are not, either you want it bad enough to make sure you make the cut or go work at McDonalds. It is disheartening.


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## tarc

It amazes me that those who want to lower the standards in order to get those into and/or to graduate the academy, are those who have never had to depend on these "lesser" qualified people to help them in a potential life or death situation.


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## HousingCop

Oh, heaven forbid that a Police officer who just happens to be a woman "may" have to do some of the following during their career....
1) Pull the 12 lb trigger on a gun 6 times with both hands within a certain time frame.
2) Drag a dummy of dead weight which may represent a person from a precarious situation.
3) Jump over a 5 foot wall which criminals do with relative ease. 
They already dumbed down this test a few years back. I guess it's time to water it down yet again to find "suitable candidates" for these positions. Looks as if somebody wants to piss in the candidate pool yet again. 
I'd make a great brain surgeon or NASA scientist but it's those damn tests they put in my way that has been my stumbling block. Less Twinkies & bon bons while watching Oprah and more upper body strength training would deter this from occuring.


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## Nachtwächter

Mar 11, 2006

*Sixth female cadet fails test again*

Police complain about state rules

* By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
*

* 
WORCESTER- * The last of six female candidates who hoped to become police officers failed her second attempt in a state-required physical test yesterday, exacerbating concerns that a part of the test could be biased against women.

Worcester has referred six women to the most recent state Civil Service physical abilities test; all have now failed, some after two tries. The results are similar statewide: in Boston, 13 of 17 women who took the test recently failed.

Anyone looking to become a police officer must first pass the test, which includes obstacle courses and real-life scenarios, such as a test to pull a dummy over a line in a specified time.

Police Chief Gary J. Gemme said all of the women he has sent to the test have completed the course, but seconds behind deadline. Men have no problem completing the test on time, however, fueling concerns that parts of it could be biased against women. One noted feature is a climbing wall that has slowed most of the female candidates, making them fail, Boston and Worcester officials have said.

Police leaders have called for the state Human Resources Division to review the test for any biases. A spokeswoman for the governor's office said that a review is planned for next month. The spokesman, Felix Browne, said the concerns of female discrimination did not trigger the review, but will be included.

Worcester and Boston have their own training academies, but any cadet must first pass the Civil Service test to get into the local academies.

Chief Gemme said yesterday that he has asked for a stay of the recent results, to train the six women in the city's 24-week academy before they take the test again. He said the Human Resources Division has shown no flexibility in its guidelines, however. He said the city administration may file a formal complaint to the Human Resources Division requesting an immediate review.

The chief said the results of the test are frustrating, particularly because he's moving to better diversify the force by hiring more minority and female police officers. All of the six women in the new 30-member recruit class are Hispanic, which the chief has said would help his force better represent the community. Boston police have also moved to increase their female enrollment, and Boston Police Commissioner Kathleen M. O'Toole has expressed concern with the test.

"If a portion of the test is eliminating a percentage of candidates, we feel that should warrant review," said Elaine Driscoll, a Boston police spokeswoman.

State statistics show a recent trend of women failing the test at a far greater rate than men. From July 1, 2005, to Feb. 28, 71 of 110 female candidates statewide, or 64.5 percent, failed the test, while 92.5 percent of the 510 men tested in the same time period passed.

In the 2004 calendar year, 60 percent of women who took the test failed. The high female failure rates are only recent, however. From 2001 to 2003, only 36 percent of female candidates failed. No one can explain the recent failures. The test has remained the same.

Chief Gemme said the frustrating part is the candidates he has referred are otherwise qualified and have passed other background checks, but are being disqualified because they are seconds late in completing one part of the test.


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## NorwichAlum

I know of a few women who were unable to pass the test the first time. But they trained hard and now they are cops. No need to make the test easier.


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## kwflatbed

Sounds just like in early 1960 when they changed the test from the blue book to general knowledge, the next test they lowered the standards again so more people could pass the test.Judge Wynzwnsky (SP) froze the 1959, 1960, tests with no hires from it so that minorties could pass on the next test and be hired over the top scores on the blue book tests.
What else would you expect from Massachusetts.


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## dcs2244

As Solomon has said, "there is nothing new under the sun...". No one on this board should be surprised by these developments:

It is more important to hire [insert federally recognized victims group here] and increase the 'diversity' of the job than to actually hire people who can do the job.

Previous posters are right: the reason for the increased number of failures is that the candidates are not in shape.

Gee...maybe the candidates even relied on their membership in a federally recognized victims group to get on the job. Well...it worked!


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## lofu

NorwichAlum said:


> I know of a few women who were unable to pass the test the first time. But they trained hard and now they are cops. No need to make the test easier.


You beat me to this. There were at least two women in my academy class that failed at least once but then became motivated and trained hard and passed. Bottom line is if my life is on the line, I don't want someone coming to back me up up that can't pass that test. I don't care if they are male, female, black, white, purple, I want the best candidates for the job (both mentaly and physicaly) to work with me.


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## dcs2244

Too right, lofu!


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## bbelichick

If only 8% of Male Candidates are failing, then maybe the test should be made harder, not easier.


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## Tackleberry22

From 2001 - 2003 64% of the women passed, because they trained for the PAT. You can not just show up and expect to pass if you have not trained for it. These women had at least 5 months to train for the test and if they failed three times in a row then they should not be on. I feel no sympathy for them. This is what happens when GI. Jane Feminists go chanting, "we can do everything that guys can do.", but then cry fowl play when the time comes to put their money where their mouth is.


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## cchc28

I recall when I was in Hudson for my PAT, there were several females there. One of them made the mistake of saying that there should be different standards for the PAT for men and women. It just so happened that one of the proctors there was an already aggravated State Trooper, who happened to be within an earshot. He then asked her if she was only going to chase "bad" women... and the female burst into tears... and ran out. 

Not for nothing... but cmon. She couldn't take being yelled at a little........... I dont care how low you make "the wall". The last thing i would want is her in a uniform. Just my two cents.


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## mchef766

Personally I think the test is very fair. When I took the test in Hudson, MA recently, I passed with flying colors. While i was there, of all the females that where there, none passed. And to be honest, some, not all  were not really trying when they hit the 5 ft wall. But thats just my opinion and what i saw.


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## USMCTrooper

*e·qual* https://secure.reference.com/premiu...ttp://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=equal(














kw







l)
_adj._


Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.

Having the same privileges, status, or rights: equal before the law. 
Being the same for all members of a group: gave every player an equal chance to win.

*sep·a·rate* 
_v._ _tr._ 


To set or keep apart; disunite.
To space apart; scatter: small farms that were separated one from another by miles of open land. 
To sort: separate mail by postal zones.

To differentiate or discriminate between; distinguish
HOW CAN THESE TWO WORDS EVER MEAN THE SAME THING????????


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## 48Weeks

I definitly want someone backing me up who can't jump a 5 foot freaken wall. They'll do great out on the street. Let's just get rid of all standards. Who wants the top candidate anyways? Oh yeah, will the Police Departments who are concerned about "equality" blah blah blah stand up for the fat, sloppy and non-athletic males who can't pass this basic test as well? Wouldn't this equate to equality?


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## Bravo2-7

I sure some of you guys know about this, as it made the news when it happened. Last year, there was a female who had failed the PAT a couple times and was down to her last shot. You know what she did? She didn't quit like the article says a couple people did. She worked out, she BUILT a replica of the wall in the backyard and trained on it. She passed the PAT, and made it through the academy. Now to me, if we lower the standards again, it totally negates the hard work she went through. This story should be brought up to the people who want to change the test.


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## MARINECOP

bbelichick said:


> If only 8% of Male Candidates are failing, then maybe the test should be made harder, not easier.


Agreed, it should be harder. I just don't know how anyone wanting to be a police officer cannot think about preparing physically before a fitness test. Why bother showing up if you didn't prepare and possibly humiliate yourself in front of everyone.


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## badgebunny

Irishpride said:


> I don't think any special accommodations should be made because their are no gender specific accommodations on the street. Its just my opinion but if men and women are going to be doing the same job they should be held to the same standard.


