# Off-Duty Officer Survival



## kwflatbed

Survival is a 24-Hour a day mission










Kevin Davis

Carry enough gun. Full-sized Kimber SIS pistol in high ride strong-side holster conceals well under loose fitting shirt.









Kevin Davis

Author's off-duty pelvic pack contains Glock 19, spare mag, mini-flashlight and flexcuff.

*KEVIN DAVIS*
*Tactical Survival Contributor *

Whether you work eight, ten, or twelve hour shifts you're off-duty more than on. For a variety of reasons you should avoid becoming involved in incidents off-duty. Firearms and tactics trainer Massad Ayoob has pointed out that on duty you have: body armor, a full-size duty pistol with two spare magazines and possibly a back-up gun, access to a shotgun or patrol carbine, and a partner or the ability to call on the radio for assistance. Off-duty it is quite possibly just you and whatever off-duty firearm/ammunition you're carrying on your person. You probably have a cell phone but certainly not the quick response communication that a radio affords. 
One of my mentors in the law enforcement survival training arena is retired Detroit P.D. Sgt. Evan Marshall. I always read Evan's Street Smarts columns in the magazine _Combat Handguns_ (going back to the early 1980s). To me, Evan, who had his share of armed encounters while working as a Motor City copper, always had a way of making tactics and survival concepts simple. Evan was always armed off-duty and it paid off for him on more than one occasion. Several incidents that I remember Sgt. Marshall relating while off-duty had nothing to do with work as a police officer but were with subjects that either attempted to assault or attack him while he was in street clothes. Evan would always caution against becoming involved in off-duty encounters whenever possible. He recommended that you be the best witness and call it in for the on duty troops to handle. That advice holds true today as well but you should be as ready off-duty as on to thwart any attempt to attack you.

Full Article: http://www.officer.com/web/online/Operations-and-Tactics/Off-Duty-Officer-Survival/3$43427


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## Killjoy

Nothing screams "cop" like a flat dark earth fanny pack, worn by a guy with a shaved head. Also is "pelvic pack" the non-gay way to refer to your gay fanny pack? European man-bag?

What do want to bet he walks around in 5.11 pants, bates combat boots, Sig-tac vest, topped off with a blackhawk baseball cap?

Sorry to make fun, I just get a little annoyed with those in the firearms training field who recommend guns like all-steel, full-size 1911's as ideal off-duty guns. The gun weighs more than 40 ounces, which is about 6 ounces heavier than my Sig 226 duty pistol! A Glock 26 or Kahr PM9 weighs less than half and are far easier and more practical to carry. A S&W 340PD in .357 weighs about a quarter of what the Kimber SIS 1911 weighs! If you tell a cop he has to carry some kind of giant super gun off-duty,_ he simply won't do it_. While handling, accuracy and stopping power are all considerations, convenience of carry has to rank very high as well.

Get a reasonable carry gun, in decent caliber, like .38, 9mm, .40, or .45. Take that money you will save not buying a $1200.00 Kimber SIS and buy a decent holster, and a spare magazine or speed-strips. Use some more of that extra money to get yourself some practice ammo and go to the range to practice. Low-profile is the key to efficient off-duty carry; don't wear police T-shirts, "tactical" clothing or police ball caps. Items like these draw attention to yourself and attention is the last thing you want. One of the advantages of plainclothes carry is the ability to chose when and where you want to skin your smoke-wagon and reveal yourself, _or not to do it all, _if the situation warrants it.

Sometimes I feel that those in the firearms training biz are more interested in "tacti-cool" than practical.


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## pahapoika

talked to a gun dealer today and i believe he mentioned this Massad Ayoob has never been in a gun fight.

not that i have either , but would like advice from someone that has been there ,done that. i'm sure the big .45 is nice , but who wants to carry that thing ?


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## screamineagle

my glock 27 is just fine thank you very much.


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## ddp335

Ruger P345 nice slim and light .45. Easy to conceal and still have the stopping power


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## MCADPD24

I carry the SW sigma,. I think it's all about the holster; to try to conceal the weapon better, I have a inside the pants holster. Strap my weapon on, throw on a t shirt and no one knows that I am carrying.