I agree with you 100%!!! As you guys/gals know I am currently in RIPA and have taken a few sub courses (i.e Ground/Edged Weapon Defense). During this class one of the guys I worked with asked the DT instuctor "how hard do you want me to hit her?" I was PISSED :fire: that he asked this question and told him straight out..."Hit me like you would anyone else!!! Bring it on!!!" The DT instructor told him not to think of me as a female but a potential threat because you never know! This guy also said that he thought I should be trained differently then the guys!!! WHAT?!?!?!? I told him that I was not going to be able to pick and choose who I may get into the shit with!!! IMO get your asses out there and start training ladies!!! I have!!!


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## dcs2244

Great post, badgebunny! It's too bad that more people, male and female, don't have your excellent attitude. When you get a chance to fight that idiot, do not pull your punches...give him what-for! Too bad if he has to get a deferment to the next class because a "girl" kicked his butt and damaged his sorry behind!


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## Nachtwächter

I thought of a way to lower the standards have all the chiefs take the PAT then use the average time as the standard.

Officers should have to pass the PAT annually. Way to many let themselves go after the academy.


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## Guest

Bravo2-7 said:


> I sure some of you guys know about this, as it made the news when it happened. Last year, there was a female who had failed the PAT a couple times and was down to her last shot. You know what she did? She didn't quit like the article says a couple people did. She worked out, she BUILT a replica of the wall in the backyard and trained on it. She passed the PAT, and made it through the academy. Now to me, if we lower the standards again, it totally negates the hard work she went through. This story should be brought up to the people who want to change the test.


She's with the Quincy PD, and is a fine police officer.


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## FSCPD902

mchef766 said:


> Personally I think the test is very fair. When I took the test in Hudson, MA recently, I passed with flying colors. While i was there, of all the females that where there, none passed. *And to be honest, some, not all were not really trying when they hit the 5 ft wall. But thats just my opinion and what i saw*.


It's really fabulous that you said some not all but seriously you really think you wait and wait and wait for the god damn civil service card, you go through the whole process...and you know what...you say I'm just not gonna try at the PAT...are you retarded??? Of course they were trying, but as EVERYONE else already said they just weren't in shape and/or they just weren't ready for it...but not trying, give me a break.


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## Irish Wampanoag

Bring back the Cooper Test standards. Trigger Pull, dragging a dummy, jumping a six foot wall give me a brake!!! If you can not do any of these tasks you should not be a police officer. P: P: P:



I stand corrected a 5ft wall lol unbelievable


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## dcs2244

FSCPD902 said:


> It's really fabulous that you said some not all but seriously you really think you wait and wait and wait for the god damn civil service card, you go through the whole process...and you know what...you say I'm just not gonna try at the PAT...are you retarded??? Of course they were trying, but as EVERYONE else already said they just weren't in shape and/or they just weren't ready for it...but not trying, give me a break.


Okay, they were not 'trying' hard enough. If one wants the job...one will train for the job. They may have thought they were 'trying'...but they were only 'trying' the patience of the instructors and other candidates...


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## LA Copper

My department had the same problem a few years back with the exception that our wall is SIX feet high, not five feet like yours there in Mass.

Everyone, including women, had to get over the wall as part of the test to get into our academy. When the city decided we didn't have enough females on the job, they decided to get rid of "The Wall" as part of the entrance test for the same reasons as there in Mass. But, we do still have it in the academy to be able to graduate. Male or female, If you can't get over the wall by the end of the academy, you are asked to leave and cannot become an officer with our department. 

My wife went through the "old" system (as did I) where we had to get over the wall as one of the entry tests prior to entering the academy. She trained for it prior to getting in and she was able to do it. It wasn't easy but SHE DID It and I'm proud of her. And yes, she's a good cop (she's even a detective now.)

I agree, if you can't do it in the academy, how are you gonna be able to do it on the street when your life may be on the line?


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## dcs2244

My former wife didn't have to do the course...but the old bench press and Cooper thing. She passed.

And she completed every run in her academy...with a broken foot.

She's a cop now...and will best most men in a handgun fight...and rip the head off a citizen using a rifle at 600 yards...with iron sights. No, she's not a marine. In hand-to-hand combat she is the winner. In edged weapons...well, just give up and get it over with. 

If I'm "in-the-jackpot", I want her with me. To stop us you must kill us. Think Terminator...this should be every cops mindset.

And it should be your mindset through out the hiring process and academy...or do not bother. If you can't give your all to get on the job...I sure as hell don't want you anywhere near me.


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## Killjoy

The whole question of this PAT is an example how people in this country are shifting from an "I must work hard" to "I am owed" attitude. Like many have said, this PAT isn't exactly SEAL BUDS training. ANYONE (male or female) should be able to pass these tests if they aspire to wear the badge. One thing that impressed me about the MSP academy was that men and women must pass this same physical tests and are not graded on a "curve". When I was in the military they graded male and female PT tests on different scales and that led to resentment on the part of the men.


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## ShakeEmDOwn016

When I began to seriously consider getting into LE, I began to work out not only for the potential of having to take that test eventually but just to get in really good shape for my personal well being. I had nobody to give me tips on how to select potential employers, interview well, wear my hair up or down for an interview, pass physical ability tests etc..etc... 
After a few years of taking care of myself by working out alot, it was my time for the PAT. I took it and did not pass because I missed the time by seconds on the obstacle course. The wall was no problem. I decided to change up some things I did at the gym to help me with endurance and basically all I did was day in and day out for months is think about passing that test. My potential career in LE depended on it.I heard other females whining about how "its not fair"!! Never once did I bitch or moan that it is discriminatory towards females. I focused on what I needed to do to get the job I wanted. It was all business. 

I finally passed, bitches. And it was a really awesome feeling to see that my hard work paid off....

That test is given for a reason. The obstacles are placed in the order they are in for a reason. The wall is placed where it is in the sequence of obstacles because that is the point of where one's endurance may be weakest. The PAT will probably NOT be the last place people will have to jump over the wall, as it is often used during PT in the full time academy in a much more difficult obstacle course scenario. 

Now train, take the test and FN pass it.


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## dcs2244

Too right, Killjoy! Unfortunately circumstances in the 'real world' do not tailor themselves to the gender/gender preference/race/creed/color/national origin of the cop.

Women and poofters: you may actually have to pull your 200# partner out of the line of fire...or you could just use his body as cover, much as the calvary troopers did with their dying horses.

Hooray for "Diversity at any cost"...even if the cost is measured in human lives.


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## Tackleberry22

What really gets me is that Cheif Gemme wants to waiver these 6 women through; which, I think I read that correctly in the Sat. paper follow up; is a big mistake. These women failed and should be out of the process. I have no problem with having more women on the force, but they should go through the ENTIRE process like everyone else and pass. So, they don't have any women in this upcoming class. There are always going other classes. And what happens if these women can't hack the academy? Is he going to waive them on through? Will we have to dumb down the academy standerds so they can pass? Be interesting to see how this unfolds.


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## SinePari

Do you think this guy can get over that wall? He's got nothing but time on his hands.​


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## Nachtwächter

http://eastandard.net/images/financial/ftf280605.jpg

Doubt he could do it.


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## LKat20

Bottom line...if you train for it you *can* do it. I have not had the opportunity to take the PAT, so I won't say that I can definitely pass it. But one thing is for sure...I will definitely train for it before I take it. If I can't pass it, then I shouldn't be a cop. Any female who wants to complain about the course being discriminatory needs to come back to reality...why should any male or female cop have to depend on unfit backup. This job isn't about just _*wanting*_ to be a cop...it is about others lives depending on _*YOU*_. I could never argue that the test should be easier because: "I _*want*_ to be a police officer, it isn't fair!!!" Because at the end of it all, I will still be doing the same job as any man, and I would never want to put another cop or a citizen's life in jeopardy because I am not prepared.

Physical training is not only good for the body, it also helps you get in the proper mindset...this being said, training should not stop after the academy either.


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## FSCPD902

"why should any male or female cop have to depend on unfit backup."

RICH!!


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## JoninNH

> "why should any male or female cop have to depend on unfit backup."


Excellent point.


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## HousingCop

Seems to me that the fat bellied slob in this picture looks to be an overseas cop. Probably from South America or Africa. He probably could jump a 5 foot wall easily though. Or shoot over it at least.

I mean it's not the Great Wall Of China we're talking here. It's a 5' wall which your average 8 year old could conquer with relative ease. Never mind a 19 year old felonious gazelle.

How about they add a couple handholds or build a small ladder next to it to help 'em over? Maybe a stepladder or a small dog door so they could wriggle through it too? Then there would be complaints that the "butterhips" are discriminated against as a federally recognized group. 


Nachtwächter said:


> http://eastandard.net/images/financial/ftf280605.jpg
> 
> Doubt he could do it.


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## Guest

I am all for more women on this job...and hope that more make it but if you do the same job you shoud have the same standards! I worked very hard to make sure I passed the PAT the first time I took it!! By lowering standards you minimize what the females who did pass have accomplished! 
As a female on this job you better be able to do it! A criminal will size you up in a second and take advantage of you!! What are you going to do it someone goes over a wall while you are chasing them, stop and say you can't cause you are a girl!! GET IN SHAPE AND GET OVER THE WALL!!! DO NOT lower the standards...expect more from those you choose!


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## FSCPD902

"I mean it's not the Great Wall Of China we're talking here. It's a 5' wall which your average 8 year old could conquer with relative ease." 

Actually the average height for an 8 year old is about 4 feet 3 inches and I doubt anyone that height can negotiate the wall with relative ease, you just might have been thinking about the 13 year old boy you were foddling last night.

I agree with AlyKat48 - work your ass off. If you don't get over, you don't deserve it. Last time I checked wasn't it the Chief of Worcester who was trying to wave the girls who failed it, not the girls bitching themselves.


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## badgebunny

Even if the ladies weren't the ones bitching now you know at some point one or more would.


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## FSCPD902

All I am saying is that you can put it tactfully one way, or you can put it Housing Cops way. I didn't realize he was such an elitist. And by elitist I mean raging dickhead.


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## bbelichick

FSCPD902 said:


> All I am saying is that you can put it tactfully one way, or you can put it Housing Cops way. I didn't realize he was such an elitist. And by elitist I mean raging dickhead.


Tact ? This is a Police Message board. If you're looking for tact, maybe there is a Barbie Forum somewhere.


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## PBC FL Cop

Monday, March 13, 2006 *Final hurdle hardest*

Recruit fails police wall test

*By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
*









Ms. Ayala 







I was devastated. I was stressed. I really wanted to do it, but I just couldn't make the time.









Loyda Ayala,
POLICE APPLICANT

*WORCESTER- *First there was the written test. Then there were background checks.

Loyda Ayala needed to provide references, and recruiters even interviewed her neighbors and past employers.

"It's a big, big application," said Ms. Ayala, 26, a Worcester resident since moving here from Puerto Rico 13 years ago. "It's a very long process." But at the end of the process there was still the physical abilities test.

And after all the other work had been completed, it was a portion of that final test that proved to be the spoiler in Ms. Ayala's quest to be a police officer. "It was devastating," she said.

Ms. Ayala puts a face to the list of women who passed the majority of qualifications to be a police officer, but failed a state-required physical test needed before they can join a training academy, thereby disqualifying their candidacy.

A startling trend shows the majority of the women who have taken the test have failed, raising questions among police leaders that the test could be discriminatory. Ms. Ayala and five other women in a recent Worcester recruit class failed the test.

In Boston, 13 of 17 women in a recent recruit class failed. The statistics are the same in recent years, showing more than 60 percent of the women who take the test fail. More than 95 percent of men pass the test, however, according to results during the last seven months.

The test results come at a time when police chiefs across the state are trying to better diversify their forces by hiring minorities and women. But they're being hampered by a portion of a physical test that Worcester Police Chief Gary J. Gemme said shouldn't be the only qualifier to be a police officer. He and other police leaders have questioned whether the physical test discriminates against women, and have called for a review.

A spokesman for the governor's office said a review of the test will be completed next month. The spokesman, Felix Browne, said the recent complaints did not trigger the review, but they will be considered. The test has been the same since 1999, state officials said. In the initial years, only 30 percent of women failed the test, but that number jumped to more than 60 percent after 2003. No one can explain why the numbers spiked in 2004.

Ms. Ayala had been told about the test: the climbing wall, the stairs and the zig-zags that must be completed within a specific time period. She trained. But she didn't expect what she saw on practice day, two days before the exam. And then she failed the obstacle course, going over time by eight seconds. 

"You can't fix what you have wrong in two days," she said. She attributes the difficulties women have faced to physical traits that are different from men. Many of the women have had difficulty climbing a wall that regulators say is 5 feet tall, but she says is higher. Many of Ms. Ayala's colleagues failed because of that wall, she said. They completed the course, but were seconds beyond deadline.

At 5 feet 8 inches tall, Ms. Ayala considered herself in decent shape. She ran for 20 minutes as part of her training. "I was super-excited. It was something I wanted to do, wanted to experience," she said. "I still want to help people."

One difficulty she had was pulling a heavy bag over a line, a simulation for pulling a suspect away. She trained, and come test time for the re-take she passed. By then her energy was wasted. She had no upper body strength, she said. But she still had more obstacles to complete.

And when she was required to pull the trigger of a gun six times in seven seconds she failed when she tried it with her left hand. She went over by two seconds. The second attempt. The second failure.

"I was devastated. I was stressed. I really wanted to do it, but I just couldn't make the time," she said. Ms. Ayala considered herself a qualified candidate. She's in shape; she's smart. She speaks fluent Spanish.

But she's heartbroken by a test that disqualified her. When she passed all other requirements, she was told she couldn't be a police officer because she failed to pull a trigger enough times within a certain time limit.

Chief Gemme has sought to postpone the recent results of his recruit class, to train the women in his own academy for 24 weeks and work on their handicaps. Then they could take the test again.

He's received no support from the state, he said, but the city administration is expected to file a formal written request.

Ms. Ayala supports the request, not only for herself but all the women in her class - and future candidates.

People are often disqualified because of their backgrounds, or because of their driving history. Those are things that can't be erased from the record, Ms. Ayala said. But she stressed someone could better train for the physical test, improve themselves. If only they were given the opportunity, considering they passed what she estimated to be 90 percent of the remaining qualifications.

"We can work on getting better. Your background will never change; your history will never change," she said, but "at least now we know what it is we need help on."

She said she and her five fellow recruits could have been assets for the city of Worcester.

"We have other things backing us up," she said. "But to say, do this once, and then you're eliminated, I don't think that's fair.

"They did all this stuff (background checks), and just from one test they said, 'Oh, you're not capable.'

"Help me instead of saying, 'You're eliminated.' "


----------



## EOD1

jesus, did any one find that article pathetic?


> One difficulty she had was pulling a heavy bag over a line, a simulation for pulling a suspect away. She trained, and come test time for the re-take she passed. By then her energy was wasted. She had no upper body strength, she said. But she still had more obstacles to complete.
> 
> And when she was required to pull the trigger of a gun six times in seven seconds she failed when she tried it with her left hand. She went over by two seconds. The second attempt. The second failure.
> 
> "I was devastated. I was stressed. I really wanted to do it, but I just couldn't make the time," she said. Ms. Ayala considered herself a qualified candidate. She's in shape; she's smart. She speaks fluent Spanish.


 so she's taking a test for the position of police officer and she can't climb a wall, she can't drag a suspect/unconscious victim and can't pull a trigger? Does she even grasp the scope of the job she's trying to do? she says she wants to help people, hows she gonna help people when the murdering, drug dealing, child raping scum that she is chasing just jumped a damn fence or wall. or when she has to defend a wounded officer and can't squeeze the damn trigger or drag his body out of the line of fire? she won't get a second chance on the street, she'll get some1 killed (I don't call that being in shape like the article says)
and she is upset that the state isn't being more supportive!!?? would they be supportive of me (being a male)? hell no!!!

un friggin real!!


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## SinePari

In shape, smart and speaks Spanish doesn't mean shit in the Great Brook Valley (Worcester). According to the DOJ website, here's how many women offenders there are in the US:

In 1998 there were an estimated 3.2 million arrests of women, accounting for 22% of all arrests that year. 
78% of the time you will encounter and arrest a man, probably bigger than 5 feet tall.


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## OciferpeteHPD3500

Did any one see a special last night on CNN about people fighting cops on traffic stops? One video was taken 02/19/2006 I think it was in Ohio, on a troopers dash cam where a suspect pulled a gun on the trooper. The trooper wrestles with the suspect and falls on top of him. He then has to shoot him in which the suspect is killed. If this lady was in his shoes I think she would of wished she was in better shape. 

You know it is just sad that other people are waiting to get a call and they are holding off on calling other potential candidates because cry baby cant do an obstacle course.