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## 7costanza

> Nothing screams "cop" like a flat dark earth fanny pack, worn by a guy with a shaved head. Also is "pelvic pack" the non-gay way to refer to your gay fanny pack? European man-bag?
> 
> What do want to bet he walks around in 5.11 pants, bates combat boots, Sig-tac vest, topped off with a blackhawk baseball cap?
> 
> Sorry to make fun, I just get a little annoyed with those in the firearms training field who recommend guns like all-steel, full-size 1911's as ideal off-duty guns. The gun weighs more than 40 ounces, which is about 6 ounces heavier than my Sig 226 duty pistol! A Glock 26 or Kahr PM9 weighs less than half and are far easier and more practical to carry. A S&W 340PD in .357 weighs about a quarter of what the Kimber SIS 1911 weighs! If you tell a cop he has to carry some kind of giant super gun off-duty,_ he simply won't do it_. While handling, accuracy and stopping power are all considerations, convenience of carry has to rank very high as well.
> 
> Get a reasonable carry gun, in decent caliber, like .38, 9mm, .40, or .45. Take that money you will save not buying a $1200.00 Kimber SIS and buy a decent holster, and a spare magazine or speed-strips. Use some more of that extra money to get yourself some practice ammo and go to the range to practice. Low-profile is the key to efficient off-duty carry; don't wear police T-shirts, "tactical" clothing or police ball caps. Items like these draw attention to yourself and attention is the last thing you want. One of the advantages of plainclothes carry is the ability to chose when and where you want to skin your smoke-wagon and reveal yourself, _or not to do it all, _if the situation warrants it.
> 
> Sometimes I feel that those in the firearms training biz are more interested in "tacti-cool" than practical.


Another dead on post by KJ...I was going to add a thanks but hadnt realized I did on the original post.


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## militia_man

I carry a little 9mm Walther P99C. It is small enough to drop just drop into a pocket as the long as the pants or shorts are loose fitting enough. I also carry it in a small leather holster on my belt and conceal it under my shirt. I carry off-duty about 90% of the time.


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## RodneyFarva

I carry my HK usp compact 40 in a behind the belt and pants holster, its a little bulkie but nothing a wind breaker cant hide.


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## fra444

I was at the Wrenthem Outlets with Stbbrn this past summer. When I saw a male wearing a yellow tank top that should have been loose on a horse! The top was tight on this guy and all you could see on his right side was GUN BULGE! I pointed him out to Stbbrn and we both had a chuckle. It was more than obvious he was an off duty cop. 
I continued walking around with my Taurus Ultra Lite 38. Its small and lite. You almost forget its there, and no one else knows its there.


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## 7costanza

I was at the Wrentham Outlets this past summer, I had just left the gym and was feeling pretty huge so I dawned my favorite Big Bird yellow tank top, it looks good on me, a bit tight but the ladies love it. So I see this guy staring at my " gun bulge " then he taps his girlfriend and points out my " bulge "..cute broad seemed a bit stubborn though. They started laughing and walked away, I know they are propably still thinking about me today.


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## fra444

LMAO at both of you!!!!

7 The gun bulge was to the side of a very large BEER BELLY! LMAO!! Thats F-ING funny as hell!!!


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## HousingCop

pahapoika said:


> talked to a gun dealer today and i believe he mentioned this Massad Ayoob has never been in a gun fight.
> not that i have either , but would like advice from someone that has been there ,done that. i'm sure the big .45 is nice , but who wants to carry that thing ?


*He showed up at an indoor range I was at once with 4 guns, 5 knives, 2 flashlights, and a bazooka. He wouldn't show us where he had hidden the bazooka though. *


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## ddp335

I carry mine right in the fupa...


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## rg1283

If I was an off duty officer I would carry the following:

Badge/ID

Firearm (preferably a smaller version of what you department carries, example a compact M&P .45 or whatever your comfortable with) Utilize the type of holster that gives your weapon good retention, none of this cheap uncle mikes crap.

Handcuffs/Spare magazine










OC, since it is in the continuum of force.

CPR Mask/Latex Gloves

Flashlight (Small one), Simon Mall issue AA Maglight with LED works fine for this.

Leatherman

2-Way radio if your going locally and your department issues you one.

Thats it.

Or if your too lazy (like I am) I would carry the handgun, cuffs and a can of OC. Badge/ID

In my opinion the weapon you are carrying you should have some familiarity with it. Go to the range and practice with it. Imagine reaching for your gun off duty and accidentally hitting the mag release, because it is located in a different spot then your duty handgun.