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## USMCTrooper

> a wall that regulators say is 5 feet tall





> At 5 feet 8 inches tall, Ms. Ayala considered herself in decent shape.


Do the math.....this is equal to ONE pull-up with the added benefit of jumping up off the ground for extra height!!



> "I still want to help people."


Become a nurse or social worker. They help people too.


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## bbelichick

PBC FL Cop said:


> A startling trend shows the majority of the women who have taken the test have failed, raising questions among police leaders that the test could be discriminatory.
> 
> At 5 feet 8 inches tall, Ms. Ayala considered herself in decent shape. She ran for 20 minutes as part of her training.


Yes, it IS discriminatory. It is biased against people in bad shape.

20 f-ing minutes? You have to be kidding me. I was running 5-6 miles a day MINIMUM before my Academy. 20 minutes? At what pace?

The REAL story here should be "Most women don't take the test as seriously as most men do." If they did, they would pass.


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## USMCTrooper

> He and other police leaders have questioned whether the physical test discriminates against women, and have called for a review.


Results of the review are in....the new female approved police obstacle course: You have 12 minutes to complete it.


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## tarc

I've said it before and I'll say it again, sorry Ms. Ayala, but maybe you can use your spanish skills teaching school or answering a telephone. I'm glad they told you "you're eliminated" in this portion of the testing, rather than having some shi*bag take your gun from you and then tell you "you're eliminated." If you or anybody else can't pass a basic skills test, then you shouldn't be cops. They don't let doctors become doctors or lawyers become lawyers if they fail their tests/training. This is a profession and it/we should all be held to a professional standard.


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## Bravo2-7

The big thing for me is, and anyone that has taken it, passed it, and got on the job knows. Is that the PAT, in comparison to most of the physical stuff in the academy is a cakewalk. The fact that I was able to pass it, really in no way proved that I was in shape for the academy. 


Oh and by the way, the female that I mentioned in an earlier post describing what she did to pass the PAT. I forgot to mention: 

Obstacle- 5 foot wall 

She's 4'11"


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## Irish Wampanoag

USMCTrooper said:


> Results of the review are in....the new female approved police obstacle course: You have 12 minutes to complete it.


BAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!


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## Irish Wampanoag

bbelichick said:


> Yes, it IS discriminatory. It is biased against people in bad shape.
> 
> 20 f-ing minutes? You have to be kidding me. I was running 5-6 miles a day MINIMUM before my Academy. 20 minutes? At what pace?
> 
> The REAL story here should be "Most women don't take the test as seriously as most men do." If they did, they would pass.


Dito

I will admit I am not a great lond distance runner eventhough in the academy SSPO (10 weeks) we finished with a run of 10 miles in 90minutes

I made up for it in strenght training and sprint running which I love and has been useful in my career!!!!


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## HousingCop

Oh please FSCPD902,
Get off your high horse and jump over that 5 foot wall will ya? Or have you had that experience yet? Obviously you've never seen an 8 year old child on a playground scaling walls, jumping fences or basically doing the excercise regimine these women won't or CAN'T do. Drop the Bon Bons & turn off the Oxygen channel & hit the gym instead. 
As for fondeling little boys, I'll leave that to Sgt O'Hare.

I'd definately wouldn't want you for back up in a fight situation. You're only good for screaming into your mic for help while your partner chases the criminal and possibly gets his ass whooped. You're probably more of a liability to your partner than anything else. Not only does he have to protect his gun from being stripped from his holster, he has to keep an eye out so you don't lose yours in the struggle as well.

I was trying to keep this civil before you opened up your pie-hole and made a mockery of yourself and your profession. Grow up and tell all your fat girlfriends that the test is gender biased and that they should sue the state & the MPTC if ever given the chance to take the PAT.

Bottom line, quit bitching and do the PAT correctly within the alloted time. Stop asking to have the test DUMBED DOWN again. Period.



FSCPD902 said:


> "I mean it's not the Great Wall Of China we're talking here. It's a 5' wall which your average 8 year old could conquer with relative ease."
> 
> Actually the average height for an 8 year old is about 4 feet 3 inches and I doubt anyone that height can negotiate the wall with relative ease, you just might have been thinking about the 13 year old boy you were foddling last night.
> 
> I agree with AlyKat48 - work your ass off. If you don't get over, you don't deserve it. Last time I checked wasn't it the Chief of Worcester who was trying to wave the girls who failed it, not the girls bitching themselves.


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## FSCPD902

First of all...I never said that the PAT should be dumbed down. I clearly said if you can't hack it then you shouldn't be allowed to continue to the academy. I go to the gym everyday ...and I am going to get over that GD wall next week during my PAT test - I'm not even worried about it because I have trained properly... I am just sick of you insulting women, yeah there are some like the Ms. Ayala asshole who think it is gender biased...I, on the other hand, do not and never have. 

I have handled myself fine in the last 3 1/2 years and I will continue to do so after I finish the academy in 6 months. 

BTW- I dont like Bon Bons and I hate Oprah


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## j809

The test is retarted. It doesn't measure crap and once in the academy you are doing the cooper test the second day there. For example, you have to pull the trigger six times with your left hand and then six times with your right hand in something like 6 seconds. First of all, who the hell is still using revolvers. And another thing is that a 19 year old or a 50 year old have to do course in the same time limit, the Cooper test is gradual for different age groups. This test is stupid and measures nothing, but then again the State HRD picked it, so they must know what they are doing.P:


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## FSCPD902

USMCMP5811 said:


> Here's what it comes down to:
> 
> A wise man once said, " If you fail to train, You train to fail"
> 
> So, if anyone fails the PAT, they failed to train.
> 
> Nuff siad. :cussing:


AGREED!! Finally


----------



## LKat20

HousingCop said:


> Oh please FSCPD902,
> Get off your high horse and jump over that 5 foot wall will ya? Or have you had that experience yet? Obviously you've never seen an 8 year old child on a playground scaling walls, jumping fences or basically doing the excercise regimine these women won't or CAN'T do. Drop the Bon Bons & turn off the Oxygen channel & hit the gym instead.
> As for fondeling little boys, I'll leave that to Sgt O'Hare.
> 
> I'd definately wouldn't want you for back up in a fight situation. You're only good for screaming into your mic for help while your partner chases the criminal and possibly gets his ass whooped. You're probably more of a liability to your partner than anything else. Not only does he have to protect his gun from being stripped from his holster, he has to keep an eye out so you don't lose yours in the struggle as well.
> 
> I was trying to keep this civil before you opened up your pie-hole and made a mockery of yourself and your profession. Grow up and tell all your fat girlfriends that the test is gender biased and that they should sue the state & the MPTC if ever given the chance to take the PAT.
> 
> Bottom line, quit bitching and do the PAT correctly within the alloted time. Stop asking to have the test DUMBED DOWN again. Period.


WOAH WOAH WOAH&#8230;Settle down now! I have kept it shut for long enough. For your information, I happen to know FSCPD902 and she is in incredible shape; in fact, I am willing to bet that she is in better shape than you, both mentally and physically. *(She completed the 16 week SSPO Academy, which we all know is much more physically demanding than any municipal academy&#8230;and she was the recipient of her academy class Physical Fitness Award.)* Furthermore, she and I have discussed this topic at length outside of this b*tch fest, and she and I have the same opinion, if you get in shape for it, you can pass it; the test should not be made easier. The problem that she saw here is that this forum quickly turned to bashing women - now, I am the LEAST FEMINIST person you could ever know - but there are a lot of women out there that DID work hard to pass this test&#8230;and you all should show respect for those that did, rather than stating that women "don't take it seriously" or that they should climb over a moonwalk and call it a day. And Housing Cop, as for your erroneous assumptions, maybe YOUR FAT GIRLFRIEND would be interested.

Not all women think that the test should be made easier&#8230;just the ones that shouldn't be cops.


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## bbelichick

LKat20 said:


> rather than stating that women "don't take it seriously"


If 8% of women pass it and 60+% of men, I would think that a safe assumption is that MOST women don't take it seriously.

The only other theory is that women just can't physically do the test, which I am sure is BS.


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## fscpd907

*I'd definitely wouldn't want you for back up in a fight situation. You're only good for screaming into your mic for help while your partner chases the criminal and possibly gets his ass whooped. You're probably more of a liability to your partner than anything else. Not only does he have to protect his gun from being stripped from his holster, he has to keep an eye out so you don't lose yours in the struggle as well.*

Not only did she (fscpd902) receive the Physical Fitness Award but she also broke numerous long standing SSPO P/T records while attending Camp New Braintree.