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## Killjoy

> If I was an off duty officer I would carry the following:
> 
> Badge/ID
> 
> Firearm (preferably a smaller version of what you department carries, example a compact M&P .45 or whatever your comfortable with) Utilize the type of holster that gives your weapon good retention, none of this cheap uncle mikes crap.
> 
> Handcuffs/Spare magazine
> 
> OC, since it is in the continuum of force.
> 
> CPR Mask/Latex Gloves
> 
> Flashlight (Small one), Simon Mall issue AA Maglight with LED works fine for this.
> 
> Leatherman
> 
> 2-Way radio if your going locally and your department issues you one.
> 
> Thats it.


You would have to wear a Batman belt to carry that much gear around. Why not just cut out the middle man, put on your vest and drive your cruiser off-duty? 

I carry my badge, gun, spare mag and flashlight. I don't carry any cuffs or "lesser" use of force equipment, because, quite frankly, unless its a life-or-death situation, _I'm not getting involved. _ Contrary to popular belief most cops do not want to do anything off duty more important then hang out with their families and maybe eat a nice meal at the Olive Garden. Police work can stay at work.


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## MCADPD24

rg1283 said:


> If I was an off duty officer I would carry the following:
> 
> Badge/ID
> 
> Firearm (preferably a smaller version of what you department carries, example a compact M&P .45 or whatever your comfortable with) Utilize the type of holster that gives your weapon good retention, none of this cheap uncle mikes crap.
> 
> Handcuffs/Spare magazine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> OC, since it is in the continuum of force.
> 
> CPR Mask/Latex Gloves
> 
> Flashlight (Small one), Simon Mall issue AA Maglight with LED works fine for this.
> 
> Leatherman
> 
> 2-Way radio if your going locally and your department issues you one.
> 
> Thats it.
> 
> Or if your too lazy (like I am) I would carry the handgun, cuffs and a can of OC. Badge/ID
> 
> In my opinion the weapon you are carrying you should have some familiarity with it. Go to the range and practice with it. Imagine reaching for your gun off duty and accidentally hitting the mag release, because it is located in a different spot then your duty handgun.


What the hell do you need all that crap for man. The only way you would see me do something off duty is if someone was getting badly hurt and can't defend themselves. Other than that, I just mind my own business and nothing will happen to you. Furthermore, when Im off duty I drink, therefor, I dont carry. All I carry is my badge and ID, in my wallet and I dont advertise that I am LE.


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## rg1283

Its more of a joke. Hence the Simon Mall AA maglite comment.

Mace, gun and badge I think is fair enough.


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## PatrolDB

MCADPD24 said:


> What the hell do you need all that crap for man. The only way you would see me do something off duty is if someone was getting badly hurt and can't defend themselves. Other than that, I just mind my own business and nothing will happen to you. Furthermore, when Im off duty I drink, therefor, I dont carry. All I carry is my badge and ID, in my wallet and I dont advertise that I am LE.


It depends where you work. Here, 90% of us carry off duty. It's not about minding your own business. It's about that one idiot you locked up 3 years ago that's gonna recognize your face without the badge while your out with your wife and kids and he gets a hard-on for attacking you and your family.

That being said... taurus 850 cia does the trick...


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## lbyeah

screamineagle said:


> my glock 27 is just fine thank you very much.


 thats an awesome photo


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## Cartman

Is this one too small? Seecamp.32. 6+1, fits in your pocket.


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## Duff112

Cartman said:


> Is this one too small? Seecamp.32. 6+1, fits in your pocket.


My concern about a calibre .32 and under is stopping power, especially since we live and work in cold weather climates (Heavy clothing penetration) Thats why I carry the Glock 27 .40, although I do own a Beretta Bobcat .25 (It stays in the station mostly)


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## OfficerObie59

rg1283 said:


> In my opinion the weapon you are carrying you should have some familiarity with it. Go to the range and practice with it. Imagine reaching for your gun off duty and accidentally hitting the mag release, because it is located in a different spot then your duty handgun.


While I certainly don't think you need all that crap, practice is a must. Also, one needs to practice drawing from a concealed possition which is completely different than when your exposed gun is in your duty holster. I find it easier to draw with an unbuttoned oxford type shirt--as I was tought at PSD school when you wear a jacket, run your hand straight down your sternum to your navel, and then move your arm at the right angle to your holster, or place your hanb on your thiegh and push your shirt up on top of the firearm, then draw. It sounds so simple, but if it's not practiced, the extra second you spend fumbling around can be crucial.


Duff112 said:


> Thats why I carry the Glock 27 .40,





screamineagle said:


> my glock 27 is just fine thank you very much.