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## ShakeEmDOwn016

LKAT, 

You make a generalization that "WE ALL KNOW" that the SSPO is "more physically demanding" than any MPOC. 

My question is to you ... Have you been a recruit in one or the other ?


Overall, I think the discussion about this topic has gotten a little bit out of hand.


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## dcs2244

ShakeEmDOwn016 said:


> LKAT,
> 
> You make a generalization that "WE ALL KNOW" that the SSPO is "more physically demanding" than any MPOC.


I think LKat20 was being facetious. It was HUMOR. At least that's the way I took it. We can all talk about how "hard" our academies were, but it is of no moment: those who passed are on the job, and those that didn't are "carrying hod".

Relax...I think we all agree that "can't" means "won't"...and for those person's that really "can't"...they do not belong on the job, regardless "race, creed, blah...blah...blah...".


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## LKat20

Ok...to set the record straight...I have not been to either academy...BUT...I know people that have been to both and they have told me that the SSPO Academy is more difficult physically. If someone is offended by this...I apologize. My only point was that FSCPD902 is a very fit person and has completed a very difficult academy where she even won awards for her physical fitness. 


And just in case no one else has noticed...we all agree here: The test should not be made easier and those people who train for it will pass, while those that don't won't pass. Is there really anything else to say?


----------



## dcs2244

No there isn't anything more to say...except that perhaps you should experience the academy first hand before you post a "difficulty" assessment...your information amounts to hearsay... everybody went to the most difficult academy...and they are all cops...so in my opinion, everyone can stop the "mine's-better-than-yours, I've-won-more-awards-and-broken-more-records-than-you" bull hockey.

FSCPD902 had the humility to not self promote...and is worthy of respect for that. We have devolved into a sewer of "male chauvinists" versus "feminazis". There is no reason for this other than misunderstanding through miscommunication

We are the police. No more, no less. If a citizen can do the job...fine. If not, I do not want them around me. The subject of the article believes she should not be disqualified because she did great on all other aspects of the screening process. Well, police work is brutal and dangerous. If a citizen cannot hack the basics...how will they fare in "real life" where things are way more unpredictable? "Do or Do Not...there is no try..." Yoda (or words to that effect.).


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## Guest

LKat20 said:


> Ok...to set the record straight...I have not been to either academy...BUT...I know people that have been to both and they have told me that the SSPO Academy is more difficult physically.


That's way too broad of a generalization, since there are so many municipal academies, all with different ways of doing things. Unless your friends have been to every municipal academy there is, they can't make that comparison.


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## Bravo2-7

LKat20 said:


> And just in case no one else has noticed...we all agree here: The test should not be made easier and those people who train for it will pass, while those that don't won't pass. Is there really anything else to say?


And that my friends.....sums all our points up nicely.


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## HousingCop

FSCPD,

I wish you luck next week at your PAT test. From what others have said, you are in fine physical condition and mental condition as well. I on the other hand may be considered damaged goods in the latter but that's a subject for another thread. 

Others in here like to think that their academy was more physically or mentally challenging than another and I agree. Some are easier than others. From what I hear the old U-Mass MCJTC was a cake walk compared to the MBTA academy horror stories I have heard. This may be so but unless we've attended them all, it's all hearsey and embelishment. 

The real test is out in the street. You'll find out quick enough if you pass that test or not. Out in the streets, the 5 foot wall may be an 8 foot chain link fence or a 6 foot fence with a railing to support your foot. Either way, if the PAT or a 5 foot wall poses that much of a challenge or risk, you shouldn't be a cop, PERIOD.


----------



## Guest

HousingCop said:


> The real test is out in the street. You'll find out quick enough if you pass that test or not.


In the end, that's all that matters.

Some think that the academy graduation is the end of a testing period, when in fact, it's just the beginning.


----------



## NorwichAlum

*Female recruits hitting the wall
*By *Theresa Freeman*/ Metrowest Daily News
Boston Herald, Saturday, March 18, 2006

*F*rustrated would-be female police officers say the state's obstacle course for new recruits is running them out of any shot at a job. 
An Iraq war veteran is among the 62 percent of women who have failed the test. She called an imposing 5-foot wall at the end of the course a barrier to a better life back home. 
"It was really disappointing," said Dawn Horrigan of Framingham, who failed the test twice. 
The Massachusetts Association of Women in Law Enforcement and the Boston and Worcester police departments have complained to state officials, saying the physical abilities test, required for all police recruits, may not offer a level playing field for men and women. 
Statewide, 127 of the 206 women, or nearly 62 percent, who have taken the test in the past 14 months have failed. In 2005, only 85 of the 835 men who took the test, or 10.2 percent, did not pass, according to the Human Resources Division. 
The state Human Resources Division is planning to issue a public request for responses next month about the physical abilities test, said spokesman Felix Browne. 
"Prior to recent complaints, the division had planned a review of the test, which is a precursor to the police academy, much like the SAT is for colleges," Browne said. 
Even women who have made it over the wall and through the course in the 103.4-second time limit say it's a killer. 
"It's the hardest thing. A lot of females fail because of the wall," said Ashland police officer Luann Tomaso, who added that she practiced on a 6-foot wall to make sure she passed.


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## JoninNH

> "It was really disappointing," said Dawn Horrigan of Framingham, who failed the test twice.


No, what's disappointing is that an Iraq war vet couldn't pass the PAT.



> "It's the hardest thing. A lot of females fail because of the wall," said Ashland police officer Luann Tomaso, who added that _*she practiced on a 6-foot wall to make sure she passed.*_


There ya go!!! She didn't bitch and complain, call the press and her senator, she PRACTICED to ENSURE SHE PASSED!!!!


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## SinePari

NorwichAlum said:


> An Iraq war veteran is among the 62 percent of women who have failed the test. She called an imposing 5-foot wall at the end of the course a barrier to a better life back home.
> "It was really disappointing," said Dawn Horrigan of Framingham, who failed the test twice.


I wonder if she participated in the traditional "Confidence Course" in boot camp, or the scaled back, fuzzy-bunny, co-ed, everthing is optional because people complained boot camp.


----------



## EOD1

SinePari said:


> everthing is optional because people complained boot camp.


not for us it wasn't. but i didn't go to a co-ed bootcamp.


----------



## SinePari

*Hitting the wall proves stressful for police trainees*

5-foot barrier biggest obstacle for women
*By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
*









Jessica Cortes, left, a Worcester police officer, is one of the training staff members assigned to help new academy recruits.

*WORCESTER- *When police officer Jessica Cortes was transferred to the Training Academy, she knew her mission. Help the trainees. Build their confidence. Give them advice.

But soon, she found herself giving the same advice to the women recruits that had triggered negative thoughts in her own mind when she herself was a recruit. Watch out for the wall on the obstacle course, people told her. It's the toughest thing for women. The warning caused her to stress. And yet she found herself relaying the same message to the nervous recruits.

"I became one of those people having to tell the next generation, 'Watch out for the wall,' " Officer Cortes said. 

Now, after women in Worcester's newest recruit class told her they had failed, and that they'd had trouble with the wall, she wonders whether her advice had anything to do with it.

"I knew how they felt because I was right there with them," said Officer Cortes, who has been an officer for two years. "I hated the wall.

"It's frustrating to know you have a disadvantage from the beginning."

The wall in the state Civil Service physical abilities test, said to be 5 feet tall, has proven to be a key factor in eliminating female candidates from becoming police officers. To become a police officer, applicants must first pass the Civil Service test, including an exam and background checks and the physical test, before entering an academy.

But while hundreds of women are passing most of the requirements, a growing majority of them are failing the obstacle course, even after two tries. The wall requirement has raised concerns the course is discriminatory against women.

Police leaders from Worcester to Boston say they are trying to diversify their departments with more women officers, but face obstacles because of that physical course. Their concerns have caught the interest of state Sen. Edward M. Augustus Jr., D-Worcester, who is calling for a review of the exam. He said state Sen. Stephen M. Brewer, D-Barre, vice chairman of the Joint Committee on Public Safety, has agreed to co-sign the letter, and he is seeking support from other senators on the public safety committee.