I'm no glock goober, but I like the combination of concealability, capacity, and stopping power with the .40. Not preaching it, but a personal preference.


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## Duff112

OB-

Not only that with regards to the Glock 27 but you add Trijicon night sights and an extender magazine bottom adding a few rounds/makes the 27 easier to handle you have a formidable weapon in your hands.


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## OfficerObie59

Mine's already got the Trijicons, but I'm currently looking around for the pinky entenders. I'd rather get new mags that alter my stock ones, but that's quite a challenge in this state. I don't have much of an issue controlling it as it is, but the extened grips couldn't hurt.


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## Duff112

OfficerObie59 said:


> Mine's already got the Trijicons, but I'm currently looking around for the pinky entenders. I'd rather get new mags that alter my stock ones, but that's quite a challenge in this state. I don't have much of an issue controlling it as it is, but the extened grips couldn't hurt.


 Unfortunately I have "massive" man hands so the extender is the only option... You know what they say: big hands, big.....


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## OfficerObie59

Duff112 said:


> You know what they say: big hands, big.....


...gloves? Sorry OJ, Isotoners are outta style. j/k


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## fra444

Duff112 said:


> You know what they say: big hands, big.....


Feet?

I like this game!


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## Duff112

fra444 said:


> Feet?
> 
> I like this game!


I was trying to insinuate that I was well endowed but alas.... as many of you are PO's and are quite able to deduce by my screen name that I am Irish... well..... I still know how to use it. And quite effectively.


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## fra444

Are you now going with the motion of the ocean theory?




Ya! I've used that!


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## JMody

I personally like the Glock 29, Glock 32, and also the Sig P229. 

I love the stopping power of the .357sig.


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## woodstone432

7costanza said:


> I was at the Wrentham Outlets this past summer, I had just left the gym and was feeling pretty huge so I dawned my favorite Big Bird yellow tank top, it looks good on me, a bit tight but the ladies love it. So I see this guy staring at my " gun bulge " then he taps his girlfriend and points out my " bulge "..cute broad seemed a bit stubborn though. They started laughing and walked away, I know they are propably still thinking about me today.


I must be missing something here, he looked first and you appreciated it ???????


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## 7costanza

> I must be missing something


It was a joke...humor, sarcasm..funny ha ha.


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## Mattyc

7costanza said:


> It was a joke...humor, sarcasm..funny ha ha.


*Like this*


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## fra444

7costanza said:


> It was a joke...humor, sarcasm..funny ha ha.


 Damn and I thought you ment every word you said 7!


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## redtargetarea

Save your money on the nights sights, in a fire fight or split second situation you will not see them anyway. If your department puts them on for you go for it, but I would not spend my own money for them. The 27 is an outstanding gun, gotta have the pinky extender.


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## Goose

redtargetarea said:


> Save your money on the nights sights, in a fire fight or split second situation you will not see them anyway. If your department puts them on for you go for it, but I would not spend my own money for them. The 27 is an outstanding gun, gotta have the pinky extender.


Here's my opinion:

Night sights are a hell of a lot cheaper than a human life if you're shooting in the dark at someone or something and also a hell of a lot cheaper than a lawyer defending you against a manslaughter charge because you couldn't see your sights. In my opinion, a gun without night sights is like a flashlight without a good battery in it.

Train, train, and train again. Yes, in certain situations you may not refer to the sights...but night sights will certainly help if you need a sight picture.


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## redtargetarea

I have been to a few point shooting classes at S/W academy with Mike Rayburn, and at first I was skeptical, but after shooting for two days with my sights taped over with electrical tape, I became a believer. Varying distances, low light, no light. The fact that the human eye can not focus on two different things at different distances, says to me that in stress you will focus on the threat beyond you and will not be able to see your sights. I preached sight picture for many years, but I have started importing point shooting, because I really believe you will not see your sights in a stressful situation.


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## Killjoy

> The fact that the human eye can not focus on two different things at different distances, says to me that in stress you will focus on the threat beyond you and will not be able to see your sights. I preached sight picture for many years, but I have started importing point shooting, because I really believe you will not see your sights in a stressful situation.


That is the very essence of our department's "New Paradigm" system. Read Rex Applegate's and Michael Janich's work _Bullseye's Don't Shoot Back_.


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## justanotherparatrooper

I carry a G27 as well but for a spare magazine I use one from my 23...a few more rounds and its a 'built in pinky extender'


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