"It only makes sense that they periodically take a step back and say, 'Why are we losing women because of this thing?' " Mr. Augustus said.

"I don't want any lowering of standards, or different standards. But if you see almost doubling of the number of female candidates washing out, there's something wrong there," he said.

In Worcester, six women in a recent class were disqualified after two of them dropped out because of the test, and four failed after two attempts. In Boston, 11 of 23 women in the newest recruit class failed after two attempts, said Elaine Driscoll, a Boston police spokeswoman.

The results mirror statewide statistics compiled over the last several years. From July 1to Feb. 28, 64 percent of the 110 women who took the test failed. In the 2004 calendar year, 60.5 percent of 172 women failed.

Those numbers show a sharp increase from the results from 2001 to 2003, when an average of 36 percent of women failed each year. Officials cannot explain the dramatic increase in the number of failures. The test was created in 1999, according to state officials.

A state official said test administrators will review the exam next month, and possibly will make changes. He said the review is not a result of the recent complaints, but they will be considered.

The recent uproar over the statistics has caused a split between men and women in law enforcement, and between women who have passed and those who have not. Chat rooms on police Web sites show anonymous writers complaining anyone wanting to become a police officer should be able to pass the physical test, which includes the obstacle course and other scenarios that play out real-life scenes including one requiring a candidate to drag a weighted dummy over a line within a set amount of time.

"I don't care if they are male, female, black, white, purple, I want the best candidates for the job &#8230; to work with me," one writer said on www.masscops.com.

One woman, who described herself as a sergeant in a Massachusetts town, said she has completed the test four times with no problems, including helping to test it when it was created. Anyone looking to become a police officer should be able to do the same, she said.

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous that these under-qualified females are getting so many chances at a job that only allows one chance on the street," the woman wrote.

Those questioning the test mostly agree, but stress their concern is the wall. And for them, any statistic is startling when it shows that the majority of women who take the test fail.

"I wouldn't be advocating for them if I didn't think they were physically fit," said Worcester Police Chief Gary J. Gemme, who has led the call for a review of the test.

Officer Cortes passed in her attempt two years ago, but she stresses the wall is an obstacle that could be discriminatory, saying she had problems, too. She says there's a physical characteristic that gives women a disadvantage, because they have less upper-body strength, and climbing the wall requires you pull yourself over it using your arms.

She isn't advocating for a new test, or different standards, she said, but the wall should be reconsidered. Perhaps it can be moved to the beginning of the test when candidates are fresh.

Officer Cortes said there has to be an issue when the first word of advice for female applicants is, "Watch out for the wall," especially when the advice for men is "You can do it, no problem."

"Make a combination where we're on the same playing field," she said.

One female police officer from a Massachusetts town, who asked that her name and department not be used, has worked with other officers to help train women who have failed. She has a replica of the wall at her home, and helps train recruits with running and jumping-rope exercises before tackling the wall. Many women she knows have failed, she said, including those who had friends build the wall at the officer's house.

Still, the officer said, women should not "dumb-down" the test by appealing it, saying it is "tough enough to get acceptance in a mostly male profession, never mind getting on after getting a waiver for a test."

She said the ones who are failing are not training properly.

"I am the only woman on my department," the woman said in an e-mail message. "If I had not been able to hold my own physically, both in the academy and maintaining it in real life, I would never have gained respect and equality."

She points out cases in which women officers are assaulted by criminals. If trained properly, they can serve as good officers, she said. She noted a Medfield incident in which a female officer who is under 5 feet tall and weighs less than 100 pounds tracked down a 6-foot-plus suspect, tackled him and took him into custody.

"The (test) is part of the screening process, maybe it is doing its job," the officer said. "I am on the side of the women, and will train with anyone, but do not make excuses and attempt to change the system; it will be your downfall."

Worcester police Officer Jessica Balsavich said she understood concerns with the wall. She had difficulty with it two years ago, too, failing in her first attempt.

Still, she said, the physical test for men and women should be equal, adding that the test does not match what cadets will go through during the 24-week academy. They should practice, just as she did to pass on her second attempt.

"You have to tell yourself, 'If you want this job enough, you can get over it,' " Officer Balsavich said. "You have to be prepared to go into the academy, whether there is a physical test or not."

But at the same time, she did say the statistics raise questions, particularly with the wall. When she was a recruit, those who gave her advice also mentioned the wall. "That's the first thing they said," she noted. "I can understand where people are coming from. The whole time I was doing it, I was thinking about the wall."Millbury Police Officer Andrea Warpula practiced for the wall by turning her loveseat upward and jumping on it. She passed the test twice, first when applying to be a police officer at UMass Memorial Medical Center - University Campus, and again when she joined the Millbury force. Each time, however, she passed on the second attempt.

Officer Warpula took issue with the requirement that she pass a second time when she joined the Millbury force. She had had breast surgery after taking the first exam to remedy muscles that are susceptible in a family history of breast cancer, she said. She knew the difficulties she faced with the wall, the upper body strength she needed, and was terrified at the thought of having to do it again after the surgery.

"The horrific wall," she said.

Never in her six years on the job has she found herself in a similar real-life scenario, she noted, and questioned why she should have to jump a wall that is straight, with no place to dig your feet in. She questioned if such a wall exists in the natural world. If anything, the wall should be a fence. If necessary, make it 6 feet or 7 feet tall, she said. At least it would be more realistic.

While she was able to pass the test, her training caused bruising on her arms and elbows, when she would plant her upper body on the top of the wall and wiggle herself over. While she agrees the test should include the dummy drag and another part that simulates putting handcuffs on someone, she questions why it includes the wall. Never has she encountered one on the job, she said, and wonders how many officers have. "The rest of the test is job-realistic, but the wall is not," she said. "It's just, you can't get a hold of it. I can get into the best of it. I don't have trouble holding my own, but I've never seen a wall like that."

Chief Gemme said his academy would actually discourage an officer from jumping blindly over a wall, and he urges officers to use caution when going through windows. He questions how many officers have done either in their careers on the streets. Still, both scenarios are in the obstacle course, leaving the chief to question how the test actually assesses potential officers.

There are no women in the new Worcester recruit class. But still, three of the men who passed the test have already dropped out of the training program, which is still in its first week.

"That obstacle course didn't do one thing to help us identify candidates that are in it for the long haul," the chief said. "All it showed us was the average physically fit male could pass the test."


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## SinePari

Just like the stat that says the majority of LEOs will never discharge their weapon in the line of duty...so let's get rid of firearms training also.:roll:


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## Guest

SinePari said:


> Chief Gemme said his academy would actually discourage an officer from jumping blindly over a wall, and he urges officers to use caution when going through windows. He questions how many officers have done either in their careers on the streets.


Is that guy for real?


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## EOD1

SinePari said:


> Do you think this guy can get over that wall? He's got nothing but time on his hands.​


this guy to:


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## JoninNH

SinePari said:


> Just like the stat that says the majority of LEOs will never discharge their weapon in the line of duty...so let's get rid of firearms training also.:roll:


Oh please, let's not give the liberals any more ideas!!!


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## JoninNH

> "I don't want any lowering of standards, or different standards. But if you see almost doubling of the number of female candidates washing out, there's something wrong there," he said.


Yeah, it's because the candidates ARE NOT PREPARING THEMSELVES!!!!



> "I don't care if they are male, female, black, white, purple, I want the best candidates for the job &#8230; to work with me," one writer said on www.masscops.com.


Wow Gil! Now you're website has been featured in the Telegram and Gazette!
Good for you!!! (I think...)


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## badgebunny

JoninNH said:


> Yeah, it's because the candidates ARE NOT PREPARING THEMSELVES!!!!
> 
> Absolutely Jon!!! Like I said before start training ladies!!! I resent the fact that some people think the standards should be lower for females. Just because I am a female does not mean that I can not do something. Regardless of what it is, I am going to do whatever it takes to make sure I can do it! If I have to work harder at something (i.e. pulling myself over a wall) then hell yeah I am going to make sure that I bust my ass and make sure I get over that wall! If you aren't training before the PAT and training hard then don't blame anyone but yourself! Stop making excuses and start training!


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## policelaborlaw.com

*Hitting the wall proves stressful for police trainees*

*5-foot barrier biggest obstacle for women*

*By Milton J. Valencia TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF*

*WORCESTER**- *When police officer Jessica Cortes was transferred to the Training Academy, she knew her mission. Help the trainees. Build their confidence. Give them advice. 

But soon, she found herself giving the same advice to the women recruits that had triggered negative thoughts in her own mind when she herself was a recruit. Watch out for the wall on the obstacle course, people told her. It's the toughest thing for women. The warning caused her to stress. And yet she found herself relaying the same message to the nervous recruits.

"I became one of those people having to tell the next generation, 'Watch out for the wall,' " Officer Cortes said. 

Now, after women in Worcester's newest recruit class told her they had failed, and that they'd had trouble with the wall, she wonders whether her advice had anything to do with it. 

"I knew how they felt because I was right there with them," said Officer Cortes, who has been an officer for two years. "I hated the wall.

"It's frustrating to know you have a disadvantage from the beginning."

The wall in the state Civil Service physical abilities test, said to be 5 feet tall, has proven to be a key factor in eliminating female candidates from becoming police officers. To become a police officer, applicants must first pass the Civil Service test, including an exam and background checks and the physical test, before entering an academy.

But while hundreds of women are passing most of the requirements, a growing majority of them are failing the obstacle course, even after two tries. The wall requirement has raised concerns the course is discriminatory against women.

Police leaders from Worcester to Boston say they are trying to diversify their departments with more women officers, but face obstacles because of that physical course. Their concerns have caught the interest of state Sen. Edward M. Augustus Jr., D-Worcester, who is calling for a review of the exam. He said state Sen. Stephen M. Brewer, D-Barre, vice chairman of the Joint Committee on Public Safety, has agreed to co-sign the letter, and he is seeking support from other senators on the public safety committee. 

"It only makes sense that they periodically take a step back and say, 'Why are we losing women because of this thing?' " Mr. Augustus said.

"I don't want any lowering of standards, or different standards. But if you see almost doubling of the number of female candidates washing out, there's something wrong there," he said.

In Worcester, six women in a recent class were disqualified after two of them dropped out because of the test, and four failed after two attempts. In Boston, 11 of 23 women in the newest recruit class failed after two attempts, said Elaine Driscoll, a Boston police spokeswoman. 

The results mirror statewide statistics compiled over the last several years. From July 1to Feb. 28, 64 percent of the 110 women who took the test failed. In the 2004 calendar year, 60.5 percent of 172 women failed. 

Those numbers show a sharp increase from the results from 2001 to 2003, when an average of 36 percent of women failed each year. Officials cannot explain the dramatic increase in the number of failures. The test was created in 1999, according to state officials.

A state official said test administrators will review the exam next month, and possibly will make changes. He said the review is not a result of the recent complaints, but they will be considered.

The recent uproar over the statistics has caused a split between men and women in law enforcement, and between women who have passed and those who have not. Chat rooms on police Web sites show anonymous writers complaining anyone wanting to become a police officer should be able to pass the physical test, which includes the obstacle course and other scenarios that play out real-life scenes including one requiring a candidate to drag a weighted dummy over a line within a set amount of time.

"I don't care if they are male, female, black, white, purple, I want the best candidates for the job &#8230; to work with me," one writer said on www.masscops.com.

One woman, who described herself as a sergeant in a Massachusetts town, said she has completed the test four times with no problems, including helping to test it when it was created. Anyone looking to become a police officer should be able to do the same, she said. 

"I think it's absolutely ridiculous that these under-qualified females are getting so many chances at a job that only allows one chance on the street," the woman wrote.

Those questioning the test mostly agree, but stress their concern is the wall. And for them, any statistic is startling when it shows that the majority of women who take the test fail.

"I wouldn't be advocating for them if I didn't think they were physically fit," said Worcester Police Chief Gary J. Gemme, who has led the call for a review of the test.

Officer Cortes passed in her attempt two years ago, but she stresses the wall is an obstacle that could be discriminatory, saying she had problems, too. She says there's a physical characteristic that gives women a disadvantage, because they have less upper-body strength, and climbing the wall requires you pull yourself over it using your arms.

She isn't advocating for a new test, or different standards, she said, but the wall should be reconsidered. Perhaps it can be moved to the beginning of the test when candidates are fresh.

Officer Cortes said there has to be an issue when the first word of advice for female applicants is, "Watch out for the wall," especially when the advice for men is "You can do it, no problem."

"Make a combination where we're on the same playing field," she said.

One female police officer from a Massachusetts town, who asked that her name and department not be used, has worked with other officers to help train women who have failed. She has a replica of the wall at her home, and helps train recruits with running and jumping-rope exercises before tackling the wall. Many women she knows have failed, she said, including those who had friends build the wall at the officer's house. 

Still, the officer said, women should not "dumb-down" the test by appealing it, saying it is "tough enough to get acceptance in a mostly male profession, never mind getting on after getting a waiver for a test."

She said the ones who are failing are not training properly.

"I am the only woman on my department," the woman said in an e-mail message. "If I had not been able to hold my own physically, both in the academy and maintaining it in real life, I would never have gained respect and equality."

She points out cases in which women officers are assaulted by criminals. If trained properly, they can serve as good officers, she said. She noted a Medfield incident in which a female officer who is under 5 feet tall and weighs less than 100 pounds tracked down a 6-foot-plus suspect, tackled him and took him into custody.

"The (test) is part of the screening process, maybe it is doing its job," the officer said. "I am on the side of the women, and will train with anyone, but do not make excuses and attempt to change the system; it will be your downfall."

Worcester police Officer Jessica Balsavich said she understood concerns with the wall. She had difficulty with it two years ago, too, failing in her first attempt. 

Still, she said, the physical test for men and women should be equal, adding that the test does not match what cadets will go through during the 24-week academy. They should practice, just as she did to pass on her second attempt.

"You have to tell yourself, 'If you want this job enough, you can get over it,' " Officer Balsavich said. "You have to be prepared to go into the academy, whether there is a physical test or not."

But at the same time, she did say the statistics raise questions, particularly with the wall. When she was a recruit, those who gave her advice also mentioned the wall. "That's the first thing they said," she noted. "I can understand where people are coming from. The whole time I was doing it, I was thinking about the wall."Millbury Police Officer Andrea Warpula practiced for the wall by turning her loveseat upward and jumping on it. She passed the test twice, first when applying to be a police officer at UMass Memorial Medical Center - University Campus, and again when she joined the Millbury force. Each time, however, she passed on the second attempt. 

Officer Warpula took issue with the requirement that she pass a second time when she joined the Millbury force. She had had breast surgery after taking the first exam to remedy muscles that are susceptible in a family history of breast cancer, she said. She knew the difficulties she faced with the wall, the upper body strength she needed, and was terrified at the thought of having to do it again after the surgery.

"The horrific wall," she said.

Never in her six years on the job has she found herself in a similar real-life scenario, she noted, and questioned why she should have to jump a wall that is straight, with no place to dig your feet in. She questioned if such a wall exists in the natural world. If anything, the wall should be a fence. If necessary, make it 6 feet or 7 feet tall, she said. At least it would be more realistic.

While she was able to pass the test, her training caused bruising on her arms and elbows, when she would plant her upper body on the top of the wall and wiggle herself over. While she agrees the test should include the dummy drag and another part that simulates putting handcuffs on someone, she questions why it includes the wall. Never has she encountered one on the job, she said, and wonders how many officers have. "The rest of the test is job-realistic, but the wall is not," she said. "It's just, you can't get a hold of it. I can get into the best of it. I don't have trouble holding my own, but I've never seen a wall like that."

Chief Gemme said his academy would actually discourage an officer from jumping blindly over a wall, and he urges officers to use caution when going through windows. He questions how many officers have done either in their careers on the streets. Still, both scenarios are in the obstacle course, leaving the chief to question how the test actually assesses potential officers.

There are no women in the new Worcester recruit class. But still, three of the men who passed the test have already dropped out of the training program, which is still in its first week. 

"That obstacle course didn't do one thing to help us identify candidates that are in it for the long haul," the chief said. "All it showed us was the average physically fit male could pass the test."


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## HousingCop

......... said Officer Cortes, who has been an officer for two years

Gee, 2 years on the job and already at a coveted academy slot. I bet she can teach these recruits a whole lot from all that street experience she's gained.


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## JoninNH

> "That obstacle course didn't do one thing to help us identify candidates that are in it for the long haul," the chief said. "All it showed us was the average physically fit male could pass the test."


Exactly.


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## mpd61

HousingCop said:


> ......... said Officer Cortes, who has been an officer for two years
> 
> Gee, 2 years on the job and already at a coveted academy slot. I bet she can teach these recruits a whole lot from all that street experience she's gained.


Edward, you're just being jealous............now cut it out right now!
:wink:


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## Guest

mpd61 said:


> Edward, you're just being jealous............now cut it out right now


He's also right. Teaching at the academy after 2 years? That's beyond a farce.


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## dcs2244

HousingCop said:


> ......... said Officer Cortes, who has been an officer for two years
> 
> Gee, 2 years on the job and already at a coveted academy slot. I bet she can teach these recruits a whole lot from all that street experience she's gained.


Exactly right.

Well, it's 'walls' now...what next? A 'glass ceiling'? :-&


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## HousingCop

OK OK OK. Let's just say that Officer Cortes is eminently qualified to teach at the Police Academy. 

1) Cop for 2 years
2) 4-5 months of those 2 years was spent in the very same faciltity she now teaches at.
3) 4 months training with an FTO gaining street experience.
4) Taking into account her 1 week vacation, couple of personal days and maybe an average of 4 sick days, regular days of etc......

How much actual time do you think she has in the streets? Math is not my strong suit here but you get the picture. Got to hand it to her though, she did get over the "....dreaded 5 foot Wall Of China" and passed the academy & my hat's off to her there. Let's just hope she's not teaching "Street Survival" classes in there. As I have stated in the past & will do so again.
Those Who Can..... Do.
Those Who Can't...... Teach.
Those Who Can't Teach...... Teach In The Police Academy.


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## Guest

Any female who's taken the test can relate.


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## HousingCop

femmefatale508 said:


> Any female who's taken the test can relate.


As can any male who has also taken the exact same PAT test.

Can anybody explain to me why more percentage of women are failing this test within the last 2 years? I am not trying to knock women who legitimately deserve the job because of their C.S. test score and their PAT score. I only want a balanced & level playing field for all.


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## Guest

We may take the same test but our bodies are built differently. I am in shape and I practiced in my backyard for hours, climbed over and over my wall and my wall was 5'6". I am 5'. I was more able to grip my feet on my wall than on the wall in Hudson. It was slippery and it was about 4 inches taller than me. Tell me how a 250 pd male can pass the wall without ever practicing and a majority of females who I am sure practice because I know if I have to do a test obviously I am going to prepare myself. The only reason why men pass is because they have more upper body strength. Put me on the street with any male/female and I would probably be the first one to help.


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## JoninNH

The state has decided that being able to climb over a five foot wall is the bare minimum requirement of physical fitness for a potential police officer, regardless of gender.

Out on the street you're going to be expected to accomplish some physical tasks that will push your body to the limits.

If you are persuing a suspect and he elects to hop a five foot wall, he's not going to look behind him, say, "Gee, there's a female cop, I better level the playing field here and not hop the fence." He is concerned with one thing and one thing only... escape.

Allow me to quote, of all places, the National Women's Law Center, in relative to physical fitness tests in the military...



> Not all women can physically perform all jobs, but neither can all men. The ones who can, regardless of gender, will qualify for the occupational speciality. --*Statement of Nancy Duff Campbell, Co-President National Women's Law Center, Before the Subcommittee on Personnel, Committee on Armed Services U.S. Senate on Gender-Integrated Training*​​


It goes on to say, " Finally, the gap between the physical fitness test standards for men and women has been closing in recent years, and with the increasing physical fitness of women due to greater participation in sports in elementary and high schools, is expected to continue to close." That means that the standards are getting more stringant for women, that the minimum requirements for women are getting closer to those for men... =D>


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## HousingCop

Believe me, I know lots of very qualified female P.O.'s who can handle themselves in any type of situations, either with a male or female suspect. I also know some female P.O.'s who if somebody sneezes in their general direction, they'd be blown back a few feet. One such recruit spent over 40 days at Moon Island AFTER graduation trying to qualify with a 9MM. Now that she's been issued a .40 cal, it's probably still going to fire once & stovepipe like it did thousands of times at the range. Do you think that's fair to other P.O.'s on the street?

Again, not knocking, just explaining facts as they are presented to me. Don't kill the messenger here. Only delivering information vital to the thread.


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## chief801

My theory on the more recent increase in failures is the lenght of time that has passed since doing away with the Cooper Standards pre-screen. To pass the Cooper Test, you had to be in much better shape than you have to be in to pass the current P.A.T. People waiting on lists had been preparing for a tougher entrance standard. Those people came on and passed the P.A.T. easily. It is widely known that the P.A.T. is easier, so preparation went down. 

The P.A.T. was chosen over the Cooper Test after job task analysis was done. At the time, it was determined that the things tested in the P.A.T. were more relevent because the majority of the people on the job, after a few years, couldn't pass the Cooper Standards and there was talk of implementing in-service P.T.tests. Let's get the story straight folks. The current "easy" P.A.T. is a direct result of us already on the job letting ourselves go, and the stink that the unions would have made if in-service cops were made to take the Cooper Test. It was determined that getting over that 5' wall was a relevant measure of the ability to perform as a police officer, regardless of gender.

Granted, women have less upper body strength than men. The test isn't measuring a womens upper body strength against that of a man. It's measuring an individuals ability to pull their own body weight. I don't see failing this test a a big threat to MY safety. These applicants should be more concerned with their ability to save their own ass should they need to pull themselves out of danger. I would also argue that in addition to upper body conditioning, the applicants should focus more on lower body and core strength. Here's a tip...increase your ab strenth and verticle leap. If you can jump up higher onto the wall, you decrease the distance you have to pull your weight up. In addition, no need to construct a wall in your back yard! Get on the pull-up bar. Start by pulling yourself up (use assistance if needed)and do sets hanging on as long as you can. Eventually you will increase to a point where you WILL be able to do a pull up. Once you can pull your weight up once on your own, get a partner to spot you and assist you in doing repititions. You can ALL do this! Go to a gym and don't be too proud to ask for help. Some time with a personal trainer is well worth the career!


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## Tackleberry22

The T&G is beating this topic into the ground. I for one am getting fed up with the "woe is me" story. I agree with chief801. The battlelines have been drawn. However, I have this funny feeling that Civil Service will change the test. Hey, we wouldn't want to disappoint people by not holding up to our standard as being the most liberal and chaotic state in the Union.

I think a topic is being overlooked here by the media. There is a reason why women are not turning out in droves to take police tests. Lets look at some facts. 1) The days and hours worked are all over the place 2) Its a dangerous job, 3) Chance of being shot at, stabbed, and getting HIV from an STD infested druggie, 4) We deal with the scum of the earth most of the time and see very graphic things and 5) its VERY STRESSFUL. 
*The average woman would prefer* to have a cushy M-F, 9 to 5 job; that is not very stressful or dangerous and make a lot of money. *The average man* would also make the same preference. Quiet contrary from what a women police officer would be doing. Well, at least would have to wait a few years before getting onto a day or afternoon shift. Being a PO is a hard life and they overlook that aspect. L.E is not meant for everyone or for the faint of heart.


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## bbelichick

Tackleberry22 said:


> *The average woman would prefer* to have a cushy M-F, 9 to 5 job; that is not very stressful or dangerous and make a lot of money.


And as HousingCop pointed out, many Women even find these jobs while on a Police Department.


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## SinePari

I wonder if there is proof that females are better at written exams than men. I mean, when it comes to studying and taking tests, I am one lazy bastard...I hate it. But, I bought those study guides, practiced, and screwed up on real exams...until I finally got it right.

That being said, I should've told those depts that the written tests weren't fair. Maybe they could've given me an Etch-A-Sketch or something to make it equal.


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## kttref

Yeah I worked a 9-5 and HATED it. I couldn't sit behind a desk all day....but I suppose I'm not average...I'm above-average!

Also, I suck at written exams...so horrible!!! I don't know how I ever passed!







Lastly...If you want it, you'll do it. Plain and simple. It doesn't matter who you are, if you want it bad enough you'll prepare yourself enough. 

One of the tests at my academy was an obstacle course (we use Cooper for entrance/exit PATs). We had a 4ft wall and a 6ft wall. I'm 5'3"...I practiced once. No problem. YOU WANT IT, YOU'LL DO IT. Don't forget that.


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